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was385
02-27-2009, 12:50 PM
I was wondering what some of your opinions were on Jenkins from Ohio State. He was essentially guaranteed to go before 15 until his less than stellar 40-time at the combine. While he's still likely to go before us, it looks like there is at least a chance he falls. My question is would you be opposed or in favor of taking him as a safety if he's there at 15 (however small a chance that is)?

Blake
02-27-2009, 01:06 PM
I would take him @ 15 as long as he is roughly the highest player available on my board.

Wolf6151
02-27-2009, 01:21 PM
I don't think he'll fall out of the top 10. Once he has his pro day on the track at Ohio St. he'll erase that slow time and post a good one and once he does he'll go right back up those draft charts. If he were to fall to us, I'd pick him and then go buy a lottery ticket the same day cause luck was on our side.

Goatcheese
02-27-2009, 01:38 PM
He won't be there. The surface at the new stadium in Indy is roughly .06 slower than the old dome surface. His 4.53 would have been a 4.47 last year, and nobody would have knocked him for that. In an interview he said he was running 4.44 in training, and if he get's close to that at his pro day, then he'll be back in the top 5 conversation.

I don't like the idea of moving him to safety either. The guy is a corner, and has a corner's mentality about football. Drafting a guy high in the first, and then trying to make him something he isn't is doomed to failure. If drafted as a corner, he just doesn't fit the Texans system, and would end up falling short of his potential.

Ole Miss Texan
02-27-2009, 01:39 PM
I don't think he tackles well enough to be our last line of defense. I'd love him as a CB though.

bah007
02-27-2009, 01:46 PM
He won't be there. The surface at the new stadium in Indy is roughly .06 slower than the old dome surface. His 4.53 would have been a 4.47 last year, and nobody would have knocked him for that. In an interview he said he was running 4.44 in training, and if he get's close to that at his pro day, then he'll be back in the top 5 conversation.

I don't like the idea of moving him to safety either. The guy is a corner, and has a corner's mentality about football. Drafting a guy high in the first, and then trying to make him something he isn't is doomed to failure. If drafted as a corner, he just doesn't fit the Texans system, and would end up falling short of his potential.

This

was385
02-27-2009, 01:55 PM
All these responses are pretty much why I said IF he's there. I know the chances are he won't be (I went over that in the original post), but my question is IF he's there, would you take him

bah007
02-27-2009, 01:57 PM
All these responses are pretty much why I said IF he's there. I know the chances are he won't be (I went over that in the original post), but my question is IF he's there, would you take him

I would.

Top CB in the draft.

Polo
02-27-2009, 02:00 PM
I'd take him unless someone offered me something juicy in a trade up.

BigBull17
02-27-2009, 02:07 PM
I would.

Top CB in the draft.

In a heart beat. Be it Free Safty or Corner. Play maker.

rarazz00
02-27-2009, 02:55 PM
If Smith and "Kub's" pull the trigger..I'm all for it...they might not have a next year w/ the Texans, so they'll know IF they pick him where he'll START(CB/S):tiphat:...

badboy
02-27-2009, 03:54 PM
Guy is considered best CB available prior to combine based on his college performance. He runs a slow 40 and drops, uh something wrong here. I agree with others that he will run faster but he did good in college if the "slow" 40 turns out correct. Unless Raji or Orakpo there at #15, Jenkins is my guy to answer your question but only as a corner.

1. CB Jenkins 2. DE Robert Ayers 3. FS Rashad Johnson

Ole Miss Texan
02-27-2009, 04:23 PM
Guy is considered best CB available prior to combine based on his college performance. He runs a slow 40 and drops, uh something wrong here. I agree with others that he will run faster but he did good in college if the "slow" 40 turns out correct. Unless Raji or Orakpo there at #15, Jenkins is my guy to answer your question but only as a corner.

1. CB Jenkins 2. DE Robert Ayers 3. FS Rashad Johnson

I'd be really happy if the 1st three rounds turned out that way!

badboy
02-27-2009, 04:29 PM
I'd be really happy if the 1st three rounds turned out that way!To be sure and we still have 2 4ths and a 5th!
Everyone I have a great weekend. Outta here! Steve

threetoedpete
02-28-2009, 12:03 AM
This

So you guys are posting you're going to load up the back four with all stars and out cover Manning ? Good Luck with that one.

kiwitexansfan
02-28-2009, 04:54 AM
I'm starting to lean towards the draft for the lines in the first round argument.

I think there is no such thing as a great QB, just look at DeAngelo Hall, great CB, gets cut CB, get huge contract CB.... still the same guy. (Except far richer)

There is just too much influence from how they fit in the system and who they are playing with.

beerlover
02-28-2009, 09:12 AM
I have real questions now if the bridges have been burned with Dunta? if this is the case the Texans almost have to address CB early. problem is, its a weak class, there are no Leodis McKelvin or Dominique Rodgers Cromartie. much better value later in 2nd/3rd like Darius Butler, Connecticut 5-10 183 ran 4.4 with 43" vertical. a pure cover corner similar to Dunta Robinson.

Kaiser Toro
02-28-2009, 09:28 AM
I have real questions now if the bridges have been burned with Dunta? if this is the case the Texans almost have to address CB early. problem is, its a weak class, there are no Leodis McKelvin or Dominique Rodgers Cromartie. much better value later in 2nd/3rd like Darius Butler, Connecticut 5-10 183 ran 4.4 with 43" vertical. a pure cover corner similar to Dunta Robinson.

I like Butler as well.

What would suggest Dunta is a pure cover corner? Or better yet, please provide your definition of a pure cover corner and cite some examples.

rickyb
02-28-2009, 09:35 AM
Guy is considered best CB available prior to combine based on his college performance. He runs a slow 40 and drops, uh something wrong here. I agree with others that he will run faster but he did good in college if the "slow" 40 turns out correct. Unless Raji or Orakpo there at #15, Jenkins is my guy to answer your question but only as a corner.

1. CB Jenkins 2. DE Robert Ayers 3. FS Rashad Johnson

That would be awesome. Assuming Jenkins is gone, should we reach for someone like CB Alphonso?

beerlover
02-28-2009, 09:51 AM
That would be awesome. Assuming Jenkins is gone, should we reach for someone like CB Alphonso?

think you might have hit on something like a combination of first trading down from #15 (taking Alphonso) then using the added package to move back up earlier to select Ayers. :specnatz:

beerlover
02-28-2009, 10:19 AM
I like Butler as well.

What would suggest Dunta is a pure cover corner? Or better yet, please provide your definition of a pure cover corner and cite some examples.

simply put- the ability to handle coverage man to man. plays with back to ball, can mirror & slide with receiver downfield, must have good to excellent speed with fluid/loose hips & ability to compete for ball position narrowing the window for QB to hit. I would put Dunta in this class post Deion Sanders w/o the elite recovery speed. best example from last years draft is of course Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. his job is to neutralize the other teams best WR in single or man to man coverage.

In the Texans case this was Dunta's role before injured. Jacques Reeves was brought in last offseason to fill his void but as seen early on he lacked the ball skills needed to be in position to make plays. you could watch him improve as the season went along, blessed with good speed (I'm guessing its sub 4.5) & fluid hips to improve his positioning to see & make more plays on the ball.

I just don't see Malcolm becoming an elite cover corner. has excellent size & physical presence to play more up on the line of scrimmage in run support, blitz packages & cover 2.

bah007
03-01-2009, 01:57 PM
So you guys are posting you're going to load up the back four with all stars and out cover Manning ? Good Luck with that one.

And by all stars what do you mean?

Out of our four spots in the secondary how many guys do we have that could step in and start for most the other teams in the league?

A good pass rush makes things easier on your secondary and a good secondary gives your pass rushers more time to get to the QB.

If Jenkins is the best player on the board at #15, what do you think we should do then?

TexansFan33
03-02-2009, 11:31 AM
First I want to say NO to William Moore, and then if Jenkins is there at 15 we pull the trigger UNLESS we can get Malauga.

badboy
03-02-2009, 11:55 AM
That would be awesome. Assuming Jenkins is gone, should we reach for someone like CB Alphonso?No. I am cool with Dunta being upset now, but come game 1, he will be a force. If not up to it physically, we have only one year $. Good business decision. If he doesn't cooperate next season franchise him again. He had a reasonable offer. I think our corps of CBs wil be ok without a draft pick. I'd go Jenkins at #15 due to his overwhelming value and only if Raji not there. We now have our DE that was one of 3 basic priorities and maybe Benson to handle RB role. If he signs as a FA, I still want at least one more RB as insurance as we have not done well lately with FA backs. I am still mulling my new draft plan but like:

1. Raji or if not there a trade down 2. Rashad Jenning RB if there you get him rather than miss on a lesser talent day two that might not be there. 3. Rashad Johnson FS again he might be there in 4th but get him 4a Canfield O.G. 4b. Daniel Holtsclaw ILB 5th If Ron Brace is there in 2nd( & we did not get Raji) which I'm beginning to doubt I'd take him and here in 5th take Cedric Peerman RB. Here's a surprise for you, if we get Jennings in round two, I'd look strong at WR Aaron Kelly 6'5" 204 lbs 4.49. 38" vertical from Clemson.

I want to juggle this a bit more but this weekend pick ups makes it even more fun.

rollinstone18
03-02-2009, 12:29 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to William Moore in the 2nd (I'd rather get a NT, though). Moore and Wilson wouldn't be a bad pair in the secondary. And if he shows the range, he could patrol center when Wilson's contract is up.

WolverineFan
03-02-2009, 12:49 PM
A fast 40 time does not a good CB make and vice versa. I don't care what his 40 was all I know is the kid was a darn good CB in college and that should translate to the NFL no matter what his workout looked like.

You now there was a CB a couple of years ago who ran a slow 40 time at the combine and his draft stock fell, but he's a pretty decent player nowadays. Btw that guy's name was Nnamdi Asomugha.

was385
03-02-2009, 01:25 PM
Hasn't his speed been a concern throughout his college career? It seemed to me that whenever I watched Ohio St. games (Admittedly not that much), that he was far better working in a zone and struggled a bit with man coverage. I may be way off on that though.

bah007
03-02-2009, 01:30 PM
Hasn't his speed been a concern throughout his college career? It seemed to me that whenever I watched Ohio St. games (Admittedly not that much), that he was far better working in a zone and struggled a bit with man coverage. I may be way off on that though.

I've noticed that he is better in zone than in man coverage.

But I would say he is still pretty good man to man.

Mr teX
03-02-2009, 02:06 PM
So you guys are posting you're going to load up the back four with all stars and out cover Manning ? Good Luck with that one.

I agree. There's a saying that's very much true: a good throw beats good coverage every time. Furthermore, Good Qb's tend to find their guys regardless & you're not going to be able to out cover the mannings & bradys which by the way we have to see 3 times this year...& if warner resigns with Ariz...u can expect to see him this year as well.

badboy
03-02-2009, 04:25 PM
2years in a row he was considered the best CB.He returned last season to college and gave up a sure 1st round paycheck.

YoungTexanFan
03-02-2009, 04:46 PM
A fast 40 time does not a good CB make and vice versa. I don't care what his 40 was all I know is the kid was a darn good CB in college and that should translate to the NFL no matter what his workout looked like.

You now there was a CB a couple of years ago who ran a slow 40 time at the combine and his draft stock fell, but he's a pretty decent player nowadays. Btw that guy's name was Nnamdi Asomugha.

Daunta Robinson flew up our very own Texans' draft board after blazing his 40-yard dash in under 4.4. He didn't have experience coming out of college compared to most CB's as he only played CB his last 2 seasons. Just to play devil's advocate. :)

Goatcheese
03-02-2009, 09:46 PM
Daunta Robinson flew up our very own Texans' draft board after blazing his 40-yard dash in under 4.4. He didn't have experience coming out of college compared to most CB's as he only played CB his last 2 seasons. Just to play devil's advocate. :)

A blazing 40 can put you on the radar, and get people to take another look at your gameplay. But they(atleast the good teams) still base their pick on your play on the field.

If I see a guy who can flat out play football I'm not going to let a slow sprint in shorts affect things. Rey rey would go undrafted with his 4.9 40 if that were the case.

YoungTexanFan
03-03-2009, 10:36 AM
A blazing 40 can put you on the radar, and get people to take another look at your gameplay. But they(atleast the good teams) still base their pick on your play on the field.

If I see a guy who can flat out play football I'm not going to let a slow sprint in shorts affect things. Rey rey would go undrafted with his 4.9 40 if that were the case.

I was just playing Devil's advocate. Robinson ran a 4.34 and had a low time of 4.26. It's hard to say his time didn't help him get drafted. I couldn't find his career stats, but he couldn't have been drafted for his cover skills because they aren't there even to this day. He had 4 ints his Junior year I believe, but nothing special...other than his blazing speed.

Goatcheese
03-03-2009, 10:45 AM
I was just playing Devil's advocate. Robinson ran a 4.34 and had a low time of 4.26. It's hard to say his time didn't help him get drafted. I couldn't find his career stats, but he couldn't have been drafted for his cover skills because they aren't there even to this day. He had 4 ints his Junior year I believe, but nothing special...other than his blazing speed.

Are you trying to say that the Texans under C&C were a good team? I always though D-Rob was a shot in the dark by a bunch of retards, and they just managed to get lucky and hit something. :thinking:

threetoedpete
03-03-2009, 10:50 AM
2years in a row he was considered the best CB.He returned last season to college and gave up a sure 1st round paycheck.

Doesn't it frighten you guys just a tad that some scouts are putting FS next to his name ? I just do not like reaching for DBs when it is a bad class for the group. Especially corners. See Travis Johnson.

Tell me we're moving back and taking Smith or Delmas and or Rashad...ok. Smith fits the profile of what they've been drafting. Delmas and Johnson assumes were changing past habits. Darius Butler made him some money at the combine. Supply and demand...if you're hurting for a corner...they'll be a run on them. another thought is just this ...how long did they live with greenwood at LB and Weaver on the D line ? Going to take a lot moving Revees out of the starting line up. I agree they will take a safety. I think the second day is a lot more likely than the first day.

nunusguy
03-20-2009, 11:02 AM
"Jenkins, who is being looked at as a safety as well as a cornerback due to slow times in the 40, tried to improve on his 40 numbers at the pro day, but was unsuccessful. He turned in times of 4.58 and 4.55 in Columbus after running between 4.52 and 4.58 at the NFL combine in Indianapolis (4.55 or quicker is considered ideal for NFL corners). He stood on the rest of his numbers from the combine."
http://blogs.nfl.com/category/pro-days/
**************************************************
I dunno but this is maybe good news for the Texans ?
Obviously if he's a sub 4.5 guy he never makes it to 15 but the Texans might consider using their 15th for him ? Possibly another option, even as a
FS ?

bah007
03-20-2009, 11:04 AM
"Jenkins, who is being looked at as a safety as well as a cornerback due to slow times in the 40, tried to improve on his 40 numbers at the pro day, but was unsuccessful. He turned in times of 4.58 and 4.55 in Columbus after running between 4.52 and 4.58 at the NFL combine in Indianapolis (4.55 or quicker is considered ideal for NFL corners). He stood on the rest of his numbers from the combine."
http://blogs.nfl.com/category/pro-days/
**************************************************
I dunno but this is maybe good news for the Texans ?
Obviously if he's a sub 4.5 guy he never makes it to 15 but the Texans might consider using their 15th for him ? Possibly another option, even as a
FS ?

He's a good player. The more good players that drop, the better it is for us.

Vinny
03-20-2009, 11:05 AM
if he falls to 15 I expect the team to RUN up to the podium and select him.

Maddict5
03-20-2009, 11:09 AM
yep.. id love to have him. the other teams (especially the saints just before us) arent stupid enough to let him fall.

he doesnt look slow on tape

Texecutioner
03-20-2009, 11:12 AM
Well Malcom Jenkins doesn't look like some great shut down corner to me. He looks like he'll be good and all, but I think he is very over rated. I hope that he doesn't drop to us, because if so I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted him.

beerlover
03-20-2009, 11:12 AM
to solidify the secondary I've been on the Butler, Davis, Smith bandwagon so you don't have to convince me about the Texans addressing this need early. However Jenkins in my mind is a pipedream, he is a solid, productive player who is NFL ready I don't care what he runs, he would be a steal :cool:

HOU-TEX
03-20-2009, 11:17 AM
I most definitely wouldn't be pissed if we got him at 15. Then again, I probably wouldn't get pissed at any defensive pick at 15. :)

nunusguy
03-20-2009, 11:38 AM
While 40 times aren't very important, actually downright irrelavant for many positions that's not the case for CBs. Especially if a team runs a defense which features primarily man-coverage for its corners like the Texans do or have done up to this point in time. Maybe that changes under Frank Bush ?
But Reeves, Mouldin, and Bennet are all sub 4.5 40 guys and the 2 we drafted are 3rd and 4th rounders. We took D-Rob #10 in the Draft in '04 but he was a low 4.3s guy.
Therefor if we continue with the present kind of defensive schemes for our DBacks I dunno how we can use the 15th pick in the first round on a DB who's not really suited to play CB for us ? And that high of pick on a FS that nobdy has suggested is remotely like a Taylor Mays or a LeRon Landry in terms of physicality (or even speed) makes me wonder how the Texans would make that move ?

Vinny
03-20-2009, 12:07 PM
While 40 times aren't very important, actually downright irrelavant for many positions that's not the case for CBs. Especially if a team runs a defense which features primarily man-coverage for its corners like the Texans do or have done up to this point in time. Maybe that changes under Frank Bush ?
But Reeves, Mouldin, and Bennet are all sub 4.5 40 guys and the 2 we drafted are 3rd and 4th rounders. We took D-Rob #10 in the Draft in '04 but he was a low 4.3s guy.
Therefor if we continue with the present kind of defensive schemes for our DBacks I dunno how we can use the 15th pick in the first round on a DB who's not really suited to play CB for us ? And that high of pick on a FS that nobdy has suggested is remotely like a Taylor Mays or a LeRon Landry in terms of physicality (or even speed) makes me wonder how the Texans would make that move ?
low 4.3? I don't ever remember Dunta being that fast, perhaps my memory is failing due to my recent spat of old age. Anyway, the difference between a 4.5 and a 4.4 is barely measurable on the field, especially when a player has a high football IQ. For example, I don't think Greenwood is any slower than DeMeco but DeMeco will already be moving towards the ball when Greenwood was trying to figure out what direction he should be pointed.

Second Honeymoon
03-20-2009, 12:12 PM
I don't remember Dunta being a low 4.3 either. I do remember DeAngelo Hall being the fastest corner in that draft and being drafted ahead of Dunta and generally being more coveted by most teams.

I think Hall is a great example to show how the 40 time is not that important towards being a good corner. I think Jenkins is probably the best defensive back in this draft, and for that reason alone, he will go very early in the draft...i'd say Top 10 no-brainer. In other years, he may have gone lower but with the dearth of quality defensive backs in this draft, his value skyrockets...whether it be as CB or FS.

nunusguy
03-20-2009, 12:19 PM
It is my 4.3 Combine Club.
Fabian Washington, Nebraska, 4.25
Triandos Luke, Alabama, 4.30
Jonathan Joseph, South Carolina, 4.32
Jonathan Carte,r Troy State, 4.33
Tim Jennings, Georgia, 4.34
Dunta Robinson, South Carolina, 4.34
Domonique, Foxworth Maryland, 4.34
Joseph Jefferson, Western Kentucky, 4.35
Josh Wilson, Maryland, 4.35
Willie Reid, Florida State, 4.36
David Clowney, Virginia Tech, 4.36
Matt Jones ,Arkansas, 4.37
Leron McCoy, Indiana Pennsylvania, 4.38
Nick Collins, Bethune Cookman, 4.38
http://www.parisischool.com/highlights.asp
***************************************
OK, mid 4.3s. Close enough ?

infantrycak
03-20-2009, 12:23 PM
low 4.3? I don't ever remember Dunta being that fast, perhaps my memory is failing due to my recent spat of old age. Anyway, the difference between a 4.5 and a 4.4 is barely measurable on the field, especially when a player has a high football IQ. For example, I don't think Greenwood is any slower than DeMeco but DeMeco will already be moving towards the ball when Greenwood was trying to figure out what direction he should be pointed.

4.34

Link (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=58280&draftyear=2004&genpos=CB)

Link (http://www.parisischool.com/highlights.asp)

badboy
03-20-2009, 12:38 PM
low 4.3? I don't ever remember Dunta being that fast, perhaps my memory is failing due to my recent spat of old age. Anyway, the difference between a 4.5 and a 4.4 is barely measurable on the field, especially when a player has a high football IQ. For example, I don't think Greenwood is any slower than DeMeco but DeMeco will already be moving towards the ball when Greenwood was trying to figure out what direction he should be pointed.Thanks for posting Vinny as I too could not remember him being that fast.

Ole Miss Texan
03-20-2009, 12:43 PM
The important things for CBs is not their 40 time. It's their ability to backpedal and their quickness to turn their hips... the transition from back pedal to running alongside the WR. It's their play recognition to leave the WR and attack the LOS on a running play. It's the ability to locate the ball in the air or read the QBs eyes. It's his quickness to jump the route and deflect/intercept the pass.

The majority of plays a CB is involved in are not running deep patterns. Having a fast 40 yard dash does not always correlate to their ability to cover a WR... a fast 40 yard dash pretty much only shows their ability to recover when beat and they're chasing a guy into the endzone. Their ability to turn and follow the WR is more important. Those that can't are the ones that often get burned deep.

nunusguy
03-20-2009, 01:07 PM
The majority of plays a CB is involved in are not running deep patterns. Having a fast 40 yard dash does not always correlate to their ability to cover a WR... a fast 40 yard dash pretty much only shows their ability to recover when beat and they're chasing a guy into the endzone.
OK O-M, you keep telling yourself that next year in the unlikely but possible
scenario where we draft Jenkins and the Jags draft Jeremy MaCLin and our rookie CB finds himself in a situation where he has man-coverage on their rookie WR on a fly-pattern from the Jags 30.

badboy
03-20-2009, 01:58 PM
OK O-M, you keep telling yourself that next year in the unlikely but possible
scenario where we draft Jenkins and the Jags draft Jeremy MaCLin and our rookie CB finds himself in a situation where he has man-coverage on their rookie WR on a fly-pattern from the Jags 30.Jenkins clobbers Maclin within 5 yards buying time for our Dline to sack da quarterback.:specnatz:

TheRealJoker
03-20-2009, 02:00 PM
OK O-M, you keep telling yourself that next year in the unlikely but possible
scenario where we draft Jenkins and the Jags draft Jeremy MaCLin and our rookie CB finds himself in a situation where he has man-coverage on their rookie WR on a fly-pattern from the Jags 30.

You would figure the game tape would show Jenkins getting beat deep early and often...I mean he runs a slow 40 for a CB and he plays at a big program that plays NFL talent pretty consistently. Why hasn't anyone seen this glaring weakness on the game tape yet? I mean its plain as day when he's working out in shorts!!!

Ole Miss Texan
03-20-2009, 03:26 PM
OK O-M, you keep telling yourself that next year in the unlikely but possible
scenario where we draft Jenkins and the Jags draft Jeremy MaCLin and our rookie CB finds himself in a situation where he has man-coverage on their rookie WR on a fly-pattern from the Jags 30.

I'd expect safety help over the top when there's a speed WR going deep. I don't care if that Safety is there helping Jenkins, another rookie CB (who has the fastest 40 time?), Reeves, Bennett, Molden, Faggins or Dunta Robinson.

I'm not pretending Jenkins is going to come in and be a lockdown corner that never gets beat, I'm simply trying to show that there are more important qualities in a conerback that prevents him from getting beat deep. Those are technique and play recognition as well as quickness. Just think about exactly what the 40 yard dash is. Running straight. A corner that is going to be running straight is already beat.

Now if we want to get into if Jenkins' strengths and weaknesses fit what we want our corners to be doing then that's great. Because quite frankly, I have no idea. To me, it seems most of Jenkins' highlights are when the play is in front of him. He's able to jump the route or support the run. To me this seems like he may be better suited for a zone coverage scheme. That doesn't mean he can't play man. Any idea what we're going to be running? I assume more man coverages but I'm not sure. Also just because he may be better with the play in front of him doesn't mean they would be a good safety.

Mari-OWNED!
03-20-2009, 05:31 PM
If Jenkins falls to #15, and the Texans don't either draft him, or trade down, I will be royally pissed.

Goatcheese
03-20-2009, 07:07 PM
Jenkins would easily be the best player on the board at 15.

His 4.51 combine time is plenty fast to be a man cover guy. Even more important is his 10 and 20 yard splits, cone and shuttle drills.

Jenkins
10: 1.47
20: 2.62
40: 4.51

Cone: 6.59
Shuttle: 4.08

Mari-OWNED!
03-22-2009, 07:43 AM
In Steve Wyche's newest mock draft, he has the Texans taking Malcolm Jenkins.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f55308&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Spled
03-22-2009, 10:49 PM
If Jenkins or Smith drop, I would jump on them.

badboy
03-23-2009, 03:23 PM
In Steve Wyche's newest mock draft, he has the Texans taking Malcolm Jenkins.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f55308&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=trueI'll drink some of that!

MojoMan
03-23-2009, 03:36 PM
In Steve Wyche's newest mock draft, he has the Texans taking Malcolm Jenkins.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f55308&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Now that's what I am talking about!

1. CB
2. OLB
3. RB
4. OL

If the coaches are confident that is worthy of the #15 pick overall, this would be a great choice.

Goatcheese
03-23-2009, 03:52 PM
Now that's what I am talking about!

1. CB
2. OLB
3. RB
4. OL

If the coaches are confident that is worthy of the #15 pick overall, this would be a great choice.

I'd like to pick him up, but I still don't see him falling that far. Most NFL scouts/GMs don't suddenly forget that a guy was an elite prospect before he ran .06 slower than expected.

If he's there I think he would be a great pick, and finally give the Texans the #1 corner they have lacked since Glenn was cut.

badboy
03-23-2009, 04:02 PM
I'd like to pick him up, but I still don't see him falling that far. Most NFL scouts/GMs don't suddenly forget that a guy was an elite prospect before he ran .06 slower than expected.

If he's there I think he would be a great pick, and finally give the Texans the #1 corner they have lacked since Glenn was cut.I like our CBs and have Jenkins as my FS who can also play CB. I think Molden may surprise some people although there is nothing to support this, other than coaches really like him. CB Reeves, Dunta, Bennett,Wilson and Molden with Jenkins and Ferguson at FS and each can also play CB.

Ole Miss Texan
04-21-2009, 10:39 AM
I've read a lot posts (in other threads) about how Jenkins got beat so badly during the Fiesta Bowl this year. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you want the guy who got burned for every big play, look no further than #5 Chimdi Chekwa. Jenkins was rarely lined up on Cosby. The one play Jenkins failed at was a crossing pattern from the 7 yard line. Cosby cut inside and Jenkins ran into a pick by his own LB... couldn't recover and Cosby found the hole between the other LBs. GREAT play by Cosby/McCoy. But that was pretty much the only knock against Jenkins during that game.


I really think Jenkins could be the answer this year if there ever was one. It seems there are only going to be a handful of players that the Texans really like. After that, and in the likely case they're all gone... we'll want to trade down. I think trading down could be pretty difficult though.

If Jenkins starts slipping, New Orleans is the likely candidate. I'm not sure he even makes it there though. I'd be willing to give up our 4th round pick to move up for this guy if he's the last top talent the Texans have on their board. I'd rather give that up than take the risk of being stuck at #15 and having to take a much lower talent, regardless of position.

I'm a guy who cringes at the idea of giving up draft picks to move up for one player. Especially with Kubiak/Smith's ability to get such great talent. But I think that highly of Jenkins for this team and we the FA moves we've already made. Especially when considering what other players we'd run the likelihood of taking at #15 if we can't trade down.

I think Jenkins could be a longterm starter for us. We have no idea if we'll reach a deal with Dunta. In the case we don't because they see a lot of progress from Bennett again. I think having Jenkins/Bennett starting would bring us great size and I think Reeves is perfectly suited for the nickle. Throw Dunta back in the scenario and I think we'd have a killer secondary (esp. considering we'd probably get a S in this draft too).

bah007
04-21-2009, 11:21 AM
I've read a lot posts (in other threads) about how Jenkins got beat so badly during the Fiesta Bowl this year. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you want the guy who got burned for every big play, look no further than #5 Lawrence Wilson. Jenkins was rarely lined up on Cosby. The one play Jenkins failed at was a crossing pattern from the 7 yard line. Cosby cut inside and Jenkins ran into a pick by his own LB... couldn't recover and Cosby found the hole between the other LBs. GREAT play by Cosby/McCoy. But that was pretty much the only knock against Jenkins during that game.


I really think Jenkins could be the answer this year if there ever was one. It seems there are only going to be a handful of players that the Texans really like. After that, and in the likely case they're all gone... we'll want to trade down. I think trading down could be pretty difficult though.

If Jenkins starts slipping, New Orleans is the likely candidate. I'm not sure he even makes it there though. I'd be willing to give up our 4th round pick to move up for this guy if he's the last top talent the Texans have on their board. I'd rather give that up than take the risk of being stuck at #15 and having to take a much lower talent, regardless of position.

I'm a guy who cringes at the idea of giving up draft picks to move up for one player. Especially with Kubiak/Smith's ability to get such great talent. But I think that highly of Jenkins for this team and we the FA moves we've already made. Especially when considering what other players we'd run the likelihood of taking at #15 if we can't trade down.

I think Jenkins could be a longterm starter for us. We have no idea if we'll reach a deal with Dunta. In the case we don't because they see a lot of progress from Bennett again. I think having Jenkins/Bennett starting would bring us great size and I think Reeves is perfectly suited for the nickle. Throw Dunta back in the scenario and I think we'd have a killer secondary (esp. considering we'd probably get a S in this draft too).

I've seen the same posts and tried to respond to them but to no avail.

The casual fan sees his 40 time and decides that he obviously sucks.

OMT, we were the only two on the board who got Cason right last year. Hopefully we aren't the only two this year that can look past Jenkins' 40 time and see the great player that he is.

beerlover
04-21-2009, 11:28 AM
Jenkins matured early, he's hit his ceiling so to speak, the potential going forward is not up like Vontae Davis, Darius Butler or even Alphonso Smith. so he goes to a team who has a need @ CB, he'll do fine & be a solid NFL corner but I'd be very surprised if he develops into something special.

Polo
04-21-2009, 11:32 AM
I think Jenkins is going to be a beast. Physical tools +natural instincts+smart = beast

TexanAddict
04-21-2009, 11:32 AM
I too thought Cason with his college production and top intangibles would have made a good pick for the Texans last year. If Jenkins is there at 15, I would love the Texans to get him because he has a proven track record and could offer some flexibility to play either CB or S. Either way he would contribute right away. I'm hoping the Texans are looking to pick up proven players at there position instead of project players (Matthews, Maybin). I actually wouldn't mind Laurinitis, especially after a trade down, for the same reasons. Both Jenkins and Laurinitis would have probably gone in the top 10 if they had come out a year earlier.

Goldensilence
04-21-2009, 11:32 AM
I've seen the same posts and tried to respond to them but to no avail.

The casual fan sees his 40 time and decides that he obviously sucks.

OMT, we were the only two on the board who got Cason right last year. Hopefully we aren't the only two this year that can look past Jenkins' 40 time and see the great player that he is.

I called Cason a first rounder last year too.I think he plays faster that his forty time suggest because he's got the instincts to play the position. He's also solid in run support.

Ole Miss Texan
04-21-2009, 12:08 PM
I think Jenkins has the ability to be an everydown starting CB for our team. Be it our #1 or our #2 CB.

I see Butler, Smith and Moore more suited for nickle kind of CBs. Sure they could be electrifying and real playmakers but I think Jenkins has the best possibility of being effective on our team (esp. w/ our current CBs) and playing more snaps than the others.

I don't think Davis is on our radar. He would not mesh well with our coaches.

Jackie Chiles
04-21-2009, 01:10 PM
I think Jenkins has the ability to be an everydown starting CB for our team. Be it our #1 or our #2 CB.

I see Butler, Smith and Moore more suited for nickle kind of CBs. Sure they could be electrifying and real playmakers but I think Jenkins has the best possibility of being effective on our team (esp. w/ our current CBs) and playing more snaps than the others.

I don't think Davis is on our radar. He would not mesh well with our coaches.

I was thinking about Vontae Davis the other day and I'm not sure I can write him off like that. We have all heard about the character concerns but if we draft him I will be fine with the pick because it would mean that our FO trusts him and I trust the judgment of our FO.

As for Jenkins I would love it if he fell to us. He didn't run a great 40 time but it wasn't terribly slow and his 20 yard shuttle and 3 cone times were fantastic. He is a little bit like Brandon Flowers last year, but with better size, slightly better straight line speed and cone/shuttle times and no character concerns. Ironically Flowers played for coach Gibbs in KC last year and was terrific as a rookie.

nunusguy
04-21-2009, 01:20 PM
My impression of Jenkins is that he's a DB version of Antonio Smith in the sense of his versatility.
Smith can play on the edge or move inside as a DT, whereas Jenkins can play
corner or FS. Neither player is exceptional at either of their 2 respective positions but perhaps competant.

HOU-TEX
04-21-2009, 01:41 PM
IMO, Butler has the best skill set of the CB bunch. His size is the only thing people can base their arguements against him being the top CB. He's the same size as Dunta.

bah007
04-21-2009, 02:06 PM
IMO, Butler has the best skill set of the CB bunch. His size is the only thing people can base their arguements against him being the top CB. He's the same size as Dunta.

I agree to an extent. The main knock from fans on Butler is his size, but he played some bad games this year as well.

You can see it when you watch him play. He still has some things to learn.

I like him. I think his superior vertical negates the height issue. He has all the tools to be a top man coverage corner, but he will need help getting there.

Based on full potential he is my number 2 CB behind Davis, and if we go CB in the 1st in this draft I like him over everyone but Jenkins.

badboy
04-21-2009, 02:42 PM
It is interesting to review old threads and see what I posted. I'm a big Jenkins fan. Not so sure that he would beat out our starting CBs (do we know for sure who they will be?). However, I would move him to FS. I posted earlier I would use him as a CB but enough others think he would be perfect in safety role. I like him over Davis but some say Davis will be selected first. I was hoping Sanchez would still be on board @ 15 to encourage trade ups for us but Kiper and Maycock think he will go much higher. I had gotten out of the funk I was in about a month ago that most significant players would be gone at #15, but I'm slipping that way again.

steelbtexan
04-21-2009, 02:43 PM
I remember Quan Cosby, the LSU & FLA receivers having their way with Jenkins. No thanks.

I liked Cason last year because he was a playmaker against PAC 10 receivers who are superior to Big 11 receivers IMO.

Jenkins struggled with SEC & Big 12 receivers too. Go back & look at film against those two confrences. It isn't pretty.

Jenkins is OK but not # 15 OK.

We need to spend # 15 on a player that can pressure the QB. You're not going to out cover Manning, Brady and Warner. They will pick your CB's apart.

Pressure Pressure Pressure that's the name of the game.

bah007
04-21-2009, 02:58 PM
I remember Quan Cosby, the LSU & FLA receivers having their way with Jenkins. No thanks.

I liked Cason last year because he was a playmaker against PAC 10 receivers who are superior to Big 11 receivers IMO.

Jenkins struggled with SEC & Big 12 receivers too. Go back & look at film against those two confrences. It isn't pretty.

Jenkins is OK but not # 15 OK.

We need to spend # 15 on a player that can pressure the QB. You're not going to out cover Manning, Brady and Warner. They will pick your CB's apart.

Pressure Pressure Pressure that's the name of the game.

You have no argument because Jenkins didn't cover Cosby exclusively in the Fiesta Bowl.

Ohio St tried to move Jenkins around and when we was on the left we threw to the right. When he was on the right we threw to the left. I think Jenkins gave up two catches in the Fiesta Bowl, and one was because his OLB got in his way (which OMT already alluded to). Most of our passing plays were changed pre-snap by McCoy based on where Jenkins was lined up. We were very confident that if Jenkins was on Cosby that Shipley would get open and if Jenkins was on Shipley that Cosby would get open.

Against LSU in the national championship Jenkins covered Brandon LaFell and gave up 2 catches for 15 yards and a TD.

Against Florida in the national championship Jenkins covered Andre Caldwell and gave up 2 catches for 6 yards and a TD.

Oh yea. Looks like he got smoked. The only argument you might have using those games is that he gave up two redzone TD's in three games.

The bolded part is the only part that I agree with.

Ole Miss Texan
04-21-2009, 04:13 PM
You have no argument because Jenkins didn't cover Cosby exclusively in the Fiesta Bowl.

Ohio St tried to move Jenkins around and when we was on the left we threw to the right. When he was on the right we threw to the left. I think Jenkins gave up two catches in the Fiesta Bowl, and one was because his OLB got in his way (which OMT already alluded to). Most of our passing plays were changed pre-snap by McCoy based on where Jenkins was lined up. We were very confident that if Jenkins was on Cosby that Shipley would get open and if Jenkins was on Shipley that Cosby would get open.

Against LSU in the national championship Jenkins covered Brandon LaFell and gave up 2 catches for 15 yards and a TD.

Against Florida in the national championship Jenkins covered Andre Caldwell and gave up 2 catches for 6 yards and a TD.

Oh yea. Looks like he got smoked. The only argument you might have using those games is that he gave up two redzone TD's in three games.

The bolded part is the only part that I agree with.

Thanks bah... this idea that Jenkins got smoke throughout the year is one of those misconceptions that gets passed around the internet.

Going back to the recent game against Texas which we've covered... He also broke up the pass in the endzone against #4 (name is escaping me). I thought Jenkins actually had a good game dispite what everyone else is saying. Knocked the crud out of McCoy on that one play (fumble/incompletion?)

Florida- BCS championship: from the 1 yard line (?) I wasn't sure if it was the TE or just a really big WR... he was lined up on the outside. Speedy WR came in motion behind the LOS and ran behind the 2 receivers on the left catching the wide open TD pass. Jenkins maintained coverage of his man on the outside who turned around about 5 ft inside the endzone. Jenkins very well could have had the responsibility to shift over to the the wr but the whole defense was going towards the QB... looks if he did then his original guy would have been wide open for an easy TD.

LSU- BCS championship game: from the 10 yard line(?) looked like lafell started in the slot and ran towards the corner of the endzone. Jenkins was on him until the last second where lafell got nice separation and caught a perfectly thrown ball over his far shoulder. Great throw/catch but Jenkins should of stopped it. Jenkins also had an INT off Matt Flynn too if i'm not mistaken.

In anycase, Jenkins is unfairly getting criticized. Teams threw away from him so much this year. #5 Chimdi Chekwa? and #21 Andy Russell were consistently picked on and gave up virtually every big passing play this year.

Let's not forget the Ohio State vs. USC game this year where the Trojans slaughtered the buckeyes 35-3. I don't think Jenkins gave up one big play all game.
Scouts put extra emphasis on how the top prospects perform in the big games, and a scout who attended the Ohio State-Southern California clash last September characterized Jenkins to me as "the best player on the field." Considering the talent on those two rosters, that's saying something. - Rob Rang, The Sports Xchange, NFLDraftScout.com
So I guess (for that game) Jenkins > Wells, Sanchez, Maualuga, Cushing, Matthews, Mays and Griffen.

Ole Miss Texan
04-21-2009, 04:17 PM
Jenkins' 2008 stats:
57 tackles
9 pass break ups
3 interceptions
3 forced fumbles
2 kick/punt blocks
4.5 tackles for loss
1 sack


Darius Butler's 2008 stats:
40 tackles
4 pass break ups
0 interceptions
0 forced fumbles
0 kick/punt blocks
3 tackles for loss
0 sacks
** also played offense: 1 rushing TD (2 attempts) and 1 receiving TD (9 receptions)
**23 yard kick off return avg. off 20 returns

76Texan
04-21-2009, 04:24 PM
I didn't think Jenkins will drop to 15, so I never did really studied him!

Ole Miss Texan
04-21-2009, 04:45 PM
Some of these stats may have been mentioned previously. All from http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/563623

2008:
Held the opposition to 230 yards and no touchdowns on 30 catches of 60 passes targeted into his area (7.67 yards per completion/3.83 yards per pass attempt) … Registered 22 third-down stops, including 18 vs. the pass … Did not allow his main pass coverage assignment to catch any passes in seven contests, as those receivers managed just seven receptions for 66 yards (9.43 yards per completion).

Games:
Youngstown State- Didn't allow a single reception and had 2 pass break ups (both on 3rd downs).
Ohio U- Main coverage assignment had 0 receptions vs. him, MJ had 1 pass break up and 1 interception.
Southern Cal- Season career 10 tackles (6 solo). Committed 2 penalties that ended up leading to scores (offsides and facemask). Main coverage assignment (Turner) had 1 reception for 18 yards vs. him.
Minnesota- Had 1 sack causing a fumble late in the 3rd qtr. Main coverage assignment had 1 reception for 4 yards vs. him
Wisconsin- Main coverage assignment had 1 catch for 8 yards vs. him. Deflected a pass and made an INT with 1 minute left in the game to preserve a 20-17 win.
Purdue- Jenkins registered three third-down stops and another on fourth down, also blocked a punt, intercepted a pass and deflected another. Main coverage assignment did not have any receptions vs. him.
Michigan State - Jenkins made two third-down hits and rerouted his coverage assignment three times while delivering nine tackles (7 solos) with an 8-yard sack and a forced fumble … MSU was forced to punt late in the first quarter after the OSU cornerback took down All-American tailback Javon Ringer for a 3-yard loss … Sacked QB Kirk Cousins for an 8-yard loss on third-&-11, causing a fumble that OSU recovered for a touchdown … main coverage assignment did not catch any passes vs. him.
Penn State [/B- Rerouted receivers away from two passes and made three third-down hits among his four tackles, main coverage assignment caught one pass for 4 yards vs. him.
[B]Northwestern - Caused 1 fumble, main coverage assignment: caught two passes for 27 yards vs. him.
Illinois - Blocked a late first quarter punt that resulted in a safety and deflected three passes, main coverage assignment did not catch any passes.
Michigan - The defensive captain made five tackles, including three on third-down plays that forced the Wolverines to punt after each occasion … Brought the crowd to its feet when he came out of nowhere to knock a Nick Sheridan pass out of the hands of Greg Matthews midway through the final quarter … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#13-Greg Matthews (6:03-207)-did not catch any passes vs. Jenkins.
Texas (Fiesta Bowl) … Jenkins closed out his career with three tackles, including an assist in stopping fullback Chris Ogbonnaya for a 1-yard loss on a rushing attempt to start the second quarter … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#3-Jordan Shipley (6:00-197)-did not catch any passes vs. Jenkins.

bah007
04-21-2009, 04:48 PM
Some of these stats may have been mentioned previously. All from http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/563623

2008:


Games:
Youngstown State- Didn't allow a single reception and had 2 pass break ups (both on 3rd downs).
Ohio U- Main coverage assignment had 0 receptions vs. him, MJ had 1 pass break up and 1 interception.
Southern Cal- Season career 10 tackles (6 solo). Committed 2 penalties that ended up leading to scores (offsides and facemask). Main coverage assignment (Turner) had 1 reception for 18 yards vs. him.
Minnesota- Had 1 sack causing a fumble late in the 3rd qtr. Main coverage assignment had 1 reception for 4 yards vs. him
Wisconsin- Main coverage assignment had 1 catch for 8 yards vs. him. Deflected a pass and made an INT with 1 minute left in the game to preserve a 20-17 win.
Purdue- Jenkins registered three third-down stops and another on fourth down, also blocked a punt, intercepted a pass and deflected another. Main coverage assignment did not have any receptions vs. him.
Michigan State - Jenkins made two third-down hits and rerouted his coverage assignment three times while delivering nine tackles (7 solos) with an 8-yard sack and a forced fumble … MSU was forced to punt late in the first quarter after the OSU cornerback took down All-American tailback Javon Ringer for a 3-yard loss … Sacked QB Kirk Cousins for an 8-yard loss on third-&-11, causing a fumble that OSU recovered for a touchdown … main coverage assignment did not catch any passes vs. him.
Penn State [/B- Rerouted receivers away from two passes and made three third-down hits among his four tackles, main coverage assignment caught one pass for 4 yards vs. him.
[B]Northwestern - Caused 1 fumble, main coverage assignment: caught two passes for 27 yards vs. him.
Illinois - Blocked a late first quarter punt that resulted in a safety and deflected three passes, main coverage assignment did not catch any passes.
Michigan - The defensive captain made five tackles, including three on third-down plays that forced the Wolverines to punt after each occasion … Brought the crowd to its feet when he came out of nowhere to knock a Nick Sheridan pass out of the hands of Greg Matthews midway through the final quarter … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#13-Greg Matthews (6:03-207)-did not catch any passes vs. Jenkins.
Texas (Fiesta Bowl) … Jenkins closed out his career with three tackles, including an assist in stopping fullback Chris Ogbonnaya for a 1-yard loss on a rushing attempt to start the second quarter … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#3-Jordan Shipley (6:00-197)-did not catch any passes vs. Jenkins.

Yea but he ran a 4.54. He sucks.

bah007
04-21-2009, 04:50 PM
I didn't think Jenkins will drop to 15, so I never did really studied him!

He won't.

I pegged Cason last year and I'm pegging Jenkins right now. Top 10 pick. Take it to the bank.

76Texan
04-21-2009, 04:56 PM
He won't.

I pegged Cason last year and I'm pegging Jenkins right now. Top 10 pick. Take it to the bank.

But I can't say that I was impressed with the 10-tackle game though.
That one I did watch a couple of times, and didn't know what to think of it!

Goatcheese
04-21-2009, 05:00 PM
Malcolm Jenkins coverage stats from 2008:

"Held the opposition to 230 yards and no touchdowns on 30 catches of 60 passes targeted into his area (7.67 yards per completion/3.83 yards per pass attempt)...Registered 22 third-down stops, including 18 vs. the pass...Did not allow his main pass coverage assignment to catch any passes in seven contests, as those receivers managed just seven receptions for 66 yards (9.43 yards per completion)..." - nfl draft scout

Shut down corner thy name is Jenkins.

bah007
04-21-2009, 05:05 PM
But I can't say that I was impressed with the 10-tackle game though.
That one I did watch a couple of times, and didn't know what to think of it!

I thought Ohio St's defense played decent in that game and I actually thought Jenkins played pretty damn good.

Too bad their offense could only muster 3 yards per play and gave away 3 turnovers.

Arizona and Arizona St were the only teams that held USC to less yards per play than Ohio St did.

dtran04
04-21-2009, 05:11 PM
All I know is the Texans always draft guys that the fans/media NEVER talk about. The only guy in recent memory is Eric Winston.

76Texan
04-21-2009, 05:31 PM
I thought Ohio St's defense played decent in that game and I actually thought Jenkins played pretty damn good.

Too bad their offense could only muster 3 yards per play and gave away 3 turnovers.

Arizona and Arizona St were the only teams that held USC to less yards per play than Ohio St did.

I guess I'm terribly difficult, 'cause I wasn't impressed by the SC LB corp in that game either, with Beanie out and all.

I imagine that you're right. Considering the score, his plays were as good as a defensive player can claim. I'm pretty sure I have to give him better than a C, probably a B-

76Texan
04-21-2009, 05:33 PM
Malcolm Jenkins coverage stats from 2008:

"Held the opposition to 230 yards and no touchdowns on 30 catches of 60 passes targeted into his area (7.67 yards per completion/3.83 yards per pass attempt)...Registered 22 third-down stops, including 18 vs. the pass...Did not allow his main pass coverage assignment to catch any passes in seven contests, as those receivers managed just seven receptions for 66 yards (9.43 yards per completion)..." - nfl draft scout

Shut down corner thy name is Jenkins.

Goat, I don't study Jenkins, so I don't know.
But just curious, who all was he guarding?

bah007
04-21-2009, 05:34 PM
I guess I'm terribly difficult, 'cause I wasn't impressed by the SC LB corp in that game either, with Beanie out and all.

I imagine that you're right. Considering the score, his plays were as good as a defensive player can claim. I'm pretty sure I have to give him better than a C, probably a B-

I feel you. It's hard to give a high grade when the team loses by 32.

76Texan
04-21-2009, 05:47 PM
i feel you. It's hard to give a high grade when the team loses by 32.

k :)

Goatcheese
04-21-2009, 05:58 PM
Goat, I don't study Jenkins, so I don't know.
But just curious, who all was he guarding?

They didn't say which 7 games he shut his man down, or who he gave up the 7 receptions to.

RipTraxx
04-21-2009, 06:07 PM
Im not doubting that he'll be good. Im just not a fan of drafting a college corner, and switching him to a position he rarely plays, at 15. IMO thats taking a huge gamble financially....

DE/OLB to me isnt too much of a switch, but even then a lot of guys dont pan out ex. Vernon Gholston.

Goatcheese
04-21-2009, 06:26 PM
Im not doubting that he'll be good. Im just not a fan of drafting a college corner, and switching him to a position he rarely plays, at 15. IMO thats taking a huge gamble financially....

DE/OLB to me isnt too much of a switch, but even then a lot of guys dont pan out ex. Vernon Gholston.

That's why I wouldn't switch his position. Fellow Ohio St. alumni Chris Gamble (CB Carolina) only ran a 4.52 in the 40. He is one of the best corners in the NFL today.

Jenkins is plenty fast to play corner. The difference between his 4.51 and Nnamdi Asomugha's 4.45 is about 18 inches over 40 yards. He will have to be careful and stay out of the trail technique, but other than that it shouldn't significantly limit him.

His agility drills are better than last years freak DRC by more than a tenth of a second.

rmartin65
04-21-2009, 06:34 PM
I think people are making too much of a big deal over the 40 time. Sure, speed is important, but instincts, technique and agility are more important. He has proven that he is a good player, someone is going to get a solid 10 year starter with Jenkins.

Goatcheese
04-21-2009, 06:41 PM
Goat, I don't study Jenkins, so I don't know.
But just curious, who all was he guarding?

Actually I take that back, just found this:

Youngstown State … Jenkins did not allow a reception while breaking up two passes, both coming on third-down plays … Forced YSU to punt after breaking up a Todd Rowan third-&-13 pass midway through the first quarter and did it again on a third-&-10 snap with 1:55 left in the third frame … Also killed a fourth quarter possession when he prevented Dom Barnes from getting to a third-&-11 pass … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#1-Ferlando Williams (6:01-190)-did not catch any passes vs. Jenkins.

Ohio University … Jenkins picked off a pass, deflected another, jammed his coverage assignment on three incomplete throws and tackled Chris Garrett for a 3-yard loss on a second quarter swing pass … Three of his hits came on third-down plays, as he also intercepted Boo Jackson's third-&-10 second quarter pass at the OSU 39 … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#7-LaVon Brazil (5:11-189)-did not catch any passes vs. Jenkins.

Southern California … It was a game the All-American would just as soon forget, as his two penalties led to Trojan touchdowns in a 35-3 loss … Her jumped offside on a late first quarter third-&-4 pass attempt and QB Mark Sanchez followed with a 35-yard scoring strike to Stanley Havili … Jenkins was charged with a face mask penalty on an 18-yard catch by Patrick Turner, setting up Sanchez' 24-yard touchdown toss … Jenkins made a season-high ten tackles (6 solos) for the day … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#1-Patrick Turner (6:05-220)-caught one pass for 18 yards vs. Jenkins.

Minnesota … In the Buckeyes' opening of Big Ten competition, Jenkins posted four solo tackles … Late in the third quarter, a corner blitz saw Jenkins chase down QB Adam Weber for a 10-yard loss, causing a fumble that OSU recovered at the Gophers 25 … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#81-Ralph Spry (5:11-179)-caught one pass for 4 yards vs. Jenkins.

Wisconsin … Jenkins picked off a pass, deflected another and made four tackles … He brought out the Badgers punting unit after rerouting Isaac Anderson from a third-&-6 incomplete pass at the start of the second half … With 1:03 left in the game, he preserved a 20-17 decision when he picked off an Allan Evridge pass for a 7-yard return and the Buckeyes ran out the clock … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#6-Isaac Anderson (5:11-176)-caught one pass for 8 yards vs. Jenkins.

Purdue … Jenkins registered three third-down stops and another on fourth down among his four solo tackles, as he also blocked a punt, intercepted a pass and deflected another in a 23-7 triumph … after Purdue's game-opening possession failed, he blocked a Chris Summers punt that OSU recovered for a touchdown … At the start of the second quarter, he picked off a third-&-9 toss by Curtis Painter at the Purdue 30 … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#19-Brandon Whittington (6:02-213)-did not catch any passes vs. Jenkins.

Michigan State … Jenkins made two third-down hits and rerouted his coverage assignment three times while delivering nine tackles (7 solos) with an 8-yard sack and a forced fumble … MSU was forced to punt late in the first quarter after the OSU cornerback took down All-American tailback Javon Ringer for a 3-yard loss … Sacked QB Kirk Cousins for an 8-yard loss on third-&-11, causing a fumble that OSU recovered for a touchdown … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#3-B.J. Cunningham (6:02-207)-did not catch any passes vs. Jenkins.

Penn State … The field cornerback rerouted receivers away from two passes and made three third-down hits among his four tackles … In the fourth quarter, he stopped Evan Royster on a third-&-10 catch-&-run that netted just 7 yards, bringing out PSU's punting squad … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#3-Deon Butler (5:10-168)-caught one pass for 4 yards vs. Jenkins.

Northwestern … Jenkins followed with seven tackles (3 solos), as he also caused a fumble when he knocked the ball out of Eric Peterman's hands after a 5-yard catch and the Buck-eyes recovered it to set up a 33-yard field goal … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#10-Eric Peterman (6:01-195)-caught two passes for 27 yards vs. Jenkins.

Illinois … Jenkins registered just two tackles, but he blocked a late first quarter punt that resulted in a safety and deflected three passes … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#13-Will Judson (5:08-163)-did not catch any passes vs. Jenkins.

Michigan … The defensive captain made five tackles, including three on third-down plays that forced the Wolverines to punt after each occasion … Brought the crowd to its feet when he came out of nowhere to knock a Nick Sheridan pass out of the hands of Greg Matthews midway through the final quarter … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#13-Greg Matthews (6:03-207)-did not catch any passes vs. Jenkins.

Texas (Fiesta Bowl) … Jenkins closed out his career with three tackles, including an assist in stopping fullback Chris Ogbonnaya for a 1-yard loss on a rushing attempt to start the second quarter … Main Pass Coverage Assignment: WR#3-Jordan Shipley (6:00-197)-did not catch any passes vs. Jenkins.


Better?

steelbtexan
04-21-2009, 08:11 PM
Goat those stats are skewed

Why did Jenkins always cover the weaker receiver?

I will point out the 4 games that I'm familiar with

OSU vs USC Jenkins covered Turner instead of no.1 Williams
OSU vs Penn St Butler instead of Williams
OSU vs ILL Judson instead of Benn
OSU vs TEX Jenkins covered Cosby instead of Shipley most of time.

bah007
04-21-2009, 08:13 PM
Goat those stats are skewed

Why did Jenkins always cover the weaker receiver?

I will point out the 4 games that I'm familiar with

OSU vs USC Jenkins covered Turner instead of no.1 Williams
OSU vs Penn St Butler instead of Williams
OSU vs ILL Judson instead of Benn
OSU vs TEX Jenkins covered Cosby instead of Shipley most of time.

Ohio St seems to always put Jenkins on the better route runner, not necessarily the "better" or "weaker" WR.

steelbtexan
04-21-2009, 08:25 PM
USC they talked about how great of a route runner Williams was and how in tune he was with Sanchez

ILL Dont know about Judsons route running is vs Benn
Penn St I know that during the Senoir Bowl they talked about how quick Williams is coming out of his breaks. Dont know how good of a route runner Butler is.

Texas Cosby is a better route runner than Shipley IMO. Although Shipely is a very good route runner also.

Killer Bee
04-21-2009, 08:35 PM
Those are very impressive stats. I admit that I’ve been on the fence about Jenkins because of a concern he would struggle in man coverage. I’m guilty of overvaluing his 40 time and I’m changing my stance. What’s most important is the guy’s a player. He could really shore up our secondary as a corner. I would only put him at FS as a contingency if Wilson got hurt.

bah007
04-21-2009, 08:44 PM
USC they talked about how great of a route runner Williams was and how in tune he was with Sanchez

ILL Dont know about Judsons route running is vs Benn
Penn St I know that during the Senoir Bowl they talked about how quick Williams is coming out of his breaks. Dont know how good of a route runner Butler is.

Texas Cosby is a better route runner than Shipley IMO. Although Shipely is a very good route runner also.

It's just conjecture based on what I've seen.

Williams had only played one game with USC before the Ohio St game. Maybe the Ohio St coaches saw Turner as a bigger threat because he was a returning starter.

The only knock out there on Benn is his route running. Everything else is top notch. Judson was a smart player who ran great routes.

Butler is renowned at State College for his route running ability.

Cosby and Shipley are pretty even in the route department but Shipley gets downfield more often, which is probably why Jenkins drew the assignment.

The most important thing about Jenkins is...he can play. Doesn't matter who he covered. he shut em' all down. Why be picky about who he shut down?

Goatcheese
04-21-2009, 08:58 PM
Goat those stats are skewed

Why did Jenkins always cover the weaker receiver?

I will point out the 4 games that I'm familiar with

OSU vs USC Jenkins covered Turner instead of no.1 Williams
OSU vs Penn St Butler instead of Williams
OSU vs ILL Judson instead of Benn
OSU vs TEX Jenkins covered Cosby instead of Shipley most of time.

In the games I saw they put him on one guy to lock him down, then rolled the coverage to the other side to support their weaker corner.

They probably felt like they would get the best results doubling the #1 and leaving Jenkins in iso on the #2.

Ole Miss Texan
04-21-2009, 09:15 PM
In the games I saw they put him on one guy to lock him down, then rolled the coverage to the other side to support their weaker corner.

They probably felt like they would get the best results doubling the #1 and leaving Jenkins in iso on the #2.

This is kind of what I was thinking as well. I don't really know what ohio state really did or anything but I read somewhere (could have sworn it was cbs sports) that mentioned Jenkins mostly played on the short side of the field. It could have been something else, but that's what i seem to remember. Didn't we kind of keep Dunta on a certain side of the field too?

I remember that train of thought was that, if he could lock down that side of the field, they trust him enough that they can have a S help out the other side. After reviewing game highlights after highlights of different games trying to see who was responsible for each score... the same dudes were always getting burned. And it wasn't Jenkins. They definitely shifted some players around to try and mask those coverage deficiencies. They just let Jenkins do his thing.

steelbtexan
04-21-2009, 09:23 PM
In the games I saw they put him on one guy to lock him down, then rolled the coverage to the other side to support their weaker corner.

They probably felt like they would get the best results doubling the #1 and leaving Jenkins in iso on the #2.

Logical

Great answer

I still cant get out of my mind, if he struggled to cover Quan Cosby how is he going to fare against Moss, Fitzgerald, TO, & Wayne twice a year?

I hope it goes better than I expect.

The1ApplePie
04-21-2009, 09:27 PM
Everytime I see Malcolm Jenkins I think about Dwayne Jarrett destroying him

Then I think about why my boy Dwayne had to be such a bust in the NFL (so far anyways):foottap:

Ole Miss Texan
04-21-2009, 09:34 PM
Logical

Great answer

I still cant get out of my mind, if he struggled to cover Quan Cosby how is he going to fare against Moss, Fitzgerald, TO, & Wayne twice a year?

I hope it goes better than I expect.

How did he struggle to cover Cosby? The only time he got beat by him in the Fiesta Bowl was when Cosby cut inside and Jenkins ran into a pick set by his own LB. The play was from the 7 yard line.

The main worry people are having about Jenkins is his 40 time. Their worry is what you described above. But it doesn't seem he ever got beat deep this year so I just don't understand why people are acting like he did. Now don't get me wrong, I worry about any CB covering those WRs... and I think Jenkins (esp. his rookie season) will probably get beat a few times by guys like Wayne. But who doesn't!?

Ole Miss Texan
04-21-2009, 09:52 PM
How's this:
Vontae Davis ran a 4.40 Forty at the Combine.

Davis gave up 2 TDs against David Gilreath from Wisconsin.

Gilreath had 31 receptions for 520 yards and 3 TDs for the year. 2 of those came against 4.40 forty Vontae. Soooo Davis should have no problem covering Wayne, Moss, T.O. etc. :)

steelbtexan
04-21-2009, 10:01 PM
I dont put alot of stock in 40 times. Although if I have two guys rated equal I would take the one who runs the fastest. I put more stock in the cone drills and 10-20 yard split times.

It's not that I dont like Jenkins. I just believe we need to give Mario some help and improve against the run more than improving the secondary.

I think Smithiak will draft a CB in the 3-4th rds. This has been their history 07 Bennett 08 Molden.

I'm going to do a mock tonight or in the morning check it out.

TimeKiller
04-22-2009, 07:57 AM
I think Smithiak will draft a CB in the 3-4th rds. This has been their history 07 Bennett 08 Molden.
.

There are at least 2 guys I've seen who fit the mold perfectly. Bradley Fletcher is one, there is also a guy from Iowa...

BigBull17
04-22-2009, 08:27 AM
How's this:
Vontae Davis ran a 4.40 Forty at the Combine.

Davis gave up 2 TDs against David Gilreath from Wisconsin.

Gilreath had 31 receptions for 520 yards and 3 TDs for the year. 2 of those came against 4.40 forty Vontae. Soooo Davis should have no problem covering Wayne, Moss, T.O. etc. :)

I really don't want any part of Davis. Kind of a lazy player.

Maddict5
04-22-2009, 08:46 AM
There are at least 2 guys I've seen who fit the mold perfectly. Bradley Fletcher is one, there is also a guy from Iowa...


bradley fletcher is from iowa i think. so theres at least 1 guy that fits the mold perfectly :)

bah007
04-22-2009, 09:15 AM
Logical

Great answer

I still cant get out of my mind, if he struggled to cover Quan Cosby how is he going to fare against Moss, Fitzgerald, TO, & Wayne twice a year?

I hope it goes better than I expect.

Once again, Jenkins didn't struggle against Cosby.

I would describe your disdain (not the word I wanted to use but I couldn't think of a better one) for Jenkins to be more of a gut feeling than anything else.

All evidence points the other way and yet you still get a bad feeling about him.

Which is fine btw, we can't all agree.

bah007
04-22-2009, 09:15 AM
There are at least 2 guys I've seen who fit the mold perfectly. Bradley Fletcher is one, there is also a guy from Iowa...

Bradley Fletcher is my favorite prospect in this draft. He will be a real player in the NFL. I hope we can get him in the third.

76Texan
04-22-2009, 01:35 PM
I take back the B- grade for Jenkins in the USC game. It should be a C.

About the same for the Wisconsin game.

I don't see a lock-down corner.
I can see him getting beat by the NFL's QBs and receivers.

76Texan
04-22-2009, 04:07 PM
Goat, thanks for the breakdown.

Illini game - First quarter.

Right on top of the receiver #13... but... it was a pass inteference that wasn't called. (I hated it when some of these announcers - Andre Ware in this case - just ignore or gloss over these All-Americans or big names guys when they made a mistake. If you listen on the radio, you'd think a guy made a good play, but actually he whiffed, like Aaron Curry in the game against Navy, for example.) So change a pass deflection to pass inteference, won't ya.

Redzone defense.
Jenkins was one of the defenders who had no clear target to defend and just let the TE slip in the back for a TD. Jenkins was furthest on his side, and he was just standing around doing nothing!
Was it his primary assignment? Not sure!
Can he prevent it? Yes!
When you play the deep zone, does it mean you sit there and read the newspaper? No! Especially if you're considered a first-round pick.

One or both tackles on the next series defending the run are toward his side.
Good job shedding off the blocker on one tackle, but nothing spectacular.

Block the punt untouched (no blocker.) Actually, another guy got there first (Aaron Gant).
I'd give them both credit.

Andre Ware (on the punter): He takes entirely too long... You almost have to cut the time in half.

I might watch the rest of the game if I feel like it.
Doesn't sound like Jenkins would be doing anything special afterward though.