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View Full Version : Texans targeting DE Antonio Smith/in town Saturday


TEXANS84
02-25-2009, 10:32 PM
Per Bob Allen on ABC13 Houston. No link, heard and saw it.
Bob stated a "perfect compliment to Mario Williams on the defensive line".

LINK to player profile (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5660&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fplayers%2fprofile%3fplayerId%3d5660)

Seems like another Anthony Weaver to me. If he is for depth and really cheap, sure. Big contract and I'll lose faith in the Smithiak regime.

Jackie Chiles
02-25-2009, 10:37 PM
Is it Bob's opinion that he is a perfect compliment and they should target him or does he have a Texan source saying they will pursue him?

kiwitexansfan
02-25-2009, 10:37 PM
Doesn't exactly seem like a pass rushing specialist that I thought we would be after.

At least he is a bit on that 'who dat' side so we shouldn't have to break the bank on him.

J-Russ
02-25-2009, 10:38 PM
Found this scouting report on him, pre-superbowl:


Defensive line: Pittsburgh nose tackle Casey Hampton gobbles up double teams, and ends Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel are strong at the point of attack. The Cardinals don't play with great technique up front. Antonio Smith has been the best lately, recording four sacks in his past six games. Edge: Steelers

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-superscout0131,0,2206610.htmlstory

Here's another one from Fox Sports, before he was drafted:

Smith has a lot of potential for success at the next level. In 2003, he came up with a total of five sacks and 29 tackles. He has the size and frame to get even bigger. Smith is noted for his strong work ethic and physical attributes. He is also known for giving 100 percent on every play and never giving up on a play. Some scouts are concerned with Smith's speed as an edge rusher. He often has difficulty shedding tackles once a blocker locks on, but improving his pass rushing skills should help him eliminate this problem.

http://foxsports.foxnews.com/nfl/story/7985/Antonio-Smith-Scouting-Report

One more by Scott of NFLDC:


Strengths: Has good size with the frame to get bigger...Hard worker who always gives 100%...Tall...Good strength...Good un pursuit and never gives up on a play.

Weaknesses: Doesn't have the top speed of an edge pass rusher...Needs to develop some more pass rush moves...Once he gets locked on to he rarely makes a play.

Notes: A project who still needs to get bigger but could eventually develop into a solid pro.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040408194343/www.nfldraftcountdown.com/profiles/de/antoniosmith.html

He was ranked as the 27th DE by Scott, in the 2004 draft. That's right, he was ranked 23 spot below the immortal Jason Babin.

Also, he was drafted in the 5th round of the 2004 draft. About 6'4, 285lbs, and is 27 years old.

Oh btw, he's from A&M. What a shocker.

TEXANS84
02-25-2009, 10:48 PM
Is it Bob's opinion that he is a perfect compliment and they should target him or does he have a Texan source saying they will pursue him?

A source told him per his 10pm sports report.

DiehardChris
02-25-2009, 10:50 PM
Hm. John McClain has openly pined for this guy, now Bob Allen. It would be nice if they would put the video of the segment on their site so we could get the full context. I echo Jackie's question - are you SURE he was actually saying that the Texans are going to pursue him? Or is he just throwing some names out?

I don't get how he's a "perfect compliment." I mean, he's okay... but he's not a dramatic upgrade IMO. They wouldn't sign this guy for depth, so I wonder how this will affect their draft plans for a DE.

DiehardChris
02-25-2009, 10:50 PM
A source told him per his 10pm sports report.

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

J-Russ
02-25-2009, 10:53 PM
Hm. John McClain has openly pined for this guy, now Bob Allen. It would be nice if they would put the video of the segment on their site so we could get the full context. I echo Jackie's question - are you SURE he was actually saying that the Texans are going to pursue him? Or is he just throwing some names out?

I don't get how he's a "perfect compliment." I mean, he's okay... but he's not a dramatic upgrade IMO. They wouldn't sign this guy for depth, so I wonder how this will affect their draft plans for a DE.

I doubt it would have any marginal affect to their plan of drafting a DE high. They know there's a good chance that a rookie DE might not be able to start/contribute right away. They had first-hand experience of that with Mario. Smith isn't a player that will make you "set" at that position, he's a stop-gap guy. He's a guy that will fill in for a year or two, play in his prime for us, while we ease the rookie in.

J-Russ
02-25-2009, 10:57 PM
Card's fan take on Smith potentially leaving them.

He probably won't be back next year. He looked amazing in the playoffs, and he earned a big payday. Smith is good, dont get me wrong, but he will get overpaid like Calvin Pace. I wish the Cards would resign him, but I think he will end up leaving. Can Calais Campbell replace him? Thoughts?

http://forums.azcardinals.com/showthread.php?t=40532

Atleast he actually raise his game in the post-season, unlike most Houston sport players. *cough* Yao *cough*

I really hope we don't overpay this guy, but then again I'm not watching tapes of him and reviewing him as a player like Smith/Kubiak are. The only knock on him was his fundamental part of his game, his techniques. It sure wasn't his athleticism, size, nor love for the game. Maybe the game just "clicked" for him, and he became a better player through the years. Kubiak/Smith would know whether or not he can help our team, and I know they're doing their homework to find out. Whatever Kubiak/Smith does, I will trust them.

Let's just hope he won't be another big FA bust.

DiehardChris
02-25-2009, 11:04 PM
Apparently he started slow and got stronger at the end of the year. I don't know if that's because the defense as a whole got so much better, or if he was just kind of Cadillac'ing it and decided he needed to get it in gear to earn a fat new contract.

texanfan2002114
02-25-2009, 11:38 PM
I really think the Texans are targeting Smith. I feel that our new DC (Frank Bush) said he wants Antonio Smith and he would know better than any of us since he coached on that Cardnials team and coached Smith for 2 years and has seen Smith's ability and work ethnic.

Nawzer
02-25-2009, 11:47 PM
For what its worth, Yahoo Sports has him listed at no.38 in their top 100 free agents list.

Specnatz
02-25-2009, 11:57 PM
For what its worth, Yahoo Sports has him listed at no.38 in their top 100 free agents list.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ahh0.8rIgZhi5qtKKQ_QmDVDubYF?slug=ys-freeagenttracker022509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Yeah, behind greats such as:

9. Phillip Buchanon, CB: Florida native likely to return to Tampa Bay. Bucs have the cash.

27. Drayton Florence, CB: He never fit in Jacksonville, but his age and experience will make him a commodity again.

35. Cedric Benson, RB: Finally showed some determined production in ’08, but he’s still too risky for a major contractual commitment.

painekiller
02-26-2009, 12:10 AM
Oh btw, he's from A&M. What a shocker.


Also his coach until two years ago was Frank Bush. This sounds like Bush getting one of his guys. Not that I like the pick up. Sounds like a Weaver type to me.

Jackie Chiles
02-26-2009, 12:16 AM
Oh btw, he's from A&M. What a shocker.

Everything I have read says Oklahoma State.

Mari-OWNED!
02-26-2009, 12:23 AM
I'm fine with the Texans picking this guy up in Free Agency for cheap, so long as it doesn't change the fact that the Texans should STILL draft a DE in the 1st or 2nd round.

ChampionTexan
02-26-2009, 12:24 AM
For what its worth, Yahoo Sports has him listed at no.38 in their top 100 free agents list.

Prisco at CBS Sportsline him ranked #4 overall behind Haynesworth, Jason Brown, and Chris Canty.

CBS Sportsline (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11425323)

Scouts.com (Fox) has him at #29, but the list looks a bit dated, and at least 14 of the guys ahead of him have either been franchised, or re-signed (or in the case of Brandon Jacobs, both).

Fox Sports (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&yr=2009)

Obviously, it's all pretty subjective, but it does appear there's a pretty good case to be made that he's one of the top FA DE's out there this year

Big Poundcake
02-26-2009, 12:37 AM
I'd be fine with this.

Would this mean the Texans might draft a OLB with their 1st pick and pick up another DE with a later pick?

Which OLB's would likely be available at #15? Brian Cushing

Jackie Chiles
02-26-2009, 12:47 AM
I'm fine with the Texans picking this guy up in Free Agency for cheap, so long as it doesn't change the fact that the Texans should STILL draft a DE in the 1st or 2nd round.

If he was cheap the Cardinals would have re-signed him. This guy is going to get paid a ton of money. I would wager it will be significantly more than we paid Weaver in 2006. I think they could still draft a DE early but man, if you think hes gonna be cheap you are going to be sorely disappointed.

Sal Rosenberg
02-26-2009, 12:47 AM
We need a DT.Plain and Simple ! Shawn Rogers?No thanks!Fat Al?


How about this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQgnFw5fMaA&feature=PlayList&p=3D7FEDDE66DA546A&playnext=1&index=1

Line_Producer
02-26-2009, 02:41 AM
As a short aside about Antonio Smith.

He's the sort of high character team player that the Texan's love. I got to interview during the Superbowl this year.

When asked about what is important to him, his reply "Not a lot of guys will talk about this, but my faith in Jesus is number one. I don't care what the media says, I'm going to talk about it."

Legit. Plus I have a great photo of him doing his right arm pose.

-wi

mussop
02-26-2009, 03:47 AM
Surely we arent going to pay Peppers backup too much. :foottap:

whiskeyrbl
02-26-2009, 04:41 AM
I really think the Texans are targeting Smith. I feel that our new DC (Frank Bush) said he wants Antonio Smith and he would know better than any of us since he coached on that Cardnials team and coached Smith for 2 years and has seen Smith's ability and work ethnic.

Good point!:fans:

PHAROAH
02-26-2009, 05:50 AM
I think it's a great move he is only 26 years old and he looked good in the playoffs. The Texans will still draft another pass rusher in the draft in either the first or second round and right now we have no one at the spot and we don't want to have to rush a rookie into the starting line-up. Good move.

Malloy
02-26-2009, 06:17 AM
Also his coach until two years ago was Frank Bush. This sounds like Bush getting one of his guys. Not that I like the pick up. Sounds like a Weaver type to me.

That alone makes it a good pickup for me. Our coach knows the player and what he can contribute with, that's better than ANY scout would ever be able to come up with.

J-Russ
02-26-2009, 06:37 AM
Everything I have read says Oklahoma State.

His draft bio from NFLDC said Texas A&M, but I'm probably wrong since the official NFL page said OK St.

ArlingtonTexan
02-26-2009, 07:07 AM
from espn.com

Smith is a fifth-year player who started 10 games during the regular season. He has good size and strength and uses good technique versus the run or pass. He is versatile enough to line up inside or outside and the Cardinals have utilized his versatility in a variety of roles within their schemes. Against the run, he has good initial quickness with very good hand placement. He can stack, slip off contact quickly and shows good reactions to blocking schemes. He gives good effort to the ball and has enough lateral quickness to flow effectively down the line or give good backside chase. As a pass-rusher, he has good strength to push the pocket as an inline rusher. Smith also uses his hands well to work off the frame or to counter contact in a tight area. He has good short-area quickness with the ability to flip or change directions quickly, which allows him to be effective on twists and stunts. Overall, Smith is a good technician who plays with solid effort. He is a versatile player that can take reps inside or outside, depending on the situation.

ESPN's grade is 73 which equals a good starter and 4th in the DE category.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/02/notes-from-lombardi-free-agent-d-ends/

THIRD-DOWN AND CAN RUSH

Name, height, weight; speed; age; agent

Chris Canty, 6-7, 280; NA; 26; Brad Blank — A big, physical, young base end who can slide inside and play over the guard in nickel. Can flash dominating talent at times, and when he rushes from the inside it’s difficult to throw the ball over his outstretched arms.

Antonio Smith, 6-3, 272; 4.98; 27; Drew Rosenhaus — Not a big-time rusher but has an impact on third down if other rushers are able to get there. His quickness is good and he can move inside.

ArlingtonTexan
02-26-2009, 07:16 AM
Antonio Smith is a starting DE and will get starter's money from us or whereever he lands. At 27, he is entering the prime of his career. If he does sign with Houston, it changes the priority of DE in the draft as he coming to be an everydown player. He won't preclude the Texans drafting a DE relatively high, but the chances go down greatly.

gtexan02
02-26-2009, 07:41 AM
Antonio Smith is a starting DE and will get starter's money from us or whereever he lands. At 27, he is entering the prime of his career. If he does sign with Houston, it changes the priority of DE in the draft as he coming to be an everydown player. He won't preclude the Texans drafting a DE relatively high, but the chances go down greatly.

I could see us taking a chance on a more situation type pass rusher, like the Broncos did with Dumervil.

nunusguy
02-26-2009, 07:42 AM
In the last 4 years this guy has a total of 14.5 sacks. If you do the numbers that averages out to < 4 sacks per season. Very mediocre at best.

BigBull17
02-26-2009, 07:44 AM
I doubt it would have any marginal affect to their plan of drafting a DE high. They know there's a good chance that a rookie DE might not be able to start/contribute right away. They had first-hand experience of that with Mario. Smith isn't a player that will make you "set" at that position, he's a stop-gap guy. He's a guy that will fill in for a year or two, play in his prime for us, while we ease the rookie in.

It would allow us to get a pass rush specialist. He would be a 2 down DE, one down DT. As long as he is cheap, it should be a good signing. I like the Van Den Bosh like write up. Motor is good, and contagious.

HOU-TEX
02-26-2009, 08:46 AM
Antonio Smith is a starting DE and will get starter's money from us or whereever he lands. At 27, he is entering the prime of his career. If he does sign with Houston, it changes the priority of DE in the draft as he coming to be an everydown player. He won't preclude the Texans drafting a DE relatively high, but the chances go down greatly.

I agree. I still think we'll grab a DE somewhere in the draft, but other than a couple two or three, this class of DE's isn't very strong.

As for Smith, anybody know the numbers of his previous contract?

GP
02-26-2009, 09:00 AM
Anthony Weaver, the sequel.

Not liking all the stuff I have read about him.

steelbtexan
02-26-2009, 09:04 AM
Anthony Weaver, the sequel.

Not liking all the stuff I have read about him.

This is what I'm thinking.

Kirwan likes him alot so that gives him some validity in my book.

He did look like he was capable of rushing the passer in the playoffs.

Polo
02-26-2009, 09:08 AM
Says the guy has a high motor...

If thats the case then he's nothing like Weaver...

b0ng
02-26-2009, 09:15 AM
Anthony Weaver, the sequel.

Not liking all the stuff I have read about him.

The few Cardinal fans that I can talk to have expressed their desire for him to stay. He was drafted in the 5th round and was very raw but has turned into a pretty decent DE in their eyes. High chaeracter, high motor, not going to out-talent or out-athlete anybody but can out-work people.

Obviously if he's signed to a ridiculously high contract that would be bad, but I don't mind Bush trying to bring a few players over here to usher in his philosophy (and if it keeps us from giving a billion dollars to Haynesworth or Peppers, then I'm down with that too). I'll have to wait and see what he wants to play for monetarily before I decide if I like him or not.

But yeah, a move like this just smells Texansish.

Second Honeymoon
02-26-2009, 09:27 AM
why overpay for top guys that can actually make plays when you can overpay for 2nd and 3rd tier guys that can't do squat.

this is just another second rate free agent signing. you would think they would learn from past mistakes both pre and post Kubiak, but it sure seems like they are more than happy to overpay for someone else's garbage.

until they start going after the top free agents that can actually improve the team, i am not sure about this current regime. i will give them credit for going after someone without Denver ties but this smells Weaver-ish to me.

Remember all the things that they said about Weaver....deja-vu anyone?

Blake
02-26-2009, 09:28 AM
Scout.com (http://sdg.scout.com/2/836181.html) has an article on him saying that the Chargers should get this guy for their 3-4 defense.

That is the question. Is he a 4-3 or 3-4 DE? Is he going to stand his ground and occupy blockers, or is he going to split double teams and rush the passer.

If they do sign Smith then we know that Weaver was cut for lack of heart and lack of a motor as they seem like roughly the same type of player.

HOU-TEX
02-26-2009, 09:32 AM
why overpay for top guys that can actually make plays when you can overpay for 2nd and 3rd tier guys that can't do squat.

this is just another second rate free agent signing. you would think they would learn from past mistakes both pre and post Kubiak, but it sure seems like they are more than happy to overpay for someone else's garbage.

until they start going after the top free agents that can actually improve the team, i am not sure about this current regime. i will give them credit for going after someone without Denver ties but this smells Weaver-ish to me.

Remember all the things that they said about Weaver....deja-vu anyone?

Well, there it is folks. If SH is bitching about a potential signing.....then it must be a good one. :)

El Tejano
02-26-2009, 09:34 AM
I really think the Texans are targeting Smith. I feel that our new DC (Frank Bush) said he wants Antonio Smith and he would know better than any of us since he coached on that Cardnials team and coached Smith for 2 years and has seen Smith's ability and work ethnic.

I agree with this. Kubiak does listen to his coaches and I'm sure Bush put in a word for him.

Also, maybe the Texans see some talent in the later rounds like 2 or 3 for DEs and really like a DB or LB.
After watching Prime Time U, I really liked Emmanuel Cook. I also like the show, it really showed you how you can't go with combine #s too much. Cook was running 4.4 and 4.3 while preparing and then ran a 4.6 at the combine.

dalemurphy
02-26-2009, 09:36 AM
why overpay for top guys that can actually make plays when you can overpay for 2nd and 3rd tier guys that can't do squat.

this is just another second rate free agent signing. you would think they would learn from past mistakes both pre and post Kubiak, but it sure seems like they are more than happy to overpay for someone else's garbage.

until they start going after the top free agents that can actually improve the team, i am not sure about this current regime. i will give them credit for going after someone without Denver ties but this smells Weaver-ish to me.

Remember all the things that they said about Weaver....deja-vu anyone?

Typical Second Honeymoom. Let's see... you are criticizing the Texans for:

1. Signing someone they haven't signed
2. his quality of play even though he hasn't played a down.. he's no even on the team.
3. Complaining that the Texans have overpaid for a guy whome they haven't paid anything for yet.



Classic!

GP
02-26-2009, 09:36 AM
The few Cardinal fans that I can talk to have expressed their desire for him to stay. He was drafted in the 5th round and was very raw but has turned into a pretty decent DE in their eyes. High chaeracter, high motor, not going to out-talent or out-athlete anybody but can out-work people.

Obviously if he's signed to a ridiculously high contract that would be bad, but I don't mind Bush trying to bring a few players over here to usher in his philosophy (and if it keeps us from giving a billion dollars to Haynesworth or Peppers, then I'm down with that too). I'll have to wait and see what he wants to play for monetarily before I decide if I like him or not.

But yeah, a move like this just smells Texansish.

Outside of Mario, Bulman, Robinson, and Cochran...I don't see a "high motor" on our dline. Weaver was touted as bringing great leadership, high character, and the residue of being on that Ravens defense.

If Smith is signed, and he has a high motor, then good.

At the moment, it looks like we dumped one high character guy and replaced him with another high character guy. Frank Bush trusts him, he knows him. But I hope that's not the deciding factor here.

Here's to hoping that the change in dline coach, dcoord, and a second-year effort by Mario, Bulman, Robinson, Cochran can be coupled with improved play by TJ, Amobi, and Okam. It has got to come together this year, IMO.

nero THE zero
02-26-2009, 09:39 AM
Scout.com (http://sdg.scout.com/2/836181.html) has an article on him saying that the Chargers should get this guy for their 3-4 defense.

That is the question. Is he a 4-3 or 3-4 DE? Is he going to stand his ground and occupy blockers, or is he going to split double teams and rush the passer.

If they do sign Smith then we know that Weaver was cut for lack of heart and lack of a motor as they seem like roughly the same type of player.

According to the thread (http://forums.azcardinals.com/showthread.php?t=40532) on the Cardinals fansite, Smith is not interested in playing in a 3-4.

So, in that facet, he's nothing like Anthony Weaver.

Errant Hothy
02-26-2009, 09:44 AM
First things first; I think everybody needs to get over the pipedream of signing somebody like Peppers to be the complimentary DE to Mario. That's the key here, whomever we sign isn't going to, or expected to, put up huge sack numbers (nor will they have ever put up big sack numbers, because a) teams don't let those guys go and b) they're too damn costly). He needs to be better then average against the run and have the ability to disrupt the pocket; making Mario's job easier.

Mario is our primary sack artist, what we need is a complimentary player not another star.

El Tejano
02-26-2009, 09:47 AM
In the last 4 years this guy has a total of 14.5 sacks. If you do the numbers that averages out to < 4 sacks per season. Very mediocre at best.

Without a Mario Williams on the other side of him.

Polo
02-26-2009, 09:48 AM
First things first; I think everybody needs to get over the pipedream of signing somebody like Peppers to be the complimentary DE to Mario. That's the key here, whomever we sign isn't going to, or expected to, put up huge sack numbers (nor will they have ever put up big sack numbers, because a) teams don't let those guys go and b) they're too damn costly). He needs to be better then average against the run and have the ability to disrupt the pocket; making Mario's job easier.

Mario is our primary sack artist, what we need is a complimentary player not another star.

Agreed.

If this DE is signed then I think that a lot of peoples mocks need to change.

Hervoyel
02-26-2009, 09:49 AM
According to the thread (http://forums.azcardinals.com/showthread.php?t=40532) on the Cardinals fansite, Smith is not interested in playing in a 3-4.

So, in that facet, he's nothing like Anthony Weaver.

From that thread you posted

Keep him, this cat has busted his tail to not only make the team year after year but he is a contributer. I don't think I've seen 1 game that I was thinking that he needs to go.

Ok, now first of all I'm very happy that I don't root for a team that might inspire me to choose "BirdWatch1" as my screen name but aside from that I like this post. It's like this is the exact opposite of what someone would say about Anthony Weaver. The Anthony Weaver version of this post goes something like

Ditch him, this cat has coasted on other players coat tails year after year and is not a contributor. I don't think I've ever seen a game that I was thinking that we sure need to keep Anthony Weaver

AnthonyE
02-26-2009, 09:54 AM
From that thread you posted



Ok, now first of all I'm very happy that I don't root for a team that might inspire me to choose "BirdWatch1" as my screen name but aside from that I like this post. It's like this is the exact opposite of what someone would say about Anthony Weaver. The Anthony Weaver version of this post goes something like

:goodpost:

Especially the "BullWatch1" screen name.

disaacks3
02-26-2009, 09:56 AM
First things first; I think everybody needs to get over the pipedream of signing somebody like Peppers to be the complimentary DE to Mario. That's the key here, whomever we sign isn't going to, or expected to, put up huge sack numbers (nor will they have ever put up big sack numbers, because a) teams don't let those guys go and b) they're too damn costly). He needs to be better then average against the run and have the ability to disrupt the pocket; making Mario's job easier.

Mario is our primary sack artist, what we need is a complimentary player not another star. What?? I want TWO star DE's if I can get them! I want to hear them meet in the middle w/ a little crunch sound where the opposing QB is.

GP
02-26-2009, 10:01 AM
First things first; I think everybody needs to get over the pipedream of signing somebody like Peppers to be the complimentary DE to Mario. That's the key here, whomever we sign isn't going to, or expected to, put up huge sack numbers (nor will they have ever put up big sack numbers, because a) teams don't let those guys go and b) they're too damn costly). He needs to be better then average against the run and have the ability to disrupt the pocket; making Mario's job easier.

Mario is our primary sack artist, what we need is a complimentary player not another star.

Great post.

This is the year it has to come together. If our dline is disappointing and does not make a jump up, there will be a lot of angry Texans fans.

We have three 1st round draft picks on the dline, and 2 of those 3 are borderline busts so far. I know that a change in dline coaching and dcoord can make a difference. Let's just say "It HAS to."

If it doesn't make a difference, what do you do? How does it get fixed? And does Mario become an Andre Johnson on defense: A guy who deserved to play on a better defense and is stuck on a mediocre team.

I don't want to sound terribly fatalistic. But at some point, you do want to know whetehr "the plan" is worth the investment. And this will be a huge year for Kubiak. But I think Rick Smith is safe no matter what. He has done more than Casserly did, IMO, in terms of helping Kubiak get the players Kubiak wants but without those "WHAT?!?!" types of personnel moves that we had with Casserly.

b0ng
02-26-2009, 10:13 AM
First things first; I think everybody needs to get over the pipedream of signing somebody like Peppers to be the complimentary DE to Mario. That's the key here, whomever we sign isn't going to, or expected to, put up huge sack numbers (nor will they have ever put up big sack numbers, because a) teams don't let those guys go and b) they're too damn costly). He needs to be better then average against the run and have the ability to disrupt the pocket; making Mario's job easier.

Mario is our primary sack artist, what we need is a complimentary player not another star.

This forum is for wild speculation and blind player evaluations only. Take your "logic" and get out of here!

Mailman
02-26-2009, 10:17 AM
In the last 4 years this guy has a total of 14.5 sacks. If you do the numbers that averages out to < 4 sacks per season. Very mediocre at best.

Mediocre? Compared to what we had, that's exceptional! His 3.6 sack average is two more than Weaver's sack total over three seasons. Heh, I'll take it.

ChampionTexan
02-26-2009, 10:18 AM
This forum is for wild speculation and blind player evaluations only. Take your "logic" and get out of here!

In all fairness, I have yet to see a single blind player evaluated on this thread.

HJam72
02-26-2009, 10:26 AM
In all fairness, I have yet to see a single blind player evaluated on this thread.

They don't represent themselves here, because they rarely watch football. I don't understand why.

Ole Miss Texan
02-26-2009, 10:41 AM
Blind receivers are the hardest to evaluate. Their other senses are much more keen so they 'hear footsteps' and freak out.

Back to the topic though, Antonio Smith was the one that sacked Matt Ryan for a Safety in the Wild Card game this year.

I think this could be a great signing. I see the connection with Bush and the Cardinals run a 4-3 defense. Whether Smith fits better as a 4-3 or 3-4 end is beyond me because I havn't watched him nearly enough. He seems to be a pretty darn good 4-3 end though. This would fill a need and really open up the draft for us.

With Dunta coming back and re-signing Eugene Wilson, we've really avoided opening the team up for needing new replacements.

Porky
02-26-2009, 10:43 AM
As a short aside about Antonio Smith.

He's the sort of high character team player that the Texan's love. I got to interview during the Superbowl this year.

When asked about what is important to him, his reply "Not a lot of guys will talk about this, but my faith in Jesus is number one. I don't care what the media says, I'm going to talk about it."

Legit. Plus I have a great photo of him doing his right arm pose.

-wi

Amen brother. Hope we sign him.

Second Honeymoon
02-26-2009, 10:54 AM
Well, there it is folks. If SH is bitching about a potential signing.....then it must be a good one. :)

yeah because that Greenwood, Weaver, and Todd Wade signing all turned out so well for us (all signings that I panned from Day One)

dalemurphy
02-26-2009, 11:03 AM
yeah because that Greenwood, Weaver, and Todd Wade signing all turned out so well for us (all signings that I panned from Day One)

Well, SH, if you attack every signing and decision a team makes, then you'll certainly be right sometimes. I'm just glad your batting average has been on a steady fall since 2006.

Goldensilence
02-26-2009, 11:12 AM
Would be more interested in his teammate Betrand Berry.

TEXANS84
02-26-2009, 11:23 AM
Read this from McClain's chat transcript, question asked previously about Antonio Smith

11:43 [Comment From #1 Texans Fan]
Hey John, it looks like Antoine Smith will be hitting the market, any chance of the Texan's being interested in going after him? Also, who do they have in mind to replace Sage?
11:45 John McClain: Do you mean Arizona DE Antonio Smith? He's a 280-pounder who plays over the tight end. Do you know any teams that need a player like that in free agency? Well, many do, and I'm sure the Texans are one of them. It'll be very interesting. I spoke with a Cardinals insider. He said they want him back, but to re-sign him will cost more than Darnell Dockett wants. Dockett is trying to renegotiate a contract with three years remaining. They have to let Smith go.

LINK (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/02/chat_about_rosenfels_the_combi.html)

mussop
02-26-2009, 11:25 AM
I agree with this. Kubiak does listen to his coaches and I'm sure Bush put in a word for him.

Also, maybe the Texans see some talent in the later rounds like 2 or 3 for DEs and really like a DB or LB.
After watching Prime Time U, I really liked Emmanuel Cook. I also like the show, it really showed you how you can't go with combine #s too much. Cook was running 4.4 and 4.3 while preparing and then ran a 4.6 at the combine.

Cook was one of my early favorites. He has been compared to Bob Sanders because of his physical style. Problem is he has had some pretty serious of field problems that will probably knock him off the Texans board. If his head is on right he could be a third or fourth round steal.

Mailman
02-26-2009, 11:48 AM
Smith gets a big shout out in this Fox Sports article:


Defensive End

The Big Money Guy — Antonio Smith: In a relatively weak free agent year for defensive ends, the five-year veteran may be the big prize. Who is Antonio Smith? Good question. Smith has had back-to-back solid seasons at DE for the Cardinals and compiled eight tackles and two sacks during Arizona's Super Bowl run. He's been on the verge for some time now, and likely will get some cash based on his potential.

The Bargain Bin — Michael Montgomery: When Cullen Jenkins went down and Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila was released, the Packers turned to Montgomery and he showed flashes. In '08, his first season getting significant playing time, Montgomery recorded career highs in tackles (59) and sacks (2.5) last season. A bit of an unknown, he could find a roster spot elsewhere and do some damage.

The Wild Card — Kevin Carter: Defensive linemen aren't supposed to last 15 years in the league, but Carter's doing just that. Though he was written off as done a few times earlier in his career already, the old man continues to deliver when called upon. Carter's a rock of consistency. In 14 years in the league, he's never missed a game. In '08, he contributed for Tampa with 49 tackles and 4 sacks. He's got some gas in the tank left for a team that'll pay for the old engine.

Other intriguing names: Chris Canty, Chauncey Davis, Igor Olshansky

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9264988/Big-ticket,-bargain-&-wild-card-free-agents?MSNHPHMA

Texecutioner
02-26-2009, 11:49 AM
I'd rather go after a bad ass rookie DE than get an average DE in free agency. That was the Weaver approach that we already tried. THe Texans need to either make this a dominant D line by any means necessary or help out their secondary somehow, because if we were to sign this guy for a good amount of money I wouldn't want to do it at all. If he wants to come here for cheap and we're still going after a DE with our first pick then fine. I'm okay with that. If he could beat out a first round rookie DE then that would be fine as well. But we need to find a dominant pass rusher period. No projects, no long shots, someone that is going to get to the QB and help the team get critical stops.

El Tejano
02-26-2009, 11:51 AM
Cook was one of my early favorites. He has been compared to Bob Sanders because of his physical style. Problem is he has had some pretty serious of field problems that will probably knock him off the Texans board. If his head is on right he could be a third or fourth round steal.

Cook is still one of my favorite players in this draft and we got to at least take a chance on him. The fact that he went to the Prime U makes me feel that he is taking necessary steps to make it in the NFL. Watching the show gave some insight that the players are being taught about the game outside the lines too and hopefully that rubs off on him.

Thorn
02-26-2009, 11:59 AM
Something tells me Antonio Smith is just another Weaver. He will probably perform better than Weaver, but still not be worth the price.

Errant Hothy
02-26-2009, 11:59 AM
I'd rather go after a bad ass rookie DE than get an average DE in free agency. That was the Weaver approach that we already tried. THe Texans need to either make this a dominant D line by any means necessary or help out their secondary somehow, because if we were to sign this guy for a good amount of money I wouldn't want to do it at all. If he wants to come here for cheap and we're still going after a DE with our first pick then fine. I'm okay with that. If he could beat out a first round rookie DE then that would be fine as well. But we need to find a dominant pass rusher period. No projects, no long shots, someone that is going to get to the QB and help the team get critical stops.

You mind telling me who this might be? A 1st round draft pick is just as likely to be a bust as a FA signing.

1st round picks tend to get handed starting jobs, they usually do not compete for them (even on the best of teams).

In case you have yet to notice, the Texans have a dominate pass rusher. He wears # 90 and goes by the name Mario Williams.

Polo
02-26-2009, 12:02 PM
I don't see why signing this guys means we still won't take a DE in the second or third...

You still need a guy that can start if a starter goes down, and you still need a DE that can provide consistent pressure on pass rushes...

I could very easily see a OLB in the first round and a DE in the second.

dtran04
02-26-2009, 12:07 PM
You mind telling me who this might be? A 1st round draft pick is just as likely to be a bust as a FA signing.

1st round picks tend to get handed starting jobs, they usually do not compete for them (even on the best of teams).

In case you have yet to notice, the Texans have a dominate pass rusher. He wears # 90 and goes by the name Mario Williams.

Agreed. Just look at last year's crop. Chris Long, Derrick Harvey, Quentin Groves, etc. didn't light the league up. Maybe they will in the future but Kubiak doesn't have that luxury this year.

Polo
02-26-2009, 12:14 PM
Agreed. Just look at last year's crop. Chris Long, Derrick Harvey, Quentin Groves, etc. didn't light the league up. Maybe they will in the future but Kubiak doesn't have that luxury this year.

I think that Kubiak and Smith may be thinking about that as well...

Not too many 1st yr. DE's come in and make impacts as starters...Even with as much talent as Mario had there were times when he just looked flat out goofy his first year...

I'm not sure Kubes and Co. want to hitch their wagon to a rookie DE or a rookie Safety. I think as a whole rookie LB's ten to come in and find their niche a little quicker.

Specnatz
02-26-2009, 12:22 PM
Read this from McClain's chat transcript, question asked previously about Antonio Smith



LINK (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/02/chat_about_rosenfels_the_combi.html)

Great insight there John, thanks for the heads up.

You mind telling me who this might be? A 1st round draft pick is just as likely to be a bust as a FA signing.

1st round picks tend to get handed starting jobs, they usually do not compete for them (even on the best of teams).

We have a dominate pass rusher, he wears # 90 and goes by the name Mario Williams.

Like Vernon Gholston?

I can honestly say I have only watched a few games of the Cardinals and none where I watched him specifically to say if he takes plays off or does the old Dick Smith approach of dropping the DE back into coverage all the time. Just looking at his stats and knowing how bad the Cards D has been in the past can not tell the whole story. I saw the Cowgirl vs Cards game and he looked pretty disruptive.

Texecutioner
02-26-2009, 12:29 PM
You mind telling me who this might be? A 1st round draft pick is just as likely to be a bust as a FA signing.

1st round picks tend to get handed starting jobs, they usually do not compete for them (even on the best of teams).

In case you have yet to notice, the Texans have a dominate pass rusher. He wears # 90 and goes by the name Mario Williams.

So according to you, having to dominant pass rushers is a bad thing? Since we have Mario we should no longer care about the other side? Did you not pay attention to how the Giants won the SB? Have you not paid attention to how poorly our secondary has been every season because we have never had a consistent pass rush? Even with Mario and how great he is, our over all pass rush was still very poor.

And yeah DE is our biggest need, so I want to find a stud in the first round. All of a sudden because their is talk about the Texans wanting some average guy on the Cardinals you think a DE in the first round is not a good idea? I don't follow that logic for one second.

Defenses are built in the trenches and you speculating that we'll get a bust is your own speculation and so is your assertion that they will automatically start just because their a first round pick. And even if they did start, that doesn't mean that they're not the best guy at the position to start.

Errant Hothy
02-26-2009, 12:40 PM
So according to you, having to dominant pass rushers is a bad thing? Since we have Mario we should no longer care about the other side? Did you not pay attention to how the Giants won the SB? Have you not paid attention to how poorly our secondary has been every season because we have never had a consistent pass rush? Even with Mario and how great he is, our over all pass rush was still very poor.

And yeah DE is our biggest need, so I want to find a stud in the first round. All of a sudden because their is talk about the Texans wanting some average guy on the Cardinals you think a DE in the first round is not a good idea? I don't follow that logic for one second.

Defenses are built in the trenches and you speculating that we'll get a bust is your own speculation and so is your assertion that they will automatically start just because their a first round pick. And even if they did start, that doesn't mean that they're not the best guy at the position to start.

As is yours that we will get a "badass".

It is not speculation that a 1st rounder will automatically start. It happens nearly 32 times every year. It's due to the simple fact that the economics of the NFL dictate that it happens this way. Name me a Texans 1st round pick who wasn't starting by week 8 of his rookie year.

As for drafting a DE in the first, at 15 and in this draft class good luck.

El Tejano
02-26-2009, 12:44 PM
Something tells me Antonio Smith is just another Weaver. He will probably perform better than Weaver, but still not be worth the price.
So you're saying he's another Tim Bulman?

TheRealJoker
02-26-2009, 12:47 PM
Antonio Smith seems like a high motor DE with a good work ethic. This is just the type of player Coach Kollar wants. Pair him with Mario (and hopefully an improved Okoye) and he picks up where he left off in the playoffs.

In addition to a veteran presence on the DL he'll also bring the stories of this past season's SB run. He's been to the dance and I assume he wants to go back pretty badly and knows what he has to do to put him in the best position to get back. I'm pretty sure the rest of the guys on our defense Mario and DeMeco included would like to pick his brain a bit.

Facing 1 on 1 matchups and provided he doesn't have a dropoff in play after the big payday i'd imagine Smith is an 8-10 sack guy and ready to start from day 1. Does he have as high of a ceiling as whoever MIGHT be available at 15? Probably not, but is there any rookie DE you can realistically expect that kind of production from in his rookie year?

Also, you get Smith then teams have to guess what you're gonna do at 15. Maybe you're not gonna go DE # 1? Maybe they should trade up with you to get that prized player you may be targeting instead?

Get Antonio Smith, we dont have to worry about a rookie learning curve and we can upgrade the back 7 (which realistically we've been ignoring since the franchise's inception with high round picks).

Texecutioner
02-26-2009, 12:55 PM
As is yours that we will get a "badass".

It is not speculation that a 1st rounder will automatically start. It happens nearly 32 times every year. It's due to the simple fact that the economics of the NFL dictate that it happens this way. Name me a Texans 1st round pick who wasn't starting by week 8 of his rookie year.

As for drafting a DE in the first, at 15 and in this draft class good luck.

So because you speculate that there won't be one good one at 15, the Texans should just IGNORE their biggest need on defense? They should just forget all about it and assume that all the 1st round talent at DE won't be productive at all? Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense. We started Okoye at DT which to me is usually a tougher transitional position from college to the pros and Okoye has a very nice rookie season and was better than anyone else we had at the position that season. The fact is that most rookies on the D line aren't going to be studs their first season any way, because they are rookies, but by drafting one in the first round you're not drafting him for one season of production you're drafting him for plenty of years in the future. The Texans D isn't going to be all of a sudden be built in one season any way, but getting a top talent in one at our biggest need and one of the most important positions on any defense is what needs to happen.

If we were to follow your logic, Mario Williams could be in this draft right now, and you would be saying that he wouldn't be a smart pick even then. You would rather pass on him simply because you don't think any rookie DE's can be any good and you'd rather us sign just some average guy on another team that hasn't been dominant at his position one season of the NFL. I'll go with the top talent coming into the NFL at our biggest need any day of the week and set up our D line for the future.

b0ng
02-26-2009, 12:57 PM
Why do so many people think a rookie DE is going to be a bad ass pass rusher?

Texan in Japan
02-26-2009, 01:01 PM
I watched the Cards a few times this year and Smith always seemed to be around the ball or causing problems. I wouldn't compare him to Anthony Weaver, because Antonio was much more disruptive. He did this by penetrating the OL and that seems to be a philosophy our new DC and DL coach want to employ.

Personally, I like the idea of AS opposite Mario. He'd give us a young, balanced DE w/ Superbowl experience. His sack production may also increase when he's playing w/ Mario and an improved Amobi.

I hope we're fiscally prudent w/ our offer. Bottomline is I think he offers a more Texan-like FA acquistion then Peppers.

Texan in Camp Slayer/Baghdad

bckey
02-26-2009, 01:01 PM
Something tells me Antonio Smith is just another Weaver. He will probably perform better than Weaver, but still not be worth the price.

I hear whay your sayin Thorn. But Smith had more sacks in the playoff run than Weaver did in his entire Texan career. It just doesn't take much to be better than Weaver.

Specnatz
02-26-2009, 01:02 PM
Why do so many people think a rookie DE is going to be a bad ass pass rusher?

They have been hitting the bong? :thisbig:

Texecutioner
02-26-2009, 01:03 PM
Why do so many people think a rookie DE is going to be a bad ass pass rusher?

Let's see maybe because Mario Williams became one. Julius Peppers did and so have a ton of others.

I could turn around and ask that question of any player at any position if you want to play it that way? WHy draft an O lineman, he won't be able to block as a rookie right? I think that Brown and Clady proved that to be incorrect? Why draft a CB? I think that Dunta proved that a rookie CB could play great in his first season? There could be very productive players at any position in the NFL as rookies, but chances are there will be a learning curve for any rookie. You're not drafting any rookie to dominate in his first season, you're drafting them for the long term.

Errant Hothy
02-26-2009, 01:07 PM
So because you speculate that there won't be one good one at 15, the Texans should just IGNORE their biggest need on defense? They should just forget all about it and assume that all the 1st round talent at DE won't be productive at all? Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense. We started Okoye at DT which to me is usually a tougher transitional position from college to the pros and Okoye has a very nice rookie season and was better than anyone else we had at the position that season. The fact is that most rookies on the D line aren't going to be studs their first season any way, because they are rookies, but by drafting one in the first round you're not drafting him for one season of production you're drafting him for plenty of years in the future. The Texans D isn't going to be all of a sudden be built in one season any way, but getting a top talent in one at our biggest need and one of the most important positions on any defense is what needs to happen.

If we were to follow your logic, Mario Williams could be in this draft right now, and you would be saying that he wouldn't be a smart pick even then. You would rather pass on him simply because you don't think any rookie DE's can be any good and you'd rather us sign just some average guy on another team that hasn't been dominant at his position one season of the NFL. I'll go with the top talent coming into the NFL at our biggest need any day of the week and set up our D line for the future.

That's not what I'm saying at all. Mario Williams went #1 in a pretty loaded draft, and if he was in this draft he would go #1 again. There are no defensive players in this draft that were thought of as highly as Mario Williams, and certainly none of the DEs are even close.

At 15 the choices at DE are going to be rather poor. Atleast 2 will be gone by then, and the drop off from the highest rated DE (Orakpo) to the rest is tremendous, or they are better suited to playing other positions in relation to our D (ie 3-4 rush OLBs).

Just because you don't draft a DE in round 1 means you ignore the position. See your Giants reference from earlier. Osi and Tuck were both 2nd rounders, Strahan a third.

You think Smith is average, which you are entitled to do so, I see him as being a step up from Weaver.

What you are suggesting to do is akin to what the Jags did last year, reach to fill a position that you ignored in free agency.

Polo
02-26-2009, 01:20 PM
Let's see maybe because Mario Williams became one. Julius Peppers did and so have a ton of others.

I could turn around and ask that question of any player at any position if you want to play it that way? WHy draft an O lineman, he won't be able to block as a rookie right? I think that Brown and Clady proved that to be incorrect? Why draft a CB? I think that Dunta proved that a rookie CB could play great in his first season? There could be very productive players at any position in the NFL as rookies, but chances are there will be a learning curve for any rookie. You're not drafting any rookie to dominate in his first season, you're drafting them for the long term.

Lets not be ridiculous....

We know that some positions tend take longer to get acclimated to vs others.

ie. the contrast between a rookie QB and a rookie RB

Of course their will be exceptions, but generally speaking A rookie RB will have more success right off the bat vs. a rookie QB.

And Dunta did play great, but he came in second for rookie of the year award to Vilma...a LB...

Look at this list and tell me what stands out:

2008 Jerod Mayo New England Patriots Linebacker
2007 Patrick Willis San Francisco 49ers Linebacker
2006 DeMeco Ryans Houston Texans Linebacker
2005 Shawne Merriman San Diego Chargers Linebacker
2004 Jonathan Vilma New York Jets Linebacker
2003 Terrell Suggs Baltimore Ravens Linebacker
2002 Julius Peppers Carolina Panthers Defensive End
2001 Kendrell Bell Pittsburgh Steelers Linebacker
2000 Brian Urlacher Chicago Bears Linebacker
1999 Jevon Kearse Tennessee Titans Defensive End
1998 Charles Woodson Oakland Raiders Cornerback
1997 Peter Boulware Baltimore Ravens Linebacker
1996 Simeon Rice Arizona Cardinals Defensive End
1995 Hugh Douglas New York Jets Defensive End
1994 Tim Bowens Miami Dolphins Defensive Tackle
1993 Dana Stubblefield San Francisco 49ers Defensive Tackle
1992 Dale Carter Kansas City Chiefs Cornerback
1991 Mike Croel Denver Broncos Linebacker
1990 Mark Carrier Chicago Bears Safety
1989 Derrick Thomas Kansas City Chiefs Linebacker
1988 Eric McMillan New York Jets Safety
1987 Shane Conlan Buffalo Bills Linebacker
1986 Leslie O'Neal San Diego Chargers Defensive End
1985 Duane Bickett Indianapolis Colts Linebacker
1984 Bill Maas Kansas City Chiefs Defensive Tackle
1983 Vernon Maxwell Baltimore Colts Linebacker
1982 Chip Banks Cleveland Browns Linebacker
1981 Lawrence Taylor New York Giants Linebacker
1980 Buddy Curry Atlanta Falcons Linebacker
Al Richardson Atlanta Falcons Linebacker
1979 Jim Haslett Buffalo Bills Linebacker
1978 Al Baker Detroit Lions Defensive End
1977 A.J. Duhe Miami Dolphins Defensive End
1976 Mike Haynes New England Patriots Cornerback
1975 Robert Brazile Houston Oilers Linebacker
1974 Jack Lambert Pittsburgh SteelersLinebacker


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/history/awards/apdroy

I don't know about you, but it looks like to me that if you want a defensive player that makes a big impact in their first year, best bet is to go LB ?

If there were a bunch of rookie DE's that had stormed the leauge I would think that they would have showed up for DROY a few more times....And if you look at the DE's that DID win it they tended to be highly touted players wheras the LB's were a lot of the times taken about where we'll be picking...

b0ng
02-26-2009, 01:22 PM
Let's see maybe because Mario Williams became one. Julius Peppers did and so have a ton of others.

.

If you're talking "need pass rush now" then I don't think a rookie is the way to to. Hedge your bets and get a FA that might fit your system and draft the DE you want IF HE'S THERE. If he's not there take a guy you need and look to the next round for your pass rusher.

Also, Mario sucked his rookie year (injury or not). Peppers and Kearse are the only two guys I can think of that have been drafted recently and put up large amounts of sacks their rookie years.

So yeah, since I'm talking about pass rushers specifically, why do people think a 1st round rookie pass rusher is going to be a bad ass, or even have a negligable impact?

Big Poundcake
02-26-2009, 01:35 PM
Smith would be a UPGRADE over Weaver and would give the Texans a chance to draft a highly rated OLB or DT.

HOU-TEX
02-26-2009, 01:41 PM
IMO, there aren't any true 4-3 DE's in this draft worthy of a 1st round pick. Orakpo maybe, but he'll likely go to a 3-4 team way before the 15th. A 2nd or 3rd rounder would be a likely scenerio for us taking a DE.

Smith appears to be an upgrade over what we had as long as the money is less than what we paid Weaver. The 2nd or 3rd round DE would spot play for Smith if he proves well in camp. Plus, we'll still have Bulman and Cochran in the rotation

Specnatz
02-26-2009, 02:00 PM
IMO, there aren't any true 4-3 DE's in this draft worthy of a 1st round pick. Orakpo maybe, but he'll likely go to a 3-4 team way before the 15th. A 2nd or 3rd rounder would be a likely scenerio for us taking a DE.

Smith appears to be an upgrade over what we had as long as the money is less than what we paid Weaver. The 2nd or 3rd round DE would spot play for Smith if he proves well in camp. Plus, we'll still have Bulman and Cochran in the rotation

OK I thought it was just me when I keep looking for that true 4-3 DE and I do not see one in the first round.

Polo
02-26-2009, 02:00 PM
OK I thought it was just me when I keep looking for that true 4-3 DE and I do not see one in the first round.

Seems like the Texans have figured that out too...

If they were ever planning on going that route to begin with...

HOU-TEX
02-26-2009, 02:06 PM
OK I thought it was just me when I keep looking for that true 4-3 DE and I do not see one in the first round.

Yeah, I think Ayers, Kruger and Johnson are a few true 4-3 DE's, but I don't think they're worth a 1st. Although, since 4-3 DE's are scarce this year, maybe a team pulls one into the 1st round. Who knows? I just hope it ain't us. :)

Texecutioner
02-26-2009, 02:09 PM
Lets not be ridiculous....

We know that some positions tend take longer to get acclimated to vs others.

ie. the contrast between a rookie QB and a rookie RB

Of course their will be exceptions, but generally speaking A rookie RB will have more success right off the bat vs. a rookie QB.

And Dunta did play great, but he came in second for rookie of the year award to Vilma...a LB...

Look at this list and tell me what stands out:

2008 Jerod Mayo New England Patriots Linebacker
2007 Patrick Willis San Francisco 49ers Linebacker
2006 DeMeco Ryans Houston Texans Linebacker
2005 Shawne Merriman San Diego Chargers Linebacker
2004 Jonathan Vilma New York Jets Linebacker
2003 Terrell Suggs Baltimore Ravens Linebacker
2002 Julius Peppers Carolina Panthers Defensive End
2001 Kendrell Bell Pittsburgh Steelers Linebacker
2000 Brian Urlacher Chicago Bears Linebacker
1999 Jevon Kearse Tennessee Titans Defensive End
1998 Charles Woodson Oakland Raiders Cornerback
1997 Peter Boulware Baltimore Ravens Linebacker
1996 Simeon Rice Arizona Cardinals Defensive End
1995 Hugh Douglas New York Jets Defensive End
1994 Tim Bowens Miami Dolphins Defensive Tackle
1993 Dana Stubblefield San Francisco 49ers Defensive Tackle
1992 Dale Carter Kansas City Chiefs Cornerback
1991 Mike Croel Denver Broncos Linebacker
1990 Mark Carrier Chicago Bears Safety
1989 Derrick Thomas Kansas City Chiefs Linebacker
1988 Eric McMillan New York Jets Safety
1987 Shane Conlan Buffalo Bills Linebacker
1986 Leslie O'Neal San Diego Chargers Defensive End
1985 Duane Bickett Indianapolis Colts Linebacker
1984 Bill Maas Kansas City Chiefs Defensive Tackle
1983 Vernon Maxwell Baltimore Colts Linebacker
1982 Chip Banks Cleveland Browns Linebacker
1981 Lawrence Taylor New York Giants Linebacker
1980 Buddy Curry Atlanta Falcons Linebacker
Al Richardson Atlanta Falcons Linebacker
1979 Jim Haslett Buffalo Bills Linebacker
1978 Al Baker Detroit Lions Defensive End
1977 A.J. Duhe Miami Dolphins Defensive End
1976 Mike Haynes New England Patriots Cornerback
1975 Robert Brazile Houston Oilers Linebacker
1974 Jack Lambert Pittsburgh SteelersLinebacker


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/history/awards/apdroy

I don't know about you, but it looks like to me that if you want a defensive player that makes a big impact in their first year, best bet is to go LB ?

If there were a bunch of rookie DE's that had stormed the leauge I would think that they would have showed up for DROY a few more times....And if you look at the DE's that DID win it they tended to be highly touted players wheras the LB's were a lot of the times taken about where we'll be picking...

I have no arguments with you at all regarding the RIGHT LB's in the first round.

My entire position this entire time has been to get the best Defensive player available. Now granted I would rather see the Texans with a bad ass rookie De than this Smith guy. But if there is a much better LB there I'd take him, but I don't think there will be personally. The top two LB's that would be worth it to me would be Maleuga and Curry, but they will both be gone by the time that we pick for sure. To many other teams before us need defense just about as bad as we do. I don't think Cushing would be worth picking that early myself.

To me this isn't that great of a draft period on defense on paper at least. It might end up being a really deep draft, but right now it seems that to many guys decided to stay for another year. There aren't going to be any DB's worth taking with that first pick in my opinion especially after we franchised Dunta.

Now let's say that we did grab this Smith guy right, well if we were able to get Kruger from Utah in the 2nd round then I'd be happy with that for sure. That just seems like an unlikely scenario.

If Brown/Orakpo.Maybin are available by the 15th pick, unless Curry or Maleuga are available I think any one of those DE's would be the best defensive player available. Just my $.02

Second Honeymoon
02-26-2009, 02:10 PM
Well, SH, if you attack every signing and decision a team makes, then you'll certainly be right sometimes. I'm just glad your batting average has been on a steady fall since 2006.

whatever dude. just go re-inflate your David Carr blowup doll and get back to what you do best

as for me 'attacking every signing', that is just ludicrous but what can I expect...some people just don't like people that actually have an opinion and arent some homering automoton like some of the 'fans' around here.

I have been wrong before, I thought Ahman Green could help us and I was wrong. I thought Danny Clark was going to stick around. I was wrong about both, so please don't come at me with the 'i hate everything' line of BS because I ain't buying.

Antonio Smith is a decent signing and is probably an upgrade over Weaver but I wouldn't call it a move that is going to put us over the top...and there are moves like that to be made...you just have to have the sack and the wherewithal to do so.

as for taking shots at me, whenever the trolls take shots at me, I wear them as badges of honor as it just shows that I don't agree with average homering Houstonian sports fan...and that is a good thing. some of the most uneducated, unobjective, and clueless sports fans reside in our great city of Houston....I won't lose sleep if a good amount of them don't agree with me...what the hell do they know?

Tailgate
02-26-2009, 02:14 PM
OK I thought it was just me when I keep looking for that true 4-3 DE and I do not see one in the first round.

Make that 3 of us. Smith would be a great first domino in shoring up our front 7. However much the coaches like Adibi and Diles, there are still question marks with their durability and potential. After checking DE off the list if the Smith signing went down....we could then go after the best linebacker available with pick 1. Check those 2 off the list and we could be much more flexible with picks 2 and 3. Trade back a bit to land Matthews or whomever and we could even think about taking a RB earlier than most would expect us to.

Could be a very exciting off season for us.... let the games begin!

HOU-TEX
02-26-2009, 02:16 PM
Make that 3 of us. Smith would be a great first domino in shoring up our front 7. However much the coaches like Adibi and Diles, there are still question marks with their durability and potential. After checking DE off the list if the Smith signing went down....we could then go after the best linebacker available with pick 1. Check those 2 off the list and we could be much more flexible with picks 2 and 3. Trade back a bit to land Matthews or whomever and we could even think about taking a RB earlier than most would expect us to.

Could be a very exciting off season for us.... let the games begin!

9 hours and 50 minutes. :whip:

Ole Miss Texan
02-26-2009, 02:19 PM
I don't know if Ayers has moved his draft stock up to mid-1st yet but he might. I'd be happy with a trade down and take him in the late 1st.

If a guy like Smith is signed, I would target another position in the 1st round. I'd still go for a pass rush specialist somewhere in the draft, just not the 1st round.

threetoedpete
02-26-2009, 02:28 PM
I don't know if Ayers has moved his draft stock up to mid-1st yet but he might. I'd be happy with a trade down and take him in the late 1st.

If a guy like Smith is signed, I would target another position in the 1st round. I'd still go for a pass rush specialist somewhere in the draft, just not the 1st round.

Mayock has him at twelve now. Mayock should revise his list in the next few days.

If Brown/Orakpo.Maybin are available by the 15th pick, unless Curry or Maleuga are available I think any one of those DE's would be the best defensive player available. Just my $.02

I believe you can pretty much scratch off Maybin at the fifteen for the Texans. From what I saw he is a first step pass rush specialist only for our team. I think it's highly unlikely he'll convert to the outside backer for us.

Specnatz
02-26-2009, 02:37 PM
whatever dude. just go re-inflate your David Carr blowup doll and get back to what you do best


Can't have a thread without the old SH blast on YKW. OK mods you can close and lock the thread now it has run its course.

threetoedpete
02-26-2009, 02:38 PM
Make that 3 of us. Smith would be a great first domino in shoring up our front 7. However much the coaches like Adibi and Diles, there are still question marks with their durability and potential. After checking DE off the list if the Smith signing went down....we could then go after the best linebacker available with pick 1. Check those 2 off the list and we could be much more flexible with picks 2 and 3. Trade back a bit to land Matthews or whomever and we could even think about taking a RB earlier than most would expect us to.

Could be a very exciting off season for us.... let the games begin!

So if I'm reading your post correctly....you'd take the best LB available at the fifteen or move back and take Mathews ? If they move back I think it brings a lot of guys into the picture don't you ? All I know about it is Miami could certainly use a backer....I wouldn't move back too far if Mathews is your target.

Goatcheese
02-26-2009, 02:45 PM
I like Smith as a player, but not for the ammount he's about to ask for. He is a pretty good pass rusher, but does a better job getting pressure than actually comming up with the sack. I think he's more of a disruptive force, than a guy who will put up good stats.

Specnatz
02-26-2009, 02:46 PM
I like Smith as a player, but not for the ammount he's about to ask for. He is a pretty good pass rusher, but does a better job getting pressure than actually comming up with the sack. I think he's more of a disruptive force, than a guy who will put up good stats.

What amount is that? :thinking:

leebigeztx
02-26-2009, 02:47 PM
I like Canty moore becase he has good 1st step quiicknes and is stout vs the run,then on ppasing owns he can gett pressure from the dt position and they could bring in bulman or another speed rusher. he reminds me of leon lett.

HOU-TEX
02-26-2009, 02:48 PM
I like Canty moore becase he has good 1st step quiicknes and is stout vs the run,then on ppasing owns he can gett pressure from the dt position and they could bring in bulman or another speed rusher. he reminds me of leon lett.

I wouldn't ***** about getting Canty either. Let's get both!! :splits:

dalemurphy
02-26-2009, 02:52 PM
Please!? Tender the Butler and David Anderson!!

Errant Hothy
02-26-2009, 02:56 PM
Canty to me is only a 3-4 end, and with the number of teams making the switch I bet he signs for about the same as Smith.

Between the 2, I'd rather have Smith.

leebigeztx
02-26-2009, 03:07 PM
I wouldn't ***** about getting Canty either. Let's get both!! :splits:

The grea thing about canty is he's great with his hands and very versitile. He can play le and play 5,7, or 9 technique. He can play inside and play the 3 technique. He can play le and the texans could draft brown or the cincy de/te and create a 3-4 pressure scheme or stay in the 4-3 and run the zone blitz joker packages. That would be nice. Bush will run a lot o 5 man pressures.

Goatcheese
02-26-2009, 03:09 PM
What amount is that? :thinking:

No way to say for certain. Everything I've read says he's about to sign a 'big' contract. 'Big' to me is alot more than the ~3 million a year he deserves.

If he wasn't asking for alot then I think he would be back with Arizona, which he said he wants to be.

leebigeztx
02-26-2009, 03:13 PM
Canty to me is only a 3-4 end, and with the number of teams making the switch I bet he signs for about the same as Smith.

Between the 2, I'd rather have Smith.

I disagree about being a 3-4 only. I think his burst and quickness would fit as a le or down in at tackle. That's not to say he won't rejoin Parcels in miami, but I think es a kevin carter type.

Tailgate
02-26-2009, 04:19 PM
So if I'm reading your post correctly....you'd take the best LB available at the fifteen or move back and take Mathews ? If they move back I think it brings a lot of guys into the picture don't you ? All I know about it is Miami could certainly use a backer....I wouldn't move back too far if Mathews is your target.

Was just using Matthews as an example. LB is one of the deepest posishes in the draft imo.

RipTraxx
02-26-2009, 04:51 PM
Was just using Matthews as an example. LB is one of the deepest posishes in the draft imo.

I'd much rather see Cushing and a lot of mocks have him available.

mussop
02-26-2009, 04:59 PM
So yeah, since I'm talking about pass rushers specifically, why do people think a 1st round rookie pass rusher is going to be a bad ass, or even have a negligable impact?

For the same reason they think 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders will have an impact.

Thorn
02-26-2009, 05:01 PM
So you're saying he's another Tim Bulman?


Just saying he probably won't be worth what we'd have to pay him to come here and play. But to be honest about it, so are a lot of players taken in the first round.

Txn_in_Oki
02-26-2009, 05:08 PM
Was just using Matthews as an example. LB is one of the deepest posishes in the draft imo.

You type like I talk when I've had a bit too many.

Second Honeymoon
02-26-2009, 05:22 PM
I'd much rather see Cushing and a lot of mocks have him available.

He is a nice fit and a great athlete. He could be a guy that could come in and help next year. We need immediate help and they just need to find someone who can come in and start from Day One...if that guy is Cushing or Brown or Jenkins(at FS) then that is fine.

The real question is what if Andre Smith drops in our lap at #15. Adding that prospect to our OL might just be too tempting to pass.

LZ on his Draft Show just said Charles Davis of NFLN just projected Mark Sanchez to be drafted by the Texans at #15. I don't know about all of that.

Mailman
02-26-2009, 05:25 PM
LZ on his Draft Show just said Charles Davis of NFLN just projected Mark Sanchez to be drafted by the Texans at #15. I don't know about all of that.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59093

wags
02-26-2009, 06:02 PM
Antonio Smith, 6-3, 272; 4.98; 27; Drew Rosenhaus

Sweet, Bob Sugar is his agent!!! :gun:

Texecutioner
02-26-2009, 06:11 PM
Sweet, Bob Sugar is his agent!!! :gun:

Bob Sugar. Nice! :spit:

ArlingtonTexan
02-26-2009, 06:14 PM
Sweet, Bob Sugar is his agent!!! :gun:

everything I understand from backroom rumor stuff, is that while flashy, Rosenhaus is not Scott Borras behind the scenes and is pretty reasonable to deal with overall.

DocBar
02-26-2009, 08:19 PM
IMO, this all comes down to money and flexability. Can we sign him cheap enough and is there the talent at another position in rnds 1-2 to make this a worthwhile signing. Kubes and RS are doing a much better job than we're used to. Best case, we sign him for reasonable $$ and get a top notch CB, FS or RB, etc. Worst case, FB, a Kubes guy, gets HIS guy for high $$, the guy's a bust, Kubes and Co. get fired, we have MORE dead money on a FA and we continue the building phase of this expansion team. Look at the upside: we WANT the former and are used to the latter. Win-Win situation. I like leaps of logic. They're great exercise.
:jogger::spit:

DocBar
02-26-2009, 08:21 PM
Bob Sugar. SWEET!!!! :spit: I thought that was a better fit.
:cowboy1:

Lucky
02-26-2009, 08:33 PM
Look at this list and tell me what stands out:


I don't know about you, but it looks like to me that if you want a defensive player that makes a big impact in their first year, best bet is to go LB ?

Take another look at the list. Only one of the DROY award winners you listed played OLB in a 4-3 defense (Peter Boulware in '97). Boulware was a blitzer who collected 11.5 sacks. Unless you're suggesting the Texans move DeMeco outside, the Texans would be drafting a 4-3 OLB.

Now, I'm not suggesting that drafting a OLB is out of the question. Just that your argument using past DROY winners doesn't hold water. Clearly, the skill that would benefit the Texans the most is pass rushing. Whether that pass rusher comes from the DE, DT, or OLB position doesn't really matter. And, signing a LDE like Antonio Smith shouldn't preclude the Texans from selecting one of these DE/OLB hybrids who seem to be pervasive in this draft.

wags
02-26-2009, 08:49 PM
Best case, we sign him for reasonable $$ and get a top notch CB, FS or RB, etc.


Ok, so let's have some numbers thrown out from some people. What do we think is reasonable money for Smith??

Just for reference last year Antwan Odom got 5 years $30 million and Justin Smith got 6 years $45 million.

Jackie Chiles
02-26-2009, 08:53 PM
Ok, so let's have some numbers thrown out from some people. What do we think is reasonable money for Smith??

Just for reference last year Antwan Odom got 5 years $30 million and Justin Smith got 6 years $45 million.

Put me down for Justin Smith money. There are no other DEs on the market with nearly as much skill and youth.

DocBar
02-26-2009, 09:11 PM
Ok, so let's have some numbers thrown out from some people. What do we think is reasonable money for Smith??

Just for reference last year Antwan Odom got 5 years $30 million and Justin Smith got 6 years $45 million. To be honest, I have no idea. That's why RS gets the $$ he gets. I think ANY person playing a kids game for millions a year while cops, firefighters and the like work for less than six figures is ridiculous. All in all, I would be more concerned with the gauranteed money more than the announced value of the contract. A 5 yr. 30 mil contract with 5 mil gauranteed is a lot more palatable than one with 15 mil gauranteed. All I ask is that it not break the bank and/or saddle us with unreasonable dead cap money. Reasonable/unreasonable is subjective. If the FO thinks this guy can be our answer to a bookend passrusher to Mario, I can live with that. I like it even more if it gives us the flexability to draft high for another need position. A DE in the hand and a CB in the bush is better than a BE AND CB in the bush kind of thinking. I like the idea of getting the BPA at a couple of positions in the draft rather than getting the BPA at one position.If I keep on, I'll be from the department of redundancy department.

steelbtexan
02-26-2009, 10:31 PM
The Texans will sign 5 or 6 guys that will add up to one impact FA (B. Scott, Peppers, Fat Albert) money wise.

My philosopy is to add the one impact FA & draft around him.

That's not the Smithiak -McNair philosophy & I can either accept that or root for another team.

Unfortunately I have invested both financially & emotionally in this team.

This doesn't mean I'm right, time will tell.

Maddict5
02-27-2009, 05:59 AM
what was weavers contract again??

26 mill, 11m garunteed seems to be in my head

Mike Kerns
02-27-2009, 06:47 AM
what was weavers contract again??

26 mill, 11m garunteed seems to be in my head

That sounds about right. Because they kept saying it on the radio after we drafted Mario and everyone was freaking about it.

ArlingtonTexan
02-27-2009, 06:55 AM
Here is a list of the teams after Smith.

profootballtalk.com

ANTONIO SMITH GETTING INTEREST
Posted by Mike Florio on February 27, 2009, 5:13 a.m.
Several teams have begun to chase one of the members of the Cardinals’ starting defense who hit the market little more than five hours ago.

Per a league source, the Buccaneers, Giants, Eagles, Texans, and Falcons have invited defensive end Antonio Smith for a visit.

Smith is in the process of coming up with a priority list of the teams, and then will finalizing arrangements for visits.

Not on the list yet are the Chiefs, where Smith’s former defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast is a member of the coaching staff.

GP
02-27-2009, 08:42 AM
I'd much rather see Cushing and a lot of mocks have him available.

I'd like that selection, as well.

Probably time to add a stand-out LB.

SecondHoneymoon says there's a projection of Sanchez (QB) at No. 15 to the Texans. That would blow everybody's minds. Completely.

Txn_in_Oki
02-27-2009, 08:48 AM
I'd like that selection, as well.

Probably time to add a stand-out LB.

SecondHoneymoon says there's a projection of Sanchez (QB) at No. 15 to the Texans. That would blow everybody's minds. Completely.

I haven't really paid attention to him other than when watsisname at USC got all pissy when he said he was coming out. I know it would be a shocker especially with the needs on defense.

Goatcheese
02-27-2009, 08:58 AM
I'd like that selection, as well.

Probably time to add a stand-out LB.

SecondHoneymoon says there's a projection of Sanchez (QB) at No. 15 to the Texans. That would blow everybody's minds. Completely.

On the ESPN Freeagency special last night Mayock had Houston taking Sanchez. One more reason to never listen to the guy. :gun:

HOU-TEX
02-27-2009, 09:01 AM
On the ESPN Freeagency special last night Mayock had Houston taking Sanchez. One more reason to never listen to the guy. :gun:

Mayock isn't espn he's NFLN. You must be talking about somebody else. Mayock's my boy, he better not have us taking him.

Mailman
02-27-2009, 09:08 AM
You guys might check the NFL draft forum periodically. We've discussed that mock draft projection (from Charles Davis) since it was published.

4Texans
02-27-2009, 09:29 AM
I'd like that selection, as well.

Probably time to add a stand-out LB.

SecondHoneymoon says there's a projection of Sanchez (QB) at No. 15 to the Texans. That would blow everybody's minds. Completely.

I believe it was Charlie Davis that has the Texans taking Sanchez at 15. That's just nuts! We do not need to take a QB at 15, and expecially Sanchez.

Goatcheese
02-27-2009, 10:19 AM
Mayock isn't espn he's NFLN. You must be talking about somebody else. Mayock's my boy, he better not have us taking him.

You guys might check the NFL draft forum periodically. We've discussed that mock draft projection (from Charles Davis) since it was published.

*I meant Tard McShame

It was on the ticker. They were doing a side by side Kipers/McShay mock, and he had us taking Sanchez.

BigBull17
02-27-2009, 11:31 AM
*I meant Tard McShame

It was on the ticker. They were doing a side by side Kipers/McShay mock, and he had us taking Sanchez.

Is that the one where he and Kiper were fighting over Stafford being a franchise QB and whether he should be 1st overall or not? That was almost funny.

Mailman
02-27-2009, 11:33 AM
Is that the one where he and Kiper were fighting over Stafford being a franchise QB and whether he should be 1st overall or not? That was almost funny.

And so damn contrived by BSPN.

ArlingtonTexan
02-27-2009, 11:46 AM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/02/sources-the-latest-nfl-scoop/

Arizona Cardinals defensive end Antonio Smith is expected to visit both the New York Giants and Houston Texans.

TEXANS84
02-27-2009, 02:08 PM
Smith, 27, will meet with the Texans on Saturday at Reliant Stadium. He's being pursued by the New York Giants and Tampa Bay, among other teams.

Smith, who played at Oklahoma State, started at left defensive end for the Cardinals. The Texans have a vacancy at that position after releasing Anthony Weaver this week.

link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6284444.html)

Ole Miss Texan
02-27-2009, 02:19 PM
Git'er done Rick Smith. "Overpaying" may almost be worthwhile if it would alleviate the need of a DE. I would be happy with a DE rotation of Mario, Smith, Cochran, Bulman and a rookie pass rush specialist.

I'd hate to reach on a pass rusher in the 1st round b/c it's a need and avoid a better player at another position.

rarazz00
02-27-2009, 02:28 PM
My question is how was he when Frank Bush was there in Arizona?:d:

rarazz00
02-27-2009, 02:31 PM
I believe it was Charlie Davis that has the Texans taking Sanchez at 15. That's just nuts! We do not need to take a QB at 15, and expecially Sanchez.

Todd McShay of ESPN has us grabbin" Sanchez:wild:

Pantherstang84
02-27-2009, 02:32 PM
Git'er done Rick Smith. "Overpaying" may almost be worthwhile if it would alleviate the need of a DE. I would be happy with a DE rotation of Mario, Smith, Cochran, Bulman and a rookie pass rush specialist.

I'd hate to reach on a pass rusher in the 1st round b/c it's a need and avoid a better player at another position.

The smartest post I've read about FA/Draft all week. Rep your way.

dtran04
02-27-2009, 02:34 PM
If they do sign him, I'm expecting all of the "overpaid" threads to pop up. The top free agents each year are ALWAYS overpaid. Get ready for it so you won't be outraged when it happens.

4Texans
02-27-2009, 02:37 PM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/02/sources-the-latest-nfl-scoop/

Arizona Cardinals defensive end Antonio Smith is expected to visit both the New York Giants and Houston Texans.

I at least hope they don't let Palmer and Carr talk to him during his visit to the Giants.

4Texans
02-27-2009, 02:40 PM
If they do sign him, I'm expecting all of the "overpaid" threads to pop up. The top free agents each year are ALWAYS overpaid. Get ready for it so you won't be outraged when it happens.

Yeah! As teams are laying off 30% of their front office staffs, and the commish is taking a voluntary 20% pay cut, the NFL is raising the salary cap and signing FA's to record contracts. Go figure......

Polo
02-27-2009, 02:50 PM
I at least hope they don't let Palmer and Carr talk to him during his visit to the Giants.

I hope they do...

RipTraxx
02-27-2009, 02:55 PM
If they do sign him, I'm expecting all of the "overpaid" threads to pop up. The top free agents each year are ALWAYS overpaid. Get ready for it so you won't be outraged when it happens.

I'll be the first to admit that i FLIPPED OUT when we signed Reeves last year. Even tho he turned out to be one of our more productive corners.

Marcus
02-27-2009, 03:16 PM
I at least hope they don't let Palmer and Carr talk to him during his visit to the Giants.

I hope they do...

So do I, man . . so . . do . . I.

And I guarantee I will be the first one out of the block with an 'overpaid' thread if he does sign here.

When will they ever learn.:brickwall:

Goatcheese
02-27-2009, 03:20 PM
If they do sign him, I'm expecting all of the "overpaid" threads to pop up. The top free agents each year are ALWAYS overpaid. Get ready for it so you won't be outraged when it happens.

I would be happy to overpay for a top free agent. Smith isn't. He's an ok pass rusher(career high 5.5 sacks), who isn't as good against the run as his size would suggest.

ChampionTexan
02-27-2009, 03:22 PM
So do I, man . . so . . do . . I.

And I guarantee I will be the first one out of the block with an 'overpaid' thread if he does sign here.

When will they ever learn.:brickwall:

Too late - from page 2 of this thread...

why overpay for top guys that can actually make plays when you can overpay for 2nd and 3rd tier guys that can't do squat.

this is just another second rate free agent signing. you would think they would learn from past mistakes both pre and post Kubiak, but it sure seems like they are more than happy to overpay for someone else's garbage.

until they start going after the top free agents that can actually improve the team, i am not sure about this current regime. i will give them credit for going after someone without Denver ties but this smells Weaver-ish to me.

Remember all the things that they said about Weaver....deja-vu anyone?

Fox
02-27-2009, 03:25 PM
Judging by the other teams targeting him (Giants, TB, Philly) I'd say he must be pretty legit if defenses like those think he can help them. There's no such thing as not overpaying this early in the FA period, as long as we don't hand out truly ridiculous cash I'll be alright with it.

On the other hand, what I'd really like to see happen is for us to move Mario to LE, and get a RE with an elite first step via the draft.

dalemurphy
02-27-2009, 03:27 PM
Judging by the other teams targeting him (Giants, TB, Philly) I'd say he must be pretty talented if defenses like those think he can help them. There's no such thing as not overpaying this early in the FA period, as long as we don't hand out truly ridiculous cash I'll be alright with it.

On the other hand, what I'd really like to see happen is for us to move Mario to LE, and get a RE with an elite first step via the draft.

What's most likely is to have Mario as RDE on many of the run downs with someone like Smith at LDE on the run downs, and then bringing in a speed rusher on passing downs to play (usually the RDE) with Mario sliding to the Left or standing over the center or lined up as a DT.

dtran04
02-27-2009, 03:33 PM
The fact that he is coming here first means the Texans probably have offerred the most money. Or, he is just using them to leverage his contract with the Giants. I'm thinking it's the first.

The Pencil Neck
02-27-2009, 03:33 PM
What's most likely is to have Mario as RDE on many of the run downs with someone like Smith at LDE on the run downs, and then bringing in a speed rusher on passing downs to play (usually the RDE) with Mario sliding to the Left or standing over the center or lined up as a DT.

Smith was also used inside on passing downs at times and he was supposed to be pretty good at that. From what I read.

Fox
02-27-2009, 03:35 PM
What's most likely is to have Mario as RDE on many of the run downs with someone like Smith at LDE on the run downs, and then bringing in a speed rusher on passing downs to play (usually the RDE) with Mario sliding to the Left or standing over the center or lined up as a DT.

I'm still happy with that, but ideally I'd like to have an Orakpo/Maybin/Brown lining up at RE, with Mario at LE on a more permanent basis. I think Mario's strength/size combo would work best at LE, and the thought of a legit pass rusher at RE to pair with him makes me salivate.

Ole Miss Texan
02-27-2009, 03:36 PM
Smith was also used inside on passing downs at times and he was supposed to be pretty good at that. From what I read.

I think I read that from Lance? If that's the case, I'd imagine it would be Mario--Smith--Amobi--Pass Rusher (rookie or Bulman?)

That would be pretty sweet.

The Pencil Neck
02-27-2009, 03:39 PM
I think I read that from Lance? If that's the case, I'd imagine it would be Mario--Smith--Amobi--Pass Rusher (rookie or Bulman?)

That would be pretty sweet.

Yep. I think you're right about me reading that from LZ. And that was my point. If we draft a speed rusher, on passing downs we get the lineup you've got there. And that could be a good thing.

Jackie Chiles
02-27-2009, 07:47 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6284444.html

"Arizona defensive end Antonio Smith, who is coveted by a lot of teams, came to Houston on Friday night and will meet with the Texans today. Smith is a candidate to replace Anthony Weaver, who started the last three years before being released this week."

Sounds to me like Rick Smith convinced him to go ahead and get here today instead of waiting till Saturday or Sunday. The FO looks serious about signing him, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a Texan by tonight or tomorrow.

Old School
02-27-2009, 07:54 PM
The fact that he is coming here first means the Texans probably have offerred the most money. Or, he is just using them to leverage his contract with the Giants. I'm thinking it's the first.
Or it means that we are closer to Arizona than New York is.:)

ArlingtonTexan
02-27-2009, 08:03 PM
The fact that he is coming here first means the Texans probably have offerred the most money. Or, he is just using them to leverage his contract with the Giants. I'm thinking it's the first.

I don't feel like finding the links but the giants have meetings set-up with at least two other DLmen and already have pretty good players there. The Texans have a clean 3 down opportunity in terms of playing time, so the need is greater.

IMO, if the money is right, Smith signs within the next 24 hours.

dalemurphy
02-27-2009, 08:04 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6284444.html

"Arizona defensive end Antonio Smith, who is coveted by a lot of teams, came to Houston on Friday night and will meet with the Texans today. Smith is a candidate to replace Anthony Weaver, who started the last three years before being released this week."

Sounds to me like Rick Smith convinced him to go ahead and get here today instead of waiting till Saturday or Sunday. The FO looks serious about signing him, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a Texan by tonight or tomorrow.

McClain's article is written for tomorrow's paper. Smith got here tonight but will be meeting with them tomorrow.

euro-Texan
02-27-2009, 08:04 PM
Or it means that we are closer to Arizona than New York is.:)

Come on old school, why did you have to turn this into a geography leasson.

Jackie Chiles
02-27-2009, 08:07 PM
McClain's article is written for tomorrow's paper. Smith got here tonight but will be meeting with them tomorrow.

I forget sometimes how many people still read the actual newspaper instead of getting the info immediately online. Ah, the information age.

euro-Texan
02-27-2009, 08:36 PM
I forget sometimes how many people still read the actual newspaper instead of getting the info immediately online. Ah, the information age.

Are you reading this post in print?

4Texans
02-27-2009, 08:38 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6284444.html

"Arizona defensive end Antonio Smith, who is coveted by a lot of teams, came to Houston on Friday night and will meet with the Texans today. Smith is a candidate to replace Anthony Weaver, who started the last three years before being released this week."

Sounds to me like Rick Smith convinced him to go ahead and get here today instead of waiting till Saturday or Sunday. The FO looks serious about signing him, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a Texan by tonight or tomorrow.

Maybe they'll bring Smith over to the Rodeo BBQ and show him a real Texas party.:toast2:

Texans34Life
02-27-2009, 10:41 PM
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/090227_smith_arrives_houston

"I think their style of defense suits me," Smith said in an interview with FOX 26 Sports. "I've always liked the Texans because they are close to home. I'm just excited to see the team, meet some of the players, talk to the coaches and see if it's a perfect fit.

"(I'm) excited," Smith said who is from Oklahoma. "The pressure time is over. The Super Bowl was the pressure time. Right now I'm just enjoying myself and blessed to have this opportunity."

Smith said he can bring the Texans the total package.

"What could I bring the Texans?," asked Smith. "A great player. I could bring them a strong, aggressive, mean, skillful, God-fearing player."

Smith said if he signed with the Texans he would look forward to playing alongside Pro Bowl defensive end Mario Williams

"Once I heard the Houston Texans were interested I smiled at that opportunity," Smith said. I watched him develop and I watched him grow.

"It would be great to play beside somebody liked that. Have somebody out there who can get to the quarterback just as good as you can."

Smith said he didn't want to identify the other clubs who are expressing interest and didn't rule out the possibility of resigning with Arizona.

"I don't know yet," Smith said. "It's very possible. It's all business I would say. I think it's possible."

Big Poundcake
02-27-2009, 10:44 PM
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/090227_smith_arrives_houston

"I think their style of defense suits me," Smith said in an interview with FOX 26 Sports. "I've always liked the Texans because they are close to home. I'm just excited to see the team, meet some of the players, talk to the coaches and see if it's a perfect fit.

"(I'm) excited," Smith said who is from Oklahoma. "The pressure time is over. The Super Bowl was the pressure time. Right now I'm just enjoying myself and blessed to have this opportunity."

Smith said he can bring the Texans the total package.

"What could I bring the Texans?," asked Smith. "A great player. I could bring them a strong, aggressive, mean, skillful, God-fearing player."

Smith said if he signed with the Texans he would look forward to playing alongside Pro Bowl defensive end Mario Williams

"Once I heard the Houston Texans were interested I smiled at that opportunity," Smith said. I watched him develop and I watched him grow.

"It would be great to play beside somebody liked that. Have somebody out there who can get to the quarterback just as good as you can."

Smith said he didn't want to identify the other clubs who are expressing interest and didn't rule out the possibility of resigning with Arizona.

"I don't know yet," Smith said. "It's very possible. It's all business I would say. I think it's possible."
Sounds good. Sign him up.

J-Russ
02-27-2009, 11:39 PM
Smith said if he signed with the Texans he would look forward to playing alongside Pro Bowl defensive end Mario Williams

"It would be great to play beside somebody liked that. Have somebody out there who can get to the quarterback just as good as you can.""

As good as he can?

Now I'm no math expert but when does accumulating 14.5 sacks in your five year career the same as someone who almost tallied the same amount in just his second year?

TEXANS84
02-28-2009, 01:10 AM
god fearing? Sign him up.

Polo
02-28-2009, 01:14 AM
god fearing? Sign him up.

I know right...

Being scared of Gibbs already should give him a nice head start.

The Pencil Neck
02-28-2009, 02:30 PM
Signed per nfln!