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View Full Version : Rumor: Mike Vrabel + Matt Cassel to Chiefs for 3rd overall pick


GuerillaBlack
02-27-2009, 04:42 PM
WEEI 850AM (Boston sports radio) is reporting the full deal with the Chiefs will be Vrabel, and Cassell (pending a physical) in exchange for the Chiefs #3 overall pick. Wow if this happens.

texasguy346
02-27-2009, 04:45 PM
Sam Cassell? Didn't know he played football. But I guess with him being an alien perhaps he's a shapeshifter as well.

http://images.wikia.com/openserving/sports/images/9/98/SamCassellET.jpg


Want me to change it to Matt Cassel?

GuerillaBlack
02-27-2009, 04:47 PM
Haha, yeah, that's what I meant.

The Pencil Neck
02-27-2009, 04:50 PM
Wow.

That's going to shake up a few mocks.

Sanchez is gonna plummet now.

Mailman
02-27-2009, 04:54 PM
WEEI 850AM (Boston sports radio) is reporting the full deal with the Chiefs will be Vrabel, and Cassell (pending a physical) in exchange for the Chiefs #3 overall pick. Wow if this happens.

Nothing on their webpage about it. Link?

TEXANS84
02-27-2009, 04:57 PM
The Patriots are genius. Keep drafting and re-loading.

Maddict5
02-27-2009, 04:57 PM
its true.. bill wants curry methinks

Texecutioner
02-27-2009, 04:58 PM
Damn man, Pioli is the man. Dude is getting some deals done for the Chiefs and making moves fast. Geez, I wish we could get a guy like that for our GM. That will be a sweet deal in my opinion for both teams.

I wonder if the Pats are going to go after Curry now. Since Vrabel will be gone they'll be able to get Curry possibly and put him next to Mayo. Scary combo there.

stingray
02-27-2009, 05:08 PM
Damn man, Pioli is the man. Dude is getting some deals done for the Chiefs and making moves fast. Geez, I wish we could get a guy like that for our GM. That will be a sweet deal in my opinion for both teams.

I wonder if the Pats are going to go after Curry now. Since Vrabel will be gone they'll be able to get Curry possibly and put him next to Mayo. Scary combo there.

I think the Lions are gonna draft Curry. I heard their new GM doesn't really like Stafford or Sanchez and loves Curry.

Silver Oak
02-27-2009, 05:08 PM
its true.. bill wants curry methinks

you may be right about Curry, but he's already got the real deal in this one.

http://cdn.kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com-s1.simplecdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/belichick.jpg

Mailman
02-27-2009, 05:09 PM
Is this just speculation right now? I can't find anything out there corroborating this rumor.

GuerillaBlack
02-27-2009, 05:11 PM
The Patriots are the Spurs of the NFL. Watch Fred Taylor turn into beast mode with them.

Texecutioner
02-27-2009, 05:15 PM
The Patriots are the Spurs of the NFL. Watch Fred Taylor turn into beast mode with them.

Yeah, that is true they pretty much are.

I think Morey is just as good as any GM in the NBA though.

rmartin65
02-27-2009, 05:16 PM
Wow, this would be huge. Vrabel is a good player, he will bring good leadership to KC. And Cassel will be the teams QB for years. A good deal for KC, New England does ok too.

TimeKiller
02-27-2009, 05:20 PM
Wow, that Sam Cassell pic is probably the funniest thing I've ever seen....

This deal is epic if true. New England keeps the other 1st too? 1st thought is Bill B wants Curry to tag team with Mayo.

The Pencil Neck
02-27-2009, 05:26 PM
On a Saints board, they're reporting that Cassel is going to the Buccs.

stingray
02-27-2009, 05:28 PM
I am now hearing that the trade is this..

Vrabel, Cassell, and pats (23)1st round pick for Chiefs 3rd overall pick and third round pick.

Maddict5
02-27-2009, 05:35 PM
Damn man, Pioli is the man. Dude is getting some deals done for the Chiefs and making moves fast. Geez, I wish we could get a guy like that for our GM. That will be a sweet deal in my opinion for both teams.

I wonder if the Pats are going to go after Curry now. Since Vrabel will be gone they'll be able to get Curry possibly and put him next to Mayo. Scary combo there.


if my gm traded no. 3 overall for matt cassell id be pretty pissed

rmartin65
02-27-2009, 05:41 PM
So is it KC or Tampa? I am confused. I am the Patriots GM in this mock draft, I need details!

Maddict5
02-27-2009, 05:44 PM
I am now hearing that the trade is this..

Vrabel, Cassell, and pats (23)1st round pick for Chiefs 3rd overall pick and third round pick.

now thats a pretty fair deal for KC other than what was first reported

ArlingtonTexan
02-27-2009, 05:45 PM
So is it KC or Tampa? I am confused. I am the Patriots GM in this mock draft, I need details!


I deleted the false TB rumor that I ran into. the other one is being reported on another message board

Maddict5
02-27-2009, 05:46 PM
its kc, bucs story was fake

ChampionTexan
02-27-2009, 05:47 PM
WEEI 850AM (Boston sports radio) is reporting the full deal with the Chiefs will be Vrabel, and Cassell (pending a physical) in exchange for the Chiefs #3 overall pick. Wow if this happens.

There's nothing on their website about Cassell that I can find - just Vrabel.

http://www.weei.com/

JayCee
02-27-2009, 05:47 PM
wow, if they get the 3rd, Pats will now have either Curry or Orakpo to pick from.

Mailman
02-27-2009, 05:50 PM
There's nothing on their website about Cassell that I can find - just Vrabel.

http://www.weei.com/

Yeah I'd like to know where he read this because I doubt he's actually listening to that Sawx station.

IMO this is pure internet speculation at this point.

TEXANS84
02-27-2009, 06:03 PM
I am now hearing that the trade is this..

Vrabel, Cassell, and pats (23)1st round pick for Chiefs 3rd overall pick and third round pick.

Where are you guys hearing this?

stingray
02-27-2009, 06:04 PM
Where are you guys hearing this?

I heard it on the radio.. That it's only a rumor though..

TEXANS84
02-27-2009, 06:08 PM
I heard it on the radio.. That it's only a rumor though..


What station have you heard that from?

gtexan02
02-27-2009, 06:12 PM
I wouldn't give up a 4th round pick for Cassel. He stepped into the best offense in the entire NFL. I don't see what the hoopla is all about. Great OL + Great WRs + Great coach equates to overated Cassel.

I think the Pats franchised Cassel just to bring up his value. Make it look like they really wanted to keep him,all the while having no intention of it

stingray
02-27-2009, 06:15 PM
What station have you heard that from?

I heard a caller talking about it on Sirius NFL Radio. And I also read it on the pats message board. These are just rumors but they usually come true. But I think something would have come out by now.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/219503-speculation-vrabel-part-bigger-deal-involving-cassel-decent-source.html#post1295509

Sal Rosenberg
02-27-2009, 06:32 PM
KC is getting the better deal as fas as I can see.

4Texans
02-28-2009, 06:58 AM
KC is getting the better deal as fas as I can see.

I agree. If KC gets those two players, and still has a 1st round pick this year,,,,,, that's awesome. Very smooth move by KC.

stingray
02-28-2009, 08:18 AM
This has to be just a rumor. Something should have come out by now.

DBCooper
02-28-2009, 08:31 AM
I wouldn't give up a 4th round pick for Cassel. He stepped into the best offense in the entire NFL. I don't see what the hoopla is all about. Great OL + Great WRs + Great coach equates to overated Cassel.

I think the Pats franchised Cassel just to bring up his value. Make it look like they really wanted to keep him,all the while having no intention of it

Two impact players and they still have a first round pick?

KC made a steal.

Cassel is an upgrade over whoever the Chiefs have (?).


Could've had a Rosencopter for a fourth though.

GuerillaBlack
02-28-2009, 08:42 AM
This has to be just a rumor. Something should have come out by now.

Yeah. Boston radio lied.

But KC wouldn't have a first round pick. They would give it up their pick for Cassel and Vrabel.

awtysst
02-28-2009, 09:04 AM
Two impact players and they still have a first round pick?

KC made a steal.

Cassel is an upgrade over whoever the Chiefs have (?).


Could've had a Rosencopter for a fourth though.

Thigpin.

Kaiser Toro
02-28-2009, 09:07 AM
I am closing this one down as Vrabel was traded to KC.

The Pencil Neck
02-28-2009, 11:54 AM
Per NFLN and Schefter.

Specnatz
02-28-2009, 12:01 PM
Per NFLN and Schefter.

It is listed on top of the home page but not link or other info.

ArlingtonTexan
02-28-2009, 12:02 PM
profootballtalk.com

Wow.

Less than a week ago, I opined at SportingNews.com that the Chiefs and the Patriots wouldn't be able to work out a trade for quarterback Matt Cassel because each side would be overly concerned about the perception that the other got the better side of the bargain.

So much for that.

Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that the deal is done -- Cassel has been traded from the Patriots to the Chiefs.

More details and reaction to come.

Discuss (0 Comments) Link to this

Mailman
02-28-2009, 12:04 PM
And there it is. Interested to hear the details. Are they swapping first round picks?

The Pencil Neck
02-28-2009, 12:06 PM
And there it is. Interested to hear the details. Are they swapping first round picks?

So far, Schefter hasn't heard any of the details of the deal.

He's even speculated that Gonzalez may be involved. But right now, no one knows what's going on.

Specnatz
02-28-2009, 12:08 PM
So far, Schefter hasn't heard any of the details of the deal.

He's even speculated that Gonzalez may be involved. But right now, no one knows what's going on.

If that is the case then swapping first round picks could be explained.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2009, 12:10 PM
If they are swapping firsts, I bet NE is praying that Curry is still there at 3. You could build a solid LB corp around Mayo and Curry.

mexican_texan
02-28-2009, 12:23 PM
KC can't afford to keep Cassel and the 3rd overall pick, so that has to be included. With Dorsey getting paid last year, the Chiefs probably don't want to pay for another unproven high draft pick.

Jackie Chiles
02-28-2009, 12:27 PM
KC can't afford to keep Cassel and the 3rd overall pick, so that has to be included. With Dorsey getting paid last year, the Chiefs probably don't want to pay for another unproven high draft pick.

I doubt the 3rd pick is included in this deal. I have been hearing 2nd rounder this year plus a conditional pick next year. They have a ton of cap space.

The Pencil Neck
02-28-2009, 12:28 PM
Schefter has just said that Cassel will PROBABLY and ALMOST CERTAINLY go to the Chiefs.

But there's a possible trade in place with another, mystery team. So the GM's are playing each other right now.

brakos82
02-28-2009, 12:29 PM
Sounds like there's a "Third Team" according to Shefter... :stirpot:

Damn you Pencil Neck.

Jackie Chiles
02-28-2009, 12:30 PM
Sounds like there's a "Third Team" according to Shefter... :stirpot:

Damn you Pencil Neck.

The third team is the Orlando Magic and the player they are moving is Rafer Alston! I win.

GuerillaBlack
02-28-2009, 12:39 PM
So can we bump my thread back up then? I was right.

mexican_texan
02-28-2009, 12:43 PM
A second round pick. A second round pick. We paid twice as much for Schaub.

Jackie Chiles
02-28-2009, 12:43 PM
So can we bump my thread back up then? I was right.

Ironic that the thread was locked just a few hours before you were proven right.

The Pencil Neck
02-28-2009, 12:48 PM
I actually went to put this in that old thread and found it closed.

GuerillaBlack
02-28-2009, 12:50 PM
Ironic that the thread was locked just a few hours before you were proven right.

Funny how this happens.

It happened to me back when Bernie Mac died, too. :)

The Pencil Neck
02-28-2009, 12:54 PM
And now your thread is back. :)

texasguy346
02-28-2009, 12:57 PM
And now your thread is back. :)

The secret is clicking your heels together & saying "Please Re-Open my thread" over & over again. It works best if you're wearing shoes that you've just stolen off a witch who was crushed by a house.

GuerillaBlack
02-28-2009, 01:00 PM
The secret is clicking your heels together & saying "Please Re-Open my thread" over & over again. It works best if you're wearing shoes that you've just stolen off a witch who was crushed by a house.

I just cried for a little bit and got my way.

texasguy346
02-28-2009, 01:01 PM
I just cried for a little bit and got my way.

Come on now. I've got mod super powers. They're kind of like real super powers only not as cool, and chicks don't dig them. I see those ruby red slippers you have on.:shades:

GuerillaBlack
02-28-2009, 01:04 PM
Come on now. I've got mod super powers. They're kind of like real super powers only not as cool, and chicks don't dig them. I see those ruby red slippers you have on.:shades:

:)

Yep yep.

Mailman
02-28-2009, 01:29 PM
So can we bump my thread back up then? I was right.

Except for the compensation part. The Chiefs are keeping their first round pick.

Unfugginbeeleebable.

Jackie Chiles
02-28-2009, 01:33 PM
Except for the compensation part. The Chiefs are keeping their first round pick.

Unfugginbeeleebable.

Yeah, thats a solid deal for the Chiefs. They did have a nice bit of leverage with Cassel counting almost 15 mil against the Pat's cap this season though.

Specnatz
02-28-2009, 01:33 PM
Patriots trade Cassel to Chiefs

Posted: Adam Schefter | Adam Schefter | Tags: Kansas City Chiefs, Matt Cassel, New England Patriots

The Kansas City Chiefs have completed a trade for New England Patriots quarterback Matt Cassel. There is no new contract in place, but the teams have agreed on compensation details of which were not immediately available.

But it is a done deal. Cassel is going to Kansas City.

Looks like a done deal just no details yet.

thunderkyss
02-28-2009, 01:38 PM
A second round pick. A second round pick. We paid twice as much for Schaub.

You've got to think Pioli's connections had something to do with that.

But considering they are getting a QB that went 11-5, starting 15 games + a solid but aging LB, all for a high 2nd...

yeah, we may have overpaid.

GuerillaBlack
02-28-2009, 01:39 PM
Except for the compensation part. The Chiefs are keeping their first round pick.

Unfugginbeeleebable.

They aren't at least swapping?

The Pencil Neck
02-28-2009, 01:49 PM
I'm not believing this deal. Pioli had to have some sort of extortion material to pull this one off.

Mailman
02-28-2009, 01:51 PM
They aren't at least swapping?

Nope. KC got Cassel and Vrabel for the 34th overall pick.

b0ng
02-28-2009, 01:53 PM
You've got to think Pioli's connections had something to do with that.

But considering they are getting a QB that went 11-5, starting 15 games + a solid but aging LB, all for a high 2nd...

yeah, we may have overpaid.

I'm not going to single you out, I've just seen a few posts that have said the same thing.

The dynamics of this trade are not the same as the Schaub deal, so everybody should probably cool their jets on the comparisons.

1.) We did not have the former Falcons GM laboring on our side of the deal

2.) Schaub was not going to cost a ton of cap space to the Falcons so they did not HAVE to trade him if they didn't want to.

3.) Schaub did not have the Pats '08 offense around him and therefore he was more of an unknown.

But yes, this does sound like a pretty good deal for the Chiefs. Pats are okay with this because they have room in their cap.

ChampionTexan
02-28-2009, 01:59 PM
I'm not believing this deal. Pioli had to have some sort of extortion material to pull this one off.

Perhaps some, but keep in mind that one difference between Cassell and Schaub is that Schaub was a tendered RFA in the year we traded for him, and Atlanta had the option to sign him to a one-year tender at $2,350,000 (None of which was guaranteed) if they chose not to trade him.

Cassell would have been an UFA meaning New England had to franchise him to guarantee they could get something for him. Had they not traded him, they would have owed him slightly over $14 Million for the 2009 season, 100% of which was guaranteed.

The Patriots were much more motivated than Atlanta was.

Specnatz
02-28-2009, 02:01 PM
I think it also has to do with trimming cap space for the Patriots.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-5-572/Belichick-comments-on-Vrabel--Cassel.html

mattieuk
02-28-2009, 02:06 PM
I think KC have the much sweeter deal out of this deal. I think the third pick would have been too high, but the 34th is too low for the two. Whilst Cassel is somewhat unproven, I think his last year, along with Vrabel warranted more of a low first round pick, so if I were the Pats I would have been pushing for at least a 4th to go with the second, perhaps a 3rd.

But still, interesting deal, and it'll be nice to see Cassel out of the QB friendly system in New England.

Fox
02-28-2009, 02:31 PM
Unbelievable deal for KC...

Sal Rosenberg
02-28-2009, 03:01 PM
This is the steal of the offseason.Is Belichick losing his marbles?

Kaiser Toro
02-28-2009, 03:11 PM
Fair trade since Vrabel is part of the mix. I do not see Cassel having much more of an impact than Thigpen.

TexanSam
02-28-2009, 03:14 PM
This is the steal of the offseason.Is Belichick losing his marbles?

The only thing I can think of is that he's being nice to Pioli

JayCee
02-28-2009, 04:41 PM
i don't think this is a steal for the Chiefs - Cassel is still a big unknown and isn't going to have the same weapons that the Pats have.

TexansSeminole
02-28-2009, 05:10 PM
I'm on the this is smart for the Pats side.

Cassel played with a damn good offense, so he is a bit unproven. The KC offense will be much different.

I am not sure Vrabel will be the same player in a different defense.

Mailman
02-28-2009, 06:53 PM
i don't think this is a steal for the Chiefs - Cassel is still a big unknown and isn't going to have the same weapons that the Pats have.

Fair point about Cassel and the Pats offense, but in terms of market value the Chiefs got over on the Pats. Cassel proved himself over the course of a season at the most important position in the game. If that's not worth a first-round pick or multiple seconds I don't know what is.

JWarren14
02-28-2009, 08:45 PM
It was rumored that Cassel was headed to Denver and Cutler to Tampa Bay and compensation from TB to New England...now Cutler is PISSED! Interesting situation up in Colorado.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2009, 08:50 PM
You've got to think Pioli's connections had something to do with that.

But considering they are getting a QB that went 11-5, starting 15 games + a solid but aging LB, all for a high 2nd...

yeah, we may have overpaid.

That and KC will take Vrabel's cap hit, unless he restructures.

Specnatz
02-28-2009, 08:56 PM
I think it also has to do with trimming cap space for the Patriots.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-5-572/Belichick-comments-on-Vrabel--Cassel.html

That and KC will take Vrabel's cap hit, unless he restructures.

Good point

Errant Hothy
02-28-2009, 08:58 PM
Good point

It was wasn't it.

:D

Mailman
02-28-2009, 09:17 PM
How does NE's cap situation justify the laughably low price KC paid for an NFL starting quarterback? Regardless of what we may think about Cassel's long-term production, there is no disputing the fact that multiple NFL teams need a starting quarterback and would probably be willing to pay more than KC paid. What did the Chargers get for Eli Manning? Rivers, a 3rd in '04, and a 1st and 5th in '05. Then, of course, there's the Schaub deal.

Cassel for the 34th pick. WTF.

Specnatz
02-28-2009, 09:26 PM
How does NE's cap situation justify the laughably low price KC paid for an NFL starting quarterback? Regardless of what we may think about Cassel's long-term production, there is no disputing the fact that multiple NFL teams need a starting quarterback and would probably be willing to pay more than KC paid. What did the Chargers get for Eli Manning? Rivers, a 3rd in '04, and a 1st and 5th in '05. Then, of course, there's the Schaub deal.

Cassel for the 34th pick. WTF.

1. Cassel has one year starting exp since HS, not to mention his productivity on a team loaded with talent. (Scott Mitchell anyone).

2. Cassel was due $14+ Mil

3. Vrabel's contract.

Now while I think they could have gotten a 4th or 5th next as well, but they did get the 34th overall. The other teams needing a QB were in the mid-range of what ever rounds traded not at the top.

This move allows the Patriots to go after more FAs this year versus waiting.

Mailman
02-28-2009, 09:51 PM
1. Cassel has one year starting exp since HS, not to mention his productivity on a team loaded with talent. (Scott Mitchell anyone).

2. Cassel was due $14+ Mil

3. Vrabel's contract.

Now while I think they could have gotten a 4th or 5th next as well, but they did get the 34th overall. The other teams needing a QB were in the mid-range of what ever rounds traded not at the top.

This move allows the Patriots to go after more FAs this year versus waiting.

1. He may only have one year starting experience, but he also has four training camps, four years of practices and OTAs, and countless hours of film study under his belt. That off-field experience matters, as evidenced by the play of backups-turned-starters like Schaub, Hasselbeck, and Aaron Rodgers. NFL teams know the value of those years watching and learning on the sideline. Cassel has proven himself fully capable of being a legit NFL starter.

2. Yes, which is why everyone expected him to get traded. I'm certain the Chiefs weren't the only team willing to pay him big money to be their starting quarterback.

3. I don't follow. Vrabel's contract wasn't crazy expensive.

The question I'm asking is simple. Surely there was a market for Cassel willing to pay a higher price than one second round pick. Why were the Pats not taking full advantage of it considering the market price established by previous QB trades?

beerlover
02-28-2009, 09:52 PM
nobody understands the Pats better or the abilties of Matt Cassel, just who do you think originally signed him anyway :thinking:

NE was so scared Cassel would walk once he hit the open free agent market they franchised him. this was their leverage to add a high pick, though speaking of leveraging didn't Mr. Charlie Casserly get a 3rd. for Drew Henson, even sweeter still from the cowbabies. on another level a draft pick is a draft pick, I think they've become over-rated (imagine me saying this) its a much safer wiser route to take the bird in hand approach & while Cassel has only one year of NFL experience his development from the beginning to the end was remarkable if anyone had not paid attention. Matt was carving teams up @ the finish, if they had made the playoffs I wonder if we even have this discussion today? He looked every bit the part of a legitimate NFL QB & you know what, there are alot of teams who still need one :shades:

its also wise when converting to a new system/scheme that the GM brings in key players who know & understand the system he wants to run. Vrabel will be excellent in his new leadership role & can still be effective as they convert to the 3-4. with all these teams converting to 3-4 scheme the OLB's are now gonna be targeted earlier rather than afterthoughts thanks to Bellichick & Scott Pioli work in NE & other successful teams around the league like Pittsburgh who have those fearsome pass rushing outside linebackers.

its a win win trade, but probably more important in the long run to KC than to NE. makes my job a whole lot easier in our member mock as well :)

b0ng
02-28-2009, 11:23 PM
The question I'm asking is simple. Surely there was a market for Cassel willing to pay a higher price than one second round pick. Why were the Pats not taking full advantage of it considering the market price established by previous QB trades?

If you think that the Pats could've gotten a first for Cassel don't you think they would've jumped at the opportunity? The NFL is cut throat and when you make a mistake (Franchising your backup QB) you will pay for it. There is no way in hell that a team is going to think Cassel is so the man that they would give up their firsts for him because that deal never materialized.

Also, Cassel proved that he can win with a great O-line and a receiving corps that has to rank in the top 5. No way can you possibly expect him to replicate that unless he goes to the Cardinals, the Texans or the Colts really.

Specnatz
03-01-2009, 12:07 AM
The question I'm asking is simple. Surely there was a market for Cassel willing to pay a higher price than one second round pick. Why were the Pats not taking full advantage of it considering the market price established by previous QB trades?

If you want to go by the draft chart yeah fine the Chefs made out like a bandit compared to the Schaub trade. But guess what the economics have changed and the cap numbers of each QB are completely different. If you think that money is not a huge part of this then you are fooling yourself.

Mailman
03-01-2009, 12:09 AM
If you think that the Pats could've gotten a first for Cassel don't you think they would've jumped at the opportunity?

Did they try? Did they work the market? I don't know, but it sure doesn't seem like they did. There's a lot of speculation about the Pats giving Pioli a friends and family discount, and when you consider that prior to the opening of the free agency almost everyone universally agreed the price for Cassel would be a first rounder + (_____), you have to wonder if there's some truth to this. If anything, wouldn't Detroit likely have been more than willing to give up their second round pick (#33) and at least another pick in this draft or a future draft for Cassel? Wouldn't Tampa Bay probably be willing to pay more?

The NFL is cut throat and when you make a mistake (Franchising your backup QB) you will pay for it.

The Pats did not make a mistake franchising him. They would've lost him in free agency and gotten less of a return than they did.

There is no way in hell that a team is going to think Cassel is so the man that they would give up their firsts for him because that deal never materialized. Also, Cassel proved that he can win with a great O-line and a receiving corps that has to rank in the top 5. No way can you possibly expect him to replicate that unless he goes to the Cardinals, the Texans or the Colts really.

You seem to have forgotten how highly teams value the qb position. I expect many teams think Cassel is worth a first round pick. If Schaub was worth a swap of firsts and two seconds, Cassel is worth a first. To put the trade in perspective, the Pats gave up Matt Cassel for the exact same price the Eagles surrendered AJ Feeley to Miami in 2004. AJ Feeley. If AJ freakin Feeley is worth the 35th overall pick, somebody got hosed in the Cassel trade, and it wasn't the newly hired GM in Missouri.

Mailman
03-01-2009, 12:14 AM
If you want to go by the draft chart yeah fine the Chefs made out like a bandit compared to the Schaub trade. But guess what the economics have changed and the cap numbers of each QB are completely different. If you think that money is not a huge part of this then you are fooling yourself.

Of course money is important. So what. Teams will pay it because they'd prefer to pay the proven player with years of experience in the NFL over a rookie QB who will command a fat contract at the top of the draft.

The Pats sold at a crazy low price. If it were any other team, everyone would be slamming the front office for selling at fifty cents on the dollar.

Specnatz
03-01-2009, 12:23 AM
Of course money is important. So what. Teams will pay it because they'd prefer to pay the proven player with years of experience in the NFL over a rookie QB who will command a fat contract at the top of the draft.

The Pats sold at a crazy low price. If it were any other team, everyone would be slamming the front office for selling at fifty cents on the dollar.

That is what you think, it is not proven or disproven. Just like the Texans being stupid in taking Mario. Most knew it was Sam Bowie.

I would say they sold 90 cents on the dollar because of the cap space they got in return.

Mailman
03-01-2009, 12:34 AM
That is what you think, it is not proven or disproven. Just like the Texans being stupid in taking Mario. Most knew it was Sam Bowie.

I would say they sold 90 cents on the dollar because of the cap space they got in return.

Cap space is irrelevant to the discussion of fair market value for Matt Cassel. They get that space whether he's traded to KC or Tampa or Detroit. This has nothing to do with Mario Williams or Sam Bowie, both of whom were going to be drafted at or near the top of their respective classes no matter what. This is about the market price for an NFL starting quarterback. There is no justifying the price the Pats allowed the Chiefs to pay when you compare the Matt Cassel deal to the deals involving Eli Manning, Matt Schaub, and AJ Feeley.

Specnatz
03-01-2009, 12:41 AM
Cap space is irrelevant to the discussion of fair market value for Matt Cassel. They get that space whether he's traded to KC or Tampa or Detroit. This has nothing to do with Mario Williams or Sam Bowie, both of whom were going to be drafted at or near the top of their respective classes no matter what. This is about the market price for an NFL starting quarterback. There is no justifying the price the Pats allowed the Chiefs to pay when you compare the Matt Cassel deal to the deals involving Eli Manning, Matt Schaub, and AJ Feeley.

My point is you placed a value on him, period end of story. Just like when Duane Brown was drafted the Texans put a value on him regardless of what some fan thinks.

Oh and by the way each year the value changes.

Mailman
03-01-2009, 01:03 AM
According to Shefter, the Broncos, Bucs, and Lions were all actively involved in trade talks involving Matt Cassel right up until the moment that the deal was finalized. If there are multiple teams vying for one player and that player happens to play the most important position on the football field and he's proved himself over the course of a season, common sense says he's probably worth a first round pick.

Btw, Texans fans who complained about the Brown pick thought we paid too much. This is about paying too little.

Specnatz
03-01-2009, 01:09 AM
According to Shefter, the Broncos, Bucs, and Lions were all actively involved in trade talks involving Matt Cassel right up until the moment that the deal was finalized. If there are multiple teams vying for one player and that player happens to play the most important position on the football field and he's proved himself over the course of a season, common sense says he's probably worth a first round pick.

Btw, Texans fans who complained about the Brown pick thought we paid too much. This is about paying too little.

One person pays to much one person pays to little, or is that wrong?

Involved in talks does not mean that they can reach accord. Trying to swing a three team trade of this magnitude, more times than not does not get done but hey thanks for bring up stuff that has never happened.

Sorry but his experience level does not equate that to of someone who has done it in college and at least a limited basis on the pro-level.

thunderkyss
03-01-2009, 09:41 AM
One person pays to much one person pays to little, or is that wrong?

Involved in talks does not mean that they can reach accord. Trying to swing a three team trade of this magnitude, more times than not does not get done but hey thanks for bring up stuff that has never happened.

Sorry but his experience level does not equate that to of someone who has done it in college and at least a limited basis on the pro-level.

What are you trying to argue??

The point is the Cheifs got a really sweet deal.

Yeah, the Pats opened up cap space.... they could've saved some of that cap space by not franchising Cassell. They put the price tag on him when they franchised him, and they "sold him at a discount" when they traded him on day 2 of free agency.

& when you're talking of experience, are you saying Schaub had more experience when we traded for him than Cassell has now??

Specnatz
03-01-2009, 11:22 AM
What are you trying to argue??

The point is the Cheifs got a really sweet deal.

Yeah, the Pats opened up cap space.... they could've saved some of that cap space by not franchising Cassell. They put the price tag on him when they franchised him, and they "sold him at a discount" when they traded him on day 2 of free agency.

& when you're talking of experience, are you saying Schaub had more experience when we traded for him than Cassell has now??

Then he would have been and UFA and they would have gotten nothing for him. The Pats were hamstrung unlike the Falcons. Matt was a RFA costing about $2.5 million. Yes Schaub had more experience than Cassel. Week 2 of the NFL was the first time he has started a football game in 7 years.

My point is you say the deal was so far cheap that it stinks of collusion. I am saying that while it is a little on the cheap side, like a 3rd in 2010, the cap saving are a huge factor and can not be dismissed. If there was a better deal that could be had and I think the track record by the Patriots speak volumes in how they run the business side of things.

ChampionTexan
03-01-2009, 12:34 PM
If you think that the Pats could've gotten a first for Cassel don't you think they would've jumped at the opportunity? The NFL is cut throat and when you make a mistake (Franchising your backup QB) you will pay for it. There is no way in hell that a team is going to think Cassel is so the man that they would give up their firsts for him because that deal never materialized.



Did they try? Did they work the market? I don't know, but it sure doesn't seem like they did. There's a lot of speculation about the Pats giving Pioli a friends and family discount, and when you consider that prior to the opening of the free agency almost everyone universally agreed the price for Cassel would be a first rounder + (_____), you have to wonder if there's some truth to this.

Just a little fuel to the fire on this one:

I'm not in the habit of linking to ESPN videos, but the Chris Mortensen video posted tonight is too stunning to miss. (The information is stunning, not Mort's visage.)

Mort reports that the Patriots turned down a first- and third-round pick from the Bucs in a potential three-way trade that would have sent Matt Cassel to Denver and Jay Cutler to the Bucs. Instead, the Patriots chose a second-round pick from the Chiefs.

LINK (http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/03/did-the-patriots-turn-down-a-f-1.html)

Mailman
03-01-2009, 01:47 PM
Then he would have been and UFA and they would have gotten nothing for him. The Pats were hamstrung unlike the Falcons. Matt was a RFA costing about $2.5 million. Yes Schaub had more experience than Cassel. Week 2 of the NFL was the first time he has started a football game in 7 years.

My point is you say the deal was so far cheap that it stinks of collusion. I am saying that while it is a little on the cheap side, like a 3rd in 2010, the cap saving are a huge factor and can not be dismissed. If there was a better deal that could be had and I think the track record by the Patriots speak volumes in how they run the business side of things.

The Pats weren't at all "hamstrung" because there was clearly a market demand for Cassel's services. This is inarguable. If any team in recent years was hamstrung, I'd point to the Chargers in 2004 because they drafted a quarterback who adamantly insisted he would not play for the franchise. Yet despite Manning's protestations, the Chargers still got Philip Rivers, a first round pick in the 2005 draft, a third, and a fifth, for a big-time prospect with zero NFL experience. That's an incredible haul that illustrates what even the most casual NFL fan knows--starting quarterbacks are a highly-valued commodity. We should also note that Schaub had made it clear to the Falcons that he wouldn't sign anything but a one-year contract, which meant he was gonna walk after the 2007 season. Remember, Vick had that huge contract and was the face of the franchise, so there was no way they would've paid Schaub big money to stick around as his backup. So, yes, the Falcons were under the gun to move him just as the Pats were under the gun to move Cassel.

Your statement that Schaub had more experience than Cassel is a head-scratcher. Matt Cassel has fifteen games as a starting quarterback on his resume. Schaub had two at the time of the trade. Nobody cares that prior to Brady's knee explosion, Matt Cassel hadn't started a game since high school because he proved his value on the field. He performed well against NFL defenses and led his team to a surprising 11-5 record.

Everyone agrees that Cassel's salary is the main reason the Pats had to move him so I don't know why you bring it up. Like I've said already, there were multiple teams willing to trade for Cassel, so the Pats did not get fair value when you compare this deal to past deals. You're giving BB credit for selling low just because of his reputation as an Evil Genius. He is not infallible, and this trade proves it.

Mailman
03-01-2009, 01:51 PM
Floyd Reese on what it would cost to get him: "It would have to be multiple choices and very high choices to get Cassel. Two first-rounders, or a one and a two and a three ... It'll be something very, very expensive."

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-4-743/Cassel-trade-talk-opens-with-high-1st-rounder.html

Mailman
03-01-2009, 03:13 PM
Did the Pats turn down the 12th pick for Cassel? (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-6-5/w.html)

GuerillaBlack
03-01-2009, 04:47 PM
Just a little fuel to the fire on this one:

I'm not in the habit of linking to ESPN videos, but the Chris Mortensen video posted tonight is too stunning to miss. (The information is stunning, not Mort's visage.)

Mort reports that the Patriots turned down a first- and third-round pick from the Bucs in a potential three-way trade that would have sent Matt Cassel to Denver and Jay Cutler to the Bucs. Instead, the Patriots chose a second-round pick from the Chiefs.

LINK (http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/03/did-the-patriots-turn-down-a-f-1.html)

Wow. The Pats should have did this deal.

Ryan
03-01-2009, 06:21 PM
At this point, I see KC on top of the AFC in 2 years. Their GM has worked wonders for them.

GuerillaBlack
03-01-2009, 06:24 PM
They just need a stud RB for the offensive side. Let's hope they don't get it.

bah007
03-01-2009, 06:37 PM
They just need a stud RB for the offensive side. Let's hope they don't get it.

Jamaal Charles looked very good in limited action last year:

357 yards on 5.3 YPC and 27 receptions.

Get a a feature back to pair with him and you can do some real damage.

GuerillaBlack
03-01-2009, 06:50 PM
Well, let's hope he holds out this season.

RipTraxx
03-01-2009, 07:26 PM
I know im way late but... i think this is the dumbest move ever. You traded a PROVEN qb in ur system, and are now banking that you qb1 comes back from a horrific knee injury. Throw in your PB OLB...for a 3rd!?!?!?!


Dont get it.

Spled
03-02-2009, 09:25 PM
Maybe Pioli kept his mouth shut during tape gate and this is quid pro quo.

The Pencil Neck
03-02-2009, 11:44 PM
Maybe Pioli kept his mouth shut during tape gate and this is quid pro quo.

I was thinking something along those lines.

OR they actually made this agreement before Pioli even took the job.

Sal Rosenberg
03-02-2009, 11:58 PM
KC wins.It is so obvious.They need all the help they can get though.

mexican_texan
03-03-2009, 12:21 AM
I understand why the Pats wouldn't want to pay a kid top 5 money, but why wouldn't they at least ask for an additional pick? Pioli has to have dirt, I can't see Belichik being nice to someone who abandoned him.

Goldensilence
03-03-2009, 11:55 AM
They just need a stud RB for the offensive side. Let's hope they don't get it.

Or LJ to return to form.


Maybe Pioli kept his mouth shut during tape gate and this is quid pro quo.

I was wondering why you'd make that kind of trade myself as well. Seems to be the only thing that makes sense to me.