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View Full Version : This draft really sucks at DT


Grid
01-13-2005, 03:37 PM
Looking over the draft boards.. this is really giving me a headache.

Outside of the top guys (Wright, Hawthorne, Ngata) .. everyone who is big enough to be a 3-4 DT seems to have the same description. Great run stuffer, not much of a pass rush, out of shape, underacheiver, doesnt give 100%...

Needless to say that isnt very promising. as things are right now.. I dont see us taking a DT in the draft.. unless its to draft a guy like Sione Pouha out of Utah, or Albert Means out of Memphis.. in the later rounds, just as depth.

I see us instead going for a DE.. and making due with either Smith or Deloach at DT.. or an FA.

Spears and Hawthorne.. both should be available to us and either one of them could be a nice DE for us.

Do yall think Spears will fall to the second with his knee injury? or maybe we should trade down and grab him a little later in the first?

Grid
01-13-2005, 03:38 PM
btw im assuming that Payne either doesnt get resigned.. or is not the same after another knee surgery.. but it is entirely possible he could be back and 100%.. and resigned.

Vinny
01-13-2005, 03:39 PM
If you read some of the old Dom Davis's draft profiles you would see he wasn't going to be drafted because he was so average and limited in some of them (interesting that some of the old profiles are no longer on the web....I'd take some of them down too).

There are guys out there, but I agree, this is a bit of a weak draft.

Blake
01-13-2005, 03:45 PM
This is a seriously big reason the Texans should conisider droping down to get Spears later.

If they do stay, then they need to get good value with the pick.

IE, Adam Jones, Alex Barron, Thomas Davis.

wags
01-13-2005, 03:45 PM
or is not the same after another knee surgery..

I don't think it was knee surgery, pretty sure it was his hammy. I believe he already had the surgery and Dom said it would be six month rehab.

Grid
01-13-2005, 03:46 PM
I hope we find another 4th round diamond in the rough. Speaking of which.. I mentioned Sione Pouha..

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerprofiles/dt/sionepouha.html

does this guy sound like our kinda guy or what? as far as attitude anyway.. and he is big and a run stuffer.. I could see us grabbing him on the second day.

Grid
01-13-2005, 03:49 PM
I would be worried about dropping down and grabbing spears.. the DE pool is better than the DT pool.. but not that much. And as 3-4 guys go.. Spears is the only guy im seeing who has 3-4 DE size... and could even be picked up by a 4-3 team to play either DE or DT. Hawthorne..in alot of the mocks im seeing.. is getting grabbed at #17 by the cowgirls.. so id be really worried about dropping down and someone else grabbing spears before he fell to us. I hear the talk about him dropping to the 2nd with his knee injury.. but I wouldnt say that it is written in stone.

hou059
01-13-2005, 04:05 PM
I hope we find another 4th round diamond in the rough. Speaking of which.. I mentioned Sione Pouha..

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerprofiles/dt/sionepouha.html

does this guy sound like our kinda guy or what? as far as attitude anyway.. and he is big and a run stuffer.. I could see us grabbing him on the second day.

I mentioned him before. I like him alot. I hope he does well in his workouts and combines. He seems like a good guy as well, took some time off to do some missionary work. I think he is our kinda guy.

DoCt3rJ
01-13-2005, 05:41 PM
I agree it is weak at DT, I think its pretty deep at CB this year though. I'd like to see us get a CB 1st-3rd rounds.

ledzeppelin229
01-13-2005, 05:49 PM
I wouldn't count on Spears dropping to the 2nd round. McGahee had a horrific knee injury and he was still picked up 23rd overall, and it's worked out for the Bills. Therefore quite a few teams might jump on him in the 20-32 range.

If we could trade down to 20, pick up a 2nd rounder, and grab Spears, I would call the draft a success. (assuming the other picks aren't all busts)

Huge
01-13-2005, 06:03 PM
Looking over the draft boards.. this is really giving me a headache.

Outside of the top guys (Wright, Hawthorne, Ngata) .. everyone who is big enough to be a 3-4 DT seems to have the same description. Great run stuffer, not much of a pass rush, out of shape, underacheiver, doesnt give 100%...

Needless to say that isnt very promising. as things are right now.. I dont see us taking a DT in the draft.. unless its to draft a guy like Sione Pouha out of Utah, or Albert Means out of Memphis.. in the later rounds, just as depth.

I see us instead going for a DE.. and making due with either Smith or Deloach at DT.. or an FA.

Spears and Hawthorne.. both should be available to us and either one of them could be a nice DE for us.

Do yall think Spears will fall to the second with his knee injury? or maybe we should trade down and grab him a little later in the first?
By "Wright" do you mean Rod Wright of Texas? He hasn't announced he's leaving and nobody at the school really expects him to.

ArlingtonTexan
01-13-2005, 06:29 PM
The job of the scouting department is to indentify talent that is not obvious to us or the internet draftsperts, so while I get that there are not a lot of DTs, I am only really concerned about the Texans getting one or two that can play for us.

As i remember, the year we got DomDavis was concerned below average for RBs, but we got a player.

Grid
01-13-2005, 06:30 PM
yah i meant wright from texas.. Ngata hasnt declared and nobody expect him to either.. they are the two best 3-4 DTs.. and neither will be in the draft most likely.

Grid
01-13-2005, 06:35 PM
I dont doubt that if there is a good DT out there.. our front office can find them.. what concerns me is the lack of depth, which does two things.

1. it ruins our fun since there is no semi-obvious choice :) its not like it was with Andre Johnson, or even Dunta Robinson.. there is no one on the Dline to really choose from as a sure thing.

2. it will make it harder to get that special player that is floating under the radar.. since alot more people are going to be looking for him. We may find ourself in the situation we were in with Babin.. a small school guy that would have most likely been available in the late 2nd or 3rd if the draft had been deeper at that position.. instead we had to trade up to the first to get him. basicly.. it increases the value of guys that are more of a risk.. and since we need to draft a player at that position(DT).. it means we are going to have to take a risk and use a higher draft pick on them. Which is why I think there is a good chance we may not go for a DT, and instead focus on getting us a DE.. since there are at least a couple guys in the draft which would be considered immediate impact players at that position.

ArlingtonTexan
01-13-2005, 08:05 PM
Remember the guys that play DT in college play NT and DE will a few exceptions. An under the radar DLman to watch for is Chris Canty. He is around 6'6" 290-295ish who was rated as 2nd rounder before and injury this fall. He has experience playing DE in 3-4 at Virginia on the hand full of schools that run the defense.

Yeah, i don't mean to ruin your fun :dancing:

THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
01-13-2005, 10:09 PM
Somebody mentioned McGahee, McGahee was a Top 5 choice, probably a Texan at #3 before his knee injury..............Spears is not a top 5 choice. I think Spears will be a late 1st rounder, as in the 27-32 range. We may have to do the same thing we did last year, trade all of our other 1st day picks for Spears. Unlikely, but if thats what it takes to get him.......

As for DT, Ngata sounds like an interesting prospect and so does Pouha, but what about that kid for Alabama of yall been talking about? If we take a DT it will be on the 2nd day..........

SESupergenius
01-14-2005, 10:05 AM
I don't think Ngata has delcared yet so he may not be in the cards this year.

infantrycak
01-14-2005, 10:59 AM
I don't think it was knee surgery, pretty sure it was his hammy. I believe he already had the surgery and Dom said it would be six month rehab.

It was a hammy surgery--it has already been completed--and it is the same one Gary Walker had during the off-season before his pro-bowl 2002 season. At NT I'd bet on Payne with someone drafted to develop.

beerlover
01-14-2005, 11:11 AM
It was a hammy surgery--it has already been completed--and it is the same one Gary Walker had during the off-season before his pro-bowl 2002 season. At NT I'd bet on Payne with someone drafted to develop.

this is good news infantry & I agree with your opinion the Texans need to draft his future replacement :thumbup

Errant Hothy
01-14-2005, 11:25 AM
Albert Menas was mentioned earlier and I think he might be some good depth at NT and may have the talent to become a solid starter. He came to the Shrine game, measuring 6' 3.5" and 321 lbs (which will help to quite soem of the concerns that he may have problems controlling his weight). He's definitly big enough to play NT, seems to have good quickness and plays the run better than most. The concerns are that he sin't in teh shape he needs to be, and add that to his size, he dosn't have great stamina. The more troubling is that he has the handle of an underachiever.

Just someone to keep an eye out on at the combine.

ArlingtonTexan
01-14-2005, 01:21 PM
Albert Menas was mentioned earlier and I think he might be some good depth at NT and may have the talent to become a solid starter. He came to the Shrine game, measuring 6' 3.5" and 321 lbs (which will help to quite soem of the concerns that he may have problems controlling his weight). He's definitly big enough to play NT, seems to have good quickness and plays the run better than most. The concerns are that he sin't in teh shape he needs to be, and add that to his size, he dosn't have great stamina. The more troubling is that he has the handle of an underachiever.

Just someone to keep an eye out on at the combine.

I watched him in the bowl game and he was blocked by the Bowling Green center one on one most of the game. I as not impressed with him in that game. He did not clug anything nor command the attention of multiple linemen. Does he have size and potential yes, but he has not done anything special as football player, no

Errant Hothy
01-14-2005, 01:48 PM
I watched him in the bowl game and he was blocked by the Bowling Green center one on one most of the game. I as not impressed with him in that game. He did not clug anything nor command the attention of multiple linemen. Does he have size and potential yes, but he has not done anything special as football player, no

Change the name of the opposing team, and I can say the same about nearly all the DT in this year's draft.

Mean's is on of the few with the size and potential who may becoming something. Is he a lock? Hell no. Is he worth a thrid or fourth round pick? Maybe. He'd definitly somebody to keep an eye on.

http://www.shrinegame.com/game_01_10_05.php

With such a diverse group of talent to choose from several others got mentions for certain attributes of their game, such as the athleticism of Auburn's Jay Ratliff, size and better-than-advertised quickness of Memphis' Albert Means and pass rush potential shown by Minnesota's Darrell Reid.

wags
01-14-2005, 02:32 PM
Here's one draft site's ranking of the DT's.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/dt.html

texasguy346
01-14-2005, 03:05 PM
I kind of like Luis Castillo out of Northwestern. If I remember correctly he played much of this year hurt, and he essientially caused havoc while playing with one arm. I think he tore a tendon or a muscle in his other arm. If he drops down to a second day pick he might be a nice pick up in the later rounds.

El Tejano
01-14-2005, 03:23 PM
The thing about us and Marcus Spears' injury is that since our team is barely getting over injured players and stuff like that, I am not sure we are going to want to invest in a player with an injury that high.

aj.
01-14-2005, 04:25 PM
Rod Wright is staying for his senior year.

ArlingtonTexan
01-14-2005, 08:01 PM
Change the name of the opposing team, and I can say the same about nearly all the DT in this year's draft.

Mean's is on of the few with the size and potential who may becoming something. Is he a lock? Hell no. Is he worth a thrid or fourth round pick? Maybe. He'd definitly somebody to keep an eye on.

http://www.shrinegame.com/game_01_10_05.php

With such a diverse group of talent to choose from several others got mentions for certain attributes of their game, such as the athleticism of Auburn's Jay Ratliff, size and better-than-advertised quickness of Memphis' Albert Means and pass rush potential shown by Minnesota's Darrell Reid.

3rd or 4th round i tend to like guys who were productive and have something wrong, (too slow, too short, injury). The guys who have not produced with the physical goods are generally hit or miss so later is better like 5th or later. Means is in that 2nd category imo.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-14-2005, 08:02 PM
*Texas DTs Rodrique Wright and Larry Dibbles are both announcing their intentions to enter the draft today. Rumors have Wright leaving while Dibbles hasn't given much of a lean. Wright received a mid-1st Round grade from the advisory committee.

http://www.draftshowcase.com/underclassmen.htm

Blake
01-15-2005, 12:21 AM
I read wright was leaving on nfldraftcountdown.com

aj.
01-15-2005, 07:25 AM
I saw Rodrique Wright's press conference. He is staying at Texas for his senior year.

ComstockLode
01-15-2005, 11:02 AM
I posted yesterday that he was staying.... Rod wright that is.... You should check the staying or leaving thread...

aj.
01-15-2005, 11:54 AM
I posted yesterday that he was staying I guess that makes two of us then.

beerlover
01-15-2005, 12:15 PM
then that officially reflects the heading of this thread :bag:

Blake
01-15-2005, 01:49 PM
I posted yesterday that he was staying.... Rod wright that is.... You should check the staying or leaving thread...

Sorry to waste your precious time with my one line comment.

Errant Hothy
01-19-2005, 12:14 PM
CJ Mosley, DT Missiouri, has decided to enter the draft. Proves a nice little boost to the DT talent.

It's still weak though.

Number19
01-19-2005, 06:06 PM
I kind of like Luis Castillo out of Northwestern. If I remember correctly he played much of this year hurt, and he essientially caused havoc while playing with one arm. I think he tore a tendon or a muscle in his other arm. If he drops down to a second day pick he might be a nice pick up in the later rounds.
I like Castillo a lot. He is a bit of a sleeper right now, projected for the third round. Depending on his combine workout, he may really rise in the ranking. I've read three scouting reports on him and none of them report any weakness of consequence. He needs to add a little weight and strength and refine his technique. He occassionally comes out too high and needs to keep his pads down. That's it for the negative. On the positive side, he's quick, very strong and always gives 100% with a great work ethic. He's played on a team that hasn't been very good recently so his numbers don't impress as much as the better known players, but he's had 251 career tackles, with 19.5 TFL and 4.5 sacks. He may not be a dominant pass rusher, but that's not the responsibility of a DLman in Caper's scheme and he's perfect to groom behind Walker and Smith. Pro Football Weekly says he has "really impressed the scouts" and "as a football player he does not leave much to be desired".

So, today I've been toying with the idea of trading our #13 pick for a 1st round pick in 2006 and a #2 this year.

With our two number 2's we go after Castillo and OG David Baas.

I'm predicting that Haloti Ngata is going to develope into an elite top 15 pick next year and I'd sure like the Texans to go after him. He's the prototypical NT but I like him as DE on the same side as Babin.

Number19
01-19-2005, 06:48 PM
CJ Mosley, DT Missiouri, has decided to enter the draft. Proves a nice little boost to the DT talent...
Haven't found a scouting report, but here are his stats:

6'-3"....305lbs......no 40 time

2002
41 tackles.....8 tackles for loss...3 sacks......3 qb hurries
2003
67 tackles...16 tackles for loss...6 sacks.......7 qb hurries
2004
61 tackles...14 tackles for loss...6.5 sacks...12 qb hurries

Number19
01-19-2005, 10:18 PM
Here are the career statistics for six defensive tackles. This is for three years - 2004 stats are generally unavailable.

PLAYER............TACKLES.....TFL.......SACKS

Cody...................85..........18.5........11
Spears................103.........17.5........10
Johnson...............117.........21.5.........?
Hawthorne............159........31............6
Mosley.................169.........38..........15. 5
Castillo.................176.........11..........2 .5


Mosley really stands out.
And Castillo, playing in the Big Ten, is an elite run defender.

Meloy
01-20-2005, 02:24 PM
Here are the career statistics for six defensive tackles. This is for three years - 2004 stats are generally unavailable.

PLAYER............TACKLES.....TFL.......SACKS

Cody...................85..........18.5........11
Spears................103.........17.5........10
Johnson...............117.........21.5.........?
Hawthorne............159........31............6
Mosley.................169.........38..........15. 5
Castillo.................176.........11..........2 .5


Mosley really stands out.
And Castillo, playing in the Big Ten, is an elite run defender.

Is this scenario possible? Trade down to maybe 18-20th and get Rolle (some projections say he may fall that far but I'm not sure). We pick up a 2nd giving us two 2's & two 3's. Then we offer some combination to move back into 1st round to get Mosley? Maybe just a fantasy but who would have thought Texans would end up with 3 rookie starters last year?

Blake
01-20-2005, 02:54 PM
Rolle will be the 1st CB off the board. Look for him to go top 10. I bet 2 CB's are gone before the 18th pick.

astrofan
01-20-2005, 04:56 PM
Castillo seems more like an end than a twogap nose tackle
he was a pretty good hs wrestler which makes him more appealing to me

Number19
01-20-2005, 05:52 PM
Is this scenario possible? Trade down to maybe 18-20th and get Rolle (some projections say he may fall that far but I'm not sure). We pick up a 2nd giving us two 2's & two 3's. Then we offer some combination to move back into 1st round to get Mosley? Maybe just a fantasy but who would have thought Texans would end up with 3 rookie starters last year?
Moving down to 18 to 20, there is a difference in value of 200 to 250 points. You could only expect to get a high to mid-third round pick in exchange, unless the other party was really desparate. To squeeze into the bottom of the 2nd round would require a move down to about 23 to 25. To move our #47 pick back into the bottom of the 1st round would require both our #73 and our #78, at a minimum and probably a little more.

I'm curious, if you did go after Rolle, or any CB, who would you bench - Robinson or Glenn? Or would you have Rolle as a backup?