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Ole Miss Texan
02-23-2009, 11:29 PM
Just saw this across the screen during the Combine (Monday Night):

1. Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forrest
2. Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech
3. Jason Smith, T, Baylor
4. Brian Orakpo, LB, Texas
5. Eugene Monroe, T, Virginia
6. Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia
7. Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
8. Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma St.
9. Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
10. Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
11. James Laurinaitis, LB, Ohio St.
12. Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee
13. Andre Smith, T, Alabama
14. B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
15. Aaron Maybin, LB, Penn St.
16. Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio St.
17. Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
18. Brian Cushing, LB, USC
19. Donald Brown, RB, Connecticut
20. Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU

Ole Miss Texan
02-23-2009, 11:29 PM
Go Donald Brown!!

gtexan02
02-23-2009, 11:46 PM
I don't understand the ranking of Pettigrew at number 8. I think he is going to fall on draft day.

He just doesn't seem to have any offensive threat. He ran a very disappointing 40 at the combine, and wasn't a top performer in many other categories. He had a disappointing season last year (no touchdowns), and has a felony arrest charge for assaulting a police officer.

Wheres the upside?

Kaiser Toro
02-24-2009, 12:17 AM
I don't understand the ranking of Pettigrew at number 8. I think he is going to fall on draft day.

He just doesn't seem to have any offensive threat. He ran a very disappointing 40 at the combine, and wasn't a top performer in many other categories. He had a disappointing season last year (no touchdowns), and has a felony arrest charge for assaulting a police officer.

Wheres the upside?

That guy can catch and block, have you watched him play at all on the field? He is a stud in my opinion. I have no idea what he has between the ears, but he gets it done.

eriadoc
02-24-2009, 12:26 AM
I think it's obvious that Crabtree might fall a bit. I'm also a little surprised to see Orakpo listed as a LB.

Spled
02-24-2009, 12:57 AM
Pettigrew wouldn't be bad for The Raiders. He could catch passes for Russell and block for their 3 running backs.

rarazz00
02-24-2009, 01:05 AM
There is gonna be so much posturing and media hype and players falling and rising...I can't wait till after the combine and see where Walter Football ranks these guys. It really seems to me that the best value this year isn't in QB or RB. Yes the RB class is deep, though not alot of burners. I do see alot of RB's to back up Slaton. The wide reciever class is awesome...lots of burners...It is a very good Defensive class this year. Time to put Peyton in his place...face down a$$ up......:whip:

gg no re
02-24-2009, 01:10 AM
Time to put Peyton in his place...face down a$$ up......:whip:Whoa now football is no place for that kind of hanky-panky.... :headhurts:

Kaiser Toro
02-24-2009, 08:46 AM
face down a$$ up......:whip:

Thats the way Carr used to suck.

gtexan02
02-24-2009, 08:51 AM
That guy can catch and block, have you watched him play at all on the field? He is a stud in my opinion. I have no idea what he has between the ears, but he gets it done.

Nope, never watched him personally in a game. So this could all be meaningless. I watched him during the combine and thought he did OK on the position drills but disappointed in the workouts. Comparing his stats to other TEs seems to indicate he isn't nearly the offensive threat that others are. Maybe its his offensive system.

I know he's a better blocker, but I also listened to a few GMs say they prefer TEs who can catch because defenses are so worried about them slipping by, they don't need to be great blockers.

nunusguy
02-24-2009, 10:19 AM
Curry is a great prospect at LB but after that I got serious reservations about Mayocs ranking of the LBs ?
I'm now to the point where I'd take Matthews over Cushing and I dunno if Laurinaitis even gets drafted in the first round ? It wasn't just he had a slow 40, he didn't look at all athletic or agile in the drills, yet Mayoc has him at
#11 ?

TimeKiller
02-24-2009, 10:20 AM
Interesting to see Laurinitis back on the rise. I wonder how much run the Texans are giving him at 15? LB seems to be pushing up the scale of importance as the only true 4-3 DE (MJohnson) has plenty of questions surrounding him. Personally, I'd like to see Matthews in a Texans uni, bring that great tradition back to Houston. He's seemed to play his way up into the bottom of the first so maybe a trade down would be in order...

bah007
02-24-2009, 12:27 PM
I don't get the idea that just because Orakpo can play rush LB in a 34 that he can't be a DE in a 43.

Mayock thinks he can do both but he lists him as a OLB because he thinks that he would be better at it.

As for Mayock's rankings, IIRC he ranks players based on how good he thinks they will eventually be, not on where he thinks they will be drafted.

Ole Miss Texan
02-24-2009, 01:48 PM
Question:I don't get the idea that just because Orakpo can play rush LB in a 34 that he can't be a DE in a 43.

Answer: Mayock thinks he can do both but he lists him as a OLB because he thinks that he would be better at it.

As for Mayock's rankings, IIRC he ranks players based on how good he thinks they will eventually be, not on where he thinks they will be drafted.
That's how rankings (big boards) are supposed to work. Listing them on where they might get drafted is more of a mock than a ranking.

bah007
02-24-2009, 02:47 PM
Question:

Answer:


That's how rankings (big boards) are supposed to work. Listing them on where they might get drafted is more of a mock than a ranking.

You didn't answer my question.

The question was why do some people think he can't be a 43 DE?

Just because he would be better in a 34 doesn't mean that he still isn't the top 43 DE in the draft as well.

I have him listed as the my top 43 DE & my top 34 OLB.

As for rankings, I haven't seen any "experts" besides Mayock that rank them this way. Kiper always lists his big board by the order he thinks guys will go.

Ex: Mayock doesn't believe that Ayers will be a 1st rounder but he lists him high because he thinks that eventually he will be that kind of player. Kiper lists Ayers lower because he is a "2nd round" guy.

Ole Miss Texan
02-24-2009, 03:21 PM
I thought you answered your own question! Mayock thinks he could play both 43 and 34. But he lists him as a LB because he thinks that why he'll get drafted and where he would be best suited.

bah007
02-24-2009, 03:25 PM
I thought you answered your own question! Mayock thinks he could play both 43 and 34. But he lists him as a LB because he thinks that why he'll get drafted and where he would be best suited.

My question isn't why does Mayock list him only as a 34 OLB.

My question is why do some people think that he can't be a 43 DE? I keep seeing posts like MJ is the only 43 DE and stuff like that.

I think it is very likely that Orakpo could get drafted by a 43 team.

My question really has nothing to do with Mayock.

Ole Miss Texan
02-24-2009, 03:29 PM
I like the idea of listing the prospects like how Mayock does. He goes out and says that Robert Ayers, Donald Brown, etc. are better players than those listed below them. It doesn't matter where they end up getting drafted b/c each team and situation is different.

For example (hypothetically): I don't like the idea of saying Beanie Wells is a top 10 player b/c of how the teams/needs/prospects set up. I prefer saying Wells is a late first round kind of RB. Chances are he will get selected much higher, but his value is selecting him in the 20's. Or I might say something like Clay Matthews is one of the top 20 players in this draft. He'll most likely have a long successful year. Chances are, this player will get drafted in the late first round and may slip to the top of the 2nd round... but he's a top 20 player.

Everyone has their own way and sometimes that way is better than the other. I prefer looking at it differently though (easier for me to see who I think were reaches and who were steals). Doesn't mean I'm right though :foottap:

Ole Miss Texan
02-24-2009, 03:36 PM
My question isn't why does Mayock list him only as a 34 OLB.

My question is why do some people think that he can't be a 43 DE? I keep seeing posts like MJ is the only 43 DE and stuff like that.

I think it is very likely that Orakpo could get drafted by a 43 team.

My question really has nothing to do with Mayock.

I hear you. Short answer? Probably b/c most people repeat everything they read on the internet about these prospects without watching them and developing their own opinions. :heh:

76Texan
02-25-2009, 06:07 PM
Olemiss, what do you and the nfl.com guys (and also Casserly!) see in Curry to rate him #1 overall, I'd like to know!

Did Gruden say that his guy is ReyRey (without saying who he rates as number one overall)?

mussop
02-25-2009, 07:16 PM
I hear you. Short answer? Probably b/c most people repeat everything they read on the internet about these prospects without watching them and developing their own opinions. :heh:

Yep I see this alot.

threetoedpete
02-26-2009, 02:50 AM
Olemiss, what do you and the nfl.com guys (and also Casserly!) see in Curry to rate him #1 overall, I'd like to know!

Did Gruden say that his guy is ReyRey (without saying who he rates as number one overall)?

I don't buy the wake forest games, but I watch them every time they are on.

OK, the guy is 252....he can play Mike. He runs a 4.56 he can play Will or the Sam. He is faster than 75% of the defensive backs coming out in this years class. He hits a ton and makes plays behind the LOS. He is clean. There is no bad paper on the guy. So you got a guy who can play any LB postion in any scheme, run with any Rb in the league and most wide outs.

Detroit, if they aren't completely sold on the QB or either of the OLTs would be completely justified drafting the guy #1 over all. That's why he is where he is. Is he bust proof...no. None of them are....But if you've got to pay someone seventy million with thirty million guaranteed....wouldn't you do that to the prospect you believe has the best chance to make an impact immediately and play for you at a high level for ten next years ?

Detroit Lions...one interception and four sacks from their group at Linebacker last year. I'd call that there thingy a major need.

BattleRedToro
02-26-2009, 07:39 AM
I don't buy the wake forest games, but I watch them every time they are on.

OK, the guy is 252....he can play Mike. He runs a 4.56 he can play Will or the Sam. He is faster than 75% of the defensive backs coming out in this years class. He hits a ton and makes plays behind the LOS. He is clean. There is no bad paper on the guy. So you got a guy who can play any LB postion in any scheme, run with any Rb in the league and most wide outs.

Detroit, if they aren't completely sold on the QB or either of the OLTs would be completly justified drafting the guy #1 over all. That's why he is where he is. Is he bust proof...no. None of them are....But if you've got to pay someone seventy million with thirty million guaranteed....wouldn't you do that to the prospect you believe has the best chance to make an impact imediately and play for you at a high level for ten next years ?

Detroit Lions...one interception and four sacks from their group at Linebacker last year. I'd call that there thingy a major need.

Detroit has needs just about everywhere. They have a handful of good players surrounded by a bunch of scrubs. I could certainly see them taking Curry like you suggest. The question then becomes who would they select with the 20th pick?

rarazz00
02-26-2009, 09:32 AM
Nothin' wrong w/ grabbin' Curry at 1...at 20, I would go DT or DE..they can grab a C in the 2nd round.

HOU-TEX
02-26-2009, 10:10 AM
Nothin' wrong w/ grabbin' Curry at 1...at 20, I would go DT or DE..they can grab a C in the 2nd round.

I'd take Curry at #1 for sure. At #20 I'd be looking at OT

Ole Miss Texan
02-26-2009, 10:44 AM
Olemiss, what do you and the nfl.com guys (and also Casserly!) see in Curry to rate him #1 overall, I'd like to know!

Did Gruden say that his guy is ReyRey (without saying who he rates as number one overall)?
please see below:
I don't buy the wake forest games, but I watch them every time they are on.

OK, the guy is 252....he can play Mike. He runs a 4.56 he can play Will or the Sam. He is faster than 75% of the defensive backs coming out in this years class. He hits a ton and makes plays behind the LOS. He is clean. There is no bad paper on the guy. So you got a guy who can play any LB postion in any scheme, run with any Rb in the league and most wide outs.

Detroit, if they aren't completely sold on the QB or either of the OLTs would be completly justified drafting the guy #1 over all. That's why he is where he is. Is he bust proof...no. None of them are....But if you've got to pay someone seventy million with thirty million guaranteed....wouldn't you do that to the prospect you believe has the best chance to make an impact imediately and play for you at a high level for ten next years ?

Detroit Lions...one interception and four sacks from their group at Linebacker last year. I'd call that there thingy a major need.
Great post pete.:)

I've been one to say "you don't take a LB #1 overall". But I guess the truth is, you don't take an inferior player over someone better.

I see Curry as having a very very high floor. He'll come in and be one of the better LBs in the league right away. Can he bust? Absolutely, but he's a safer pick than any other player. That's not the reason you draft him but it is part of the 'formula' in my mind.

Offense: I like J. Smith, M. Oher and E. Monroe as competition for the best player. I like Maclin better than Crabtree, but wouldn't throw him in the mix as one to draft #1 overall.
Defense: I like Curry, Orakpo, Raji and Jenkins as the competition.

I like Curry because he's everything you want in a LB and is really versatile to play in any scheme. Orakpo and Jenkins could be limited to schemes, imo. Could Rak player 43 RDE... probably, could he play 34OLB, yes. I see Curry as 100% great in both schemes. Raji, who I like a whole whole lot, I'm just not sure he's a better player than the others. He could have a bigger impact (which is technically what your really after) but I don't know if he's the best player.

The Quarterbacks, in my opinion, are always rated higher due to the position they play and the impact they have on a game (for better or worse). The arguement can be made for them to be drafted highly, with good reasoning, but I don't see them as being better players at all. Very very high risk. The reward is you get a franchise QB vs. "only" getting a franchise LB.

Ole Miss Texan
02-26-2009, 10:55 AM
I'd take Curry at #1 for sure. At #20 I'd be looking at OT

I don't see them having any problems taking Curry at #1. If I were them, I wouldn't rule out LT through. I don't know what kind of blocking they have, what they want to do, how these LTs might measure up to that but if they think one of them is a really really good fit I wouldn't hesitate taking one.

Jason Smith + Clay Matthew could be better than Aaron Curry + Eben Britton.

I think whoever the pick at #1 it is very very important for them to trade up from #20 to #15 to make their next pick. They need to be willing to give up some picks to secure their next player. The fate of their franchise rests on giving the Texans a good deal. :smiliedance:

threetoedpete
02-26-2009, 12:49 PM
Detroit has needs just about everywhere. They have a handful of good players surrounded by a bunch of scrubs. I could certainly see them taking Curry like you suggest. The question then becomes who would they select with the 20th pick?

Well all of the gurus say the kid from K State , Freeman is next in line. They have beeen moving him up for three months now. If you know you're going to take your lumps anyway ?

I'm thinking that the Buccaneers just cleared the decks for a run at the 2010 class of quarter backs with their recent purge.

Old Miss at the time they did it, I held my water ...but I have always thought that Backus was a right side guy. Detroit almost has their triad complete. Got the stud WR. Got a very good RB...all they need is a QB. So I could see anyone of the three picks. My money Curry starts day one. And barring injury he's there for ten years.

mussop
02-26-2009, 01:19 PM
I don't see them having any problems taking Curry at #1. If I were them, I wouldn't rule out LT through. I don't know what kind of blocking they have, what they want to do, how these LTs might measure up to that but if they think one of them is a really really good fit I wouldn't hesitate taking one.

Jason Smith + Clay Matthew could be better than Aaron Curry + Eben Britton.

I think whoever the pick at #1 it is very very important for them to trade up from #20 to #15 to make their next pick. They need to be willing to give up some picks to secure their next player. The fate of their franchise rests on giving the Texans a good deal. :smiliedance:

You mean something like this (http://www.inthebullseye.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392)?

Jason Smith + Clay Matthew could be better than Aaron Curry + Eben Britton.
IMO youre dead on with this statement.

TexansSeminole
02-26-2009, 01:29 PM
I've been saying that the Lions need to draft Curry since I figured out they would have the #1 pick, which unfortunately for them was pretty early.

If yall remember they took Ernie Sims early first round a couple years ago. Ernie is a WLB with great speed and coverage ability, and is also a good tackler. However they didn't have anyone next to him last year. He was being asked to be the enforcer on many occassions and that is just not what he does. Ernie is a guy that you just let him run. If you give him some freedom back there he can make ALOT of plays. He did it at Florida State playing that WLB position. They just let the guy do his thing and he was everywhere.

Curry could be their enforcer, the guy they need on their defense. I'd plug him in at SLB, and I would upgrade my d-line in the 2nd so Ernie and Aaron have someone to play behind.

Not only is Curry a low risk player that has great work ethic and athletic ability, but he could make other players on that Lions defense better. They've been using Ernie Sims in the wrong way, and I think Curry could help put Ernie back in the position he was meant to play.

Ernie Sims + Aaron Curry is a really scary duo of OLBs to face.

threetoedpete
02-26-2009, 01:44 PM
Nice post 'Nole. A+ analysis. You know if they banged Scott McKillop or Jasper Brinkley with a second day pick, they'd have a superior LB corp.

Spled
02-26-2009, 06:55 PM
Detroit could go pure offense and get Jason Smith and Beanie Wells at 20 to be in the backfield with Kevin Smith.

Ole Miss Texan
02-26-2009, 11:50 PM
Detroit could go pure offense and get Jason Smith and Beanie Wells at 20 to be in the backfield with Kevin Smith.

Or they could just select a higher rated player that's actually at a position of need. :) I'm not a big fan of Wells, but the 20's is where i think he should go.

nunusguy
02-27-2009, 07:01 AM
I'd take Curry at #1 for sure.
Curry may be the best player in the Draft and the one with the least downside, but 4-3 LBs are such a "low value" position comparitively speaking that I'd be very reluctant to take that position with any top 5 (or even top 10) pick, let alone #1 overall.

Ole Miss Texan
02-27-2009, 10:27 AM
Curry may be the best player in the Draft and the one with the least downside, but 4-3 LBs are such a "low value" position comparitively speaking that I'd be very reluctant to take that position with any top 5 (or even top 10) pick, let alone #1 overall.

I would normally agree 100%. But with Curry, I see a guy that will fit in any package the Lions run. He would probably be their SLB in the 4-3 most of the time but when they run nickle packages as well as others, he's a LB that can still stay on the field and not leave. I see him as a LB that will always be on the field so in that sense it boosts his value from the typical OLB.

76Texan
03-05-2009, 03:38 PM
I don't buy the wake forest games, but I watch them every time they are on.

OK, the guy is 252....he can play Mike. He runs a 4.56 he can play Will or the Sam. He is faster than 75% of the defensive backs coming out in this years class. He hits a ton and makes plays behind the LOS. He is clean. There is no bad paper on the guy. So you got a guy who can play any LB postion in any scheme, run with any Rb in the league and most wide outs.

Detroit, if they aren't completely sold on the QB or either of the OLTs would be completely justified drafting the guy #1 over all. That's why he is where he is. Is he bust proof...no. None of them are....But if you've got to pay someone seventy million with thirty million guaranteed....wouldn't you do that to the prospect you believe has the best chance to make an impact immediately and play for you at a high level for ten next years ?

Detroit Lions...one interception and four sacks from their group at Linebacker last year. I'd call that there thingy a major need.
So far, I have seen him in 4 games:

BC, Navy, Fla St, and Vandy.
I still don't see that greatness. Guess I'll have to watch more.

A very good player with all the measurables, yes!

But I've hardly seen him in coverage.
When he was, he was average at best. I can see him get beat by the NFL receivers and TEs.

He got swept off his feet cleanly by a normal size blocking RB (in the triple option), got undercut a few times, got faked off his boots by a couple of RB and a QB not known to be elusive.

Sure, he can be very effective if they funnel the plays toward him.
But I'd like to see a number one overall pick go make the plays more often than what I saw.

Sure, he can improve and has the chance to become a great player.
But that still remains potential.
At the moment, I don't see an immediate impact player quite yet.
(I might change my mind after I review a few more games of his.)