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J-Russ
02-09-2009, 05:09 PM
Texans fans have heard little recently about negotiations with Dunta Robinson.

That could mean they're tirelessly working a deal and are close to announcing a long term extension before the 19th - or it could mean they are miles apart and nothing is moving, which could mean a franchise tag is in Dunta's future.

As far as Dunta, we've covered this before, but if I had to guess what's been going on, and what will happen sometime in the next 11 days this is it:

* Dunta and his agent want something close to Chris Gamble money, which was $23 million guaranteed.
* The Texans have an offer on the table between $17 and $20 million guaranteed.
* Dunta and his agent will not accept the Texans offer
* The Texans will use the non-exclusive franchise tag on Dunta which will guarantee him $9.96 million for one season, if he signs the tender

I can't see the Texans letting Dunta walk without any compensation. That's why the tag is the only option if they remain far apart in their negotiations next Thursday. Without a tag, the Texans lose what leverage they have with the player after the 19th.

The franchise tag will make Dunta unhappy in the context that he's not getting the long term guarantee (or the money) that he wants, but it will protect the Texans by giving them first right of refusal on offers made by other teams, allow them to continue to negotiate a long term deal with Robinson, and keep potential suitors away from Dunta because of the compensation involved (two first round draft picks).

The Texans have never tagged a player before but if it ever made sense to use the tag on a player, this is the one. The tag pays Robinson handsomely for one season - although it's less than half of what he most likely wants. But it gives the Texans another year to see how Dunta performs on his surgically repaired knee that still felt 'funny' at times (Dunta's words) after he returned to action last season.

I would expect to start seeing news of more franchise tenders being offered to players this week.

Stay tuned

http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m2d9-Dunta-watch--expect-more-franchise-tags-this-week

Ole Miss Texan
02-09-2009, 05:35 PM
I don't really think Dunta and his agent have all that much leverage with the current situation. I would be a fan of the non-exclusive franchise tag.

No team will pay that much for him AND give up two 1st round draft picks. Gives us more time to negotiate a long-term deal too which would void the tag.

Thorn
02-09-2009, 05:52 PM
I think our defense is better with Dunta in there, which makes our whole team better. But in the current light of our economy, I am sickened by these millions paid to sports figures. I quit watching baseball a long time ago because of this crap, I hope that doesn't happen to me with football.

dalemurphy
02-09-2009, 05:54 PM
I think our defense is better with Dunta in there, which makes our whole team better. But in the current light of our economy, I am sickened by these millions paid to sports figures. I quit watching baseball a long time ago because of this crap, I hope that doesn't happen to me with football.

well, as long as contracts aren't guaranteed, at least the players will be giving effort in the NFL, unlike MLB and NBA.

texanskan
02-09-2009, 05:56 PM
I think our defense is better with Dunta in there, which makes our whole team better. But in the current light of our economy, I am sickened by these millions paid to sports figures. I quit watching baseball a long time ago because of this crap, I hope that doesn't happen to me with football.

I have zero problems with football player contracts they put their bodies on the line and are the best at what they do.

IMO with non-guaranteed contracts it's hard to complain

4Texans
02-09-2009, 05:57 PM
Gives us more time to negotiate a long-term deal too which would void the tag.


That's really the only reason they would be putting the tag on him. It's always possible that they can't work out a deal and he play's with the Tag. It's better for the Salary Cap if they work out a long term deal. Hopefully a deal gets done. DR has value on the field and the locker room with the Texans.

DiehardChris
02-09-2009, 06:31 PM
Well, of course we're not going to let him walk without compensation. I don't think anyone who knows anything about the NFL thinks otherwise. It's always been either overpay a little bit, or franchise tag him. Did anyone think otherwise?

kiwitexansfan
02-09-2009, 08:09 PM
Well, of course we're not going to let him walk without compensation. I don't think anyone who knows anything about the NFL thinks otherwise. It's always been either overpay a little bit, or franchise tag him. Did anyone think otherwise?

Would you rather pay Dunta top 5 CB money or have him walk away for nothing?

I think that burdening our cap with a bloated salary for Dunta is long term a bigger issue than letting him walk away for nothing.

Put me in the "Hope Dunta resigns for a Top 20ish level contract or let him go" camp. (Even then I think we are over paying him as a CB, but I will pay him for his leadership and toughness qualities)

gtexan02
02-09-2009, 08:16 PM
Would you rather pay Dunta top 5 CB money or have him walk away for nothing?

I think that burdening our cap with a bloated salary for Dunta is long term a bigger issue than letting him walk away for nothing.

Put me in the "Hope Dunta resigns for a Top 20ish level contract or let him go" camp. (Even then I think we are over paying him as a CB, but I will pay him for his leadership and toughness qualities)

Don't forget that if we dont' tag him and he signs a big deal somewhere else, we'll probably get a 3rd or 4th in compensation from the NFL

PHAROAH
02-09-2009, 08:18 PM
I say franchise him and if we can't come to an agreement we can work out a trade instead of getting two 1st round picks maybe we take a 1st & 3rd rounder in aprils draft and get his replacement at a cheap price. Dunta is a really good player but he isn't worth that kind of coin plus we don't know how his knee will hold up long term wise.

TheRealJoker
02-09-2009, 08:22 PM
I say franchise him and if we can't come to an agreement we can work out a trade instead of getting two 1st round picks maybe we take a 1st & 3rd rounder in aprils draft and get his replacement at a cheap price. Dunta is a really good player but he isn't worth that kind of coin plus we don't know how his knee will hold up long term wise.

And you expect a team to give up a 1st and 3rd for him?

DiehardChris
02-09-2009, 10:37 PM
Would you rather pay Dunta top 5 CB money or have him walk away for nothing?

I think that burdening our cap with a bloated salary for Dunta is long term a bigger issue than letting him walk away for nothing.

Put me in the "Hope Dunta resigns for a Top 20ish level contract or let him go" camp. (Even then I think we are over paying him as a CB, but I will pay him for his leadership and toughness qualities)

Well if it was limited to only those two choices? I'd let him walk - but we have the franchise tag. If you're asking if I'd rather let him walk or pay him top 5 money for one year via the franchise tag - that's easy. Franchise tag.

Let's not forget that if he DOES get back to 100%, he could be entering the prime of his career. He was playing at a pro bowl level before the injury, and if he's about to do that for say 3 or 4 years, you have to pay for it. You know he's not going to get lazy after his big contract. He works his tail off. I'd rather pay a LITTLE too much for him than go with an unproven commodity who you never know if they'll gel with the team, etc.

steelbtexan
02-09-2009, 11:18 PM
If some team wanted DR & we couldn't work out a deal with him I would ask for a 1st rd pick. If we got the 1st rd pick we could trade our 1st rd pick for Peppers & use Detroit's (for example) pick no.21 that we aquired for DR to pick a DB like DJ Moore.

The1ApplePie
02-09-2009, 11:24 PM
No way Dunta is worth what he is asking. Even pre-injury that would be almost laughable

Good player, but not top 5 or 20

thunderkyss
02-09-2009, 11:30 PM
I don't understand this, "he was playing at a pro-bowl level before the injury" stuff. I think he was playing at an NFL starter level, but not pro-bowl level. I don't think he's ever been a pro-bowl corner. His coverage skills are very poor. He's our best tackler....... he use to hit like a Mack Truck, and he shut down the outside edge for any running back in the game......

That spells strong safety to me.

But, IMHO, if the Texans are close to giving him $20 million gauranteed, if that's what they think he is worth, I can't see them not closing the deal on $23 million.

If they are still at a stale mate, the Texans have got to be closer to $17 million.

Jackie Chiles
02-10-2009, 12:35 AM
Even if he signs for top 5 CB money I really don't see what the big deal is. The salary cap is so large now that unless you really go overboard in FA its not as big a deal as it once was. In a couple years his contract will look better than the day after he signs it. Its not like we are the type of team that desperately needs all that cap space to go after some big name guy, we have been building through the draft fairly effectively the last few years. I would hate to see us lose young talent like that without any compensation, especially at a position of such value and need. Bottom line is I'd much rather spend the money on Dunta than one or two similarly over-priced free agents.

dtran04
02-10-2009, 12:38 AM
One positive is that if Dunta does leave, you would expect the Texans to receive about a 3rd-4th round compensatory pick if they don't go out and sign someone significant. The Texans always seem to replace everybody they let go and never take advantage of the compensatory system.

Norg
02-10-2009, 12:39 AM
Hes not worth 23 mill hes not that good plzzz if i know the texans they dont throw money around and there smart if they do this one year and wait and see deal

DiehardChris
02-10-2009, 01:04 AM
I don't understand this, "he was playing at a pro-bowl level before the injury" stuff. I think he was playing at an NFL starter level, but not pro-bowl level. I don't think he's ever been a pro-bowl corner. His coverage skills are very poor. He's our best tackler....... he use to hit like a Mack Truck, and he shut down the outside edge for any running back in the game......

That spells strong safety to me.

But, IMHO, if the Texans are close to giving him $20 million gauranteed, if that's what they think he is worth, I can't see them not closing the deal on $23 million.

If they are still at a stale mate, the Texans have got to be closer to $17 million.

Maybe my memory is fuzzy - but I remember him playing extremely well before he got hurt. I really thought he was entering his prime.

gtexan02
02-10-2009, 07:31 AM
Don't forget that if we dont' tag him and he signs a big deal somewhere else, we'll probably get a 3rd or 4th in compensation from the NFL

One positive is that if Dunta does leave, you would expect the Texans to receive about a 3rd-4th round compensatory pick if they don't go out and sign someone significant. The Texans always seem to replace everybody they let go and never take advantage of the compensatory system.

This.

We've never let anyone of significance go before. Maybe its time to rip off the bandaid.

I like Dunta for his leadership and tough mentality more than anything. But I don't want us to spend top 5 money on him. People are being shortsighted if they think thats all it will amount to. Every other player on our roster will get the idea that all you have to do is threaten free agency in order to get a big payday. I would be pissed if I was a like AJ who has led the team offensively and made numerous probowls, yet was making less than a guy like DRob

GP
02-10-2009, 09:07 AM
Hmmm...

He's going to push for a tad bit more than what we're probably offering him?

Then we'd have to put our franchise tag on him?

Before the injury, I'd say "no problem."

Now, I'm not so sure. I was in the "Re-sign Dunta!" camp when the thread was started back in the regular season. I'm coming off that, mostly because I thought we had a chance of Dunta working with the Texans to get a deal done that was fair to both sides, especially factoring in the injury.

I don't think anyone is going to give up high picks for him. But if they're serious, then I'm for doing the trade. He has value, to a certain point.

Polo
02-10-2009, 09:17 AM
I wouldn't give Dunta as much as he's asking for, but I think some of you are underestimating his ability and what he brings to our defense when he's healthy.

If Dunta was on the Vikings, Titans, Ravens, Eagles, ect., I think he'd be thought of in a different light...The fact is that he's been a pretty good player on really poor defenses that struggle to put pressure on opposing QB's. Not a lot of talent around him, and the scheme was not really conducive to putting players in position to make plays agressively.

But no...He hasn't shown to be worth top tier CB money. But he's not just a guy either.

Blake
02-10-2009, 09:41 AM
Give him his damn money. He came back from a horrible injury and played really well the last 1/2 of the season. That is dedication for a team that has given him little in return besides money.

If he wants to be here, then im going to pay him his money.

I think we should be glad his agent is not trying to force a trade or release or something.

nunusguy
02-10-2009, 09:48 AM
Neither D-Rob or R. Smith has blinked yet and I'm surprised and a little worried as I thought we'd have this deal put together by now ?

HOU-TEX
02-10-2009, 09:52 AM
Give him his damn money. He came back from a horrible injury and played really well the last 1/2 of the season. That is dedication for a team that has given him little in return besides money.

If he wants to be here, then im going to pay him his money.

I think we should be glad his agent is not trying to force a trade or release or something.

I'm going to have to disagree, SM. I like the way Dunta plays the game, but he was no where near his normal self last season.

IMO, it's too risky to throw a lot of money at him now. If he's not willing to come to an agreement, tag him. This way he'd have a year to prove he's worth top 10 money.

buddyboy
02-10-2009, 10:38 AM
I'm going to have to disagree, SM. I like the way Dunta plays the game, but he was no where near his normal self last season.

IMO, it's too risky to throw a lot of money at him now. If he's not willing to come to an agreement, tag him. This way he'd have a year to prove he's worth top 10 money.

I kind of understand where the franchise tag people are coming from...how you have an extra year to decide if he's worth top 10 money...but then, arent' we going to be paying him top 10 money to see if he's worth top 10 money?

Blake
02-10-2009, 10:49 AM
I'm going to have to disagree, SM. I like the way Dunta plays the game, but he was no where near his normal self last season.

IMO, it's too risky to throw a lot of money at him now. If he's not willing to come to an agreement, tag him. This way he'd have a year to prove he's worth top 10 money.

You want to pay him almost 10 million to see if he is worth paying 20-23 guaranteed over a 5-6 year deal?

He is 26 years old. Should be back to 100% this season. He is going to get his long term deal money be it from us, or from another team.

And there is no guarantee if you tag him he will agree to play.

dalemurphy
02-10-2009, 10:52 AM
I kind of understand where the franchise tag people are coming from...how you have an extra year to decide if he's worth top 10 money...but then, arent' we going to be paying him top 10 money to see if he's worth top 10 money?

Yes, but 2 things:

1. We're only doing it for one year, so we aren't stuck in a long contract with a guy that ends up being unable to fulfill it do to injury... If he gets 20 million in bonus money over 5 years and the team made a mistake and wants to release him after two years, it would be a $15 million charge on that 3rd season cap just to release him... or, it would be $7.5 million for year 3 and another $7.5 million for year 4.

2. After cutting guys like Greenwood, Green, Weaver this month, the team will be over $30 million under the cap by most accounts, so a $10 million charge for this one season isn't crippling for the team's efforts to re-sign OD, DRyans, the draft picks, or its activity in free agency.

steelbtexan
02-10-2009, 11:00 AM
I kind of understand where the franchise tag people are coming from...how you have an extra year to decide if he's worth top 10 money...but then, arent' we going to be paying him top 10 money to see if he's worth top 10 money?

Yes but it's only for one year. I would rather franchise him becase it wont tie up cap money long term. If he gets back to 100 % sign him long term in 2010.

If we franchise him & trade him for a no.1 pick this would allow the Texans cap flexability to sign Peppers & draft a CB with the no.1 pick we got for Dunta.

Not a bad way to look at it IMO.

The Texans hold all of the power in these negotiations becuse they can franchise DR & keep him or trade him & get more draft picks along with freeing up cap money to sign a top tier FA with the money they saved by getting DR off the books. Plus they should get a no.1 for DR in a trade if DR is the top 10 CB that some people on this MB claim he is.

HOU-TEX
02-10-2009, 11:03 AM
You want to pay him almost 10 million to see if he is worth paying 20-23 guaranteed over a 5-6 year deal?

He is 26 years old. Should be back to 100% this season. He is going to get his long term deal money be it from us, or from another team.

And there is no guarantee if you tag him he will agree to play.

I'd just like to see him prove he's going to be that guy he was before the injury. He said himself that he wasn't 100% at any point last season. Now, he could very well come back 100% this season, but there's that chance he won't.

In the end, I'd be happy for Dunta getting a new deal if that's the case. I just hope it turns out to be a gamble that ends up in our favor, unlike a few in our past.

Mr. White
02-10-2009, 11:36 AM
D-Rob's a damn good corner, but nowhere near top-5 caliber.

The thing that he going for him is that it's a bull market for CB's. Just ask Jacques Reeves.

I think he's going to get his money for that reason alone.

Mr teX
02-10-2009, 11:54 AM
http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m2d9-Dunta-watch--expect-more-franchise-tags-this-week

Makes perfect sense to me.....Dunta might be upset, but with the texans still unsure of how the injury affected his play for the long term & now the economy, the 17 -20 million dollar deal they say have on the table for him is only fair for both parties.

My advice to Dunta:

Take the bird in hand & seize that 8 - 11 million more that's guaranteed as opposed to possibly losing some of that by going out on the market & subsequently watching teams low-ball even more essentially for the same reasons we are. Or worse... we sign an overpriced FA & then lose some of that guaranteed money that's earmarked now & thereby forcing us to franchise him...or someone gives us 2 1st rounders....

We win either way.

bigbrewster2000
02-10-2009, 11:59 AM
D-Rob's a damn good corner, but nowhere near top-5 caliber.

The thing that he going for him is that it's a bull market for CB's. Just ask Jacques Reeves.
I think he's going to get his money for that reason alone.

What does that mean? Reeves only has 4 mil gauranteed. That is hardly a big contract. His entire contract is smaller than what Dunta is asking for in gauranteed money.

Blake
02-10-2009, 12:28 PM
I'd just like to see him prove he's going to be that guy he was before the injury. He said himself that he wasn't 100% at any point last season. Now, he could very well come back 100% this season, but there's that chance he won't.

In the end, I'd be happy for Dunta getting a new deal if that's the case. I just hope it turns out to be a gamble that ends up in our favor, unlike a few in our past.

Fair enough. Like you I want whats best for the team, but I also want what is best for Dunta.

Lets hope they both get a good deal. And the fans.

GP
02-10-2009, 01:09 PM
What are the chances that a team will fake interest in Dunta, just to get us to franchise him (you only get ONE franchise tagged player, right?) when the other team is really after some other guy on our team? That way they have made us use the franchise tag on Dunta and they can go after a different player on our team and not have to worry about the tag's compensation clause(es).

I either want Dunta back for one more year, or slap the tag on him and make another team give us the farm for him if they think he's THAT good. But I am having a hard time thinking that any team out there would go to that length for a guy who had the sort of injury that Dunta had. Then, next year Dunta would be walking away...so then what was the point of it all?

I dunno. This is interesting, to say the least.

dalemurphy
02-10-2009, 01:11 PM
D-Rob's a damn good corner, but nowhere near top-5 caliber.

The thing that he going for him is that it's a bull market for CB's. Just ask Jacques Reeves.

I think he's going to get his money for that reason alone.

I think it's very hard for fans to know that. First of all, he's been playing for a very poor and unimaginative coaching staff. Second, since his rookie year, he's been on teams with a very poor pass rush and very poor safety play. If you were to put him on a team like Philadelphia, New England, Pittsburgh the past few years it is at least possible that he would be considered an elite CB. I look forward to seeing what he can do the next couple years and I think if he checks out physically is well worth the risk of a hefty contract.

houstonbola
02-10-2009, 01:39 PM
Before he was hurt many argue he was on his way to his first pro bowl caliber year and I agree in full. With the current situation I would hate to see him go but if he doesnt agree to the mentioned 20M gauranteed then we put the tag on him and get compensated. No way do we let him walk without being compensated. I really do hope they come to some sort of agreement for him to stay though.

ChampionTexan
02-10-2009, 01:50 PM
What are the chances that a team will fake interest in Dunta, just to get us to franchise him (you only get ONE franchise tagged player, right?) when the other team is really after some other guy on our team? That way they have made us use the franchise tag on Dunta and they can go after a different player on our team and not have to worry about the tag's compensation clause(es).



That is the most ill-thought out hypothesis I've seen in quite some time.

Have you even looked at the list of our UFA's? There's not a single guy on that list (with the possible exception of Dunta) that would be even remotely worthy of the franchise tag. If the Texans don't use the tag on Dunta, they will not be using it on anybody and every other NFL team knows that.

buddyboy
02-10-2009, 02:01 PM
I think it's very hard for fans to know that. First of all, he's been playing for a very poor and unimaginative coaching staff. Second, since his rookie year, he's been on teams with a very poor pass rush and very poor safety play. If you were to put him on a team like Philadelphia, New England, Pittsburgh the past few years it is at least possible that he would be considered an elite CB. I look forward to seeing what he can do the next couple years and I think if he checks out physically is well worth the risk of a hefty contract.

Not only is it possible...it's possimpiple!

Anyone get that?

BigBull17
02-10-2009, 02:51 PM
well, as long as contracts aren't guaranteed, at least the players will be giving effort in the NFL, unlike MLB and NBA.

Stacy McGrady always gives maximum effort...

Not only is it possible...it's possimpiple!

Anyone get that?

Ok Barney...

Yankee_In_TX
02-10-2009, 03:02 PM
Not only is it possible...it's possimpiple!

Anyone get that?

I'll Texutation you for that.

Second Honeymoon
02-10-2009, 03:54 PM
I would love to chime in on my support for resigning Dunta, but some of the statements on this thread are just ridiculous and need to be put in place, first.

There is no long term cap implications of franchising Dunta. PERIOD.

Some of these people think that if you sign someone it somehow is going to make signing other people impossible or is going to somehow turn us into the 49ers of the 90s. People need to wake up. Read an article outside of Houston or not written by the mindless yokels at the Chronicle (apologies steph and LZ) The cap is gone in 2010 and the cap and the math involved is going to be completely changed by 2012. People act like they are spending their own money on players and it just makes me wonder if people even realize that you have to pay players fair market value to keep them or they leave and your team will suck.

If you don't sign Dunta, you better get Asomugho because we have the cap space, we have the money, and we have the need. What is the problem? Is something wrong with resigning Dunta?

Please realize that signing Dunta is going to have little to no effect on the future. All this salary cap nonsense is just used by cheap owners to have an excuse not to sign someone. We have the cap space, money, and need. Bob (and most of the posters around here) had no problem giving Carr the big money and new contract....why not actually retain someone who is worth a crap?

Count me clearly in the 'RESIGN DUNTA' camp because any other position is just ludicrous

Mr teX
02-10-2009, 04:15 PM
I would love to chime in on my support for resigning Dunta, but some of the statements on this thread are just ridiculous and need to be put in place, first.

There is no long term cap implications of franchising Dunta. PERIOD.

Some of these people think that if you sign someone it somehow is going to make signing other people impossible or is going to somehow turn us into the 49ers of the 90s. People need to wake up. Read an article outside of Houston or not written by the mindless yokels at the Chronicle (apologies steph and LZ) The cap is gone in 2010 and the cap and the math involved is going to be completely changed by 2012. People act like they are spending their own money on players and it just makes me wonder if people even realize that you have to pay players fair market value to keep them or they leave and your team will suck.

If you don't sign Dunta, you better get Asomugho because we have the cap space, we have the money, and we have the need. What is the problem? Is something wrong with resigning Dunta?

Please realize that signing Dunta is going to have little to no effect on the future. All this salary cap nonsense is just used by cheap owners to have an excuse not to sign someone. We have the cap space, money, and need. Bob (and most of the posters around here) had no problem giving Carr the big money and new contract....why not actually retain someone who is worth a crap?

Count me clearly in the 'RESIGN DUNTA' camp because any other position is just ludicrous


1st, i'm confident that the owners & the NFLPA will get a deal worked out before the uncapped year is supposed to hit. Stability is a big reason why the NFL has been so successful above all the other major sports & the collective bargaining agreement is a big reason why that's been possible. besides, the only major thing the NFLPA wants to change is the rookie salary table. If they can limit what the unproven rookies get coming into the league, it makes for more money to be spread around to the vets who've already proven they can play.

Secondly, Most players want & get the lions share of their guaranteed money front loaded. So the idea that a big money FA signing won't affect the signing/extending of another player & or a cap situation is ridiculous.

Second Honeymoon
02-10-2009, 04:27 PM
My point is that its a soft cap right now with the uncapped year. You must realize that the uncapped year is a certainty. It isn't up for debate. The only thing that is up for debate is how they are going to handle the transition to the next deal.

So you renegotiate your contracts on your own big ticket players and sign UFAs and funnel your cap hits to 2010. Teams are already acting on this, its not a big secret. What you are going to end up seeing is a soft cap CBA that has a luxury tax mechanism to spread the wealth....sadly, it is going to be along the lines of the current MLB model. I also feel based on how far apart the parties involved are, a work stoppage is not out of question.

If there is a competitive advantage to be had, and I feel there is, you should try and take advantage of it. Point your cap to 2010 and take care of your business and get the house in order long-term.

dalemurphy
02-10-2009, 04:53 PM
My point is that its a soft cap right now with the uncapped year. You must realize that the uncapped year is a certainty. It isn't up for debate. The only thing that is up for debate is how they are going to handle the transition to the next deal.

So you renegotiate your contracts on your own big ticket players and sign UFAs and funnel your cap hits to 2010. Teams are already acting on this, its not a big secret. What you are going to end up seeing is a soft cap CBA that has a luxury tax mechanism to spread the wealth....sadly, it is going to be along the lines of the current MLB model. I also feel based on how far apart the parties involved are, a work stoppage is not out of question.

If there is a competitive advantage to be had, and I feel there is, you should try and take advantage of it. Point your cap to 2010 and take care of your business and get the house in order long-term.

SH, I actually agree with your larger point... which is that the team's cap situation is such that if they want Dunta here, they can keep him without harming the team this season or going forward.

That being said, some of your points are bogus:

1. There still could be a cap in place in 2010 and if there is it is likely to be no larger than the one this year. After all, it is the owners that have decided to terminate the current agreement. And, the uncapped season actually is very bad for the players because they lose a lot of freedom. For instance, without the capped year, a player can't become a free agent until they have six full seasons in the NFL- as opposed to 4 years as it is currently. So, next season guys like OD and Demeco Ryans wouldn't be able to hit free agency for 2 more years.

2. Any contracts that exist now will impact under the new deal. So, if we sign Dunta to a deal where he gets $10 million in 2010 that $10 million will count against any cap that is in place when a new deal is struck- or the same can be said for 2011 or 2012.

Second Honeymoon
02-10-2009, 07:42 PM
SH, I actually agree with your larger point... which is that the team's cap situation is such that if they want Dunta here, they can keep him without harming the team this season or going forward.

That being said, some of your points are bogus:

1. There still could be a cap in place in 2010 and if there is it is likely to be no larger than the one this year. After all, it is the owners that have decided to terminate the current agreement. And, the uncapped season actually is very bad for the players because they lose a lot of freedom. For instance, without the capped year, a player can't become a free agent until they have six full seasons in the NFL- as opposed to 4 years as it is currently. So, next season guys like OD and Demeco Ryans wouldn't be able to hit free agency for 2 more years.

2. Any contracts that exist now will impact under the new deal. So, if we sign Dunta to a deal where he gets $10 million in 2010 that $10 million will count against any cap that is in place when a new deal is struck- or the same can be said for 2011 or 2012.

Your 2nd point is valid and could very well be the case, but the 2010 season is uncapped. when the negotiating period ended without a new CBA it automatically triggered a 2010 uncapped year. I am not saying its a good thing or a bad thing, its just a thing. It depends on how you look at it whether you see it as an omen or an opportunity.

nunusguy
02-14-2009, 12:06 PM
February is personnel-juggling time for NFL teams, and the biggest ball in the air for the Indianapolis Colts, president Bill Polian said, is Kelvin Hayden.

If the Colts can't re-sign the starting cornerback -- and negotiations aren't going well, Polian said -- they plan to give him the one-year franchise tag to the tune of nearly $10 million.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20090213/SPORTS03/902130338/1058/SPORTS03
***********************************************
FWIW, looks like the Colts are confronted with the same set of problems
with their top corner that we are ?

TexansMVP
02-14-2009, 12:20 PM
For what it is worth, my cousin ran into Dunta and Andre Johnson yesterday on Friday night at D&B. He asked Dunta if he was coming back and he responded that he plans on it. Again, just sharing so take it for what it is worth.

steelbtexan
02-14-2009, 01:29 PM
I agree with SH.

Uncle Bob Spend some money


Not going to happen

In this economy Uncle Bob just raised saeson ticket prices 3% & parking $3.

Most of the NFL kept ticket prices the same as last years prices.

i think this tells the fans where Uncle Bobs heart lies.

dalemurphy
02-14-2009, 02:50 PM
I agree with SH.

Uncle Bob Spend some money


Not going to happen

In this economy Uncle Bob just raised saeson ticket prices 3% & parking $3.

Most of the NFL kept ticket prices the same as last years prices.

i think this tells the fans where Uncle Bobs heart lies.


That's just ignorant! You can criticize all kinds of things about the Texans. However, calling Bob McNair cheap is ridiculous. Furthermore, your argument using the ticket prices is also ignorant. Check out how ticket prices at Reliant compare to the rest of the NFL. I know I pay less than $40 per ticket for good seats and a great venue. I can't come close to that at pits like Texas Stadium. Houston ticket prices are some of the cheapest in the NFL, still! By the way, show me an example of McNair's cheapness... perhaps you recall the huge investment he made to build the stadium in hopes he could pressure the NFL into coming here instead of LA.

ChampionTexan
02-14-2009, 03:13 PM
That's just ignorant! You can criticize all kinds of things about the Texans. However, calling Bob McNair cheap is ridiculous. Furthermore, your argument using the ticket prices is also ignorant. Check out how ticket prices at Reliant compare to the rest of the NFL. I know I pay less than $40 per ticket for good seats and a great venue. I can't come close to that at pits like Texas Stadium. Houston ticket prices are some of the cheapest in the NFL, still! By the way, show me an example of McNair's cheapness... perhaps you recall the huge investment he made to build the stadium in hopes he could pressure the NFL into coming here instead of LA.

Would rep you if I could.

Houston ticket prices are well below the NFL average.

2008 NFL ticket prices (http://teammarketing.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/std-content/repos/Top/Fan%20Cost%20Index/NFL/NFL08.pdf) (Please notice that a 3% increase still leaves us under last years average).

Also, if you want to complain money hasn't been spent wisely, I can't argue. If you want to argue it hasn't been spent at all, our cap problems that only this off-season have gone away would indicate otherwise.

steelbtexan
02-14-2009, 04:45 PM
That's just ignorant! You can criticize all kinds of things about the Texans. However, calling Bob McNair cheap is ridiculous. Furthermore, your argument using the ticket prices is also ignorant. Check out how ticket prices at Reliant compare to the rest of the NFL. I know I pay less than $40 per ticket for good seats and a great venue. I can't come close to that at pits like Texas Stadium. Houston ticket prices are some of the cheapest in the NFL, still! By the way, show me an example of McNair's cheapness... perhaps you recall the huge investment he made to build the stadium in hopes he could pressure the NFL into coming here instead of LA.

The Stevenson situation for one, if he had paid him off he wouldn't be having the problems he is having now.

Before the 2008 season the Texans have had one of the lowest paid coaching staffs in the league. They could could have hired a vteran DC to replace R.Smith (G.Williams, M. Nolan come to mind) but they decided to go cheap (Bush) as a 1st time coordinator. This is the most important year in Texans history. If they dont make the playoffs it will hurt the fan base & they decide to go with a 1st year DC. (Great MOVE)

I dont care about the rest of the NFL I just think it's philisophically wrong to raise ticket prices with the economic crisis the country is currently expirencing (JMHO).

McNair made a wise decision to invest in the NFL. He has profited from his decision. The Texans are in the top 10 in most profitable franchises. The city & county along with rodeo are partners with him in the stadium. This helped limit his financial exposure.

I am all for McNair making money. He took the risk he should reap the reward. I just dont choose to look @ him as a savior. He invested in this footballl team to make money and has been quite sucessful.

I just think fans have supported this team unbelieveably well & have been served up a crappy product.

Two things have been constants in the Texans existance
1. The Texans have never had a winnig record
2. Uncle Bob always gets his money

These two thing are undeniable.

I have had season tickets since 2003 & I'm sitting on the fence as far as renewals go. I need to see improvement if I'm going to be spending $300 plus parking a game. That doesn't include the PSL's which were sold as an investment. The PSL investment has gone about as well as investing in the stock market. LOL

b0ng
02-14-2009, 05:03 PM
The Stevenson situation for one, if he had paid him off he wouldn't be having the problems he is having now.

Before the 2008 season the Texans have had one of the lowest paid coaching staffs in the league. They could could have hired a vteran DC to replace R.Smith (G.Williams, M. Nolan come to mind) but they decided to go cheap (Bush) as a 1st time coordinator. This is the most important year in Texans history. If they dont make the playoffs it will hurt the fan base & they decide to go with a 1st year DC. (Great MOVE)

I dont care about the rest of the NFL I just think it's philisophically wrong to raise ticket prices with the economic crisis the country is currently expirencing (JMHO).

McNair made a wise decision to invest in the NFL. He has profited from his decision. The Texans are in the top 10 in most profitable franchises. The city & county along with rodeo are partners with him in the stadium. This helped limit his financial exposure.

I am all for McNair making money. He took the risk he should reap the reward. I just dont choose to look @ him as a savior. He invested in this footballl team to make money and has been quite sucessful.

I just think fans have supported this team unbelieveably well & have been served up a crappy product.

Two things have been constants in the Texans existance
1. The Texans have never had a winnig record
2. Uncle Bob always gets his money

These two thing are undeniable.

I have had season tickets since 2003 & I'm sitting on the fence as far as renewals go. I need to see improvement if I'm going to be spending $300 plus parking a game. That doesn't include the PSL's which were sold as an investment. The PSL investment has gone about as well as investing in the stock market. LOL

So basically you think he's cheap because we didn't get a DC that was a name guy this offseason? That's a lot of words to make that simple point (Which I'm sure well over half the board will disagree with).

steelbtexan
02-14-2009, 05:17 PM
So basically you think he's cheap because we didn't get a DC that was a name guy this offseason? That's a lot of words to make that simple point (Which I'm sure well over half the board will disagree with).

The DC & the fact we have never gone for one impact FA. (Not One)

I will stick by JMHO I think the rest of the MB are entitled to theirs as well.

I'm waiting for Uncle Bob to prove me wrong.

I'm waiting for someone to try to prove my two udeniable facts wrong.

It wont happen because it cant be defended.

awtysst
02-14-2009, 05:38 PM
The DC & the fact we have never gone for one impact FA. (Not One)

I will stick by JMHO I think the rest of the MB are entitled to theirs as well.

I'm waiting for Uncle Bob to prove me wrong.

I'm waiting for someone to try to prove my two udeniable facts wrong.

It wont happen because it cant be defended.



Well, FA is a bit of a crapshoot. The reason we havent spent a lot on FA recently(since Kubes came in) was because we didn't have the money. Charley Asserly's signing resulted in us being in something of a Salary Cap Hell with fairly poor players. That doomed us initially.

Secondly, I disagree that we have not gone after "impact" FAs. We went after and signed Weaver. When we signed him, he looked like the best DE in FA. Not only that he was coming from the vaunted Baltimore Defense. He was supposed to be an impact player that never materialized.

See, the thing about "impact players" that you do not seem to realize is that you need there is a TON of hit and miss with them. Remember how everyone was talking about Nate Clement as the next great shutdown corner and that he was THE Impact player available. Remember when SF signed him to a ridiculous contact and everyone proclaimed that SF would "roll" the division? Well if you have seen him lately he has looked VERY bad.

Great teams are build through the draft and then SUPPLEMENTED with an impact player in FA. How many Super Bowls have the Pats won since acquiring Randy Moss and Adelieus THomas? 0. How many Super bowls did Atlanta win since they signed Joe Horn? 0. How many Superbowls did the Dolphins win since signing Joey Porter? 0.

THATS the point.

b0ng
02-14-2009, 05:41 PM
The DC & the fact we have never gone for one impact FA. (Not One)

I will stick by JMHO I think the rest of the MB are entitled to theirs as well.

I'm waiting for Uncle Bob to prove me wrong.

I'm waiting for someone to try to prove my two udeniable facts wrong.

It wont happen because it cant be defended.

Your two "facts" are retarded though. There's not 1 NFL owner that doesn't get his money. And who cares if the Texans haven't had a winning record yet. You think that's going to stay the same for the rest of the time they are a franchise because Bob McNair picks a coach and a GM and lets them do their business without getting in their way?

What was the Phillip Buchanon trade supposed to be? Todd Wade? Matt Schaub? Anthony Weaver?

And as far as your beef with the picks on the coaching staff, Alex Gibbs is considered a much better coach and has had more consistent success with other teams (As well as success with the Texans) when we hired him. How is that cheap? What about signing Ray Rhodes to the defensive staff (A coach who has coached SB teams)?

You're entitled to your opinion, but it's pretty obvious that your opinion is based on dubious facts and assumptions, and that's cool.

painekiller
02-14-2009, 05:43 PM
Before the 2008 season the Texans have had one of the lowest paid coaching staffs in the league. They could could have hired a vteran DC to replace R.Smith (G.Williams, M. Nolan come to mind) but they decided to go cheap (Bush) as a 1st time coordinator. This is the most important year in Texans history. If they dont make the playoffs it will hurt the fan base & they decide to go with a 1st year DC. (Great MOVE)



Mike Nolan is a big name but is he worth the glory you are giving him? Nolan has been a DC of two big time defenses, but he was not the guy who built them, he was the guy who replaced the guy.

Lovie Smith built the Ravens defense into the leagues best, it went backwards under Nolan. A more telling think to me is that the 49ers defense played after he was gone.

To add to this Nolan is promoting a 3-4, something this team does not need to transition back to.

Williams is a big name also, he made over $1,000,000 on DC job with the Redskins, they did not become an all world defense. He went to Jacksonville at a reduced rate because Washington was still paying him, and he defense for the most part stunk, and he was let go. I am sorry 7 figure salary and stinking do not win me over.

So now name another DC that is great? You can't. Philly guy has cancer, and he undergoing chemo, so he is out. All the other "named" DC where in the play offs late or became HC.

Promoting Bush has more to do with the style that Kubiak is looking for then money. And Kubiak for most part picked his staff from young creative minds, I see no problem that, and I in no way see that as a reason McNair is cheap.

Bud Adams was cheap, you must not remember him

The Pencil Neck
02-14-2009, 05:45 PM
The DC & the fact we have never gone for one impact FA. (Not One)

I will stick by JMHO I think the rest of the MB are entitled to theirs as well.

I'm waiting for Uncle Bob to prove me wrong.

I'm waiting for someone to try to prove my two udeniable facts wrong.

It wont happen because it cant be defended.

Personally, I don't think anyone who was cheap would own a professional sports club unless they had inherited it OR they were seriously losing money. If you're cheap, there are a zillion other things to spend your money on that would be better investments and much less time consuming.

Times may be tough and money may be tight in a lot of households right now, but I don't think it's tight in the McNair household.

I think we don't go after the big name free agents because... as we saw back in the C&C days... to get someone to come to our team, we have to pay an extra 15-20%. In the end, that just leaves us a talentless team with lots of dead money.

I don't think McNair has any say or influence on the FA's we sign or even talk to. I think that's entirely up to the GM. And I think Smith is trying to build us the right way and that's without those big name "impact" FA's that are almost sure to bust and just waste our money.

dalemurphy
02-14-2009, 05:48 PM
The Stevenson situation for one, if he had paid him off he wouldn't be having the problems he is having now.

Before the 2008 season the Texans have had one of the lowest paid coaching staffs in the league. They could could have hired a vteran DC to replace R.Smith (G.Williams, M. Nolan come to mind) but they decided to go cheap (Bush) as a 1st time coordinator. This is the most important year in Texans history. If they dont make the playoffs it will hurt the fan base & they decide to go with a 1st year DC. (Great MOVE)

I dont care about the rest of the NFL I just think it's philisophically wrong to raise ticket prices with the economic crisis the country is currently expirencing (JMHO).

McNair made a wise decision to invest in the NFL. He has profited from his decision. The Texans are in the top 10 in most profitable franchises. The city & county along with rodeo are partners with him in the stadium. This helped limit his financial exposure.

I am all for McNair making money. He took the risk he should reap the reward. I just dont choose to look @ him as a savior. He invested in this footballl team to make money and has been quite sucessful.

I just think fans have supported this team unbelieveably well & have been served up a crappy product.

Two things have been constants in the Texans existance
1. The Texans have never had a winnig record
2. Uncle Bob always gets his money

These two thing are undeniable.

I have had season tickets since 2003 & I'm sitting on the fence as far as renewals go. I need to see improvement if I'm going to be spending $300 plus parking a game. That doesn't include the PSL's which were sold as an investment. The PSL investment has gone about as well as investing in the stock market. LOL


Please don't renew! You are the reason why ticket prices are what they are. If you think they're overpriced, then don't pay for them. If all of you so-called fans that complained about the product and the price of things while financially supporting it- stopped, then I'd have cheaper tickets!

painekiller
02-14-2009, 05:49 PM
The DC & the fact we have never gone for one impact FA. (Not One)

I will stick by JMHO I think the rest of the MB are entitled to theirs as well.

I'm waiting for Uncle Bob to prove me wrong.

I'm waiting for someone to try to prove my two udeniable facts wrong.

It wont happen because it cant be defended.

Sorry to post on this again, we could have spent $42M on Nate Clements, wait he was why Mike Nolan was relieved of the GM duties.

FA spending is a joke, look at Redskins, they are jokes, with their salary they should be in playoffs every year and SuperBowl some time.

Casserly is the one messed this team up, he wasted way to many picks, he did not hire teaching type coaches and he went for the franchise cover boy instead of the best player available in year one.

steelbtexan
02-14-2009, 06:28 PM
There that got everybdy talking.

AWT: Uncle Bob hired Asserly

Bong: I'm not retarted & I care if we make the playoffs

PK: I agree with your 2nd post, Nolan was a great DC with the Giants & got a ring with the Ravens. Some Asst. coaches aren't cut out to be head coaches. This remains to be seen with KUBES.

TPN: I disagree with you on your 1st point look @ the market, real estate etc. Iagree with you on points 2&3
Point 4 I diagree with you Uncle Bob has final say on how money is spent & the type of player it is spent on. (He is the type of manager that is hard to work for, one that says your in charge but you cant do certian things like bring in any players that dont fit his PR profile).

DM: If you think I have anything to do with the price of tickets you are delusional.

As far as being a so called fan if you knew me you would know that is far from the case.
As a fan I dont cosider it bad to question management after seven years of putting a poor product on the field. In fact I think I would be a poor fan if I didn't question managements comittment to winning. JMHO

b0ng
02-14-2009, 06:52 PM
There that got everybdy talking.

AWT: Uncle Bob hired Asserly

Bong: I'm not retarted & I care if we make the playoffs

PK: I agree with your 2nd post, Nolan was a great DC with the Giants & got a ring with the Ravens. Some Asst. coaches aren't cut out to be head coaches. This remains to be seen with KUBES.

TPN: I disagree with you on your 1st point look @ the market, real estate etc. Iagree with you on points 2&3
Point 4 I diagree with you Uncle Bob has final say on how money is spent & the type of player it is spent on. (He is the type of manager that is hard to work for, one that says your in charge but you cant do certian things like bring in any players that dont fit his PR profile).

DM: If you think I have anything to do with the price of tickets you are delusional.

As far as being a so called fan if you knew me you would know that is far from the case.
As a fan I dont cosider it bad to question management after seven years of putting a poor product on the field. In fact I think I would be a poor fan if I didn't question managements comittment to winning. JMHO

It's one thing to question management. It's a completely different thing to just talk directly out of your ass.

dalemurphy
02-14-2009, 06:52 PM
There that got everybdy talking.

AWT: Uncle Bob hired Asserly

Bong: I'm not retarted & I care if we make the playoffs

PK: I agree with your 2nd post, Nolan was a great DC with the Giants & got a ring with the Ravens. Some Asst. coaches aren't cut out to be head coaches. This remains to be seen with KUBES.

TPN: I disagree with you on your 1st point look @ the market, real estate etc. Iagree with you on points 2&3
Point 4 I diagree with you Uncle Bob has final say on how money is spent & the type of player it is spent on. (He is the type of manager that is hard to work for, one that says your in charge but you cant do certian things like bring in any players that dont fit his PR profile).

DM: If you think I have anything to do with the price of tickets you are delusional.

As far as being a so called fan if you knew me you would know that is far from the case.
As a fan I dont cosider it bad to question management after seven years of putting a poor product on the field. In fact I think I would be a poor fan if I didn't question managements comittment to winning. JMHO


We've sold out every game in the team's existence. If you're a season ticket holder since 2003 then you do have something to do with it. You vote with your wallet. Without a doubt, if every fan who has ever complained about their ticket prices stopped buying them, the price would go down.

Once again, the only argument I have with you is your claim that McNair is cheap. I said there is plenty to be critical of regarding this organization. Certainly the Casserly hire is a good place to start. Again, though, if you're unhappy with the ticket prices and the product on the field it's pretty darn foolish that you are still buying season tickets.

steelbtexan
02-14-2009, 07:04 PM
Bong explain to me how I'm talking out my glutious maximus?

Please share the infinite wisdom & the BONG

steelbtexan
02-14-2009, 07:20 PM
We've sold out every game in the team's existence. If you're a season ticket holder since 2003 then you do have something to do with it. You vote with your wallet. Without a doubt, if every fan who has ever complained about their ticket prices stopped buying them, the price would go down.

Once again, the only argument I have with you is your claim that McNair is cheap. I said there is plenty to be critical of regarding this organization. Certainly the Casserly hire is a good place to start. Again, though, if you're unhappy with the ticket prices and the product on the field it's pretty darn foolish that you are still buying season tickets.

I love football, I'm not ready to give up on the Texans yet, even though 7 years is a long time.

Do you think the Texans will make the playoffs before the end of the decade?

If they dont make the playoffs this year the wolves will be calling for Kubes head. Then the process of a new regime will start all over again.

Uncle Bob will be singing the praises of his 3rd regime in 8 years.

I hope the Texans make the playoffs & all of this is a moot point.

b0ng
02-14-2009, 07:30 PM
Bong explain to me how I'm talking out my glutious maximus?

Please share the infinite wisdom & the BONG

Sure.

I agree with SH.

Uncle Bob Spend some money


Not going to happen

In this economy Uncle Bob just raised saeson ticket prices 3% & parking $3.

Most of the NFL kept ticket prices the same as last years prices.

i think this tells the fans where Uncle Bobs heart lies.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2576495

Bottom half of the league. Texans have obviously not raised prices when others did. Next.

the fact we have never gone for one impact FA. (Not One)


The Texans also signed former Dolphins offensive tackle Todd Wade on Wednesday. Wade, 27, started for Miami in his first four NFL seasons and likely will replace Greg Randall in Houston.

He agreed to a six-year, $30 million deal, including a $10 million signing bonus.
http://fantasy.sportingnews.com/nfl/articles/20040303/528926.html

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=Nfl&leaguenum=&id=2223

CONTRACT INFO: 3/11/2006: Signed a five-year, $26.5 million contract.

So there's two. Next.



Come on Uncle Bob spend the money.



Well this is actually just to point out a recurring theme with your posts lately. While we get the picture, you're not happy about getting your pretty-darn-cheap-by-NFL-standards season tickets, trying to say that McNair plays a big role in the Texans roster moves and coaching decisions without providing substantial proof and evidence is what some people would call "talking out of your ass".

See I include facts and other reading material in my posts so I'm feeling that I'm adding something maleable, and not just, you know, talking out my ass.

BTW, I love the subtle jab you take at my username, because you know, it's relevant.

steelbtexan
02-14-2009, 10:46 PM
Todd Wade was a major impact signing LOL. He wasn't a highly rated FA. Go back & look at where he was rated in his FA class.

Just because the Texans have signed players to big money contracts doesn't mean they are good. We have never signed a top tier FA. We have paid top tier money to lesser players but we have never tried to sign the Samuels, Clements, Haynesworth or Peppers of the world. Instead we have signed the Wades, Greenwoods, Weavers of the world.

I would rather spend money on one top tier FA than sign five guys like Reeves Green Greenwood etc. That is just my prefrence.

In terms of raising ticket prices I dont care where we rank in the league. I just think it is fundamentally wrong to raise ticket prices in this economic enviornment. Other teams my have raised their ticket prices before the downturn in the economy. That doesn't mean that Uncle Bob should now.

I love your username. You could ask anybody that knows me & they will tell you that I am alot of things but subtle is not one of them.

We probably would get along well sitting around shooting the crap watching a game. I know you would make me lagh. LOL

b0ng
02-15-2009, 12:05 AM
Todd Wade was a major impact signing LOL. He wasn't a highly rated FA. Go back & look at where he was rated in his FA class.

Just because the Texans have signed players to big money contracts doesn't mean they are good. We have never signed a top tier FA. We have paid top tier money to lesser players but we have never tried to sign the Samuels, Clements, Haynesworth or Peppers of the world. Instead we have signed the Wades, Greenwoods, Weavers of the world.

I would rather spend money on one top tier FA than sign five guys like Reeves Green Greenwood etc. That is just my prefrence.

In terms of raising ticket prices I dont care where we rank in the league. I just think it is fundamentally wrong to raise ticket prices in this economic enviornment. Other teams my have raised their ticket prices before the downturn in the economy. That doesn't mean that Uncle Bob should now.

I love your username. You could ask anybody that knows me & they will tell you that I am alot of things but subtle is not one of them.

We probably would get along well sitting around shooting the crap watching a game. I know you would make me lagh. LOL

You're also going to have to throw in the fact that for the first 5 years of the Texans existence they have pretty much been looked at as a laughing stock by other teams players. We made a run at Orlando Pace while he was using us as leverage. The Texans name has been thrown into a few hats for high caliber players but they just wanted to go elsewhere. I believe though that as long as Rick Smith is the GM, this is going to be something that people will ***** about ad nauseum because his style of free agency is to hit with the draft and sign role players. After his first off season of watching a lot of guys get signed to medium and low contracts, I relegated myself to never being a big player in free agency which is fine by me. Philly fans piss and moan about the same thing while their team goes to the NFCCG almost every other year.

The economy is in the crapper on a national level, but at the same time, how hard has it hit you? I work for a software company on the NW side and really, aside from lower gas prices, I haven't had my wallet change much over the past year. I guess what I'm really saying is that football is pretty much a luxury product and a price increase might dissuade some fans from renewing their season tickets, the waitlist is long enough that McNair probably doesn't see it as a real big problem. It might suck if season tickets are now just out of some fans range, but I've never let that fact that I can't afford season tickets make me think that McNair is a cheapskate.

I'll just ask a random question here, when was the last time a Texan player was let go because their contract demands were too much and they would rather let them walk for no good reason at all (Also, being old and washed up is a good reason)? Aaron Glenn maybe? I don't know.

Also, I never laugh when I shoot the crap, my aim gets thrown off.

The Pencil Neck
02-15-2009, 02:25 AM
I would rather spend money on one top tier FA than sign five guys like Reeves Green Greenwood etc. That is just my prefrence.


You can prefer that all day long. But it doesn't change the fact that you can't sign someone who doesn't want to play for you. Up until the coming of Smithiak, no one wanted to play for us. No one who was any good or who wanted to win wanted to come here. You would have had to have taken the best offer on the table from another team and almost double the offer to get them to come here.

Since the coming of Smithiak, we've been getting our cap number back to a healthy state after years of C&C suckage. And even then, we did go out and try to get some guys. The Schaub deal, even though it wasn't in FA, was a big deal. That was a major feather in our cap. Some people on this board have tried to talk bad about that signing and say that Schaub was a career backup, blah blah blah... but that doesn't change the fact that several teams went after him and WE got him.

In free agency, we got Ahman Green. And that didn't work out. But he was the cream of the running back FA class that year. He was considered by many to be a better pick up than Jamal Lewis or Lamont Jordan (iirc). And we only got him because of Sherman. If Sherman hadn't been here, he would have gone somewhere else.

But I basically look at it this way... we may finally be in a position to do that this year. We may finally be in a position where a player could look at us and say, "Hey. I like what I see there. I want to play with that team." But prior to this year, I don't think that's been the case.

dalemurphy
02-15-2009, 06:39 AM
Todd Wade was a major impact signing LOL. He wasn't a highly rated FA. Go back & look at where he was rated in his FA class.

Just because the Texans have signed players to big money contracts doesn't mean they are good. We have never signed a top tier FA. We have paid top tier money to lesser players but we have never tried to sign the Samuels, Clements, Haynesworth or Peppers of the world. Instead we have signed the Wades, Greenwoods, Weavers of the world.

I would rather spend money on one top tier FA than sign five guys like Reeves Green Greenwood etc. That is just my prefrence.

In terms of raising ticket prices I dont care where we rank in the league. I just think it is fundamentally wrong to raise ticket prices in this economic enviornment. Other teams my have raised their ticket prices before the downturn in the economy. That doesn't mean that Uncle Bob should now.

I love your username. You could ask anybody that knows me & they will tell you that I am alot of things but subtle is not one of them.

We probably would get along well sitting around shooting the crap watching a game. I know you would make me lagh. LOL

Again, your argument is very unfocused. Once again, we are attacking your assertion that Bob McNair is cheap and overly concerned with making money. Like I said, there is plenty to criticize about the organization. Certainly, Casserly's personnel decisions rank up there very high. Todd Wade, A.Weaver are two examples of McNair's willingness to spend in free agency.

Second, regarding the raising of the ticket prices. If you don't care that we are near the bottom of the league in ticket prices, then clearly you don't believe that McNair is one of the more selfish/money-driven lawyers. Now, you assert that your only issue is the timing of the increase. So, your issue is one of process and public relations and it's actually not about greed, right?
Well, I'd like you to show me your previous email in 2003-2005 where you were praising McNair for his low ticket prices and decision not to raise them in the midst of a strong economy.

steelbtexan
02-15-2009, 11:47 AM
Bong: You are right I just noticed that Philly signed Samuel & made the NFC champ game. New England signed Moss & almost went undefeated.

Our business is doing very well & if you would like to go to a game next year PM me & I will give you a ticket.

TPN: This used to not be a great place for FA's to play, but times are changing. Mr. McNair is going to have to step up with wallet in hand. The majority on this board think he will. We shall see

DM: You are correct I dont like the timing of the increase. I just think it keeps the average hardworking Joe from being able to buy season tickets. It creates a corporate type fan base. This isn't good for the Texans in the long term IMO. Maybe that's the way that Mr. McNair wants it. People in the bullpen & other sections have been complaining about ushers asking them to sit down & not make to much noise. It's a football game & I thought people were supposed to make as much noise as possible.

The only year that ticket prices hav not been raised was after 2-14. I'm sure they wanted to raise them that year also but they knew there would a season ticket holder mutiny.

I may be wrong on this topic. LOL

This remains to be seen.

HJam72
02-15-2009, 01:00 PM
The Texans would like to announce that all future tickets must be purchased with gold bullion (or diamonds (no "zirconias" please)). Thank you. :tiphat:

steelbtexan
02-15-2009, 03:06 PM
Lol

ChampionTexan
02-15-2009, 04:35 PM
My point is that its a soft cap right now with the uncapped year. You must realize that the uncapped year is a certainty. It isn't up for debate. The only thing that is up for debate is how they are going to handle the transition to the next deal.

According to the following, it is up for debate!

Now that NFL owners have voted unanimously to end their agreement with the players' union in 2011, they still have all of 2008 and 2009 to negotiate a new CBA before the "trigger" points that are in place to encourage negotiations would fire and things wouldn't be as we know them today.

LINK (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80864e15&template=with-video&confirm=true)

Please either provide a link which says something has changed, or stop saying it's a foregone conclusion that 2010 is uncapped. It's absolutely possible it's uncapped, and it may very well even be likely, but certain and unavoidable - I think not.

steelbtexan
02-15-2009, 08:46 PM
The NFLPA does't have a president. I dont think they are going to be able to elect a new president & reach an agreement on a new CBA within 9 months.

The NFLPA is fighting like cats and dogs over who is going to be their new president. There appears to be a split. One side wants Troy Vincent, the other side wants Trace Armstrong.

WesmanTexanfan
02-15-2009, 08:51 PM
could....try WILL get the francise tag, if he doesnt then i dont see what they see...

drewmar74
02-17-2009, 09:54 AM
Looks like Dunta may not get tagged after all.

Per McClain's latest chat:

They're negotiating. He could be franchised, but I don't think they'll do that. They'll either sign him to a long-term deal or he'll be gone. I'm hearing he wants the $23 mil that Chris Gamble was guaranteed and they're offering in the neighborhood of $18 or $19. Andre Johnson got $15 two years ago. Mario got $26.3, I believe. Either way, Dunta will get the second-most guaranteed money in franchise history if he re-signs.

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/02/join_the_monday_nfl_combine_ch.html#comments

But he goes on to say that he thinks that he gets signed w/o the tag being used.

I think in the end both sides will compromise and meet in the middle and Dunta will get an offer of $20 mil guaranteed

b0ng
02-17-2009, 10:05 AM
Looks like Dunta may not get tagged after all.

Per McClain's latest chat:

They're negotiating. He could be franchised, but I don't think they'll do that. They'll either sign him to a long-term deal or he'll be gone. I'm hearing he wants the $23 mil that Chris Gamble was guaranteed and they're offering in the neighborhood of $18 or $19. Andre Johnson got $15 two years ago. Mario got $26.3, I believe. Either way, Dunta will get the second-most guaranteed money in franchise history if he re-signs.

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/02/join_the_monday_nfl_combine_ch.html#comments

I can't believe that they wouldn't use the tag on him. It's not like they are saving it for... I can't even think of a name.

Mailman
02-17-2009, 10:09 AM
I can't believe that they wouldn't use the tag on him. It's not like they are saving it for... I can't even think of a name.

Yeah, that McClain comment makes no sense at all. If you're willing to extend him for that kind of money, why would you let him walk instead of tagging him for ten mill this year?

TimeKiller
02-17-2009, 10:18 AM
Because him being worth 10 mil for one year is a questionable decision to make? It would be awesome to know he was worth it...but...nobody knows for sure

Mailman
02-17-2009, 10:25 AM
Because him being worth 10 mil for one year is a questionable decision to make? It would be awesome to know he was worth it...but...nobody knows for sure

I think he's absolutely worth it. If the front office questions whether he's worth big money like that, one wouldn't expect the team to make the long-term offer McClain mentions in his blog.

GP
02-17-2009, 11:17 AM
Yeah, that McClain comment makes no sense at all. If you're willing to extend him for that kind of money, why would you let him walk instead of tagging him for ten mill this year?

Because (perhaps) Bob McNair is going to be The Good Guy (again) and NOT use the tag on Dunta because of the many years of good, solid, loyal service from Dunta to the Texans and their fans.

Most players don't like getting tagged. It restricts them. Behind closed doors, if Dunta has wishes to explore a move to another team, then he and his agent might have met with Bob and politely asked him to NOT franchise Dunta. If you can meet the dollar amount, fine. But don't leverage the tag against my client (so to speak). Let's remember that we caved into David Carr's request for an outright release when we were trying to find a trade partner (of course, there might have been ZERO trade offers, too). I think Bob McNair has a soft spot for some players, which is natural.

I can totally see that as a possible reason why he's not tagged. Dunta wants more money, agents always want more money, the player unions always want their guys going after a bump up in pay. If The Texans can't meet dunta's dollar amount, and if Dunta feels froggy, he's going to jump to another team.

He's been in a love-hate relationship with this team, mostly due to the years and years of the David Carr era, and I wouldn't put it past him to think he is due a new start somewhere. And I wouldn't blame him. Just as I wouldn't blame AJ for leaving, either. Two "quality" guys who have stuck out some very mediocre seasons in Houston.

FYI: I know I am speculating, OK? Just reminding those who cannot distinguish speculation from cold-hard fact. We're in the off-season. There's Texans news at a glacial pace right now, so this is the best we have: Pondering on what MIGHT be going on behind the scenes.

Mr teX
02-17-2009, 11:19 AM
we're already short on quality players on the defense, i can't imagine why they would play with the idea of letting him get away unless they are leaning towards going CB in the 1st round of the draft. Even still, i can't see why they would play with the idea of letting our best player in the secondary get away in favor of a rookie CB who's an unknown commodity as far as producing in the NFL. Just pay him.

Mailman
02-17-2009, 11:23 AM
Because (perhaps) Bob McNair is going to be The Good Guy (again) and NOT use the tag on Dunta because of the many years of good, solid, loyal service from Dunta to the Texans and their fans.

Most players don't like getting tagged. It restricts them. Behind closed doors, if Dunta has wishes to explore a move to another team, then he and his agent might have met with Bob and politely asked him to NOT franchise Dunta.

I can totally see that as a possible reason why he's not tagged. Dunta wants more money, agents always want more money, the player unions always want their guys going after a bump up in pay. If The Texans can't meet dunta's dollar amount, and if Dunta feels froggy, he's going to jump to another team.

He's been in a love-hate relationship with this team, mostly due to the years and years of the David Carr era, and I wouldn't put it past him to think he is due a new start somewhere. And I wouldn't blame him. Just as I wouldn't blame AJ for leaving, either. Two "quality" guys who have stuck out some very mediocre seasons in Houston.

FYI: I know I am speculating, OK? Just reminding those who cannot distinguish speculation from cold-hard fact. We're in the off-season. There's Texans news at a glacial pace right now, so this is the best we have: Pondering on what MIGHT be going on behind the scenes.

You make good points, but if the team was willing to let him go elsewhere, why not a tag and trade? The team has to consider its interests, too. Letting a player like Robinson walk without getting anything in return would be very stupid.

Mailman
02-17-2009, 11:23 AM
Just pay him.

Yep. Pay the man.

GP
02-17-2009, 11:36 AM
You make good points, but if the team was willing to let him go elsewhere, why not a tag and trade? The team has to consider its interests, too. Letting a player like Robinson walk without getting anything in return would be very stupid.

More speculation coming your way: Because Bob has a soft spot for certain players, guys like David Carr and Mario Williams (remember the sit-down about illegal drag racing?), and I would bet that Dunta falls into that category. Dunta Robinson is as much a "face of this team" as is anybody else.

Therefore, it's not too hard to theorize that Dunta is leveraging that stuff against Bob. Our owner is considered a gentleman. I can easily see him putting silly things such as "being more competitive on defense" to the back burner when it comes to the issue of being a gentleman about this sort of thing.

I agree with your point: Letting a player like Robinson walk without getting anything in return would be very stupid.

I have a feeling that that's exactly what is going to happen. Dunta's going to be allowed to shop around, and Texans FO will hope nobody is interested enough to pay Dunta what Dunta wants.

Vonta Leach, when the Giants wanted him from us, was a case where we protected a guy from leaving the team. What was Leach going to do? Nothing. Things are soooo much different when you ask yourself "What if this had been Dunta getting interest from another team?"

That's my take on it.

Mailman
02-17-2009, 11:57 AM
More speculation coming your way: Because Bob has a soft spot for certain players, guys like David Carr and Mario Williams (remember the sit-down about illegal drag racing?), and I would bet that Dunta falls into that category. Dunta Robinson is as much a "face of this team" as is anybody else.

Therefore, it's not too hard to theorize that Dunta is leveraging that stuff against Bob. Our owner is considered a gentleman. I can easily see him putting silly things such as "being more competitive on defense" to the back burner when it comes to the issue of being a gentleman about this sort of thing.

I agree with your point: Letting a player like Robinson walk without getting anything in return would be very stupid.

I have a feeling that that's exactly what is going to happen. Dunta's going to be allowed to shop around, and Texans FO will hope nobody is interested enough to pay Dunta what Dunta wants.



Ah, I see. This makes sense and is probably exactly what the team is betting on.

Best case scenario: Dunta agrees to a contract extension before the free agency period begins.

Worst case scenario: Dunta tests the market and gets a big offer from another team

Middle scenario: The Texans engender some good will on Dunta's part by not tagging him and letting him test the market only for him to recognize that the team made him a very good offer, one that he should probably accept.

b0ng
02-17-2009, 12:11 PM
More speculation coming your way: Because Bob has a soft spot for certain players, guys like David Carr and Mario Williams .

I really think Bob is just a more hands off owner. He may dictate what kind players he wants in the organization, but that seems like the rest of it is handled by his GM.

Just my thoughts really.

TheRealJoker
02-17-2009, 12:17 PM
Only way I could see us not tagging Dunta and letting him walk without compensation would be if we were willing to spend the money to sign Assamougha. The latter is something I would see as very unlikely considering I doubt we're willing to spend the record breaking money on one player.

This is why I see Dunta being a Texan next year, if he doesn't resign outright he'll get the tag. This is a do or die year for Kubiak and he's not gonna start next season with Jacques Reeves as his # 1 CB along with a cast of unproven and/or inconsistent CBs.

TimeKiller
02-17-2009, 12:40 PM
He's been in a love-hate relationship with this team, mostly due to the years and years of the David Carr era, and I wouldn't put it past him to think he is due a new start somewhere. And I wouldn't blame him. Just as I wouldn't blame AJ for leaving, either. Two "quality" guys who have stuck out some very mediocre seasons in Houston.
I highly doubt his time has been spent here without once thinking, "Man, what if I could play in _________ , that would be great!"

but if he is thinking of leaving this team now he's....weird. Who puts so much effort into building something and leaves it on the table when it resembles something complete? Especially one who has his "heart and soul" embedded in it?

Furthermore, I can't see why he would be so adamantly opposed to being tagged. Hell, make the bank for a year to re-prove you deserve that big contract (be it here or elsewhere) while the Texans prove they are a team on the upswing. Worst case scenario is bank, find out this team isn't really improving and then leave.

If he just wants the garaunteed money...give him 23 mil then...and an extra year or two....

HOU-TEX
02-17-2009, 01:12 PM
I might get flamed for this, but if the two sides can't come to an agreement I say let Dunta test the waters. I'm willing to bet no team will make an offer as high as the Texans probably have. As long as Dunta would allow the Texans to match if the offer is higher. And if no team offers him a better deal then it should fall back on the last deal offered by the Texans.

Not sure that makes sense or not. I'm tired today. :)

Thoughts?

feebleminded
02-17-2009, 01:27 PM
I might get flamed for this, but if the two sides can't come to an agreement I say let Dunta test the waters. I'm willing to bet no team will make an offer as high as the Texans probably have. As long as Dunta would allow the Texans to match if the offer is higher. And if no team offers him a better deal then it should fall back on the last deal offered by the Texans.

Not sure that makes sense or not. I'm tired today. :)

Thoughts?

If this is the direction that this is really going to go, then why wouldnt they use the transition tag on him? The problem with the transition tag recently is that it has let the new signing teams put "poison pill" provisions in the offer. If this is truly a case of him wanting to be a Texan while at the same time letting Dunta determine his market value with a right to match, then this may be the way this goes. I personally think they sign him before the free agency period starts.

drewmar74
02-17-2009, 01:43 PM
I can see both sides of the argument here.

Resign Dunta and keep a vocal locker room leader and a CB who will play good hard-nosed D. But are we going to have to overpay for him? Do we really want to sink $20-23 million into a player who still is somewhat of an unknown commodity after that horrible injury in 07?

OR

Let Dunta walk if his asking price is too high. But if Dunta is consistently showing up as one of the most sought after FA CB's out there (right behind Nnmadi Aso-whatever), then who are we going to replace him with? :thinking: A rookie?

It's a hell of a spot that the Texans coaches and management find themselves in. I don't envy them having to make that call.

Heck, for that matter, its a tough spot for Dunta. He's part of a franchise that is really looking to have turned the corner (in my opinion, anyway) and he can get decent money for staying put. On the other hand, he can translate his "sought after" status into more money but he might end up somewhere like Detroit.

idonno:

Me, I'm hoping that he stays and that the Texans can meet him in the middle price-wise.

Mr teX
02-17-2009, 01:48 PM
If this is the direction that this is really going to go, then why wouldnt they use the transition tag on him? The problem with the transition tag recently is that it has let the new signing teams put "poison pill" provisions in the offer. If this is truly a case of him wanting to be a Texan while at the same time letting Dunta determine his market value with a right to match, then this may be the way this goes. I personally think they sign him before the free agency period starts.

the problem with that is all it takes is 1 owner to throw out something obscene (dan snyder ) & his market value is set. this might be more than he's holding out for now 7 could wind up costing the texans more than what he's asking for now.

Mr teX
02-17-2009, 01:50 PM
I can see both sides of the argument here.

Resign Dunta and keep a vocal locker room leader and a CB who will play good hard-nosed D. But are we going to have to overpay for him? Do we really want to sink $20-23 million into a player who still is somewhat of an unknown commodity after that horrible injury in 07?

OR

Let Dunta walk if his asking price is too high. But if Dunta is consistently showing up as one of the most sought after FA CB's out there (right behind Nnmadi Aso-whatever), then who are we going to replace him with? :thinking: A rookie?

It's a hell of a spot that the Texans coaches and management find themselves in. I don't envy them having to make that call.

Heck, for that matter, its a tough spot for Dunta. He's part of a franchise that is really looking to have turned the corner (in my opinion, anyway) and he can get decent money for staying put. On the other hand, he can translate his "sought after" status into more money but he might end up somewhere like Detroit.

idonno:

Me, I'm hoping that he stays and that the Texans can meet him in the middle price-wise.

if im not mistaken, the deal on the table is middle price wise. anybody know who his agent is?

feebleminded
02-17-2009, 01:52 PM
the problem with that is all it takes is 1 owner to throw out something obscene (dan snyder ) & his market value is set. this might be more than he's holding out for now 7 could wind up costing the texans more than what he's asking for now.

Totally agree, I guess the point was that if they are going to let him test the market to determine his value, then do it with the transition tag instead of a gentleman's agreement.

drewmar74
02-17-2009, 01:55 PM
if im not mistaken, the deal on the table is middle price wise. anybody know who his agent is?

I heard it was Texan Bill......

ChampionTexan
02-17-2009, 01:55 PM
I might get flamed for this, but if the two sides can't come to an agreement I say let Dunta test the waters. I'm willing to bet no team will make an offer as high as the Texans probably have. As long as Dunta would allow the Texans to match if the offer is higher. And if no team offers him a better deal then it should fall back on the last deal offered by the Texans.

Not sure that makes sense or not. I'm tired today. :)

Thoughts?

I pretty much agree with you, and truly believe that Dunta's worth more to the Texans than any other NFL team. Comments in this thread have referred to the fact that we'd be losing our best player in the secondary, and I think many of us believe he's brings intangibles, that others don't.

If he goes to a legitimate contender, there's a good chance he's no longer the best player in the secondary, particularly given that he's still in the process of coming off of a major injury. Also, the value of the intangibles is mitigated if he's stepping into a brand new situation, and brings a history of never playing on a team that finished above .500. I know that's not all he brings to the table, but I think it's what differentiates his value to the Texans as compared to the rest of the NFL.

Still, NFL history is littered with guys who left because they were lowballed by their old team, or overpaid by their new one.

drewmar74
02-17-2009, 01:56 PM
Still, NFL history is littered with guys who left because they were lowballed by their old team, or overpaid by their new one.


And rarely does the latter work out well for the overpaying party.

b0ng
02-17-2009, 02:16 PM
If dunta hits FA I can tell you right now he'll be the best CB on the market (Aso will get franchised last minute).

El Tejano
02-17-2009, 02:43 PM
He's probably asking to not be franchised becasue he knows how much spending money The Texans have. I say tag him, especially if this deal ends up meaning you can't shore up some depth areas for the team or even get a starter because his deal is so big.

GP
02-17-2009, 02:48 PM
Ah, I see. This makes sense and is probably exactly what the team is betting on.

Best case scenario: Dunta agrees to a contract extension before the free agency period begins.

Worst case scenario: Dunta tests the market and gets a big offer from another team

Middle scenario: The Texans engender some good will on Dunta's part by not tagging him and letting him test the market only for him to recognize that the team made him a very good offer, one that he should probably accept.

Well, if that's the way it's handled...it's nothing short of gambling, IMO. There are some teams who I think would definitely want a guy like Dunta Robinson on their team, even with his prior injury.

Desparate teams do desparate things.

I expected the Texans to tag Dunta, admitting that they wanted him one more year AND with considerable compensation if he still walks away.

This is shaping up to be a gamble, IMO, by the Texans management.

Mailman
02-17-2009, 02:52 PM
He's probably asking to not be franchised becasue he knows how much spending money The Texans have. I say tag him, especially if this deal ends up meaning you can't shore up some depth areas for the team or even get a starter because his deal is so big.

My gut instinct tells me it's partly about the money but mostly about the acknowledgment of the kind of player he is and his desire to be wooed. He'll get paid regardless, but franchising him could sour him on the organization. The front office has its finger on the pulse so I trust they know what they're doing wrt Dunta's mindset. I can't imagine they'd take the risk of letting him walk without anything in return unless they had a good idea that either 1) their offer is the best; and/or 2) Dunta wants to play for this organization but wants to be wined and dined first.

GP
02-17-2009, 02:59 PM
I really think Bob is just a more hands off owner. He may dictate what kind players he wants in the organization, but that seems like the rest of it is handled by his GM.

Just my thoughts really.

My main reasoning, on this subject, is that Bob desired to keep David Carr for $8 million for one more year JUST to see of Kubiak could indeed turn him around. There's no question that Dunta, at worst, still brings a fairly solid set of skills to the defense each game. How much more would McNair be inclined to keep Dunta a Texans?

Although Dunta is not an ooverall #1 pick, at the QB position, he is still a very valuable piece of this team (and not just as a CB, but also as a mainstay on a defense that he and DeMeco have been holding together).

I can see that Rick Smith is probably getting more slack than he had when he first came here. but I somehow doubt that Dunta Robinson's future as a Texans player rests in the hands of just Kubiak and Smith.

I actually think that it's THIS sort of deal that causes Bob to jump into the fray and get involved from his ownership standpoint with player personnel.

I can see him having a pretty important hand in what's going down with Dunta Robinson. Now, if it's any of the other 50+ players on the roster that's considering walking...I see him poking his nose into it ever-so-slightly but not with the vigor that you would with a David Carr/Matt Schaub, or AJ, or Mario.

What sucks is that some desparate team out there can throw insane dough at Dunta, and it puts our backs against the wall. Which is why tagging Dunta makes the most sense: You gotta' get something for him, no matter what.

What's funny is that I only see a desparate team signing Dunta as long as there are no high-value compensation obstacles in place. But if we slap the ultimate tag on him? Nobody will (A) Pay him a lot of money, and (B) Give up the compensatory picks that's part of the deal.

While he might be at a cross-roads in his own career, as well as his value to us as a player on the Texans, I think we ought to tag him.

GP
02-17-2009, 03:07 PM
My gut instinct tells me it's partly about the money but mostly about the acknowledgment of the kind of player he is and his desire to be wooed. He'll get paid regardless, but franchising him could sour him on the organization. The front office has its finger on the pulse so I trust they know what they're doing wrt Dunta's mindset. I can't imagine they'd take the risk of letting him walk without anything in return unless they had a good idea that either 1) their offer is the best; and/or 2) Dunta wants to play for this organization but wants to be wined and dined first.

Yep.

It's human nature, after all you've done for a company, that you desire to see just how much you're wanted.

Nothing hurts more than to pop off to your boss that the company down the street wants to hire you away....and your boss shrugs his shoulders and says "Oh. OK. See ya!" You'd like to see your boss pull you into the office and say, "Wow. Well, are you serious about it? Is there anything we're not doing right, or can you give me some ideas on how to keep you here?"

I think we can tag Dunta and STILL make him see the value in it: (1) You're only here one more year, (2) You're going to make the bucks, and (3) Some team might still be willing to steal you away from us...and we're cool with that. As long as it's done with an attitude of "You're being franchised because you mean that much to our team. We don't want to lose you. We think we can show you that this next season has great things lined up for the Texans," etc., then I think he's the type who would understand.

But, yeah, tagging him in an impersonal way (as if he's being punished for even THINKING about leaving) can do some harm.

Marcus
02-17-2009, 05:49 PM
I haven't read through the posts in this thread except for the last page, so forgive me if I'm just repeating others' thoughts.

Dunta Robinson, despite that fact that he might very well be the best corner on the market, is not worth overpaying him. Why? Because though, again, he might be the best on the FA market, isn't saying much in my opinion.

Just pay the man!

Pay him? Yes. Overpay him? NO!

I guess I could stomach them putting the franchise tag on him, for its only one year, but you pay him the market value on a long term contract, then that's overpayment, and he'll never live up to that overpayment. He never was a shutdown corner even before he got injured. And now, coming off a serious injury, he's asking for money that you would pay a shut down corner?

Again. NO!

b0ng
02-17-2009, 06:04 PM
My main reasoning, on this subject, is that Bob desired to keep David Carr for $8 million for one more year JUST to see of Kubiak could indeed turn him around. There's no question that Dunta, at worst, still brings a fairly solid set of skills to the defense each game. How much more would McNair be inclined to keep Dunta a Texans?

Although Dunta is not an ooverall #1 pick, at the QB position, he is still a very valuable piece of this team (and not just as a CB, but also as a mainstay on a defense that he and DeMeco have been holding together).

I can see that Rick Smith is probably getting more slack than he had when he first came here. but I somehow doubt that Dunta Robinson's future as a Texans player rests in the hands of just Kubiak and Smith.

I actually think that it's THIS sort of deal that causes Bob to jump into the fray and get involved from his ownership standpoint with player personnel.

I can see him having a pretty important hand in what's going down with Dunta Robinson. Now, if it's any of the other 50+ players on the roster that's considering walking...I see him poking his nose into it ever-so-slightly but not with the vigor that you would with a David Carr/Matt Schaub, or AJ, or Mario.

What sucks is that some desparate team out there can throw insane dough at Dunta, and it puts our backs against the wall. Which is why tagging Dunta makes the most sense: You gotta' get something for him, no matter what.

What's funny is that I only see a desparate team signing Dunta as long as there are no high-value compensation obstacles in place. But if we slap the ultimate tag on him? Nobody will (A) Pay him a lot of money, and (B) Give up the compensatory picks that's part of the deal.

While he might be at a cross-roads in his own career, as well as his value to us as a player on the Texans, I think we ought to tag him.

I can easily see him putting his hand in on David Carr (First player ever drafted, franchise QB, bringing in QB coach etc etc), but I don't know about Dunta. It's an obvious possibility that he is saying "Don't you franchise Dunta if he doesn't sign a deal you let him go", but boy howdy I would hope that he listens to a lot of what Rick Smith has to say before he puts out a bottom line like that.

At least we'll know by the end of the week what the scoop is.

Bulluck53
02-17-2009, 11:01 PM
Apologies, I don't want to read the whole thread. Any updates on the tag and Dunta?

The Pencil Neck
02-17-2009, 11:47 PM
Apologies, I don't want to read the whole thread. Any updates on the tag and Dunta?

Nope. Nothing yet.

GP
02-18-2009, 10:24 AM
If we had just gone 9-7 or 10-6, and if we had seen signs of a VERY competitive Texans team all season long, I can see why we would let Dunta walk.

Better teams can do this. Better teams can cast marginal players aside and draft or make free agency adjustments more easily.

I think we're still at a stage in our team's growth whereby we need a guy like Dunta. Someone said it best: I'd hate to be the guy(s) making the decision on how to deal with Dunta--Do you tag him? Do you let him test the waters? Do you let him walk?

But right now, I think we use the tag on him. Who else would we use it on? Probably not on anybody else. So use it if you have to. It's one year.

Polo
02-18-2009, 10:37 AM
I can easily see him putting his hand in on David Carr (First player ever drafted, franchise QB, bringing in QB coach etc etc), but I don't know about Dunta. It's an obvious possibility that he is saying "Don't you franchise Dunta if he doesn't sign a deal you let him go", but boy howdy I would hope that he listens to a lot of what Rick Smith has to say before he puts out a bottom line like that.

At least we'll know by the end of the week what the scoop is.

I would think Rick Smith would be the one being the most stingy with the money.

GP
02-18-2009, 10:47 AM
I would think Rick Smith would be the one being the most stingy with the money.

I think Rick Smith would lean toward the idea of letting Dunta test the market, and to possibly let Dunta walk away.

I would think McNair would be the guy meddling in such an idea, specifically because Dunta is one of those "faces" on our team.

Time will tell, eh?

threetoedpete
02-18-2009, 10:51 AM
What is the drop dead date the 27th ? Would you trade him straight up for Oakland's Micheal Bush ? Draft a CB early ? Do a sign and trade.

b0ng
02-18-2009, 10:59 AM
What is the drop dead date the 27th ? Would you trade him straight up for Oakland's Micheal Bush ? Draft a CB early ? Do a sign and trade.

I thought it was the 19th to franchise players

GP
02-18-2009, 11:00 AM
What is the drop dead date the 27th ? Would you trade him straight up for Oakland's Micheal Bush ? Draft a CB early ? Do a sign and trade.

I would personally drive Dunta to the airport and load his luggage if we got Michael Bush out of the deal. But that's not going to happen, IMO. I mean, I think the Raiders wouldn't let Bush go for Dunta. Do you?

I'd sign Dunta for one year, and draft CBs. I am not digging our CB stable right now. Seems very shaky. A lot of questions remaining, and some CBs that are on the verge of just flat out being a non-factor anymore.

But yeah, if I got Michael Bush for Dunta...I'd do that deal yesterday.

Brandon420tx
02-18-2009, 11:02 AM
That would suck for Dunta. I don't wish any Texan to have to play for the raiders

Polo
02-18-2009, 11:06 AM
I wouldn't trade Dunta for M. Bush.

Starting cornerbacks are, IMO, harder to comeby and more valuable that second string RB's.

I'd rather keep Dunta and draft a back-up RB.

Kaiser Toro
02-18-2009, 11:18 AM
If we tag him it costs us 10m next year against the cap. I believe we give him what he wants (22m bonus), but load it up front, essentially using what the 2009 tag cost will be for a sizeable piece of the guaranteed money (bonus). For example, make it Chris Gamble-esque - 6 year contract at 50m = and average 8.33m per year:

Year 1 (2009) - 2m contract + 9m bonus = 11m
Year 2 (2010) - 2m contract + 9m bonus = 11m
Year 3 (2011) - 3m contract + 5m bonus (bonus is eaten)= 8m
Year 4 (2012) - 6.67m contract
Year 5 (2013) - 6.67m contract
Year 6 (2014) - 6.67m contract

We would need to eat up that bonus, in my opinion, in the first three years of the contract due to the following - 2011 is when Mario and Slaton are FAs, Schaub & D. Brown become FAs in 2012, Winston in 2013. This would give us some flexibilty and be able to cut bait and run should Dunta have lingering issues. The math makes sense, it will be whether Mr. McNair wants to pony up the dollars to a fellow USC alum and team leader in my opinion.

Of course who knows what the new CBA will hold, should it even be extended, amended or blown up.

dalemurphy
02-18-2009, 11:27 AM
I am going to be really pissed if we let him freely go test the FA market. If they've decided/promised him not to franchise him then they need to transition tag him so they have some protection and ability to keep him.

I'm going to be very uneasy and concerned about the decision-making of this franchise if they let him walk!

signed,
the eternal optimist

Mailman
02-18-2009, 11:31 AM
What is the drop dead date the 27th ? Would you trade him straight up for Oakland's Micheal Bush ? Draft a CB early ? Do a sign and trade.

That's the day the free agency market opens. Teams have until tomorrow (Feb 19th) at 3 PM to declare their tagged players.

barrett
02-18-2009, 01:40 PM
See jack? Tomorrow at 3. Stop worrying. They are in the thick of the negotiations. Start worrying tomorrow at 2pm. That's a good time to worry. For now, just let the guys do their job. Tomorrow we can judge. Today we can speculate. How lame. Tomorrow, tomorrow, it's only a day a way....
Dun-ta will come out, tomorrow.
Bet McNairs last dollar, tomorrow.
He'll be signed.....

Just thinking about, tomorrow....

(to the theme from annie)

GP
02-18-2009, 01:40 PM
If we tag him it costs us 10m next year against the cap. I believe we give him what he wants (22m bonus), but load it up front, essentially using what the 2009 tag cost will be for a sizeable piece of the guaranteed money (bonus). For example, make it Chris Gamble-esque - 6 year contract at 50m = and average 8.33m per year:

Year 1 (2009) - 2m contract + 9m bonus = 11m
Year 2 (2010) - 2m contract + 9m bonus = 11m
Year 3 (2011) - 3m contract + 5m bonus (bonus is eaten)= 8m
Year 4 (2012) - 6.67m contract
Year 5 (2013) - 6.67m contract
Year 6 (2014) - 6.67m contract

We would need to eat up that bonus, in my opinion, in the first three years of the contract due to the following - 2011 is when Mario and Slaton are FAs, Schaub & D. Brown become FAs in 2012, Winston in 2013. This would give us some flexibilty and be able to cut bait and run should Dunta have lingering issues. The math makes sense, it will be whether Mr. McNair wants to pony up the dollars to a fellow USC alum and team leader in my opinion.

Of course who knows what the new CBA will hold, should it even be extended, amended or blown up.

No fair. You have experience with this stuff.

j/k

Thank you for the insight. Looks good to me. But does it match the thinking of the Powers-That-Be? Gonna' find out pretty soon.

dalemurphy
02-18-2009, 01:46 PM
See jack? Tomorrow at 3. Stop worrying. They are in the thick of the negotiations. Start worrying tomorrow at 2pm. That's a good time to worry. For now, just let the guys do their job. Tomorrow we can judge. Today we can speculate. How lame. Tomorrow, tomorrow, it's only a day a way....
Dun-ta will come out, tomorrow.
Bet McNairs last dollar, tomorrow.
He'll be signed.....

Just thinking about, tomorrow....

(to the theme from annie)


I'd like to add that even if they were to let Dunta go and replace him with Asomugha... it would be really sad as a fan to have him leave. He'd be the first player to leave the team that would really hurt as a fan, IMO. You know, I was disappointed when guys like AGlenn walked but Dunta's been a quality player that has had a lot to do with any of the limited success that we've had and he's been with the team for his entire career and almost since the inception of the franchise.

I've decided, we must re-sign him!!

dalemurphy
02-18-2009, 01:50 PM
If we tag him it costs us 10m next year against the cap. I believe we give him what he wants (22m bonus), but load it up front, essentially using what the 2009 tag cost will be for a sizeable piece of the guaranteed money (bonus). For example, make it Chris Gamble-esque - 6 year contract at 50m = and average 8.33m per year:

Year 1 (2009) - 2m contract + 9m bonus = 11m
Year 2 (2010) - 2m contract + 9m bonus = 11m
Year 3 (2011) - 3m contract + 5m bonus (bonus is eaten)= 8m
Year 4 (2012) - 6.67m contract
Year 5 (2013) - 6.67m contract
Year 6 (2014) - 6.67m contract

We would need to eat up that bonus, in my opinion, in the first three years of the contract due to the following - 2011 is when Mario and Slaton are FAs, Schaub & D. Brown become FAs in 2012, Winston in 2013. This would give us some flexibilty and be able to cut bait and run should Dunta have lingering issues. The math makes sense, it will be whether Mr. McNair wants to pony up the dollars to a fellow USC alum and team leader in my opinion.

Of course who knows what the new CBA will hold, should it even be extended, amended or blown up.


I like the idea but there is a problem with it. Front-loading a contract makes it very likely that a player will become dissatisfied with his contract and demand a new deal later. Particularly if the player has been in the league and paid well, holdouts can become a tool- or the threat of retirement. I know that looking at the contract as a whole, it would seem obnoxious. But, let's say that in 4 years contracts for top level talent are something like $15 million per year. If Dunta is playing at an elite level but getting only 40% of what other top players are getting, it would be a problem.

infantrycak
02-18-2009, 02:58 PM
I like the idea but there is a problem with it. Front-loading a contract makes it very likely that a player will become dissatisfied with his contract and demand a new deal later. Particularly if the player has been in the league and paid well, holdouts can become a tool- or the threat of retirement. I know that looking at the contract as a whole, it would seem obnoxious. But, let's say that in 4 years contracts for top level talent are something like $15 million per year. If Dunta is playing at an elite level but getting only 40% of what other top players are getting, it would be a problem.

The front load is already there with most contracts--the signing bonus. What I take KT to be saying is the accounting is front loaded more than usual by paying it out as roster bonuses. Don't see how that affects a renegotiation scenario.

Kaiser Toro
02-18-2009, 03:43 PM
I like the idea but there is a problem with it. Front-loading a contract makes it very likely that a player will become dissatisfied with his contract and demand a new deal later. Particularly if the player has been in the league and paid well, holdouts can become a tool- or the threat of retirement. I know that looking at the contract as a whole, it would seem obnoxious. But, let's say that in 4 years contracts for top level talent are something like $15 million per year. If Dunta is playing at an elite level but getting only 40% of what other top players are getting, it would be a problem.

I totally agree with what your saying, but this is solely an exercise based on upon what we know, and what is implied:
- Dunta had an awful injury in 2007
- Dunta is a leader on the field and in the locker room, he is a valued asset
- He and his agent want a Gamble like contract with ~22m guaranteed
- The Texans have money to play with
- The Texans are weak on defense and the new coordinator will need coaches on the field and leaders to convey the message
- McNair and Robinson are USC alums
- Dunta would like to be here
- We have some bog contracts coming up in 2011-2013 (I forgot to include Okoye in 2012, but not holding my breath)
- a Franchise tag will cost the Texans 9.96m in 2009

In the end, does Dunta want to be here at the cost that he and his agent floated? And if so, McNair will need to get his checkbook ready, accounting in order and hold the employee to his contract.

El Tejano
02-18-2009, 03:56 PM
So can we actually sign Robinson right now or do we have to first decide on the franchise tag?

infantrycak
02-18-2009, 04:00 PM
So can we actually sign Robinson right now or do we have to first decide on the franchise tag?

They could sign him today. Right now the Texans are the only team who can talk to him.

TheRealJoker
02-18-2009, 09:14 PM
Looks like Kelvin Hayden set the bar pretty dang high :(

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/18/cb-hayden-colts-strike-five-year-43-million-deal/

5 years 43 million 22.5 million guaranteed.

threetoedpete
02-18-2009, 10:37 PM
So is the end of the line for Marvin ?

Pretty shrewd move by Pollian. The fire boiling the frog just got turned up. 43 million. Y'all better love Robinson to death. I don't wanna see no bitchin' next fall if it don't work out and the sell the farm for him. I wonder how much John McClain is going to pitch in to help McNair out with the contract ?

eriadoc
02-18-2009, 10:54 PM
The fire boiling the frog just got turned up. 43 million. Y'all better love Robinson to death. I don't wanna see no bitchin' next fall if it don't work out and the sell the farm for him. I wonder how much John McClain is going to pitch in to help McNair out with the contract ?

I think he's worth taking a flier on for a one-season deal of about 10 mill. If it doesn't work out, then you know you tried with a player who's given his all and can be elite. I seriously don't think we'll get a CB of Robinson's caliber in free agency ... well, ever.

Now, this all comes fromt he viewpoint that I have, in that I think Robinson can become one of the best CBs in the game. He had very fluid hips, very good recovery speed, and pretty damn good ball skills. He also hits like a Mack truck. He was having a Pro Bowl season in '07 before he got injured. So the question really comes down to: Can he get back to what he was becoming pre-injury? I think the gamble on the upside is worth the franchise tag. In effect, the team would be gambling on the injury issue, rather than injury, performance, and sometimes attitude issues like they have with nearly every other FA they've ever signed.

I do not think a $23 million guarantee is a wise gamble, however.

Wolf
02-18-2009, 11:55 PM
Aj's take

Here we are on franchise tag eve, and not a creature was stirring - except for the crickets chirping in the Texans contract negotiation center.

I'm sure they're all very busy with contracts and combine and draft prep and stuff, but there's not exactly a lot of information coming out of Reliant Park these days.

But not all is quiet around the league.

The latest domino to fall was Colts cornerback Kelvin Hayden, who according to Adam Schefter, just received a new five-year, $43 million contract that includes $22.5 million in guaranteed money. Cha ching.

Just a few days ago, the Colts were talking about franchising Hayden.

Hayden's signing is certainly another (timely) benchmark for the Dunta Robinson negotiating team.

In November, the Panthers signed Chris Gamble to a six-year, $53 million contract that includes $23 million worth of guarantees.

I'm sure Dunta thinks he's worth every bit as much as Gamble and Hayden, even though he wasn't back to his pre-injury form by the end of the 2008 season.

Only time will tell if the Texans think the same. But time is getting very short.

Tomorrow at 3 p.m. CST is the deadline for teams to assign franchise tags to players that will otherwise become unrestricted free agents on February 27.

If the Texans don't tag Robinson tomorrow, then one of two things will happen:

1. The Texans will sign him to a new contract by the February 26th, or
2. He's gone.

I don't think Dunta will be back with the Texans once he gets out there and starts entertaining offers from other teams.


http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m2d18-Haydens-new-deal-another-benchmark-for-Texans-Robinson

DiehardChris
02-19-2009, 12:07 AM
Looks like Kelvin Hayden set the bar pretty dang high :(

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/18/cb-hayden-colts-strike-five-year-43-million-deal/

5 years 43 million 22.5 million guaranteed.

Ugh. That's not good news. Just another benchmark that I'm sure Dunta and his people think he's at least worth.

4Texans
02-19-2009, 10:46 AM
You had to figure it was coming.....

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6269456.html

texanfan2002114
02-19-2009, 10:47 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6269456.html

"After failing to agree on a long-term contract, the Texans decided to franchise cornerback Dunta Robinson today.

Robinson, who earned $2.4 million in 2008, will receive a one-year contract worth $9.957 million. "

WesmanTexanfan
02-19-2009, 10:47 AM
You had to figure it was coming.....

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6269456.html

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!! :thisbig:

:fans:

bckey
02-19-2009, 10:49 AM
Glad to hear it. I think this is our best option with Dunta. We get to see how he performs post injury before signing him long term.

Errant Hothy
02-19-2009, 10:49 AM
Smarter then letting him hit the market.

tedr
02-19-2009, 10:49 AM
I know they are now required to pay him just under $10M for next year. If they reach a long-term agreement, does that void the $10M amount for 2009 and would the new contract take over?

El Tejano
02-19-2009, 10:52 AM
I just want to know how Dunta feels about that. I'm thinking that they have been negotiating, so something has come up where they agreed to this or possibly we made a promise that if he performed well, we would pay him.

I'm also thinking we are seeing what our remaining cash is after FA.

InterestedJeff
02-19-2009, 10:53 AM
Thank God! I know he wanted a long term deal, and he still may get one. If we would of lost him it would of thrown off our entire offseason priorities. Plus, with this one year deal, Dunta will be going all out (not that he already doesnt). I'm so relieved to know Dunta will be back with us next season.

GO TEXANS!

Mailman
02-19-2009, 10:54 AM
Dear Dunta,

We love you. Please don't be mad.

Errant Hothy
02-19-2009, 10:54 AM
I know they are now required to pay him just under $10M for next year. If they reach a long-term agreement, does that void the $10M amount for 2009 and would the new contract take over?

I think so.

Dunta still has to sign the 1 year contract that the franchise tag generates, so I quess they coudl continue to negotiate and then Dunta sign a new long term deal.

Another first for the Texans (use of the franchise tag), if I'm not mistaken.

Specnatz
02-19-2009, 10:54 AM
I know they are now required to pay him just under $10M for next year. If they reach a long-term agreement, does that void the $10M amount for 2009 and would the new contract take over?

If he signs a contract then you go by the terms of the contract, the franchise tag is so a player does not become a FA and it just says there is a minimum the team can offer.

GP
02-19-2009, 10:56 AM
No team is going to give us TWO first round draft picks. So, we might as well not even start theorizing what teams will want to test us on acquiring Dunta. Had we not tagged Dunta, there would be several teams fighting for him. The two first rounders was the clincher.

Tagging him with the non-exclusive franchise tag just ensured that he will be playing for the Texans this season.

And, I will go ahead and predict right now that this will be Dunta's last season with the Texans. He's going to have to display a Pro Bowl season, with multiple interceptions and big-time stats across the board. He's going to have to be pretty doggone good to warrant top CB money after this season IMO.

This is one of those "Had To Do It" things, such as going to the dentist--You know it sucks, but it has to be done.

Let's see what he can do.

Malloy
02-19-2009, 10:57 AM
So our cap is at 30 mil now, lets see how many FAs mention as a possibility now :)

WolverineFan
02-19-2009, 10:57 AM
It works out for us either way. If someone picks him up then we get two 1st round picks. If not then we can workout a long term deal with him and keep him around.

WesmanTexanfan
02-19-2009, 10:57 AM
I don't understand this, "he was playing at a pro-bowl level before the injury" stuff. I think he was playing at an NFL starter level, but not pro-bowl level. I don't think he's ever been a pro-bowl corner. His coverage skills are very poor. He's our best tackler....... he use to hit like a Mack Truck, and he shut down the outside edge for any running back in the game......

That spells strong safety to me.

But, IMHO, if the Texans are close to giving him $20 million gauranteed, if that's what they think he is worth, I can't see them not closing the deal on $23 million.

If they are still at a stale mate, the Texans have got to be closer to $17 million.

we need corner backs and he is our best one, people dont throw to him and when they do he makes picks and tackles....

InterestedJeff
02-19-2009, 11:06 AM
we need corner backs and he is our best one, people dont throw to him and when they do he makes picks and tackles....

He did get picked on a lot more than he usually does last season. He lost his footing quite a few times, let a few recievers go deep on him and lost position more than he has in years past. With all that said, I love Dunta and am glad to have him back. I think this is a smart move by the Texans. Lets see how he performs this season. If he plays like one of the best in the league then we pay him. If it looks like he's still trying to get back to his old form then unfortunatly we will have to let him walk. :texflag:

GP
02-19-2009, 11:07 AM
we need corner backs and he is our best one, people dont throw to him and when they do he makes picks and tackles....

I think Thunderkyss has a point, but I also see the flip side of it: He's the best we got, and we don't need any more holes on defense right now.

Dunta will play here on more season, but he won't get a long-term deal unless he DOES become a Pro Bowl cornerback who has a huge statistical year this season.

El Tejano
02-19-2009, 11:10 AM
And, I will go ahead and predict right now that this will be Dunta's last season with the Texans. He's going to have to display a Pro Bowl season, with multiple interceptions and big-time stats across the board. He's going to have to be pretty doggone good to warrant top CB money after this season IMO.



Then you should also put in your prediction that if he plays like a top CB, he will most likely say peace to us and go get his money.

PapaL
02-19-2009, 11:10 AM
This is why we have a great FO. This is a smart business move.

Think you're worth top flight money long term?
Coming off injury?
Prove it. Put your play on the field in your check book.

It's all on you DRob. You're a fan favorite and a good player. Show us all you are top flight.

WesmanTexanfan
02-19-2009, 11:11 AM
He did get picked on a lot more than he usually does last season. He lost his footing quite a few times, let a few recievers go deep on him and lost position more than he has in years past. With all that said, I love Dunta and am glad to have him back. I think this is a smart move by the Texans. Lets see how he performs this season. If he plays like one of the best in the league then we pay him. If it looks like he's still trying to get back to his old form then unfortunatly we will have to let him walk

Im going to scratch most of what he did this year, Injurys effect your mental and physical games, so we will see next year whether he is worth long money or not.





I think Thunderkyss has a point, but I also see the flip side of it: He's the best we got, and we don't need any more holes on defense right now.

Dunta will play here on more season, but he won't get a long-term deal unless he DOES become a Pro Bowl cornerback who has a huge statistical year this season.

Hopefullt he will come out and wreck, he also provides some emotion to this team but hopefully someone else steps up to take the reigns when he leaves....

TEXANS84
02-19-2009, 11:14 AM
Dear Dunta,

We love you. Please don't be mad.

At 9 million dollars, I wouldn't be too upset.

Well, at least he didn't walk. We can still sign him to a long term contract, so no worries.

GP
02-19-2009, 11:16 AM
Then you should also put in your prediction that if he plays like a top CB, he will most likely say peace to us and go get his money.

No, we could always out-bid another team or match. But I think that's unlikely due to how the front office is handling things. The Casserly era was an era of errors: Giving guys a huge payday right out of the gate.

Dunta doesn't hate this team (I don't think). But there is a little bit of apprehension by the front office to just give the guy the bank, or to even allow him to leave without gettig something in return. I don't think Dunta is the type of person to hold that against the Texans front office.

It does stand a better chance of Dunta finding a bigger payday with another team IF we don't do a long-term deal with him.

I just don't think he's going to play to the level of warranting a HUGE payday. Maybe from some other team, but not from ours. So this will probably be a "going away" year for him, but not on bad terms.

Brandon420tx
02-19-2009, 11:23 AM
Dear Dunta,

We love you.

We need lots of signs like this at every home game.

HoustonFrog
02-19-2009, 11:23 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but even though the franchise tag in this case dictates the Texans get 2 #1s if another team offers and we don't match, doesn't it also mean that we can take trade offers overall and that it doesn't have to be 2 #1s?

Overall it would have been dumb if they didn't do this with him. He'll get around 9 mil for one year here and can test it and it gives us time to negotiate.

ChampionTexan
02-19-2009, 11:28 AM
No, we could always out-bid another team or match. But I think that's unlikely due to how the front office is handling things. The Casserly era was an era of errors: Giving guys a huge payday right out of the gate.

Dunta doesn't hate this team (I don't think). But there is a little bit of apprehension by the front office to just give the guy the bank, or to even allow him to leave without gettig something in return. I don't think Dunta is the type of person to hold that against the Texans front office.

It does stand a better chance of Dunta finding a bigger payday with another team IF we don't do a long-term deal with him.

I just don't think he's going to play to the level of warranting a HUGE payday. Maybe from some other team, but not from ours. So this will probably be a "going away" year for him, but not on bad terms.

As was said earlier, this is the first time the Texans have ever used the franchise tag, and my guess is they would love to strike a longer term deal, and take the franchise tag off Dunta. I'm guessing they didn't like having to use the tag in the first place, and if they can get it removed, they will.

If they can't reach a long-term deal, and Dunta performs at a pro-bowl level next season, and they still can't reach a long-term deal after next year, there's nothing keeping them from using the tag again for the 2010 season.

imatexan
02-19-2009, 11:36 AM
No way Dunta is worth what he is asking. Even pre-injury that would be almost laughable

Good player, but not top 5 or 20

Not top 20!?!?!?!?

Thats laughable, especially pre-injury!

infantrycak
02-19-2009, 11:37 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but even though the franchise tag in this case dictates the Texans get 2 #1s if another team offers and we don't match, doesn't it also mean that we can take trade offers overall and that it doesn't have to be 2 #1s?


What sometimes happens is the player negotiates an offer sheet with another team but doesn't sign it. That team then contacts the original team to see if a lower compensation package of picks can be negotiated. If the teams can't come to an agreement, the offer sheet gets torn up.

Errant Hothy
02-19-2009, 11:38 AM
Odd factoid from McClain's chat (ongoing):
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/02/join_the_thursday_nfl_combine.html

seen my story on the Texans franchising Dunta Robinson. Smart move. For a while I didn't think they'd do it because I thought they'd get him signed, and it would have cost them about $3 million more to franchise him than it would have to sign him to a five-year deal with about $23 million guaranteed.

TexanSam
02-19-2009, 11:41 AM
No, we could always out-bid another team or match. But I think that's unlikely due to how the front office is handling things. The Casserly era was an era of errors: Giving guys a huge payday right out of the gate.

Unless a team offers a guy a contract with poison pill clauses in it and the Texans deem it too expensive. LZ wrote about that in his blog a few days ago.

imatexan
02-19-2009, 11:43 AM
Woo glad we at least did something to keep him here!

Errant Hothy
02-19-2009, 11:47 AM
How much cap space does franchising Dunta eat up?

Anybody know?

WolverineFan
02-19-2009, 11:49 AM
How much cap space does franchising Dunta eat up?

Anybody know?

It's something like $9.7 mil I believe.

GP
02-19-2009, 11:55 AM
As was said earlier, this is the first time the Texans have ever used the franchise tag, and my guess is they would love to strike a longer term deal, and take the franchise tag off Dunta. I'm guessing they didn't like having to use the tag in the first place, and if they can get it removed, they will.

If they can't reach a long-term deal, and Dunta performs at a pro-bowl level next season, and they still can't reach a long-term deal after next year, there's nothing keeping them from using the tag again for the 2010 season.

I was under the impression you could not Franchise Tag a player two consecutive years, or is that only on the EXCLUSIVE tag itself?

I don't think Dunta would be happy with the non-exclusive tag being applied once more at the end of the season. We could do it. But I doubt it would be conducive to good relations with Dunta.

Just looking at the overall situation, I sense we're not very close to reaching what Dunta wants...hence the non-exclusive tag this season....and Dunta is going to have to come off his number in order for us to strike a long-term deal.

Otherwise, a long-term deal would have been arranged by now. That's my thinking, at least.

Getting tagged, IMO, says the Texans did not favor the numbers from Dunta's agent. All this does, IMO, is buy some time and prevent another team from walking away with Dunta (yet). Does anyone here realistically think that a long-term deal is going to be arranged? I think it's possible, but I think there's a better chance that this is it for Dunta as a Texans player.

Ole Miss Texan
02-19-2009, 11:56 AM
I was one that was skeptical of franchising Dunta. I think this could turn out really well though. If it was going to happen, using the non-exclusive tag is the best way to go. We all know about the draft picks if he signs an offer sheet and we don't match. I don't see that happening. Maybe we negotiate another deal if it comes to this, as mentioned a few posts up.

What the non-exclusive tag does for our front office is it gives us time. He's allowed to talk to other teams and see where he really sits in the market. It gives us more time to evaluate him and see him practice, play, etc. while he's "out searching" or even negotiating with us. I think once the two sides are close to a deal then the FO knows where they sit with dunta (injury-wise).

If nothin else, this gives us more time to evaluate him and negotiate a long term deal. If one is met, which I hope, I'll be willing to bet that much of the contract is "eaten" this season due to our Cap position. this depense how we're targeting other FAs though. But we've got some GREAT players on this team that will be coming up to be FAs in the next few years, so we've got to do as much saving now as we can allowing us more flexibility in resigning our guys in the future.

I sure hope Dunta can regain form!!! Wow, I'm excited for the season now!:texflag:

infantrycak
02-19-2009, 11:59 AM
I was under the impression you could not Franchise Tag a player two consecutive years, or is that only on the EXCLUSIVE tag itself?

You can be repeat franchised--example Terrell Suggs getting hit again this year. Players will sometimes negotiate prior to signing the franchise tender to not be franchised again--example Haynesworth can't be tagged this year because he negotiated a pro-bowl clause.

Ole Miss Texan
02-19-2009, 12:00 PM
I was under the impression you could not Franchise Tag a player two consecutive years, or is that only on the EXCLUSIVE tag itself?


I'm not sure about the exclusive tag in back to back years.

Cardinals franchised Dansby last year and this year (non-exclusive both years).

Ravens franchised Suggs last year and this year (non-exlucive last year, exclusive this year).

Edit: thanks Cak, beat me to it.

dalemurphy
02-19-2009, 12:05 PM
I'm not sure about the exclusive tag in back to back years.

Cardinals franchised Dansby last year and this year (non-exclusive both years).

Ravens franchised Suggs last year and this year (non-exlucive last year, exclusive this year).

Edit: thanks Cak, beat me to it.

You can repeat it as many times as you like. However, each year would be a 20% increase in salary. That's one reason why teams prefer not to do it more than one year. Next year, Dunta will cost $12 million to franchise, assuming we have that option with the collective bargaining situation.

Texecutioner
02-19-2009, 12:06 PM
well, as long as contracts aren't guaranteed, at least the players will be giving effort in the NFL, unlike MLB and NBA.

Amen to that. It's amazing how the other two leagues don't take notice to this and fight their unions to get their sports in this direction. It would makes the sport a lot more close to being incentive based types of contracts and is the key factor to why the NFL is as competitive and exciting as it is.

scourge
02-19-2009, 12:09 PM
Dunta has previously stated on radio shows that like most players, being franchised would not make him happy.

mattieuk
02-19-2009, 12:10 PM
I was under the impression you could not Franchise Tag a player two consecutive years, or is that only on the EXCLUSIVE tag itself?

I don't think Dunta would be happy with the non-exclusive tag being applied once more at the end of the season. We could do it. But I doubt it would be conducive to good relations with Dunta.

Just looking at the overall situation, I sense we're not very close to reaching what Dunta wants...hence the non-exclusive tag this season....and Dunta is going to have to come off his number in order for us to strike a long-term deal.

Otherwise, a long-term deal would have been arranged by now. That's my thinking, at least.

Getting tagged, IMO, says the Texans did not favor the numbers from Dunta's agent. All this does, IMO, is buy some time and prevent another team from walking away with Dunta (yet). Does anyone here realistically think that a long-term deal is going to be arranged? I think it's possible, but I think there's a better chance that this is it for Dunta as a Texans player.

Surely this buys us a season to see whether or not he is back to his full playing level from before the injury? Thats probably the most important thing here, that we can judge whether he will be good to sign to a large, long contract when he is back and fighting fit...

This seems like a very common sense kind of Texans move to me.

ArlingtonTexan
02-19-2009, 12:13 PM
Dunta has previously stated on radio shows that like most players, being franchised would not make him happy.

Most of them get over it. While he may have wanted the long-term 20 plus million guarantee, 1 year at nearly $10 million does not exactly suck even the world of professional athletics.

TEXANS84
02-19-2009, 12:15 PM
Dunta has previously stated on radio shows that like most players, being franchised would not make him happy.

Absolutely because one more injury like he had in Oakland and not only does it end his career, he wouldn't make 22 million in guarantees.

Hardcore Texan
02-19-2009, 12:16 PM
Glad you are still here with us D-Rob. You are my favorite Houston Texan.

Mailman
02-19-2009, 12:22 PM
This seems like a very common sense kind of Texans move to me.

Particularly in light of the fact that the Raiders are expected to lock up Asomugha to a long-term contract later today. If we hadn't tagged him he'd be the top CB on the open market.

dalemurphy
02-19-2009, 12:29 PM
Particularly in light of the fact that the Raiders are expected to lock up Asomugha to a long-term contract later today. If we hadn't tagged him he'd be the top CB on the open market.

I would be shocked if Asomugha signed a deal with the Raiders. His value is astronomical right now, Oakland is a bit against the cap, and Oakland is a joke of an organization with very little hope the next 3 years.

bah007
02-19-2009, 12:37 PM
I thought Asomugha was going to be franchised again this year?

badboy
02-19-2009, 12:39 PM
I really like DR and his attitude and leadership abilities. However, I try to leave feelings out of this. DR is not a pro bowl CB. He may be this season and just as well may not. If team can work a reasonable deal, fine. As for now he is a Texan for one more year. If another team buys him, we get a 1st this year and next. My question is IF he signs elsewhere, we have a pretty good package to consider moving up to get Jenkins who is intriguing. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=56880&draftyear=2009&genpos=CBOr we can use the extra 1st this season on a need and hope Bennett, Reeves and maybe Molden shine.

nunusguy
02-19-2009, 12:39 PM
I would be shocked if Asomugha signed a deal with the Raiders. His value is astronomical right now, Oakland is a bit against the cap, and Oakland is a joke of an organization with very little hope the next 3 years.

Everybody was saying exactly the same thing about the 'Phins not 6 months ago on the heels of their 1-15 record and then they proceed to get into the
playoff that Fall. Anybody can turn it all the way around in one offseason.
And few say the Raiders are without talent.

badboy
02-19-2009, 12:40 PM
I thought Asomugha was going to be franchised again this year?That's the expectation but I have seen nothing yet & I have been attentive.

Mailman
02-19-2009, 12:45 PM
Aso's contract is being reviewed by the league according to Jim Trotter. Supposedly it's a six-year deal with 26 million guaranteed over the first two years.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/02/19/raiders/index.html

HOU-TEX
02-19-2009, 12:47 PM
Everybody was saying exactly the same thing about the 'Phins not 6 months ago on the heels of their 1-15 record and then they proceed to get into the
playoff that Fall. Anybody can turn it all the way around in one offseason.
And few say the Raiders are without talent.

This might be true, but the Phins, Falcons and Ravens don't have Al Davis as an owner. Big difference.

barrett
02-19-2009, 12:52 PM
now that we can all sigh a collective sigh, how does this non deal as well as our other star players contracts effect the future of our cap situation? Are we going to get hit all at once with having to pay guys?

my records show:

Ryans 2009
Walter 2009
Pitts 2009
Dunta 2009 (if no deal is reached)
Daniels 2009

Leach 2010
Bennett 2010
Diles 2010

Williams 2011
Slaton 2011
Adibi 2011
Molden 2011

Schaub 2012
D. Brown 2012
Okoye 2012

Next year is going to be a very expensive year. Especially if we are still negotiating a long term contract with Dunta!

2010 looks like the cheapest year.

between Slaton and Williams 2011 is going to be a monster year.

We're entering new territory as a franchise that has talented players on a long term status that will get paid.


Weird huh?

I hope we continue to lock guys up with extensions before their contracts end like we did with Winston. I would especially like to see Open Daniels and Demeco Ryans solidified before the end of the season.

badboy
02-19-2009, 12:56 PM
Aso's contract is being reviewed by the league according to Jim Trotter. Supposedly it's a six-year deal with 26 million guaranteed over the first two years.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/02/19/raiders/index.htmlWell there you go. It is a reasonable contract and may help DR sign.

TheRealJoker
02-19-2009, 01:02 PM
Better to take the 9M hit now and find out he's not worth 23M guaranteed than to drop 23 M on him.

If he has a breakout year (like Haynesworth in 07) then i'd just as soon give him more than 23M. But the 9M hit now is the best thing for the situation imo. That injury is a career ender for most players. We still dont know what we've got in Dunta imo. He's got a year to prove one way or another if he's worth what he thinks he's worth.

bah007
02-19-2009, 01:15 PM
Asomugha apparently just signed a 3 year-$45 mil contract with the Raiders.

No link yet.

TheRealJoker
02-19-2009, 01:25 PM
Asomugha apparently just signed a 3 year-$45 mil contract with the Raiders.

No link yet.

http://blogs.nfl.com/category/adam-schefter/

"Asomugha signed a three-year deal that is worth a minimum of $45 million and could reach $50 million, a league source said.

Itís a complex contract that the NFL had to sift through and approve, and it has. The deal works like this:

The first two years, worth $28.5 million, are fully guaranteed. In the third year of the contract, if Oakland wants to keep Asomugha, it must pay him the average of the top five highest-paid quarterbacks in the game or $16.875 million ó whichever is greater. If the Raiders fail to pick up the option, Asomugha will become a free agent, with Oakland not having the ability to tag him again."

How can Oakland afford this AND Lechler after all the big money signings that didn't/haven't panned out a year ago? RE: Tommy Kelly highest DT contract ever, Javon Walker/Deangello Hall's big contracts as well.

Texecutioner
02-19-2009, 01:58 PM
I don't understand this, "he was playing at a pro-bowl level before the injury" stuff. I think he was playing at an NFL starter level, but not pro-bowl level. I don't think he's ever been a pro-bowl corner. His coverage skills are very poor. He's our best tackler....... he use to hit like a Mack Truck, and he shut down the outside edge for any running back in the game......

That spells strong safety to me.

But, IMHO, if the Texans are close to giving him $20 million gauranteed, if that's what they think he is worth, I can't see them not closing the deal on $23 million.

If they are still at a stale mate, the Texans have got to be closer to $17 million.

He wasn't at a pro bowl calibur level every single season, but I think you might need a memory refreshment on his rookie season which was his best. Look at his stats from that season, and I think you'll be fairly surprised. It was a crying shame that he wasn't selected to the pro bowl that season or receive rookie of the year on defense. Robinson was fantastic that season. The only reason that he didn't get the pro bowl was because he was a rookie.

buddyboy
02-19-2009, 02:05 PM
He wasn't at a pro bowl calibur level every single season, but I think you might need a memory refreshment on his rookie season which was his best. Look at his stats from that season, and I think you'll be fairly surprised. It was a crying shame that he wasn't selected to the pro bowl that season or receive rookie of the year on defense. Robinson was fantastic that season. The only reason that he didn't get the pro bowl was because he was a rookie.

Exactly. He was extraordinary his rookie season...but after that, he's continually declined. I don't know why everyone on this MB thinks that he's God's gift to the Texans, I honestly think that he'd be pressed to be the number one corner on most teams. He's the best we have, yes, but he definitely hasn't been playing "pro bowl caliber" game for the last few years

eriadoc
02-19-2009, 02:18 PM
Exactly. He was extraordinary his rookie season...but after that, he's continually declined. I don't know why everyone on this MB thinks that he's God's gift to the Texans, I honestly think that he'd be pressed to be the number one corner on most teams. He's the best we have, yes, but he definitely hasn't been playing "pro bowl caliber" game for the last few years

How quickly we forget. It's sad, really.

Rotoworld comment dated 11/14/07:

(Rotoworld) Texans placed CB Dunta Robinson on injured reserve, ending his season.

Impact: Robinson has been up and down as a pro, but he was having a Pro Bowl year. He probably won't be back to his usual self until 2009 after tearing his ACL and hamstring.

Quote from Kubiak after the injury:

I was excited to see, as we got to the end of the year here, how much the rest of the league thought about his progress come Pro Bowl time, because I thought he was having that type of year as a player.

Ole Miss Texan
02-19-2009, 02:20 PM
http://blogs.nfl.com/category/adam-schefter/

"Asomugha signed a three-year deal that is worth a minimum of $45 million and could reach $50 million, a league source said.

Itís a complex contract that the NFL had to sift through and approve, and it has. The deal works like this:

The first two years, worth $28.5 million, are fully guaranteed. In the third year of the contract, if Oakland wants to keep Asomugha, it must pay him the average of the top five highest-paid quarterbacks in the game or $16.875 million ó whichever is greater. If the Raiders fail to pick up the option, Asomugha will become a free agent, with Oakland not having the ability to tag him again."


Holy crap that is a ridiculous contract!! Who is Aso's agent? Haha, I'm still laughing at this. This is probably the best contract for a player that I've ever heard of.

I was dissappointed to read he signed a deal with Oakland, I was holding hope for him next season. I still can't believe those are the contract details... Oakland completely gotten taken advantage of. I'm also assuming it's top 5 cornerbacks instead of quarterbacks.

Mr teX
02-19-2009, 02:21 PM
http://blogs.nfl.com/category/adam-schefter/

"Asomugha signed a three-year deal that is worth a minimum of $45 million and could reach $50 million, a league source said.

Itís a complex contract that the NFL had to sift through and approve, and it has. The deal works like this:

The first two years, worth $28.5 million, are fully guaranteed. In the third year of the contract, if Oakland wants to keep Asomugha, it must pay him the average of the top five highest-paid quarterbacks in the game or $16.875 million ó whichever is greater. If the Raiders fail to pick up the option, Asomugha will become a free agent, with Oakland not having the ability to tag him again."

How can Oakland afford this AND Lechler after all the big money signings that didn't/haven't panned out a year ago? RE: Tommy Kelly highest DT contract ever, Javon Walker/Deangello Hall's big contracts as well.

Javon Walker & Deangelo hall aren't there anymore. Probably were big contracts in terms of the potential but the guaranteed money probably wasn't that much; kinda like how we did with Reeves.

bigbrewster2000
02-19-2009, 02:24 PM
Unless a team offers a guy a contract with poison pill clauses in it and the Texans deem it too expensive. LZ wrote about that in his blog a few days ago.

That really only applies to the transition tag as there is no compensation involved. Poison pilling a contract where you have to give away 2 first rounders is not a very smart football move.

bah007
02-19-2009, 02:25 PM
Holy crap that is a ridiculous contract!! Who is Aso's agent? Haha, I'm still laughing at this. This is probably the best contract for a player that I've ever heard of.

I was dissappointed to read he signed a deal with Oakland, I was holding hope for him next season. I still can't believe those are the contract details... Oakland completely gotten taken advantage of. I'm also assuming it's top 5 cornerbacks instead of quarterbacks.

If you're gonna have to be in football purgatory you better have an agent with mind control powers...

Ole Miss Texan
02-19-2009, 02:29 PM
Javon Walker & Deangelo hall aren't there anymore. Probably were big contracts in terms of the potential but the guaranteed money probably wasn't that much; kinda like how we did with Reeves.

These were both deals signed less than a year ago:

Walker's deal was a 6-year $55 million contract of which $16 million was guaranteed.

Hall's deal was 7-year $70 million contract of which $24.5 million was guaranteed.

badboy
02-19-2009, 02:31 PM
Exactly. He was extraordinary his rookie season...but after that, he's continually declined. I don't know why everyone on this MB thinks that he's God's gift to the Texans, I honestly think that he'd be pressed to be the number one corner on most teams. He's the best we have, yes, but he definitely hasn't been playing "pro bowl caliber" game for the last few yearsbb, it is like I said at mesg 180, people get emotionally involved with a player. Heck, that adds to the fun or angst. Refer to thousands of posts on David Carr. It is like talking about a spouse or g'friend, we can not always see the blemish and anyway DR is our guy. We drafted him and he is feisty and we like that. He plays hard and with emotion. It is not all about statistics and anyone can get beat or be out of position. Some one posted "he was having a probowl year" before injury. Did not make him a probowler. We can say he played like a bowler his rookie year, but that is our opinion and obviously not shared by all.

4Texans
02-19-2009, 02:33 PM
Asomugha's contract will have some affect on what D Rob gets. You know D Rob and his agent are really smiling after seeing $28.5M guaranteed.

bah007
02-19-2009, 02:34 PM
Asomugha's contract will have some affect on what D Rob gets. You know D Rob and his agent are really smiling after seeing $28.5M guaranteed.

I hope he doesn't fool himself into thinking he is even in the same league as Asomugha.

bigbrewster2000
02-19-2009, 02:34 PM
Exactly. He was extraordinary his rookie season...but after that, he's continually declined. I don't know why everyone on this MB thinks that he's God's gift to the Texans, I honestly think that he'd be pressed to be the number one corner on most teams. He's the best we have, yes, but he definitely hasn't been playing "pro bowl caliber" game for the last few years

He didnt decline , his stats did because they stopped throwing at him so much. There is a huge difference there. He is easily a top 20 corner in the league and I am betting he will have a lights out season this year after fully healing from injuries. Here is to hoping they are using the franchise tag to buy time for a long term deal.

ChampionTexan
02-19-2009, 02:37 PM
Javon Walker & Deangelo hall aren't there anymore. Probably were big contracts in terms of the potential but the guaranteed money probably wasn't that much; kinda like how we did with Reeves.

These were both deals signed less than a year ago:

Walker's deal was a 6-year $55 million contract of which $16 million was guaranteed.

Hall's deal was 7-year $70 million contract of which $24.5 million was guaranteed.

Walker is still on the Raiders roster.

Ole Miss Texan
02-19-2009, 02:49 PM
Walker is still on the Raiders roster.

Yea, Injured Reserve. Hall signed a 1 year deal with the Redskins I think.

Polo
02-19-2009, 02:56 PM
Exactly. He was extraordinary his rookie season...but after that, he's continually declined. I don't know why everyone on this MB thinks that he's God's gift to the Texans, I honestly think that he'd be pressed to be the number one corner on most teams. He's the best we have, yes, but he definitely hasn't been playing "pro bowl caliber" game for the last few years

I guess that's why it was widely reported that he probably would have been one of the most sought after free agents...

Cuz he's really not that good.

Second Honeymoon
02-19-2009, 03:03 PM
Thanks Bob for not being a cheapskate regarding your USC alum, Dunta. This was the action of a team that seems to be more committed to winning than in the past. In the past they were more worried about saving face and overpaying for total losers like Carr and Weaver.

Now get the checkbook out and bring us a prized defensive free agent.

Specnatz
02-19-2009, 03:39 PM
Yeah Bob was being a cheapskate when he listened to his GM and Coaches by signing all the past players that they have and dealt out a lot of money. Try casserly was a moron and is no longer here and Bob is still throwing out the cash that his GM (Now Rick Smith) says is the best option and the player is worth it.

I did not know that listening to the GM and dishing out the money and drafting the players the GM wants and says are right for the team (even though in hind sight they were wrong) elates to not wanting or being committed to winning.

4Texans
02-19-2009, 04:14 PM
I hope he doesn't fool himself into thinking he is even in the same league as Asomugha.

You're right, but he doesn't have to. That contract just raised the market price on CB's.

Second Honeymoon
02-19-2009, 04:17 PM
Yeah Bob was being a cheapskate when he listened to his GM and Coaches by signing all the past players that they have and dealt out a lot of money. Try casserly was a moron and is no longer here and Bob is still throwing out the cash that his GM (Now Rick Smith) says is the best option and the player is worth it.

I did not know that listening to the GM and dishing out the money and drafting the players the GM wants and says are right for the team (even though in hind sight they were wrong) elates to not wanting or being committed to winning.

Bob spent no more than any other franchise has on players. they are almost 40mill under the cap. we have never used franchise tag on anyone till today. we have never made a really huge coveted FA signing in over 7 years. Other than Gibbs, what coaches have we spent the big money on? I am saying that with the firing of RSmith and the retaining of Gibbs for a 2nd year and Dunta's franchise tag, we look to be committed to winning more than in the past. am I so wrong to feel that way?

but I say McNair seems more committed to winning because we used the franchise tag on Dunta in a perfect situtation to do so, but I am the bad guy.

whatever spec, it seems to me that Bob has and can do no wrong in your eyes. I give the guy some credit and you come to his defense.

buddyboy
02-19-2009, 05:46 PM
I guess that's why it was widely reported that he probably would have been one of the most sought after free agents...

Cuz he's really not that good.

I never said he wasn't good. Heck, I'm really happy we franchised him so he'll play for us another year. But when people start talking about he's a top 5 corner and his mere presence is the biggest factor in our defense...it just doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, he'd be one of the most sought after free agent DBs, but then again, there's a premium on DBs right now. Again, I'm glad we still have him, he improves our defense, but to make him out to be a perinnail pro-bowl CB that any team would pay out of the whazoo to get just for his tackling skill and questionable cover skills is wrong IMO.

Old School
02-19-2009, 07:34 PM
Bob spent no more than any other franchise has on players. they are almost 40mill under the cap. we have never used franchise tag on anyone till today. we have never made a really huge coveted FA signing in over 7 years. Other than Gibbs, what coaches have we spent the big money on? I am saying that with the firing of RSmith and the retaining of Gibbs for a 2nd year and Dunta's franchise tag, we look to be committed to winning more than in the past. am I so wrong to feel that way?

but I say McNair seems more committed to winning because we used the franchise tag on Dunta in a perfect situtation to do so, but I am the bad guy.

whatever spec, it seems to me that Bob has and can do no wrong in your eyes. I give the guy some credit and you come to his defense. The guy could probably take a dump in your mouth and you'd just ask for seconds.
Calm down dude and please name one free agent we had in the past worthy of a franchise tag. Anybody tagged in the past would have made people laugh.

DiehardChris
02-19-2009, 07:48 PM
Dunta Robinson "I feel betrayed." (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3919203&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)

Ruh roh.

TheRealJoker
02-19-2009, 07:50 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80ed1a5c&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

"At the end of last season, Robinson said he hoped to finish his career in Houston. Now the 26-year-old isn't sure that's the right move.

"Because of my teammates and because of this city and my family ... I really don't want to leave," he said. "But a situation like this makes it much, much harder to stay.""

steelbtexan
02-19-2009, 07:52 PM
bob spent no more than any other franchise has on players. They are almost 40mill under the cap. We have never used franchise tag on anyone till today. We have never made a really huge coveted fa signing in over 7 years. Other than gibbs, what coaches have we spent the big money on? I am saying that with the firing of rsmith and the retaining of gibbs for a 2nd year and dunta's franchise tag, we look to be committed to winning more than in the past. Am i so wrong to feel that way?

But i say mcnair seems more committed to winning because we used the franchise tag on dunta in a perfect situtation to do so, but i am the bad guy.

Whatever spec, it seems to me that bob has and can do no wrong in your eyes. I give the guy some credit and you come to his defense. The guy could probably take a dump in your mouth and you'd just ask for seconds.

lol

Mailman
02-19-2009, 07:53 PM
Oh jeez. :bat:

Tailgate
02-19-2009, 07:56 PM
Unnecessary move. The Texans had the leverage and should have been up front with him about the possibility of being tagged regardless of how sure they were on getting a deal done. Bottom line tho, its still business. Could they have trusted him in coming back if they didnt tag him?? Who knows...but I am sure he was telling them whatever they wanted to hear.

Dunta will hopefully feel better about this in time...and everyone can still live happily ever after after he gets a legit contract from us after his solid 09 campaign.

Texanmike02
02-19-2009, 07:57 PM
Daunta,

Let me tell you about betrayed. And I don't really know anything about it. But why don't you come to work with me for a week. Realize that based on that salary, you will make more money in a day than I make this year. Oh did I mention that you can get a call to come to work 24/7. For me so far, work hasn't been "go to Iraq/Afghanastan" but it very well could be. Seriously, I don't want to hear about it from somebody doing something i would love to do for 500x the annual salary I do it for. I almost never jump on the "military pulpit" because I realize I haven't gone out and deployed like some of these people I work with have, but I'll put in 70hrs over the next 5 or so days and I didn't see jack extra for it. I'm a fan of his but he needs to get a grip. I really hope someone shows something like this too him too. I wish he know how F%@#ing childish and ungreatful he sounds.

Mike

ObsiWan
02-19-2009, 07:58 PM
hmmm....
is Dunta worth two first rounders AND $10+ mil/year to someone else?
I'm not so sure
I think D-Rob is about to find out that no one can afford to pay what he wants

JCTexan
02-19-2009, 07:58 PM
Dunta Robinson "I feel betrayed." (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3919203&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)

Ruh roh.

If he doesn't want to stay then I would be fine with trading him for a first rounder. You think New Orleans might trade #14 for Dunta?

steelbtexan
02-19-2009, 07:59 PM
Dunta is betrayed & going to make 10 mil. next year.

I think he may have been one of the authors of the stimulus bill.

Thorn
02-19-2009, 08:00 PM
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3425/bsmeterra7.gif

Jackie Chiles
02-19-2009, 08:03 PM
Its unfortunate that he says Rick Smith wasn't totally honest with him but how could Dunta not have seen this as a possibility? Is he angry that he didn't get a long term deal (yet) or didn't get to hit the open market? I mean it was pretty obvious to me he was either going to sign with us or get the tag. We can't afford to lose defensive talent. I'd like to see how many of the other 14 players who received the tag had such harsh words for their franchise, ugh.

TexanSam
02-19-2009, 08:11 PM
Dunta Robinson "I feel betrayed." (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3919203&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)

Ruh roh.

Yeah yeah whatever Dunta. What's he going to do? Sit out? He'd have a great time trying to sign a long term contract that way.

If he plays well and the Texans offer him a large contract next offseason he'll be nothing but smiles.

Maybe he's so mad that he and his agent will convince someone to trade two first rounders for him :D

kiwitexansfan
02-19-2009, 08:14 PM
Dunta Robinson "I feel betrayed." (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3919203&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)

Ruh roh.

That is ridiculous, they slapped him with a contract far in excess of what he is actually worth and he complains.

He is touted as a franchise leader, the heart and soul of the team, and he is franchised to keep him as that... and he complains.

Terrible move putting the flag on him, terrible move complaining about it like a little sissy girl....

DiehardChris
02-19-2009, 08:17 PM
Well, I think he's actually complaining about the lying part, not the money part.

But still - doesn't seem smart to publicly trash the GM.

Sigh. This sucks.

bah007
02-19-2009, 08:22 PM
If he doesn't want to stay then I would be fine with trading him for a first rounder. You think New Orleans might trade #14 for Dunta?

No.

bah007
02-19-2009, 08:23 PM
Dunta is complaining because if he gets injured again he probably won't see most of that money.

I'm no expert on the franchise tags so somebody set me straight if I'm wrong, but it's not guaranteed money is it?

ChampionTexan
02-19-2009, 08:25 PM
Dunta is complaining because if he gets injured again he probably won't see most of that money.

I'm no expert on the franchise tags so somebody set me straight if I'm wrong, but it's not guaranteed money is it?

It is. As soon as he signs the one-year deal, it's 100% guaranteed.

Lucky
02-19-2009, 08:28 PM
"I'm still able to play football and I love my team," he said. "I love playing for the city of Houston. Something somebody does or something somebody says is not going to affect my game in a negative way."
What's with all the whining from you guys? Dunta's back, he'll be healthier, he'll be hungry. It's all good.

b0ng
02-19-2009, 08:28 PM
He's upset because he wanted a deal that was longer term than 1 year which is fair in a workplace like the NFL. He was also told that he wouldn't be tagged, and he doesn't like that.

If he plays at a PB level and makes us win games single-handedly, then yeah pay him whatever he wants and talk about how happy you are to lock up such a great player. If he plays at a mediocre level and still demands some retarded contract then whatever. If he plays great, but not other-wordly, I hope the Texans don't lowball him and he walks.

His comments don't piss me off that much because I can see where he's coming from. However the quality of his character will be judged by the strength of his actions.

WesmanTexanfan
02-19-2009, 08:29 PM
What's with all the whining from you guys? Dunta's back, he'll be healthier, he'll be hungry. It's all good.

Right!

Dunta is my favorite Texan, It just goes to show that no matter the fan base there are always haters...

MannyFresh
02-19-2009, 08:33 PM
Yahoo reports that Dunta feels betrayed and that Texans lied to him about franchise status. Uh oh.

ESAD2-14
02-19-2009, 08:34 PM
Can't fault the dude for wanting to test different waters, he has been here through some pretty crappy teams since he was drafted. Although things are looking better. At the same time $10 mil (rounded up) for about 7 months worth of work ain't all that bad either. Hope his love for the team, his teammates, and the city is > then his boo boo lip for getting franchised.

Any bets on what Dickie J's next Texan bash will be about?:thinking:

bah007
02-19-2009, 08:37 PM
Why should we sign a guy to a long term contract when he is coming off such a potentially career ending injury?

Surely Dunta can see the Texans point of view on this one.

It would not be a wise investment to sign him to a long term deal until he proves the injury is behind him and he is the same player after it that he was before.

If he really was lied to then he has a reason to be angry about that.

Does anyone think there is a possibility that he believes he was lied to but he really wasn't? Like maybe he misinterpreted something that was said to him?

BSofA04
02-19-2009, 08:40 PM
His comments don't piss me off that much because I can see where he's coming from. However the quality of his character will be judged by the strength of his actions.

I absolutely agree. He did mention that this won't effect his play on the field, which I hope it doesn't. Should he play at a high level next season and prove to be worth PB money, then he'll get what he deserves. We can only hope it comes from Bob McNair.

WesmanTexanfan
02-19-2009, 08:48 PM
Why should we sign a guy to a long term contract when he is coming off such a potentially career ending injury?

Surely Dunta can see the Texans point of view on this one.

It would not be a wise investment to sign him to a long term deal until he proves the injury is behind him and he is the same player after it that he was before.

If he really was lied to then he has a reason to be angry about that.

Does anyone think there is a possibility that he believes he was lied to but he really wasn't? Like maybe he misinterpreted something that was said to him?


Maybe they told him theyd get him a contract and then when they heard what kind of money he wanted they were like STAMP!!!!

I like what your saying though

Ericv
02-19-2009, 08:52 PM
What's with all the whining from you guys? Dunta's back, he'll be healthier, he'll be hungry. It's all good.
I was going to quote the same thing. I think they'll sit down and get a long-term deal done before the start of next season. I think its the smart move to make as a team. You have leaders on your team at every phase right now on D (Williams, Ryans, and Robinson) and I'd think as a GM you'd want to keep that chemistry together as long as you don't have to spend too much money to do it. I don't think a guaranteed $23 over 5 years is all that crazy for a top-end corner and for any doubters just remember that lack of pressure on a QB makes it hard for ANY corner out there. When we get the pass rush going with the class of this draft I think you'll see Dunta become a fixture at the pro bowl.

(hello to all btw)

ChampionTexan
02-19-2009, 09:03 PM
Why should we sign a guy to a long term contract when he is coming off such a potentially career ending injury?

Surely Dunta can see the Texans point of view on this one.

It would not be a wise investment to sign him to a long term deal until he proves the injury is behind him and he is the same player after it that he was before.

If he really was lied to then he has a reason to be angry about that.

Does anyone think there is a possibility that he believes he was lied to but he really wasn't? Like maybe he misinterpreted something that was said to him?

If Rick Smith did flat-out lie to Dunta, that's reprehensible, but as you indicate, we can't know right now what happened.

Dunta could very realistically come out way ahead on this deal. I don't pretend to know what he would have been worth on the open market this offseason, although I'm very skeptical that it would have been Chris Gamble money. But whatever that value would have been, it would have come on the heels of a partial season where he was only able to play in 11 games and start 6 because of an injury many were concerned might be career ending. By his own admission, Dunta was only about 80% this season. Based on my viewing of the Texans games (and I maintain no delusions of being a personnel expert), his estimate may have been a bit high.

Whatever that value would have been this off-season, it will be far higher if he can use the 2009 season to prove that he's 95% or more of his old self - even if that only happens over the last few games of the 2009 season. On top of that, he will get almost $10 Million for getting the opportunity to prove that.

Granted, there are other less optimistic scenario's, but if you're Dunta Robinson, and you truly believe you will return to previous form, you don't really have a right to complain about a 1-year hiccup that could end up being a financial positive.

dtran04
02-19-2009, 09:35 PM
Let's be real too. Every single player that has received the franchise tag is "unhappy". That's just part of the deal. They have to say that to the media to put more pressure on the team.

Htownsportsfan
02-19-2009, 09:35 PM
I am a bit surprised te Dunta has been so ooutspoken about his anger over the franshise tag. I understand he wanted a long term deal which would have guarenteed him about 23 Milllion vs the 9 Million he gets for the one year, but without knowing the circumstances I am not going to fault Smith. If Smith told them in good faith he would not be franchised expecting Dunta and his agent to be asking for a fair deal, and they came in asking to much then I would side with Smith. He should not have told him he would not franchise him because that means Dunta and his agent could use the threat of walking away from the Texans with no compensation to the team. Kudos for franchising him! That said now you have time to negotiate so go apologize to Dunta and tell him you just could not risk losing him and get the damn deal done!

The1ApplePie
02-19-2009, 09:49 PM
In honesty, Dunta probably isn't even the best CB on the Texans, let alone a top 5 guy. He is getting way overpaid and he still complains?

Dunta is an emotional leader (except when he chucks teammates under the bus, ie David Carr) and a good man but he is not an elite player.

Of course a lot of mediocre players got tagged this year.

Hooston Texan
02-19-2009, 10:00 PM
A public display of anger is really the last card Dunta has in the deck for this year.

If he has as a year worthy of a $23 million cornerback in 2009, Dunta will come out way ahead in this deal. If he plays that well, he gets $10 million this year and then he's young enough that he can just as easily command his $23 million next offseason. That's $33 million, with a huge chunck coming in 2009 (before the 2001 tax cuts expire).

On the other hand, let's say the Texans signed him to a $23 million deal. He turns 27 in April, so he'll be almost 32 when the five year deal expires. No way a 32-year-old corner gets a $10 million deal. So he'll only get $23 million plus whatever he can get at 32. That's much worse than $33 million at age 33. [Of course, high inflation could change all that, but that's another issue . . . ]

And, heck, if he has such a good year, he won't be in the $23 million ballpark next year. He might find himself closer to Asomogha money. And, depending on the labor situation, he might be negotiating a deal in an uncapped year. Cha-FREAKING-ching!!

He may not be sending Rick Smith easter cards this year, but Dunta is going to have every incentive to play his hind-end off this year (not that motivation was ever an issue). The team will reap the benefits, while Dunta gets closer to his long-term deal.

threetoedpete
02-19-2009, 10:28 PM
Its unfortunate that he says Rick Smith wasn't totally honest with him but how could Dunta not have seen this as a possibility? Is he angry that he didn't get a long term deal (yet) or didn't get to hit the open market? I mean it was pretty obvious to me he was either going to sign with us or get the tag. We can't afford to lose defensive talent. I'd like to see how many of the other 14 players who received the tag had such harsh words for their franchise, ugh.

He's on the market. Anyone who wants to part with two ones and a forty three million dollar contact with twenty four to twenty eight million guaranteed can sign Robinson. GD beer is expensive enough at Reliant. I 'm glad Rick Smith exercised some cajones and made the correct move. I don't mind him having his pout. But he better get over it by OTAs...he'll pout himself right into NFL hell. Lot worse things in this league than making ten million and being on a contender.

Jackie Chiles
02-19-2009, 11:04 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6269456.html

A couple new quotes from Robinson, one particularly interesting:

"Some players get so angry at being tagged they refuse to participate in offseason drills. Some donít report until the start of regular season when players are paid over 17 weeks.

ďI donít know what Iím going to do,Ē Robinson said. ďIf you ask me right now, I wouldnít be there (training camp)."

I have loved Dunta from the second he became a Texan but he better be there during training camp. I'm not usually pessimistic with things involving the Texans but I have had visions of Anquan Boldin running through my mind after seeing Dunta's reaction to getting tagged and this doesn't help.

TexanSam
02-19-2009, 11:12 PM
It's his loss if he doesn't show up for training camp both from a football standpoint and financially. If Reeves, Bennett and Molden all do well during training camp and Robinson holds out, then he will fall on the depth chart and may see less playing time than he would if he reported and played the entire time.

The less he plays the less likely he'll get a big paycheck next offseason.

My guess is that he does show up though. I don't think the Texans and Robinson will come to any contract. What kind of contract would you even give the guy?

mexican_texan
02-19-2009, 11:15 PM
I'd give him six years $45 million at most.

WesmanTexanfan
02-19-2009, 11:20 PM
It's his loss if he doesn't show up for training camp both from a football standpoint and financially. If Reeves, Bennett and Molden all do well during training camp and Robinson holds out, then he will fall on the depth chart and may see less playing time than he would if he reported and played the entire time.

The less he plays the less likely he'll get a big paycheck next offseason.

My guess is that he does show up though. I don't think the Texans and Robinson will come to any contract. What kind of contract would you even give the guy?

especially with kubiaks way of coaching.....


wich I like...

Wolf
02-19-2009, 11:49 PM
Either HE or his agent HAD to know this was a possibility. It probably wouldn't have been an issue if he wasn't hurt 2 seasons ago, Texans would have got a contract hammered out, but he got hurt and I think any team would have done what the Texans have done.

About the quote that D-rob said about Smith saying that the Texans wouldn't do that to him, who knows what was said.. Texans might have said that with the hopes of hammering out a deal, but when they didnt' get a deal done, they franchised him so they could have more time.. who knows.


I do admit, I figured I would hear grumblings from Peppers , not D-rob, but a team has to do what a team has to do

Ole Miss Texan
02-19-2009, 11:58 PM
Well the best thing Dunta can do right now is practice with the team and participate in everyway he can. And his agent should continue trying to negotiate a deal for him. Skipping training camp and other stuff shouldn't be the way to go about this. Even if he just wants to get the year over with and sign with a different team, he should do everything he can to prepare himself the best he can to have a successful season and successful rehab. And Dunta has stated how much he likes Houston and his teammates. If that's true... don't let your teammates down. Be there to make the team the best it can be, and help your teammates get better too.


Let's not forget that Dunta and his agent can continue talking to other teams. This doesn't mean he's off the market. He can negotiate with another team and come to some terms. Although the stipulation would be, said team would have to give up two 1st round picks, the Texans can negotiate a trade differently. The Chiefs got the Vikings 1st rd pick and two 3rds. Maybe the Texans say we'll just take one 1st rd pick... who knows.

But this story isn't over yet. It doesn't mean he's here until next season, this is just the beginning!

barrett
02-20-2009, 12:08 AM
I was all for him being franchised from the beginning. I think a long term deal would have been a mistake. Due to his injury it's a reasonable scenario to evaluate and assess his value in order to offer him a fair for both parties deal regardless of what was in Robinson's best interest. I don't know what was said or promised by Rick Smith. None of us do. I think business negotiations of this financial level are complicated and involve multiple compromises. I'm not going to speculate on weather or not Robinson was lied to. If he was, it was the wrong thing to do and I would consider it a black mark on Smith's otherwise very impressive resume of character. Just as acting out and not attending camp would be disappointing for Robinson's equally impressive resume of character.

But what I want to know is....

Robinson learned of his status from reporters who called for interviews about the situation.

How do you not pick up the phone and call the guy to let him know?





http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80ed1a5c&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

rockabilly
02-20-2009, 12:57 AM
My chime in...

I'm proud of Rick Smith. Loyalty is important, but we finally have a front office that is thinking about the win column and not about making someone feel good.

The bottom line is...spending any money on Dunta is a HUGE gamble. Just last year he had is entire hamstring OFF THE BONE!

I think Dunta is being a big baby and I have lost a lot of respect for him from his recent comments. Im tired of NFL players crying about getting franchised.

Oh, I have to get paid 9 million dollars to play football for one year. How sad it is to be you....

I honestly dont think we are any better or worse with or without Dunta post leg destruction. And if he really cared about this team, he would make the sacrifice so we can get the rest of the players we need to make us a contender.