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HouSportsWriter
03-02-2009, 09:36 AM
from
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6288949.html


The best thing about the Texans’ offseason is it does not appear they have made any major mistakes.

OK, that’s not cause for celebration, but this is March. The first game is six months away. There are many moves left. But this was a good weekend.

After clearing some dead weight, the Texans made two additions in free agency — backup quarterback Dan Orlovsky (Sunday) and defensive end Antonio Smith (Saturday) — and they made the 21st trade in franchise history in moving QB Sage Rosenfels to Minnesota for a fourth-round pick (Friday).

For what the Texans would like to do defensively, Smith might have been the best available defensive end this side of Julius Peppers, at a lower salary and without the costly trade value. His signing opens the draft door for the Texans and should keep them from overvaluing the ends who are available when they are on the board.

“That was an excellent get for them,” an AFC scout said. “Their defense takes on a different look immediately.”

The other two moves go together. The Texans swapped one quarterback who earned notoriety for a curious on-the-field move this past season for another (and a fourth-round pick).

Dueling blunders
Orlovsky’s back-of-the-end-zone blunder was more embarrassing than Rosenfels’ error in judgment against the Colts. In his first NFL start for Detroit, a week before he had a solid game at Reliant Stadium, Orlovsky gave up a safety by inadvertently running out of the back of the end zone against Minnesota.

It could have happened to anybody. Well, anybody who is accustomed to the 25-yard deep Canadian Football League end zones. Orlovsky took seven steps along the white border before the referee’s whistle saved him from further humiliation.

“Ten seconds after, I realized how idiotic it was and how dumb it was, but I wasn’t going to change it,” Orlovsky said Sunday. “It’s one of those things that you wish your name was never attached to, but it was.”

Also attached to his name are losses in his seven starts during the Lions’ march to 0-16, the worst season in NFL history. But Orlovsky had a couple decent games.

Orlovsky brings four years of NFL experience to the Texans, having completed 150 passes with eight touchdowns and eight interceptions. You wonder just how bad a quarterback must be not to have earned the job with the Lions, but that’s not important. The Texans aren’t bringing Orlovsky here to earn a starting job.

When Rosenfels came to the Texans, he too had four seasons in the NFL, with 109 completions, six touchdowns and six interceptions.

Rosenfels had tried and failed with the Redskins and Dolphins. One wondered just how bad a quarterback must have been not to have earned a job with those quarterback-starved teams. We were surprised Rosenfels was a halfway decent QB.

Tough break
He thought he was better than David Carr, and he was right, but Rosenfels got hurt just when he was about to get his chance to start. When the Texans got Matt Schaub the next offseason, Rosenfels’ fate as a backup was sealed.

Gary Kubiak deserves credit for how solid a backup Rosenfels became. Give Kubiak time with Orlovsky, and the same is possible.

Smith is better than Anthony Weaver, Rick Smith has an extra draft pick in play, and Kubiak will make Orlovsky better than he is. That’s why this was a good weekend for the Texans.




post what you think thank you =]

The Pencil Neck
03-02-2009, 09:43 AM
I agree. I think we've had a very promising offseason so far.

Thorn
03-02-2009, 09:54 AM
So far we've done OK this off season IMO. We've upgraded the DE on the other side of Mario, but by how much remains to be seen. As long as we don't put any unrealistic goals on Smith, we'll be OK. Him just being a bigger threat than Weaver demands the other guys offense account for him, which is an improvement and will help Mario. I'm good with that.

As to Orlovsky, well, I guess we'll see about that. For now, I'm in a wait and see but trusting mode with this guy. I trust they'll coach him up and he'll be a suitable replacement for Sage as long as we don't need to use him to early in the seaon. Like everyone else, I'm waiting to see what they do with the pick we got for Sage.

PHAROAH
03-02-2009, 10:12 AM
I like all of the moves that have been made at this point and I think front office is doing a great job!!!!

badboy
03-02-2009, 10:21 AM
So far we've done OK this off season IMO. We've upgraded the DE on the other side of Mario, but by how much remains to be seen. As long as we don't put any unrealistic goals on Smith, we'll be OK. Him just being a bigger threat than Weaver demands the other guys offense account for him, which is an improvement and will help Mario. I'm good with that.

As to Orlovsky, well, I guess we'll see about that. For now, I'm in a wait and see but trusting mode with this guy. I trust they'll coach him up and he'll be a suitable replacement for Sage as long as we don't need to use him to early in the seaon. Like everyone else, I'm waiting to see what they do with the pick we got for Sage.I'm right there with ya. Of all the QBs out there, I latched on to Orlovsky. He didn't have much to work with in Detroit and a year with Kubes should be helpful. I think AJ offering him advice can only help. Garcia is the only QB that could keep us going imo if S. went down, but I just did not want him on team @ 39 with a possible QB controversy.

Benson I did not want last season; but after avg like 7 ypc with Bengals and keeping straight, I would be ok if not too expensive. I still want at least one more back in draft and maybe 2. A Jennings in 2nd or Peerman from Virginia in 5th and maybe Gartrell Johnson in 6th would save Slaton wear & tear and still get us to RZ with G. Johnson there to punch it in. Now if we could just land Raji as DT to stop the run....

TimeKiller
03-02-2009, 10:27 AM
So Mario, Amobi and Smith have it locked if nothing else due to salary.

Cochran, Bulman, DelJuan Robinson, McClover, Zgonina, Okam, TJ

Somebody is getting cut. Methinks Z and Okam unless Okam brings it.

The Pencil Neck
03-02-2009, 10:30 AM
So Mario, Amobi and Smith have it locked if nothing else due to salary.

Cochran, Bulman, DelJuan Robinson, McClover, Zgonina, Okam, TJ

Somebody is getting cut. Methinks Z and Okam unless Okam brings it.

Zgonina's already a FA.

HoustonFrog
03-02-2009, 10:33 AM
I'm never sold on these types of things. It may seem by the book and great but I remember the signings of Green and others and most saying they were perfect because it was a vet to play while they groomed a backup or that this person would open things up inside to allow Mario to rush, etc, etc. I'm not being negative...all three things are solid and look good in my book. I just temper enthusiasm for signings by any team because you never know how they will fit or how much the good or bad from past seasons will show in their game. But I luike the moves from the outside and what it opens up for the draft.

barrett
03-02-2009, 11:13 AM
I like the moves. We secured two positions that are supposedly thin in the draft this year. Both a run stopping DE that can still rush the passer and slide down on 3rd down, and a backup QB.

This free's us up to really go for players of higher value. Guys that can either fill specific needs in later rounds that would go for much le$$ as well as trading down for even more. At this point I'll be almost disappointed if we aren't able to trade down and ad a few more pics. I think we're right on track.

Ckw
03-02-2009, 11:22 AM
This article hits the nail on the head. The Sage trade was a decent trade. It rewarded Sage for being a good teammate and not throwing a fit about not getting the starting nod, and it gives us something for him when at the end of this season he would leave anyway and we would have nothing to show for it.

Antonio Smith was arguably the best available FA DE, and the way his contract is setup (at least how I understand it) he will be paid all of his guaranteed $12.5 mil within the first two seasons which gets us off the hook for his contract if he doesn't perform. IMO, he will do just fine across from Mario and will be the DE we need.

Orlovsky brings some experience, and I really believe he can be coached up. Too many posters forget just how inept Sage seemed we he couldn't even get the starting job for the Miami Dolphins. He was not a good QB before Kubiak started coaching him, and I strongly believe Kubiak will do the same for Orlovsky. Call me crazy, but I truly believe Kubiak is the best QB coach in the NFL. In Kubiak I trust.

Hooston Texan
03-02-2009, 11:23 AM
I'm right there with ya. Of all the QBs out there, I latched on to Orlovsky. He didn't have much to work with in Detroit and a year with Kubes should be helpful. I think AJ offering him advice can only help. Garcia is the only QB that could keep us going imo if S. went down, but I just did not want him on team @ 39 with a possible QB controversy.

Benson I did not want last season; but after avg like 7 ypc with Bengals and keeping straight, I would be ok if not too expensive. I still want at least one more back in draft and maybe 2. A Jennings in 2nd or Peerman from Virginia in 5th and maybe Gartrell Johnson in 6th would save Slaton wear & tear and still get us to RZ with G. Johnson there to punch it in. Now if we could just land Raji as DT to stop the run....

You need to cut that yard-per-carry average for Benson with the Bungles in half. He only managed 3.5 yards.

But I agree we need at least one more RB. Usually, I don't think high-in-the-draft RBs are a good value for a developing team because their lifespans are so short, but I think we are now poised to make a run. I haven't kept up much with this years' RB draft class, but if the team determines that a guy like Wells or Moreno knocks our socks off and is the BPA at pick 15, then we should go for it . . .

TexansFan33
03-02-2009, 11:25 AM
Man "Pubeiak" doesnt want to end up like Capers he better turn water into wine this year with the draft and free agency.

Ckw
03-02-2009, 11:30 AM
Man "Pubeiak" doesnt want to end up like Capers he better turn water into wine this year with the draft and free agency.

So that's all you have to offer to the thread. Wow...

TexansFan33
03-02-2009, 11:34 AM
Yea i want change! I dont know what you have been watching for the last 4 years but it hasnt been pretty I'm sick of mediocrity.

Ckw
03-02-2009, 11:38 AM
Yea i want change! I dont know what you have been watching for the last 4 years but it hasnt been pretty I'm sick of mediocrity.

Do you realize the turnaround we have had since that 2-14 season? I don't think you understand how terrible this team was and how many positions on this team needed to fill. Before Kubiak got here, we had a grand total of 3 quality NFL starters: AJ, Pitts, and Dunta. Every other position had to be filled and that is awful. Last season, I strongly believe we would have done a lot better if we had Dunta the entire year. He totally changed our defense when he came back.

Now look, I am with you if this team does not win at least 9 or 10 games and make the playoffs but until then, I think you need to research just how awful this team was and how much better we have become.

TexansFan33
03-02-2009, 11:50 AM
I watched most of the games this year and to me we had a good product on the field most of the time. We will see in this years draft if they are serious about winning because I understand we got very lucky with Mario which wasn't a Kubiak decision. Every year I tune into the draft hoping that the Texans will get that game changer and each year i'm let down. In order to build a team you go out and get your special guys that only come once every five drafts and you go get them. Then you start filling in the pieces later I think the Texans are doing that in reverse. Sure we got AJ and Mario but thats was from having 2 terrible years. I honestly think we should trade up in order to get a very high quality player. Kubiak has done OK with two 8-8 years but I think another 8-8 season and he is going to be signing his walking papers. If you think about it we have been trying to put together a defense for a while and it hasn't exactly worked out for us. Kubiak isnt a defensive minded guy, Tomlin just won a superbowl and his defense was the reason he put together a championship defense because he knew how to build one.

Ckw
03-02-2009, 11:54 AM
We will see in this years draft if they are serious about winning because I understand we got very lucky with Mario which wasn't a Kubiak decision.

Ok I agree that another 8-8 year will mean the end of the Kubiak era, as it should but what?!? Who's decision do you think it was to draft Mario? If you say Casserly, you are nuts. The guy was already a goner and was only kept around as a formality. That signing was all Kubiak and Bob McNair.

TexansFan33
03-02-2009, 11:57 AM
No, it was Casserly trying to have the last laugh and he failed miserably.
They have credited him multiple times on NFL network for drafting Mario.

Errant Hothy
03-02-2009, 12:01 PM
I watched most of the games this year and to me we had a good product on the field most of the time. We will see in this years draft if they are serious about winning because I understand we got very lucky with Mario which wasn't a Kubiak decision. Every year I tune into the draft hoping that the Texans will get that game changer and each year i'm let down. In order to build a team you go out and get your special guys that only come once every five drafts and you go get them. Then you start filling in the pieces later I think the Texans are doing that in reverse. Sure we got AJ and Mario but thats was from having 2 terrible years. I honestly think we should trade up in order to get a very high quality player. Kubiak has done OK with two 8-8 years but I think another 8-8 season and he is going to be signing his walking papers. If you think about it we have been trying to put together a defense for a while and it hasn't exactly worked out for us. Kubiak isnt a defensive minded guy, Tomlin just won a superbowl and his defense was the reason he put together a championship defense because he knew how to build one.

So that's what the Steelers did? How bout the Patriots? Maybe the Colts? Because we all know those teams have a history of trading up in the draft.

Also if each draft holds a once every five year talent, wouldn't that really be a once every year talent. Not to mention that the other 31 teams in the NFL would also be going after said once every 5 year, but really once every year player.

Tomlin should not receive any prasie for the Steelers D. That D is the creation of Dick LeBeau, all Tomlin did was know enough to leave it alone.

Goldensilence
03-02-2009, 12:17 PM
I watched most of the games this year and to me we had a good product on the field most of the time. We will see in this years draft if they are serious about winning because I understand we got very lucky with Mario which wasn't a Kubiak decision. Every year I tune into the draft hoping that the Texans will get that game changer and each year i'm let down. In order to build a team you go out and get your special guys that only come once every five drafts and you go get them. Then you start filling in the pieces later I think the Texans are doing that in reverse. Sure we got AJ and Mario but thats was from having 2 terrible years. I honestly think we should trade up in order to get a very high quality player. Kubiak has done OK with two 8-8 years but I think another 8-8 season and he is going to be signing his walking papers. If you think about it we have been trying to put together a defense for a while and it hasn't exactly worked out for us. Kubiak isnt a defensive minded guy, Tomlin just won a superbowl and his defense was the reason he put together a championship defense because he knew how to build one.

Yeah that Steve Slaton guy ....not a game changer at all? How many runs over 20 yards did he break?

Xavier Adibi....psht I think he only had like 12 tackles his first NFL start against the Colts.

That Owen Daniels kid? Didn't he just make the pro bowl?


Mike Tomlin had a pretty damn good team in place when he took the reigns over and one of the most stable NFL teams. I'm not down playing Tomlin's accomplishments but I'm also saying he didn't have to start out with a 2-14 team that was terrible top to bottom with the exception of a few players.

All that said you're right this team does need to take that step forward to be a winning team, and make a playoff push. I think this off-season so far has been a good step in that direction. We got a fairly proven player across from Mario Williams. Made a few additions by subtraction. Traded a QB that I'm just not sure the staff could trust anymore, and gave him a shot to start elsewhere. Brought in a QB who at least has game time experience, yes he admittedly made a pretty stupid mistake, but I think the kid has got all the tools to work with.

You build teams from the ground up and while this organization hasn't hit on every FA or Draft pick I think it's been more successful then failures, and I'm seeing signs they are learning from them.

Ckw
03-02-2009, 12:19 PM
No, it was Casserly trying to have the last laugh and he failed miserably.
They have credited him multiple times on NFL network for drafting Mario.

Yes, the talking heads have said that about Casserly but don't believe everything you hear. Trust me, the guy that was about to get fired did not make that selection.

Casserly isn't about to say on air that he didn't make the selection and that he had been stripped of his duties. He is going to take credit as much as he can because it is essentially the only thing "he" has ever done right. And once again, he didn't make that selection. The Texans are simply a classy enough organization to not call him out on it.

TexansFan33
03-02-2009, 12:20 PM
Tomlin deserves all the credit in the world, sure Dick Leabeau was the DC but do you think he jus left him alone to run the d by himself? No, he had imputs on the defense and offense. Dick Leabeau didnt draft Lamar Woodley or Sign James Harrison that was a Tomlin move.

The Pencil Neck
03-02-2009, 12:22 PM
I watched most of the games this year and to me we had a good product on the field most of the time. We will see in this years draft if they are serious about winning because I understand we got very lucky with Mario which wasn't a Kubiak decision. Every year I tune into the draft hoping that the Texans will get that game changer and each year i'm let down. In order to build a team you go out and get your special guys that only come once every five drafts and you go get them. Then you start filling in the pieces later I think the Texans are doing that in reverse. Sure we got AJ and Mario but thats was from having 2 terrible years. I honestly think we should trade up in order to get a very high quality player. Kubiak has done OK with two 8-8 years but I think another 8-8 season and he is going to be signing his walking papers. If you think about it we have been trying to put together a defense for a while and it hasn't exactly worked out for us. Kubiak isnt a defensive minded guy, Tomlin just won a superbowl and his defense was the reason he put together a championship defense because he knew how to build one.

First off, if a player really only comes along once every 5 years, then only one team gets that player every five years. So, by your reckoning, only one team has a chance to improve itself every 5 years. Dude. You're wrong.

You think we should trade up to get that special player? How'd that work out for the Jaguars last year who had 2 picks in the top 10?

Tomlin won a Super Bowl with a team that had been mostly built through the draft by Cowher NOT by trading up but by using their picks to get the right guys later in the draft.

You're looking for a big sexy splash in FA and in the draft and that's a pretty sure way to mediocrity if not outright Lionism and Bengalism.

TexansFan33
03-02-2009, 12:25 PM
Were taking the right steps this offseason in order to get better, but you have Bengalism all wrong bengalism is when you let your best player walking right out the front door and you do nothing to stop it.

thunderkyss
03-02-2009, 12:26 PM
Do you realize the turnaround we have had since that 2-14 season? I don't think you understand how terrible this team was and how many positions on this team needed to fill.

I seriously doubt we'll sign any of our draft picks to start immediately.

I can't think of a spot on our team that is so weak, that we'd draft and start someone right away.

In the past, it was hard not to.

badboy
03-02-2009, 12:27 PM
You need to cut that yard-per-carry average for Benson with the Bungles in half. He only managed 3.5 yards.

But I agree we need at least one more RB. Usually, I don't think high-in-the-draft RBs are a good value for a developing team because their lifespans are so short, but I think we are now poised to make a run. I haven't kept up much with this years' RB draft class, but if the team determines that a guy like Wells or Moreno knocks our socks off and is the BPA at pick 15, then we should go for it . . .Thanks for correction. I sped read the Chron 747 yds per "10 games" & transposed to 7.4 per carry. I thought that was high but my attention was on Orlosvky. Nenson sounds more like anothr Ahman Green.

OzzO
03-02-2009, 12:36 PM
From the article...
Rosenfels had tried and failed with the Redskins and Dolphins. One wondered just how bad a quarterback must have been not to have earned a job with those quarterback-starved teams. We were surprised Rosenfels was a halfway decent QB.

Tough break
He thought he was better than David Carr, and he was right, but Rosenfels got hurt just when he was about to get his chance to start. When the Texans got Matt Schaub the next offseason, Rosenfels’ fate as a backup was sealed.

Makes you wonder (okay, maybe just me wonder) how different it'd be right now if that scenario didn't happen. Sorry for the hijack, back to your regularly scheduled discussion with TF33 and his post.

Errant Hothy
03-02-2009, 12:37 PM
Tomlin deserves all the credit in the world, sure Dick Leabeau was the DC but do you think he jus left him alone to run the d by himself? No, he had imputs on the defense and offense. Dick Leabeau didnt draft Lamar Woodley or Sign James Harrison that was a Tomlin move.

Yes, I do think Tomlin left LeBeau alone to run the D. Why wouldn't he?

Tomlin was a Tampa-2 guy. He had never coached a 3-4, espically the zone blitzing type employed by Pittsburgh, before getting the HC job. And yes I doubt that Tomlin had little to do with the signing of Harrison and the drafting of Woodley. LeBeau knows what he needs to make his D run, as does the personnel department in Pittsburg.

badboy
03-02-2009, 12:39 PM
I seriously doubt we'll sign any of our draft picks to start immediately.

I can't think of a spot on our team that is so weak, that we'd draft and start someone right away.

In the past, it was hard not to.Starters from draft 1st Raji or if not there 2nd round Ron Brace for DT or even Rashad Jennings. I know this thread will now implode as I suggest not starting Slaton. He will be starter but I could see Jennings getting as many if not more rushes. Slaton should be cut back to lengthen his career and still get plenty of carries in 2nd half as a "fresher back" than last year. I could see Rashad Johnson in 3rd as a free safety that possibly could beat out Wilson in camp. It is possible that Canfield in 4th could beat out Brisiel or Cedric Peerman as a fast bigger Slaton being the starter. Probably not but possible. Just saying.

Ckw
03-02-2009, 12:41 PM
I seriously doubt we'll sign any of our draft picks to start immediately.

I can't think of a spot on our team that is so weak, that we'd draft and start someone right away.

In the past, it was hard not to.

Exactly. It's incredible that 3-4 years ago, we needed a new starter at almost every position. Now, we have enough depth that we have a decent starter at almost every position, and we have depth at almost every position. When Kubiak first got here, he was having to draft players that he thought could start immediately. He hit more often than he missed.

TexansFan33
03-02-2009, 12:42 PM
Starters from draft 1st Raji or if not there 2nd round Ron Brace for DT or even Rashad Jennings. I know this thread will now implode as I suggest not starting Slaton. He will be starter but I could see Jennings getting as many if not more rushes. Slaton should be cut back to lengthen his career and still get plenty of carries in 2nd half as a "fresher back" than last year. I could see Rashad Johnson in 3rd as a free safety that possibly could beat out Wilson in camp. It is possible that Canfield in 4th could beat out Brisiel or Cedric Peerman as a fast bigger Slaton being the starter. Probably not but possible. Just saying.

We should let him share time with someone I agree but with giving slaton majority of the touches. We dont want slaton ending up like domanick davis-williams.(or whatever his name is)

TimeKiller
03-02-2009, 12:50 PM
Fail in bold.
I watched most of the games this year and to me we had a good product on the field most of the time. We will see in this years draft if they are serious about winning because I understand we got very lucky with Mario which wasn't a Kubiak decision. Every year I tune into the draft hoping that the Texans will get that game changer and each year i'm let down.
Slaton?

In order to build a team you go out and get your special guys that only come once every five drafts and you go get them. Then you start filling in the pieces later I think the Texans are doing that in reverse. Sure we got AJ and Mario but thats was from having 2 terrible years. I honestly think we should trade up in order to get a very high quality player. Kubiak has done OK with two 8-8 years but I think another 8-8 season and he is going to be signing his walking papers. If you think about it we have been trying to put together a defense for a while and it hasn't exactly worked out for us. Kubiak isnt a defensive minded guy, Tomlin just won a superbowl and his defense was the reason he put together a championship defense because he knew how to build one.

Dude. C'mon man. Just come the hell on.

Kubiak isn't a defensive minded guy, so I'm just going to rail on the part that hasn't been top 5 in the league....

EPICLY BAD POST

Goldensilence
03-02-2009, 01:00 PM
I seriously doubt we'll sign any of our draft picks to start immediately.

I can't think of a spot on our team that is so weak, that we'd draft and start someone right away.

In the past, it was hard not to.

Pretty much spot on I do think there are multiple spots that could use a serious upgrade though.

From the article...


Makes you wonder (okay, maybe just me wonder) how different it'd be right now if that scenario didn't happen. Sorry for the hijack, back to your regularly scheduled discussion with TF33 and his post.

Don't think it'd change much IMO. If you have a guy you feel is starter material regardless of injury you stick with him. Kubiak and the rest of the staff obviously felt Sage wasn't that guy or they wouldn't have made the trade. What makes me wonder if if the staff knew for a fact Quinn was going to be available at that pick would they have made the trade for Schaub?

TexansFan33
03-02-2009, 01:01 PM
Fail in bold.
fail= bold
Slaton?


Dude. C'mon man. Just come the hell on.Kubiak isn't a defensive minded guy, so I'm just going to rail on the part that hasn't been top 5 in the league....

And what do you purpose genius?! Your obviously ok with not bein taken seriously. So tell me whats your plan? We had way too many turnovers this year we had no pass rush and your saying kubiak had a good year? 8-8 we beat the lions, bengals, packers, jags, bears, browns...... We didnt beat ANYBODY! all those clubs had losing records last year.

Timekiller how sad, how hilariously sad.

Texanmike02
03-02-2009, 01:06 PM
Yea i want change! I dont know what you have been watching for the last 4 years but it hasnt been pretty I'm sick of mediocrity.

Wow.

Rome wasn't built in a day my friend. Do you realize the possibilities that exist for this team.

If you told me after 2-14 that I would like the teams direction the next year I'd have said you were crazy. The truth is, this team, for the first time in their history, has improved with the league. Every year this league gets better. Sure you have teams that fall off, that's going to happen... but over all the league's talent gets better. The texans have progressed with the times. In fact we're ahead of the curve. What were our weaknesses coming into the off season?

Our most pressing issues were a pass rusher, a FS/SS (however they are going to be used by our recently promoted DC) as well as a OLB and a backup running back. We momentarily created a need at backup QB, which has been filled while we added a draft pick. We now have 8 draft picks to fill two critical needs. When was the last time you remember this team in a position to draft BPA for 6 of the draft picks? We're considering upgrading MLB? Seriously, with Demeco as our MLB we're considering upgrading at THAT position? What does that tell you about this team. They have arrived, they are a legitimate NFL team. They were Mediocre last year but its a young roster with upcoming stars on both sides of the ball. This isn't the Browns type mediocre. There has been a clear plan and direction for the team, even if we didn't see it. We're not just looking to add bodies any more, we are demanding quality depth. I understand the frustration, and I don't know how closely you follow this team, but there are signs of change all around.

Sit back and enjoy watching the beginnings of what is a very promising run through the nfl over the next 3 to five or even more seasons.

Mike

TexansFan33
03-02-2009, 01:08 PM
Why do we have to wait?!?!! the Dolphins didnt wait last year (1-15), the Falcons didnt wait(4-12).

Errant Hothy
03-02-2009, 01:10 PM
And what do you purpose genius?! Your obviously ok with not bein taken seriously. So tell me whats your plan? We had way too many turnovers this year we had no pass rush and your saying kubiak had a good year? 8-8 we beat the lions, bengals, packers, jags, bears, browns...... We didnt beat ANYBODY! all those clubs had losing records last year.

Timekiller how sad, how hilariously sad.

So the Bears going 9-7 is just a figmiant of the NFL's imagination. And nicely done leaving the Titans and the Dolphins off your little list. I mean there is no need to mention those teams that won more then 10 games, right?

We beat the teams we were supposed to beat (minus the Oakland) which is the first step any team needs to take that is coming up from a 2-14 season.

You are right that turnovers killed this team last season.

The Pencil Neck
03-02-2009, 01:16 PM
Why do we have to wait?!?!! the Dolphins didnt wait last year (1-15), the Falcons didnt wait(4-12).

So go cheer for them.

If you just go haring off every year after every big name free agent or go trading up to get players you think are once a lifetime guys, then you're not going to end up being the Dolphins or the Falcons, you're going to end up crashing and burning. Like the Browns did last year after a playoff run the year before.

Our front office has a plan and this team has gotten steadily better. If getting better isn't good enough for you then go somewhere else. If you're only going to be satisfied backing teams playing for Super Bowls, then change your allegiance every year. Be a fairweather fan. Go root for the Steelers or the Giants or whoever the flavor is this year.

The bottom line here appears to be that you think this team isn't going anywhere and doesn't have a future. I think this team is going somewhere and does have a future. I think this team is building something that's going to be successful for a long time instead of just a flash in the pan. You don't make desperate moves if you're building something that's going to stand the test of time and what you're talking about smacks of desperation.

TexansFan33
03-02-2009, 01:21 PM
So go cheer for them.

If you just go haring off every year after every big name free agent or go trading up to get players you think are once a lifetime guys, then you're not going to end up being the Dolphins or the Falcons, you're going to end up crashing and burning. Like the Browns did last year after a playoff run the year before.

Our front office has a plan and this team has gotten steadily better. If getting better isn't good enough for you then go somewhere else. If you're only going to be satisfied backing teams playing for Super Bowls, then change your allegiance every year. Be a fairweather fan. Go root for the Steelers or the Giants or whoever the flavor is this year.

The bottom line here appears to be that you think this team isn't going anywhere and doesn't have a future. I think this team is going somewhere and does have a future. I think this team is building something that's going to be successful for a long time instead of just a flash in the pan. You don't make desperate moves if you're building something that's going to stand the test of time and what you're talking about smacks of desperation.

Thats great wanting to build a team. I want the Texans to be successful jus like everyone else in Houston, but reality is that guys dont want to be on an average team and if we are average when it comes time to resign mario demco and those guys without having anything to show for it, like a playoff berth or a division title you think those guys are gonna wanna be on our team?

Texanmike02
03-02-2009, 01:23 PM
I watched most of the games this year and to me we had a good product on the field most of the time. We will see in this years draft if they are serious about winning because I understand we got very lucky with Mario which wasn't a Kubiak decision. Every year I tune into the draft hoping that the Texans will get that game changer and each year i'm let down. In order to build a team you go out and get your special guys that only come once every five drafts and you go get them. Then you start filling in the pieces later I think the Texans are doing that in reverse. Sure we got AJ and Mario but thats was from having 2 terrible years. I honestly think we should trade up in order to get a very high quality player. Kubiak has done OK with two 8-8 years but I think another 8-8 season and he is going to be signing his walking papers. If you think about it we have been trying to put together a defense for a while and it hasn't exactly worked out for us. Kubiak isnt a defensive minded guy, Tomlin just won a superbowl and his defense was the reason he put together a championship defense because he knew how to build one.

Let me offer an alternative theory to your madness.

Step 1:
Draft a player with potential, regardless of where you draft.
Step 2:
Coach him up and integrate him into your system
Step 3:
As he matures, prepare by drafting his successor and coaching him up.
Step 4:
Rinse and repeat

Its worked for teams like the Steelers, Patriots and Colts for years. Problem is it takes a while to get into that position. You have to build your own player pool, which takes 3-5 years, of players that you want, that fit your system. Once you get that started you just keep plugging guys in year after year.

Look at all of the success players that leave the aforementioned teams have after they leave. Oh wait, they don't have much. They aren't drafting the best players out there, they are drafting players which fit a system. You're starting to see the fruits of our labor. Yeah those teams have a few stars, but they weren't considered the "premier" player in the draft with one or two exceptions. Wow, coincidence, AJ and Mario. I'm not comparing us to those franchises just yet, but we're headed in that direction. That's how those teams are able to maintain success. They don't HAVE to draft players in the top 10 and sign them and pay them cap destructive deals. Do it your way and you wind up with a one year wonder and then get stuck in salary cap hell and are struggle to return to the playoffs *cough* 49ers *cough*.


Mike

HOU-TEX
03-02-2009, 01:25 PM
Man, we sure have a lot of johnsonfan's around nowadays. :thinking:

The Pencil Neck
03-02-2009, 01:26 PM
Thats great wanting to build a team. I want the Texans to be successful jus like everyone else in Houston, but reality is that guys dont want to be on an average team and if we are average when it comes time to resign mario demco and those guys without having anything to show for it, like a playoff berth or a division title you think those guys are gonna wanna be on our team?

You're assuming that we're going to be average in the future. And that's where I think you're wrong.

TexansFan33
03-02-2009, 01:27 PM
its not that we dont have the talent I personally dont think we have the right coaches in place. Some guys arent meant to be head coaches.

Texanmike02
03-02-2009, 01:28 PM
You're assuming that we're going to be average in the future. And that's where I think you're wrong.

Texansfan33,

If pencil neck and I agree, one of two things happen. The universe implodes, or we're both right. In this case, the universe has shown no signs of imploding.

Mike

Specnatz
03-02-2009, 01:31 PM
Thats great wanting to build a team. I want the Texans to be successful jus like everyone else in Houston, but reality is that guys dont want to be on an average team and if we are average when it comes time to resign mario demco and those guys without having anything to show for it, like a playoff berth or a division title you think those guys are gonna wanna be on our team?

No, reality is players will go where the money is. Washington has been 5-11, 9-7, and 8-8 and they landed FA. Why becaused they opened the check book.

You can look at the Dolphins and Falcons quick rise but until they sustain it that one season does not mean crap. The Saints did a quick rise when Payton was hired and they signed Brees, but they have not done much since. So that one season is being quickly forgotten.

The Pencil Neck
03-02-2009, 01:31 PM
its not that we dont have the talent I personally dont think we have the right coaches in place. Some guys arent meant to be head coaches.

Oh! So now we FINALLY get to the real issue.

You just want Kubiak out and you don't care if the team is improving or not.

buddyboy
03-02-2009, 01:35 PM
Oh! So now we FINALLY get to the real issue.

You just want Kubiak out and you don't care if the team is improving or not.

I think he wants Casserly back so he can pull out another "once-every-five-years" MW picks. And trade your entire draft away so you can pick JASON BABIN. You're right TexanFan33, trading up to get that player that you really think will be a gamechanger is the way to go.

TexansFan33
03-02-2009, 01:56 PM
I think he wants Casserly back so he can pull out another "once-every-five-years" MW picks. And trade your entire draft away so you can pick JASON BABIN. You're right TexanFan33, trading up to get that player that you really think will be a gamechanger is the way to go.

Look BUDDYBOY thats what you want I dont want Kubiak gone maybe in a lesser role but no head coach, and a product on the field that I can be proud of we haven't had that yet. 8-8 I'm not proud of when I know with the right coach we could have been 11-5, and no im not saying trade all my draft picks away im saying trade up we have never done that i think it was the 04 draft and merriman and demarcus ware went 11 and 12 and we had the 13th pick thats what im talking about! stuff like that those are once every 5 year players and we thought they were just going to fall to us.

Specnatz
03-02-2009, 02:00 PM
Look BUDDYBOY thats what you want I dont want Kubiak gone maybe in a lesser role but no head coach, and a product on the field that I can be proud of we haven't had that yet. 8-8 I'm not proud of when I know with the right coach we could have been 11-5, and no im not saying trade all my draft picks away im saying trade up we have never done that i think it was the 04 draft and merriman and demarcus ware went 11 and 12 and we had the 13th pick thats what im talking about! stuff like that those are once every 5 year players and we thought they were just going to fall to us.

How often do the Steelers trade up?

buddyboy
03-02-2009, 02:03 PM
Look BUDDYBOY thats what you want I dont want Kubiak gone maybe in a lesser role but no head coach, and a product on the field that I can be proud of we haven't had that yet. 8-8 I'm not proud of when I know with the right coach we could have been 11-5, and no im not saying trade all my draft picks away im saying trade up we have never done that i think it was the 04 draft and merriman and demarcus ware went 11 and 12 and we had the 13th pick thats what im talking about! stuff like that those are once every 5 year players and we thought they were just going to fall to us.

As I said before, we HAVE traded up before, and it bit us in the butt. Jason Babin we gave up, if I recall correctly, a second, a third, and a fourth? And for every "merriman and demarcus ware", I can list off names that weren't "once every 5 year players". In fact, let me name off the one who was supposed to be a once in a DECADE player. REGGIE BUSH.

There are no SURE things in the draft. You can say, the Texans should move up and draft that player, because he's going to be something special. And then you can get upset that they didn't. But at the time of the draft, you don't know who and who won't pan out in the NFL.

As for being "proud" of 8-8? No, I'm not "proud" of 8-8, but I've watched and rooted for this team through thick and thin, mostly thin in the Capers/Casserly era. What I AM proud of is the way that the Texans have been building a young, talented team SLOWLY through the draft over the last few years. I don't know why you think that it's "easy" to suddenly jump into contention. Yes, it happens (Atlanta and Miami), but it's rare. You don't want Kubiak as your head coach after two years of completely turning this franchise around? I just don't understand the sense of that. And if you have a problem with how the Texans are drafting, don't blame Kubiak, because Smith has an equal hand in the picks I'm sure.

Errant Hothy
03-02-2009, 02:11 PM
Look BUDDYBOY thats what you want I dont want Kubiak gone maybe in a lesser role but no head coach, and a product on the field that I can be proud of we haven't had that yet. 8-8 I'm not proud of when I know with the right coach we could have been 11-5, and no im not saying trade all my draft picks away im saying trade up we have never done that i think it was the 04 draft and merriman and demarcus ware went 11 and 12 and we had the 13th pick thats what im talking about! stuff like that those are once every 5 year players and we thought they were just going to fall to us.

To pull that off, you would have to needed to jump both Dallas and San Diego. Going by the famous draft pick value chart it would have cost us out 1st, our 3rd and our 4th round picks. Leaving us with just out 5th, 6th and 7the picks; thanks to the P-Burnt trade we had no 2nd that year. Or in other words trading away our whole draft (and th extra third teh nest year which turned into Eric Winston).

So which is it? Do we trade our whole draft for guys like Merriman or Ware as you suggest or do we not trade away our whole draft, as you also say we shouldn't do?

buddyboy
03-02-2009, 02:19 PM
To pull that off, you would have to needed to jump both Dallas and San Diego. Going by the famous draft pick value chart it would have cost us out 1st, our 3rd and our 4th round picks. Leaving us with just out 5th, 6th and 7the picks; thanks to the P-Burnt trade we had no 2nd that year. Or in other words trading away our whole draft (and th extra third teh nest year which turned into Eric Winston).

So which is it? Do we trade our whole draft for guys like Merriman or Ware as you suggest or do we not trade away our whole draft, as you also say we shouldn't do?

And again, Merriman and Ware, while yes, did turn out to be outstanding players, were by no means GUARANTEED to become such. They could have just as easily been busts. In every draft you can say, oh look, we coulda had him and him and him.

dickieb
03-02-2009, 02:56 PM
And what do you purpose genius?! Your obviously ok with not bein taken seriously. So tell me whats your plan? We had way too many turnovers this year we had no pass rush and your saying kubiak had a good year? 8-8 we beat the lions, bengals, packers, jags, bears, browns...... We didnt beat ANYBODY! all those clubs had losing records last year.

Timekiller how sad, how hilariously sad.

Hey Timekiller, I think he meant to spell propose right before he called you a genius - ha ha.

Norg
03-02-2009, 03:12 PM
I didnt like the picking of are backup Qb but whatever hes a backup hopefully Matt can play all 16 games

i hope we dont get cedric benson hes alright but getting to many players for losing teams is not a good idea IMO LOL

The Pencil Neck
03-02-2009, 03:16 PM
I didnt like the picking of are backup Qb but whatever hes a backup hopefully Matt can play all 16 games

i hope we dont get cedric benson hes alright but getting to many players for losing teams is not a good idea IMO LOL

It's balanced by getting Smith from the Cardinals.

Norg
03-02-2009, 03:19 PM
It's balanced by getting Smith from the Cardinals.

yeah but we didnt get benson yet We just talked with him and IMO i seen the Fa RB list and its not that steller Benson with prob be the third most paid RB in FA this year IMO he will not be cheap

anywayz all wee need now is

FS

maybe SS but i think kubes like the rookie Barber

Center

Guard

and a RB

i dare say maybe a CB

and another WR might be iceing on the cake

and we will be set

TimeKiller
03-02-2009, 06:09 PM
And what do you purpose genius?! Your obviously ok with not bein taken seriously. So tell me whats your plan? We had way too many turnovers this year we had no pass rush and your saying kubiak had a good year? 8-8 we beat the lions, bengals, packers, jags, bears, browns...... We didnt beat ANYBODY! all those clubs had losing records last year.

Timekiller how sad, how hilariously sad.

Did you just quote your own sig?

Ok with not being taken seriously? I prefer it. Except I think people can tell when I'm being serious and when I'm killing time. Oh by the way, way to get that joke. I guess now that the last horse has crossed the finish line figuring out the door lock to Fort Knox we can get around to ripping your post apart one word at a time. Let's start with the word purpose, just because it'll be funny.

My purpose is to be the light to your intellectual darkness. The machete to your thicket. Shears to your sheep? Apples? No! Bananas....

My plan? Is to sit back and watch Rick Smith continue to turn a molehill into a mountain this offseason. Then I'll sit back and watch as Negative-Nancy's like yourself douse the whole world in bad analysis and pessimism. Then I'll get up and cheer this team on when they come stompin' into 2009 like a 2-ton bull from hell.

Texanmike02
03-02-2009, 07:18 PM
Did you just quote your own sig?

Ok with not being taken seriously? I prefer it. Except I think people can tell when I'm being serious and when I'm killing time. Oh by the way, way to get that joke. I guess now that the last horse has crossed the finish line figuring out the door lock to Fort Knox we can get around to ripping your post apart one word at a time. Let's start with the word purpose, just because it'll be funny.

My purpose is to be the light to your intellectual darkness. The machete to your thicket. Shears to your sheep? Apples? No! Bananas....

My plan? Is to sit back and watch Rick Smith continue to turn a molehill into a mountain this offseason. Then I'll sit back and watch as Negative-Nancy's like yourself douse the whole world in bad analysis and pessimism. Then I'll get up and cheer this team on when they come stompin' into 2009 like a 2-ton bull from hell.

Watch it buddy, I've been accused of "negative-nancy"ism before. Don't lump all of us together.

Mike

Specnatz
03-02-2009, 07:24 PM
Watch it buddy, I've been accused of "negative-nancy"ism before. Don't lump all of us together.

Mike

I never called you Nancy. :specnatz:

thunderkyss
03-02-2009, 07:56 PM
Starters from draft 1st Raji or if not there 2nd round Ron Brace for DT or even Rashad Jennings. I know this thread will now implode as I suggest not starting Slaton. He will be starter but I could see Jennings getting as many if not more rushes. Slaton should be cut back to lengthen his career and still get plenty of carries in 2nd half as a "fresher back" than last year. I could see Rashad Johnson in 3rd as a free safety that possibly could beat out Wilson in camp. It is possible that Canfield in 4th could beat out Brisiel or Cedric Peerman as a fast bigger Slaton being the starter. Probably not but possible. Just saying.

BJ Raji wouldn't start on this team. Not day one. He might eventually be the starter before the year is over, but he wouldn't be the starter day one.

The only position that was remotely possible, was DE, because of Weaver. Now that he's gone, it ain't gonna happen, not even if we drafted Brian Orakpo.

& I think Kubiak is a fair man. Slaton will start, he earned it. He won't (or IMO shouldn't) be asked to carry the load, and I agree, he needs to get the bulk of his carries after half time.

I actually hoap Kubiak dresses three running backs, I'd like to see more Moats.

Why do we have to wait?!?!! the Dolphins didnt wait last year (1-15), the Falcons didnt wait(4-12).

Remember when we had the #1 overall in 2006? Do you remember who had the second pick in that draft?

TimeKiller
03-03-2009, 08:11 AM
Watch it buddy, I've been accused of "negative-nancy"ism before. Don't lump all of us together.

Mike

Hey, I didn't lump anyone!!! This guy qualifies for his own special sector of baby girl attitude. Like the girl from Willy Wonka:

"I want a golden egg noooowwww daddy."
"Just like the Steelers, huh Faruka?"
"NO! Like the Dolphins and Falcons!!"
"Way to set your sights high, sweetums."
"Waaaaaaaaaaaah, wa wa wa.....WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!"

Errant Hothy
03-03-2009, 08:14 AM
It's Veruca, not Faruka.

Carry on.

mussop
03-03-2009, 09:02 AM
BJ Raji wouldn't start on this team. Not day one. He might eventually be the starter before the year is over, but he wouldn't be the starter day one.

Exactly who would start in front of him? TJ? I dont think so. Even if that were to happen Raji would be in the rotation more than anyone else we've had at that position. It would only improve our unproductive line. If Raji is ther when we pick we would be crazy to pass him up.

Errant Hothy
03-03-2009, 09:07 AM
Exactly who would start in front of him? TJ? I dont think so. Even if that were to happen Raji would be in the rotation more than anyone else we've had at that position. It would only improve our unproductive line. If Raji is ther when we pick we would be crazy to pass him up.

Yeah, because no one has ever heard of a 1st round DT being a bust. I mean they're all automatic Pro-Bowlers their rookie years.

:sarcasm:

The only position that may be harder to predict success for in the NFL then a QB, is a DT. Several are taken in the first round every year, usually 1 within the top 5 picks. Some 1st round DTs become ok NFL players, some become really good, but it seems that most never live up to their potential. Texans fans should know this, as we might have 2 on our roster.

HOU-TEX
03-03-2009, 09:18 AM
when they(Texans) come stompin' into 2009 like a 2-ton bull from hell.

Is it just me, or does this quote sound really cool? Can anybody around here graphically create something of this nature? That would be awesome looking.

Rep for the quote, TimeKiller.

badboy
03-03-2009, 02:49 PM
BJ Raji wouldn't start on this team. Not day one. He might eventually be the starter before the year is over, but he wouldn't be the starter day one.

The only position that was remotely possible, was DE, because of Weaver. Now that he's gone, it ain't gonna happen, not even if we drafted Brian Orakpo.

& I think Kubiak is a fair man. Slaton will start, he earned it. He won't (or IMO shouldn't) be asked to carry the load, and I agree, he needs to get the bulk of his carries after half time.

I actually hoap Kubiak dresses three running backs, I'd like to see more Moats.



Remember when we had the #1 overall in 2006? Do you remember who had the second pick in that draft?We disagree on either Raji or the value of TJ/Okoye or perhaps both. Unfortunately, I think Travis is playing out his contract. I am hopeful Okoye will have a good year, but he needs to come out of TC ready to kick some butt. Can you give me an eval on Moats? I have minimal info as I seldom knew when he was in game.

thunderkyss
03-03-2009, 05:29 PM
Can you give me an eval on Moats? I have minimal info as I seldom knew when he was in game.

I'm in the nose-bleeds, so I had trouble recognizing when he was in the game as well. He's a little fella, like Slaton. & to me, he looks faster. but he doesn't push the pile or keep his feet moving the way Slaton does. Not that Slaton moves piles, or anything, but he's always trying, and usually stays on his feet long enough for someone like Winston to get there and help him along.

Moats also has a bad habit of running East West, and not North South.

My thinking is next year, we're going to see some huge holes, and unless Moats is blind, he's going to have some great opportunities to explode up field.

if he can find where upfield is........ that is.

mussop
03-03-2009, 06:00 PM
I'm in the nose-bleeds, so I had trouble recognizing when he was in the game as well. He's a little fella, like Slaton. & to me, he looks faster. but he doesn't push the pile or keep his feet moving the way Slaton does. Not that Slaton moves piles, or anything, but he's always trying, and usually stays on his feet long enough for someone like Winston to get there and help him along.

Moats also has a bad habit of running East West, and not North South.

My thinking is next year, we're going to see some huge holes, and unless Moats is blind, he's going to have some great opportunities to explode up field.

if he can find where upfield is........ that is.

I totally agree with this assesment. He is very quik. If he can learn how to run in this system he would be a homerun threat every time he gots past the l.o.s. into the open field.