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ArlingtonTexan
02-27-2009, 04:49 PM
Look like McDaniels thinks that David Anderson is some version of Wes Welker.

Houston Texans WR David Anderson, a restricted free-agent, has received an offer sheet from the Denver Broncos. The Texans have seven days to match or he will become a member of the Broncos and they will receive a seventh-round pick as compensation.

The Pencil Neck
02-27-2009, 04:51 PM
Of all our RFA's, I didn't expect Mr. Anderson to get the first offer sheet.

texasguy346
02-27-2009, 04:52 PM
KC sure has been active so far in free agency. I wonder how much they offered him.

barrett
02-27-2009, 04:54 PM
I'm fine with that. If we don't retain him I don't think it's that big of a loss. I don't consider him a playmaker. He catches and runs but I feel like he dropped the tough ones frequently.

The Pencil Neck
02-27-2009, 04:55 PM
KC sure has been active so far in free agency. I wonder how much they offered him.

KC? This is Denver aka Houston North. Going for Gaffney and now DA.

It will be interesting to see the offer.

TEXANS84
02-27-2009, 04:55 PM
Hmm...local product of Denver.

I'd sure hate to see Anderson leave, like him as the #4 wideout and backup punt returner. Guy plays his heart out.

Interesting as well considering they just Signed Jabar Gaffney.

Shaft75
02-27-2009, 04:58 PM
Weird huh? Now the Broncos are trying to get our players. It shows how much better our team is. I wonder what the numbers are on this deal.

Jackie Chiles
02-27-2009, 05:05 PM
Hopefully the contract isn't huge and we match it. Doubt we find anyone better with an extra 7th rounder. I know he was a 7th rounder but at that point there are more misses than hits by a large margin. He has improved every year as a player and his production has improved every year. Sounds like a really good locker room guy too, a bit of a clown.

ArlingtonTexan
02-27-2009, 05:09 PM
Hmm...local product of Denver.

I'd sure hate to see Anderson leave, like him as the #4 wideout and backup punt returner. Guy plays his heart out.

Interesting as well considering they just Signed Jabar Gaffney.

Look like he is really trying to mirror NE's style players...They signed two veteran :yawn: type RBs, Gaffney and now a Wes Welker wannabe. Reads like NE west.

rmartin65
02-27-2009, 05:12 PM
I like Anderson, I hope we match. People get too excited for picks, Anderson is better than a likely 7th. He gets first downs, blocks, and seems like a good locker room guy.

steds
02-27-2009, 05:14 PM
Meh. Not fussed. Nobody who sports a mullet at any stage of their life deserves to be supported in any way, shape or form.


Wouldn't be too displeased if we matched the offer though.

Texecutioner
02-27-2009, 05:18 PM
I like Anderson, I hope we match. People get too excited for picks, Anderson is better than a likely 7th. He gets first downs, blocks, and seems like a good locker room guy.

Agreed. I love Anderson and think he is good enough to be our 3rd WR in the slot actually. Don't want to lose that guy.

keyser
02-27-2009, 05:24 PM
I like Anderson, I hope we match. People get too excited for picks, Anderson is better than a likely 7th. He gets first downs, blocks, and seems like a good locker room guy.

To have a 7th rounder contribute at all a few years out is probably above-average. No question he is worth more than a 7th round roll of the dice. I hope the offer sheet is one we can match easily.

If the team was serious about getting rid of Jacoby Jones (I don't think so, I think they were trying to wake him up by letting that leak out), and if Anderson were to leave, our WR corps would suddenly go from a strength to something that needs to be addressed.

The Pencil Neck
02-27-2009, 05:28 PM
To have a 7th rounder contribute at all a few years out is probably above-average. No question he is worth more than a 7th round roll of the dice. I hope the offer sheet is one we can match easily.

If the team was serious about getting rid of Jacoby Jones (I don't think so, I think they were trying to wake him up by letting that leak out), and if Anderson were to leave, our WR corps would suddenly go from a strength to something that needs to be addressed.

Then again, this could be the draft to address it.

TheRealJoker
02-27-2009, 05:31 PM
What are the contract details? Does anyone know how RFA tendering works? I knew someone was gonna try and sign DA as soon as I saw he got a 7th round tender. I wish we could've bumped it up to a 3rd-4th round tender but I think its either the round they're drafted...then bumped to a 1st...then bumped to a 1st/3rd.

I'd love to get him back unless of course he's getting starter/high # 3 money.

We've already paid AD, AJ, and are gonna have to pay KW and OD. Unfortunately, unless its a bargain price I dont think we're gonna get to keep DA.

dtran04
02-27-2009, 05:32 PM
Shows what a steal Kevin Walter was for a 7th round pick.

JayCee
02-27-2009, 05:32 PM
why did we put such a low tender on him in the first place? he's certainly worth coughing up a 7th rounder for.

TimeKiller
02-27-2009, 05:41 PM
Miscue by Smith?

Maybe. Personally I can't believe he's getting this much attention. I hope it's not too much because I think him being the #3 is solid. At least we would get fair compensation for him.

rarazz00
02-27-2009, 05:47 PM
Meh. Not fussed. Nobody who sports a mullet at any stage of their life deserves to be supported in any way, shape or form.


Wouldn't be too displeased if we matched the offer though.

In all due respect...What kind of statement was that?:shocked

b0ng
02-27-2009, 06:07 PM
Hope he doesn't leave. I thought he made some pretty good catches while he was here (And who can forget his string dance).

I'm tipping this beer for you lightning mullet homey.

Polo
02-27-2009, 06:15 PM
hope the Texans match

Blake
02-27-2009, 06:28 PM
I think we will match. He can step in and keep this offense pumping on all cylinders if someone goes down. Also he has great hands. Ive never seen him drop anything.

Thorn
02-27-2009, 06:50 PM
Personally, I'd much rather lose JJ than Anderson. JMO however. I hope we keep Anderson if the price isn't to high.

mattieuk
02-27-2009, 07:09 PM
Personally, I'd much rather lose JJ than Anderson. JMO however. I hope we keep Anderson if the price isn't to high.

Agreed. From what I've heard of him, he's a head down, harding working kinda guy, who produces, albeit unspectaculary without doing much dumb stuff, and keeps things tickign when he's asked to step up.

Hopefully he hasn't been offered anything stupid, but we should be seriously looking at matching.

Maddict5
02-27-2009, 07:16 PM
just a question while we're on the subject: unlikely as it may be, can a rfa reject an offer sheet from another team?

nunusguy
02-27-2009, 07:17 PM
I'm fond of saying that running backs are "a dime a dozen" because I truely believe it. But when it comes to WRs does that same statement apply ?Anderson is a Californian who played his college ball in Ft Collins and would probably enjoy returning to his old stompin grounds in CO.

euro-Texan
02-27-2009, 07:40 PM
oohhh let him go. Let's not get bent out of shape over a 4/5th WR. Sure he's a nice guy, but take th pick and move on. Maybe that's an important peice of the package we use to move up in the draft. Anyone know what Denver's 7th round is worth 2 or 3 pts? Just kidding guys.... He's a great guy but he'll never start here, nor make an impact, take what you can get and let him go.

Jackie Chiles
02-27-2009, 07:45 PM
"In a surprising move, Denver signed receiver David Anderson, a third-year restricted free agent, to a three-year, $4.5 million offer sheet that includes a $1 million signing bonus. The Texans have a week to match Anderson’s deal or let him go and get a seventh-round pick in return."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6284444.html

Thats chump change, this guy is arguably our third best WR, match it.

euro-Texan
02-27-2009, 07:50 PM
"In a surprising move, Denver signed receiver David Anderson, a third-year restricted free agent, to a three-year, $4.5 million offer sheet that includes a $1 million signing bonus. The Texans have a week to match Anderson’s deal or let him go and get a seventh-round pick in return."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6284444.html

Thats chump change, this guy is arguably our third best WR, match it.

Happy trails Mullet... Sorry JC but he is 4th at best and I seriously doubt that we match. Hell our F/O was probably cheering and high fiving for the 7th round pick when this came across the wire.

euro-Texan
02-27-2009, 07:54 PM
PREDICTION.... By the end of camp Darnell jenkins has made everyone forget about David Anderson

Specnatz
02-27-2009, 08:02 PM
Happy trails Mullet... Sorry JC but he is 4th at best and I seriously doubt that we match. Hell our F/O was probably cheering and high fiving for the 7th round pick when this came across the wire.

OK so he is our 4th WR. Better than having to draft one in the 4th round.

Your guessing with Jenkins because he is unproven.

b0ng
02-27-2009, 08:05 PM
PREDICTION.... By the end of camp Darnell jenkins has made everyone forget about David Anderson

I thought that dude was cut because he got hurt like day 1 of training camp?

euro-Texan
02-27-2009, 08:06 PM
OK so he is our 4th WR. Better than having to draft one in the 4th round.

Your guessing with Jenkins because he is unproven.

Guessing what? Whether we can draft a 4-5th WR. Proven what? That playing along side our receiving corps you might get left open?

euro-Texan
02-27-2009, 08:08 PM
I thought that dude was cut because he got hurt like day 1 of training camp?

Well so did Bennie Jopuru and we let him get hurt like three 1st day of training camps in a row

Jackie Chiles
02-27-2009, 08:09 PM
Guessing what? Whether we can draft a 4-5th WR. Proven what? That playing along side our receiving corps you might get left open?

come on, 1/40th of Fat Al in guarantees, we can afford that. He is still improving, I could see him catching 30-40 balls next year in an expanded role.

euro-Texan
02-27-2009, 08:16 PM
come on, 1/40th of Fat Al in guarantees, we can afford that. He is still improving, I could see him catching 30-40 balls next year in an expanded role.

you make a good point, but if we are serious about ever picking up a top tier F/A we can't get hung up on guys who are real deep on the depth chart cause they did a funny dance. (albiet it was our most memorable spot on sports center, that we scored at least)

4Texans
02-27-2009, 08:30 PM
I don't know, if we lose DA and JJ it just weakens our WR group. You can say we can replace them in the draft, or FA but...... We need to hold on to one of them, so we can concentrate on filling other needs.

euro-Texan
02-27-2009, 08:34 PM
As long as AJ, KW and AD are our starters, I feel comfortable in the draft.

HoustonFrog
02-27-2009, 08:44 PM
He is the 4th at best..maybe 5th receiver. A 7th is hard to get to make the team but I wouldn't waste too much money matching. I like his fire though.

eriadoc
02-27-2009, 08:58 PM
Most 7th round picks never contribute in the NFL. So if you are all for taking the pick, you're basically saying you'll take your chance that you can buck the odds again. Furthermore, we paid a 7th round pick for him. So what do we gain by this? Nothing. We invested time and coaching in him, as well as a 7th round pick, then when he finally contributes, you want to trade him off for a 7th that probably won't ever contribute.

That doesn't add up. I don't know what the offer was, but if it's anything comparable to similar WRs in the NFL, I say cough it up. If you don't, you've essentially wasted it all.

euro-Texan
02-27-2009, 09:01 PM
Most 7th round picks never contribute in the NFL. So if you are all for taking the pick, you're basically saying you'll take your chance that you can buck the odds again. Furthermore, we paid a 7th round pick for him. So what do we gain by this? Nothing. We invested time and coaching in him, as well as a 7th round pick, then when he finally contributes, you want to trade him off for a 7th that probably won't ever contribute.

That doesn't add up. I don't know what the offer was, but if it's anything comparable to similar WRs in the NFL, I say cough it up. If you don't, you've essentially wasted it all.

Okay, here is $4,500,000.00... now go back to the bench. oh, and on your way, could you stop by Demeco and laugh in his face!

Lucky
02-27-2009, 09:15 PM
OK so he is our 4th WR.
Would you give that contract to a #4 CB? Or your 4th Tackle? Why give it to a slot receiver who can't block and can't help on special teams?

If the Texans really wanted to keep Anderson, they would have given him a 2nd round tender. No bonus, no guaranteed money, no worries about an offer sheet. No team was going to risk losing their 2nd round pick on a WR who averages 1 catch per game. Receivers like Anderson can found in the 7th round every year. Look it up. There's no reason to overpay for an Anderson-type player.

euro-Texan
02-27-2009, 09:19 PM
Would you give that contract to a #4 CB? Or your 4th Tackle? Why give it to a slot receiver who can't block and can't help on special teams?

If the Texans really wanted to keep Anderson, they would have given him a 2nd round tender. No bonus, no guaranteed money, no worries about an offer sheet. No team was going to risk losing their 2nd round pick on a WR who averages 1 catch per game. Receivers like Anderson can found in the 7th round every year. Look it up. There's no reason to overpay for an Anderson-type player.

Someone finally gets it. He had a nice little gimmick going with the mullet and line dancing, but for 4.5 mil, he can go to denver and make out with his sister in the end-zone every time he scores. We have starters to pay here!

TimeKiller
02-27-2009, 09:28 PM
I understand that not much is gained for the investment in David Anderson but that is all past. Now is he worth 4.5 or his original down-payment, a 7th? Against the money I'm going for the 7th, hoping to use it as a boost in a trade somewhere in the draft and at the very worst trying my luck on another 7th round wideout.

DocBar
02-27-2009, 09:34 PM
Most 7th round picks never contribute in the NFL. So if you are all for taking the pick, you're basically saying you'll take your chance that you can buck the odds again. Furthermore, we paid a 7th round pick for him. So what do we gain by this? Nothing. We invested time and coaching in him, as well as a 7th round pick, then when he finally contributes, you want to trade him off for a 7th that probably won't ever contribute.

That doesn't add up. I don't know what the offer was, but if it's anything comparable to similar WRs in the NFL, I say cough it up. If you don't, you've essentially wasted it all. This falls firmly into the "who cares" category. I'm starting to think we have Jenkins family members on the board, though.

rmartin65
02-27-2009, 09:36 PM
4.5 mill! dang it, there is no way they re-sign him... I really like the guy but even I think this is a little high. I would be ok either way now.

edo783
02-27-2009, 09:37 PM
Good for him, he gets his money. 4.5 mill is too much to match IMO. I wish him the best.

Jackie Chiles
02-27-2009, 09:37 PM
Kevin Walter's third year in Cincinnati he caught the same amount of balls that David did for us this past season. Anderson's ceiling is not as high as Walter but there is upside in him still. I think he was our third best WR last season, ahead of Andre Davis. I think he is perfect in the slot and his role will continue to expand next season. Andre Davis got a 4 year deal for 16 mil with 8 mil guaranteed and just because he is a decent return man doesn't mean he is worth 7 mil more guaranteed. You guys are acting like 4.5mil is a substantial amount of money. I don't believe it is.

TexanBacker93
02-27-2009, 09:38 PM
Look what the Texans have done with 7th round picks and tell yourself that they can't get someone that's comparable. He is a backup WR on the team. The Texans don't need to be giving out $4.5 million contracts to backups at positions where they can draft and fill the same need. How much of his success is his talent and how much is because when he's on the field the defenses are focusing on Andre or OD or even Walter? This is similar to what we did with Kevin Walter. Does anyone here think that Anderson would be as good in the same role as Walter has been? I don't. I liked Anderson for what he was, but I don't think he should get the same kind of contract that Walter got. It's just my opinion, but teams like the Patriots and Steelers seem to always get an extra pick here and there from letting their RFAs go and drafting cheaper replacements.

euro-Texan
02-27-2009, 09:39 PM
maybe we can train him up to play ILB, you know cause after we spend the money that is needed to resign our STARTERS we're going to have some real holes to fill.

Getting draft picks for 7th rounders is GOLD! That is what we want. We want a shot to find that gem of a starter in the 7th round. Will it pan out? No more than yes, but please loose the love affair with benchwarmers. If the Texans announced the David Anderson was a starter this board would freaking implode! It Ain't going to happen, but maybe just maybe we find a player in the 7thround of this years draft who might have the possibility of being a starter or a diamond in the rough. $4,500,000.00 Come on guys... Seriously???? Seriously??

We are now an easy transition for receivers. A receiver friendly enviroment DA can be replaced...

TexanBacker93
02-27-2009, 09:43 PM
[QUOTE=eriadoc;1129252]Most 7th round picks never contribute in the NFL. So if you are all for taking the pick, you're basically saying you'll take your chance that you can buck the odds again. Furthermore, we paid a 7th round pick for him. So what do we gain by this? Nothing. We invested time and coaching in him, as well as a 7th round pick, then when he finally contributes, you want to trade him off for a 7th that probably won't ever contribute.
QUOTE]

You could also look at the other side of that coin. Considering most 7th round picks don't last longer than a year we'll be getting something back for ours. I realize we used a 7th to get him, but how many players do teams draft and then just let go anyways. I'd rather have him than someone new, but not at that kind of a cost. I have faith in the team's drafting ability to get a replacement that can provide similar skills.

Jackie Chiles
02-27-2009, 09:51 PM
Why are you acting like 4.5 mil is a significant amount of money? You are telling me that DeMeco will take exception to DA getting paid that much money? DeMeco will get his and when he does it will be miles ahead of this. The Broncos signed Jabar Gaffney for 10 mill with 3 mil guaranteed and already have Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokely and Chad Jackson. We are 25 mil plus under the cap and by the time DA plays out this contract we will still be under the cap and if we aren't it certainly won't be because of contracts like his.

TexanBacker93
02-27-2009, 09:52 PM
What are the contract details? Does anyone know how RFA tendering works? I knew someone was gonna try and sign DA as soon as I saw he got a 7th round tender. I wish we could've bumped it up to a 3rd-4th round tender but I think its either the round they're drafted...then bumped to a 1st...then bumped to a 1st/3rd.



Unless it has changed (and it could have without my knowledge) there are only 3 classifications of RFAs. Tier 3 means you just get a pick in whatever round that player was drafted. Tier 2 means you get a 1st round pick. Tier 1 is a 1st and a 3rd. He definitely wouldn't see an offer sheet from anyone if they placed anything higher than the 3 on him, but then the team would be paying him a lot more than he probably would be worth.

So..no I don't think this was a miscue by Rick Smith (won't Richard Justice be upset). It was really the only option.

TexanBacker93
02-27-2009, 09:58 PM
No 4.5 million isn't a lot of money in the current NFL. With the financial situations the teams are going to be facing, though, it is a lot for a role player that can be replaced with a less expensive player that doesn't require a million dollars in guarantees. The Texans already have over $10 million going to the Andres this year and Walter is in his last year of his contract and will want more than he is currently getting. I'd rather save some cap room and keep Walter than spend too much on keeping players that can be easily replaced. If the team decided to let Walter go next year and find a cheaper replacement I'd be ok with that too. Spend the money on the core players that are key parts to your team.

euro-Texan
02-27-2009, 10:02 PM
Why are you acting like 4.5 mil is a significant amount of money? You are telling me that DeMeco will take exception to DA getting paid that much money? DeMeco will get his and when he does it will be miles ahead of this. The Broncos signed Jabar Gaffney for 10 mill with 3 mil guaranteed and already have Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokely and Chad Jackson. We are 25 mil plus under the cap and by the time DA plays out this contract we will still be under the cap and if we aren't it certainly won't be because of contracts like his.

4.5mil might not be a whole lot in the big picture, but the point is DeMeco isn't happy with the $850k - $1mil he is scheduled to receive this year. Yes, we will rework his contract, but it will take a lot. While 4.5 million spent to a guy riding the pine pony will significantly restrict our ability to afford our stars the compensation they deserve and expect.

Lucky
02-27-2009, 10:23 PM
Unless it has changed (and it could have without my knowledge) there are only 3 classifications of RFAs.
There are four different RFA tender amounts. A tender amount of $1.54 million (or 110 % of previous year's salary if higher) returns right of refusal with a 2nd round pick in compensation. The Texans used a 2nd round tender on C.C. Brown last season.

Had the Texans given Anderson a 2nd round tender, they could have kept him for 2009 for about same average as the Broncos offered over 3 seasons. But without any guaranteed money and without any long term commitment.

Jackie Chiles
02-27-2009, 10:25 PM
4.5mil might not be a whole lot in the big picture, but the point is DeMeco isn't happy with the $850k - $1mil he is scheduled to receive this year. Yes, we will rework his contract, but it will take a lot. While 4.5 million spent to a guy riding the pine pony will significantly restrict our ability to afford our stars the compensation they deserve and expect.

If DeMeco wants to be concerned with someone else's contract he should be concerned with the 48 mil Bart Scott just got from the Jets. That contract will have implications when it comes to getting a new deal. David Anderson getting 4.5 over 3 years will have zero impact on DeMeco. Zero.

V3rm0nt3r
02-27-2009, 10:31 PM
keep him. i like the kid. he may not be the fastest or have the best hands but he's a thorn in the d's side and he'll make you pay if you don't account for him.

and has anybody else noticed that only white WR's get compared to Welker? is he the new, football version, of Larry Bird? sorry just a thought.

ChampionTexan
02-27-2009, 10:40 PM
Would you give that contract to a #4 CB? Or your 4th Tackle? Why give it to a slot receiver who can't block and can't help on special teams?

If the Texans really wanted to keep Anderson, they would have given him a 2nd round tender. No bonus, no guaranteed money, no worries about an offer sheet. No team was going to risk losing their 2nd round pick on a WR who averages 1 catch per game. Receivers like Anderson can found in the 7th round every year. Look it up. There's no reason to overpay for an Anderson-type player.

Which all begs the question is Denver just a bunch of morons given that they are doing exactly what you describe above? The only difference is that the Texans would be signing him to the exact same contract without having to forfeit a 7th round pick to do it.

I'm fine if the Texans match, and I'm fine if the Texans take the pick - I just don't view it as such an obvious choice.

Thorn
02-27-2009, 10:59 PM
Most 7th round picks never contribute in the NFL. So if you are all for taking the pick, you're basically saying you'll take your chance that you can buck the odds again. Furthermore, we paid a 7th round pick for him. So what do we gain by this? Nothing. We invested time and coaching in him, as well as a 7th round pick, then when he finally contributes, you want to trade him off for a 7th that probably won't ever contribute.

That doesn't add up. I don't know what the offer was, but if it's anything comparable to similar WRs in the NFL, I say cough it up. If you don't, you've essentially wasted it all.

Yep. some rep coming your way..

ArlingtonTexan
02-27-2009, 11:07 PM
Which all begs the question is Denver just a bunch of morons given that they are doing exactly what you describe above? The only difference is that the Texans would be signing him to the exact same contract without having to forfeit a 7th round pick to do it.

I'm fine if the Texans match, and I'm fine if the Texans take the pick - I just don't view it as such an obvious choice.

The anderson contract debate is pretty similiar to when we offered a contract to Walter.

DiehardChris
02-27-2009, 11:18 PM
Buh bye. Too much for a #4.

Lucky
02-27-2009, 11:24 PM
Which all begs the question is Denver just a bunch of morons given that they are doing exactly what you describe above?
TBD on what Denver will be. First time GM(s) combined with virgin head coach. Slot receiver is a starting position in the spread offense the Broncos will run. If Anderson wins that job, Denver gets a starter for a relatively low price. Anderson wasn't going to see the field much, here. Similar in that respect to Walter's situation in Cincy.

The difference between Walter in '06 and Anderson in '09, is that Walter was considered a top special teamer. As is Andre Davis, which is a big reason the Texans re-signed him to a $4 million/year deal last season. Anderson is a niche player that will never be fully utilized in this offense. Owen Daniels is the target in the middle of the field, for the Texans. The Texans need to bring in a young WR that can challenge Jacoby Jones for the punt returner job and help out on the coverage teams. Anderson is not that guy.

DiehardChris
02-27-2009, 11:24 PM
PREDICTION.... By the end of camp Darnell jenkins has made everyone forget about David Anderson

Bingo. Before the chance of Anderson leaving, I would say he could make us all forget about Jacoby... now, DA.

threetoedpete
02-27-2009, 11:34 PM
=TexanBacker93;1129294

You could also look at the other side of that coin. Considering most 7th round picks don't last longer than a year we'll be getting something back for ours. I realize we used a 7th to get him, but how many players do teams draft and then just let go anyways. I'd rather have him than someone new, but not at that kind of a cost. I have faith in the team's drafting ability to get a replacement that can provide similar skills.


Maybe his thirteen of sixteen third down pick ups is OK by them. Looks like they are laying in weapons on the cheap for Jay Cutler. Here's hoping Davis comes back and stays healthy.


All of you quinn crosby fans ought to be excited.

edo783
02-27-2009, 11:41 PM
The issue IMO, is that the deal is right on the cusp of too much for the player/position. I wouldn't be upset if is we let him go or if we match. Probably means it is a right sized contract for the player and experience level.

mexican_texan
02-27-2009, 11:43 PM
Bingo. Before the chance of Anderson leaving, I would say he could make us all forget about Jacoby... now, DA.
While I like Darnell Jenkins, I don't know if he'll be able to dance like DA.

And I'd like to take this opportunity to say I've been openly riding Jenkins before anyone else. :D

ChampionTexan
02-28-2009, 12:14 AM
TBD on what Denver will be. First time GM(s) combined with virgin head coach. Slot receiver is a starting position in the spread offense the Broncos will run. If Anderson wins that job, Denver gets a starter for a relatively low price. Anderson wasn't going to see the field much, here. Similar in that respect to Walter's situation in Cincy.



So between Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, and Jabbar Gaffney, which one do you see Anderson as most likely relegating to the bench?

Specnatz
02-28-2009, 12:16 AM
Would you give that contract to a #4 CB? Or your 4th Tackle? Why give it to a slot receiver who can't block and can't help on special teams?

If the Texans really wanted to keep Anderson, they would have given him a 2nd round tender. No bonus, no guaranteed money, no worries about an offer sheet. No team was going to risk losing their 2nd round pick on a WR who averages 1 catch per game. Receivers like Anderson can found in the 7th round every year. Look it up. There's no reason to overpay for an Anderson-type player.

Anderson does block when he is on the field and does contribute on special teams so your point is completely wrong. You mentioned two things that he does do and you say he does not ... opps.

The way our offense is going we need the 4 WR and two pass catching TE, so yeah he is worth this money.

As far as why would the Texans tender him this way? Simple this is exactly how they tendered Leach. Not sure why but maybe they thought no one would offer him such a contract.

Lucky
02-28-2009, 12:46 AM
Anderson does block when he is on the field and does contribute on special teams so your point is completely wrong. You mentioned two things that he does do and you say he does not ... opps.
I should have qualified my statement by saying Anderson doesn't block or play special teams well. My bad.

So between Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, and Jabbar Gaffney, which one do you see Anderson as most likely relegating to the bench?
Gaffney?

Who cares what or why regarding the decisions the Broncos or another team makes? Because the Vikings are going to give Sage Rosenfels a shot at the starting QB job, should the Texans have done the same? I don't see how Denver's logic (or lack thereof) behind offering Anderson should carry any weight in the Texans decision to keep him.

Texanmike02
02-28-2009, 12:49 AM
Here's my take on DA. You don't really know what he's worth.. and you don't really care to negociate with him. Let someone else do that. Let him negociate with the rest of the league because honestly, you don't see him as being worth THAT much money. Let someone else set the value for a guy who is worth more than a typical 7th rounder, but you don't really have a value for. If the market value (whatever someone is willing to pay) is higher than what you're willing to pay you let him walk. If he had come back with a tender for 2.5 instead of 4.5 you probably sign him up and you haven't had to do any down talking to him.

That's my take on it. We didn't think someone would do it and we figured we'd let someone negociate the deal for us. If they wanted to give too much, we'd let him walk and they would pay us a 7th rounder for the privilage to negociate (badly I might add).

Mike

ChampionTexan
02-28-2009, 01:04 AM
Gaffney?

Who cares what or why regarding the decisions the Broncos or another team makes? Because the Vikings are going to give Sage Rosenfels a shot at the starting QB job, should the Texans have done the same? I don't see how Denver's logic (or lack thereof) behind offering Anderson should carry any weight in the Texans decision to keep him.

And Gaffney just signed for considerably more than Anderson would be getting.

My point isn't that it's clear they should match the offer. My point is that I think it's a difficult decision, and far from the obvious slam-dunk response that I perceive you've characterized it as.

The reality is out of the only 32 groups of people who make these types of decisions for a living, one of them has said he's worth the price we're talking about, and I wouldn't be shocked if the only other one involved ends up agreeing.

Polo
02-28-2009, 01:07 AM
Goodbye DA...

I tried to tell people that you were a nice ball player your rookie year and I even campaigned to get you more playing time back then...

Thanks for the dedication and good luck in Denver.

LonerATO
02-28-2009, 01:52 AM
we can always draft Ramses Barden | Quan Cosby | Patrick Turner | Brandon Tate | Jarett Dillard | Deon Butler. those are just a few guys
|

mussop
02-28-2009, 06:41 AM
I'm fine with that. If we don't retain him I don't think it's that big of a loss. I don't consider him a playmaker. He catches and runs but I feel like he dropped the tough ones frequently.

I dont remember him dropping many passes at all. However I do remember that being the knock on O Danials last year.

mussop
02-28-2009, 07:03 AM
Most 7th round picks never contribute in the NFL. So if you are all for taking the pick, you're basically saying you'll take your chance that you can buck the odds again. Furthermore, we paid a 7th round pick for him. So what do we gain by this? Nothing. We invested time and coaching in him, as well as a 7th round pick, then when he finally contributes, you want to trade him off for a 7th that probably won't ever contribute.

That doesn't add up. I don't know what the offer was, but if it's anything comparable to similar WRs in the NFL, I say cough it up. If you don't, you've essentially wasted it all.



Good post! I dont think some people understand that these players are commodities. I think Rick Smith made a mistake by putting such a low tendar on him. He under valued him for what we have invested in him and its probably going to cost us. What we are getting in return for him (7th) is not equal value. The chances he could be replaced with a 7th round pick are very slim.

I dont know how much it would of cost to tender him higher but I hope it was worth it.

On a side note. Good luck to you DA no matter what happens, you worked youre ass off to get where you are and you earned that contract.

ArlingtonTexan
02-28-2009, 08:24 AM
For 2009 the restricted free agent tender amounts have gone up again and are really becoming cost prohibitive for NFL teams. Once again there is a low tender, middle tender and two high tenders that teams can use on players to not only give them the right of first refusal if said player is presented with an offer sheet from another team, but increased draft pick compensation as well.

Here are the tender amounts

Low tender - right of first refusal & original draft pick - $1.01 million


Middle tender - right of first refusal & 2nd round pick - $1.545 million

(Compensation is a 2nd round pick if original club chooses not to match any offer sheet)

High tender - right of first refusal & 1st round pick - $2.198 million

Highest tender - right of first refusal & 1st and 3rd round picks - $2.792 million

beerlover
02-28-2009, 08:56 AM
strength today weakness tomorrow (WR's).

this offseason free agency period has been very dissapointing. like Denver needs another WR worse than the Texans. average to below average cb's get huge deals but the Texans cannot come to terms with Dunta Robinson? Sage is dealt & the Texans bring in Ramsey. DeMeco unhappy cause he hasn't been taken care of after three years of elite production while still playing under 2nd rd. rookie contract. @ some point those dudes over on Kirby need to pull themselves out of Rodeo mentality & treat our own players with higher priority & reward them with market value contracts.

the honeymoon is over Rick, payback's a *****

Kaiser Toro
02-28-2009, 08:57 AM
Good for Mr. Anderson, I hope he gets paid elsewhere. Never have seen the high ceiling on him, a Welker like motor or special teams prowess. I always looked at him as just happy to be here due to Uncle Gary, and played as hard as he could.

Pantherstang84
02-28-2009, 09:19 AM
strength today weakness tomorrow (WR's).

this offseason free agency period has been very dissapointing. like Denver needs another WR worse than the Texans. average to below average cb's get huge deals but the Texans cannot come to terms with Dunta Robinson? Sage is dealt & the Texans bring in Ramsey. DeMeco unhappy cause he hasn't been taken care of after three years of elite production while still playing under 2nd rd. rookie contract. @ some point those dudes over on Kirby need to pull themselves out of Rodeo mentality & treat our own players with higher priority & reward them with market value contracts.

the honeymoon is over Rick, payback's a *****

The Texans will suck this year right? :fortune:

Errant Hothy
02-28-2009, 09:36 AM
strength today weakness tomorrow (WR's).

this offseason free agency period has been very dissapointing. like Denver needs another WR worse than the Texans. average to below average cb's get huge deals but the Texans cannot come to terms with Dunta Robinson? Sage is dealt & the Texans bring in Ramsey. DeMeco unhappy cause he hasn't been taken care of after three years of elite production while still playing under 2nd rd. rookie contract. @ some point those dudes over on Kirby need to pull themselves out of Rodeo mentality & treat our own players with higher priority & reward them with market value contracts.

the honeymoon is over Rick, payback's a *****


Richard Justice, is that you?

beerlover
02-28-2009, 09:48 AM
Richard Justice, is that you?

pretty dang close:rant:

The1ApplePie
02-28-2009, 09:55 AM
Since the Texans taking Maclin is a real possibility I think David Anderson is totally expendable

Kaiser Toro
02-28-2009, 09:58 AM
Since the Texans taking Maclin is a real possibility I think David Anderson is totally expendable

Or Darius Butler in the second.

b0ng
02-28-2009, 10:06 AM
Since the Texans taking Maclin is a real possibility I think David Anderson is totally expendable

It's as possible as the Texans taking Sanchez!

The1ApplePie
02-28-2009, 10:13 AM
It's as possible as the Texans taking Sanchez!

Kubes wanted Ted Ginn in 2007 and Maclin grades the same. We need a return man and a playmaking WR lining up next to AJ. Makes sense to me, especially if Orakpo, Raji, and Mailauga are gone

b0ng
02-28-2009, 10:20 AM
Kubes wanted Ted Ginn in 2007 and Maclin grades the same. We need a return man and a playmaking WR lining up next to AJ. Makes sense to me, especially if Orakpo, Raji, and Mailauga are gone

Just so you know, this is now 2009. We have a playmaking WR lined up next to AJ, and we have a return man.

mussop
02-28-2009, 10:22 AM
For 2009 the restricted free agent tender amounts have gone up again and are really becoming cost prohibitive for NFL teams. Once again there is a low tender, middle tender and two high tenders that teams can use on players to not only give them the right of first refusal if said player is presented with an offer sheet from another team, but increased draft pick compensation as well.

Here are the tender amounts

Low tender - right of first refusal & original draft pick - $1.01 million


Middle tender - right of first refusal & 2nd round pick - $1.545 million

(Compensation is a 2nd round pick if original club chooses not to match any offer sheet)

High tender - right of first refusal & 1st round pick - $2.198 million

Highest tender - right of first refusal & 1st and 3rd round picks - $2.792 million

In other words for roughly 500,000 we could of locked up DA. What is he going to cost us if we resign him now?

steelbtexan
02-28-2009, 10:22 AM
Good for Mr. Anderson, I hope he gets paid elsewhere. Never have seen the high ceiling on him, a Welker like motor or special teams prowess. I always looked at him as just happy to be here due to Uncle Gary, and played as hard as he could.

What he said

The1ApplePie
02-28-2009, 10:27 AM
Just so you know, this is now 2009. We have a playmaking WR lined up next to AJ, and we have a return man.

I don't remember a playmaker from last year. I remember a guy that defenses didn't really key on since he was not AJ or Owen Daniels.

You really think Jacoby Jones is an adequate anything?

b0ng
02-28-2009, 10:35 AM
I don't remember a playmaker from last year. I remember a guy that defenses didn't really key on since he was not AJ or Owen Daniels.

You really think Jacoby Jones is an adequate anything?

Is Jacoby Jones still on the team or did he get waived and we haven't had a thread about it? If he's still on the team in April we're not picking somebody to return kicks in the 1st or 2nd round.

Kevin Walter not making a play (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80d245c2). Just go ahead and say "I don't like Kevin Walter and I don't know why".

EDIT: Go ahead and call him a scrub. (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80bfbda8)

ChampionTexan
02-28-2009, 10:36 AM
Kubes wanted Ted Ginn in 2007 and Maclin grades the same. We need a return man and a playmaking WR lining up next to AJ. Makes sense to me, especially if Orakpo, Raji, and Mailauga are gone

Coming off of the 2006 season, the Texans were 28th in the NFL in total offense, and 27th in passing offense. Their #2 WR had 57 catches for 557 yards and 1 TD - and he'd been waived a couple of months prior to the 2007 draft.

Coming off of the 2008 season, the Texans are 3rd in the NFL in total offense, and 4th in passing offense. Their #2 WR had 60 catches for 899 yards and 8 TD's.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure because he wanted Ginn in '07, it will mean he's looking for the same thing in '09

beerlover
02-28-2009, 10:43 AM
from a needs/draft perspective combined with uncertain future of Jacoby with Texans its does seem they will look to draft a replacement. the one thing that hurts Anderson or in this case the Texans from matching Denver offer (thus the lower tender) David never showed return skills, (added value w/4th WR slot). while the Texans will not use their 1st on a WR, like Maclin (defensive needs) maybe a 3rd round value package?


I really like Arizona WR Mike Thomas, not very big (5077 195) but sure handed, tough returner & Pac-10's all-time career leading receiver with 259 catches, runs great routes/seperation & strong runner after the catch. even Richard Justice thinks he's the next Maurice Jones-Drew of WR's :thisbig:

The1ApplePie
02-28-2009, 10:44 AM
Coming off of the 2006 season, the Texans were 28th in the NFL in total offense, and 27th in passing offense. Their #2 WR had 57 catches for 557 yards and 1 TD - and he'd been waived a couple of months prior to the 2007 draft.

Coming off of the 2008 season, the Texans are 3rd in the NFL in total offense, and 4th in passing offense. Their #2 WR had 60 catches for 899 yards and 8 TD's.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure because he wanted Ginn in '07, it will mean he's looking for the same thing in '09

Coaches like a style of player and Maclin is a perfect fit for the Texans. Kick Walter to the slot where he can be a less talented Wes Welker. A great WR can open up the field and turn the Texans from a good offense on paper to a good one on the field

b0ng
02-28-2009, 10:45 AM
^^^^How is a guy who is too small and fragile to block in the running game a "fit" for the Texans? Only somebody like Mel Kiper would say that. Are you Mel Kiper?

from a needs/draft perspective combined with uncertain future of Jacoby with Texans its does seem they will look to draft a replacement. the one thing that hurts Anderson or in this case the Texans from matching Denver offer (thus the lower tender) David never showed return skills, (added value w/4th WR slot). while the Texans will not use their 1st on a WR, like Maclin (defensive needs) maybe a 3rd round value package?


I really like Arizona WR Mike Thomas, not very big (5077 195) but sure handed, tough returner & Pac-10's all-time career leading receiver with 259 catches, runs great routes/seperation & strong runner after the catch. even Richard Justice thinks he's the next Maurice Jones-Drew of WR's :thisbig:

While I agree with you that we aren't going with a WR in the first (I say day 1 all together), why do you have to go quoting Richard Justice like he has some kind of insight on football?

steelbtexan
02-28-2009, 10:50 AM
Good ?

Errant Hothy
02-28-2009, 10:52 AM
I find it mildly amusing that there was a definite level of bitching when Anderson was draft, regarding Kubiak and Colorado St. And now that he might be leaving there are some cries that he has to be retained. Just makes me :)

As for Anderson, I really don't care. Is he a decent enough 4th WR? Certainly. Could we find a replacement for him in rounds 5-7? Maybe. Is he worth what it would cost to keep him? I don't know. He's the 4th WR, and that makes him the 6th or 7th option on this team when it comes the passing game. He's a good guy, who does all the secondary things that a good WR should; and I understand why some thing he should be re-signed. But irreplaceable he is nowhere near.

What ever cal Smith and Kubes make on this I'm ok with (althought I'm leaning slightly towards letting him go to Denver and getting another extra draft pick (7th round or not, extra draft picks do add up)).

rmartin65
02-28-2009, 10:54 AM
Coaches like a style of player and Maclin is a perfect fit for the Texans. Kick Walter to the slot where he can be a less talented Wes Welker. A great WR can open up the field and turn the Texans from a good offense on paper to a good one on the field

Walter is not the same type of player that Welker is. That would not work. Wide Receiver is not a need. Not on the first day.

b0ng
02-28-2009, 11:01 AM
Walter is not the same type of player that Welker is. That would not work. Wide Receiver is not a need. Not on the first day.

Sure Walter is! See, they are both white so they must be the same kind of player.

GP
02-28-2009, 11:22 AM
There's no dilemma.

If DA is too expensive, grab the extra 7th and save the money.

If we're going to miss DA as a slot receiver/special teamer THAT much...then go out and find his twin in the draft.

I'm at a point with this team, as a fan, where I'm not going to get all sentimental and think that a 4th WR who's a "great gamer," etc., should be locked up because he's being courted by another team.

Make the Broncos do that deal, but we can't treat all our players as if they are irreplaceable. I don't want us to lower our cap space because the FO was scared to let a 4th WR leave.

I might be wrong, but I think David is headed to the Broncos.

This FO is impressing the hell out of me. I hope they stay on the same track. It seemed like the Casserly era was a time of over-paying guys like David Anderson, because we were so shallow in talent that we were scared to let a talented person leave. Now? It looks like the FO has a handle on things.

BigBull17
02-28-2009, 11:24 AM
strength today weakness tomorrow (WR's).

this offseason free agency period has been very dissapointing. like Denver needs another WR worse than the Texans. average to below average cb's get huge deals but the Texans cannot come to terms with Dunta Robinson? Sage is dealt & the Texans bring in Ramsey. DeMeco unhappy cause he hasn't been taken care of after three years of elite production while still playing under 2nd rd. rookie contract. @ some point those dudes over on Kirby need to pull themselves out of Rodeo mentality & treat our own players with higher priority & reward them with market value contracts.

the honeymoon is over Rick, payback's a *****

So, we're suppose to make an offer better than making him a top 5 paid DB in the NFL? We offered a fat contract, but he said no in hopes of getting out of town. Demeco has a year left and needs to calm down with the pouty face. You don't get anywhere in the NFL being the nice guys. Philly is almost always in the hunt, and they are complete assholes. David Anderson is decent, but he is far from irreplaceable. If the money they offered is too great, then why should they overpay a slot WR with very little upside?

Also, Ramsey + 4th > Sage.

beerlover
02-28-2009, 11:44 AM
So, we're suppose to make an offer better than making him a top 5 paid DB in the NFL?

something like that, not sure top 5 but certainly top 10 :thinking:

BigBull17
02-28-2009, 11:45 AM
strength today weakness tomorrow (WR's).

this offseason free agency period has been very dissapointing. like Denver needs another WR worse than the Texans. average to below average cb's get huge deals but the Texans cannot come to terms with Dunta Robinson? Sage is dealt & the Texans bring in Ramsey. DeMeco unhappy cause he hasn't been taken care of after three years of elite production while still playing under 2nd rd. rookie contract. @ some point those dudes over on Kirby need to pull themselves out of Rodeo mentality & treat our own players with higher priority & reward them with market value contracts.

the honeymoon is over Rick, payback's a *****

So, we're suppose to make an offer better than making him a top 5 paid DB in the NFL? We offered a fat contract, but he said no in hopes of getting out of town. Demeco has a year left and needs to calm down with the pouty face. You don't get anywhere in the NFL being the nice guys. Philly is almost always in the hunt, and they are complete assholes. David Anderson is decent, but he is far from irreplaceable. If the money they offered is too great, then why should they overpay a slot WR with very little upside?

Also, Ramsey + 4th > Sage.

GP
02-28-2009, 11:49 AM
So, we're suppose to make an offer better than making him a top 5 paid DB in the NFL? We offered a fat contract, but he said no in hopes of getting out of town. Demeco has a year left and needs to calm down with the pouty face. You don't get anywhere in the NFL being the nice guys. Philly is almost always in the hunt, and they are complete assholes. David Anderson is decent, but he is far from irreplaceable. If the money they offered is too great, then why should they overpay a slot WR with very little upside?

Also, Ramsey + 4th > Sage.

I agree on all points.

Certain players on this team are starting to show that they're trying to leverage the recent success of the Texans, for personal gain. While that's all good and well, for a player who's trying to get the most that he can, there's also the side of the team's front office who is trying (we hope) to get the most bang for the least amount of buck$.

If we give a defensive back top 5 money, I want that DB to be a top 5 DB with no health issues. Dunta simply cannot command top 5 money from the Texans. Maybe a desperate team would, but the Texans aren't a sinking team anymore. Let the sinkers make that gamble. Not us.

DeMeco's open confessional of what he expects/wants was ill-timed, being that it was on the heels of long-term negotiations stalling between Dunta and the Texans. I wonder if he's had time to analyze his remarks and I wonder if he thinks that it was wise (or "hip") to make those comments, in retrospect.

And now we have David Anderson being wooed by the Broncos, who have made lots of free agency moves in the past day or so. And on the outside, as Texans fans, we might be tempted to see all those free agency moves and think "Wow! They're moving and shaking. If they want David Anderson, then they must really want him. And if they realllly want him, then he must be good enough for us to do whatever it takes to keep him here."

I don't see the Texans blinking on this one. I think the "priority WRs" are AJ, Andre Davis, and Walter. Retaining Owen Daniels is huge, IMO. He acts as a freaking WR when you get right down to it. His ability to get downfield and provide Schaub with an easy outlet/safety-valve is critical to our success.

David Anderson is a role-playing, small'ish slot receiver who gets out there on situational and certain "package" plays. I think we can find that sort of player in rounds 4-through-7 if we can't retain David Anderson.

Save the money. Grab the draft pick. Re-load in the draft, and sign your new slot receiver to a rookie contract that's figured on mid-round money.

And while I admit to being a Sage fan, getting a 4th rounder (with what we DO with 4th rounders) is good for the team. This was the year Sage needed to ride off into the purple and yellow sunset. Good for him, good for us. Win-win situation. I would be thrilled with Pat White in the 2nd if he's still there, which I bet he isn't going to be.

beerlover
02-28-2009, 11:51 AM
^^^^How is a guy who is too small and fragile to block in the running game a "fit" for the Texans? Only somebody like Mel Kiper would say that. Are you Mel Kiper? :potkettle:

why do you have to go quoting Richard Justice like he has some kind of insight on football?
:sarcasm:

BigBull17
02-28-2009, 12:12 PM
something like that, not sure top 5 but certainly top 10 :thinking:

We made him a bad ass offer, most likly similar to Hayden's, and he walked on it. We can't pay him more than that. It's what got our old front office into trouble.

mexican_texan
02-28-2009, 12:19 PM
something like that, not sure top 5 but certainly top 10 :thinking:
He rejected a Gamble-type deal. Robinson wants more guaranteed money than Gamble.

threetoedpete
02-28-2009, 12:33 PM
Since the Texans taking Maclin is a real possibility I think David Anderson is totally expendable

And you know Maclin will make thirteen of sixteen first down targets during a sixteen game season.....because ?


One angle has been posted that they are letting the league set the contract numbers and then deciding whether or not to match them. The other dynamic working here as beerlover posted is they are going to have to decide in the near future if Mario is worth fifty million up front with another fifty to seventy million over seven to ten years. Now if they are setting things up for that dynamic in the future, I'm OK with loosing DA. But I'm with beerlover. If the draft & free agency weren't a crap shoot (illegal dice game) , we wouldn't of sucked so bad the first six years. And nothing is automatic in replacing players in the draft, nor free agency. With all of Maclin's speed you don't know if he can block. And you don't know if he can run our route tree. And you don't know what his work ethic is. What you know he is fast with a return compliment. I'm a bird in the hand guy also. I know what they have in Anderson.

steelbtexan
02-28-2009, 12:43 PM
Let DA go, your hard work paid off, thanks good luck in the future with the Broncos.

Smithiak needs to have this conversation with DA.

I would like to see J. Jones & a 2010 5th traded to the Raiders for M. Bush.

Then we could draft Quan Cosby to return punts & be the 4th WR. Cosby also will be very good on ST coverage teams.

I think D. Jenkins has potential as well.

mexican_texan
02-28-2009, 12:45 PM
I'd like to see JJ traded for Michael Huff, who might otherwise be cut. I'd like to point out that Fabian Washington was a bust in Oakland and went on to start in Baltimore.

Specnatz
02-28-2009, 12:51 PM
I'd like to see JJ traded for Michael Huff, who might otherwise be cut. I'd like to point out that Fabian Washington was a bust in Oakland and went on to start in Baltimore.

Look at Gibril Wilson and D Hall getting big contracts after being cut by the Raiders.

ChampionTexan
02-28-2009, 12:57 PM
I'd like to see JJ traded for Michael Huff, who might otherwise be cut. I'd like to point out that Fabian Washington was a bust in Oakland and went on to start in Baltimore.

Huff is scheduled to make $5,750,000 in base salary in 2010. I don't think the Texans are likely to pick up that contract, and I don't think Huff would renegotiate since it's extremely likely he'd make more money by being cut and allowed to get a new contract with new guaranteed money.

GP
02-28-2009, 01:00 PM
And you know Maclin will make thirteen of sixteen first down targets during a sixteen game season.....because ?


One angle has been posted that they are letting the league set the contract numbers and then deciding whether or not to match them. The other dynamic working here as beerlover posted is they are going to have to decide in the near future if Mario is worth fifty million up front with another fifty to seventy million over seven to ten years. Now if they are setting things up for that dynamic in the future, I'm OK with loosing DA. But I'm with beerlover. If the draft & free agency weren't a crap shoot(illegal dice game) , we wouldn't of sucked so bad the first six years. And nothing is automatic in replacing players in the draft, nor free agenmcy. With all of Maclin's speed you don't know if he can block. And you don't know if he can run our route tree. And you don't know what his work ethic is. What you know he is fast with a return compliment. I'm a bird in the hand guy also. I know what they have in Anderson.

I think you're missing the big picture:

We have two Texans "regimes" to judge thus far.

I think the 2nd regime is proving to have a better handle on free agency AND the draft than the first regime did.

Outside of the Ahman Green situation, which wasn't outrageously expensive nor a hindrance once he was released, I can't find too many ridiculous decisions the team has made.

(A) They booted Mathis when they should have. Insert Jacoby Jones. And he will get kicked to the curb, too, as soon as it's possible to do so. This team isn't putting up with the same measure of crap that Capers did.

(B) They were disciplined enough to trade down and grab what MIGHT be a good olineman in Duane Brown while grabbing an extra 3rd round pick that was used on easily the biggest "sleeper" draft pick of the whole draft. But these guys in the FO were jackasses for passing on Reggie Bush. Oops.

(C) They tagged Dunta and basically asked him to take two sips of reality before proceeding with long-term talks that I think any sensible person would agree is not anywhere near where it needs to be.

(D) They cut Weaver, admitting they need a better DE. Enter Antonio Smith, which might be a slight upgrade but also has more potential than Weaver ever displayed. At least they aren't so stubborn as to try one more year with Weaver. If we don't overpay, or get into a bidding war for him, I'm good with trying this free agency move instead of risking it on a drafted DE this year. This year's DE class is shaky, at best.

(E) We got a 4th for Sage which IMO the real value in the Sage deal is that everyone gets to "move on" and chart new territory with Sage in Minnesota. And, we got a 4th rounder just for kicks. Should've done the deal last year, but oh well. That's hindsight, eh?

Pete, I think you just have a tremendous axe to grind with this team. You're no homer, that's for sure, but you're also on the verge of being Walter Matthau from Grumpy Old Men: The guy who bitches and takes pleasure in pissing on people's parades. Just my two cents. And I should know, because I was on the verge of being that person back in the regular season when things looked horrible.

If Kubiak "gets run" then he gets run. I am leaning toward thinking that he and this team have pulled a huge Houdini in the last games of this past season, proving they have a better future than teams like Jax who have instantly gone from contender to pitiful pretender in a heartbeat.

I like where we're at. If we don't fall into the trap of getting into a bidding war for Antonio Smith and David Anderson, then I'm easily able to admit that I was categorically wrong about Kubiak's future here.

GP
02-28-2009, 01:03 PM
And by the way, there's zero chance we go WR in the 1st round. I think Kubiak and Shanny Jr. are good with what we got. Drafting WR will be done in later rounds as insurance and as grabbing a "project guy" so to speak.

I sense we're loading up on defense this year, similar to what the Bears did one year when almost every pick was defense.

Pantherstang84
02-28-2009, 01:06 PM
I think you're missing the big picture:

We have two Texans "regimes" to judge thus far.

I think the 2nd regime is proving to have a better handle on free agency AND the draft than the first regime did.

Outside of the Ahman Green situation, which wasn't outrageously expensive nor a hindrance once he was released, I can't find too many ridiculous decisions the team has made.

(A) They booted Mathis when they should have. Insert Jacoby Jones. And he will get kicked to the curb, too, as soon as it's possible to do so. This team isn't putting up with the same measure of crap that Capers did.

(B) They were disciplined enough to trade down and grab what MIGHT be a good olineman in Duane Brown while grabbing an extra 3rd round pick that was used on easily the biggest "sleeper" draft pick of the whole draft. But these guys in the FO were jackasses for passing on Reggie Bush. Oops.

(C) They tagged Dunta and basically asked him to take two sips of reality before proceeding with long-term talks that I think any sensible person would agree is not anywhere near where it needs to be.

(D) They cut Weaver, admitting they need a better DE. Enter Antonio Smith, which might be a slight upgrade but also has more potential than Weaver ever displayed. At least they aren't so stubborn as to try one more year with Weaver. If we don't overpay, or get into a bidding war for him, I'm good with trying this free agency move instead of risking it on a drafted DE this year. This year's DE class is shaky, at best.

(E) We got a 4th for Sage which IMO the real value in the Sage deal is that everyone gets to "move on" and chart new territory with Sage in Minnesota. And, we got a 4th rounder just for kicks. Should've done the deal last year, but oh well. That's hindsight, eh?

Pete, I think you just have a tremendous axe to grind with this team. You're no homer, that's for sure, but you're also on the verge of being Walter Matthau from Grumpy Old Men: The guy who bitches and takes pleasure in pissing on people's parades. Just my two cents. And I should know, because I was on the verge of being that person back in the regular season when things looked horrible.

If Kubiak "gets run" then he gets run. I am leaning toward thinking that he and this team have pulled a huge Houdini in the last games of this past season, proving they have a better future than teams like Jax who have instantly gone from contender to pitiful pretender in a heartbeat.

I like where we're at. If we don't fall into the trap of getting into a bidding war for Antonio Smith and David Anderson, then I'm easily able to admit that I was categorically wrong about Kubiak's future here.

Nice recovery BTW. I had you on my ignore list at one point. (not that my ignore list should mean anything to anyone else)

Welcome back from the brink.

threetoedpete
02-28-2009, 01:13 PM
Well I was correct on Matty. So far he hasn't seen sixteen games. No I have no axe to grind. My only goal for 2009 is getting Andre Johnson to the big game so he'll have a decent shot at getting into the hall. The first step is sweeping two of three division foes. And splitting with the third. Anything that I feel doesn't go down that road I'm going to ***** about. Ahmen Green was a poor move, and I was called grumpy and senile on that one too.

GP
02-28-2009, 01:19 PM
Nice recovery BTW. I had you on my ignore list at one point. (not that my ignore list should mean anything to anyone else)

Welcome back from the brink.

LOL. I understand. I even had myself on my ignore list.

Look, I am puzzled as to how Kubiak has withstood the flames. I seriously am. As an in-game tactician...he ain't getting it done. I think it came out, toward the end of the year, that he was trying to be offensive coordinator and that we're supposed to see Kubiak act more as a head coach: Watching the big picture, not the micro-managing you'd see from a coordinator/assistant.

If that's what happened, cool. If it was pure luck, cool. If it was a team finally playing like it should, cool. But only a few people (here) said we would run the table, or come close to it, with our remaining games. I certainly had my doubts. The easy games? Sure. Games against the Titans and Packers and Bears? Not so sure.

I'm just in that happy place right now. I am also wondering if Rick Smith might be the real factor in all of this. A good GM is a critical component on an NFL team. He can go nuts and plunge you into hell (Jerry Jones), act non-committal either way (Casserly) and shrug his shoulders when the axe falls, or he can help a coach avoid the pitfalls and see the real opportunities that should be examined seriously.

If we continue to be as disciplined in personnel management as we have this offseason, I'm good to go. There's still time for us to go nuts, though, and ruin everything we've got going for us thus far...if that happens, I'm taking up the model ship hobby and taking an extended leave of absence from the boards.

The Pencil Neck
02-28-2009, 01:19 PM
Well I was correct on Matty. So far he hasn't seen sixteen games. No I have no axe to grind. My only goal for 2009 is getting Andre Johnson to the big game so he'll have a decent shot at getting into the hall. The first step is sweeping two of three division foes. And splitting with the third. Anything that I feel doesn't go down that road I'm going to ***** about. Ahmen Green was a poor move, and I was called grumpy and senile on that one too.

You were also a Carr is "God and Will Never Be Let Go" guy. You were the guy that blamed all of Carr's faults on everyone around him. You were also the guy that said that Carr ran the bootleg 24+ times per game on average. You were also the guy that said that they wouldn't run any bootlegs with Schaub because he was too slow.

You getting Schaub not completing a 16 game season in 2 years and Ahman Green not performing right is kinda like a clock being right twice a day.

Goldensilence
02-28-2009, 01:23 PM
If Denver wants to overpay him they're welcome to do so. I'm hoping we don't match the offer.

People are talking about the extra draft pick which is fine because the FO has managed to make two 7th rounders into productive players. I don't want the FO to spend that kind of money on a player that most likely won't get a lot of playing time in the WR rotation. I think we've also got some capable WR on the PS.

I like DA and everyone loves to cheer for a massive over-achiever but I think we can find the same kind of player for the same role for less than this offer sheet.

GP
02-28-2009, 01:28 PM
Well I was correct on Matty. So far he hasn't seen sixteen games. No I have no axe to grind. My only goal for 2009 is getting Andre Johnson to the big game so he'll have a decent shot at getting into the hall. The first step is sweeping two of three division foes. And splitting with the third. Anything that I feel doesn't go down that road I'm going to ***** about. Ahmen Green was a poor move, and I was called grumpy and senile on that one too.

I, too, was as big of a Schaub critic as you. But the Packers game, as well as the 2nd Titans game where he stood there and took shots after getting the pass away, was a complete reversal for me.

I wonder if Sage's meltdown provided an opening. Up until then, I think Matt suffered from a subconscious lack of self confidence...almost like Sage was right there to dash everything if all the stars lined up correctly. Matt was forcing passes, risking too much himself, standing in the pocket too long, neglecting the chance to throw it away when he should have.

The Ahman Green deal represented a foolish attempt to bag "a name" in order to roll out the dice on a position (RB) that was a black hole since the retirement of DD. It didn't subject us to cap hell. We're not having to wait 2-3 years to get out from underneath that deal. Same can be said for the Chris Brown deal: It was foolish, but didn't tie up big money/lots of years. If we gripe about those two deals, we have to also give praise to the Slaton deal.

Come back from the dark side, pete. Much good you can do.

BigBull17
02-28-2009, 01:29 PM
And by the way, there's zero chance we go WR in the 1st round. I think Kubiak and Shanny Jr. are good with what we got. Drafting WR will be done in later rounds as insurance and as grabbing a "project guy" so to speak.

I sense we're loading up on defense this year, similar to what the Bears did one year when almost every pick was defense.

I agree. We'll look in the 4-6 range.

GP
02-28-2009, 01:34 PM
Every time I apologize for being such a turd in the past, I get like 4 or 5 positive reps from people.

So, all you newbie posters wondering how to build up your rep points: Contact me TODAY! to order my training CD-ROM for only $19.95.

Pantherstang84
02-28-2009, 01:35 PM
every time i apologize for being such a turd in the past, i get like 4 or 5 positive reps from people.

So, all you newbie posters wondering how to build up your rep points: Contact me today! To order my training cd-rom for only $19.95.

lol

threetoedpete
02-28-2009, 03:14 PM
You were also a Carr is "God and Will Never Be Let Go" guy. You were the guy that blamed all of Carr's faults on everyone around him. You were also the guy that said that Carr ran the bootleg 24+ times per game on average. You were also the guy that said that they wouldn't run any bootlegs with Schaub because he was too slow.

You getting Schaub not completing a 16 game season in 2 years and Ahman Green not performing right is kinda like a clock being right twice a day.

so far Carr still is in the league. The QB position improved dramatical right after they quit reaching for free agents and slammed it....something more than a few people on these boards griped about. I said we ran the bot leg twelve times a game....and we do. Well considering what the chiefs gave up today up to day for Cassel and a LB, up you to figure out just how fast Matty is ? SO far he isn't fast enough to make sixteen games.

dickieb
02-28-2009, 03:26 PM
I thought I just heard on NFL network that we wouldn't receive any compensation for Anderson unless we match the offer? Wouldn't he stay a Texan if we matched the offer? Maybe I heard wrong but that would suck not to get a pick.

Kaiser Toro
02-28-2009, 03:30 PM
I thought I just heard on NFL network that we wouldn't receive any compensation for Anderson unless we match the offer? Wouldn't he stay a Texan if we matched the offer? Maybe I heard wrong but that would suck not to get a pick.

They did say that, once again proving the Germans love David Hasselhof. These guys can't think on the fly for the amount of material they need to cover. They are not all knowing. We will get a 7th if we do not match.

The Pencil Neck
02-28-2009, 03:52 PM
so far Carr still is in the league. The QB position improved dramatical right after they quit reaching for free agents and slammed it....something more than a few people on these boards griped about. I said we ran the bot leg twelve times a game....and we do. Well considering what the chiefs gave up today up to day for Cassel and a LB, up you to figure out just how fast Matty is ? SO far he isn't fast enough to make sixteen games.

Carr may be in the league but he isn't with the Texans. So you were wrong about that, weren't you?

Let me refresh your memory:
Original Post (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=695060&postcount=11)

.... but they aren't going to run 6-8 bootlegs a quarter with the TE draging across the formation like they ran with you know who. There're not going to put him in space one on one with a wild card DE. They aren't going to do it. There's a big difference in 4.7 forty speed and 5.3 forty speed. Kubes isn't about to risk his new toy forcing him to do things that aren't his strength to his skill set. And running in space isn't one of MS's strengths. He isn't Joe Nameth, but he isn't Steve Young either.


You said we ran the boot 6-8 times a quarter with Carr. And we didn't. 6-8 bootlegs a quarter comes to 24 to 32 bootlegs a game. Heck, we frequently didn't even throw 32 passes a game with Carr back there.

And, I got news, we're still running the bootleg with Schaub and he's really good at it. We're running it as often with Schaub as we were with Carr. He's been hurt in the pocket and he's been hurt trying to escape the pocket but he hasn't been hurt running a bootleg, yet.

This is a tangent we don't need in this thread. But, frankly, I find it incredible when I read you crowing about how right you are about things considering your track record.

GP
02-28-2009, 03:53 PM
I thought I just heard on NFL network that we wouldn't receive any compensation for Anderson unless we match the offer? Wouldn't he stay a Texan if we matched the offer? Maybe I heard wrong but that would suck not to get a pick.

And Foxsports.com said that the Broncos were interested in Texans WR Charlie Anderson (oops! and ouch!).

Hooston Texan
02-28-2009, 05:44 PM
Anderson is the only true slot receiver we have, but it wouldn't depress me to lose him. Davis is not a good slot option--he isn't shifty enough--but he is a way-more-than-adequate insurance policy for AJ. Walter is about as pure a #2 as there is--whoever it was earlier in the thread who compared him to Welker is on crack. JJ is Mike Nelms with a fumbling problem.

The guy I'm enamored with for a slot role is a local kid: Jarret Dillard. I think he is perfectly suited for the slot and could be something more than that.

barrett
02-28-2009, 05:58 PM
They did say that, once again proving the Germans love David Hasselhof. These guys can't think on the fly for the amount of material they need to cover. They are not all knowing. We will get a 7th if we do not match.

but they are hall of famers and have superbowl rings!?! and Shefter has a blackberry. you mean to say they really aren't omnipotent? damn. i'm glad that's not a pay channel! :)

ObsiWan
02-28-2009, 06:34 PM
I agree on all points.

Certain players on this team are starting to show that they're trying to leverage the recent success of the Texans, for personal gain. While that's all good and well, for a player who's trying to get the most that he can, there's also the side of the team's front office who is trying (we hope) to get the most bang for the least amount of buck$.

If we give a defensive back top 5 money, I want that DB to be a top 5 DB with no health issues. Dunta simply cannot command top 5 money from the Texans. Maybe a desperate team would, but the Texans aren't a sinking team anymore. Let the sinkers make that gamble. Not us.

DeMeco's open confessional of what he expects/wants was ill-timed, being that it was on the heels of long-term negotiations stalling between Dunta and the Texans. I wonder if he's had time to analyze his remarks and I wonder if he thinks that it was wise (or "hip") to make those comments, in retrospect.

And now we have David Anderson being wooed by the Broncos, who have made lots of free agency moves in the past day or so. And on the outside, as Texans fans, we might be tempted to see all those free agency moves and think "Wow! They're moving and shaking. If they want David Anderson, then they must really want him. And if they realllly want him, then he must be good enough for us to do whatever it takes to keep him here."

I don't see the Texans blinking on this one. I think the "priority WRs" are AJ, Andre Davis, and Walter. Retaining Owen Daniels is huge, IMO. He acts as a freaking WR when you get right down to it. His ability to get downfield and provide Schaub with an easy outlet/safety-valve is critical to our success.

David Anderson is a role-playing, small'ish slot receiver who gets out there on situational and certain "package" plays. I think we can find that sort of player in rounds 4-through-7 if we can't retain David Anderson.

Save the money. Grab the draft pick. Re-load in the draft, and sign your new slot receiver to a rookie contract that's figured on mid-round money.

And while I admit to being a Sage fan, getting a 4th rounder (with what we DO with 4th rounders) is good for the team. This was the year Sage needed to ride off into the purple and yellow sunset. Good for him, good for us. Win-win situation. I would be thrilled with Pat White in the 2nd if he's still there, which I bet he isn't going to be.

Hear! Hear!
Rep for you and BigBull

Specnatz
02-28-2009, 07:35 PM
"In a surprising move, Denver signed receiver David Anderson, a third-year restricted free agent, to a three-year, $4.5 million offer sheet that includes a $1 million signing bonus. The Texans have a week to match Anderson’s deal or let him go and get a seventh-round pick in return."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6284444.html

Thats chump change, this guy is arguably our third best WR, match it.

While some here are complaining about the terms of this deal and say let him go. Here is what Brandon Jones got, titans #2 rec. [Jones received a five-year, $16.5 million contract with $5.4 million guaranteed.] Of course we have AJ, Walter, OD and Slaton all of whom caught more passes and had more yards. Some keep saying he is our #r WR but he caught more passes and for more yards than Davis and the same amount of TDs as OD. $1.5 Mil a year is nothing for the production.

I will not overreact if we do not match it, but in my opinion is that for the money versus production he is well worth it.

rmartin65
02-28-2009, 08:06 PM
3 years for 4.5 mill? That is worth it to me. Solid production, good character guy.

4Texans
02-28-2009, 09:01 PM
$1.5 Mil a year is nothing for the production.

I will not overreact if we do not match it, but in my opinion is that for the money versus production he is well worth it.

Right, he's worth it. Just match it and sign him.

beerlover
02-28-2009, 09:20 PM
I agree on all points.

do you endorse blank checks too?

Certain players on this team are starting to show that they're trying to leverage the recent success of the Texans, for personal gain.

thats kinda the idea, imagine we all do the same thing @ our jobs.

If we give a defensive back top 5 money, I want that DB to be a top 5 DB with no health issues. Dunta simply cannot command top 5 money from the Texans. Maybe a desperate team would, but the Texans aren't a sinking team anymore. Let the sinkers make that gamble. Not us.

I keep hearing top 5 money what excatly did the Texans offer Dunta? do you know? Given his age, proven ability, leadership & what he means to this team Dunta Robinson should get a higher offer than DeAngelo Hall don't you think?

DeMeco's open confessional of what he expects/wants was ill-timed, being that it was on the heels of long-term negotiations stalling between Dunta and the Texans. I wonder if he's had time to analyze his remarks and I wonder if he thinks that it was wise (or "hip") to make those comments, in retrospect.

news flash!!!!!!!! they are teammates & defensive leaders of the Texans, both playing under their rookie contracts. DeMeco speaking up is as much in support of Dunta, you know that thing called team unity, as projecting forward the same fate his contract year then being franchised.

David Anderson is a role-playing, small'ish slot receiver who gets out there on situational and certain "package" plays. I think we can find that sort of player in rounds 4-through-7 if we can't retain David Anderson.

& we could & throw away three years of progressing development in a still young with his best years ahead of him slot WR. Anderson has real value, otherwise Denver would not have extended the offer. David is beloved as much for his clutch play on the field as his over-achiever attitude reflected in his play. but I guess all he does is block, run his assingments (well) work to the ball when his QB needs an outlet, creates his own end zone shake & fits Kubiak er' Denver system to a T.

I'm in complete, respectfully, disagreement with your position & all those who support that said position. if anything this should help the Texans more than hurt them since all they have to do is match 3 years 4.5 million & lock him up coming into his prime years & not have to worry about for awhile.
I would be thrilled with Pat White in the 2nd if he's still there, which I bet he isn't going to be.

I'll wager Pat White will be there :specnatz:

Vinnie
02-28-2009, 09:49 PM
Wow, it seems steep, but I think they should match on DA. I'd rather have DA over Jacoby. It's telling that the FO is shopping Jacoby and DA is getting offer sheets. Just sayin'.

eriadoc
02-28-2009, 10:01 PM
At 1.5 mill a year, I say match. How much of that is guaranteed, if any? If we were at least getting a 6th round pick, I'd say maybe let him go, but if we let him go for a 7th, we essentially lose on the deal. We'd get our ante back, minus all of the development time and coaching. DA is just now at the point where he can start to seriously become a dangerous tool out of the slot. It took a while to develop that, and now folks want to give that up for nothing.

If the contract was bigger, or if it had a lot of guaranteed money, I'd say let him go. If the compensation was higher, I'd say let him go. But in this case, I really can't see the logic behind letting him go.

rmartin65
03-01-2009, 06:49 PM
Any new information?

GP
03-01-2009, 08:07 PM
beerlover:

We have AJ, Andre Davis, Kevin Walter, and Owen Daniels (whom I expect we will hold onto, or we'll get compensated nicely for him).

David Anderson is just simply not worth it. You can replace him through the draft, signing the rookie to a rookie contract off of mid-round dollar figures.

The dollars we'd save MIGHT be needed down the road. Plus, DA is no more than a 4th WR and special teamer on the Texans.

If DA can get a boost in pay with the Broncos, great. I certainly do not think he is selfish for doing so. And I think I said that players ought to try and get what they want, right? BUT...the team's front office is naturally in the business of trying to save money on certain players.

David Anderson, as good of a guy as he is, is one of those players.

As far as Dunta is concerned: The agent and the Texans are reportedly not anywhere close to an agreement. I wonder why? Because Dunta wants a lot more than the Texans think he's worth. Is that over a teeny tiny bit of difference in dollar amounts? Prolly not.

The fact that we tagged him for $10 million for one year tells me his long-term demands are probably pretty steep. You'd expect Dunta to be holding out for anything other than top 5 money? Top 10 money? It might fall in the 5-10 range. Nobody knows.

I just know that the asking price must have been a shock to the FO's system.

eriadoc
03-02-2009, 08:56 AM
We have AJ, Andre Davis, Kevin Walter, and Owen Daniels (whom I expect we will hold onto, or we'll get compensated nicely for him).

David Anderson is just simply not worth it. You can replace him through the draft, signing the rookie to a rookie contract off of mid-round dollar figures.

OK, I'll bite. How do you figure we can replace him so easily? What round draft pick are you going to spend to get a slot/4th WR (remember, he's the slot ahead of AD, but AD plays the Z)? If you spend a 7th round pick, he's more than likely not going to make our team, or any team in the NFL. Statistics over the years make that clear. Let's just say you do spend a higher draft pick on him - what round? And how likely are you to find a guy that can come in and play that role right away? It usually takes a couple years to develop a guy. We did that with DA and now you want to give him up because of a mere $1.5mil a year?

As I said above, if the return compensation was higher, or if the contract was different, I could see letting the guy go. It's not like I'm attached to a guy with a mullet that may or may not develop into anything more than he is. But if you've invested a few years of development into a guy, you have to consider that as part of the overall package, especially when you have to replace him.

You will not replace DA with another 7th round pick unless you get very lucky AND spend time developing him (again). Marques Colston is a pipe dream. There is no spoon.

The Pencil Neck
03-02-2009, 09:23 AM
OK, I'll bite. How do you figure we can replace him so easily? What round draft pick are you going to spend to get a slot/4th WR (remember, he's the slot ahead of AD, but AD plays the Z)? If you spend a 7th round pick, he's more than likely not going to make our team, or any team in the NFL. Statistics over the years make that clear. Let's just say you do spend a higher draft pick on him - what round? And how likely are you to find a guy that can come in and play that role right away? It usually takes a couple years to develop a guy. We did that with DA and now you want to give him up because of a mere $1.5mil a year?

As I said above, if the return compensation was higher, or if the contract was different, I could see letting the guy go. It's not like I'm attached to a guy with a mullet that may or may not develop into anything more than he is. But if you've invested a few years of development into a guy, you have to consider that as part of the overall package, especially when you have to replace him.

You will not replace DA with another 7th round pick unless you get very lucky AND spend time developing him (again). Marques Colston is a pipe dream. There is no spoon.

But look at it this way, if we bang a lot of our needs in FA (Smith and a RB), then replacing him can move up the chart. Instead of looking for a 7th to replace him, we can look for a slot guy in the 3rd or 4th round who could come in and start day one.

Personally, I'm on the fence on this, though. I'm fine if we match and I'm fine if we don't. With DA and Diles, Smithiak has proven to be pretty good with those 7th round guys.

eriadoc
03-02-2009, 09:25 AM
But look at it this way, if we bang a lot of our needs in FA (Smith and a RB), then replacing him can move up the chart. Instead of looking for a 7th to replace him, we can look for a slot guy in the 3rd or 4th round who could come in and start day one.

That's true. It's still a net loss, if you're talking about ROI. DA is just now coached up to where he can be a significant contributor to someone. If we're OK with that contribution being elsewhere, then so be it. I'm just trying to get people to think about ROI on this one, is all.

If we want to invest even more capital into the slot position, then we can fill that need, sure.

The Pencil Neck
03-02-2009, 09:38 AM
That's true. It's still a net loss, if you're talking about ROI. DA is just now coached up to where he can be a significant contributor to someone. If we're OK with that contribution being elsewhere, then so be it. I'm just trying to get people to think about ROI on this one, is all.

If we want to invest even more capital into the slot position, then we can fill that need, sure.

How many 7th rounders contribute at all? We got a lot out of DA. He's played a lot for us, much more than you have a right to expect out of a 7. So you could look at it's not a net loss, it's not even a break even. We've already reaped rewards with this guy.

GP
03-02-2009, 11:00 AM
OK, I'll bite. How do you figure we can replace him so easily? What round draft pick are you going to spend to get a slot/4th WR (remember, he's the slot ahead of AD, but AD plays the Z)? If you spend a 7th round pick, he's more than likely not going to make our team, or any team in the NFL. Statistics over the years make that clear. Let's just say you do spend a higher draft pick on him - what round? And how likely are you to find a guy that can come in and play that role right away? It usually takes a couple years to develop a guy. We did that with DA and now you want to give him up because of a mere $1.5mil a year?

As I said above, if the return compensation was higher, or if the contract was different, I could see letting the guy go. It's not like I'm attached to a guy with a mullet that may or may not develop into anything more than he is. But if you've invested a few years of development into a guy, you have to consider that as part of the overall package, especially when you have to replace him.

You will not replace DA with another 7th round pick unless you get very lucky AND spend time developing him (again). Marques Colston is a pipe dream. There is no spoon.

Why does it have to be a 7th round pick?

That's where I think a lot of people are losing focus on this issue. We don't have to draft DA's replacement in the 7th round. He could be a guy in round 4 or 5 or 6.

And he'll be there for less money over a 3-year timeframe than DA.

There's an old saying: If everything is a priority, then nothing is a priority.

We are not going to be able to keep every guy who attempts to leave.

barrett
03-02-2009, 11:08 AM
Why does it have to be a 7th round pick?

That's where I think a lot of people are losing focus on this issue. We don't have to draft DA's replacement in the 7th round. He could be a guy in round 4 or 5 or 6.

And he'll be there for less money over a 3-year timeframe than DA.

There's an old saying: If everything is a priority, then nothing is a priority.

We are not going to be able to keep every guy who attempts to leave.

AND THAT'S THE DEFINITION OF VALUE.

Thanks David. Have a good life.

D_Money85
03-02-2009, 11:10 AM
YEah we gotta keep anderson he's a good 4th WR and you can see he plays from the heart when he's out there.

barrett
03-02-2009, 11:18 AM
You take the pick. It's all about value. You gain an extra pick, you get a guy in the draft (now that you've filled several needs already with good value FA's) that you don't have to give a "big" payday to for a slot receiver. You get more value out of a guy that you get on the cheap who can play. Instead of paying Anderson several million you can get a guy for hundreds of thousands over several years.

eriadoc
03-02-2009, 11:25 AM
Why does it have to be a 7th round pick?

Well, it doesn't. To quote myself:

If we want to invest even more capital into the slot position, then we can fill that need, sure.

So sure, we can fill the slot, it's just that we've already filled the slot. It all boils down to a simple question - how much value do you place on player development? If you think the time spent developing DA into a viable slot WR is not worth $1.5 mill, then by all means, let him go.

Building through the draft means you have to develop guys. And you're right, we can't keep all of them, but you have to assign a value to your development process.

The Pencil Neck
03-02-2009, 11:33 AM
So sure, we can fill the slot, it's just that we've already filled the slot. It all boils down to a simple question - how much value do you place on player development? If you think the time spent developing DA into a viable slot WR is not worth $1.5 mill, then by all means, let him go.

Building through the draft means you have to develop guys. And you're right, we can't keep all of them, but you have to assign a value to your development process.

Another part of that question is whether we can fill that spot with someone who may be an upgrade to DA... for less money. I think we can.

Personally, even before him getting this offer, I was hoping that we were going to upgrade that position this offseason. I was hoping that DA would no longer be on the team by the start of the season or at least, no longer be the 4th receiver.

I understand your point, though. We've spent all this time and energy developing this guy over the past few years and now he's going somewhere else and they're going to reap the benefits of our time and effort. I just don't think he's going to be that big of a loss for us.

HOU-TEX
03-04-2009, 11:39 AM
I got to thinking about this last night. What would y'all think about grabbing James Casey in the 3rd to fill this spot? I think he's just as fast if not faster than DA. I think he's faster than his Combine 40. IMO, he seems like a tweener and would be a great slot WR.

There's a good chance he'll be gone in the 2nd, but if he's there in the 3rd you got to grab him. Right? I mean, the dude's an athlete!

My random .02. :)

BigBull17
03-04-2009, 11:44 AM
Maybe we should offer to trade him there for a 5th rounder?

badboy
03-04-2009, 11:48 AM
Why does it have to be a 7th round pick?

That's where I think a lot of people are losing focus on this issue. We don't have to draft DA's replacement in the 7th round. He could be a guy in round 4 or 5 or 6.

And he'll be there for less money over a 3-year timeframe than DA.

There's an old saying: If everything is a priority, then nothing is a priority.

We are not going to be able to keep every guy who attempts to leave.I am watching WR Aaron Kelly#17 since David got a offer. Kelly 6'5" 204 4.49 combine. I have him in 5th IF we take an RB higher than 5th.http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009WR.php

ubecool454
03-04-2009, 11:54 AM
There are a lot of college WRs coming out that can be had in the 7th round that could easily replace Anderson. I like the way he came along and developed but Jacoby Jones (if we don't trade him) can easily replace Anderson with more playing time. I don't know if he will last until the 7th but a player like Quan Cosby would probably be a nice fit here.

Polo
03-04-2009, 12:01 PM
I really like DA as a player and IMHO he is a quicker Owen Daniels in a smaller package. That said, Just like Owen I'd ship him out if the price was right. Not having to pay a slot recvr. more money than they should be paid + a 7th rounder = worth the price. Ship him off.

badboy
03-04-2009, 12:03 PM
There are a lot of college WRs coming out that can be had in the 7th round that could easily replace Anderson. I like the way he came along and developed but Jacoby Jones (if we don't trade him) can easily replace Anderson with more playing time. I don't know if he will last until the 7th but a player like Quan Cosby would probably be a nice fit here.Walters has Cosby rated as the 36th best WR. Good speed but 5'9"

GP
03-04-2009, 01:29 PM
I am watching WR Aaron Kelly#17 since David got a offer. Kelly 6'5" 204 4.49 combine. I have him in 5th IF we take an RB higher than 5th.http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009WR.php

Interesting. That's a great 40-yd. time for being 6'5"....

painekiller
03-04-2009, 02:34 PM
This guy might be the answer, currently he is carrying a 6th or 7th round grade. Johnny Knox (http://draftguys.com/index.php/articles/dgtv_1/johnny_knox_-_wr_-_abilene_christian/)

He is a WR who timed 4.34 and is from Abilene Christian.

Could be the guy to replace JJ and David Anderson.

Spike
03-04-2009, 02:55 PM
There are a lot of college WRs coming out that can be had in the 7th round that could easily replace Anderson. I like the way he came along and developed but Jacoby Jones (if we don't trade him) can easily replace Anderson with more playing time. I don't know if he will last until the 7th but a player like Quan Cosby would probably be a nice fit here.

I think you bring up a good point regarding JJ - and what we do with Anderson will provide a clear indication of what the coaches think about JJ. If the coaches think that JJ can fill this spot, there is no reason to match the offer because you have your 4th receiver and punt returner in one guy. We can find our fifth receiver in the draft (I LOVE Quan) or you should be able to find that guy on the practice squad.

If we bring Anderson back, I think it is safe to assume that JJ is gone.

dtran04
03-04-2009, 03:33 PM
According to Chron, offer has been matched.

D_Money85
03-04-2009, 03:36 PM
Texans match offer for receiver David Anderson

ArlingtonTexan
03-04-2009, 03:37 PM
According to Chron, offer has been matched.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6293740.html

Polo
03-04-2009, 03:40 PM
Wow.

JWarren14
03-04-2009, 03:42 PM
He has been solid when the opportunities were given. I think JJ's days are dwindling day by day, maybe a draft day trade for a team who doesn't get the WRs they were targeting. His trade value is minimal, but I don't think he will have playing time to increase his value next year. I am thinking the Texans draft a RB and WR in the 3rd after 1-2 defense.

I am ready for more string-dances! :splits:

nero THE zero
03-04-2009, 03:44 PM
This is horribly bad news for Jacoby.

There's really no other justification for the Texans matching than the lack of confidence in Jacoby and lack of security for his position on this team. If they were even remotely confident in his development Anderson would be expendable, but given the offer match, Jones doesn't look to have a future on this team.

barrett
03-04-2009, 03:48 PM
It's not what I would have done. I am glad we have him back but I was fine with swapping him out for young and cheap + a pick.

Continuity is grand so long as it's affordable.

badboy
03-04-2009, 03:57 PM
Interesting. That's a great 40-yd. time for being 6'5"....My thoughts exactly. At 1st I thought project 40 but link says combine. He could be good in the red zone if he can take a hit.

badboy
03-04-2009, 04:01 PM
This guy might be the answer, currently he is carrying a 6th or 7th round grade. Johnny Knox (http://draftguys.com/index.php/articles/dgtv_1/johnny_knox_-_wr_-_abilene_christian/)

He is a WR who timed 4.34 and is from Abilene Christian.

Could be the guy to replace JJ and David Anderson.
He is interesting also. I'm going with Kelly due to size/weight +speed.

ArlingtonTexan
03-04-2009, 04:02 PM
Overall it is a meh transaction in my mind.

Anderson's RFA tag was a little over 1 million and he is getting 4.5 over 3 years or 1.5 per season. Not convinced the 500,000 is going to matter either way in 2009.

rmartin65
03-04-2009, 04:03 PM
This guy might be the answer, currently he is carrying a 6th or 7th round grade. Johnny Knox (http://draftguys.com/index.php/articles/dgtv_1/johnny_knox_-_wr_-_abilene_christian/)

He is a WR who timed 4.34 and is from Abilene Christian.

Could be the guy to replace JJ and David Anderson.

I am a huge fan of this guy. I hope we get him, even though we kept Anderson. He would replace JJ.

alphajoker
03-04-2009, 04:03 PM
He may not have the physical attibutes that most teams would like from a WR, but where he lacks in size he more than makes up for with hustle and heart. I'm glad they matched the offer.

badboy
03-04-2009, 04:05 PM
It's not what I would have done. I am glad we have him back but I was fine with swapping him out for young and cheap + a pick.

Continuity is grand so long as it's affordable.I agree, but do not see it as a death knell for JJ UNLESS we draft a WR. Now, I can scratch off using a pick on Kelly. Hmm anyone think Smith may dangle Anderson for a higher pick?

DoCRoN
03-04-2009, 04:05 PM
I saw some of the comments about JJ above. It's interesting that McClain states in the article that DA is the #4 receiver and JJ isn't mentioned in that group. If I read between those lines, does "The General" know something he's not telling us about JJ's future?

Carr Bombed
03-04-2009, 04:06 PM
I bet Anderson is doing his string dance right about now.

GP
03-04-2009, 04:06 PM
We play Abilene Christian every year in the Lone Star Conference.

Johnny Knox is VERY good. His teammate, Bernard Scott (RB) is going to get drafted, too, and will be like a Joseph Addai/Dominic Rhodes-type of RB.

Knox from ACU and Charlie Martin from WTAMU (both teams in the Lone Star Conference) were catching machines, and for big yards. Those two guys are both gone now. I need to do a search and see of Charlie is attempting to get drafted or even go the Undrafted Free Agent route. Martin plays a lot like Kevin Walter: Just always finds a way to get open at the right time.

I'm telling ya'll: the ACU and WTAMU rivalry is HOT. We lost to ACU in this year's playoffs. The score was like 90-80 or something like that. Up and down the field with Martin and Knox and Bernard Scott just putting on a clinic.

I would finally root for a ACU player if we drafted Knox!

Carr Bombed
03-04-2009, 04:07 PM
I saw some of the comments about JJ above. It's interesting that McClain states in the article that DA is the #4 receiver and JJ isn't mentioned in that group. If I read between those lines, does "The General" know something he's not telling us about JJ's future?

Andre Johnson
Kevin Walter
Andre Davis
David Anderson

Jacoby Jones is about to be flushed down the crapper.

GP
03-04-2009, 04:09 PM
In the grand scheme of things, he didn't get a lot of money.

Our WR squad is set. We can draft for depth, but not in such a way as to reach. I was good either way.

infantrycak
03-04-2009, 04:12 PM
Geez folks are quick to flush JJ. We (and most teams) typically carry more than 4 WR's through the season. Plus this one happens to fill a significant special teams role. Don't get your draft pick wallets out too fast.

barrett
03-04-2009, 04:16 PM
Overall it is a meh transaction in my mind.

Anderson's RFA tag was a little over 1 million and he is getting 4.5 over 3 years or 1.5 per season. Not convinced the 500,000 is going to matter either way in 2009.

I think the only reason it's even a debate is because of the potential to have added an extra pick and replace Anderson with a guy that's also really cheap. So in a sense you replace an "expensive" #4 WR with a cheaper one + an extra pick. Like if Jenkins was someone they felt could step in and replace Anderson but for a 2nd year practice squader's price.

Otherwise, retaining the guy who has improved every year, for just a bit more cash was a great move.

rmartin65
03-04-2009, 04:21 PM
We play Abilene Christian every year in the Lone Star Conference.

Johnny Knox is VERY good. His teammate, Bernard Scott (RB) is going to get drafted, too, and will be like a Joseph Addai/Dominic Rhodes-type of RB.

Knox from ACU and Charlie Martin from WTAMU (both teams in the Lone Star Conference) were catching machines, and for big yards. Those two guys are both gone now. I need to do a search and see of Charlie is attempting to get drafted or even go the Undrafted Free Agent route. Martin plays a lot like Kevin Walter: Just always finds a way to get open at the right time.

I'm telling ya'll: the ACU and WTAMU rivalry is HOT. We lost to ACU in this year's playoffs. The score was like 90-80 or something like that. Up and down the field with Martin and Knox and Bernard Scott just putting on a clinic.

I would finally root for a ACU player if we drafted Knox!

All three of the guys you mentioned are on my small school list. As of now I have Scott as the 5th best small school back, Martin is the 5th best small school receiver, and I like Knox as the best small school receiver.

Polo
03-04-2009, 04:25 PM
I don't see JJ going anywhere and I can't imagine us drafting a reciever.

nero THE zero
03-04-2009, 04:29 PM
Geez folks are quick to flush JJ. We (and most teams) typically carry more than 4 WR's through the season. Plus this one happens to fill a significant special teams role. Don't get your draft pick wallets out too fast.

He hasn't figured out how to hold on to the ball in two seasons and has apparently had maturity issues. Bob Allen has also reported that Jacoby is on the trading bloc. That is not to say that Jacoby's departure is imminent. But, the fact that the Texans opted to hold onto Anderson certainly isn't a vote of confidence for Jacoby.

In other words, had the Texans felt that Jacoby had a long future with the organization, I'm not so sure Anderson wouldn't be packing his bags for Denver right now.

False Start
03-04-2009, 04:29 PM
This news makes me happy! :cool:

Blake
03-04-2009, 04:32 PM
Good decision by the Texans.

AJ/Walter/Davis/Anderson/Jones/+1

There is room for everybody! Jones will be back. He is our punt return specialist.

Carr Bombed
03-04-2009, 04:34 PM
Geez folks are quick to flush JJ. We (and most teams) typically carry more than 4 WR's through the season. Plus this one happens to fill a significant special teams role. Don't get your draft pick wallets out too fast.

The F.O./coaching staff doesn't seem too pleased with J.J. and I don't even think he would've been on last year's roster if Harry Williams didn't have the career ending injury. Williams was pushing Jacoby right off the team and I see this team drafting another WR (probably with our extra 4th or 5th round) to push him in camp. I don't think this team sees alot of potential in Jacoby anymore, if he doesn't bring his A game this camp and prove he's progressing as a player I don't expect him to be on the '09 roster.

Carr Bombed
03-04-2009, 04:35 PM
Good decision by the Texans.

AJ/Walter/Davis/Anderson/Jones/+1

There is room for everybody! Jones will be back. He is our punt return specialist.

Punt return specialist who drop balls don't remain punt return specialist for long...Jones is one bad camp from being dropped off the team....he's a camp bubble guy now.

mussop
03-04-2009, 04:38 PM
I don't see JJ going anywhere and I can't imagine us drafting a reciever.

There are several CB's that are return specialist that could be available in the second round. I could see us drafting one and saying, bye bye Kid Dynomite!

DiehardChris
03-04-2009, 04:41 PM
I didn't think they'd match. I'm not a huge fan of DAs, but he's probably more valuable to this team than the average #4WR.

Hopefully his role will expand.

nunusguy
03-04-2009, 04:58 PM
It's probably a downer for DA professionally because the new regime in Denver very likely saw him as more than thier #4 WR.

Blake
03-04-2009, 05:10 PM
There are several CB's that are return specialist that could be available in the second round. I could see us drafting one and saying, bye bye Kid Dynomite!

I guess they dont want to be forced to use a 2nd round pick on a corner since they just drafted Molden and Bennett and franchised Dunta, and signed Reeves.

I have no problem with a corner in round 1 or 2 but I guess they want to go a different direction with the top picks in our draft.

Im not saying JJ wont be cut, but im am saying that he isnt worthless to this team and should be back to compete in camp. But yes, he could get cut if he hasnt worked on fielding punts better.

Blake
03-04-2009, 05:15 PM
It's probably a downer for DA professionally because the new regime in Denver very likely saw him as more than thier #4 WR.

Where do you think he would fit in?

Marshall / Royal / Stokely / Darrell Jackson / Chad Jackson

sbalderrama
03-04-2009, 05:15 PM
Otherwise, retaining the guy who has improved every year, for just a bit more cash was a great move.

Given the price involved, I think a growing team needs to keep a known contributer like DA around rather than taking a crap shoot with another 7th rounder.

barrett
03-04-2009, 05:19 PM
Given the price involved, I think a growing team needs to keep a known contributer like DA around rather than taking a crap shoot with another 7th rounder.

but it wasn't an even swap, the thinking would be that we have other WR's that could step into his role for less money. AND get an extra pick. However, my point was that it was a good decision either way.

barrett
03-04-2009, 05:23 PM
from HT.com

“Coach (Kubiak) called me on the day I got the Broncos’ offer and told me congratulations, but that he wasn’t going to let me go anywhere,” Anderson said. “That put a smile on my face. I always have been a huge fan of coach Kubiak and I’ll never not want to play for that man. “

I like it!

mattieuk
03-04-2009, 05:34 PM
I'm real happy that we've matched with Anderson. Its a sensible move. He produces, and its not worth a 7th rounder to release someone who does everything that is asked of him, with a smile on his face and no baggage to go with it.

RTP2110
03-04-2009, 05:56 PM
There are several CB's that are return specialist that could be available in the second round. I could see us drafting one and saying, bye bye Kid Dynomite!


This is what I was thinking as well. We're deep at WR and thin at DB so why not find a DB who can return kicks, and fill a need at the same time?

JJ is gone IMO. If Jones returned punts and kickoffs he might stay. I don't think they will keep him around just to return punts. He doesn't contribute as a WR, Davis handles kickoffs, and Jones has fumbling issues.

ChampionTexan
03-04-2009, 06:09 PM
It's probably a downer for DA professionally because the new regime in Denver very likely saw him as more than thier #4 WR.

I don't think so. They already had Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal, and they'd just signed Gaffney for more money than they were going to give to DA. The only way he'd be the #3 receiver is if Marshall got suspened for a few games.

Thorn
03-04-2009, 06:40 PM
I like it. He's a role player that can step in when needed and knows our system. I do think JJ is on the bubble this year though whether we kept DA or not.

TexanBacker93
03-04-2009, 06:41 PM
While I had faith that this regime could find someone to replace Anderson in the draft with less financial impact I am glad he is still a member of the team.

nunusguy
03-04-2009, 07:14 PM
I don't think so. They already had Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal, and they'd just signed Gaffney for more money than they were going to give to DA. The only way he'd be the #3 receiver is if Marshall got suspened for a few games.

Isn't Marshall very likely on his way to a suspension, maybe a very long-term one which puts him on the shelf for awhile ?
At any rate maybe the Texans will hear back from Denver, perhaps they might be willing to fork over more than a seventh rounder for DA ?

Jackie Chiles
03-04-2009, 07:32 PM
Within the next year or two he will be a very very cheap #3 WR for us. I'm glad they matched and I look forward to seeing him catch 30-40 balls as soon as next season.

Specnatz
03-04-2009, 07:43 PM
Where do you think he would fit in?

Marshall / Royal / Stokely / Darrell Jackson / Chad Jackson

4 game suspension.

ChampionTexan
03-04-2009, 07:44 PM
Isn't Marshall very likely on his way to a suspension, maybe a very long-term one which puts him on the shelf for awhile ?


Yeah - That's how I said he could be the #3 WR, but given that the arrest that put him in peril didn't happen until Sunday morning, that possibility couldn't have entered into the thinking of the Broncos when they got DA to sign the term sheet.

The charges were subsequently dropped, but Marshall could still be suspended for up to 8 games.

Lucky
03-04-2009, 07:45 PM
This is horribly bad news for Jacoby.

This has nothing to do with Jacoby. Anderson can't return punts. Now if the Texans draft a player who can return punts, that would be horrible news for Jacoby.

The F.O./coaching staff doesn't seem too pleased with J.J. and I don't even think he would've been on last year's roster if Harry Williams didn't have the career ending injury.
Again, that would have not had an impact on Jones. Williams wasn't a punt returner, he was a coverage teams demon. A guy who doesn't make an impact on special teams, like Anderson, would have been in danger with a healthy Harry Williams.


Hopefully his role will expand.
How? Would you throw less to AJ, Walter, or Daniels to give Anderson more touches? Hopefully, those guys stay healthy and Anderson continues to get his 1.5 catches per game.

So Anderson gets $1.5 million guaranteed? That's what he would have made had the Texans given him a 2nd round tender. I would think the Texans would be looking for a more well-rounded player at the back end of the roster. But, it's difficult to get worked up over who will be the 4th WR, so Go Texans. :texflag:

Kaiser Toro
03-04-2009, 07:54 PM
I have no problem with the match and do not feel this has anything to do with JJ, outside of him fighting for a position on the team as WR5/PR during training camp. This match only solidifies DA as WR4 in my opinion.

thunderkyss
03-04-2009, 08:05 PM
pssshhhhhhh........ I'd like to see David Anderson return punts.

76Texan
03-04-2009, 08:16 PM
I'm with those who are fans of David Anderson.
He's a good player, and I am glad to see he got rewarded for his plays the last couple of years.
While he is not a star, he's rock solid, and he's quite important in our offense.

I feel bad for JJ. His plays as a returner were negated by the fumbles.
In the meantime, it was hard to find him enough touches with all the receivers that we had.

I'd like for him to stay and make amend. But on the business side, if we can get a 3rd or even a 4th, I think the Texans would do better to cut loose on the guy.
Otherwise, we will have to evaluate between Jones and Jenkins come next TC.

DiehardChris
03-04-2009, 08:26 PM
How? Would you throw less to AJ, Walter, or Daniels to give Anderson more touches? Hopefully, those guys stay healthy and Anderson continues to get his 1.5 catches per game.

With Shanahan calling plays, I'm thinking more 3WR sets. Davis is obviously not a slot receiver, so DDR is probably your top slot guy unless you count Owen.

Aaron
03-04-2009, 08:29 PM
With Shanahan calling plays, I'm thinking more 3WR sets. Davis is obviously not a slot receiver, so DDR is probably your top slot guy unless you count Owen.

How do you figure?

eriadoc
03-04-2009, 08:33 PM
So Anderson gets $1.5 million guaranteed?

I believe it's 3 yrs., $4.5 million, and $1 million of that is guaranteed. If I'm wrong, someone correct me, but I heard the $1 mill figure on the drive home radio today.

ArlingtonTexan
03-04-2009, 08:39 PM
I believe it's 3 yrs., $4.5 million, and $1 million of that is guaranteed. If I'm wrong, someone correct me, but I heard the $1 mill figure on the drive home radio today.

Unless I read incorrectly he has a million signing bonus as the guarantee.

Lucky
03-04-2009, 08:51 PM
I believe it's 3 yrs., $4.5 million, and $1 million of that is guaranteed. If I'm wrong, someone correct me, but I heard the $1 mill figure on the drive home radio today.
I was counting his 1st year's salary, which is probably around $500K. I can't imagine Anderson not making the team after pocketing the bonus. Though stranger things have happened.

HoustonFrog
03-04-2009, 08:56 PM
I heard him on 1560 today and he was excited and said he read the blog of how people wanted to get rid of the "little white guy." He said Denver wanted to use him like Wes Welker. He was glad to stay though and said he still can show alot. I like his attitude. I think he is the type guy that is good in the locker room. Alot of money for him but hopefully it works.

nero THE zero
03-04-2009, 09:15 PM
This has nothing to do with Jacoby. Anderson can't return punts. Now if the Texans draft a player who can return punts, that would be horrible news for Jacoby.

They play the same position. Or they're supposed to.

If Kubiak had confidence that Jones could become a legitimate receiver, there'd be no reason to match the Bronco's offer. Therefore, the fact that we matched the offer means that we don't see Jacoby as a legitimate receiver.

That's what this has to do with Jacoby.

Lucky
03-04-2009, 09:17 PM
They play the same position. Or they're supposed to.
Both play WR. Only one plays punt returner.

Specnatz
03-04-2009, 09:18 PM
I was counting his 1st year's salary, which is probably around $500K. I can't imagine Anderson not making the team after pocketing the bonus. Though stranger things have happened.

The DE from the Pats last year. I forget his name. But I agree with you.

nero THE zero
03-04-2009, 09:53 PM
Both play WR. Only one plays punt returner.

He's a punt returner who can't hold onto the ball. If he can't be successful at returning punts, we're matching offers for our mediocre receivers, and you've been reported to be on the trading bloc, I'd say your job isn't safe.

The Pencil Neck
03-04-2009, 10:03 PM
How? Would you throw less to AJ, Walter, or Daniels to give Anderson more touches? Hopefully, those guys stay healthy and Anderson continues to get his 1.5 catches per game.


With our improved defense, our offense will have more snaps per game.

That's how.

:specnatz:

The Pencil Neck
03-04-2009, 10:15 PM
pssshhhhhhh........ I'd like to see David Anderson return punts.

Well, we did a couple of years ago in the Titans game and he muffed one or two of them.

Maybe he's gotten better at it.

Joe Texan
03-04-2009, 10:35 PM
Anderson catches everything and is a solid guy to come in for an injury or a tired player. He is also great around the endzone and on 3rd downs. It is great to have him back and it deepens our depth.
I am liking this off season better than any before.

bckey
03-04-2009, 11:49 PM
Anderson catches everything and is a solid guy to come in for an injury or a tired player. He is also great around the endzone and on 3rd downs. It is great to have him back and it deepens our depth.
I am liking this off season better than any before.

What Joe Texan said:goodpost:

Goldensilence
03-05-2009, 12:16 AM
Not thrilled about matching the offer but at the same time he's solid depth. I think that's all he'll be though.

Not sure if this really says anything about Jacoby Jones except be prepared to fight for your roster spot. Nothing that we haven't already known. I like our top two WRs a lot and I think AD is a good option for #3. David might end up being a less productive Wayne Chrebet.

threetoedpete
03-05-2009, 01:41 AM
Carr may be in the league but he isn't with the Texans. So you were wrong about that, weren't you?

Let me refresh your memory:
Original Post (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=695060&postcount=11)


You said we ran the boot 6-8 times a quarter with Carr. And we didn't. 6-8 bootlegs a quarter comes to 24 to 32 bootlegs a game. Heck, we frequently didn't even throw 32 passes a game with Carr back there.

And, I got news, we're still running the bootleg with Schaub and he's really good at it. We're running it as often with Schaub as we were with Carr. He's been hurt in the pocket and he's been hurt trying to escape the pocket but he hasn't been hurt running a bootleg, yet.

This is a tangent we don't need in this thread. But, frankly, I find it incredible when I read you crowing about how right you are about things considering your track record.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=695060&postcount=11


Well I'm not banging the guy. And I certainly am not tring to start another ykw thread....but he isn't John Elway. He is a Good QB and the switch needed to be made.... but they aren't going to run 6-8 bootlegs a quarter with the TE draging across the formation like they ran with you know who. There're not going to put him in space one on one with a wild card DE. They aren't going to do it. There's a big difference in 4.7 forty speed and 5.3 forty speed. Kubes isn't about to risk his new toy forcing him to do things that aren't his strength to his skill set. And running in space isn't one of MS's strengths. He isn't Joe Nameth, but he isn't Steve Young either.


One of us was talking out of his a$$ for sure. the Pittsburg line backers ate his lunch. And in the Oakland game they ran it once the first quarter and we didn't see it again untill the third .

Lucky
03-05-2009, 05:50 AM
He's a punt returner who can't hold onto the ball. If he can't be successful at returning punts, we're matching offers for our mediocre receivers, and you've been reported to be on the trading bloc, I'd say your job isn't safe.
I never said that Jones' job was safe. Just that Anderson is not replacing the job Jones does. The Texans will need an additional player on the roster to match Jacoby's job description. Therefore, the Anderson signing has no effect on Jones' future roster status.
With our improved defense, our offense will have more snaps per game.

That's how.

:specnatz:
The Texans were 8th in the league in total plays, last season. Even if the Texans were to match the highest total in 2008 (by the Patriots), that would mean an additional 4.75 plays/game. How many of those plays go to Anderson, rather than Johnson, Daniels, Slaton, or Walter?

The most likely way for Anderson's role to increase is if the Texans defense is actually worse. If the offense has to abandon the run due to getting down big early in the game, the Texans will go to multiple wideouts more. And Anderon will see more passes. If you look at Anderson's stats, you'll see that he gets the majority of his receptions in Texan losses.

nunusguy
03-05-2009, 07:19 AM
At any rate maybe the Texans will hear back from Denver, perhaps they might be willing to fork over more than a seventh rounder for DA ?
Clearly, the Broncos had plans for Anderson. He even said on 1560 The Game today that the Broncos wanted to use him the way New England uses Wes Welker. Anderson has a lot of value to the Texans - but it sounds like the Broncos value him more… or at least - he’d certainly have a bigger role with them.
**
If the Broncos had those kinds of plans for David Anderson, it might be reasonable to think they would up their offer for him. Obviously, they’re good with his contract since they drew it up… but what if they called up Rick Smith and offered their fifth-round pick? Would you take it?
http://www.houstondiehards.com/

Thorn
03-05-2009, 07:32 AM
but what if they called up Rick Smith and offered their fifth-round pick? Would you take it?
http://www.houstondiehards.com/

I can see where that could be mighty tempting.

Señor Stan
03-05-2009, 07:41 AM
**
If the Broncos had those kinds of plans for David Anderson, it might be reasonable to think they would up their offer for him. Obviously, they’re good with his contract since they drew it up… but what if they called up Rick Smith and offered their fifth-round pick? Would you take it?
http://www.houstondiehards.com/


If that were the case the deal would have been done before the Texans matched the offer. It's a done deal now, a trade would have a negative salary cap effect at this point.

DA is here to stay. Let the string dancing begin.

Goldensilence
03-05-2009, 10:11 AM
Clearly, the Broncos had plans for Anderson. He even said on 1560 The Game today that the Broncos wanted to use him the way New England uses Wes Welker. Anderson has a lot of value to the Texans - but it sounds like the Broncos value him more… or at least - he’d certainly have a bigger role with them.
**
If the Broncos had those kinds of plans for David Anderson, it might be reasonable to think they would up their offer for him. Obviously, they’re good with his contract since they drew it up… but what if they called up Rick Smith and offered their fifth-round pick? Would you take it?
http://www.houstondiehards.com/

Personally I don't see how they could use DA like Wes Welker. The guy made his living in Miami as a KR and a fairly good slot receiver. DA doesn't return kicks and odesn't have the deceptive speed of Wes.

I'm with Lucky on this one. It's not that I'm pro or anti David Anderson as much as I don't see the justification for giving a guy the size of the contract we did for the role he's likely to play on the team. I think we could've found a suitable replacement on the PS or league wide that has the possibility of supplanting Jones as PR. I think we could get Quan Cosby in the 7th of this year's draft to fill that role perfectly. Oh well.

Errant Hothy
03-05-2009, 10:30 AM
Personally I don't see how they could use DA like Wes Welker. The guy made his living in Miami as a KR and a fairly good slot receiver. DA doesn't return kicks and odesn't have the deceptive speed of Wes.

I'm with Lucky on this one. It's not that I'm pro or anti David Anderson as much as I don't see the justification for giving a guy the size of the contract we did for the role he's likely to play on the team. I think we could've found a suitable replacement on the PS or league wide that has the possibility of supplanting Jones as PR. I think we could get Quan Cosby in the 7th of this year's draft to fill that role perfectly. Oh well.

Except that Anderson is a year younger then Cosby, and taller, and has 3 years of NFL expeience. I doubt that Cosby could take Anderson's spot on the roster.

Goldensilence
03-05-2009, 10:38 AM
Except that Anderson is a year younger then Cosby, and taller, and has 3 years of NFL expeience. I doubt that Cosby could take Anderson's spot on the roster.

Difference is he can return kicks. DA can't. Again not pro or against DA just trying to justify the contract in MY mind.

GP
03-05-2009, 10:42 AM
Essentially, the Broncos screwed us by making us up our offer to David Anderson due to their own offer.

Had the Broncos really really really wanted David Anderson, they could have made the offer a little more expensive. Instead, they make it a number we can easily match.

I smell "monetary kickbacks" LOL! David must have called the Broncos front office and offered a little kickback off the Texans matching the Bronco's offer. (cue the String Dance...)

Why did Denver even do this. Sheesh.

hadaad
03-05-2009, 11:37 AM
I think that Denver did that because they saw a player that they thought they might like. They restructured Brandon Stokely, and maybe what they've seen from Anderson is that he could learn a thing or two from the older receiver, maybe pass the legacy on.

I'm glad we matched. I like Anderson, I think he's able to help out where and when he's needed, and really, a million and a half per season is - well... it's a lot of stinkin' money, but in terms of how it affects the cap, it's not that big a number for someone you want on your roster.

As far as them working on this deal, rather than Demeco's or Dunta's, they had to get this done because there was a definite deadline. They have time to work on the other contracts, assuming they're planning on renegotiating Demeco's contract this year, at all. He agreed to the contract he's playing under. If he doesn't like it now, that's too bad.

Polo
03-05-2009, 11:46 AM
Difference is he can return kicks. DA can't. Again not pro or against DA just trying to justify the contract in MY mind.


He does field punts on occasion.

And I'm with you guys...Value wise, I don't see it....But I think that the Texans want to send a message to the players...

They probably figured that it wasn't a huge contract and they get a hard working, do whatever you ask of him type of reciever for the next three years...It keeps comraderie high and players realize that if you work hard and prove to have value to the team and amongst your teammates then they will so whatever they can within reason to keep you on board.

After I though about it, I think it's cool...I like DA...He seems to be well liked on the team, and honestly I think he's a pretty talented player...

Texans Mania
03-05-2009, 01:22 PM
Glad to have him back. Check him out doing a Jaws impression. He's a real cool and funny guy. Long live the string dance!

http://jocklife.com/media-3

Texans Mania
03-05-2009, 01:24 PM
I am glad he is going to be back. He is a great guy to have in the locker room.
Very funny
http://jocklife.com/media-3

The Pencil Neck
03-05-2009, 01:25 PM
The Texans were 8th in the league in total plays, last season. Even if the Texans were to match the highest total in 2008 (by the Patriots), that would mean an additional 4.75 plays/game. How many of those plays go to Anderson, rather than Johnson, Daniels, Slaton, or Walter?

The most likely way for Anderson's role to increase is if the Texans defense is actually worse. If the offense has to abandon the run due to getting down big early in the game, the Texans will go to multiple wideouts more. And Anderon will see more passes. If you look at Anderson's stats, you'll see that he gets the majority of his receptions in Texan losses.

Why so serious? I was just joking around.

DiehardChris
03-05-2009, 01:27 PM
That was pretty great.

I have to admit I've never been a big David Anderson guy - but he's turned me around. I love his personality and sense of humor.

Vinny
03-05-2009, 01:38 PM
Essentially, the Broncos screwed us by making us up our offer to David Anderson due to their own offer.

Had the Broncos really really really wanted David Anderson, they could have made the offer a little more expensive. Instead, they make it a number we can easily match.

I smell "monetary kickbacks" LOL! David must have called the Broncos front office and offered a little kickback off the Texans matching the Bronco's offer. (cue the String Dance...)

Why did Denver even do this. Sheesh.
http://www.dailyanxiety.com/masters4.gif

GP you remind me of Badluck Schleprock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Luck_Schleprock) from the Pebbles and Bam Bam Show. You can find a dark cloud in every silver linking.

Denver didn't screw anyone. The Texans let Anderson find his market worth and the Texans figured it was worth market value to keep him. If Denver likes him more than that they can offer us a higher pick.

76Texan
03-05-2009, 01:44 PM
He does field punts on occasion.

And I'm with you guys...Value wise, I don't see it....But I think that the Texans want to send a message to the players...

They probably figured that it wasn't a huge contract and they get a hard working, do whatever you ask of him type of reciever for the next three years...It keeps comraderie high and players realize that if you work hard and prove to have value to the team and amongst your teammates then they will so whatever they can within reason to keep you on board.

After I though about it, I think it's cool...I like DA...He seems to be well liked on the team, and honestly I think he's a pretty talented player...VALUE = 2 TDs and 11 First downs in 19 receptions!

Key plays:

Bengals - After JJ TD punt return, DA's 6yd-TD bumped the lead to 14-6
Next series, 3rd and 5 @HTN 14, 22 yd catch for first down.
Texans never looked back.

Vikings - 3yd-TD cut the lead to 14-21
Another 9 yd catch on a TD that trimmed the lead to 21-18

@Indy - Texans trailed 27-33 with less than 2 mins.
1st and 10 @HTN 24 - 12 yd first down
2-12 @HTN 34 14 yd first down
1 min left, Rosenfels INT.

@Batl -
2nd and 5 @BAL 24 - 13 yd first down to Vikings 11
Rosenfels INT
A 22 yd catch set up a FG at the half, Texans only trailed 6-12
He would have 2 more first down catches, one on 2-4, one on 3-5

CLV
11yd first down catch on a TD drive, all the Texans needed.

@GB
2 catches in the last drive that set up the winning FG.

Oakl - 65 yd catch to the Raiders' 14, but the Texans settled for a FG

76Texan
03-05-2009, 01:46 PM
http://www.dailyanxiety.com/masters4.gif

GP you remind me of Badluck Schleprock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Luck_Schleprock) from the Pebbles and Bam Bam Show. You can find a dark cloud in every silver linking.

Denver didn't screw anyone. The Texans let Anderson find his market worth and the Texans figured it was worth market value to keep him. If Denver likes him more than that they can offer us a higher pick.:spit:

Polo
03-05-2009, 01:56 PM
VALUE = 2 TDs and 11 First downs in 19 receptions!

Key plays:

Bengals - After JJ TD punt return, DA's 6yd-TD bumped the lead to 14-6
Next series, 3rd and 5 @HTN 14, 22 yd catch for first down.
Texans never looked back.

Vikings - 3yd-TD cut the lead to 14-21
Another 9 yd catch on a TD that trimmed the lead to 21-18

@Indy - Texans trailed 27-33 with less than 2 mins.
1st and 10 @HTN 24 - 12 yd first down
2-12 @HTN 34 14 yd first down
1 min left, Rosenfels INT.

@Batl -
2nd and 5 @BAL 24 - 13 yd first down to Vikings 11
Rosenfels INT
A 22 yd catch set up a FG at the half, Texans only trailed 6-12
He would have 2 more first down catches, one on 2-4, one on 3-5

CLV
11yd first down catch on a TD drive, all the Texans needed.

@GB
2 catches in the last drive that set up the winning FG.

Oakl - 65 yd catch to the Raiders' 14, but the Texans settled for a FG

How hard is it to find a player to produce those stats ?

If he does that again that means we're paying more for the same thing. If his production doesn't increase, then IMO, value wise, it didn't make a lot of sense.

David Anderson mostly has good stats when we play bad as a team anyways.

76Texan
03-05-2009, 02:03 PM
How hard is it to find a player to produce those stats ?

If he does that again that means we're paying more for the same thing. If his production doesn't increase, then IMO, value wise, it didn't make a lot of sense.

David Anderson mostly has good stats when we play bad as a team anyways.

Give me an example of a 7th rounder or a FA earning about the same money?!?

badboy
03-05-2009, 02:07 PM
How hard is it to find a player to produce those stats ?

If he does that again that means we're paying more for the same thing. If his production doesn't increase, then IMO, value wise, it didn't make a lot of sense.

David Anderson mostly has good stats when we play bad as a team anyways.Sometimes it helps to have a solid guy that can step up and you feel comfortable with like AJ going down and "the other Andre" stepping up.

ChampionTexan
03-05-2009, 02:14 PM
How hard is it to find a player to produce those stats ?



Two out of two NFL teams asked that question said it was hard enough that they were willing to give up a 7th round pick in order to not have to try.

Granted, there are 30 remaining NFL teams, but all we know is that of the two that were asked, the response was unanimous.

WesmanTexanfan
03-05-2009, 02:19 PM
Im very glad to see this guy stay in a Texans uniform. He can really turn into a factor on offense next year. I think we got a good deal on him too, if he can do what I think he can do.

Polo
03-05-2009, 02:20 PM
Two out of two NFL teams asked that question said it was hard enough that they were willing to give up a 7th round pick in order to not have to try.

Granted, there are 30 remaining NFL teams, but all we know is that of the two that were asked, the response was unanimous.

I imagine they were willing to give up that money because they envisioned him playing a bigger role with their team than he is playing with us. He may be worth the money as a player, but I'm not gonna pay Tom Brady to back-up Peyton Manning.

Now another team may give Tom 100mil dollars, cool, but I'm not gonna pay that money to a back-up who won't play a lot.

ChampionTexan
03-05-2009, 02:28 PM
I imagine they were willing to give up that money because they envisioned him playing a bigger role with their team than he is playing with us. He may be worth the money as a player, but I'm not gonna pay Tom Brady to back-up Peyton Manning.

Now another team may give Tom 100mil dollars, cool, but I'm not gonna pay that money to a back-up who won't play a lot.

This has been discussed ad nauseum, but between Marshall, Royal, Gaffney, Scheffler and Stokley, it's pretty unlikely that he was going to be a bigger piece of the Denver offense than he will be in ours.

I don't know exactly what type of offense McDaniel's going to be running in Denver, but to put it in perspective, the #4 WR in the New England offense last year (which is the best Anderson could have realistically expected to nail down for the Broncos) caught a grand total of 8 passes, or less than half of Anderson's productivity with the Texans. It's also less than the 13 catches Andre Davis (The Texans #4 WR in terms of productivity) had.

Goldensilence
03-05-2009, 02:44 PM
Give me an example of a 7th rounder or a FA earning about the same money?!?

I think that's the point. Name another #4 that has a contract like that.

El Tejano
03-05-2009, 02:55 PM
It's the strength of our team. That's why he is paid like that.

infantrycak
03-05-2009, 02:58 PM
Man people are worrying an awful lot about a small amount of money.

Specnatz
03-05-2009, 03:06 PM
Man people are worrying an awful lot about a small amount of money.

No kidding.