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View Full Version : With DE-Smith signed, who @ 15?


PhilpW
02-28-2009, 04:38 PM
Looks like LB's Cushing or Maybin may be in our sights. Possibly cornerback.

threetoedpete
02-28-2009, 04:44 PM
Cushing and Mathews are my first choices. Move down....Sidbury, Barwin...Engilish, beerlovers guy.


This all assumes that we aren't targeting Micheal Johnson or Tyson Jackson.

Cushing and Mathews are locked and loaded and have the talent to beat out Dilles or Adibi this summer. Both bring pass rush abilities. Just my guess.

rarazz00
02-28-2009, 04:49 PM
We're still gonna try to trade out of 15 for more picks..but if not, and the way it looks right now, Cushing will wear his 1st set of cowboy boots here as a Texan:tiphat:

The1ApplePie
02-28-2009, 04:51 PM
Maclin I'm hoping or Maulauga. I worry about the steroid rumors with Cush.

Just as long as Michael Johnson stays the hell away

J-Russ
02-28-2009, 04:59 PM
Everette Brown, Aaron Maybin, Larry English. Now that we signed a solid starting DE we can afford to get an undersized pass-rushing specialist that has huge potential to be a stud in the future. DE is still my first choice.

I wouldn't mind getting a physical specimen at LB either, like Rey Rey, Sintim, etc.

MojoMan
02-28-2009, 05:10 PM
I guess the question in my mind is at what position do the Texans not currently have a bonafide starting quality player. Or, what position do they NEED a true starting quality player where they do not currently have one.

It is not clear to me were the Texans stand at cornerback. How confident are the Texans about having Dunta Robinson and Fred Bennett as their starters for the next few years? Is Dunta really ready to take on this responsibility after his injury? Is Fred Bennett really a starting quality CB over the intermediate to long term?

A linebacker would be great. But to whatever extent we have a glaring need, I hope we address that in the first round, if possible.

The good news is that after the Antoine Smith signing, it is becoming increasingly difficult to see a glaring need in the Texan's starting lineup.

The1ApplePie
02-28-2009, 05:13 PM
I guess the question in my mind is at what position do the Texans not currently have a bonafide starting quality player. Or, what position do they NEED a true starting quality player where they do not currently have one.

It is not clear to me were the Texans stand at cornerback. How confident are the Texans about having Dunta Robinson and Fred Bennett as their starters for the next few years? Is Dunta really ready to take on this responsibility after his injury? Is Fred Bennett really a starting quality CB over the intermediate to long term?

A linebacker would be great. But to whatever extent we have a glaring need, I hope we address that in the first round, if possible.

The good news is that after the Antoine Smith signing, it is becoming increasingly difficult to see a glaring need in the Texan's starting lineup.

A space eating DT is a big need but Raji will be long gone by 15

Though he is hated on, Reeves is the sure starter at CB, Robinson and Bennett are going for the other spot

Big Lou
02-28-2009, 05:21 PM
So how does everyone think this affects the draft now that we have a "hopefully" legit compliment to Mario?

Here's my thoughts:

1. OLB
2. S
3. Complmentary RB to SS
4. Guard/Center
4. DT or DE Pass Rush Specialist
5. Project QB
6. WR
7. Offensive Line

Sure hope we sign a complimentary back to Steve or a Short Yardage type in FA, so we can get the other in the draft.

MojoMan
02-28-2009, 05:24 PM
A space eating DT is a big need but Raji will be long gone by 15

Though he is hated on, Reeves is the sure starter at CB, Robinson and Bennett are going for the other spot

I am virtually always up for spending high draft picks on defensive linemen. But with Okoye and Johnson, the Texans appear to be set for starters at DT. In fact, I do not believe the Texans staff sees DT as a NEED position, so they are unlikely to spend a first round pick on one this year.

I keep thinking cornerback, if they can get one they believe is worth the pick. But a linebacker would be good too.

In the first round, the four most important positions to look at in my opinion are QB, OT, DE and CB. It is really desirable to have difference makers and dominant players at these four positions. Not that picking one in the first round guarantees you that.

We are set at QB, OT and DE, at least as far as picking in the first round goes. But at CB, I am not so sure that the Texan's are satisfied with what they have here.

Ole Miss Texan
02-28-2009, 05:28 PM
I'm looking at Brian Cushing, Clay Matthews, Alphonso Smith or Jeremy Maclin.

Interested in Sean Smith or Donald Brown in the 2nd round.

I'd prefer:
1st- SLB Cushing/Matthews
2nd- CB/S Sean Smith

The1ApplePie
02-28-2009, 05:31 PM
I am virtually always up for spending high draft picks on defensive linemen. But with Okoye and Johnson, the Texans appear to be set for starters at DT. In fact, I do not believe the Texans staff sees DT as a NEED position, so they are unlikely to spend a first round pick on one this year.

I keep thinking cornerback, if they can get one they believe is worth the pick. But a linebacker would be good too.

In the first round, the four most important positions to look at in my opinion are QB, OT, DE and CB. It is really desirable to have difference makers and dominant players at these four positions. Not that picking one in the first round guarantees you that.

We are set at QB, OT and DE, at least as far as picking in the first round goes. But at CB, I am not so sure that the Texan's are satisfied with what they have here.

DeMeco Ryans needs to be protected from blockers. With bust and flop in front of him last year, he got killed. Either a stud like Maulauga needs to be in the middle or a big DT is needed to soak up blockers.

Not sure about CB, not many impressive prospects this year. I think the Texans may go with more offensive firepower if its BPA

Tailgate
02-28-2009, 05:34 PM
Doesn't really mean much I know.... but in all the mocks I am seeing Maualuga available at 15 more and more these days. Man I can really see myself enjoying watching him play next to former DROY Demeco Ryans.

Ckw
02-28-2009, 05:34 PM
My vote is for either Clay Matthews or B.J. Raji.

Sal Rosenberg
02-28-2009, 05:35 PM
Peria Jerry

PhilpW
02-28-2009, 05:37 PM
Vontae Davis,CB, may be the only secondary player that would be worthy of the 15th pick. B.J.Raji is the only DT to take at 15 and he won't be there. I just don't see us going offense in the first, so it boils down to DE/OLB, if we stay where we are. Very possibly another trade back year.

MojoMan
02-28-2009, 05:39 PM
Vontae Davis,CB, may be the only secondary player that would be worthy of the 15th pick. B.J.Raji is the only DT to take at 15 and he won't be there. I just don't see us going offense in the first, so it boils down to DE/OLB, if we stay where we are. Very possibly another trade back year.

Did you mean CB/OLB?

houstonbola
02-28-2009, 05:42 PM
If Rey Rey is there at 15 do we take and move him or Demeco to the SLB? I just dont see us going DE in the first after this signing, at all?

Tailgate
02-28-2009, 05:45 PM
If Rey Rey is there at 15 do we take and move him or Demeco to the SLB? I just dont see us going DE in the first after this signing, at all?

imo... move Demeco.

PhilpW
02-28-2009, 05:49 PM
Did you mean CB/OLB?
I see it as trade back, V. Davis, cb, or DE/OLB. I put it as DE/OLB to include guys like Maybin, Orakpo, E. Brown, etc.

J-Russ
02-28-2009, 05:50 PM
A space eating DT is a big need but Raji will be long gone by 15

Though he is hated on, Reeves is the sure starter at CB, Robinson and Bennett are going for the other spot

Raji isn't the only huge DT in the draft. You guys shouldn't overlook his teammate, Ron Brace (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/dt/Ron-Brace.php).

Height: 6-3 | Weight: 324 | 40-Time: 5.30
Ron Brace | Boston College Eagles

Strengths:
Excellent size and bulk...Very quick off the snap...Great strength...Is stout at the point of attack...Does a terrific job against the run...Gets a good push up the middle...Will collapse the pocket...A powerful tackler...Shows the ability to shoot gaps and penetrate at times...Nice instincts / awareness...Lots of experience...Improving and has upside.

This would be a great pick up if we pick him up in the 2nd, would be even better if he fell to us in the 3rd round.

Texan JBZ
02-28-2009, 05:56 PM
I say trade down, probably with Atlanta, and gather more picks since the team no longer is in dire straits for a DE. Players like Matthews, Delmas, Sean Smith, Michael Johnson, Max Unger, Peria Jerry, or Darcel McBath will be available at the bottom of the 1st and into the 2nd.

MojoMan
02-28-2009, 05:59 PM
I say trade down, probably with Atlanta, and gather more picks since the team no longer is in dire straits for a DE. Players like Matthews, Delmas, Sean Smith, Michael Johnson, Max Unger, Peria Jerry, or Darcel McBath will be available at the bottom of the 1st and into the 2nd.

Works for me if we get enough from Atlanta for the pick. In your opinion, what should we expect to receive from them exactly?

Sal Rosenberg
02-28-2009, 06:06 PM
Peria Jerry along with Amobi ..eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkk:splits:

PhilpW
02-28-2009, 06:21 PM
Peria Jerry along with Amobi ..eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkk:splits:

That would be an awesome front four:

A. Smith, P. Jerry, A. Okoye, M. Williams

thunderkyss
02-28-2009, 06:33 PM
A space eating DT is a big need but Raji will be long gone by 15

Though he is hated on, Reeves is the sure starter at CB, Robinson and Bennett are going for the other spot

I understand the desire to get a monster at DT, but I do wonder what Kubiak, Smith, and Bush really want in that position. For the years they've been here, and with all the DTs they've brought in, only Okam has the physical size to be that kind of guy.

But, I totally agree. Reeves is the only bonafide starter we've got playing the CB position right now.

Blake
02-28-2009, 06:33 PM
So should I go ahead and pre-order my Harvin jersey? j/k

I could see them taking a player like Jerry, Matthews, or CB still depending on Dunta's situation.

Who do I want them to take??? Rey Rey

Goatcheese
02-28-2009, 06:43 PM
I don't see that the Smith signing changes anything. They still need a pass rush. Smith kicks inside to DT on passing downs, so they're still going to need a pass rushing DE.

JayCee
02-28-2009, 06:48 PM
one FA signing that will change things for us is the Chiefs getting Cassel, that's potentially one less player available for us as they won't be taking a QB anymore (as some mocks suggest).

i hope we still go after Ayers in the 2nd.

Spled
02-28-2009, 07:21 PM
How about trading down and selecting Clint Sintim and acquiring an extra 3rd round pick in the process?

MojoMan
02-28-2009, 07:40 PM
How about trading down and selecting Clint Sintim and acquiring an extra 3rd round pick in the process?

The Arizona Cardinals have the 31st overall pick. Maybe we could trade with them.

Texan JBZ
02-28-2009, 07:46 PM
Works for me if we get enough from Atlanta for the pick. In your opinion, what should we expect to receive from them exactly?


Good ol Moj! I say two picks Moj, a third and a sixth this year, or a third this year and a third next year. Moving down nine slots in the first round should at least bring in two picks. What do you think about that?

MojoMan
02-28-2009, 07:50 PM
Good ol Moj! I say two picks Moj, a third and a sixth this year, or a third this year and a third next year. Moving down nine slots in the first round should at least bring in two picks. What do you think about that?

That would be spectacular. Given the choice, I would think a third rounder this year and next would be great, if we could get it.

Also, since Arizona just lost one of their starting defensive ends, maybe they want to trade up to pick a replacement. They have the 31st overall pick.

Either way, I like the trade down option a lot.

LonerATO
02-28-2009, 07:53 PM
Cushing and Mathews are my first choices. Move down....Sidbury, Barwin...Engilish, beerlovers guy.


This all assumes that we aren't targeting Micheal Johnson or Tyson Jackson.

Cushing and Mathews are locked and loaded and have the talent to beat out Dilles or Adibi this summer. Both bring pass rush abilities. Just my guess.

Looks like I found some else who likes Sidbury and I think we could get him in the 3rd. Was listening to the radio today and they had Clay Matthews on and he just blew me away. I hope that is the player we pick at 15, because he came off in the interview as a worker and a bad ass

LonerATO
02-28-2009, 08:01 PM
I'm looking at Brian Cushing, Clay Matthews, Alphonso Smith or Jeremy Maclin.

Interested in Sean Smith or Donald Brown in the 2nd round.

I'd prefer:
1st- SLB Cushing/Matthews
2nd- CB/S Sean Smith

I like where your head is at

4Texans
02-28-2009, 10:28 PM
I'm looking at Brian Cushing, Clay Matthews, Alphonso Smith or Jeremy Maclin.

Interested in Sean Smith or Donald Brown in the 2nd round.

I'd prefer:
1st- SLB Cushing/Matthews
2nd- CB/S Sean Smith

Nice selection you got there OMT.:goodpost:

Maddict5
02-28-2009, 10:47 PM
i think we'll do 2 things:

either stay at 15 and take maybin/sintim/cushing ie.. an olb that can also drop down to RDE on 3rd and long


or take the top ranked safety preferably after a trade down

beerlover
03-01-2009, 12:15 AM
Texans trade down & take Clay Mathews, OLB/DE or Darius Butler, CB.

Ole Miss Texan
03-01-2009, 01:03 AM
I like Ron Brace but not as a player for this team. He's a run stuff only. As much as I want a guy that can tie up two offensive linemen, we're gonna be sending the DL on every play just about. Brace isn't that kind of linemen. I see him as a mid 2nd rd pick maybe late but will get picked early by one of the 3-4 teams to groom as a NT. Just my thoughts but I don't see us taking Brace, I just assume give Okam more playing time.

Peria Jerry could actually be a great fit. It sounds like Antonio Smith is good at bumping inside on 3rd and long situations. I wouldn't be against having a line like Jerry-Smith-Okoye-Mario on passing downs if thats what it comes down to. I think Jerry is going to be a great pro. If he slips into the 20's, some team will be getting a steal.

mussop
03-01-2009, 03:42 AM
Texans trade down & take Clay Mathews, OLB/DE or Darius Butler, CB.

Hell I would be happy with those 2 and no trade down. I think Mathews versatility and upside make him worty of 15. Not to mention that versatility covers 2 of our biggest needs. OLB and DE. Hes really a good fit for this team.

Butler would be an absolute steal at 46.

BattleRedToro
03-01-2009, 10:55 AM
I like Ron Brace but not as a player for this team. He's a run stuff only. As much as I want a guy that can tie up two offensive linemen, we're gonna be sending the DL on every play just about. Brace isn't that kind of linemen. I see him as a mid 2nd rd pick maybe late but will get picked early by one of the 3-4 teams to groom as a NT. Just my thoughts but I don't see us taking Brace, I just assume give Okam more playing time.

Peria Jerry could actually be a great fit. It sounds like Antonio Smith is good at bumping inside on 3rd and long situations. I wouldn't be against having a line like Jerry-Smith-Okoye-Mario on passing downs if thats what it comes down to. I think Jerry is going to be a great pro. If he slips into the 20's, some team will be getting a steal.

Picking Peria Jerry would an even bigger luxury pick than picking any of the DE's. Jerry is a 3-technique Defensive Tackle just like Okoye, TJ, and now on passing downs Smith.

Do the Texans really need another of these type of players, and the salary that will come with being a 1st Rd selection?

Even if you start him in place of TJ, I wouldn't expect it to work very well because the opponents would just run up the middle on the Texans all day long.

I know some people have this idea that just because Kollar and Bush want their Defensive Lineman to penetrate that it means the Texans don't need a big bodied NT. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Texans still need a big bodied NT, they just need one that can move.

I'm hoping that with Kollar's instruction that Okam can eventually improve into this role. He has the big body, and he can move as well, so he fits the description. Time will tell if he improves enough to get the roll.

The1ApplePie
03-01-2009, 02:20 PM
If we really want to run a penetrating defense, then Rey Rey needs to be the pick and moved inside. DeMeco is near perfect but like Ray Lewis, he is not good at taking on blockers.

I don't see Amobi panning out too well and passing on Willis and Beason hurts now more than ever. Not sure if Amobi would even have been a first round pick the previous draft or this one

nunusguy
03-01-2009, 02:38 PM
This is gonna make a really entertaining & exciting Texans Draft, though the 2006 Texans Draft would be very difficult to beat in those terms. But this is different.
With a DLineman being signed first in FA, then with our new backup QB signed no telling who we take ? But we are not in a position where we don't need to reach for anything - so good chance the first round pick will be BPA.

bah007
03-01-2009, 03:07 PM
Doesn't really mean much I know.... but in all the mocks I am seeing Maualuga available at 15 more and more these days. Man I can really see myself enjoying watching him play next to former DROY Demeco Ryans.

He is falling in mocks because a lot of teams that interviewed him weren't attracted to his attitude.

That doesn't mean he is a bad guy or anything, they just couldn't decide if he was just a carefree guy or an immature one.

bah007
03-01-2009, 03:11 PM
I say trade down, probably with Atlanta, and gather more picks since the team no longer is in dire straits for a DE. Players like Matthews, Delmas, Sean Smith, Michael Johnson, Max Unger, Peria Jerry, or Darcel McBath will be available at the bottom of the 1st and into the 2nd.

Sure McBath will be available in the second round but who is gonna take him there?

threetoedpete
03-03-2009, 03:44 PM
So how does everyone think this affects the draft now that we have a "hopefully" legit compliment to Mario?

Here's my thoughts:

1. OLB
2. S
3. Complmentary RB to SS
4. Guard/Center
4. DT or DE Pass Rush Specialist

5. Project QB
6. WR
7. Offensive Line

Sure hope we sign a complimentary back to Steve or a Short Yardage type in FA, so we can get the other in the draft.

Let us know how that Fourth rounder works out next October. I'll believe it when I see it. The scouts hit one Mr. McNair should send the scouts and their wives on an all expenses paid vacation to Tahiti.

Texecutioner
03-03-2009, 03:47 PM
Maclin I'm hoping or Maulauga. I worry about the steroid rumors with Cush.

Just as long as Michael Johnson stays the hell away

Amen to all of that except for the Maclin thing. We have to get a defensive guy in the 1st. Don't want anything to do with Michael Johnson.

I think Maulauga would be our best bet for sure, but he won't be there most likely. I too, worry about the steroid rumors with Cushing. Don't want a guy like that.

Mr teX
03-03-2009, 04:28 PM
Somebody will fall & my guess is it'll probably be micheal johnson just b/c they say there's too much bad tape out on him. If Rey Rey & or Andre Smith don't show well at their respective pro days this month, then it gets interesting b/c Rey was already a borderline top 10 pick & Andre Smith continues to shoot himself in the foot.

I'm all for mauluga if he's there just b/c i think he's one of those guys who plays faster than his 40 would indicate. If they insist on not drafting Johnson, then we need to trade down & pick up Matthews.

WolverineFan
03-03-2009, 04:30 PM
If Jenkins is not available then trade back and take a DB, preferably D.J. Moore or Alphonso Smith.

MojoMan
03-03-2009, 05:14 PM
Since Benson has signed with the Bengals, I am expecting us to start with a cornerback, but outside linebacker and running back will be priorities as well. I would still not be the least bit surprised to see a free agent running back signed before the draft, but probably not as big a name as Benson.

1. CB
2. OLB
3. RB
4. OL (or DL)
4. DL (or OL)
5. TE (blocking)
6. FS
7. Who knows

badboy
03-03-2009, 05:19 PM
I like Ron Brace but not as a player for this team. He's a run stuff only. As much as I want a guy that can tie up two offensive linemen, we're gonna be sending the DL on every play just about. Brace isn't that kind of linemen. I see him as a mid 2nd rd pick maybe late but will get picked early by one of the 3-4 teams to groom as a NT. Just my thoughts but I don't see us taking Brace, I just assume give Okam more playing time.

Peria Jerry could actually be a great fit. It sounds like Antonio Smith is good at bumping inside on 3rd and long situations. I wouldn't be against having a line like Jerry-Smith-Okoye-Mario on passing downs if thats what it comes down to. I think Jerry is going to be a great pro. If he slips into the 20's, some team will be getting a steal.Brace or Raji stuff the run which is exactly what we have been missing AND collapse the pocket which could help keep Super Mario from getting doubled. Peria will not do that. He is another Okoye type. Brace had 2 QB sacks last season. We just need to keep the extra guy off Mario and maybe get in the QB's face a time or two to keep him from running away from Williams.

All of your LB, DE, Safeties, CBs, etc do nothing to stop the run. We now have a DE to help Mario. We should get a RB to increase red zone scoring. The only priority left mentioned by coaches is stopping the run. Okoye did not do that. TJ did not do that. Okam rarely did that (hope for him this season) and Mario did not stop the run.

You got basically 2 guys possible in draft. Raji and Brace. Other guys are needed but not for priority position.

Ole Miss Texan
03-03-2009, 05:23 PM
Brace is a run stuffer only. He will not collapse the pocket and will not get in the backfield. While Peria Jerry may be Amobi Okoye, Ron Brace is Frank Okam. Raji can do both, Brace can do one.

MojoMan
03-03-2009, 05:34 PM
Brace is a run stuffer only. He will not collapse the pocket and will not get in the backfield. While Peria Jerry may be Amobi Okoye, Ron Brace is Frank Okam. Raji can do both, Brace can do one.

We already have Okoye and Okam. And we are not going to get Raji.

I don't understand why you guys think the Texans might want to draft a DT in the first round. Don't get me wrong, I have been in favor of every first round DL pick the Texans have made up until now, except for Jason Babin. But the coaches like Travis Johnson at one DT, and it is too soon to give up on Amobi Akoye. Okoye played well as a rookie after being drafted #10 overall, slacked off last year in a classic sophomore slump, and will turn 22 years old in June of this year. Also, Frank Okam is just entering his second year.

I really cannot imagine how the Texans would want to spend their top pick on a defensive tackle this year. The team has other needs, and they have spent a lot of top draft picks on defensive lineman over the last few years. Our current guys are not busts by any means. Perhaps we should try and show a little patience with our defensive tackles.

threetoedpete
03-04-2009, 01:26 AM
Texans trade down & take Clay Mathews, OLB/DE or Darius Butler, CB.

And prey Miami doesn't jump you and fill a need position for them....a will with some pass rush abilities. I'm sure the tuna is watching the same guys we're watching. Mathews is a tuna kind of guy. I could live with Butlers numnbers....can never have too many corners correct ? But you can only play three at a time. Defiantly send Petie packing.

Big Poundcake
03-04-2009, 02:29 AM
Cushing or Malcolm Jenkins(if he's available) at #15.

threetoedpete
03-04-2009, 03:25 AM
Somebody will fall & my guess is it'll probably be micheal johnson just b/c they say there's too much bad tape out on him. If Rey Rey & or Andre Smith don't show well at their respective pro days this month, then it gets interesting b/c Rey was already a borderline top 10 pick & Andre Smith continues to shoot himself in the foot.

I'm all for mauluga if he's there just b/c i think he's one of those guys who plays faster than his 40 would indicate. If they insist on not drafting Johnson, then we need to trade down & pick up Matthews.


If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, flies like a duck ....it's probably a duck. Rey is an inside guy. Great college player.....But the other two USC guys are flying by him for a reason.

The two guys who have probably fallen the most post combine is Maybin and Jenkins. And Andre Smith needs to have a monster proday. He's young. And he appears to be immature. There's no denying he is a road grader. It's gong to come down to can he convince the scouts and GMs how badly he wants it?
Or if he wants it at all.

beerlover
03-04-2009, 03:55 AM
I'm staying w/English @ 15 :foottap:

I'm telling you Larry could be dynamic @ SLB positon in this scheme, standing up or off the edge in three point stance. the Texans need his particular skill set, great first step, cat quick can drop his hips & go, excellent frame to grow & get only stronger absolute beast, disruptive in backfield. looks like a NFL LB right now! Maybe that coveted RDE later- http://www.mockmydraft.com/images/2009/larry_english.jpg

BattleRedToro
03-04-2009, 07:45 AM
Since Benson has signed with the Bengals, I am expecting us to start with a cornerback, but outside linebacker and running back will be priorities as well. I would still not be the least bit surprised to see a free agent running back signed before the draft, but probably not as big a name as Benson.

What about Deuce McAllister? The Deuce is loose.:kingkong::texflag:

MojoMan
03-04-2009, 08:48 AM
What about Deuce McAllister? The Deuce is loose.:kingkong::texflag:

Benson would have been a good add. Most of the rest look like reaches for us, as many are on the downside of their careers, or they just don't fit into our system. If we are going to bring in McAllister, we might as well invite Ahman Green in for another go at the same time.

We only have two RB's on the roster right now. They will bring at least six into camp. W are going to have to sign a number of people, including free agents, draft picks, and undrafted free agents.

TexansFan33
03-04-2009, 09:26 AM
If somehow andre smtih fell to us @ 15 would ya'll want to get him over say a brian cushing or a rey malauga?

BigBull17
03-04-2009, 09:32 AM
I'm staying w/English @ 15 :foottap:

I'm telling you Larry could be dynamic @ SLB positon in this scheme, standing up or off the edge in three point stance. the Texans need his particular skill set, great first step, cat quick can drop his hips & go, excellent frame to grow & get only stronger absolute beast, disruptive in backfield. looks like a NFL LB right now! Maybe that coveted RDE later- http://www.mockmydraft.com/images/2009/larry_english.jpg

I'm very much a fan of English. WOuld be a great pick.


If somehow andre smtih fell to us @ 15 would ya'll want to get him over say a brian cushing or a rey malauga?

Zero chance. He in no way fits what we do, blocking wise.

TexansFan33
03-04-2009, 09:46 AM
Larry English sure forces alot of fumbles. That's a plus. The Vertical just shows how explosive this guy really is.




40 time: 4.77
Broad Jump: 8'11"
Vertical: 36" (7th best DL or 4th best LB)
Bench Reps: 24
3-Cone Drill: 7.26 (7th best DL)
20-yard Shuttle: 4.38 (4th best DL)

bah007
03-04-2009, 09:54 AM
Larry English sure forces alot of fumbles. That's a plus. The Vertical just shows how explosive this guy really is.




40 time: 4.77
Broad Jump: 8'11"
Vertical: 36" (7th best DL or 4th best LB)
Bench Reps: 24
3-Cone Drill: 7.26 (7th best DL)
20-yard Shuttle: 4.38 (4th best DL)

His vertical is impressive.

But the vertical jump isn't a test of football power if you ask me. Rarely is a football player exploding up like that unless it is a WR or DB going for a jump ball.

The broad jump is a better indication of football power. Basketball players explode up (vertical) but football players explode forward (broad jump).

Mr teX
03-04-2009, 10:06 AM
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, flies like a duck ....it's probably a duck. Rey is an inside guy. Great college player.....But the other two USC guys are flying by him for a reason.

The two guys who have probably fallen the most post combine is Maybin and Jenkins. And Andre Smith needs to have a monster proday. He's young. And he appears to be immature. There's no denying he is a road grader. It's gong to come down to can he convince the scouts and GMs how badly he wants it?
Or if he wants it at all.


Some scouts speculated Mauluga might be able to play OLB, but most knew he'd more than likely be playing mlb in the NFL & in that regard he's still a great prospect to keep an eye on at 15. The only reason the other 2 USC guys are flying by him is b/c he pulled his hammy at the combine & didn't get to finish as opposed to the other 2 imo. Demeco's done a great job for us at MLB, but when we drafted him we didn't have the luxury to sit back & see him play in his natural sam lb position. As good as he's been in the middle for us, it's really scary to think that he might be better on the edge If we found someone that could replace him in the middle. Mauluga could be that guy.

i don't think it'd be a slight towards Meco if we moved him back to his natural area on the outside. He could still be the leader of the defense & it just might benefit him more in his contract negotiations with us if he were moved & he started making more plays as a result.

El Tejano
03-04-2009, 10:39 AM
I'll pass on Maclin. He gets hurt alot. I understand that he is pretty polished and most likely will not have to come in and make an impact on our team right away but I think you can get a guy to do what he would do on our team in the later rounds.

A few mentioned that with the A Smith signing the needs are not as glaring anymore. Our defense was ranked pretty low last year. So there are defensive needs. However, there was one thing our defense showed us, it was the more athletic the linebackers the better our defense became. This was evident when Adibi played, and then the drop off was clear when he didn't play against the Raiders. So if we can get a pass rushing LB that has good cover skills and he's there at #1 you take him. Our current depth doesn't dictate that he contribute right away but he can and most likely will.

The other part that has me concerned is the RB depth. I'm the first guy to say that Steve Slaton will be awesome this year but all we know of now is that he had a great rookie season. There have been sophmore seasons in the past that didn't do as well as their rookie seasons. Not only that but we are going to go up against some pretty good defenses this year and if Slaton proves to not be a one year wonder, we need someone to spell him. Even in a back up role, this guy could get alot of carries. If a Shonn Greene is available or Knowshawn Moreno (my overall favorite) then I wont get mad at this kind of pick up.

CB/DBs - there just isn't anyone that wows me to take at #15. If we trade down, I'm all about a CB/DB.

Polo
03-04-2009, 11:01 AM
Some scouts speculated Mauluga might be able to play OLB, but most knew he'd more than likely be playing mlb in the NFL & in that regard he's still a great prospect to keep an eye on at 15. The only reason the other 2 USC guys are flying by him is b/c he pulled his hammy at the combine & didn't get to finish as opposed to the other 2 imo. Demeco's done a great job for us at MLB, but when we drafted him we didn't have the luxury to sit back & see him play in his natural sam lb position. As good as he's been in the middle for us, it's really scary to think that he might be better on the edge If we found someone that could replace him in the middle. Mauluga could be that guy.

i don't think it'd be a slight towards Meco if we moved him back to his natural area on the outside. He could still be the leader of the defense & it just might benefit him more in his contract negotiations with us if he were moved & he started making more plays as a result.

SAM isn't really his natural position...

According to him he's played MLB all of his life with the exception of playing it because they needed him to at Alabama. Kubiak and Demeco have both expressed strong feelings about not wanting him to move outside, so he might not be all on board with that move.

Mr teX
03-04-2009, 11:07 AM
SAM isn't really his natural position...

According to him he's played MLB all of his life with the exception of playing it because they needed him to at Alabama. Kubiak and Demeco have both expressed strong feelings about not wanting him to move outside, so he might not be all on board with that move.

ahh..did not know that...good looking out. I guess it then becomes known quantity vs. unknown.

mussop
03-04-2009, 11:31 AM
His vertical is impressive.

But the vertical jump isn't a test of football power if you ask me. Rarely is a football player exploding up like that unless it is a WR or DB going for a jump ball.

The broad jump is a better indication of football power. Basketball players explode up (vertical) but football players explode forward (broad jump).

You think his verticle is impressive?? Jaron Gilbert At 6-5, 288 pounds ran a 4.81 40-yard dash at the combine and vertical jumped 35 1/2 inches. He also became a YouTube sensation by jumping out of a swimming pool. Yes the pool had water in it if you havent seen the video. I posted it awhile back.

bah007
03-04-2009, 11:38 AM
You think his verticle is impressive?? Jaron Gilbert At 6-5, 288 pounds ran a 4.81 40-yard dash at the combine and vertical jumped 35 1/2 inches. He also became a YouTube sensation by jumping out of a swimming pool. Yes the pool had water in it if you havent seen the video. I posted it awhile back.

I've seen it. It's impressive.

Honestly, unless a guy is a WR, TE, or DB, I don't care how high he can jump.

Show me his broad jump numbers. That gives me a better indication of his power moving forward.

El Tejano
03-04-2009, 11:39 AM
You think his verticle is impressive?? Jaron Gilbert At 6-5, 288 pounds ran a 4.81 40-yard dash at the combine and vertical jumped 35 1/2 inches. He also became a YouTube sensation by jumping out of a swimming pool. Yes the pool had water in it if you havent seen the video. I posted it awhile back.

That's insane.

swtbound07
03-04-2009, 02:03 PM
i thought, and still think its william moore.

threetoedpete
03-04-2009, 03:22 PM
Looks like I found some else who likes Sidbury and I think we could get him in the 3rd. Was listening to the radio today and they had Clay Matthews on and he just blew me away. I hope that is the player we pick at 15, because he came off in the interview as a worker and a bad ass



Lawrence Sidbury Richmond 6-2 266, 35 3/8 arm 10 3/4 hands 4.64 forty 28 Bench

Call me crazy but I'd like to see that chasing down stuff sideline to sideline.

source Scouts inc. post combine numbers.

http://cfn.scout.com/2/841851.html

threetoedpete
03-04-2009, 03:29 PM
I've seen it. It's impressive.

Honestly, unless a guy is a WR, TE, or DB, I don't care how high he can jump.

Show me his broad jump numbers. That gives me a better indication of his power moving forward.

That's a pretty bold statement. I've always considered how far and how high a guy jumps....at any position on the field, a direct indication how explosive a player is....at any position....and how strong he is....at any position. When the numbers match...you've got a pretty sure bet. When they don't...pretty safe bet you've got a problem there....at any position. Do you really want to take a full back or an offensive guard who isn't explosive with the first step. Or a DT? You're pretty hot on Raji correct ? Battles along the o-line are one and lost with the first step. Better get the most explosive players you can lay your hands on. I assume that is why you're targeting Raji ?

threetoedpete
03-04-2009, 03:50 PM
That's insane.

Yeah the Kid went from being a "take a chance project guy for the fourth round"....to a bunch of barracudas thinking he might just be the next Buck Buchanan.

http://www.nfl.com/players/buckbuchanan/profile?id=BUC158204

And there's the Wolf in New England sitting there with a couple of seconds...and an aging Richard Seymore on the roster. Gonna be a hoot to see who takes the guy.

Jarron Gilbert SJSt. 6-6 288 36 3/4 AL, 10 3/4 hands, 4.87 40, 28 bench


the kid made himself some money at the combine.

threetoedpete
03-04-2009, 04:33 PM
SAM isn't really his natural position...

According to him he's played MLB all of his life with the exception of playing it because they needed him to at Alabama. Kubiak and Demeco have both expressed strong feelings about not wanting him to move outside, so he might not be all on board with that move.

You can keep throwing the pearls at them if you wish. The man love is building . We've seen it before. And there will be no stopping it until April 24th.

threetoedpete
03-04-2009, 04:34 PM
i thought, and still think its william moore.

Move him to Will backer ?

steelbtexan
03-04-2009, 05:16 PM
My favorite LB that might re there when we draft is Barwin

The 2 guys with the most potential are Sidbury & Gilbert. IMO

If Smithiak want one of them they better be willing to take them in the 2nd rd.

mussop
03-04-2009, 05:29 PM
i thought, and still think its william moore.

Did you just wake up from hybernation???

bah007
03-04-2009, 06:36 PM
That's a pretty bold statement. I've always considered how far and how high a guy jumps....at any position on the field, a direct indication how explosive a player is....at any position....and how strong he is....at any position. When the numbers match...you've got a pretty sure bet. When they don't...pretty safe bet you've got a problem there....at any position. Do you really want to take a full back or an offensive guard who isn't explosive with the first step. Or a DT? You're pretty hot on Raji correct ? Battles along the o-line are one and lost with the first step. Better get the most explosive players you can lay your hands on. I assume that is why you're targeting Raji ?

If a guy only has a 6 inch vertical then that's a problem. But I really don't care about the difference between a 35 & 37 inch vertical for a defensive lineman.

We aren't talking basketball. The vertical is a test of power, but it is a test of upward power. The broad jump is a test of forward power, which is a better test for football players.

About Raji, I wouldn't say I'm hot for him. I think he is a good prospect, but if I'm "hot" for anyone it is Orakpo.

Blake
03-04-2009, 07:00 PM
I think he is a good prospect, but if I'm "hot" for anyone it is Orakpo.

Amen brother! :heart:

Aaron
03-04-2009, 07:15 PM
If a guy only has a 6 inch vertical then that's a problem. But I really don't care about the difference between a 35 & 37 inch vertical for a defensive lineman.

We aren't talking basketball. The vertical is a test of power, but it is a test of upward power. The broad jump is a test of forward power, which is a better test for football players.

About Raji, I wouldn't say I'm hot for him. I think he is a good prospect, but if I'm "hot" for anyone it is Orakpo.

If Orakpo miraculously falls to 15 do you take him even with the signing of Antonio Smith???

otisbean
03-04-2009, 07:19 PM
If a guy only has a 6 inch vertical then that's a problem. But I really don't care about the difference between a 35 & 37 inch vertical for a defensive lineman.

We aren't talking basketball. The vertical is a test of power, but it is a test of upward power. The broad jump is a test of forward power, which is a better test for football players.

About Raji, I wouldn't say I'm hot for him. I think he is a good prospect, but if I'm "hot" for anyone it is Orakpo.

As a strength coach I can tell you you are kind of splitting hairs with the whole "upward" vs "forward" power thing. Typically athletes that can put up big numbers in either jump are explosive period.

If you want to look at specific power for football look at 10 yd and 20 yd splits and you'll have all the info you'll need.

BTW, I'd be happy with either Raji or Orakpo:)

pbat488
03-04-2009, 07:21 PM
With the 15th pick this year, there are so many different ways the Texans can take this that it's nearly impossible to predict, so I will just say what I would like to happen...

Depending on who is still on the board... trade down with Detroit to #20 and pick up their 3rd or 4th, whichever they're willing to give us... at #20, we then take either Matthews or Jenkins if he's still on the board, and if not, we try to trade the #20 pick to New England for their #34 pick and then switch our 2nd 3rd rounder with their last second rounder.. While I know this series of events has a .0001% chance of ever happening, I would love for it to happen, because then we would have 3 2nd round picks, enabling us to pick up one of the solid second tier LBs like Barwin or possibly English if he's still on the board; also we could go after Sean Smith, and then if everything in this hypothetical draft falls our way, pick up Max Unger with the last 2nd rounder.

I don't want to even attempt to predict what we're going to do in the second day so I won't try, but I hope we take a flyer on Gartrell Johnson from CSU.

Please remember this is completely hypothetical and I know this is never going to happen, but it would be great if it did, at least in my opinion.

The Pencil Neck
03-04-2009, 10:54 PM
If Orakpo miraculously falls to 15 do you take him even with the signing of Antonio Smith???

If Orakpo drops to 11 or 12, you go up and get him.

ThruThick&Thin
03-05-2009, 01:10 AM
Its too difficult to predict precisely who will fall to whom, so I've been reading everyone's posts and the draft database with this question in my mind for almost a sense of sanity:

Which players can we all here agree upon to be gone in the first 14?

I would like to think Kubiak and the war room will take THE BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE no matter what position, however we all agree that the Texans can use a spark on D to give us a lil bit sharper teeth.




MY OWN OPINION THUS FAR:

Trade down for Ayers. =) I don't like the idea of linebackers anyways, its true they like Adibi and Zak. They can get another LB somewhere much later for cheaper. Its the same situation with a RB. We have a lot of people at corner, so i dont think you take a CB here either.

You don't need a tackle; is there a guy out there who plays all the O-line positions? Maybe look at him? Safety is a waste of a pick if they aren't a proven headhunter (See Sean Taylor, Ed Reed) otherwise you can grow one in a farm of a program.

What's left? Certainly not a QB in any higher than the round we received in compensation for Sage. A WR like Percy would be good, especially if we got a steal in the 3rd round for a RB. Slaton + Percy + Boss Hog.



AYERS OR HARVIN MATES:pirate::pirate::pirate::pirate: EITHER WAY ITS A TRADE DOWN & PILLAGE~ :kingkong:

threetoedpete
03-05-2009, 03:43 AM
As a strength coach I can tell you you are kind of splitting hairs with the whole "upward" vs "forward" power thing. Typically athletes that can put up big numbers in either jump are explosive period.

If you want to look at specific power for football look at 10 yd and 20 yd splits and you'll have all the info you'll need.

BTW, I'd be happy with either Raji or Orakpo:)

Bull dung. Shovel that some where else please.

BattleRedToro
03-05-2009, 06:32 AM
If I remember correctly, the Texans drafted DeMeco to play WILL, not SAM, but that doesn't really matter anymore because from everything I have read about him, there is almost zero chance that the Texans will actually move him from his current position as MIKE.

Even if your proposed move makes sense, you are just wasting your time suggesting it, because the Texans will never do it.

Personally, I think if the Texans could find a great MIKE in free agency, that they should take him and move DeMeco to the WILL, and then draft a SAM with their first, but I accept that this will never happen, so I don't waste my time thinking about it anymore.

otisbean
03-05-2009, 11:41 AM
Bull dung. Shovel that some where else please.

I am not sure I follow what you mean? Are you saying there is a significant difference between vertical and broad jump in showing power, or are you disagreeing with the importance of 10 and 20 yd splits?

76Texan
03-05-2009, 12:39 PM
I think this draft is very fluid as far as BPA at #15 goes.
There's no telling who will be available there.

Those who wants a big DT in the middle would be tempted by Raji.
However, I don't think the Texans are ready to count out Okam yet.
(I can't believe he's listied at 342 lbs at HT.com)

Those who wants pass rush would have to consider Orakpo, Everett Brown or Michael Johnson. I don't think the Texans will be looking for a DE in the first round though.

A case can be made for those who wants another monster at LB.
I don't think it matters that much about the position. We'll be in plenty of nickle and dime packages besides the LB blitzes. Mauluga or Cushing or Maybin... The coaches will make it work. (I don't study enough on the LBs so I don't know who's worth #15.)

I think the Texans will draft a safety as well as a CB.
In that scenario, I can see them trade back to get one late in the first and the other early in the second (or thereabout.)
As much as I like another stud LB, if we can find 2 long-term starters in the D-backfield, I'd say go for it!

Polo
03-05-2009, 01:04 PM
There is no way I'd move Demeco to Will at this point. If I'm the Texans I'm giving Adibi as many chances as I can to succeed.

Ole Miss Texan
03-05-2009, 01:47 PM
I don't like the idea of linebackers anyways, its true they like Adibi and Zak. They can get another LB somewhere much later for cheaper.

Its the same situation with a RB.

We have a lot of people at corner, so i dont think you take a CB here either.

You don't need a tackle; is there a guy out there who plays all the O-line positions? Maybe look at him?

Safety is a waste of a pick if they aren't a proven headhunter (See Sean Taylor, Ed Reed) otherwise you can grow one in a farm of a program.

What's left? Certainly not a QB in any higher than the round we received in compensation for Sage.

A WR like Percy would be good, especially if we got a steal in the 3rd round for a RB. Slaton + Percy + Boss Hog.


Well using your line of thought, we have 2 great WRs with Andre Johnson and Kevin Walter. Andre Davis has a decent sized contract and David Anderson was just given a raise. No need to address WR in the 1st round because we can get a #3 in later rounds and groom him in.

TE? nobody worth the 15th. Daniels is a stud and Dreesen is a good back up.

FB? nope we got a great one with Leach.

DL? WE've got DE pretty much shored up, a pass rusher may be found later. We've already spent high picks on our DTs and our rotation looks good.

All this tells me that we shouldn't select anyone in the 1st round and skip it all together!! :whip:

badboy
03-05-2009, 02:22 PM
Well using your line of thought, we have 2 great WRs with Andre Johnson and Kevin Walter. Andre Davis has a decent sized contract and David Anderson was just given a raise. No need to address WR in the 1st round because we can get a #3 in later rounds and groom him in.

TE? nobody worth the 15th. Daniels is a stud and Dreesen is a good back up.

FB? nope we got a great one with Leach.

DL? WE've got DE pretty much shored up, a pass rusher may be found later. We've already spent high picks on our DTs and our rotation looks good.

All this tells me that we shouldn't select anyone in the 1st round and skip it all together!! :whip:I am open to Atlanta's #25 + a 3rd and 5th. I'd then trade 25th to Detroit for a 2nd and 4th and then we have no 1st and everybody's HAPPY!.

Ole Miss Texan
03-05-2009, 03:17 PM
I am open to Atlanta's #25 + a 3rd and 5th. I'd then trade 25th to Detroit for a 2nd and 4th and then we have no 1st and everybody's HAPPY!.
That would be great! I'm actually starting to think if we can get a couple more FA signings that, if nothing else, provide good depth... I'd like to trade down for a 1st in next years' draft. Who with, I don't know. But I'd love to trade our 1st this year for an early to mid 2nd round pick and then pick up that team's 1st round pick in the 2010 draft.

badboy
03-05-2009, 03:22 PM
That would be great! I'm actually starting to think if we can get a couple more FA signings that, if nothing else, provide good depth... I'd like to trade down for a 1st in next years' draft. Who with, I don't know. But I'd love to trade our 1st this year for an early to mid 2nd round pick and then pick up that team's 1st round pick in the 2010 draft.Now you talking, but..Kube's really need's to have a very good year and he will probably want picks this year.

pbat488
03-05-2009, 05:23 PM
That would be great! I'm actually starting to think if we can get a couple more FA signings that, if nothing else, provide good depth... I'd like to trade down for a 1st in next years' draft. Who with, I don't know. But I'd love to trade our 1st this year for an early to mid 2nd round pick and then pick up that team's 1st round pick in the 2010 draft.

Do that with the Lions, trading #15 for their second rounder and next years 1st rounder, then take Eric Berry or Taylor Mays with their pick.. there's a very small chance the Lions improve so much they aren't within the top 10 picks next year.. might have to throw something else on our end in to even out the trade a little though, maybe a 3rd, I lost that value chart so I can't equate it exactly.

Ole Miss Texan
03-05-2009, 05:26 PM
Do that with the Lions, trading #15 for their second rounder and next years 1st rounder, then take Eric Berry or Taylor Mays with their pick.. there's a very small chance the Lions improve so much they aren't within the top 10 picks next year.. might have to throw something else on our end in to even out the trade a little though, maybe a 3rd, I lost that value chart so I can't equate it exactly.

That's exactly what I would want to happen.

76Texan
03-05-2009, 05:50 PM
That's exactly what I would want to happen.

Nothing should be set in stone, now, OleMiss! :devilpig:

Watch that young guy who play opposite Michael Johnson.
#91 Derrick Morgan, Soph, 6'4 - 270 lbs.
7 sacks, same as MJ with 3 more solos and 2 more assists.

You never know.

There might be other guys who can emerge! :devilpig:

ThruThick&Thin
03-05-2009, 06:56 PM
I hope they don't get involved with Michael Johnson.

If you take any D-line, TRADE DOWN and take Ayers. He's proven that not only is he an end, he can move inside and REALLY cause havoc. He also proved he could pick balls at the combine.

Who else showed something like this? Forget Michael Johnson's 40 time, I think we should pick a beast like this man and allow him to do his thing. Allow him to congregate with the boys we have like demeco, bulman, and really get the gang goin.

You really can't beat a big, pissed off D-lineman especially if he has hands in a division with Peyton? I REALLY HOPE, they trade down.

:kingkong::kingkong:

Ole Miss Texan
03-05-2009, 07:44 PM
I hope they don't get involved with Michael Johnson.

If you take any D-line, TRADE DOWN and take Ayers. He's proven that not only is he an end, he can move inside and REALLY cause havoc. He also proved he could pick balls at the combine.
Who else showed something like this? Forget Michael Johnson's 40 time, I think we should pick a beast like this man and allow him to do his thing. Allow him to congregate with the boys we have like demeco, bulman, and really get the gang goin.

To play devil's advocate, Michael Johnson does a very good job of getting his hands up in the passing lane and intercepting or deflecting the pass.

I like Ayers as well and would have been a fan of trading down and taking him in the 20's. However, he kind of reminds me of Antonio Smith... they may be fairly similar. For better or worse I don't know.

BattleRedToro
03-05-2009, 09:32 PM
TE? nobody worth the 15th. Daniels is a stud and Dreesen is a good back up.


Since you state that no TE is worth #15, when should Brandon Pettigrew, Jared Cook, and Cornelius Ingram go, and in what order?

Ole Miss Texan
03-05-2009, 11:15 PM
Since you state that no TE is worth #15, when should Brandon Pettigrew, Jared Cook, and Cornelius Ingram go, and in what order?

I havn't studied the TEs very much, if at all. Most likely Pettigrew goes first. There's a whole list of players I'd take over him for the Texans though.

bah007
03-05-2009, 11:25 PM
Since you state that no TE is worth #15, when should Brandon Pettigrew, Jared Cook, and Cornelius Ingram go, and in what order?

My projections:

Pettigrew - 1st
Cook - 2nd
Coffman - late 2nd/early 3rd
Nelson - 3rd
Casey - 3rd
Beckum - late 3rd/early 4th
Ingram - 4th

Ole Miss Texan
03-05-2009, 11:43 PM
My projections:

Pettigrew - 1st
Cook - 2nd
Coffman - late 2nd/early 3rd
Nelson - 3rd
Casey - 3rd
Beckum - late 3rd/early 4th
Ingram - 4th

My gut tells me Pettigrew will be off the board first of all the TEs in either the 20's range or early 2nd just because of how the boards fall for teams. What's the deal with Kansas City and Anthony Gonsalez? I ask because I know not.

TexansSeminole
03-05-2009, 11:45 PM
My gut tells me Pettigrew will be off the board first of all the TEs in either the 20's range or early 2nd just because of how the boards fall for teams. What's the deal with Kansas City and Anthony Gonsalez? I ask because I know not.

I don't think Pettigrew will get out of the first round. He has one really interesting thing going for him and that is blocking. He is a great blocker on the edge, and for a playoff team he provides too much value to pass up in the late first round. He almost becomes another tackle out there blocking on the edge. Any team that runs a stretch play, like the Colts, will value Pettigrew.

threetoedpete
03-06-2009, 01:16 AM
Since you state that no TE is worth #15, when should Brandon Pettigrew, Jared Cook, and Cornelius Ingram go, and in what order?

Pettigrew shouldn't get out of the first.... Jared Cook would be a very good pick for the cowboys...you would figure a Free Saftey for them ....but 4.5 tight ends don't come down the pike very often.

Ingram has everyting except game film in '08. So it will come down to which group of baracudas like him the most....and who's goint to gamble a third first after they've hit two needs.


MHO. Another guy not on your list...Team like the chiefs...So. Miss TE, Sean Nelson, has the same tools Owen had when he came out....the pancaking of Rey in the senoir bowl practice has him on everyones radar. Long lean guy...going to be a couple of years before he really lights it up ...very high celing though. willing blocker with very soft hands.

BattleRedToro
03-06-2009, 06:51 AM
My projections:

Pettigrew - 1st
Cook - 2nd
Coffman - late 2nd/early 3rd
Nelson - 3rd
Casey - 3rd
Beckum - late 3rd/early 4th
Ingram - 4th

I think there is a good possibility that Ingram is the 3rd or 4th TE picked.
I could also see Cook maybe slipping into the 1st Rd, and possibly even past Pettigrew, whom I'm sure is a 1st Rd pick.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Texans pick another TE in this draft, perhaps in the 3rd Rd, especially if the Texans trade down and pick up another 3rd Rd pick.

I know everyone says the Texans are set at TE with Daniels, but they forget that when he was in Denver, Kubiak liked to run alot of 2 TE packages, and therefore if the Texans are able to acquire a TE that they feel would fit those packages better than Joel Dreessen, then I think they will.

badboy
03-06-2009, 09:36 AM
I hope they don't get involved with Michael Johnson.

If you take any D-line, TRADE DOWN and take Ayers. He's proven that not only is he an end, he can move inside and REALLY cause havoc. He also proved he could pick balls at the combine.

Who else showed something like this? Forget Michael Johnson's 40 time, I think we should pick a beast like this man and allow him to do his thing. Allow him to congregate with the boys we have like demeco, bulman, and really get the gang goin.

You really can't beat a big, pissed off D-lineman especially if he has hands in a division with Peyton? I REALLY HOPE, they trade down.

:kingkong::kingkong:Earlier this year I had Ayers mocked with him continuously moving up. Now here is my question and why I no longer have him or any DE on my board. We just gave whole bunch of money to start Smith opposite Mario. Is this team strong enough that we can begin to put first round picks at back up? You did not say you would select him in 1st but that is what I read. He would be great value in 2nd but again do we need a back up this high? I am a big fan but if we trade down significantly, is DE backup or FS or LB or CB or Offensive line back up the choice? With last 4 one could argue a #1 draft pick might beat out the incumbant, especially at LB. If Robert Ayers is on our team, I will be pleased. Who knows? Ayers might beat out the projected new starter and then we can start 2nd guessing management again.

threetoedpete
03-06-2009, 10:41 AM
So just out of curiosity.....How much does the signing of AS move up the Sack total from 32.....or whatever the int. bar was in 08 how much do they go up in '09 ? Both should go up shouldn't they under your thoughts....We've got AS, we're canging schemes, therefore...we shouldn't take either a linebacker nor a DE until later ? Is that it ? In As you trust...there is no need to bring in any more talent?

Got guys like Elerby and McRath on the board....probably go late. But do you want either of thses two guys starting for you come September ? There are only so many of these guys on the board who can bring some pass rush....and be creditable contributors for '09. Blink and they are gone.

ThruThick&Thin
03-06-2009, 12:09 PM
I suppose he would appear as a backup on paper, However I propose taking a man like Ayers due to the fact that we can take out Akoye or Johnson or even Bulman. Not only can we keep our DT's fresh, we can stunt much like Tennessee and other teams do by swapping our big hogs up front into different spots.

I really like Ayers because of his Diversity, and I think we shouldn't feel as if we have to have this guy be a dedicated DE. By adding him, we add a stout kid who can stuff the run and even slip back and hide in some shallow coverage.

A LB would make sense to most madden players because they have to have 4 Dline and 3 LB make up their front 7, but I really think we should trade down.

Maybe not go Ayers, but trade down~~~:fans:

HOU-TEX
03-06-2009, 12:23 PM
The more I think about players worthy of the 15th pick the more I pray Raji slips to us.

QB - No way
WR - No way
RB - No way
TE - No way
OT - Highly doubtful
DE - Highly doubtful
MLB - No way
OLB - Good chance, but at 15? Cushing scares the crap out of me. Too early for Mathews.
SS - Possibility, but who?
CB - Good chance, but again, who?
DT - Possibility, but is anyone other than Raji worth the 15th? Perry? Brace?

I think this might be the 1st draft that I haven't a clue of who we might target in the 1st round. IMO, if we end up stuck with the 15th we're going to end up reaching.

badboy
03-06-2009, 12:38 PM
So just out of curiosity.....How much does the signing of AS move up the Sack total from 32.....or whatever the int. bar was in 08 how much do they go up in '09 ? Both should go up shouldn't they under your thoughts....We've got AS, we're canging schemes, therefore...we shouldn't take either a linebacker nor a DE until later ? Is that it ? In As you trust...there is no need to bring in any more talent?

Got guys like Elerby and McRath on the board....probably go late. But do you want either of thses two guys starting for you come September ? There are only so many of these guys on the board who can bring some pass rush....and be creditable contributors for '09. Blink and they are gone.I'll respond 'though I am unsure you addressed this to me. We can use a great player in draft @ every position including QB, but is that what we should do? Each of us have opinions on what we see as strengths & weaknesses. For me, I try to listen to what team officials have said and how that lines up with what I see. This helps to rule out smoke screens thrown up by team on what they will do.

The need for another DE across from Mario was not about the new DE getting huge sack numbers, rather to put pressure on QB and take pressure off Williams. If SMith gets 8 sacks and Mario gets his, fantastic. If Smith gets 4 sacks but pressures the QB into mistakes or allows Mario to drastically increase his total, SMith earns his $. I do not see LB, DE or CB as a need position in 1st round. If you or others do, cool.

On my new mock (after Smith), I want Raji in 1st with Daniel Holtzman LB with the Sage 4th. If no Raji and we get a trade down, I am open to a LB depending on who else is available.

badboy
03-06-2009, 12:48 PM
I suppose he would appear as a backup on paper, However I propose taking a man like Ayers due to the fact that we can take out Akoye or Johnson or even Bulman. Not only can we keep our DT's fresh, we can stunt much like Tennessee and other teams do by swapping our big hogs up front into different spots.

I really like Ayers because of his Diversity, and I think we shouldn't feel as if we have to have this guy be a dedicated DE. By adding him, we add a stout kid who can stuff the run and even slip back and hide in some shallow coverage.

A LB would make sense to most madden players because they have to have 4 Dline and 3 LB make up their front 7, but I really think we should trade down.

Maybe not go Ayers, but trade down~~~:fans:I really like Ayers but only as a DE not Dt to replace any of our guys. He is only 272 and can add a few but i do not see him beating out either TJ or Okoye. His speed and strength as a DE can get him to QB but not serve him well @ tackle.

badboy
03-06-2009, 01:05 PM
The more I think about players worthy of the 15th pick the more I pray Raji slips to us.

QB - No way
WR - No way
RB - No way
TE - No way
OT - Highly doubtful
DE - Highly doubtful
MLB - No way
OLB - Good chance, but at 15? Cushing scares the crap out of me. Too early for Mathews.
SS - Possibility, but who?
CB - Good chance, but again, who?
DT - Possibility, but is anyone other than Raji worth the 15th? Perry? Brace?

I think this might be the 1st draft that I haven't a clue of who we might target in the 1st round. IMO, if we end up stuck with the 15th we're going to end up reaching.Well said and has been my stance for long time. Jenkins, Orakpo and Raji have all been mentioned as possibly falling and if there, we grab either. IMO Raji, Jenkins and then Orakpo. I am concerned we may be forced to over draft or get stuck with a trade down that is not equitable to the Duane Brown trade.

threetoedpete
03-06-2009, 01:20 PM
Well said and has been my stance for long time. Jenkins, Orakpo and Raji have all been mentioned as possibly falling and if there, we grab either. IMO Raji, Jenkins and then Orakpo. I am concerned we may be forced to over draft or get stuck with a trade down that is not equitable to the Duane Brown trade.

So which DT do you cut come September ?

If they are fortunate enough to have a chance at Orakpo....whether he fits or not....I'll be surprised if they pass on the guy. The Signing of AS was a beginning in my book. Not the end. between the two....eleven sacks ? That's champioship range. 'Course you could be correct and they're slumming for 9-7 and saving thier contracts..?

I will be very interesting watching Jenkins...at his speed, covering Reggie Wayne from the corner back position twice a year . all the bitching about Faggins the last four years and you guys want to go out pell mell and draft another one ?

bah007
03-06-2009, 01:24 PM
So which DT do you cut come September ?

If they are fortunate enough to have a chance at Orakpo....whether he fits or not....I'll be surprised if they pass on the guy. The Signing of AS was a beginning in my book. Not the end. between the two....eleven sacks ? That's champioship range. 'Course you could be correct and they're slumming for 9-7 and saving thier contracts..?

I will be very interesting watching Jenkins...at his speed, covering Reggie Wayne from the corner back position twice a year . all the bitching about Faggins the last four years and you guys want to go out pell mell and draft another one ?

So Jenkins runs a 4.53 and he goes from being the undisputed #1 CB to being as bad as Faggins?

Looks like someone is placing just a little bit too much stock in the 40 yd dash. You've probably seen some tape of him. I have to. That's what I'm going by.

threetoedpete
03-06-2009, 01:47 PM
So Jenkins runs a 4.53 and he goes from being the undisputed #1 CB to being as bad as Faggins?

Looks like someone is placing just a little bit too much stock in the 40 yd dash. You've probably seen some tape of him. I have to. That's what I'm going by.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1134748&postcount=7

they call that there thingy reaching...4.53 is pretty good....for a safety. Faster in the back seven, not slower.

bah007
03-06-2009, 02:01 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1134748&postcount=7

they call that there thingy reaching...4.53 is pretty good....for a safety. Faster in the back seven, not slower.

So Jenkins looks great on tape and runs a 4.53 and he is Faggins?

Davis looks poor on tape and runs a 4.49. He must not even be NFL material right?

threetoedpete
03-06-2009, 02:13 PM
So Jenkins looks great on tape and runs a 4.53 and he is Faggins?

Davis looks poor on tape and runs a 4.49. He must not even be NFL material right?

Easy solution there bah....don't take one in the first round..... You can always coach up a knuckle head.....they don't put speed pills in bottles yet. You're drafting a guy who on the next level is already at his ceiling and has no where to go but down. do I think he was a great college player sure...do I think he is going to get killed locked one on one with Reggi Wayne or Hines Ward for that matter....absloutely.

badboy
03-06-2009, 02:31 PM
So which DT do you cut come September ?

If they are fortunate enough to have a chance at Orakpo....whether he fits or not....I'll be surprised if they pass on the guy. The Signing of AS was a beginning in my book. Not the end. between the two....eleven sacks ? That's champioship range. 'Course you could be correct and they're slumming for 9-7 and saving thier contracts..?

I will be very interesting watching Jenkins...at his speed, covering Reggie Wayne from the corner back position twice a year . all the bitching about Faggins the last four years and you guys want to go out pell mell and draft another one ?Wow ! Where to begin?" Let's start with Jenkins
http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=87746&SPID=10408&DB_OEM_ID=17300&ATCLID=1059260&Q_SEASON=2008TIMED AT 4.35.

Everyone at all positions ran slower than expected. For two years at the end of the college season, Jenkins was consider the leading CB. Sure some receivers may blow by him as they did Dunta and Reeves. How do our current CBs match up with Wayne? I think you are the only one that will call Jenkins another Faggins.

If we get Raji or Brace, Zgonina is gone and we can put the least perfomring DT in TC on IR such as DelJuan Robinson. I have lost faith in TJ and young or not Okoye needs to step it up as is his 3rd year. I think he will if he remains healthy. Raji or Brace, Okoye, TJ, Okam are the 4 DTs.

I am ok with another DE on day one such as Orakpo or Ayers, I just have my board set up differently. If we got Raji @ 15 or even Brace later in 1st and picked Ayers in 2nd, I am ok as lon as we get a RB and ILB day 2.

HOU-TEX
03-06-2009, 02:32 PM
So which DT do you cut come September ?

If they are fortunate enough to have a chance at Orakpo....whether he fits or not....I'll be surprised if they pass on the guy. The Signing of AS was a beginning in my book. Not the end. between the two....eleven sacks ? That's champioship range. 'Course you could be correct and they're slumming for 9-7 and saving thier contracts..?

I will be very interesting watching Jenkins...at his speed, covering Reggie Wayne from the corner back position twice a year . all the bitching about Faggins the last four years and you guys want to go out pell mell and draft another one ?

I don't think Zgonina has been retained. No need to cut any DTs.

So Jenkins runs a 4.53 and he goes from being the undisputed #1 CB to being as bad as Faggins?

Looks like someone is placing just a little bit too much stock in the 40 yd dash. You've probably seen some tape of him. I have to. That's what I'm going by.

Personally, the way things are going with the pro days and from what I've read about the Combine 40 times, I'm about ready to discard the Combine results.

Here are a few notable players that have had their pro days. Has anyone ever seen such a large difference between the 2? I do understand players will be faster and more comfortable on their own turf, but damn.

Matt Shaughnessy DE - Combine = 4.91 Pro day = 4.86
William Moore S - Combine = 4.53 Pro day = 4.4
Rashad Jennings RB - Combine = 4.61 Pro day = 4.52
Michael Bennett DE - Combine = 5.02 Pro day = 4.86
Mike Goodson RB - Combine = 4.54 Pro day = 4.43

Screw the Combine 40

Maddict5
03-06-2009, 03:03 PM
i still kinda hope we take a DE like brown especially or orakpo. then on 3rd down have smith inside, mario at LE and brown at RE.. plus he can rotate with smith and mario can be moved around.

the only loserif we do this is either bulman or okoye (if bulman moves inside)

PhilpW
03-06-2009, 03:16 PM
... I am concerned we may be forced to over draft or get stuck with a trade down that is not equitable to the Duane Brown trade.

My concern as well, but after 15 the following teams don't really have a QB to speak of:Jets(17), Bears(18), Bucs(19), Lions(20). If either Matthews or Sanchez is available at 15, we may get some interesting offers for that spot.

ubecool454
03-06-2009, 03:25 PM
Cushing and Mathews are my first choices. Move down....Sidbury, Barwin...Engilish, beerlovers guy.


This all assumes that we aren't targeting Micheal Johnson or Tyson Jackson.

Cushing and Mathews are locked and loaded and have the talent to beat out Dilles or Adibi this summer. Both bring pass rush abilities. Just my guess.

I personally think that Matthews is a reach. He won't beat out Adibi or a healthy Diles. I just hope we don't even go the LB route in the first because, I still feel we need another young athletic speedy pass rusher. I like Maybin and Everette Brown and Orakpo but I think Orakpo and Brown will be gone by the time we pick.

threetoedpete
03-06-2009, 03:31 PM
i still kinda hope we take a DE like brown especially or orakpo. then on 3rd down have smith inside, mario at LE and brown at RE.. plus he can rotate with smith and mario can be moved around.

the only loserif we do this is either bulman or okoye (if bulman moves inside)

I'm thinking the same but better would be to rotatate him out on third and longs and slip the back up guys in and let them earn their oats. Keep those twenty seven year old legs fresh all the way till the end of December.

Orakpo is a consensus top five by all the gurus. Seen him fall close to us once. Not good for the home town guy. Would love to have him on the squad.

threetoedpete
03-06-2009, 03:37 PM
I don't think Zgonina has been retained. No need to cut any DTs.



Personally, the way things are going with the pro days and from what I've read about the Combine 40 times, I'm about ready to discard the Combine results.

Here are a few notable players that have had their pro days. Has anyone ever seen such a large difference between the 2? I do understand players will be faster and more comfortable on their own turf, but damn.

Matt Shaughnessy DE - Combine = 4.91 Pro day = 4.86
William Moore S - Combine = 4.53 Pro day = 4.4
Rashad Jennings RB - Combine = 4.61 Pro day = 4.52
Michael Bennett DE - Combine = 5.02 Pro day = 4.86
Mike Goodson RB - Combine = 4.54 Pro day = 4.43

Screw the Combine 40


Hmmm, so just how fast would that make the wide receivers and the linebackers ? Inquiring minds wish to know....

NFL is going to love that. Their equipment was shot at the combine...ut ooh.

threetoedpete
03-06-2009, 03:40 PM
I personally think that Matthews is a reach. He won't beat out Adibi or a healthy Diles. I just hope we don't even go the LB route in the first because, I still feel we need another young athletic speedy pass rusher. I like Maybin and Everette Brown and Orakpo but I think Orakpo and Brown will be gone by the time we pick.

well in that case just take Lumas or Jenkins and be done with it. safe picks....give you some production.

so, since the clocks were broken at the combine, and we can now throw out those numbers, do you like Maybin better at 235 or 250 ? inquiring minds wish to know.

TexansSeminole
03-06-2009, 03:50 PM
well in that case just take Lumas or Jenkins and be done with it. safe picks....give you some production.

so, since the clocks were broken at the combine, and we can now throw out those numbers, do you like Maybin better at 235 or 250 ? inquiring minds wish to know.

I don't really like Maybin for our team. He just doesn't fit anywhere IMO. I'd rather have Brown if I am going for an undersized DE. I don't really consider Orakpo to be undersized but if he is there I am interested in him as well.

TexansSeminole
03-06-2009, 03:53 PM
I personally think that Matthews is a reach. He won't beat out Adibi or a healthy Diles. I just hope we don't even go the LB route in the first because, I still feel we need another young athletic speedy pass rusher.

I agree 100%. Don't really see an OLB worth the #15 pick and I am not a fan of Clay Matthews or Brian Cushing.

Ole Miss Texan
03-06-2009, 04:01 PM
I'm thinking the same but better would be to rotatate him out on third and longs and slip the back up guys in and let them earn their oats. Keep those twenty seven year old legs fresh all the way till the end of December.

I'm kind of confused here pete. So you're suggesting we take Brown or Orakpo, if available, play them on the DL and then rotate them OUT in passing situations? So what back ups do you want in there on 3rd and longs? I'm not so sure their strong points are defending against the run. So you want to take their primary strength (pass rushing) and not use it by keeping them on the sidelines? Inquiring minds wish to know.

badboy
03-06-2009, 05:09 PM
My concern as well, but after 15 the following teams don't really have a QB to speak of:Jets(17), Bears(18), Bucs(19), Lions(20). If either Matthews or Sanchez is available at 15, we may get some interesting offers for that spot.We will just trade Sage to them for a 2nd round pick.

badboy
03-06-2009, 05:12 PM
Hmmm, so just how fast would that make the wide receivers and the linebackers ? Inquiring minds wish to know....

NFL is going to love that. Their equipment was shot at the combine...ut ooh.I heard on some report that it was the new field they were running on.

Maddict5
03-06-2009, 05:20 PM
I'm kind of confused here pete. So you're suggesting we take Brown or Orakpo, if available, play them on the DL and then rotate them OUT in passing situations? So what back ups do you want in there on 3rd and longs? I'm not so sure their strong points are defending against the run. So you want to take their primary strength (pass rushing) and not use it by keeping them on the sidelines? Inquiring minds wish to know.

hes talking about taking antonio smith out on 3rd and long for bulman etc ('27 yr old legs').. apparently you need to be rested if you're over 25 :)

JayCee
03-06-2009, 05:21 PM
this guy has us taking Wells....


Tried to sign Cedric Benson in free agency. Wells could be the big back to complement Steve Slaton.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f11fb9&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

although this has 0% of happening, i'll be pretty disappointed if we did this.

Maddict5
03-06-2009, 05:21 PM
I heard on some report that it was the new field they were running on.

the wrs ran on the same field the cbs did

PhilpW
03-07-2009, 08:56 AM
We will just trade Sage to them for a 2nd round pick.

I was thinking one of those teams may want to trade up to our spot at 15.

beerlover
03-07-2009, 11:03 AM
its apparently going to be next to impossible to agree on just one player who will- one, be available? two fill our most pressing need? three, bpa? :headhurts:

PHAROAH
03-07-2009, 12:21 PM
If we had to choose between DE-Aaron Maybin, OLB-Brian Cushing & CB-Malcolm Jenkins at #15 who would be the best value choice? I think if CB-Malcolm Jenkins fell to #15 I think that we have to solidify our secondary because Jacques Reeves is horrible and Dunta Robinson is still angry about being franchised.

ChampionTexan
03-07-2009, 12:39 PM
its apparently going to be next to impossible to agree on just one player who will- one, be available? two fill our most pressing need? three, bpa? :headhurts:

Well if it makes you feel any better, it's really only two things, since if they qualify on the third thing, it's a pretty good bet they'll qualify on the first thing.:)

The Pencil Neck
03-07-2009, 01:21 PM
If we had to choose between DE-Aaron Maybin, OLB-Brian Cushing & CB-Malcolm Jenkins at #15 who would be the best value choice? I think if CB-Malcolm Jenkins fell to #15 I think that we have to solidify our secondary because Jacques Reeves is horrible and Dunta Robinson is still angry about being franchised.

I don't think Maybin is even in the conversation.

I don't care about Dunta being angry. That's just bidness.

I think it would be a tough call between Jenkins and Cushing but I think I'd go Jenkins. I think he has a higher value.

bah007
03-07-2009, 01:29 PM
I don't think Maybin is even in the conversation.

I don't care about Dunta being angry. That's just bidness.

I think it would be a tough call between Jenkins and Cushing but I think I'd go Jenkins. I think he has a higher value.

I have Jenkins #9 on my board and Cushing is #13.

I agree Maybin wouldn't even be in the picture. I have him at #24. I like him, but his bust potential is through the roof I think.

threetoedpete
03-08-2009, 01:20 PM
I'm kind of confused here pete. So you're suggesting we take Brown or Orakpo, if available, play them on the DL and then rotate them OUT in passing situations? So what back ups do you want in there on 3rd and longs? I'm not so sure their strong points are defending against the run. So you want to take their primary strength (pass rushing) and not use it by keeping them on the sidelines? Inquiring minds wish to know.

He asked specifically about Orkapo and Brown. and what I was trying to post: the only way we get Orakpo is by spending a whole lot of draft capitol....Highly unlikely

If it is Brown....I would think that for what they paid for Antoinio Smith...Antionio is your starter. Having Brown rotating with Smith wouldn't be a bad thing. Neither would Sidbury......or Corner Barwin....Or English... or Maybin....at 235 to 240. Film says Maybin still has the best first step in the class.

You can always drop Antonio inside on third and long. My thought on that is the back ups, like Bulman, made enough of a jump last year....you wouldn't be losing a lot by taking Smith out for a blow on third and long situations. Bringing in Everett Brown (or who ever) with Bulman playing inside on the long situations.

All of this assumes that Brown will fall, which he won't....and we get an offer for the fifteen so we can move back for the others. Which would make the gamble on any of the others more palatable. Just going on what they did with Duane last year....they monkeyed with it for seven years and then finally bang the hole last year.

I haven't given up hope on one of the first step guys...stuborn I guess. Gotta find eight more sacks from some where.

Lucky
03-08-2009, 01:56 PM
...I would think that for what they paid for Antoinio Smith...Antionio is your starter. Having Brown rotating with Smith wouldn't be a bad thing. Neither would Sidbury......or Corner Barwin....Or English... or Maybin....at 235 to 240. Film says Maybin still has the best first step in the class.

You can always drop Antonio inside on third and long. My thought on that is the back ups, like Bulman, made enough of a jump last year....you wouldn't be losing a lot by taking Smith out for a blow on third and long situations. Bringing in Everett Brown (or who ever) with Bulman playing inside on the long situations.
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. And it was cogent enough to give you rep. Despite your relentless phrase, "bang the hole".

I do not believe that Antonio Smith is an Anthony Weaver clone. Because I think Smith can play, and Weaver cannot. But, Smith isn't going to give the Texans a pass rush off the edge. The Texans still need that.

Fortunately, this draft has a plethora of DE/OLB hybrids that can be found in practically every round. I wouldn't mind seeing the Texans take 2 in this draft. Like the "Wildcat" was to NFL offenses in '08, I see the blurring of traditional defensive fronts with the use of multiple hybrid defenders to be the big trend in '09.

mussop
03-08-2009, 02:45 PM
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. And it was cogent enough to give you rep. Despite your relentless phrase, "bang the hole".

I do not believe that Antonio Smith is an Anthony Weaver clone. Because I think Smith can play, and Weaver cannot. But, Smith isn't going to give the Texans a pass rush off the edge. The Texans still need that.

Fortunately, this draft has a plethora of DE/OLB hybrids that can be found in practically every round. I wouldn't mind seeing the Texans take 2 in this draft. Like the "Wildcat" was to NFL offenses in '08, I see the blurring of traditional defensive fronts with the use of multiple hybrid defenders to be the big trend in '09.

And you will see teams go to no huddle to keep these guys on the sidelines rendering them useless.

Lucky
03-08-2009, 03:00 PM
And you will see teams go to no huddle to keep these guys on the sidelines rendering them useless.
If the offense makes substitutions in a no huddle, the defense must be allowed the time to make their changes. That was from a rule interpretation by the head of officiating, a couple of seasons ago. If an offense wants to stay in a base package, the defense will likely do the same.

mussop
03-08-2009, 03:22 PM
If the offense makes substitutions in a no huddle, the defense must be allowed the time to make their changes. That was from a rule interpretation by the head of officiating, a couple of seasons ago. If an offense wants to stay in a base package, the defense will likely do the same.

I thought you were speaking of teams bringing in special packages in certain situations, like a DL of speedy hybrids to rush the passer in passing situations. I was just saying that teams would counter succesfull schemes like that by going no huddle to keep them off the feild. Not sure I understand what you are saying.

Lucky
03-08-2009, 03:31 PM
Not sure I understand what you are saying.
If offenses wish to go no huddle to hinder defensive substitutions, they will have to go with the 11 they have on the field. Going no huddle will curtail special defensive packages, but at the cost of limiting the offense's flexibility.

rollinstone18
03-08-2009, 06:00 PM
I'm hoping Jenkins falls to us. He'd be a great value pick, whether he plays CB or FS.

steelbtexan
03-08-2009, 08:28 PM
Best case senario is a trade down from 15 to 25. Last year we did this & got a 3rd & a 6th

Rd1 Barwin
Rd2 Sidbury
Rd3 Baker
Rd3 Wood
Rd4 Hamlin
Rd4 A. Brown

Dapper
03-08-2009, 08:57 PM
i'm all up into jenkins @ 15. could be our difference maker in the secondary as a fs. i say grab him if he is there fo sho!

mexican_texan
03-09-2009, 01:14 AM
Could Larry English play in a 4-3?

threetoedpete
03-09-2009, 02:50 AM
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. And it was cogent enough to give you rep. Despite your relentless phrase, "bang the hole".


I'm thinking here of what ships carpenters do when the boat springs a leak....now as to what inference you take from it.... will say I've been married to the same woman since 1984.

badboy
03-09-2009, 11:20 AM
I was thinking one of those teams may want to trade up to our spot at 15.
I created another mock over the weekend that should interest you. I think the trades involved are good for all teams and not far fetched. Give me your feed abck, please. Steve

beerlover
03-09-2009, 11:26 AM
Could Larry English play in a 4-3?

RDE/SLB - http://nfldraft.footballjabber.com/story.php?title=video---niu-de-larry-english-career-highlight-video-part-1

thunderkyss
03-09-2009, 07:27 PM
wouldn't it be something, if we do trade down, & pick up Robert Ayers, and a couple extra picks?

Think about it.

We've needed a pass rush for years. Every year, we make a move or two, and while it's different, we still don't have a true pass rush. This year, the only move we've made, is signing Antonio Smith.

Imagine Smith is everything we thought he would be, and we sign Ayers, and he's all that as well.

mexican_texan
03-10-2009, 12:00 AM
wouldn't it be something, if we do trade down, & pick up Robert Ayers, and a couple extra picks?

Think about it.

We've needed a pass rush for years. Every year, we make a move or two, and while it's different, we still don't have a true pass rush. This year, the only move we've made, is signing Antonio Smith.

Imagine Smith is everything we thought he would be, and we sign Ayers, and he's all that as well.
I'd go for it, it worked for us last year. I like Ayers and Tyson Jackson out of LSU as pass rushers, and I wonder how well Larry English could fit in here, we can get any of those guys by trading down.

dalemurphy
03-10-2009, 01:17 AM
wouldn't it be something, if we do trade down, & pick up Robert Ayers, and a couple extra picks?

Think about it.

We've needed a pass rush for years. Every year, we make a move or two, and while it's different, we still don't have a true pass rush. This year, the only move we've made, is signing Antonio Smith.

Imagine Smith is everything we thought he would be, and we sign Ayers, and he's all that as well.


I'm for almost any trade down scenario. That being said, we've done a lot already this year to improve the pass rush:

1. Antonio Smith
2. fire Richard SMith/ elevate Bush
3. fire the screamer/ hire Kollar

bah007
03-10-2009, 01:20 AM
I'd go for it, it worked for us last year. I like Ayers and Tyson Jackson out of LSU as pass rushers, and I wonder how well Larry English could fit in here, we can get any of those guys by trading down.

I doubt we could get Jackson after a trade-down.

He will probably go to one of the 34 defenses picking between 9-17.

I think he is a better fit for a 34 anyway. I could get behind the Ayers pick though.

Xcellerator
03-10-2009, 01:49 AM
Michael Johnson ran a 4.49 & 4.59 on his Pro Day. :l

Ole Miss Texan
03-10-2009, 10:02 AM
If I had to make up a theoretical guy that would be perfect for what I would want as our first round pick (excluding safety b/c that's unrealistic this year) it would be a guy that starts from Day 1 at SLB and on passing downs moves up to the rush RDE position. SLB/RDE guy.

One thing that worries me about selecting a SLB so high is that teams can mitigate his effect by forcing him off the field. Due to defensive packages, the SLB sits out while an extra DB comes in on obvious passing downs, generally. That would suck for us... unless that guy was talented enough to double as an edge rusher to complement Mario. This would kill two birds with one stone.

Mr teX
03-10-2009, 10:31 AM
Michael Johnson ran a 4.49 & 4.59 on his Pro Day. :l

This guy is slipping & Robert Ayers is rising on everyone's draft boards essentially b/c of 1 bad & good season between the 2 of them. Johnson will be a steal wherever he goes b/c he's gonna come away from the draft & be a beast largely b/c of the huge chip that'll be on his shoulder.

dalemurphy
03-10-2009, 02:09 PM
This guy is slipping & Robert Ayers is rising on everyone's draft boards essentially b/c of 1 bad & good season between the 2 of them. Johnson will be a steal wherever he goes b/c he's gonna come away from the draft & be a beast largely b/c of the huge chip that'll be on his shoulder.

I'd be thrilled if we could get him in round #2. That kind of athlete is worth the risk by that point.

The1ApplePie
03-10-2009, 11:36 PM
This guy is slipping & Robert Ayers is rising on everyone's draft boards essentially b/c of 1 bad & good season between the 2 of them. Johnson will be a steal wherever he goes b/c he's gonna come away from the draft & be a beast largely b/c of the huge chip that'll be on his shoulder.

Either that or just be incredibly lazy, the standard Michael Johnson playing style:lion: