View Full Version : OT...some hope?
01-14-2005, 03:05 AM
This may have already been posted, but i dont know....
The Texans and Dolphins are in the market for offensive tackles. If the Rams' Orlando Pace or the Seahawks' Walter Jones becomes available, both are cornerstone players who could intrigue Houston. The Dolphins will monitor Jones' situation and also could be enticed by Brad Hopkins, who might be released by the Titans. ...
I dont see us signing either of those guys. Neither are spring chickens, and neither of them will make a big enough difference for the paycheck they would want. We probably already have the tools we need on the line (though a center may be in order).. the problem is just getting them to mesh and work as a team.
01-14-2005, 07:57 AM
Future, please provide a link when using copywrited material...in the future.
Link to Texan Tackle rumors (http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3310950)
Pace & Jones would certainly want to be paid. Maybe more than the Texans could afford. But wouldn't make a big difference? With Walter Jones you'd go from the tackle who allowed the most QB sacks (12.5) to the the tackle who allowed the least (Zero.Zero). I think that would be considered a big difference.
Honoring Earl 34
01-14-2005, 10:12 AM
:jumpbanan Carr is passing a coffee can around as we speak to help raise money for the cause.If your concerned its the save the QB foundation it can be mailed to Walter Jones directly.
01-14-2005, 10:21 AM
I never believe anything from The Sporting News Personally. They're slightly better than the Star or the National Enquirer. My opinion, of course.
01-14-2005, 10:48 AM
LT is the least of our worries IMO and to put out what will be HUGE bucks for guys that are nearing the end of carreers is not something I see the Texans doing. Wand will be "OK" with a another off season and a year of experience. Will he ever be as good as those guys.....probably not, but I believe he will be a fairly good NFL tackle. Whoever the morron is that left a first year LT alone on Freeny should be shot. Everyone doesn't need to be a hall of fame talent to make a good player and we can't afford that level anyway. Center in particular, and to a bit less degree RG, are the most pressing needs in the O-line.
01-14-2005, 11:25 AM
You also have to remember, that Jones has held out of the preseason ever since his rookie contract so that has to add some years to his career. Also, since he will be going to camp he may be better, if that is posible.
01-14-2005, 11:28 AM
I understand that Orlando Pace didn't have as good of a year as expected. Looking at the 8-8 record of the Rams (just one better than "The Team"), that's no surprise to me. But I doubt that he would be worth the money he'd want anyway, especially if he's on the downswing.
01-14-2005, 11:31 AM
Whoever the morron is that left a first year LT alone on Freeny should be shot.
:hmmm: Would that be the guy who wants to talk with another team but for some reason Capers doesn't want to let that genius go?
01-14-2005, 11:56 AM
I really don't think an offense can be consistent until it has a good or great LT. I don't see any candidates for that on our team right now.
01-14-2005, 12:48 PM
Pace is 29 and Jones is 30. Jones played much better this year than Pace. Either would certainly be an immediate upgrade. That said, aside from the issue of any compensation their teams may want to extort through the use of a franchise tag, each is going to want their final huge contract of their career and a 6-7 year deal. Are they still going to be that good/injury free when they are 34-35? The time to consider a huge FA acquisition is after the expiration of their rookie contract, when they are at their peek and still have a lot of gas in the tank, not when they are looking for their last big payday, IMO.
01-14-2005, 10:36 PM
Jones and Pace will want top dollar money, something I'm not sure we would want to give them. I think Pace is overrated, and Jones will be a solid player, but I don't know how much of a need he is.
If we were to sign anyone of those, it would be Brad Hopkins. Maybe the most underrated tackle besides Matt Light in the league. I like Hopkins a lot, a quiet player who gets the job done and will come at a keeper price tag.
I still don't think we should give up on Wand completly. Maybe the thing we do is sign a vertern to be a backup who in case Wand doesn't pan out over the course of the season, he can step in and take his place.
01-14-2005, 11:13 PM
Isn't Hopkins older than both Pace and Jones?
01-14-2005, 11:44 PM
I thought we was around the 29-30 range. Besides who said we had to sign him to a long term deal..........Only Pace and Jones will be lookin for the $$$
01-15-2005, 01:24 AM
giving wand another year to grow in my mind is the easiest plan...but like in most cases the easiest path isn't normally the best way to go...going after walter jones(the best player for the job) and pace is gonna take a load of money that we don't have...one person that no one is talking about is kyle turley who after his fight with martz might be on the trading post...granted if he can pass a physical and can play...he would be a good trade with our extra 3rd round pick...another option is to draft a franchise LT...that way would give us our LT we've been looking for but will take atleast 2 years to cash in on...so take your pick either way i see carr taking another year of poundings unless wand can make some leaps and bounds this offseason
01-15-2005, 01:42 AM
I really don't think Wand is the problem with the OLine. I think once we address and fix the interior of the line that you'll see a brand new player in Wand and Wade. I don't think it will be so much a change in Wade and Wand, but if DC can step up into the pocket he won't be forced back into the DEs as they run downfield. From what I've observed it seems as if most of the sacks credited to Wand and Wade have come when David is forced to scramble due to pressure up the middle.
As far as Turley is concerned you mentioned him having to pass a physical, and I'm sure you said that because of the injury to his back. I'm not sure if he'd be the answer at LT even if he was 100% healthy. He still has the same age concern that you have with Jones or Pace because he'll be 30 in September. Older players tend not to come back from injuries as well as younger players. He's a firey competitor, but his temper has gotten the best of him at times. I really don't think he's worth the risk considering his level of play. Of course that's just my opinion.
01-15-2005, 12:22 PM
I'd have to agree with texasguy that Wand isn't the problem with the O-Line and is painted rather unfairly for a couple of the reasons mentioned. He was credited with 2-3 sacks this season that I can remember when he had the end engaged and under control. However, when Carr was flushed from the pocket he'd scramble past Wand and the end slid off and made the tackle before Wand knew Carr was coming. Other than the "Freeney incident", he usually did pretty well against the best pass rusher for the other team.
Wand should get better next year too. He is not only about the biggest O lineman we have, he is already the fastest. You could see his speed because he was rarely if ever beaten on an outside speed rush. It seems he was always able to push the end up the field away from Carr.
He was also a maniac in the weight room last off season, and I doubt that will change. He is one of the few players that stay in Houston during the off season and takes advantage of the Texans facilities and conditioning coaches. Therefore, he should be stronger. That leaves technique and experience. He's gaining in experience and needs to concentrate on technique.
IMHO, Seth Wand is the solution at left tackle.
01-15-2005, 12:52 PM
I posted parts of this in another place with some fantasy context as it relates to AJ and Carr's development but am bringing it here because it's simply my take on our line (minus the ramifications to our skill guys). I posted the top of this at hpf also in case it looks familiar. I think we have a bigger problem with the inside protection than edge protection to me. When a QB is flushed it is impossible to keep your body between you and the defender. We had some obvious breakdowns on the edge last year but mostly in situations that were unwinnable (who's the Einstein that puts Wand on Freeney one on one?). Freeney is on a hall of fame career path for cripes sakes. The pocket is the safest place for a QB. If you cannot step up you have no pocket.
The Texans young left side that has every physical tool you need to play their positions. They are not getting beat physically on balance. I feel solid about Wand developing at LT (Project prototype-sized player out of a small program with great feet). I’d like to see a mean streak but he is a good second level blocker for a man his size. Chester Pitts dominates people at times in the running game and many bright people I know consider him our best LT, so I can safely pass on that he has the feet to pass protect also. Right now we are looking for a neurosurgeon for his potential brain replacement because he is a penalty machine and really had a tough year with his adjustment to Guard this season. He has never played the position before and it was visible. Mental errors, hear me roar.
I feel we will try to replace current Center McKinney and/or RG Zach Weigert soon. One position may see an immediate new starter and the other will have a young player taken to groom. Todd Wade is good enough at RT to be there for years. Teams use multiple TE's in the red zone and the Texans have the least talent in the league at this position in Miller and Bruenner (not counting the injured Joppru). Miller can't block. He is great in the locker room and is a great blue collar guy but he can't block. It's ugly. Bruenner is on his last leg but is still a viable blocker, although not a threat at all as a receiver. I feel this need will be addressed in the off-season and that Joppru will come in healthy. As a fan base we totally underestimate the impact that a quality TE has on an offense. We have tried using Billy Miller in this offense in the past and frankly, we are an ugly unit when he is in the game (on balance) because he is just another slow WR when he is in the game and he needs help as a blocker (TE's are supposed to BE the help!!).
01-15-2005, 12:55 PM
you mentioned the interior o-lineman...and i know mckinney has taken a lot of blame which is deserved in some cases...if i was to guess at what mckinney's problem is i would have to say he struggles against stronger dt's...and he plays high...spencer the center for ole miss is said to be an absolute monster in the weight room...he is only center in the upcoming draft i see being able to replace him...and even that won't happen this upcoming year...as for the guards pitts and weigert...pitts is a solid player...he tends to jump offsides still but if you look at the end of the season the vast majority of our rushing td's came behind him...weigert on the otherhand is constantly hurt and to me seems to be just plan slow...maybe we should be looking to upgrade the RG position before we look to either the center or the LT position
01-15-2005, 12:57 PM
I can't argue that Seth Wand has the physical potential to become a top LT in the NFL. If you look back on their combine obstacle course results and measurements, Wand compares to '04 #2 pick Robert Gallery. Unquestionably, Wand is the best athlete currently among the Texans O-linemen.
But, I don't think there's anything unfair about characterizing Wand as one of the worst pass blocking LTs in the league. For every sack that his man lucked into, I can name a brutal hit Carr took from Seth's man after releasing the ball. Carr had to leave the Jets game after taking a head shot from Eric Barton after Wand completely whiffed on a block. Sure, Wand can improve with experience and technique. Considering that Wand came from a small college where he likely easily dominated by his physical presence, it's no wonder he's way behind in those areas. But, should Wand be getting that experience at the expense of your $50 million QB?
While Wand did seem to improve as a run blocker over the course of the season, you can't say that that about Seth's pass blocking. And it's not just some fans who question Wand's ability at LT. It was Dom Capers & his staff that pulled Wand off the field against the Bears on sure passing downs. Of course Capers then found out that Marcus Spears wasn't the answer, either. The Texans have already questioned Wand's ability during the '04 season. It's only reasonable to think they'll debate whether he's the answer at LT for the '05 season. Wand may be back at LT on opening day, but it's no slam dunk.
01-15-2005, 11:10 PM
Why couldn't we have left Pitts at LT and train Wand to play LG so that only 1 person was learning from scratch instead of 2. LT is the toughest position to play on the OL and Pitts was really improving and looking to become a good one.
01-16-2005, 02:12 PM
I think Wand needs to work on his feet work a little more this offseason.....thats his only major problem. He can deal with the DE coming off the line, but when the DE turns or spins inside, he goes brain dead. If he can fix that he will be fine.
Somebody mentioned McKinney not being able to block the stronger NTs, when we go up against some of the bigger lines, thats when we have had our worst games. Shuan Rogers destroyed McKinney in Detriot, Gerald Warren had his way as well during the last game of the season.
Weighert I thought has never been the answer, he just brought him here I thought to kind of plug up the bleeding of this OL after the first season. Well he did his job, now its time to get somebody else in to do the job better. Weigert plays to much up high and gets blown off the line when playing the faster DTs.
If we can find a C and especially a RG, I think that is our biggest concern is upgrading the RG position, Then this line I think will be fine. Too many times this season I have seen Carr having to back pedal and scramble because of pressure up the middle and not being able to step up and make the throw.
Honoring Earl 34
01-16-2005, 02:25 PM
What about the penalties.Is it talent,scheme, are we to nice ,are we not the sharpest tools in the shed.
Maybe our center is a guard our left side are projects from small schools.Maybe this is as good as it gets with this group. If the Texans draft an OL person at 13 they agree. :shocked
01-16-2005, 06:56 PM
What about the penalties.
Penalties are annoying and improvement should always be a goal, but the Texans were in the top third of the NFL this year in least offensive penalties--it is all relative.
01-16-2005, 11:06 PM
After the Colts game today.................BACK OFF OF WAND.
I know everybody has been saying how bad of a job that Wand did of Freeney.......but after watching him today up against Matt Light, I don't know if anybody can stop this guy. Light had such a hard time stopping him from coming inside, I thought I was watching Wand out there. I had thought of Light coming into the game as maybe the most underrated LT in the NFL, and Freeney made a laughing stock of him. We are just going to have to deal with Freeney twice a year, I don't care if we have Oblegen back there playing LT, heck I think in that Sunday night game Freeney made him a laughing stock too.
01-17-2005, 01:53 PM
I really liked your assessment of Brad Hopkins. I should mention that Tennessee usually has one of the better ground games in the league, and from what I remember the left side of that line used to be Eddie George's favorite side to run at. Brad Hopkins is getting up there in age but that isn't the reason he will be released. Dude can still play and his contract is really the only thing that is going to keep him out of Tenn. Having Brad Hopkins there makes for two big lineman on the left side and perhaps can allow Pitts to help out Mckinney more. Also Hopkins pass blocking is just as good as his run blocking. I wouldn't mind them getting Hopkins, even if only for a few years.
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