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leebigeztx
03-03-2009, 12:30 AM
The idea of jokers and pressure packages have really taken off in recent years. Since defenders can't lay a hand on receivers down the field, defensive coaches are dialing up the pressure at a high rate. Ravens, Steelers, Philly, Giants, Cardinals are just to name a few. A few of the teams are 3-4 so the pressure comes from the edges mostly, but teams like philly and ny giants do it with the zone dogs and attacking protections. Both are effective, but how can houston emulate the ideas and schemes that will allow them more consistent pressure.

Bush is a student of ryan,jim johnson, and even pendergras. He understand pressures and attacking protections of the offense. Its hard to squeeze blood from a grapefruit, but the texans do have some options.

The joker. The joker is a guy that can rush effectively from a 2 or 3 point stand. Those jokers can can sugar the concept of what they want to do. Arizona had Labboy. Berry, Smith, Dansby to name a few. That's how they created pressure and confusion with the offensive line. The o-line didn't know who was coming because all of those guys were standing up, then at the last minute they would have guys git in a 3pt stance and come after the qb.

Another way is the zone dog/5 man pressure scheme. To run this, your slb has to be a natural pass rusher. The texans blitzed more than what people gave them credit for last year, but diles nor greenwood couldn't get to the qb. Peterson, Gocong, and Kiwi are guys who made the transformation to slb so when its 3rd and long or whent the dc dial up a pressure front, they can beat a back or tight end.

Which brings me to this, I doubt they will sign enough players to have the joker packages, but the zone dog/5 man pressure could be attained easier. I think a guy that fits that slb that can rush the passer in Conner Barwin from Univ of Cincy. He's a ex te so he undestands the route tree and coverage. His 1st yr as a de tis season he had 11 sacks and 16 tackles for loss. He's big and can run so he should be able to matchup with te's. He's also a guy that if the texans want to run a 3-4 look, he should be able to lineup olb on the te side,diles and ryans inside and adibi on the weakside with mario and smith playing 5 technique and okoye on the nose slanting the front. I would like to see the texans also add some of those vets that can be 3rd guys like spicer,berry or even a guy like Taylor, but he'll probably end up in new england.

Consistent pressure other than mario is a crucial needs for this team to take the next step. They need to figure if the jim johnson way is the best or the clancy perdergras way with jokers is. Either way, both are effective, but the texans needs to get personel that can do it.

Malloy
03-03-2009, 02:42 AM
Interesting post, thanks!

nero THE zero
03-03-2009, 06:46 AM
Why don't you think we have the personnel to run the "joker" stuff?

I know they have experimented with Mario in a 2 point stance. They have also done it with Nading. Could you elaborate on the package and what personnel is needed exactly to run it?

The Pencil Neck
03-03-2009, 08:21 AM
This is a lot of what we were doing under Smith. Some DL in 2 point stances. DL dropping back into coverage while bringing linebackers or corners. With Adibi on the field, it worked a bit better because he had the speed. With Barber on the field, it worked a bit better than with Ferguson or Demps.

But the problem with Smith is that he didn't implement it well. He implemented the concepts but he didn't disguise well enough. He didn't overload well enough; when our guys overloaded, they got in each other's way and ended up blocking each other.

We even shifted from a 4-3 to a 3-4 at times.

Hopefully, Bush will scheme better than Smith... and have better players to work with.

mussop
03-03-2009, 08:55 AM
This is a lot of what we were doing under Smith. Some DL in 2 point stances. DL dropping back into coverage while bringing linebackers or corners. With Adibi on the field, it worked a bit better because he had the speed. With Barber on the field, it worked a bit better than with Ferguson or Demps.

But the problem with Smith is that he didn't implement it well. He implemented the concepts but he didn't disguise well enough. He didn't overload well enough; when our guys overloaded, they got in each other's way and ended up blocking each other.

We even shifted from a 4-3 to a 3-4 at times.

Hopefully, Bush will scheme better than Smith... and have better players to work with.

So true!!!!

spurstexanstros
03-03-2009, 09:39 AM
First off what is this blitz thing you refer to?

Joker packages? wth????
I dont care what the heck they do back there...as long as they can freaking STOP SOMEONE ON THIRD DOWN. They can have the POPE package for all I care. Heck it could work if the Pope was back there excommunicating the recievers if they caught the ball...maybe he can bless Petey and make him better...... he does work miracles right?????

Bottom line stop teams on third down...and in some cases stop fat qbs from geting 4th and 8's and the Texans may win some games next year.

TimeKiller
03-03-2009, 10:22 AM
I think Smith got into crazy schemes when they went dime or nickel packages, right? Cuz...from my very untrained eye...the base 4-3 was just it's normal sucktacular self for the most part.

The Pencil Neck
03-03-2009, 11:12 AM
I think Smith got into crazy schemes when they went dime or nickel packages, right? Cuz...from my very untrained eye...the base 4-3 was just it's normal sucktacular self for the most part.

That's a good point. I thought they were doing them from the base package as well but it could have just been from the nickel and dime packages. I'll have to go back and look at a couple of games.

leebigeztx
03-03-2009, 11:41 AM
Blitzing with guys who don't know how to get to the qb is different than blitzing guys that do. I saw a lot more blitzes than what people thought, but the blitzer was getting caught in the wash because of the poor angle taken. Diles is a slb, but he's never played with his hand in the dirt. He's also not good in coverage which opens windows.

Back to the jokers. Look at a team like NE. Brusci, Thomas, Vrabel, and even Colvin were all 4-3 rush ends in college. During their prime, u didn't know who was coming and sice they were use to dip and rip or just beating linemen. Now in the 4-3 front, the joker guy should be the slb for 5 man pressures. Shaun Thompson is a joker on the texans. That slb has to be good enough in coverage so u don't have to sub him out, but also a good enough rusher that he can beat a te or half a tackle. Kiwinueka,peterson, and gocong are the jokers in 4-3. If the texans can add a joker type either via the draft or free agency, I could actualy see them generating a lot of presure on passing downs. I could actually see a 3-4 1 gap scheme on 3rd downs. Mario,adibi,and ryans on the right side, bullman,robinson,or okam on the nose, okoye, barwin or thoompson and smith on the left side. Now they can 5 or 6 man pressure and 4 deep in the secondary. Even in that scenerio, they can flex baack to thhe 4-3. Look at how many pass rushers the giants can have on the field at once.

TimeKiller
03-03-2009, 12:20 PM
That's a good point. I thought they were doing them from the base package as well but it could have just been from the nickel and dime packages. I'll have to go back and look at a couple of games.

Hehehe...maybe they were just too hidden?!? I'm not really an x and o type, just more observant than the usual armchair guys so as much as I would like to know the real ins and outs...I just don't. Maybe the nickel/dime stuff was just too obvious?

Polo
03-03-2009, 12:28 PM
Diles is actually pretty good in covereage.

BSofA04
03-03-2009, 04:18 PM
Diles is actually pretty good in covereage.

Signed,
Peyton Manning

dalemurphy
03-03-2009, 04:42 PM
Diles is actually pretty good in covereage.

I think we're going to see a dramatic difference in the defense as a hole and certainly in our coverage in the middle of the field with the new defensive staff. Thinking back to the Pittsburgh game last season, it was indicative of our problems on defense for years. We were getting good pressure on Rothlisburger all day but he was able to consistently find wide open receivers in the middle of the field. Clearly, it was evident to Rothlisburger and the receivers exactly where the holes in the coverage would be- play after play, and it was easily exploited. Then, the Indy game last year we saw Diles play underneath man coverage on D.Clark and came away with a pick. I realized then that it was the first time I've seen man coverage by our LBs downfield on a TE. It clearly surprised Manning as well.

The point is that Frank Bush will mix up the coverages more and allow for more agressive playmaking by these guys and I think the difference will be clear right away! I realize we won't become a dominate defense overnight but it will be nice to dictate tempo and playcalling in games for once. I bet we double our forced turnovers this season!

whiskeyrbl
03-03-2009, 04:56 PM
Interesting analysis.

TimeKiller
03-03-2009, 05:00 PM
So I think most here generally regard Ryans the best LB on our team, who is 2nd? Diles? I think he's a good player but then there's Adibi who has played pretty well too. I don't know who to call 2 and who to call 3 but it's okay because I think they're both good players. If we got a guy like Matthews or Cushing who plays and rushes well why not try a 3-4 look on passing situations? Mario would still be Mario, it's not like you would do it everytime anyway so he would still be just a big ol' hammer. Cochran, Bulman, Okoye, Robinson could all play the other 2 spots. As long as Dunta is back back (not just back) Bennett still had decent numbers if spotty play, Reeves too and the 3rd round question Molden to answer, E-Willie played well and we'll probably draft another safety to replace Ferguson so the DBs look filled in as well....they should be able to cover for the rush.

I'm seeing less holes and more options on this D.

DBCooper
03-03-2009, 06:02 PM
If we do not make the playoffs this year, theRealJokers package is going to be under some serious pressure.

Rozelle
03-03-2009, 10:36 PM
Arizona's defense also likes to snatch-blitz any offensive player who's asked to check-release out on the snap of the ball. When a running back, tight end or wide receiver is responsible for picking up a blitzer before releasing on a pass route, the Cardinals' jokers often blitz that player and prevent a release. They don't try to beat the blocker to the quarterback but instead "snatch" him, and before you know it, the offense has just two receivers out on patterns.
from Pat Kirwan / NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story?id=09000d5d80e61f3b&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

barrett
03-03-2009, 11:20 PM
I think we're going to see a dramatic difference in the defense as a hole and certainly in our coverage in the middle of the field with the new defensive staff. Thinking back to the Pittsburgh game last season, it was indicative of our problems on defense for years. We were getting good pressure on Rothlisburger all day but he was able to consistently find wide open receivers in the middle of the field. Clearly, it was evident to Rothlisburger and the receivers exactly where the holes in the coverage would be- play after play, and it was easily exploited. Then, the Indy game last year we saw Diles play underneath man coverage on D.Clark and came away with a pick. I realized then that it was the first time I've seen man coverage by our LBs downfield on a TE. It clearly surprised Manning as well.

The point is that Frank Bush will mix up the coverages more and allow for more agressive playmaking by these guys and I think the difference will be clear right away! I realize we won't become a dominate defense overnight but it will be nice to dictate tempo and playcalling in games for once. I bet we double our forced turnovers this season!

I think you need to preface this with the fact that you "hope" this is what will happen. I will remain decidedly cautious until week 1. I'm very hopeful that we will see a substantial change in our defensive philosophy but I will wait and see. Nothing has really changed on our defense other than the DB coach, the Line coach and the D coordinator as well as a SSDE. I hope what you suggest is the case but I've heard the "aggressive" and "attacking" terms to describe our defense before.

I'll wait and see.

steelbtexan
03-04-2009, 12:12 AM
The idea of jokers and pressure packages have really taken off in recent years. Since defenders can't lay a hand on receivers down the field, defensive coaches are dialing up the pressure at a high rate. Ravens, Steelers, Philly, Giants, Cardinals are just to name a few. A few of the teams are 3-4 so the pressure comes from the edges mostly, but teams like philly and ny giants do it with the zone dogs and attacking protections. Both are effective, but how can houston emulate the ideas and schemes that will allow them more consistent pressure.

Bush is a student of ryan,jim johnson, and even pendergras. He understand pressures and attacking protections of the offense. Its hard to squeeze blood from a grapefruit, but the texans do have some options.

The joker. The joker is a guy that can rush effectively from a 2 or 3 point stand. Those jokers can can sugar the concept of what they want to do. Arizona had Labboy. Berry, Smith, Dansby to name a few. That's how they created pressure and confusion with the offensive line. The o-line didn't know who was coming because all of those guys were standing up, then at the last minute they would have guys git in a 3pt stance and come after the qb.

Another way is the zone dog/5 man pressure scheme. To run this, your slb has to be a natural pass rusher. The texans blitzed more than what people gave them credit for last year, but diles nor greenwood couldn't get to the qb. Peterson, Gocong, and Kiwi are guys who made the transformation to slb so when its 3rd and long or whent the dc dial up a pressure front, they can beat a back or tight end.

Which brings me to this, I doubt they will sign enough players to have the joker packages, but the zone dog/5 man pressure could be attained easier. I think a guy that fits that slb that can rush the passer in Conner Barwin from Univ of Cincy. He's a ex te so he undestands the route tree and coverage. His 1st yr as a de tis season he had 11 sacks and 16 tackles for loss. He's big and can run so he should be able to matchup with te's. He's also a guy that if the texans want to run a 3-4 look, he should be able to lineup olb on the te side,diles and ryans inside and adibi on the weakside with mario and smith playing 5 technique and okoye on the nose slanting the front. I would like to see the texans also add some of those vets that can be 3rd guys like spicer,berry or even a guy like Taylor, but he'll probably end up in new england.

Consistent pressure other than mario is a crucial needs for this team to take the next step. They need to figure if the jim johnson way is the best or the clancy perdergras way with jokers is. Either way, both are effective, but the texans needs to get personel that can do it.

Great post

Smithiak are going to have to add the all-around SAM & another pass rusher to play this type of defense.

Barwin is the no.1 SAM on my board for the reasons you stated. Ithnk we can trade down to about 20-25 & get him, but I think he's a value @ 15.

In my dream senario we would draft
RD1 Barwin
RD2 S.Smith
RD3 Sidbury pass rusher with long arms ran a 4.64 40, he would allow us to have a DL that looks like this MW, AO, A. Smith & Sidbury plus have the versatility @ LB with Barwin, Adibi & DR to either blitz or are good in coverage. I would do whatever it took to add these 3 players including trading up if I had to, they are perfect for the defense that Bush wants to play. It would allow the Texans to play the kind of defense the Cardinals played last year.

threetoedpete
03-04-2009, 01:03 AM
I think we're going to see a dramatic difference in the defense as a hole and certainly in our coverage in the middle of the field with the new defensive staff. Thinking back to the Pittsburgh game last season, it was indicative of our problems on defense for years. We were getting good pressure on Rothlisburger all day but he was able to consistently find wide open receivers in the middle of the field. Clearly, it was evident to Rothlisburger and the receivers exactly where the holes in the coverage would be- play after play, and it was easily exploited. Then, the Indy game last year we saw Diles play underneath man coverage on D.Clark and came away with a pick. I realized then that it was the first time I've seen man coverage by our LBs downfield on a TE. It clearly surprised Manning as well.

The point is that Frank Bush will mix up the coverages more and allow for more agressive playmaking by these guys and I think the difference will be clear right away! I realize we won't become a dominate defense overnight but it will be nice to dictate tempo and playcalling in games for once. I bet we double our forced turnovers this season!

The only things wrong with the Pittsburg game was Hines Ward cut our young DBs to pieces. Dick Lebeau was reading our mail and filling the route tree with his line backers. And finally on a team with a supect o-line....who was expossed through out the year....we got no pressure. I think a lot is going to depend on how much we blitz. Especailly if were waiting on pass rushers untill the second day of the draft.

dalemurphy
03-04-2009, 01:47 AM
The only things wrong with the Pittsburg game was Hines Ward cut our young DBs to pieces. Dick Lebeau was reading our mail and filling the route tree with his line backers. And finally on a team with a supect o-line....who was expossed through out the year....we got no pressure. I think a lot is going to depend on how much we blitz. Especailly if were waiting on pass rushers untill the second day of the draft.

I really can't place the blame on the CBs when a QB takes a 5 step drop and immediate unloads the ball under pressure to a wide open WR who simply curled up 10 yards deep out of the slot. To me, that signals either that they've been horribly coached or that the Steelers were exploiting a hole in the defense- and it was there every freakin' pass play. The Steeler game is simply the best example I can recall of a very weak pass defense in the middle of the field throughout Richard Smith's glorious tenure.

dalemurphy
03-04-2009, 01:53 AM
I think you need to preface this with the fact that you "hope" this is what will happen. I will remain decidedly cautious until week 1. I'm very hopeful that we will see a substantial change in our defensive philosophy but I will wait and see. Nothing has really changed on our defense other than the DB coach, the Line coach and the D coordinator as well as a SSDE. I hope what you suggest is the case but I've heard the "aggressive" and "attacking" terms to describe our defense before.

I'll wait and see.



First, Barrett, your idea of "nothing" is pretty funny!

Second, for anyone unsure, I am a Texan fan so I hope good things happen to the Texans and bad things don't. So, when reading my posts, Barrett, please just assume the "hope" when it pertains to the Texans improving and/or winning football games. Finally, I don't think hoping and thinking are mutally exclusive. And, in this case, I think and hope the Texans defense will look quite different due to the miniscual changes on the defensive staff: new Defensive coordiator, new DL coach, new secondary coach, and a new starting DE.

threetoedpete
03-04-2009, 02:03 AM
I really can't place the blame on the CBs when a QB takes a 5 step drop and immediate unloads the ball under pressure to a wide open WR who simply curled up 10 yards deep out of the slot. To me, that signals either that they've been horribly coached or that the Steelers were exploiting a hole in the defense- and it was there every freakin' pass play. The Steeler game is simply the best example I can recall of a very weak pass defense in the middle of the field throughout Richard Smith's glorious tenure.


Oh Brother. I'll have to go count up the number of times now Hines Ward Tangle footed our DBs....the count will be considerale. I've heard of Homer but you take the cake. There's a point where glass half full becomes comical...you just crossed that point.

dalemurphy
03-04-2009, 02:13 AM
Oh Brother. I'll have to go count up the number of times now Hines Ward Tangle footed our DBs....the count will be considerale. I've heard of Homer but you take the cake. There's a point where glass half full becomes comical...you just crossed that point.

Why am I a homer for criticising the coaching staff? I'm not yelling about Pittsburgh cheating, after all. And, this isn't a newly concocted theory of mine to blame coaches that are no longer here. I started a thread after the Jacksonville game and made this very point.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1011668#post1011668

Ugggghh! I had forgotten that we had Jacksonville 4th and 8 on their last drive in the 4th quarter. Man, that game was ours to win.

thoughts:

1. Both Okoye and Robinson did a good job collapsing the pocket most of the day.

2. What's amazing to me is how quickly receivers are open when we drop 7 men. This must be a result of scheme, LBs, and/or safeties not doing their jobs most of the time.
3. Once again, Mario was excellent.

4. Duane Brown was absolutely awesome! He never received help. He picked up blitzes, once even passing the DE to the guard while he came off and got the blitzing CB and drove him out of the play. On Slaton's long run of 13, he made a diving cut block on the Lb to free up the second half of that run.

5. The combination of Briesel and Meyers simply aren't getting the job done in the run or pass game.

6. Bentley should be on the field instead of Diles or Greenwood.

7. Right now Reeves is our best CB.

leebigeztx
03-04-2009, 02:59 AM
Those that think receiver getting open is entirely rthe db's fault is wrong also. Lb's that understand routes and are smart, squeezes the windows tighter. Those lbs have to recognize the routes as much as cb to know where to drop in their zone. That's why the best pass defenses in the league last year had very good lb play. Also it seems like the message wasn't communicated properly to the db's. If you press coverage and blitz, you can't let a guy inside on a slant. If you have to half shade inside and force the guy to the sideline, that's what yo do. Also, if the lbs know the cb is going to release the wr inside, its his job to get proper depth on his drop.

Back to the topic, I just think you have to go get the qb. Even if you don't sack him, you have to knock him down, harass and fluster the guy. Pressure leads to picks and coverage leads to sacks. That's why giants and pitts can get by with average talent on the corners. Mario can get 12 sacks every year, but if the team winds up with 30, its really wasting his talents. Mario gets the protecion turned toward him means someone else needs to win one on one battles. I think okoye will bounce back with 5-8 sacks, smith with get 7 also. Now they need to find 20 sacks from the other players.

I really like Barwin as a joker/slb. He's movng up the boards because he got by on pure talent. If they coach this guy up, he could turn out to be a great player on the strong side eventhough slb are becoming extinc. The nickel back plays over 60% of the snaps. With the Y- flex tèthe slb better be able to cover. I look at Kiwi of NY,Gocong of philly, and peterson of seahawks as those slb/joker types.

barrett
03-04-2009, 03:50 AM
First, Barrett, your idea of "nothing" is pretty funny!

Second, for anyone unsure, I am a Texan fan so I hope good things happen to the Texans and bad things don't. So, when reading my posts, Barrett, please just assume the "hope" when it pertains to the Texans improving and/or winning football games. Finally, I don't think hoping and thinking are mutally exclusive. And, in this case, I think and hope the Texans defense will look quite different due to the miniscual changes on the defensive staff: new Defensive coordiator, new DL coach, new secondary coach, and a new starting DE.

I'm saying there is alot to "wait and see". It will be different. I hope it will be better. I don't know how different, or how much better.

pbat488
03-04-2009, 05:11 AM
Great post

Smithiak are going to have to add the all-around SAM & another pass rusher to play this type of defense.

Barwin is the no.1 SAM on my board for the reasons you stated. Ithnk we can trade down to about 20-25 & get him, but I think he's a value @ 15.

In my dream senario we would draft
RD1 Barwin
RD2 S.Smith
RD3 Sidbury pass rusher with long arms ran a 4.64 40, he would allow us to have a DL that looks like this MW, AO, A. Smith & Sidbury plus have the versatility @ LB with Barwin, Adibi & DR to either blitz or are good in coverage. I would do whatever it took to add these 3 players including trading up if I had to, they are perfect for the defense that Bush wants to play. It would allow the Texans to play the kind of defense the Cardinals played last year.

I like the picks you have put forth, but I question why you would want to fashion our defense after a team that ended up last season 19th in yards allowed and 28th in scoring.

bah007
03-04-2009, 08:50 AM
Those that think receiver getting open is entirely rthe db's fault is wrong also. Lb's that understand routes and are smart, squeezes the windows tighter. Those lbs have to recognize the routes as much as cb to know where to drop in their zone. That's why the best pass defenses in the league last year had very good lb play. Also it seems like the message wasn't communicated properly to the db's. If you press coverage and blitz, you can't let a guy inside on a slant. If you have to half shade inside and force the guy to the sideline, that's what yo do. Also, if the lbs know the cb is going to release the wr inside, its his job to get proper depth on his drop.

Back to the topic, I just think you have to go get the qb. Even if you don't sack him, you have to knock him down, harass and fluster the guy. Pressure leads to picks and coverage leads to sacks. That's why giants and pitts can get by with average talent on the corners. Mario can get 12 sacks every year, but if the team winds up with 30, its really wasting his talents. Mario gets the protecion turned toward him means someone else needs to win one on one battles. I think okoye will bounce back with 5-8 sacks, smith with get 7 also. Now they need to find 20 sacks from the other players.

I really like Barwin as a joker/slb. He's movng up the boards because he got by on pure talent. If they coach this guy up, he could turn out to be a great player on the strong side eventhough slb are becoming extinc. The nickel back plays over 60% of the snaps. With the Y- flex tèthe slb better be able to cover. I look at Kiwi of NY,Gocong of philly, and peterson of seahawks as those slb/joker types.

I like the idea of using a Joker.

In this class, I see English and Barwin as guys who could be successful at it.

But if this is something that we are really going to consider then I am getting goosebumps about getting Sergio Kindle in the 1st round next year. He is the perfect player for the Joker position.

awtysst
04-26-2009, 09:53 AM
The idea of jokers and pressure packages have really taken off in recent years. Since defenders can't lay a hand on receivers down the field, defensive coaches are dialing up the pressure at a high rate. Ravens, Steelers, Philly, Giants, Cardinals are just to name a few. A few of the teams are 3-4 so the pressure comes from the edges mostly, but teams like philly and ny giants do it with the zone dogs and attacking protections. Both are effective, but how can houston emulate the ideas and schemes that will allow them more consistent pressure.

Bush is a student of ryan,jim johnson, and even pendergras. He understand pressures and attacking protections of the offense. Its hard to squeeze blood from a grapefruit, but the texans do have some options.

The joker. The joker is a guy that can rush effectively from a 2 or 3 point stand. Those jokers can can sugar the concept of what they want to do. Arizona had Labboy. Berry, Smith, Dansby to name a few. That's how they created pressure and confusion with the offensive line. The o-line didn't know who was coming because all of those guys were standing up, then at the last minute they would have guys git in a 3pt stance and come after the qb.

Another way is the zone dog/5 man pressure scheme. To run this, your slb has to be a natural pass rusher. The texans blitzed more than what people gave them credit for last year, but diles nor greenwood couldn't get to the qb. Peterson, Gocong, and Kiwi are guys who made the transformation to slb so when its 3rd and long or whent the dc dial up a pressure front, they can beat a back or tight end.

Which brings me to this, I doubt they will sign enough players to have the joker packages, but the zone dog/5 man pressure could be attained easier. I think a guy that fits that slb that can rush the passer in Conner Barwin from Univ of Cincy. He's a ex te so he undestands the route tree and coverage. His 1st yr as a de tis season he had 11 sacks and 16 tackles for loss. He's big and can run so he should be able to matchup with te's. He's also a guy that if the texans want to run a 3-4 look, he should be able to lineup olb on the te side,diles and ryans inside and adibi on the weakside with mario and smith playing 5 technique and okoye on the nose slanting the front. I would like to see the texans also add some of those vets that can be 3rd guys like spicer,berry or even a guy like Taylor, but he'll probably end up in new england.

Consistent pressure other than mario is a crucial needs for this team to take the next step. They need to figure if the jim johnson way is the best or the clancy perdergras way with jokers is. Either way, both are effective, but the texans needs to get personel that can do it.

I brought this back up because some of us have been wondering how we may utilize Barwin. Perhaps he plays as a joker?

leebigeztx
04-26-2009, 02:58 PM
Yeah, i really like barwin and i think cushing is more leverage against ryans contract demands. Barwin will give them flexibility on the outside and even in a traditional 4-3 look that can bring some heat. The texans can also morph into a 3-4 also if they chose.

leebigeztx
05-04-2010, 09:22 AM
Decided to bump vs starting a new one. I know its against their values and dna, but Adelius thomas would be great on this team .Why? It would give this team so many pressure packages it wouldn't even be funny. If they were to sign thomas, they would have a great 3-4 3rd down package which would be great in defending peyton. In fact, signing thomas would be reat anyway because he's a really good cover guy at lb. Having mario,okoye,and smith as the down linemen and barwin,thomas,ryans,and cushing all standing up would give oppsoing teams on 3rd down the blues. Even if they want to only bring 4, they can shoose which 4 to bring. Imagine bringing barwin and thomas from the same side as mario or bringing cushing off the strong side and thomas off the inside weak. He's not the same player he was, but he is still a very good player and pass rusher from different angles.

2slik4u
05-04-2010, 10:16 AM
The idea of jokers and pressure packages have really taken off in recent years. Since defenders can't lay a hand on receivers down the field, defensive coaches are dialing up the pressure at a high rate. Ravens, Steelers, Philly, Giants, Cardinals are just to name a few. A few of the teams are 3-4 so the pressure comes from the edges mostly, but teams like philly and ny giants do it with the zone dogs and attacking protections. Both are effective, but how can houston emulate the ideas and schemes that will allow them more consistent pressure.

Bush is a student of ryan,jim johnson, and even pendergras. He understand pressures and attacking protections of the offense. Its hard to squeeze blood from a grapefruit, but the texans do have some options.

The joker. The joker is a guy that can rush effectively from a 2 or 3 point stand. Those jokers can can sugar the concept of what they want to do. Arizona had Labboy. Berry, Smith, Dansby to name a few. That's how they created pressure and confusion with the offensive line. The o-line didn't know who was coming because all of those guys were standing up, then at the last minute they would have guys git in a 3pt stance and come after the qb.

Another way is the zone dog/5 man pressure scheme. To run this, your slb has to be a natural pass rusher. The texans blitzed more than what people gave them credit for last year, but diles nor greenwood couldn't get to the qb. Peterson, Gocong, and Kiwi are guys who made the transformation to slb so when its 3rd and long or whent the dc dial up a pressure front, they can beat a back or tight end.

Which brings me to this, I doubt they will sign enough players to have the joker packages, but the zone dog/5 man pressure could be attained easier. I think a guy that fits that slb that can rush the passer in Conner Barwin from Univ of Cincy. He's a ex te so he undestands the route tree and coverage. His 1st yr as a de tis season he had 11 sacks and 16 tackles for loss. He's big and can run so he should be able to matchup with te's. He's also a guy that if the texans want to run a 3-4 look, he should be able to lineup olb on the te side,diles and ryans inside and adibi on the weakside with mario and smith playing 5 technique and okoye on the nose slanting the front. I would like to see the texans also add some of those vets that can be 3rd guys like spicer,berry or even a guy like Taylor, but he'll probably end up in new england.

Consistent pressure other than mario is a crucial needs for this team to take the next step. They need to figure if the jim johnson way is the best or the clancy perdergras way with jokers is. Either way, both are effective, but the texans needs to get personel that can do it.

Im assuming this is a mistake. Barwin had 3.5 sacks, not 11.

TimeKiller
05-04-2010, 10:38 AM
Im assuming this is a mistake. Barwin had 3.5 sacks, not 11.

I'm quite sure that's refering to his collegiate career.

dc_txtech
05-04-2010, 11:32 AM
Im assuming this is a mistake. Barwin had 3.5 sacks, not 11.

You are quoting a post from over a year ago.

Noob :neener:

The Pencil Neck
05-04-2010, 11:58 AM
Im assuming this is a mistake. Barwin had 3.5 sacks, not 11.

People have already posted about the other problems.

But, according to NFL.com, Barwin had 4.5 sacks.

76Texan
05-04-2010, 03:41 PM
Decided to bump vs starting a new one. I know its against their values and dna, but Adelius thomas would be great on this team .Why? It would give this team so many pressure packages it wouldn't even be funny. If they were to sign thomas, they would have a great 3-4 3rd down package which would be great in defending peyton. In fact, signing thomas would be reat anyway because he's a really good cover guy at lb. Having mario,okoye,and smith as the down linemen and barwin,thomas,ryans,and cushing all standing up would give oppsoing teams on 3rd down the blues. Even if they want to only bring 4, they can shoose which 4 to bring. Imagine bringing barwin and thomas from the same side as mario or bringing cushing off the strong side and thomas off the inside weak. He's not the same player he was, but he is still a very good player and pass rusher from different angles.

Thing is even if they want to put in some 3-4 packages, they would want to send in guys they already have. Barwin, Adibi, Jamison, Nadings to name a few.

But more likely, IMOH, they would stay with the 3-3 that they have had some success with the last couple of years. To keep the nickel package intact so they can cover.

Despite A.T.'s records, I think the texans would be more concerned about working Kareem Jackson into the overall scheme; making sure that all eleven guys can be on the same page with a new CB instead of Dunta in there.

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 04:10 PM
"joker"? is that was Busing was last year?.... ummm, no. he was just a "joke"!