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View Full Version : Lance Z's mock 2.0


barrett
03-02-2009, 05:23 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/03/post_78.html

Just saw this.

bah007
03-02-2009, 05:28 PM
No offense to LZ because this isn't the first place I've seen this said, but how can a guy be a lock for the second overall pick but not good enough to be taken first overall?

The last guy I can remember who was supposed to be the unanimous #1 player didn't even go #1.

dalemurphy
03-02-2009, 05:31 PM
No offense to LZ because this isn't the first place I've seen this said, but how can a guy be a lock for the second overall pick but not good enough to be taken first overall?

ask Mario Williams!

bah007
03-02-2009, 05:32 PM
ask Mario Williams!

Exactly.

mussop
03-02-2009, 05:33 PM
No offense to LZ because this isn't the first place I've seen this said, but how can a guy be a lock for the second overall pick but not good enough to be taken first overall?

The last guy I can remember who was supposed to be the unanimous #1 player didn't even go #1.

I cant speak for LZ but I think what what he means is that St. Louis is in all likelyhood going OT and after the combine Smith is a lock to be the first one taken. If so he is right IMO.

eriadoc
03-02-2009, 05:34 PM
No offense to LZ because this isn't the first place I've seen this said, but how can a guy be a lock for the second overall pick but not good enough to be taken first overall?

The last guy I can remember who was supposed to be the unanimous #1 player didn't even go #1.

Yeah, I'm not understanding it either. I think pundits spend the entire season commenting on how great players did that were drafted later, and how inexact a science the draft is, then they lose their mind when it comes to making mocks. If a guy is good enough for the #2 overall pick, he's good enough for the #1 overall pick, if that's the argument.

barrett
03-02-2009, 05:41 PM
I think sometimes a franchise gets into a situation where they are in desperate need of a "face". A clean start. In the NFL a QB represents that more often than not. Houston did it. Atlanta did it last year when many thought they had more pressing needs or guys better rated. It happens all the time.

I think Lance see's Detroit in that kind of situation. Therefore, the #1 guy falls to #2.

barrett
03-02-2009, 05:43 PM
By the way, I'm suprised we've made it this many years with out a long haired white guy at LB. It's all the rage don't you know? This may be the end of our streak. I hope Cushing is better than A.J. Hawk. His name certainly isn't.

bah007
03-02-2009, 05:48 PM
I cant speak for LZ but I think what what he means is that St. Louis is in all likelyhood going OT and after the combine Smith is a lock to be the first one taken. If so he is right IMO.

I agree with that part.

But it seems like he is saying that it is okay for the Rams to take Smith #2 but he is not worth the #1 for the Lions?...

eriadoc
03-02-2009, 05:49 PM
I cant speak for LZ but I think what what he means is that St. Louis is in all likelyhood going OT and after the combine Smith is a lock to be the first one taken. If so he is right IMO.

I think sometimes a franchise gets into a situation where they are in desperate need of a "face". A clean start. In the NFL a QB represents that more often than not. Houston did it. Atlanta did it last year when many thought they had more pressing needs or guys better rated. It happens all the time.

I think Lance see's Detroit in that kind of situation. Therefore, the #1 guy falls to #2.

Yeah, I can think of plenty of reasons why it would shake out like LZ has it, but when LZ says, "Could the Lions use a LT like Jason Smith? Yes. Is he another Orlando Pace who was drafted with the first overall pick? No", then it makes me think he's going down a different line of reasoning altogether.

disaacks3
03-02-2009, 06:16 PM
It'd be real interesting if Jenkins fell to us @15. Maybe D-Rob might be easier to negotiate with if there's someone on the other side that can help share the heat with. (and don't get me started on how badly we've needed a real FS for years)

beerlover
03-03-2009, 04:16 AM
of course its a very good mock, he has both a trained eye & inside contacts. such as the Oakland pick of Darrius Heyword-Bey a very impressive receiver, has all the tools none of the question marks of Crabtree who he has going w/next pick to Jacksonville which I just can't buy with Andre Smith on the board. Texans Cushing yeah probably if he's still there? if not do they take Maybin or trade down he doesn't have my guy English even in the first rd.

Vontae Davis has some bust potential? even if there is a hint why would Detroit take that risk if they want to go CB take Butler who he's gift wraping for the Giants. Miami he has taking Brian Robiskie, you guys thought I was crazy for slotting him two picks later to the Colts? I really like the Unger pick to Baltimore.

:twocents:

BattleRedToro
03-03-2009, 07:54 AM
If the draft pans out that way to #15 with Sanchez available, then I could see the Texans trading down with Tampa Bay, and possibly picking the best OLB available there, or trying to trade down again.

Blake
03-03-2009, 08:51 AM
I don't think he ever said Smith is not good enough for the #1 pick, he just said he is no Orlando Pace. Maybe insinuating that hes not worth the #1 pick, but that would be silly to say since hes giving him #2 money with St Louis. I guess it depends on how to read it.

rarazz00
03-03-2009, 09:08 AM
In terms of trading back, look who is behind us...SanDiego. The Jets are probably lookin' at QB and Tampa Bay too.. If LZ's mock were to hold true then Tampa Bay is gonna call SanDiego(who isn't looking for a QB, for a trade...they'll also ask us, just to cover their ass. I think SanDiego will get the first oppotunity for a trade before we will and that would be Tampa Bay doing the calling. Also the Jets and Tampa Bay may jump alot sooner before SanFransico picks just to be sure. I'm just saying we are not guarateed a dance partner with LZ's mock, though we have a chance.

threetoedpete
03-03-2009, 12:13 PM
Any Mock that doesn't have one of the centers going in the first....I dismiss out of hand at this point in the process. And....as good a value as Clay Mathews is to the Colts....they have to have a WR for Manning's Machine. Robiskie fits. Practicing for hours....watching film for hours...takes some discipline. Hakeem Nixs works. Robiskie is locked and loaded to be their #2 first game in September.

threetoedpete
03-03-2009, 12:24 PM
In terms of trading back, look who is behind us...SanDiego. The Jets are probably lookin' at QB and Tampa Bay too.. If LZ's mock were to hold true then Tampa Bay is gonna call San Diego(who isn't looking for a QB, for a trade...they'll also ask us, just to cover their ass. I think San Diego will get the first opportunity for a trade before we will and that would be Tampa Bay doing the calling. Also the Jets and Tampa Bay may jump alot sooner before SanFransico picks just to be sure. I'm just saying we are not guaranteed a dance partner with LZ's mock, though we have a chance.

Pretty good....anytime I hear a RB has a toe....that's panic time. Bolts have to have a Rb in case Ladanian's "toe" is chronic. Lot of RBs in the pile. Only a couple with the Field vision that LT has. and that line is a bit slew footed to block for a banger.

All the tweeners on the board they can afford to wait on the LB until the second.

That's a lot of value to jump from the teens into the top ten. Better be sold on the guy.

On the other hand....Orakpo falling to 13....that's a pin prick to move up. Think LZ panicked when Orakpo fell down his mock ? especaily if Denver is looking for the 3-4 De and by his own Mock Jarron Gilbert is a first rounder for back up if they lose Tyson Jackson by the move down. Denver would have no down side and little risk to move back with the Texans.

BattleRedToro
03-04-2009, 07:26 AM
In terms of trading back, look who is behind us...SanDiego. The Jets are probably lookin' at QB and Tampa Bay too.. If LZ's mock were to hold true then Tampa Bay is gonna call SanDiego(who isn't looking for a QB, for a trade...they'll also ask us, just to cover their ass. I think SanDiego will get the first oppotunity for a trade before we will and that would be Tampa Bay doing the calling. Also the Jets and Tampa Bay may jump alot sooner before SanFransico picks just to be sure. I'm just saying we are not guarateed a dance partner with LZ's mock, though we have a chance.

Ok, in your scenario were the Jets and Tampa Bay both want Sanchez, he falls down the draft board, and Tampa Bay trades with San Diego before the Texans make their pick, what is to stop the Jets from trading with the Texans and getting Sanchez? Nothing.

rarazz00
03-04-2009, 08:34 AM
Ok, in your scenario were the Jets and Tampa Bay both want Sanchez, he falls down the draft board, and Tampa Bay trades with San Diego before the Texans make their pick, what is to stop the Jets from trading with the Texans and getting Sanchez? Nothing.yes your right...the Jets know that Houston and SanDiego will not take a QB. so Sanchez would fall to them with out any trades for him. I don't think TampaBay will let this happen. Both clubs (Jets/Tampa Bay)know that they both want Sanchez, now enter the bidding...both clubs will already anticipate this and call Houston and SanDiego to let them know where they stand if Sanchez passes thru the clutches of San Fransico. I see that I mis spoke in my earlier quote..good catch "BattleRedToro"....:tiphat:

scourge
03-04-2009, 11:30 AM
can someone post the mock?

I am blog blocked here at work...

badboy
03-04-2009, 01:15 PM
If neither Raji or Jenkins there at 15, I begin to pray for a solid trade down offer. I want no one else at #15.

Wolf6151
03-04-2009, 02:01 PM
1. Detroit - Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia: Could the Lions use a LT like Jason Smith? Yes. Is he another Orlando Pace who was drafted with the first overall pick? No. Wake Forest LB Aaron Curry is getting a ton of buzz and supposedly the Lions have an interest in him, but I can't see it as the first pick. I'm going to go with Stafford again unless he looks bad throwing the ball at his pro day.

2. St. Louis - Jason Smith, OT, Baylor: The Rams have an aging LT in Pace and a disappointing RT in Barron. They need tackle help and Jason Smith in this spot is looking like more and more of a lock after his stellar combine.

3. Kansas City - Eugene Monroe, LT, Virginia : If there is one thing that Scott Pioli learned under Bill Belichick it is that the key to building a winner starts on the offensive and defensive line. I expect the Chiefs to look at best available on either side of the line and that would be Monroe who would team up with his college teammate, Branden Albert once again..

4. Seattle - B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College: The Seahawks defense was a huge disappointment last year and they could really use a hammer in the middle of that defensive line. Raji is that hammer. Raji will help against the run and can collapse the pocket on third downs.

5. Cleveland - Aaron Curry, OLB, Wake Forest: The Browns need help at one OLB spot and on the inside. Curry is the type of active athlete that helps make the Steelers tick on defense each year. Why wouldn't the Browns want to grab that kind of guy?

6. Cincinnati - Michael Oher, OT, Ole Miss : The Bengals will be looking for someone to replace Stacy Andrews at RT in the draft, and Oher's athleticism will be a nice addition on that side of the line.

7. Oakland - Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland: Surely the Raiders aren't this predictable, right? Surely they aren't going to keep drafting guys with size and speed despite limited productivity in college, right? Wrong. Al Davis is predictable and is said to be in love with Heyward-Bey already.

8. Jacksonville - Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech: With Reggie Williams being arrested recently, it makes the need at WR even greater for the Jaguars. While the Jags will be tempted to draft Andre Smith on the offensive line, the ability to add a potential No. 1 WR might be too tough for the Jaguars to pass up here. The Jags must address the offensive line at some point in this draft, however.

9. Green Bay - Andre Smith, OT, Alabama: The Packers have a hole at the RT spot and Smith would be a guy who could fill the RT spot or even a guard spot if you want to bump him down inside. Everyone is down on Smith because of his antics at the combine, but if he has a decent workout at his pro day, you'll see his stock go back up.

10. San Francisco - Everette Brown, DE/OLB, Florida State: The Niners have to make a decision on QB (Mark Sanchez) or defense and my guess is that they will view Everette Brown as a a player with a higher ceiling than Sanchez. Brown is an explosive player who can come in and help the Niners defense right away both against the run and the pass.

11. Buffalo - Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State: I know everyone is jumping off of the Pettigrew bandwagon because he didn't blaze the track at the combine, but he never has been a speed guy. He's a big target who can help with the Bills running game. He might be the safest pick on the board for the Bills at this spot.

12. Denver - Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU: Are you crazy Lance? I know this is very early for Jackson and I am more tempted to put Brian Orakpo here but the Broncos have some major personnel work to do with their defensive line in their new 3-4 and Jackson is the best 3-4 DE in the draft.

13. Washington - Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas: The Redskins have told Orakpo that they can see him as a 4-3 strongside LB. I don't know if that is a great fit for him, but he could definitely be used to rush the passer as a DE for them and every team loves his leadership and his high character. His history of injuries is what is the big concern.

14. New Orleans - Malcolm Jenkins, FS/CB, Ohio State: The Saints could go in a number of directions here, but all of them would be on defense. The Saints could look at CB in this spot, but their big need is at FS and Jenkins should be able to transition to FS. Jenkins might not have great straight line speed, but he's a willing tackler and a good football player who can help make the Saints better defensively.

15. Houston - Brian Cushing, LB, USC: Cushing brings physicality to the position and he has the ability to potentially put a hand on the ground and rush the passer on 3rd down. Worst case scenario is that Cushing is a better blitzer than anyone the Texans have had at the LB position so far.

16. San Diego - Aaron Maybin, DE, Penn State: Even with Shawne Merriman coming back, the Chargers would be well served to add another pass rusher to the mix since the defense went into the toilet once Merriman went down. Maybe gives the Chargers another athlete and he could eventually press Shaun Phillips for playing time at OLB.

17. New York Jets - Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri: The Jets cut Laveranues Coles so they could use a WR here. While they have a decent WR corps even without Coles, Maclin has the added value of being a very dangerous return man as well.

18. Chicago - Phil Loadholt, OT, Oklahoma: The Bears need a RT badly and if they wait around until the 2nd round, they might find all of the tackles that they covet off the board. This could be a "trade back" spot for the Bears.

19. Tampa Bay - Mark Sanchez, QB, USC: The Bucs have had QB after QB added to the roster, but finally they draft one in the first round. Sanchez is a guy they can work in slowly or throw right into the fire depending on how much they think he can absorb. While the Bucs would probably be better suited to draft a DT like Peria Jerry, the lure of a starting QB like Sanchez might be too much to pass up.

20. Detroit - Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois: The Lions have so many areas that they must address but one of the biggest holes is in the secondary. While Davis has some bust potential, his upside is something the Lions might be willing to gamble on.

21. Philadelphia - Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia: The Eagles could reach here and go with a tackle, but my guess is they go best available and look tackle a little bit later.

22. Minnesota - Percy Harvin, WR, Florida: The Vikings are in pretty good shape on the defensive side of the ball, but they lack a playmaker on offense. Not now.

23. New England - Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC: While Clay Matthews feels like more of a Patriot in this spot, Maualuga can thump inside like the Patriots like.

24. Atlanta - Peria Jerry, DT, Ole Miss: The Falcons need to get better on the defensive line and Jerry can step in right away and be productive for defensive-oriented head coach, Mike Smith.

25. Miami - Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State: The Dolphins defense is in pretty good shape, but they could still look on that side of the ball here. Instead, I'm gambling that Robiskie's impressive combine moves onto the Dolphins' radar.

26. Baltimore - Max Unger, C/G, Oregon With Jason Brown gone, the Ravens will either have to rely on Chris Chester, or they could draft Unger and play him at center. There is also a chance that Unger could kick out to RG and take over for Marshall Yanda who is average at best.

27. Indianapolis - Clay Matthews, LB, USC: The Colts defense has been an issue for far too long and the Colts would be smart o add the toughness and speed of Matthews here.

28. Philadelphia - William Beatty, LT, UConn: Since I gave the Eagles a RB earlier in the draft, this could be the spot where they look to address a glaring need at tackle. The Eagles are desperate for tackle and they might package their picks and move up to get one. If not, Beatty has the athleticism that teams like even if his strength could be a problem.

29. New York Giants - Darrius Butler, CB, UConn: While I believe Alphonso Smith is the better CB, his lack of size will hurt him. Butler is a fluid athlete with good size and might be able to transition into the Giants nickel packages fairly quickly.

30. Tennessee - Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina: I feel like a total sucker for putting Nicks here. Sure, the Titans need WR help, but they aren't going to just take one in this spot just because it is a need. If the Titans don't like Nicks or Kenny Britt here, it wouldn't shock me to see them draft a smart center like Alex Mack or Eric Wood to take over for Kevin Mawae.

31. Arizona - Michael Johnson, DE, Georgia Tech: With Antonio Smith departing via free agency, the Cardinals will need to find a new strong-side DE. If Johnson plays to his measurables, he would be an upgrade over Smith.

32. Pittsburgh - Jarron Gilbert, DE, San Jose State: Steelers fans would probably rather the team address offensive line here, but Gilbert is a great fit for what the Steelers do and could fit into the defensive line rotation fairly quickly.

mussop
03-04-2009, 05:25 PM
I really hope we dont draft Cushing. Of course if we do I will be a fan but for some reason I just dont want him. Give me Clay Mathews at 15 over him all day long.

Blake
03-04-2009, 05:34 PM
I really hope we dont draft Cushing. Of course if we do I will be a fan but for some reason I just dont want him. Give me Clay Mathews at 15 over him all day long.

Lets hope the Saints are dumb enough to take Cushing at 14. Not a huge CM3 @ 15 fan either, but would rather take him than Cushing.