PDA

View Full Version : Texans place Franchise Tag on D Rob today.


Pages : 1 [2]

Malloy
02-20-2009, 02:02 AM
Right!

Dunta is my favorite Texan, It just goes to show that no matter the fan base there are always haters...

Rubbish, calling someone haters just because they find it hard to believe that someone are 'feeling betrayed' after recieving $10mil, then go on to insinuate that Houston might not be the place to stay? If you call that 'face of the Texans' and lockerroom presence, then I dont want to be in that lockerroom.

I can see why that would irritate people, it irritates me...

Specnatz
02-20-2009, 04:57 AM
Bob spent no more than any other franchise has on players. they are almost 40mill under the cap. we have never used franchise tag on anyone till today. we have never made a really huge coveted FA signing in over 7 years. Other than Gibbs, what coaches have we spent the big money on? I am saying that with the firing of RSmith and the retaining of Gibbs for a 2nd year and Dunta's franchise tag, we look to be committed to winning more than in the past. am I so wrong to feel that way?

but I say McNair seems more committed to winning because we used the franchise tag on Dunta in a perfect situtation to do so, but I am the bad guy.

whatever spec, it seems to me that Bob has and can do no wrong in your eyes. I give the guy some credit and you come to his defense.

Yes you are wrong! You always find something to complain about and never get your facts right. Well until you find someone else to complain about then you get half right. As far as always defending the owner, Yeah I do because I will blame the guys making the football decisions first and not the owner who is not trying to act like he is the gm and screwing crap up like the team just to the north.

First time used the franchise tag, well Sherlock who in the past would you have used it on? Besides the Raiders use it almost every year and they are not the best franchise to model after now are they?

As far as big name coaches go you have said this in the past and backed off it Now your back on it. No matter if it worked out or not at the time Palmer was a big coaching hire at the time. You seem to love looking at how the steelers do thing, how big of a name was and is Mike Tomlin or Bruce Airians (yeah I know you had to look it up). Besides the head coach there is only one coach on the3 Steelers anyone can list and call a big hire, so this line of argument is pretty damn moronic.

You blame the owner for casserlys mistakes on FA signings. Would you really like an owner like Dan Snyder who has a gm but interferes with everything and nothing working out?

Dean 74
02-20-2009, 07:02 AM
aww, booo.
c'mon. 10 mil/year. team takes a dump in "09, he has a private lifeboat to get off the sinking ship.
he's no dumbass.
-74

gtexan02
02-20-2009, 07:44 AM
Ive been saying since the beginning that DRob wants out of Houston. I spoke to someone who knows him well, and he told me that last season, Dunta said he was ready to branch out and test out the FA market this offseason.

The only real way we were going to keep him here was through the franchise tag. We probably could have signed him to a long term deal, but my guess is that becaue he was ready to leave, he and his agent asked for an exorbitant amount of money.

I don't buy all this stuff about loving Houston, loving his teammates and the situation, etc. He wants to move on. Like all players, he'd stay here for a crazy amount of money. But he doesn't want to remain in limbo with the franchise tag.

Theres another key point at work here that you guys are forgetting. Dunta wants to go to a winner. He wants to win now. He doesn't want to wait.

If he plays with us this season with the franchise tag, the earliest he can leave is 2010. He can't go to a winner (and get a big playday) in 2010 per the NFL rules for the uncapped year. The 2011 season might be a lockout. Which would mean that by signing a franchise tag contract this season, he may be precluding himself from switching to a playoff caliber team until 2012 at the earlist.

Grams
02-20-2009, 07:45 AM
Give me 9 mill garranteed for a year. I could retire.

gtexan02
02-20-2009, 07:47 AM
Give me 9 mill garranteed for a year. I could retire.

Seriously. Split it up into a bunch of different FDIC insured investments and just live off the compound interest.

Errant Hothy
02-20-2009, 07:51 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6269456.html

A couple new quotes from Robinson, one particularly interesting:

"Some players get so angry at being tagged they refuse to participate in offseason drills. Some don’t report until the start of regular season when players are paid over 17 weeks.

“I don’t know what I’m going to do,” Robinson said. “If you ask me right now, I wouldn’t be there (training camp)."

I have loved Dunta from the second he became a Texan but he better be there during training camp. I'm not usually pessimistic with things involving the Texans but I have had visions of Anquan Boldin running through my mind after seeing Dunta's reaction to getting tagged and this doesn't help.

If Dunta skips camp, I think he will lose a lot of the credibility that allows him to lead this team. I'd also be a tad disappionted in him. Hurting the team by skipping camp, is not the best way to show you are worthy of a big money, long term deal.

If Dunta was offered Gamble type money and turned it down, I'm starting to think that he will not be a Texan in the long-term. He simply isn't worth more then waht Gamble is making. Now if he has an All-Pro year, shows that he is indeed 100% and can shut down one side of the field; I'd consider offering him more. I just don't think that will happen.

BigBull17
02-20-2009, 07:54 AM
I think he needs to watch tape of himself as he bitches for a fair contract. He's not a top 10 CB in the NFL, he's coming off of an injury where they had to glue his leg back on. I'm glad we started to get a little colder than in the past. Screw these guys feelings. New England and Philly don't give a ****. No more mister nice guy. Do whats good for our team, and don't worry about being their friends.

TimeKiller
02-20-2009, 08:00 AM
Dear God,

I promise if you ever afford me the opportunity to make 10 million dollars in 1 year I'll never complain one word about it.

Thanks.


Boo that. Have some sack 23, or at least some brains. Complaining to try and drive up the price next year? How 'bout a different but similar route? "I can't wait to reprove my worth to this franchise" even if you add a "so we can get me a bigger deal next year" on the end. Heart of the defense? You damn well better be homeboy, 'cause if you come out getting torched there won't be any money trucks backing up to your house. They said they wouldn't tag you because they figured you would sign the fair-for-both-sides deal they offered. What's the difference between 18 and 21 mil? A gold plated pool instead of a silver plated pool?

Yeah, try not practicing in your situation too, that'll be just swell.

Put up or shut up.

Kaiser Toro
02-20-2009, 08:08 AM
Dunta is acting like a little ***** and has given up his leverage with the Texans and continues to hurt himself in an uncertain economy with the uncertainty of the NFL labor situation on the horizon. The more I hear from him, the more I think his agent does not know what the heck he is doing.

I did some searching on Dunta's agent, Jason Chayut. Not a great list of players, and he has not appeared to have provided a great service to his players. His 15 minutes was when he was handling Deion Branch's exit from the Patriots. I see him being the disconnect in this triangle, which helps no one.

Off a Google search the fourth entry for his name is the New York Wedding Guide

http://images.nymag.com/images/shopping/weddings/03/pictureperfect/allisonjason1_175.jpg

Errant Hothy
02-20-2009, 08:12 AM
Dunta is acting like a little ***** and has given up his leverage with the Texans and continues to hurt himself in an uncertain economy with the uncertainty of the NFL labor situation on the horizon. The more I hear from him, the more I think his agent does not know what the heck he is doing.

I did some searching on Dunta's agent, Jason Chayut. Not a great list of players, and he has not appeared to have provided a great service to his players. His 15 minutes was when he was handling Deion Branch's exit from the Patriots. I see him being the disconnect in this triangle, which helps no one.

Off a Google search the fourth entry for his name is the New York Wedding Guide

http://images.nymag.com/images/shopping/weddings/03/pictureperfect/allisonjason1_175.jpg

I'd be curious as to how this guy landed Dunta as a client, and even more curious as to how he's been able to hold on to him.

I'm surprised that other agents havn't been calling Dunta, trying to pry him away from Chayut. I expect it may happen if Dunta as a All-Pro type season in 09.

Kaiser Toro
02-20-2009, 08:18 AM
From 7/2006:
So what's the holdup and why is Branch reportedly going to hold out when training camp begins today? Because his agent, Jason Chayut, is killing him.

Earlier this week, Chayut told the Boston Globe that the Patriots are exploiting Branch.

Nice move, Jason. Make your client sound like he's an 8-year-old sweatshop employee making 44 cents a week in Thailand. That'll swing public opinion in his favor.

Wednesday, Chayut added that Branch, "won't be in camp until he feels he's being treated fairly."

That must mean he'll be in the day he cans Chayut because that's where the exploitation and unfair dealing are coming from -- the guy who stands to make the commission on the deal.


http://archive.seacoastonline.com/news/07282006/sports-branch728.html

FOXBORO, MA -- It appears that the contract dispute between wide receiver Deion Branch and the Patriots will remain at a stalemate after the receiver sat out the first day of training camp on Friday.

According to the Providence Journal the issue now is over whether or not the Patriots will decide to put the franchise tag on Branch should he decide to play out the season and try to test the free agent market after this year. The veteran receiver is in the final year of his five-year rookie contract and missed the first day of practice, which reportedly cost him $14,000.

He is now apparently willing to return to the field, providing the team will set him free after this season.

His agent, Jason Chayut, told the newspaper, "If (the Patriots) came to me and said, 'Jason, we won't franchise Deion,' I would talk with them every day of the season in good faith to get a long-term deal done."

But should the Patriots elect to agree to that request, it would take away the leverage they have in negotiating. Logic would say that Chayut and his client are not going to get the answer they are looking for, which leaves them currently in a deadlock until they find common ground.

The team has reportedly offered him a 4-year deal that is worth an average of just under $6 million per season, but Chayut feels his client is worth closer to $7 million. The bad news for Branch is that sitting out could also cost him up to $510,000 (more than his reported $500,000 base salary for this season) should he not report until September 1st.



http://www.patsfans.com/stories/article/2975/

Kaiser Toro
02-20-2009, 08:20 AM
From 2/2005:
After Sunday's Super Bowl, marketing specialists disagree on which players, besides quarterback Brady, possess the stature to do national marketing deals. Branch, the MVP wide receiver, could be get some national offers, but the opportunity may be greater in regional marketing, Tatoian said. Though he rooted for New England in the Super Bowl, Tatoian said he did not even notice Branch until his fourth or fifth catch.

But Branch's agent, Jason Chayut, said he already has heard from several companies, both national and local, though he declined to name them. He said the MVP award makes Branch stand out from the rest of the group.

''With the MVP, it really changes the landscape for his potential to earn," Chayut said. ''I think he'll exploit that to the fullest."

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2005/02/08/no_marketing_blitz_for_the_patriots/

Kaiser Toro
02-20-2009, 08:36 AM
I'd be curious as to how this guy landed Dunta as a client, and even more curious as to how he's been able to hold on to him.

I'm surprised that other agents havn't been calling Dunta, trying to pry him away from Chayut. I expect it may happen if Dunta as a All-Pro type season in 09.

In seeing scatter shots on message boards and in articles, it appears he has a connection to thw Univ. of South Carolina.

Errant Hothy
02-20-2009, 08:43 AM
In seeing scatter shots on message boards and in articles, it appears he has a connection to thw Univ. of South Carolina.

Fred Bennett?

Somebody should remind Dunta of what happened to Branch after this dumbass advised him on what was inhis best intrests.

GP
02-20-2009, 08:44 AM
Well, this is typical.

A guy who is generally loved by all...is now griping about getting "tagged."

I told you guys that players don't like to get tagged. And I know that from our standpoint, it doesn't make sense (We'd all be happy with $10 million). But in the end, these players like to whine about how much they are missing out on because they got tagged. It's a way of feeling like you can pump yourself up a little, as if to say "I'm, soooo much more valuable than what my team is paying me. They had to do this JUST so they could keep me."

IMO, it's basic human psychology: Now you have a reason to act like a turd because "someone's holding ya' back from better things!" They think people will empathize with this. That's how simplistic an NFL player's mind is. They're out of touch with reality because they haven't lived in reality since high school. Even in college, a football player was pampered, protected, coddled, and treated like royalty.

LOL. I knew this would happen. Nice-Guy-Dunta just spoiled a lot of people's opinions about him. The same ones who were all "Hey! Dunta's going to play this Sunday! Welcome back, big fella'...#23 back in action, and ready to kick some butt!" are now bemoaning his easily-predicted temper tantrum.

Like I said yesterday: Dude is gone after this year. Not being able to work out a long-term deal right up to the deadline of getting tagged...pretty simple math if you ask me. And we won't sign him to a long-term deal. I'll eat my Texans speedo if we do.

Errant Hothy
02-20-2009, 08:46 AM
Well, this is typical.

A guy who is generally loved by all...is now griping about getting "tagged."

I told you guys that players don't like to get tagged. And I know that from our standpoint, it doesn't make sense (We'd all be happy with $10 million). But in the end, these players like to whine about how much they are missing out on because they got tagged. It's a way of feeling like you can pump yourself up a little, as if to say "I'm, soooo much more valuable than what my team is paying me. They had to do this JUST so they could keep me."

IMO, it's basic human psychology: Now you have a reason to act like a turd because "someone's holding ya' back from better things!" They think people will empathize with this. That's how simplistic an NFL player's mind is. They're out of touch with reality because they haven't lived in reality since high school. Even in college, a football player was pampered, protected, coddled, and treated like royalty.

LOL. I knew this would happen. Nice-Guy-Dunta just spoiled a lot of people's opinions about him. The same ones who were all "Hey! Dunta's going to play this Sunday! Welcome back, big fella'...#23 back in action, and ready to kick some butt!" are now bemoaning his easily-predicted temper tantrum.

Like I said yesterday: Dude is gone after this year.

I think you may be right, espically in light of who is agent is; and said agents past dealings with teams.

Blake
02-20-2009, 08:52 AM
This is ridiculous. Just give him his contract with 23 million guaranteed and lets move on. Nobody is giving 2 first round picks for him.

Also, anyone who has a problem with him asking for Chris Gamble money needs to take a step back.

Imagine you and your friend get a job working at Jiffy Lube and are hired at the same time. Your friend calls you and tells you he got hired at $23 an hour. You are going to expect to go in there and get $23 an hour because that's what a oil tech makes apparently. Well you get there and the boss offers you $20 an hour max. You are going to be annoyed and frustrated. And don't act like you wouldn't be.

Lets be real about this. He is going to get his money.

Blake
02-20-2009, 08:57 AM
Well, this is typical.

A guy who is generally loved by all...is now griping about getting "tagged."

I told you guys that players don't like to get tagged. And I know that from our standpoint, it doesn't make sense (We'd all be happy with $10 million). But in the end, these players like to whine about how much they are missing out on because they got tagged. It's a way of feeling like you can pump yourself up a little, as if to say "I'm, soooo much more valuable than what my team is paying me. They had to do this JUST so they could keep me."

IMO, it's basic human psychology: Now you have a reason to act like a turd because "someone's holding ya' back from better things!" They think people will empathize with this. That's how simplistic an NFL player's mind is. They're out of touch with reality because they haven't lived in reality since high school. Even in college, a football player was pampered, protected, coddled, and treated like royalty.

Lol @ you thinking you would do anything different in his shoes. Players hate getting tagged because they want the long term contract with the signing bonus and some security. They play football. They dont manage a grocery store that will be there year after year. Especially after Dunta's injury he knows that his time in the NFL is limited. Every player gets as much as they can before they have to get out.

Who the hell are you to judge him really?

TheRealJoker
02-20-2009, 08:59 AM
Dunta needs to take some notes from Andre Johnson. A guy who signed a lifetime contract pre 07 for 15 M guaranteed AND has yet to renegotiate despite his monster year unlike what most players would do in his shoes.

bah007
02-20-2009, 08:59 AM
This is ridiculous. Just give him his contract with 23 million guaranteed and lets move on. Nobody is giving 2 first round picks for him.

Also, anyone who has a problem with him asking for Chris Gamble money needs to take a step back.

Imagine you and your friend get a job working at Jiffy Lube and are hired at the same time. Your friend calls you and tells you he got hired at $23 an hour. You are going to expect to go in there and get $23 an hour because that's what a oil tech makes apparently. Well you get there and the boss offers you $20 an hour max. You are going to be annoyed and frustrated. And don't act like you wouldn't be.

Lets be real about this. He is going to get his money.

If you changed oil as fast as your friend did you would be making your $23.

Dunta isn't Chris Gamble. He is a CB who is great in run support but average in coverage.

Kaiser Toro
02-20-2009, 09:00 AM
Fred Bennett?

Somebody should remind Dunta of what happened to Branch after this dumbass advised him on what was inhis best intrests.

I cannot find anything linking Bennett to Chayut at this point.

Errant Hothy
02-20-2009, 09:00 AM
This is ridiculous. Just give him his contract with 23 million guaranteed and lets move on. Nobody is giving 2 first round picks for him.

Also, anyone who has a problem with him asking for Chris Gamble money needs to take a step back.

Imagine you and your friend get a job working at Jiffy Lube and are hired at the same time. Your friend calls you and tells you he got hired at $23 an hour. You are going to expect to go in there and get $23 an hour because that's what a oil tech makes apparently. Well you get there and the boss offers you $20 an hour max. You are going to be annoyed and frustrated. And don't act like you wouldn't be.

Lets be real about this. He is going to get his money.

Dude, from what we can gather he was offered Gamble type money and turned it down. He (Dunta) or his agent think's that they deserve more then Gamble, which is why they and the Rick Smith could not agree on a contract. Which is why he got taggged.

Blake
02-20-2009, 09:09 AM
If you changed oil as fast as your friend did you would be making your $23.

Dunta isn't Chris Gamble. He is a CB who is great in run support but average in coverage.

I never said which one changed oil faster. Lol. You are missing the point...

Chris Gamble isnt worth Chris Gamble money but he got it. Get used to the idea that Dunta is going to be overpaid. It will make it easier on you later.

drewmar74
02-20-2009, 09:10 AM
Dude, from what we can gather he was offered Gamble type money and turned it down. He (Dunta) or his agent think's that they deserve more then Gamble, which is why they and the Rick Smith could not agree on a contract. Which is why he got taggged.

Either they think that or he was just trying to price himself out of town....

Polo
02-20-2009, 09:12 AM
I don't have a problem with Dunta wanting to get all the money that he can.

Blake
02-20-2009, 09:13 AM
Dude, from what we can gather he was offered Gamble type money and turned it down. He (Dunta) or his agent think's that they deserve more then Gamble, which is why they and the Rick Smith could not agree on a contract. Which is why he got taggged.

Dude, you mean what you can gather from pure speculation. You have no idea what he was offered and with what incentives. And you are speculating again that he wants more than Gamble got.

Blake
02-20-2009, 09:14 AM
I don't have a problem with Dunta wanting to get all the money that he can.

Same here. Get what you can while the owners still need you. Then when they cut you without a second thought and you are done in the NFL you got what you came for.

ChampionTexan
02-20-2009, 09:14 AM
I don't have a problem with Dunta wanting to get all the money that he can.

Agreed, but I also don't have a problem with the Texans limiting their future financial exposure while Dunta's return from injury is still somewhat iffy.

Errant Hothy
02-20-2009, 09:21 AM
Dude, you mean what you can gather from pure speculation. You have no idea what he was offered and with what incentives. And you are speculating again that he wants more than Gamble got.

Nor really, granted it takes a few leaps of faith but look at the facts.

It, in theory, cost the Texans 3 million more to franchise Dunta then offer him a 5 year deal with 23 million dollar quarenteed. Why would the Texans do that, if Dunta was ok with the 23 million in quarenteed money? It's pretty easy to figure that Dunta, and his agent, where the one's unhappy with those numbers.

Now it is possible that the Texans were offering less then the 5 years 23 million quarenteed; but if that is the case then it costs the Texans even more to franchise Dunta.

Is it speculation, partly; but there are some facts involved.

El Tejano
02-20-2009, 09:33 AM
So here is how I feel:

I agree with what The Texans did. Take a look around the NFL and you will notice there are several teams who tagged their best player. The Texans did not want to let him go for nothing, and they do want to figure out a way to keep him here. They just realized this couldn't be done by 3pm yesterday.

I also think that Dunta is worth what he's asking for. He's been a solid football player for us and his leadership has been valuable to us. However if he wants the money he is asking for, he better start coming up with more interceptions than what he's shown us since his rookie year. If he doesn't, for one, The Texans just may let him go. Secondly, you aren't going to see very many teams offering that kind of money to a player that hasn't shown any ability to get them the football. CBs that get paid lots of money are CBs that intercept the ball alot. Not saying that's right but that's how it is.

I also do believe that, based on Robinson's comments about not negotiating a long term deal, franchising him was still a bad idea because his expressions could have The Texans addressing his potential exit in the offseason which change our plans for FA and the draft, which could mean we miss out on addressing a team need.

BigBull17
02-20-2009, 09:35 AM
Agreed, but I also don't have a problem with the Texans limiting their future financial exposure while Dunta's return from injury is still somewhat iffy.

Right on. If he tries to price himself out of town next year, we'll tag him again. No more mister nice guy.

bah007
02-20-2009, 09:39 AM
I never said which one changed oil faster. Lol. You are missing the point...

Chris Gamble isnt worth Chris Gamble money but he got it. Get used to the idea that Dunta is going to be overpaid. It will make it easier on you later.

Every pro athlete is overpaid, even the best ones.

Here is the facts. If you want a job you have to submit a resume. Dunta has worked for us in the past, but his contract was up, meaning he is looking for a job. And he has to submit a resume just like anyone else.

The problem is his resume says he has only played in 20 games combined in the last two years combined and is coming off a career threatening injury. And prior to that, his only really good year was five years ago. He has been solid since his rookie year, but he is an above average CB and nothing more. And that was prior to his injury. Who knows now.

There is no reason to expect a long term deal if you are in that situation. It is unrealistic. We did the right thing. Signing him to a long term deal at this point is the same type of mistake that the previous front office would have made.

Next year, he is going to sign a new contract and he will get what he is worth.

Let's put this in real perspective here though. He will get paid more money in one year than than I will ever see in my life. He is earning that money by playing a GAME.

All NFL players want long term contracts because it gives them security, but some players just aren't in the position to receive them. Unless our organization blatantly told him a bold faced lie then he has absolutely no reason to be upset about this.

BigBull17
02-20-2009, 09:42 AM
Every pro athlete is overpaid, even the best ones.

Here is the facts. If you want a job you have to submit a resume. Dunta has worked for us in the past, but his contract was up, meaning he is looking for a job. And he has to submit a resume just like anyone else.

The problem is his resume says he has only played in 20 games combined in the last two years combined and is coming off a career threatening injury. And prior to that, his only really good year was five years ago. He has been solid since his rookie year, but he is an above average CB and nothing more. And that was prior to his injury. Who knows now.

There is no reason to expect a long term deal if you are in that situation. It is unrealistic. We did the right thing. Signing him to a long term deal at this point is the same type of mistake that the previous front office would have made.

Next year, he is going to sign a new contract and he will get what he is worth.

Let's put this in real perspective here though. He will get paid more money in one year than than I will ever see in my life. He is earning that money by playing a GAME.

All NFL players want long term contracts because it gives them security, but some players just aren't in the position to receive them. Unless our organization blatantly told him a bold faced lie then he has absolutely no reason to be upset about this.

He is a really good 2nd CB. Thats it.

Errant Hothy
02-20-2009, 09:43 AM
Every pro athlete is overpaid, even the best ones.

Here is the facts. If you want a job you have to submit a resume. Dunta has worked for us in the past, but his contract was up, meaning he is looking for a job. And he has to submit a resume just like anyone else.

The problem is his resume says he has only played in 20 games combined in the last two years combined and is coming off a career threatening injury. And prior to that, his only really good year was five years ago. He has been solid since his rookie year, but he is an above average CB and nothing more. And that was prior to his injury. Who knows now.

There is no reason to expect a long term deal if you are in that situation. It is unrealistic. We did the right thing. Signing him to a long term deal at this point is the same type of mistake that the previous front office would have made.

Next year, he is going to sign a new contract and he will get what he is worth.

Let's put this in real perspective here though. He will get paid more money in one year than than I will ever see in my life. He is earning that money by playing a GAME.

All NFL players want long term contracts because it gives them security, but some players just aren't in the position to receive them. Unless our organization blatantly told him a bold faced lie then he has absolutely no reason to be upset about this.

Getting tagged probably offered him more 1 year security then any deal he would have signed.

Polo
02-20-2009, 09:49 AM
Dunta is better than a second corner.

If you put Dunta on any respectable defense then I think opinions of him change a bit.

If you put him on a defense like the Ravens, Titans, GreenBay, Vikings and I think he's a star...

It was widely reported that Dunta would have been a top free agent assuming all the players with expiring contracts hit the market...As in one of the top 3 or 4...

If we don't give Dunta the money, another team will...And I think that team would get their money's worth...

HOU-TEX
02-20-2009, 09:50 AM
We are getting a look at what a hand full of teams go through on a yearly basis. It appears the Texans organization has out grown it's Toughskins and is now trying on a pair of Levis.

In laymen'ss terms, the organization's balls are dropping. :tiphat:

Blake
02-20-2009, 09:53 AM
Getting tagged probably offered him more 1 year security then any deal he would have signed.

It would probably be about the same. Assuming he gets Gamble money he should get roughly 6 million signing bonus with 4 million for his first year. Then the roster bonus would kick in for 8-10 million.

So no, that is not an accurate statement.

El Tejano
02-20-2009, 09:53 AM
Getting tagged probably offered him more 1 year security then any deal he would have signed.

True. If anybody offered him a contract, you know it would have to be incentive based, nothing guaranteed. For all we know that's probably what the Texans put on the table. You can't blame any organization for that. Look at Cadillac Williams who had the same injury. He came back but didn't complete a full season.

Plus he would be smarter going this route. Say for instance we end up signing him to another 5 year 23 mil deal. After all is said and done, he's basically getting 6 years 32 mil which = 5.4 a year guaranteed vs. us just offering him 5 years 23 mil now = 4.6 a year.

To be honest the dude should be thanking the Texans even if he doesn't plan on being here next year because if he goes off this year he's going to get his money. If he doesn't, he still gets his money.

Kaiser Toro
02-20-2009, 09:57 AM
Dunta is better than a second corner.

If you put Dunta on any respectable defense then I think opinions of him change a bit.

If you put him on a defense like the Ravens, Titans, GreenBay, Vikings and I think he's a star...

It was widely reported that Dunta would have been a top free agent assuming all the players with expiring contracts hit the market...As in one of the top 3 or 4...

If we don't give Dunta the money, another team will...And I think that team would get their money's worth...

He got Top 5 money at his position. The tag itself is a tacit reflection of his value to the Texans. His public display since the tag is only hurting himself with the next contract and possibly the locker room next season.

If he is as good as he believes, then surely there will be suitors offering up draft picks to the Texans. No need to hold your breath, I do not condone suicide.

Htownsportsfan
02-20-2009, 09:59 AM
I don't have a problem with Dunta wanting to get all the money that he can.

Agreed.

However, I also dont have a problem with the Texans trying to Dunta for the his fair market value! The more money locked up by Dunta the smaller amount under the cap for other players. Both sides are going to do all they can to get the most money or best value in the deal thats just life in business, and sports is just really big business.

TimeKiller
02-20-2009, 10:04 AM
Dunta is going to make more in 1 quarter than I have made in the past 3 years combined.

I don't buy the "get while you can" argument because a player of Dunta's caliber doesn't worry about getting cut. If he's got a brain he knows as long as he's healthy he is a player in this league...OH WAIT....what about your career threatening injury that you've barely made a return from Dunta?!? What if how you played at the end of the season is what we're going to get? Because THAT WAS #2 CB MATERIAL, certainly a 23 mil garaunteed contract would be out of the question for that type of play

HoustonFrog
02-20-2009, 10:08 AM
I agree from what I heard from LZ yesterday

The market is big money now for CBs after Gamble and Nnamdi Asomugha numbers. Dante is probably thinking he is in between the two and deserves something between Gamble and Asomugha money. The Texans are looking at a guy coming of surgery who played half a season last year and who thinks his value needs to be proven or lower. So there is your gap. He plays the one year contract out and they see if he is himself for 16 games. That simple. I, personally, think that Dante is a hard hitter and leader on D but he isn't a lockdown guy that I've seen in other corners. You just can't throw money at a guy who may be limping around next year. So it should be interesting to see his play this year. I like the guy alot though and I like that he has spoken up on issues in the past.

Polo
02-20-2009, 10:18 AM
He got Top 5 money at his position. The tag itself is a tacit reflection of his value to the Texans. His public display since the tag is only hurting himself with the next contract and possibly the locker room next season.

If he is as good as he believes, then surely there will be suitors offering up draft picks to the Texans. No need to hold your breath, I do not condone suicide.

Well...I don't think that many teams would give up two number ones for any corner in the leauge...Teams rarely use the other franchise tag for a reason...

And I don't know about his public display, but I understand where he is coming from. At the end of the day, in general the fans nor the organization give a damn about Dunta past what he produces on the field despite the heart and passion he plays with...It's a business, and being such he should seek to make the best business decisions...

If he has a career ending injury then Texans aren't going to do anything extra special for him because 'he's Dunta', so why should he be content with deals that he doesn't feel are in his best interest?

At the end of the day though, it is what it is and I think he'll realize that, shut up and let his play do the talking.

GP
02-20-2009, 10:21 AM
Lol @ you thinking you would do anything different in his shoes. Players hate getting tagged because they want the long term contract with the signing bonus and some security. They play football. They dont manage a grocery store that will be there year after year. Especially after Dunta's injury he knows that his time in the NFL is limited. Every player gets as much as they can before they have to get out.

Who the hell are you to judge him really?

Ah, yes. I forgot that this is a non-judgmental place. LOL.

What you just said (the bolded part) is laughable. We ALL do it. It's why we're here. What I said is not judgmental, it's just reflective upon the reality of the situation:

I think Dunta has a lot of nerve acting like he got 'dissed. He worked hard to get back to playing form, but I think he's trying to ride that "energy" a little too hard right now. But I don't find it shocking that he's acting like he is about it.

There's such an entitlement mentality ALL THE WAY THROUGH this country. You can't find a corner of the country, nor a segment of the popluace, where it hasn't infected people.

Congrats to Dunta for banking a $10 million contract for what a lot of people believe is scarcely justified, being that he had such a serious injury and showed problems with footing and getting beaten a few times when he came back--He's getting the benefit of the doubt, and he's angry about it!

Would I do the same thing if I were in his shoes? Hard to say. Can't re-live your life or forecast how you'd react if you'd have lived it differently. I'd probably be conditioned (mentally and emotionally) to feel that I am worth more than I really am. That's the prevailing attitude of all Americans, it seems.

Poor pitiful us. Pass the Kleenex.

GP
02-20-2009, 10:24 AM
I agree from what I heard from LZ yesterday

The market is big money now for CBs after Gamble and Nnamdi Asomugha numbers. Dante is probably thinking he is in between the two and deserves something between Gamble and Asomugha money. The Texans are looking at a guy coming of surgery who played half a season last year and who thinks his value needs to be proven or lower. So there is your gap. He plays the one year contract out and they see if he is himself for 16 games. That simple. I, personally, think that Dante is a hard hitter and leader on D but he isn't a lockdown guy that I've seen in other corners. You just can't throw money at a guy who may be limping around next year. So it should be interesting to see his play this year. I like the guy alot though and I like that he has spoken up on issues in the past.

Somebody slap me.

I agree with the entirety of Frog's post.

Well put.

gtexan02
02-20-2009, 10:24 AM
edit

Spike
02-20-2009, 10:34 AM
This was the right move for the organization. Obviously, efforts were made to arrange a longer term deal. You have to believe if the Texans knew Dunta was back to full strength, this would have gotten done. Now we have 16 more games to make that determination.

Let me just say - I think his attitude is terrible. This is a business...big business, which will allow him to get paid a ton of money for one year's worth of work that is sufficient to keep him comfortable the rest of his life. The Texans promised him? Come on - all you can promise to do is negotiate in good faith. He and his agent should have made a promise not to entertain any other offers past the deadline, and this wouldn't have been necessary.

Battle-Red
02-20-2009, 10:44 AM
Heres to hoping he is fully recovered and he has 70 tackles 8-10 ints 3 forced fumbles 2 sacks 20 deflected passes, voted to the probowl, voted all pro, voted come back player of the year, gets paid accordingly next year, and continues it for years to come(of course that'll push him to 40+ million guaranteed area). Be great for all parties involved though.

Sal Rosenberg
02-20-2009, 10:54 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/6269456.html

I love the guy as a player but he needs to shut his mouth.I don't like Richard Smith either but he is making the Texans look bad and causing more drama than we need(Remember him throwing David Carr under the bus?Good move by the way).Take your 10 million and shut up.:aggressive:

dalemurphy
02-20-2009, 10:54 AM
This was the right move for the organization. Obviously, efforts were made to arrange a longer term deal. You have to believe if the Texans knew Dunta was back to full strength, this would have gotten done. Now we have 16 more games to make that determination.

Let me just say - I think his attitude is terrible. This is a business...big business, which will allow him to get paid a ton of money for one year's worth of work that is sufficient to keep him comfortable the rest of his life. The Texans promised him? Come on - all you can promise to do is negotiate in good faith. He and his agent should have made a promise not to entertain any other offers past the deadline, and this wouldn't have been necessary.


I'm not surprised by his attitude. All he did was express frustration and disappointment with the tag. I would expect that. I think Barrett had the best post about this, and I agree entirely with him. I also want to know why nobody picked up the phone and notified Dunta this was happening... However, my guess is that his agent was notified and his agent didn't get the news to Dunta.

Polo
02-20-2009, 10:57 AM
Why isn't anyone talking about how Rick Smith supposedly told Dunta he wouldn't be franchised only to end up doing it anyways...

Texecutioner
02-20-2009, 11:00 AM
Totally agreed. The guy hasn't hardly played in the last two years and we've had to suffer through his absence and he is really lucky that the team is holding him in such high regard especially when he isn't worth near a 9 to 10 Million dollar salary. I'm glad we tagged him and all and think it needed to be done, so we can evaluate him for one more season before deciding what we think he is worth but he needs to come to reality and realize that there is not a huge market out there for him after that injury and we have shown a lot of confidence in him. He needs to show more confidence in the organization now and prove that he is a pro bowl calibur type of player if he wants to get a long term contract like one.

hobie
02-20-2009, 11:07 AM
Well after coming off the injury, STFU and play....He's not getting that kind of $$ until he can prove himself this season, then start asking for more $$.. Honestly, this is why sports is rubbing me the wrong way... He's getting a 7 million dollar raise and he still fires his mouth off !!
Man, if you are not happy, fine, play your ass off this year and show everyone what ya got..then if you must leave, see ya...thanks for the years of service !!!

ChampionTexan
02-20-2009, 11:09 AM
Why isn't anyone talking about how Rick Smith supposedly told Dunta he wouldn't be franchised only to end up doing it anyways...

There are numerous posts in this thread referencing Dunta's assertion that Rich Smith lied, so I don't really know what you mean by your comment.

ArlingtonTexan
02-20-2009, 11:10 AM
Why isn't anyone talking about how Rick Smith supposedly told Dunta he wouldn't be franchised only to end up doing it anyways...

The problem here is that his agent told Dunta what the Texans said, so we are getting into territory where we are not sure what really happened. I personally been situation where a phrase like "we would rather not use the franchise tag" gets translated into "The Texans won't use the franchise tag"

that said, do I think the Texans are beyond directly lying or "changing thier mind after looking at the market" (insert you own BS phrase)? No.

Specnatz
02-20-2009, 11:12 AM
Why isn't anyone talking about how Rick Smith supposedly told Dunta he wouldn't be franchised only to end up doing it anyways...

That is just it we do not know that for sure. The crack reporting staff at the chronicle did not ask Rick Smith about it or ask Dunta agent if that was actually the case or did the agent lie to Dunta.

Errant Hothy
02-20-2009, 11:13 AM
Why isn't anyone talking about how Rick Smith supposedly told Dunta he wouldn't be franchised only to end up doing it anyways...

Rick Smith has done and will continue to do what is best for the team.

Are we sure that Rick Smith said that? The is a train of though out there (there being the interwebs) that Dunta's agent told him that Rick Smith said he wouldn't use the tag.

as Jerome Solomon said:
http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2009/02/post_81.html

The franchise tag is the biggest baddest weapon a team has in this type of negotiation. It's like your father's belt. Would your father ever say, "I promise I won't pull out my belt?" He is more likely to say, "Don't make me go get my belt," right?

You take the franchise tag off the table, and you don't have hand in the negotiations. You keep it in your back pocket, and the players is under pressure to get a deal done.

Taking it off the table makes no sense.

Rick Smith isn't that stupid.

But Dunta says Smith made that promise to his agent Jason Chayut, and even as shady as some agents can be, Chayut has no reason to invent such a tale. This is more than a little miscommunication. It's just strange.

I think both sides are just taking a hard line in the press in terms of negotiating a potential new contract.

Polo
02-20-2009, 11:13 AM
Well John McClain said that he was gonna ask Rick and Gary about that at the press conference so we'll see...

HOU-TEX
02-20-2009, 11:16 AM
That is just it we do not know that for sure. The crack reporting staff at the chronicle did not ask Rick Smith about it or ask Dunta agent if that was actually the case or did the agent lie to Dunta.

Smith and Kubiak are in Indy and will be doing their Combine interview today. McSloth said he was going to make it a priority to ask about the promise to Dunta.

I reckon we'll hear about the interview later on. I'm not sure what time they're up.

*edit: Polo beat me to it. :)

Specnatz
02-20-2009, 11:17 AM
Well John McClain said that he was gonna ask Rick and Gary about that at the press conference so we'll see...

Why the hell didn't he ask that yesterday after he had talked to Dunta, what a freakin dumbass.

WolverineFan
02-20-2009, 11:18 AM
Only an NFL athlete could complain about making a guaranteed $10 million dollars in one year. Freaking prima donnas.

Errant Hothy
02-20-2009, 11:19 AM
Would it be such a horrible thing is Smith did tell Dunta that he wasn't going to use the tag, and then changed his mind as the free agent market started to sort it out and there are no viable replacements for Dunta on the market?

El Tejano
02-20-2009, 11:20 AM
I think those that want to make the argument that Dunta is just what he can while he can because the organization is not going to care about him if he gets hurt need to remember how we treated Dunta while he was rehabbing.

If you recall, there were many posts on this board about the advantages and disadvantages, the possibilities and impossibilities of letting go of Dunta because he could possibly never come back from the injury or be the same Dunta.

The Texans were at a crossroads then, and decided to show that loyalty at a time that Dunta's future was VERY uncertain by keeping him and not cutting him.

BigBull17
02-20-2009, 11:21 AM
Dunta is better than a second corner.
If you put Dunta on any respectable defense then I think opinions of him change a bit.

If you put him on a defense like the Ravens, Titans, GreenBay, Vikings and I think he's a star...

It was widely reported that Dunta would have been a top free agent assuming all the players with expiring contracts hit the market...As in one of the top 3 or 4...

If we don't give Dunta the money, another team will...And I think that team would get their money's worth...

But he's not a lock down #1 either. He is decent in coverage, but he can get picked on. We'll see with new DB coach/DC if anything changes.

Why isn't anyone talking about how Rick Smith supposedly told Dunta he wouldn't be franchised only to end up doing it anyways...

I'm sure Justice is getting ready to post a BLOG about how Rick Smith is a insecure liar blah blah....Its Pro Football, shocker they lie.

HOU-TEX
02-20-2009, 11:21 AM
Why the hell didn't he ask that yesterday after he had talked to Dunta, what a freakin dumbass.

I don't want to sound like I'm taking up for McLame, but for the Texans sake I hope Smith and Kubiak are busy looking at potential players rather than taking time to answer McLame's questions.

Errant Hothy
02-20-2009, 11:23 AM
I don't want to sound like I'm taking up for McLame, but for the Texans sake I hope Smith and Kubiak are busy looking at potential players rather than taking time to answer McLame's questions.

I'm pretty sure the NFL schedules their press conferences at the combine, and I'm pretty sure the NFL makes them attend said press conferences. Or in other words, I don't think the press conferences Smth and Kubiak have today are an option, they are mandatory.

False Start
02-20-2009, 11:25 AM
I wish I had the luxury of making 10 million a year. As much as I like Dunta, he needs to shut up and play.

Specnatz
02-20-2009, 11:41 AM
I don't want to sound like I'm taking up for McLame, but for the Texans sake I hope Smith and Kubiak are busy looking at potential players rather than taking time to answer McLame's questions.

In his article he has a quote from Rick Smith so where did he get that from?

HOU-TEX
02-20-2009, 11:41 AM
I'm pretty sure the NFL schedules their press conferences at the combine, and I'm pretty sure the NFL makes them attend said press conferences. Or in other words, I don't think the press conferences Smth and Kubiak have today are an option, they are mandatory.

I know this. As I stated above, I'm not sure of the time they are scheduled.

HOU-TEX
02-20-2009, 11:43 AM
In his article he has a quote from Rick Smith so where did he get that from?

I dunno, Spec. McClain's in Indy too, so maybe a brief chat in passing or something.

dalemurphy
02-20-2009, 11:55 AM
some news:

According to McClain, Dunta never said he found out about the tag through the media. In fact, McClain swears he knows that not to be true from Dunta's mouth. I told McClain that I saw it in the story from NFl.com/ Yahoo, and he rightly pointed out that it wasn't a quote for Dunta.

Ole Miss Texan
02-20-2009, 11:55 AM
Only an NFL athlete could complain about making a guaranteed $10 million dollars in one year. Freaking prima donnas.
I think Dunta's upset because he feels he was lied to or at least misled. He really likes Houston and the organization and wants respect. I don't think his feelings have much to do with the money (except that he wants a long term deal). He's a very straightforward, tell it like it is person and he expects the same in return. The details (what was said behind closed doors) are hard to know, so most of this is speculation.

But he's not a lock down #1 either. He is decent in coverage, but he can get picked on. We'll see with new DB coach/DC if anything changes.

The thing about the franchise tag is more about the value that particular player has to the team... not overall league value. A lot of the guys getting paid Top 5 money aren't true lock down #1 corners. Dunta isn't this but he has just as much value to the Texans due to our current CB situation, other areas of need we have to address, and maybe even the market of CBs out there we'd look at to replacing him.

Ole Miss Texan
02-20-2009, 11:59 AM
some news:

According to McClain, Dunta never said he found out about the tag through the media. In fact, McClain swears he knows that not to be true from Dunta's mouth. I told McClain that I saw it in the story from NFl.com/ Yahoo, and he rightly pointed out that it wasn't a quote for Dunta.

That's such good news. I feel like the Texans' front office are classy. When it's something like this, I think you HAVE to tell the parties involved first. It's like any job/business decision in life. For instance, if your moving to a new job/company... it's probably better to tell your boss first before letting him/her hear about it elsewhere. Other wise you burn bridges. In this case it's the other way around. If there's a business decision to be made, it may be nice for the management to tell those involved before blindsiding them with a company wide email.

A little unrelated but sorta related: Is it true Tracy McGrady made the announcement he'd be out the rest of the season and would require surgery before he told Adelman/Morey? Is it true they found out on ESPN? If so, that's absolutely insane.

dalemurphy
02-20-2009, 12:02 PM
Only an NFL athlete could complain about making a guaranteed $10 million dollars in one year. Freaking prima donnas.


Give me a break! If you knew you were worth $25 million in the marketplace and someone used a legal tool to keep you and only give you 40% of that money, you wouldn't have a beef with that?

if you answer that you wouldn't, one of two things are true:

1. you're a liar
2. you're nuts

Money is all about perspective. I guarantee that there are plenty of people in the world with much, much worse economic circumstances than you that would question how you handle and value money. Does that make you a prima donna?

Texanmike02
02-20-2009, 12:13 PM
Well yesterday I kind of went off. The truth is, this is the closest thing to a free market economy left. Whatever Daunta can get he's worth. I think he's not getting that bad of a deal at 9mil. The injury wasn't his fault, but it is his problem. We want to see if he's back. If he's actually back, he'll get paid. If he's not, he got paid 9mil to find out if he was or not. From our prespective that is a good deal.

At the same time, he knows he's probably worth more than the 9mil. We'll have to wait and see what he's really worth. "Sorry Daunta, if you want guaranteed money today, you're going to have to take less than you think you're worth. If you're really worth what you think you are, come out, play for a year and prove it."

I also think there is a bit of posturing going on here. We slap him with the tag. He says "I don't know if I want to play in houston now". Both are smoke and mirrors. He'll get signed for somewhere between 19 and 21 mil is my guess.

In summary, we don't know what he's worth. At worst, he's worth a guarantee of about 12 mil. At best, its probably about 23-25. If we work out a deal between now and then it should be in the 19-20 range. We'll give him more than the low end if he'll accept less than the highest possibility. Both sides should absorb equal risk. The league has given the team a tool in the form of the franchise tag, to find out for sure what he's actually worth. If neither side agrees on the risk they are willing to take in this situation, he should play for the 9 mil, audition for us, and we'll pick up the discussion next year.

Mike

Goldensilence
02-20-2009, 12:36 PM
Give me a break! If you knew you were worth $25 million in the marketplace and someone used a legal tool to keep you and only give you 40% of that money, you wouldn't have a beef with that?

if you answer that you wouldn't, one of two things are true:

1. you're a liar
2. you're nuts

Money is all about perspective. I guarantee that there are plenty of people in the world with much, much worse economic circumstances than you that would question how you handle and value money. Does that make you a prima donna?

I usually agree with you but asking for perspective on money at that amount does not equate to me. It's one thing to try and size the amount down to well if I am making 7.50 an hour and I know i am worth more and can get 10.50 an hour but my current employer legally blocks me that's one thing. That extra 3.00 an hour means a LOT.

Now if i am making 3.25 MILLION a year and I think overall i am worth much more and I am sure on the market I can get more. However, my current employer blocks me from seeing my market value(for ONE year) BUT, gives me 9 MILLION for that year. Would i be upset?

Heck no! Difference is with the second scenario I'm not struggling to make bills. Not struggling to see how I am going to make tuition, much less how I am going to pay it off later.

Perspective would have Dunta go look at the unemployment lines around the country. Perspective would have Dunta reading the headlines saying 600,000 jobs lost last month. Perspective would have Dunta looking at people like my sister: single mom, working part time, going to school full time and taking out school loans for a better future.

Screw Dunta and his perspective. Take the 9 million. Shut up and play.

dalemurphy
02-20-2009, 12:43 PM
I usually agree with you but asking for perspective on money at that amount does not equate to me. It's one thing to try and size the amount down to well if I am making 7.50 an hour and I know i am worth more and can get 10.50 an hour but my current employer legally blocks me that's one thing. That extra 3.00 an hour means a LOT.

Now if i am making 3.25 MILLION a year and I think overall i am worth much more and I am sure on the market I can get more. However, my current employer blocks me from seeing my market value(for ONE year) BUT, gives me 9 MILLION for that year. Would i be upset?

Heck no! Difference is with the second scenario I'm not struggling to make bills. Not struggling to see how I am going to make tuition, much less how I am going to pay it off later.

Perspective would have Dunta go look at the unemployment lines around the country. Perspective would have Dunta reading the headlines saying 600,000 jobs lost last month. Perspective would have Dunta looking at people like my sister: single mom, working part time, going to school full time and taking out school loans for a better future.

Screw Dunta and his perspective. Take the 9 million. Shut up and play.



He's going to play. When he made the comments, he prefaced it by saying that he knows it's a lot of money and he's excited about the money, but he's upset because he felt he was dealt with dishonestly. Honestly, if I was in his position, knowing his career could end on any play, I would be doing what I could to get the guaranteed money. Furthermore, I'd be very upset if I was told they wouldn't tag me and then they did at the last minute.

You know, it's not all about buying nice cars. I'm sure he has a list of things he wants to do in the community, for friends and family, etc... If he sits out and refuses to play then I would be upset. For expressing frustration, I don't undertand why people have a problem with it. He's not being a jerk and using those phrases like, "I gotta put food on the table". He's just angry because he felt he was treated dishonestly and it could cost him $10 million, as a result.

Goldensilence
02-20-2009, 01:03 PM
He's going to play. When he made the comments, he prefaced it by saying that he knows it's a lot of money and he's excited about the money, but he's upset because he felt he was dealt with dishonestly. Honestly, if I was in his position, knowing his career could end on any play, I would be doing what I could to get the guaranteed money. Furthermore, I'd be very upset if I was told they wouldn't tag me and then they did at the last minute.

You know, it's not all about buying nice cars. I'm sure he has a list of things he wants to do in the community, for friends and family, etc... If he sits out and refuses to play then I would be upset. For expressing frustration, I don't undertand why people have a problem with it. He's not being a jerk and using those phrases like, "I gotta put food on the table". He's just angry because he felt he was treated dishonestly and it could cost him $10 million, as a result.

People are upset because he's voicing frustration at getting paid 9 million for a season in a bad recession.

9 million a year is going allow him to put " a lot of food on the table". I'd understand if he was a UDFA or a late round pick whose career might end at practice or on one play. But after he signed his rookie contract I really doubt he'd ever have to worry about "putting food on the table" again.

If being treated dishonestly still net me that kind of contract.... again I'd be fine with that. He can dress it up any way but at the day he's likely going to get paid more then most of the posters here will see in a lifetime and he's frustrated by that.

Ole Miss Texan
02-20-2009, 01:05 PM
9 million a year is going allow him to put " a lot of food on the table". I'd understand if he was a UDFA or a late round pick whose career might end at practice or on one play. But after he signed his rookie contract I really doubt he'd ever have to worry about "putting food on the table" again.


There's a huge misconception when it comes to professional sports players and their salaries. Everyone assumes they're making so much money and that they are living all fine and dandy. The truth is SO many football/basketball players are actually struggling to get by. Struggling... I just used that term extremely loosely. It's not like they have millions saved up in their savings account.

To all of us, it seems like so much. Even rookie contracts... I'd LOVE to be making $300K a year! But in actuality that money goes quickly. Many of these players come from nothing. Even if nothing, the vast majority, their families never had much growing up. When a player finally makes it, they aren't being asked to provide for Family and friends... it's assumed. EVERYBODY comes out of the wood work and is getting some sort of share. Mom, dad, brothers, their possies, etc.

It's not uncommon for sports players to have to take out loans b/c they are "being taken advantage" of and then they have to repay their debts as they get paid. A lot of the guys are 21-26 years of age and all of a sudden they're making more money than they can dream of. They go out and are spending $20K+ on their credit cards a month, buying this and that.

Now you can fault them for for Giving their money to family/friends, you can fault them for not having a budget/being good with money, you can fault them for spending WAY beyond their means. I'm not excusing that one bit but I can see where they are coming from. They come from families that make $20-$40K a year and have to feed 5 mouths to all of sudden being the baby making all the money for the whole family, paying for everyones stuff. I would suffice to say that if you take the average person and double their salary.. they will not live in their means. They'll overspend, they'll blow all the money. How many normal Americans are in over their head in debt because of this? A LOT. It's not b/c they aren't making enough, it's because they don't know how to be smart with their money.

These players are all playing for their second contract. That's when they FINALLY hit it big, if they're smart can begin wiping out most of their debt, they are a little older, a little more mature, etc.

Does Dunta fall in this category? I have no idea. But he played his heart out for his second contract. I'm not saying what's fair/not fair, right or wrong. The injury is a huge concern. But I can imagine he's ready for the long term deal that finally takes care of him and his family. Family in pro sports is not just wife and kids. It's wife, kids, momma, mom's husband, uncle, aunt, cousins, close friends, etc.

EDIT: sorry this kind of turned into a rant. I just kept writing and writing. Goldensilence, this wasn't really meant for you but just addressing a big issue that so many people have a problem with (and understandably). Just quoted you cuz you were the most recent post :)

dalemurphy
02-20-2009, 01:11 PM
When fans rip into players for contract negotiations, you are essentially saying that you'd rather the owners have more money. Why isn't anyone outraged that Bob McNair is squabbling over a couple million dollars when he's a billionaire. As a fan, if you have a problem with the amount of money that is in the game, then don't spend your money watching it. I quit on baseball largely because of the money. Those guys are prima donnas and I could no longer, in good conscience, support the product.

However, I just don't see reason for outrage with Dunta. Again, his only complaint, is that he was treated dishonestly. That's a reasonable complaint.

gtexan02
02-20-2009, 01:23 PM
When fans rip into players for contract negotiations, you are essentially saying that you'd rather the owners have more money. Why isn't anyone outraged that Bob McNair is squabbling over a couple million dollars when he's a billionaire. As a fan, if you have a problem with the amount of money that is in the game, then don't spend your money watching it. I quit on baseball largely because of the money. Those guys are prima donnas and I could no longer, in good conscience, support the product.

However, I just don't see reason for outrage with Dunta. Again, his only complaint, is that he was treated dishonestly. That's a reasonable complaint.

When Dunta Robinson agreed to sign a contract and play in the NFL he knew the rules. He knew the rules of his rookie contract, he knew the rules of free agency, etc. When he signed on that dotted line, he was agreeing to follow those rules.

The franchise tag is a rule put in place by the owners and the players association. Both sides agreed on it, and when Robinson signed the contract, he was agreeing to abide by the rules as well.

I am tired of the players complaining about the franchise tag. If they hate it so much, why did they agree to put it into the CBA? Its not like McNair found some major legal loopholes to trap Robinson here. He always knew the tag was a possibility and he always knew how it works. It was designed exactly for people like him.

I don't care about the money. I don't care if hes complaining even. What bothers me is that he's threatening to stop participating in team activities because he doesnt like that the team used a legitimate mean to keep him here. Thats BS in my opinion.

If you don't like the franchise tag, get the NFLPA to change it, put it into your contract that a team can't use it on you, or play somewhere else.

bah007
02-20-2009, 01:25 PM
When fans rip into players for contract negotiations, you are essentially saying that you'd rather the owners have more money. Why isn't anyone outraged that Bob McNair is squabbling over a couple million dollars when he's a billionaire. As a fan, if you have a problem with the amount of money that is in the game, then don't spend your money watching it. I quit on baseball largely because of the money. Those guys are prima donnas and I could no longer, in good conscience, support the product.

However, I just don't see reason for outrage with Dunta. Again, his only complaint, is that he was treated dishonestly. That's a reasonable complaint.

Does McNair negotiate player contracts?

I thought Smith did?

gtexan02
02-20-2009, 01:27 PM
When fans rip into players for contract negotiations, you are essentially saying that you'd rather the owners have more money. Why isn't anyone outraged that Bob McNair is squabbling over a couple million dollars when he's a billionaire.

We have cap implications to think about here too. If McNair just gave him whatever he wanted, we'd be screwed.

Polo
02-20-2009, 01:32 PM
Dunta said he was mad because they lied to him...Not because they tagged him...

dalemurphy
02-20-2009, 01:36 PM
When Dunta Robinson agreed to sign a contract and play in the NFL he knew the rules. He knew the rules of his rookie contract, he knew the rules of free agency, etc. When he signed on that dotted line, he was agreeing to follow those rules.

The franchise tag is a rule put in place by the owners and the players association. Both sides agreed on it, and when Robinson signed the contract, he was agreeing to abide by the rules as well.

I am tired of the players complaining about the franchise tag. If they hate it so much, why did they agree to put it into the CBA? Its not like McNair found some major legal loopholes to trap Robinson here. He always knew the tag was a possibility and he always knew how it works. It was designed exactly for people like him.

I don't care about the money. I don't care if hes complaining even. What bothers me is that he's threatening to stop participating in team activities because he doesnt like that the team used a legitimate mean to keep him here. Thats BS in my opinion.

If you don't like the franchise tag, get the NFLPA to change it, put it into your contract that a team can't use it on you, or play somewhere else.

Well, a few things. He's worked off only one contract in his career: his rookie contract. When he signed that, he was powerless. He wasn't part of the NFLPA and had nothing to do with the negotiations that put that rule in place.

Second, if he chooses not to participate in OTAs and/or training camp, he's using a legal tool for negotiations as well. Certainly, he has a right not to show up for voluntary workouts.

He's made no threats other than to express how upset he is. He did say that he's committed to his teammates and the city of Houston. As a fan, I want Dunta to be at the team functions, prepare and have a great season. I also want him to sign an extension that doesn't hurt our ability to sign FAs and keep our players going forward. All that being said, I'm not going to turn on him simply because he makes my life as a fan a little uneasy. He's done nothing wrong and I respect him as a man and I realize he has priorities in his life higher than keeping me entertained and happy as a fan. So, any fans that are jealous of the money he's making or upset because he's made their fandom inconvenient- get over yourself and grow up!

gtexan02
02-20-2009, 01:48 PM
Well, a few things. He's worked off only one contract in his career: his rookie contract. When he signed that, he was powerless. He wasn't part of the NFLPA and had nothing to do with the negotiations that put that rule in place.

Second, if he chooses not to participate in OTAs and/or training camp, he's using a legal tool for negotiations as well. Certainly, he has a right not to show up for voluntary workouts.

He's made no threats other than to express how upset he is. He did say that he's committed to his teammates and the city of Houston. As a fan, I want Dunta to be at the team functions, prepare and have a great season. I also want him to sign an extension that doesn't hurt our ability to sign FAs and keep our players going forward. All that being said, I'm not going to turn on him simply because he makes my life as a fan a little uneasy. He's done nothing wrong and I respect him as a man and I realize he has priorities in his life higher than keeping me entertained and happy as a fan. So, any fans that are jealous of the money he's making or upset because he's made their fandom inconvenient- get over yourself and grow up!

Just out of curiosity, are you sure training camp and OTAs are optional? I was under the impression that they were mandatory

Texan JBZ
02-20-2009, 01:52 PM
You all know that I'm a huge D-Rob fan. Imo, he's the heart and soul of this franchise. He should try to get as much money as he possibly can with his new contract. With that being said, I have to admit I'm a little pissed at his reaction to getting tagged. There are much better players than Dunta that have had the franchise tag slapped on them. And they all seem to react the same way about it even though they know it's perfectly legal for the front office to choose this option with them. My biggest problem is that if the Texans did offer him a contract similar to the one Gamble signed and his agent turned it down, then that's Dunta's problem, not the Texans. A contract that size for a guy who still has somewhat of an uncertain future at this point as far as his production level is more than fair. There are better ways of going about things than the way he chose. I'm preety sure that the tag was more of an insurance policy for the Texans to keep other teams away while they hammer out a long tem deal, which is smart business on their end. What it's sounding like is that Dunta doesn't want to be a Texan any longer. If that's the case then screw him. Let him go somewhere else.

imatexan
02-20-2009, 02:22 PM
There's a huge misconception when it comes to professional sports players and their salaries. Everyone assumes they're making so much money and that they are living all fine and dandy. The truth is SO many football/basketball players are actually struggling to get by. Struggling... I just used that term extremely loosely. It's not like they have millions saved up in their savings account.

To all of us, it seems like so much. Even rookie contracts... I'd LOVE to be making $300K a year! But in actuality that money goes quickly. Many of these players come from nothing. Even if nothing, the vast majority, their families never had much growing up. When a player finally makes it, they aren't being asked to provide for Family and friends... it's assumed. EVERYBODY comes out of the wood work and is getting some sort of share. Mom, dad, brothers, their possies, etc.

It's not uncommon for sports players to have to take out loans b/c they are "being taken advantage" of and then they have to repay their debts as they get paid. A lot of the guys are 21-26 years of age and all of a sudden they're making more money than they can dream of. They go out and are spending $20K+ on their credit cards a month, buying this and that.

Now you can fault them for for Giving their money to family/friends, you can fault them for not having a budget/being good with money, you can fault them for spending WAY beyond their means. I'm not excusing that one bit but I can see where they are coming from. They come from families that make $20-$40K a year and have to feed 5 mouths to all of sudden being the baby making all the money for the whole family, paying for everyones stuff. I would suffice to say that if you take the average person and double their salary.. they will not live in their means. They'll overspend, they'll blow all the money. How many normal Americans are in over their head in debt because of this? A LOT. It's not b/c they aren't making enough, it's because they don't know how to be smart with their money.

These players are all playing for their second contract. That's when they FINALLY hit it big, if they're smart can begin wiping out most of their debt, they are a little older, a little more mature, etc.

Does Dunta fall in this category? I have no idea. But he played his heart out for his second contract. I'm not saying what's fair/not fair, right or wrong. The injury is a huge concern. But I can imagine he's ready for the long term deal that finally takes care of him and his family. Family in pro sports is not just wife and kids. It's wife, kids, momma, mom's husband, uncle, aunt, cousins, close friends, etc.

EDIT: sorry this kind of turned into a rant. I just kept writing and writing. Goldensilence, this wasn't really meant for you but just addressing a big issue that so many people have a problem with (and understandably). Just quoted you cuz you were the most recent post :)


Good post.

badboy
02-20-2009, 02:29 PM
Let's go to the next possible step. Dunta gets a offer sheet comparable to other CB signing. We can get a 1st this draft and another next year. That is pretty tempting. A package could be offered to trade up and get Malcom Jenkins. Do you take the picks or match the offer?

Kaiser Toro
02-20-2009, 02:36 PM
Let's go to the next possible step. Dunta gets a offer sheet comparable to other CB signing. We can get a 1st this draft and another next year. That is pretty tempting. A package could be offered to trade up and get Malcom Jenkins. Do you take the picks or match the offer?

I would take the picks in a heart beat.

dtran04
02-20-2009, 02:45 PM
All in all, if Rick Smith promised not to use the franchise tag, that would have been stupid, moronic, idiotic, etc. People would be calling for his head on a platter if he allowed Dunta to just get up and leave with zero compensation.

If anything, I would do the opposite and THREATEN to use the franchise tag. If guys hate it so much, they would sign the long term deal.

badboy
02-20-2009, 02:47 PM
I would take the picks in a heart beat.
That's my thought. Next year does not excite me especially as deep as this draft is. What would you do? I realize it depends on where the picks are but a lot of potential.

Ole Miss Texan
02-20-2009, 02:52 PM
Let's go to the next possible step. Dunta gets a offer sheet comparable to other CB signing. We can get a 1st this draft and another next year. That is pretty tempting. A package could be offered to trade up and get Malcom Jenkins. Do you take the picks or match the offer?

I would take it in a heartbeat too. But if Dunta goes to another team like in this scenario, it's more likely the Texans and that team will negotiate some sort of trade. It may not be two 1st rounders but something "close" in value to that. We may even feel fine getting a 1st and a 2nd rounder or something... who knows.

But I'd find it unlikely any team would give up two 1st round picks for him, they'll try to negotiate.

dalemurphy
02-20-2009, 02:57 PM
I would take it in a heartbeat too. But if Dunta goes to another team like in this scenario, it's more likely the Texans and that team will negotiate some sort of trade. It may not be two 1st rounders but something "close" in value to that. We may even feel fine getting a 1st and a 2nd rounder or something... who knows.

But I'd find it unlikely any team would give up two 1st round picks for him, they'll try to negotiate.

Nobody is going to give up a 1st round pick and sign him to a huge deal. There's no chance! He hasn't proven himself post-injury on game tape. His injury is the reason we have locked him up- a team from the outside isn't going to throw guaranteed money that we aren't willing to and also give us quality draft picks.

Ole Miss Texan
02-20-2009, 02:57 PM
That's my thought. Next year does not excite me especially as deep as this draft is. What would you do? I realize it depends on where the picks are but a lot of potential.

SS Eric Berry from Tennessee would be a guy I'd consider trading up for next year if we got most of the problems addressed on D this season.

This year add a FA D-lineman, 1st rd SLB Brian Cushing, 2nd round CB like DJ Moore, Sean Smith?

Then next year move up for Berry and we'd have a TERRIFIC Defense. That doesn't even address the fact we'd have an extra 1st rounder this year.

Ole Miss Texan
02-20-2009, 03:01 PM
Nobody is going to give up a 1st round pick and sign him to a huge deal. There's no chance! He hasn't proven himself post-injury on game tape. His injury is the reason we have locked him up- a team from the outside isn't going to throw guaranteed money that we aren't willing to and also give us quality draft picks.

I would find it hard to believe too. However unlikely, some team could be desperate enough. He could have more immediate impact as a CB on a team than a 1st rounder like Vontae Davis though.

I would think that IF for some reason we agree to some trade, we'd have to address the CB situation early this year. Reeves and Bennet would be starters. Faggins would be out there a lot until Molden comes back healthy and that's assuming he'd be 100% too. Yikes!

GP
02-20-2009, 03:01 PM
This thread is getting close to that :deadhorse area...

Jackie Chiles
02-20-2009, 03:02 PM
some news:

According to McClain, Dunta never said he found out about the tag through the media. In fact, McClain swears he knows that not to be true from Dunta's mouth. I told McClain that I saw it in the story from NFl.com/ Yahoo, and he rightly pointed out that it wasn't a quote for Dunta.

You are correct:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcsouth/0-7-559/Texans--Smith-responds-to-Robinson-s-charge.html

This has some stuff that clears up a lot of the questions.

badboy
02-20-2009, 03:16 PM
Nobody is going to give up a 1st round pick and sign him to a huge deal. There's no chance! He hasn't proven himself post-injury on game tape. His injury is the reason we have locked him up- a team from the outside isn't going to throw guaranteed money that we aren't willing to and also give us quality draft picks.If he is not worth a 1st this year, why all the screams about not giving him a big long term deal?

IMO he should be worth a top 25 first this year and maybe a 3rd.

bah007
02-20-2009, 03:23 PM
I would take the picks in a heart beat.

So would I.

Use it as ammo to trade up for Malcolm Jenkins this year or Eric Berry next year.

But I bet Dunta is worth a 2nd this year and a 2nd next year as maximum value.

Texanmike02
02-20-2009, 03:28 PM
When fans rip into players for contract negotiations, you are essentially saying that you'd rather the owners have more money. Why isn't anyone outraged that Bob McNair is squabbling over a couple million dollars when he's a billionaire. As a fan, if you have a problem with the amount of money that is in the game, then don't spend your money watching it. I quit on baseball largely because of the money. Those guys are prima donnas and I could no longer, in good conscience, support the product.

However, I just don't see reason for outrage with Dunta. Again, his only complaint, is that he was treated dishonestly. That's a reasonable complaint.

That's not what I'm saying. Though, most of the owners did something REALLY productive to have the money. Mcnair is a businessman and creates jobs for people all over the place (but this isn't an economics discussion, we don't need to go into specific numbers or anything else) so I don't min him having money.

What I'm saying is that in times like these, when people are hurting... its foolish of someone like daunta to complain about 9 mil a year. How many people out there would complain about that? How many people really want to go cheer for someone who is upset because they are only making 5x what I'm going to make in my career instead of 10x.


Mike

badboy
02-20-2009, 03:32 PM
So would I.

Use it as ammo to trade up for Malcolm Jenkins this year or Eric Berry next year.

But I bet Dunta is worth a 2nd this year and a 2nd next year as maximum value.If this is true, then he gets no offers and that should help the negotiation with Texans. At some point he has to asks his agent, "if no one else wants me enough to offer a good deal, maybe I better sign long term here."

TheRealJoker
02-20-2009, 03:37 PM
I'd take two 2nds for Dunta. He's an unknown quantity post injury and we can recoup the two 2nds we gave up for Schaub while also adding valuable depth to our team.

Polo
02-20-2009, 03:38 PM
You all know that I'm a huge D-Rob fan. Imo, he's the heart and soul of this franchise. He should try to get as much money as he possibly can with his new contract. With that being said, I have to admit I'm a little pissed at his reaction to getting tagged. There are much better players than Dunta that have had the franchise tag slapped on them. And they all seem to react the same way about it even though they know it's perfectly legal for the front office to choose this option with them. My biggest problem is that if the Texans did offer him a contract similar to the one Gamble signed and his agent turned it down, then that's Dunta's problem, not the Texans. A contract that size for a guy who still has somewhat of an uncertain future at this point as far as his production level is more than fair. There are better ways of going about things than the way he chose. I'm preety sure that the tag was more of an insurance policy for the Texans to keep other teams away while they hammer out a long tem deal, which is smart business on their end. What it's sounding like is that Dunta doesn't want to be a Texan any longer. If that's the case then screw him. Let him go somewhere else.

Dunta said he was upset that he was lied to....Not that he was franchised

But your post in the perfect example of why he's trying to do the best deal for his sake...Because fans and ownership (in general) only care about what Dunta can produce on the field...

Don't have a cut throat attitude when it comes to cutting ties with players and not expect them to have a cut throat attitude when it comes to the business side of things as well...

How much he's making compared to fans doesn't matter...All of you are making more than homeless people but I don't see y'all just taking what your employers give you and shutting up...

There's probably homeless people saying that they can't believe someone would complain about making $5.00 an hour...It's all relative...you only know what you know...

badboy
02-20-2009, 04:02 PM
I'd take two 2nds for Dunta. He's an unknown quantity post injury and we can recoup the two 2nds we gave up for Schaub while also adding valuable depth to our team.Hmm. Not for me I think. Team would probably be below us in draft making it a low second round that does not give you a starter. There would be no potential I believe to trade up for Jenkins and no CB late in 2nd gives you a starter.

dalemurphy
02-20-2009, 04:11 PM
If he is not worth a 1st this year, why all the screams about not giving him a big long term deal?

IMO he should be worth a top 25 first this year and maybe a 3rd.

He's not worth the combination of huge money and the draft pick.

The Texans will pay their 1st round draft pick (15th pick) around $10 million of guaranteed money for 5 years.

To get Dunta, a team would have to give him about $25 million guaranteed over 5 years, plus whatever the trade compensation would be. Certainly, after the injury he sufffered, that would be a ton to risk.

dtran04
02-20-2009, 04:18 PM
According to latest article in chron.com, if Rick Smith really gave him a contract that would make him "one of the highest paid" at his position, then Dunta really has an inflated value of what he's worth. He's in for a shock if he starts shopping around.

Jackie Chiles
02-20-2009, 04:18 PM
I don't think there is any chance that the Texans trade Dunta this season. If you read what Rick said at the combine he makes it clear that they want to give Frank Bush all the help he can get in his first year on the job. Dunta is not going anywhere THIS year. I imagine we will try to fix our pass rush this offseason and if we fail to reach a long term agreement with Dunta before 2010 we will either franchise him with the specific idea of trading him or we will let him walk and target a CB early in that draft.

dalemurphy
02-20-2009, 04:30 PM
According to latest article in chron.com, if Rick Smith really gave him a contract that would make him "one of the highest paid" at his position, then Dunta really has an inflated value of what he's worth. He's in for a shock if he starts shopping around.

Kelvin Hayden just got a 5yr $45 million deal ( he can't even play man )
Vernon Carey jus got a 6yr $42 million deal ( not bad for an average RT)
Asomugha just got $28 million guaranteed for possibly only 2 seasons


My guess is that Dunta, if he passed physicals, would probably get something like 6 yrs and $50 million with half of it guaranteed.

Mailman
02-20-2009, 04:48 PM
McClain is on 610 right now. He reports that the Texans definitely offered Dunta at least 23 million guaranteed but Dunta thought he deserved more. If that's true, he needs to stop smoking the stuff his agent's feeding him because he is not worth more than what Chris Gamble got just a few months ago.

Errant Hothy
02-20-2009, 04:58 PM
Dude, you mean what you can gather from pure speculation. You have no idea what he was offered and with what incentives. And you are speculating again that he wants more than Gamble got.

See post above.

Sounds like Dunta was offered 6 years, 23 million quarented.

And said no.

Ole Miss Texan
02-20-2009, 05:09 PM
Sounds like Dunta was offered 6 years, 23 million quarented.

And said no.
:thud:

Ole Miss Texan
02-20-2009, 05:11 PM
I wonder if he said no more because of how the deal is structured. Maybe they've got the years/salary/gtd stuff down but maybe much of his salary is geared towards incentives?

I'd like to see an incentive laiden contract for him but that's something Dunta and his agent could be balking at.

Mailman
02-20-2009, 05:13 PM
I wonder if he said no more because of how the deal is structured. Maybe they've got the years/salary/gtd stuff down but maybe much of his salary is geared towards incentives?

I'd like to see an incentive laiden contract for him but that's something Dunta and his agent could be balking at.

I imagine he said no because he wants more in guaranteed money. It's almost always about that because that's the carrot they're all chasing.

Silver Oak
02-20-2009, 05:14 PM
just an annoyance, but the article on NFL.com has our GM being one "Michael Smith". :foottap:

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/20/texans-gm-smith-responds-to-robinson/

infantrycak
02-20-2009, 05:19 PM
I wonder if he said no more because of how the deal is structured. Maybe they've got the years/salary/gtd stuff down but maybe much of his salary is geared towards incentives?

I'd like to see an incentive laiden contract for him but that's something Dunta and his agent could be balking at.

I imagine he said no because he wants more in guaranteed money. It's almost always about that because that's the carrot they're all chasing.

It may very well be the structure. The last year or two you have seen more deals like Jacques Reeves'. Much of his guaranteed money is the salary in the 1st two years being guaranteed. Used to be the guaranteed money was mostly signing bonus. The signing bonus gets you the guaranteed money up front while the Reeves deal sends it out as game checks.

barrett
02-20-2009, 05:27 PM
I'm relieved my boy Ricky did the right thing and blew him up on his T-mobile sayin' "yo- from the heart, we're franchizin' you like a Mickey D's!"


Instead of Dunta hearing it from a reporter.

Go Texans.

HJam72
02-20-2009, 05:30 PM
See post above.

Sounds like Dunta was offered 6 years, 23 million quarented.

And said no.

Maybe if it's quarantined he can't get to it. :thinking:

Goatcheese
02-20-2009, 05:34 PM
If the Texans really offered Robinson a similar contract to what Chris Gamble got, and he turned them down... I just don't know what to say. That's atleast 25% higher than I thought the Texans would offer. If he had a brain in his head, then he would have jumped at the offer, and thanked God the Texans were dumb enough to over pay.

Somebody needs to sit D-Rob down and say "Dude, you're not that good. You're an above average cover man, who is solid against the run. That's it. You are not Aso, Deion, or even Gamble. Deflate your ego, and get a grip on reality." A good slap upside the head for good measure wouldn't hurt either.

srsly.

dalemurphy
02-20-2009, 05:41 PM
If the Texans really offered Robinson a similar contract to what Chris Gamble got, and he turned them down... I just don't know what to say. That's atleast 25% higher than I thought the Texans would offer. If he had a brain in his head, then he would have jumped at the offer, and thanked God the Texans were dumb enough to over pay.

Somebody needs to sit D-Rob down and say "Dude, you're not that good. You're an above average cover man, who is solid against the run. That's it. You are not Aso, Deion, or even Gamble. Deflate your ego, and get a grip on reality." A good slap upside the head for good measure wouldn't hurt either.

srsly.

Or, perhaps our defense will actually generate a pass rush, and he'll prove to be one of the best in the NFL. By the way, Kelvin Hayden just got a huge deal ( 5yrs $43 million/ $22.5 mil signing bonus)and he's an average CB that plays almost exclusively cover 2 with Freeney and Mathis rushing from both ends... I think his contract probably blew up the deal that was close to being signed.

Mailman
02-20-2009, 05:56 PM
Or, perhaps our defense will actually generate a pass rush, and he'll prove to be one of the best in the NFL. By the way, Kelvin Hayden just got a huge deal ( 5yrs $43 million/ $22.5 mil signing bonus)and he's an average CB that plays almost exclusively cover 2 with Freeney and Mathis rushing from both ends... I think his contract probably blew up the deal that was close to being signed.

Bingo.

I think we can all figure out what happened here. Dunta's agent got in his ear and filled his head with the numbers from Gamble's contract and compared those to the numbers Hayden and Asomugha got this week.

Dunta: Mr Agent guy, what would I get on the market next week?

Mr. Agent Guy: Well, Dunta, Chris Gamble got 6 years and more than 50 million with 23 mill guaranteed, but that was months ago. You were drafted in the same year and you're just as good, so you should be paid like Gamble. However, the market has changed. If that Hayden dude can get 5 yrs and 43 million with 22 guaranteed, you should get more than what they're offering you. You are better than Kelvin Hayden. Bottom line is 25 mill at least.

Goatcheese
02-20-2009, 06:01 PM
Or, perhaps our defense will actually generate a pass rush, and he'll prove to be one of the best in the NFL. By the way, Kelvin Hayden just got a huge deal ( 5yrs $43 million/ $22.5 mil signing bonus)and he's an average CB that plays almost exclusively cover 2 with Freeney and Mathis rushing from both ends... I think his contract probably blew up the deal that was close to being signed.

Hayden had more tackles, more INTs, and fewer yards per reception in fewer games than D-Rob in 2008. If anything, Hayden's contract should have adjusted Dunta's expectations DOWN.

DiehardChris
02-20-2009, 06:03 PM
I heard McClain also.

I'm flabbergasted. If he turned down Chris Gamble money, he either wants out of Houston, or he's a freaking moron.

I mean, yeah - there could have been parts of the contract that bothered him - but I absolutely LOVE Dunta Robinson - and even I can say he's not as good as Gamble, and doesn't deserve that kind of scratch.

Had he never gotten injured, I'd give him that in a second. But as it is - no.

Sigh. This sucks. I love Dunta.

I wonder how this would have gone down if the Hayden deal hadn't come out.

dalemurphy
02-20-2009, 06:04 PM
Hayden had more tackles, more INTs, and fewer yards per reception in fewer games than D-Rob in 2008. If anything, Hayden's contract should have adjusted Dunta's expectations DOWN.

He played on a much better defense... much, much better/ with a great pass rush and a system that limits the CBs deep responsibilities.

dalemurphy
02-20-2009, 06:07 PM
I heard McClain also.

I'm flabbergasted. If he turned down Chris Gamble money, he either wants out of Houston, or he's a freaking moron.

I mean, yeah - there could have been parts of the contract that bothered him - but I absolutely LOVE Dunta Robinson - and even I can say he's not as good as Gamble, and doesn't deserve that kind of scratch.

Had he never gotten injured, I'd give him that in a second. But as it is - no.

Sigh. This sucks. I love Dunta.

I wonder how this would have gone down if the Hayden deal hadn't come out.

Don't fret. We will probably sign him before the season. As it is, he and his agent will realize that $23million guaranteed is better than $9.75, particularly given all the uncertainty coming into play the next couple of seasons with the end of the collective bargaining agreement.

By the way, if next year is uncapped, we can retain Dunta automatically by giving him a 10% raise on his current salary. So, if he plays great, we can still keep him next year for a reasonable amount of money, even if the season is uncapped.

Goatcheese
02-20-2009, 06:18 PM
He played on a much better defense... much, much better/ with a great pass rush and a system that limits the CBs deep responsibilities.

The Colts had a mind boggeling 5 more sacks than the Texans. Compair that to the Cowboys who had 34 more sacks, more than doubling up on Houston.

The simple fact is, D-Rob hasn't even been playing as our Left Corner, or mirroring the other teams best receiver. Even when healthy he played on the right side, and moved to nickle, covering #3 receivers, in alot of packages. Why should we pay top 5 corner money, for a guy who plays the #2 corner position? :gun:

Kaiser Toro
02-20-2009, 06:27 PM
By the way, if next year is uncapped, we can retain Dunta automatically by giving him a 10% raise on his current salary. So, if he plays great, we can still keep him next year for a reasonable amount of money, even if the season is uncapped.

That is a good point. Unfortunately, one never knows how en ego once scorned will react once the next mental hurdle approaches.

kiwitexansfan
02-20-2009, 07:05 PM
I hated the idea of franchising Dunta because I don't think he's worth it.

If we did it because of his leadership value and his ability to blitz (which I think they will do in the new scheme), I could live with it because Smith knows more than me.

But for us to franchise him and then him winge about it, makes this about the unhappiest I have been as a Texans fan.

DiehardChris
02-20-2009, 07:07 PM
makes this about the unhappiest I have been as a Texans fan.

You must be a new fan, then. 2-14 anyone? :D

TheRealJoker
02-20-2009, 07:09 PM
Hmm. Not for me I think. Team would probably be below us in draft making it a low second round that does not give you a starter. There would be no potential I believe to trade up for Jenkins and no CB late in 2nd gives you a starter.

How do you know a late 2nd rounder doesn't give us a starter? The draft is a crapshoot and if what you're saying is true then David Carr and Ryan Leaf would be MUCH better than Tom Brady and Matt Cassel.

Two 2nds gives us two more chances to grab quality players. Its all about your scouting department, the same scouting department that has done a pretty solid job in the draft WITHOUT a 2nd round pick the past two years.

We just picked up Steve Slaton in the late 3rd round, but he cant start because a late 3rd DOES NOT give you a starter... Forget about pro bowl TE Owen Daniels starting, he's a 4th rounder...

So to end my rant...YES two 2nds give you not one, but TWO starters with proper scouting. Two solid starters > than one iffy starter (solid starter pre injury) with an inflated sense of self worth.

gafftop
02-20-2009, 08:13 PM
Would not bother me to get (2) No. 1's for Dunta. Don't want to risk another injured player with a long term contract. Dunta did not look good last year. I know he was only 80% but that may be all he will ever be again. I would not do any type of long term deal on Dunta. Let him prove himself next year.

gtexan02
02-20-2009, 08:31 PM
I suddenly appreciate Jacques Reeves even more

Blake
02-20-2009, 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by Super Mario http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1122684#post1122684)
Dude, you mean what you can gather from pure speculation. You have no idea what he was offered and with what incentives. And you are speculating again that he wants more than Gamble got.



See post above.

Sounds like Dunta was offered 6 years, 23 million quarented.

And said no.

That still doesn't tell us how the contract was structured and what incentives or clauses were in it. We still don't know why he turned it down. Did he think he was worth more than 23 million or was it because he didnt like how the contract was written? (See Mike Leach contract extention)

All I am saying is that its speculation that he thinks he is worth more than 23 million. And its speculation that he turned it down because of claus or incentive issues.

kiwitexansfan
02-20-2009, 10:34 PM
You must be a new fan, then. 2-14 anyone? :D

New fan, are you kidding??

2-14 I could handle, I come from a tradition of supporting underachieving teams, making stupid decisions about ingrates is something else entirely.

Norg
02-20-2009, 10:41 PM
Well iam pretty sure we were not going to pay dunta anything above 15 million and his agent prob turned down everything so the texans had no choice

Kimmy
02-20-2009, 10:46 PM
That still doesn't tell us how the contract was structured and what incentives or clauses were in it. We still don't know why he turned it down. Did he think he was worth more than 23 million or was it because he didnt like how the contract was written? (See Mike Leach contract extention)

All I am saying is that its speculation that he thinks he is worth more than 23 million. And its speculation that he turned it down because of claus or incentive issues.

I may be WAY off base here - but let me pose this question:
How many teams/fans were talking up Drob like others here have been talking up other free agents?

We have discussed Peppers, Haynesworth, noted Fred Taylor and others through the years.

I have been listening hard to Sirius NFL, Sports 610 and NFL.com, plus poked around at the other teams message boards, and, I have heard barely over a whisper about picking up Drob.

Don't get me wrong, the line starts behind me when it comes to singing his praises.

I just felt a little jilted when I read/heard his comments about being disappointed about the FT.

I'm looking forward to seeing the details of the offer, if any and what went so wrong. I want him to be here and stay and retire here. He's one of the good guys!

So, could it have been that the 'under the radar' talk just wasn't good enough?

Looking forward to your thoughts :)

b0ng
02-20-2009, 10:47 PM
Well iam pretty sure we were not going to pay dunta anything above 15 million and his agent prob turned down everything so the texans had no choice

Your analysis is so spot on I had to make this post.

threetoedpete
02-20-2009, 11:08 PM
Nobody is going to give up a 1st round pick and sign him to a huge deal. There's no chance! He hasn't proven himself post-injury on game tape. His injury is the reason we have locked him up- a team from the outside isn't going to throw guaranteed money that we aren't willing to and also give us quality draft picks.

So are you posting that you believe Robinson is not worth the twenty-eight million guaranteed and forty-three million over all ? Inquiring minds wish to know.

There's always a chance someone will fall in love with the idea.
Go back and look at the Hershell Walker Deal. Or better yet our own deal with
Al Davis for Phillip Buchanan. I agree it's highly unlikly. But it's possible.

Malloy
02-21-2009, 03:50 AM
You must be a new fan, then. 2-14 anyone? :D

That never happened, Im in denial :)

Malloy
02-21-2009, 03:55 AM
I know he was only 80% but that may be all he will ever be again.

When you think about it, he was only 40% then since he only played half a season.

I have a feeling that he won't see the field again with the Texans, they can still trade him, and not neccesarily for two 1st-rounders, thats just the buy-out rule.

I dont want grumpy players on my team, and I dont care who it is. Grumpy can destroy a team SO fast...

Mari-OWNED!
02-21-2009, 04:13 AM
I dont want grumpy players on my team, and I dont care who it is. Grumpy can destroy a team SO fast...

http://grantsrant.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/owens.jpg

Malloy
02-21-2009, 05:19 AM
http://grantsrant.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/owens.jpg

Did'nt wanna mention TO, but he was in my thoughts :)

Texans_Chick
02-21-2009, 09:06 AM
My thoughts on this situation:

A cautionary tale about Dunta Robinson's agent (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/02/a_cautionary_tale_about_dunta.html)

Stuff gets misinterpreted all the time in negotiations. Especially when intermediaries are involved.

beerlover
02-21-2009, 09:27 AM
sounds like offer was on the table & Dunta did the walking he has nobody to blame but himself & his agent. very dissapointing :texflag:

Texans_Chick
02-21-2009, 09:33 AM
sounds like offer was on the table & Dunta did the walking he has nobody to blame but himself & his agent. very dissapointing :texflag:

Eh, no blame. The negotiations aren't public so you can't tell what the key terms are--how backloaded the money was, for instance.

I am guessing they are having a hard time finding value because of that injury history thing.

b0ng
02-21-2009, 09:35 AM
My thoughts on this situation:

A cautionary tale about Dunta Robinson's agent (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/02/a_cautionary_tale_about_dunta.html)

Stuff gets misinterpreted all the time in negotiations. Especially when intermediaries are involved.

Your take on it seems to have the newest information incorporated in it's view. Did you and JLR draw straws to see who was going to be on Robinson's side and who was going to be on Smith's side?

Texans_Chick
02-21-2009, 10:32 AM
Your take on it seems to have the newest information incorporated in it's view. Did you and JLR draw straws to see who was going to be on Robinson's side and who was going to be on Smith's side?

I'm not on anyone's side. I just think it is like playing telephone--negotiations get mixed signals all the time. I've been involved with a zillion negotiations, and especially when intermediaries are involved, miscommunications can happen. I am sure that negotiations are harder when personal performance comes into play.

I don't communicate with JLR on who is going to write what, and actually, I didn't read what he wrote until you mentioned it. I think he is a little off the reservation with his take, but opinions are like noses....everyone has one and some of them smell more than others. I think he just misread Smith's presser.

b0ng
02-21-2009, 10:42 AM
I think I just need to learn how to word my jokes better.

I wonder if "Rick Smith is a liar" will turn into the new "Sage Rosenfels should be starting" which was "Is Mario a bust"?

Texans_Chick
02-21-2009, 10:50 AM
I think I just need to learn how to word my jokes better.

I wonder if "Rick Smith is a liar" will turn into the new "Sage Rosenfels should be starting" which was "Is Mario a bust"?

Haha.

I think maybe we should run around in circles screaming "Rick Smith is a bonehead," demand he apologize and call it a day.

Mailman
02-21-2009, 11:00 AM
Wow, JLR really is off the reservation with that entry. Rick Smith should apologize? For what, not being the NFL's prodigy of stupid? There's no chance in hell that Rick Smith promised Dunta or his agent that the team wouldn't use the franchise tag because that would be surrendering all leverage to Dunta's agent. You don't do that in negotiations. Smith may have expressed to Team Robinson that the franchise tag wasn't the team's goal, either, but that doesn't mean they would not use it under any circumstance. Dunta needs to get a sense of perspective and consider the team's interest, too. He is not that stupid. Once he wises up and gets his agent out of his ear maybe he'll stop being so butthurt about this.

mexican_texan
02-21-2009, 11:14 AM
Does McNair negotiate player contracts?

I thought Smith did?
I don't believe either one of them does.

Blake
02-21-2009, 11:39 AM
I may be WAY off base here - but let me pose this question:
How many teams/fans were talking up Drob like others here have been talking up other free agents?

We have discussed Peppers, Haynesworth, noted Fred Taylor and others through the years.

I have been listening hard to Sirius NFL, Sports 610 and NFL.com, plus poked around at the other teams message boards, and, I have heard barely over a whisper about picking up Drob.

Don't get me wrong, the line starts behind me when it comes to singing his praises.

I just felt a little jilted when I read/heard his comments about being disappointed about the FT.

I'm looking forward to seeing the details of the offer, if any and what went so wrong. I want him to be here and stay and retire here. He's one of the good guys!

So, could it have been that the 'under the radar' talk just wasn't good enough?

Looking forward to your thoughts :)

Besides Nnamdi, Dunta is arguably the best FA CB this year along with Hayden and Nnamdi & Hayden are signed to long term deals. Ive seen alot of other forums and websites that have Dunta high on the list. I really think the money was there but possibly the structure of the contract irks Dunta and his agent. I really dont think Dunta thinks he is worth more than Nnamdi or Gamble.

gtexan02
02-21-2009, 01:24 PM
You guys are ignoring an obvious possibility. Dunta doesn't really want to be in Houston anymore.

He won't come out and say it because thats not the kind of guy he is, but he wants out. I know he wanted out at the end of last season, and unless something has changed, I would assume he still wants to go. He wants to play for a team thats contending right now. He's an incredible competitor.

Unless he was offered some ridiculous contract, I honestly think Dunta has been planning on becoming a UFA for a while. I think he believed he could just turn down contract offers and test the waters of FA.

Maybe something changed after Smith was fired, but from the looks of everything thats happened/happening, I wouldnt think so

ChampionTexan
02-21-2009, 01:32 PM
You guys are ignoring an obvious possibility. Dunta doesn't really want to be in Houston anymore.

He won't come out and say it because thats not the kind of guy he is, but he wants out. I know he wanted out at the end of last season, and unless something has changed, I would assume he still wants to go. He wants to play for a team thats contending right now. He's an incredible competitor.

Unless he was offered some ridiculous contract, I honestly think Dunta has been planning on becoming a UFA for a while. I think he believed he could just turn down contract offers and test the waters of FA.

Maybe something changed after Smith was fired, but from the looks of everything thats happened/happening, I wouldnt think so

Just curious - How do you "know" he wanted out at the end of last year? I realize there was speculation, but was there something that went beyond that?

gtexan02
02-21-2009, 01:44 PM
Just curious - How do you "know" he wanted out at the end of last year? I realize there was speculation, but was there something that went beyond that?

My source was one of Robinsons rehab doctors, who that told me last year that Robinson was done as a Texan and that he wanted to leave at the end of year. He told me Robinson was pretty clear when he talked to him

Like I said, things could have changed since that point in time because of the Smith firing. But I dont know

ChampionTexan
02-21-2009, 02:04 PM
My source was one of Robinsons rehab doctors, who that told me last year that Robinson was done as a Texan and that he wanted to leave at the end of year. He told me Robinson was pretty clear when he talked to him

Like I said, things could have changed since that point in time because of the Smith firing. But I dont know

Well, you kind of cross your fingers and hope that if that was the case, it's changed because of the new DC, or whatever. He wouldn't be the first to do an about face on things - Lance Briggs, and perhaps (since it might be premature to include him) Anquan Boldin are two that come to mind immediately.

b0ng
02-21-2009, 02:10 PM
Well, you kind of cross your fingers and hope that if that was the case, it's changed because of the new DC, or whatever. He wouldn't be the first to do an about face on things - Lance Briggs, and perhaps (since it might be premature to include him) Anquan Boldin are two that come to mind immediately.

To be fair, Dunta might want out of Houston due to being assaulted, robbed, and tied up in a closet during a home invasion.

Mailman
02-21-2009, 02:47 PM
My source was one of Robinsons rehab doctors, who that told me last year that Robinson was done as a Texan and that he wanted to leave at the end of year. He told me Robinson was pretty clear when he talked to him

Like I said, things could have changed since that point in time because of the Smith firing. But I dont know

If this is true and the front office knows that he really just wants to get out of Htown and go play for another team, trade him for draft picks now.

Blake
02-21-2009, 03:00 PM
If this is true and the front office knows that he really just wants to get out of Htown and go play for another team, trade him for draft picks now.

Agreed. If this is the way he feels then the best thing to do is trade him.

ArlingtonTexan
02-21-2009, 03:08 PM
My source was one of Robinsons rehab doctors, who that told me last year that Robinson was done as a Texan and that he wanted to leave at the end of year. He told me Robinson was pretty clear when he talked to him

Like I said, things could have changed since that point in time because of the Smith firing. But I dont know

If this is true, then he nor his representation were bargining in good faith...i.e. that if our demands are matched (or close enough) then there is a deal to be had. That is just as dishonest as what he is accusing Rick Smith of doing.

gtexan02
02-21-2009, 03:13 PM
If this is true, then he nor his representation were bargining in good faith...i.e. that if our demands are matched (or close enough) then there is a deal to be had. That is just as dishonest as what he is accusing Rick Smith of doing.

Thats what Ive sort of felt all along. And why it doesn't surprise me that he rejected the Gamble-esque contract he was apparently offered.

The fact that he was negotiating at all tells me that either
1) His desire to leave can be mitigated with money
or
2) The coaching and personnel changes have convinced him to stick around

I think Dunta wants to win more than anything. Whether he believes that the Texans can be a contender next season is something I don't know at this point. Maybe the Cardinals superbowl run helped change his opinion

TheRealJoker
02-21-2009, 03:24 PM
Another interesting theory is:

Yes, Dunta wants to win.

BUT

He wants to go to a proven winner with a large contract because he knows he's not a good enough player to turn around our current secondary and needs to play with a better back seven to hide the weaknesses that us Texan homers have glossed over in the past.

Texans_Chick
02-23-2009, 09:07 AM
Okay, here's my theory on why different people saw the Smith press conference differently:
Spinning Rick Smith and a Texans-centric look at the draft and free agency (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/02/spinning_rick_smith_and_a_texa.html)

Admittedly, it is a weird blog post. But y'all might be interested in it because it discusses something that we talk about a lot here--how reading a press conference in its entirety can give you a different feeling about a situation then when reading a press account.

I like a blog post where I can discuss quantum physics and Dumb and Dumber at the same time.

The offseason is long.

Polo
02-23-2009, 10:27 AM
Dunta wants his money and if another team is willing to give it to him then I suggest he goes to that team when he is permitted.

disaacks3
02-23-2009, 10:50 AM
If this is true, then he nor his representation were bargining in good faith...i.e. that if our demands are matched (or close enough) then there is a deal to be had. That is just as dishonest as what he is accusing Rick Smith of doing. Unfortunately, that's the "feel" I got from McLame's article in the Chronicle as well. He stated that Dunta "wanted to test FA". That doesn't sound like a guy trying to get a deal done w/ the Texans. I also didn't like Dunta's comment regarding Training Camp.

“I don’t know what I’m going to do,” Robinson said. “If you ask me right now, I wouldn’t be there (training camp).

Mr. Robinson - We fans LOVE what you bring to the game, but let's not get too carried away.

Please don't start acting like a petulant child over words you didn't directly hear yourself.

“I don’t appreciate him (Smith) telling my agent that I wouldn’t get tagged and then doing it, anyway.”

He's coming off a catastrophic injury, didn't ever reach his pre-injury level of play before last season ended, was offered C. Gamble-like $$ and still isn't happy that he got tagged? Welcome to NFL reality.

Texan JBZ
02-25-2009, 06:51 PM
Hey guys, did anyone notice that Brandon Jacobs signed a 4 year deal today after getting the franchise tag slapped on him? Hope Dunta payed attention to how Jacobs handled his situation instead of the way he decided to handle his.

barrett
02-25-2009, 08:34 PM
I don't see Dunta as a villain in all of this. He has always been outspoken.

imatexan
02-25-2009, 08:52 PM
Your still the man Dunta, now please sign a affordable long contract:whip:

steelbtexan
02-25-2009, 08:56 PM
You can call him outspoken if you want

I would choose to call him something else.

Mailman
02-25-2009, 09:23 PM
I don't see Dunta as a villain in all of this. He has always been outspoken.

I wouldn't call him a villain, but I do think he's handled it poorly. He's getting bad advice from his agent IMO.

4Texans
02-27-2009, 07:24 AM
I'm not sure what numbers D Rob and the Texans are haggling over right now, but I have a funny feeling D Rob is going to be playing 2009 under the Franchise Tag contract. The market for CB contracts aren't getting any cheaper with the likes of Oakland and Washington shelling out big bucks. I can't see the Texans agreeing on anything with him, especially if DR's agent is thinking about raising the numbers as CB's sign contracts.....

What do you think right now????????

dalemurphy
02-27-2009, 07:38 AM
I'm not sure what numbers D Rob and the Texans are haggling over right now, but I have a funny feeling D Rob is going to be playing 2009 under the Franchise Tag contract. The market for CB contracts aren't getting any cheaper with the likes of Oakland and Washington shelling out big bucks. I can't see the Texans agreeing on anything with him, especially if DR's agent is thinking about raising the numbers as CB's sign contracts.....

What do you think right now????????

Well, when he uses Deangelo Hall's contract as an example, it's pretty hard to argue that Dunta isn't clearly the better player- and Hall just got over $25 million in guarantees... Man, I'm thankful for Washington for getting Haynesworth out of Tennessee, but they're really driving up the price of some of the market!

It looks more likely that we may eventually trade Dunta or have to franchise him again next season for $12 million

Specnatz
02-27-2009, 08:26 AM
Well, when he uses Deangelo Hall's contract as an example, it's pretty hard to argue that Dunta isn't clearly the better player- and Hall just got over $25 million in guarantees... Man, I'm thankful for Washington for getting Haynesworth out of Tennessee, but they're really driving up the price of some of the market!

It looks more likely that we may eventually trade Dunta or have to franchise him again next season for $12 million

That is if he does not put in a stipulation that he can not be franchised again next season.

barrett
03-05-2009, 09:06 PM
I was just reading this interesting analysis over at the examiner:


Nnamdi Asomugha Raiders 3 years, $45-$50 million. First two years ($28.5 million) guaranteed


Chris Gamble Panthers 6 years, $53 million, $23 million guaranteed


DeAngelo Hall Redskins 6 years, $54 million, $22.5 million guaranteed
2/09

Kelvin Hayden Cots 5 years, $43 million, $22.5 million guaranteed
3/07

Nate Clements 49ers 8 years, $80 million, $22 million guaranteed
3/08

Marcus Trufant Seahawks 6 years, $50.2 million, $20 million guaranteed
12/08

Corey Webster Giants 5 years, $43 million, $20 million guaranteed
3/08

Asante Samuel Eagles 6 years, $57 million, $20 million guaranteed
2/09

Domonique Foxworth Ravens 4 years, $27.2 million, $16.5 million guaranteed
3/09

Ron Bartell

Rams

4 years, $28 million, $13.6 million guaranteed
3/09

Jabari Greer

Saints

4 years, $23 million, $10 million guaranteed
3/08

Jacques Reeves

Texans

5 years, $20 million, $8 million guaranteed
3/09

Philip Buchanon

Lions

2 years, $8.5 million
3/09

Drayton Florence

Bills

2 years, $6.6 - $7.3 million




I have to tell you after looking at that I"m actually a bit suprised that Robinson didn't take the cash. Now, there's no official word on what the offer was but I find this very interesting. It would appear that they were trying to pay him in the "2nd best corner in football" range, which I would argue he isn't. I think he's terrific mind you. And he's worth more to us than any other franchise hands down.

check out the article:

http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m3d5-Its-time-for-the-Texans-and-Robinson-to-kiss-and-make-up

It's interesting.

I'm curious, those of you who may know more about this than me, where would you rank those top 3 or 4 DB's are they ranked as they are paid?

TexansFanatic
03-05-2009, 09:57 PM
I have to tell you after looking at that I"m actually a bit suprised that Robinson didn't take the cash.

I believe it is reasonable to assume Dunta has an overrated perception of himself.

DiehardChris
03-05-2009, 10:08 PM
I don't know why time has made you change your mind. If Dunta turned down 23 million guaranteed, then yeah - he just thinks he's better than he actually is.

As far as those top contracts - DeAngelo Hall is nowhere near a top 5 CB. I mean, if talent was everything, then sure... but we all know it's not. Hayden also can't sniff the top 5.

DiehardChris
03-05-2009, 10:12 PM
Also - I don't know if the Ravens were desperate or what - but that contract for D. Foxworth is a joke. How he got 16.5 million guaranteed and Jabari Greer got 10, I'll never know.

Ole Miss Texan
03-05-2009, 10:38 PM
The problem is we don't know the details of Robinson's deal.

It could have been 4 years 30 million with 23.5 million guaranteed...
or it could have been 5 years 50 million with 23.5 guaranteed...
or it could have been 3 years 180 Billion (by meeting crazy incentives) with 23.5 guaranteed.

Kind of hard to make any definitive statements when we don't know the half of it.

DiehardChris
03-05-2009, 11:11 PM
The problem is we don't know the details of Robinson's deal.

It could have been 4 years 30 million with 23.5 million guaranteed...
or it could have been 5 years 50 million with 23.5 guaranteed...
or it could have been 3 years 180 Billion (by meeting crazy incentives) with 23.5 guaranteed.

Kind of hard to make any definitive statements when we don't know the half of it.

Yeah. Absolutely true.

76Texan
03-06-2009, 12:53 AM
Guy can say whatever he wants, just as I can tell him to simply shut up and play.

Outspoken is well taken.
Comes a point called performance!

Dunta actually got a little break last year, so it works both ways.
I believe I've been a loyal fan to all the players, but it's a two-way street.
Your choice, Dunta!
Dunno what's best for ya', all I can say is the worst can come in a hurry.

barrett
03-06-2009, 02:30 AM
Thanks for your input, but what I'm really asking is; what are the top tier CB's and what are they worth. If Dunta is a top 10 or even 15, but he's #1 to us, then I 'm curious where his "value" lies.

is Jabaree Greer or Samuel or Gamble getting paid what they are worth in the market?

I'm sure Dunta AND the Texans have an inflated view of his worth as compared to the rest of the NFL, but where do these other guys lie? are they similar in that they are worth more to their teams than they are to the competitive market? If so then it would seem that (assuming Dunta was offered what has been reported to be offered) that he was worth the top 5 pay scale and if he turned that down then he's dilusional; if it was less then that then I say he wasn't being offered his market value. (in that he is worth more to the Texans than anyone else).

Goatcheese
03-06-2009, 03:45 AM
Thanks for your input, but what I'm really asking is; what are the top tier CB's and what are they worth. If Dunta is a top 10 or even 15, but he's #1 to us, then I 'm curious where his "value" lies.

is Jabaree Greer or Samuel or Gamble getting paid what they are worth in the market?

I'm sure Dunta AND the Texans have an inflated view of his worth as compared to the rest of the NFL, but where do these other guys lie? are they similar in that they are worth more to their teams than they are to the competitive market? If so then it would seem that (assuming Dunta was offered what has been reported to be offered) that he was worth the top 5 pay scale and if he turned that down then he's dilusional; if it was less then that then I say he wasn't being offered his market value. (in that he is worth more to the Texans than anyone else).

Asomugha is in a league of his own, and the Raiders had to pay extra to keep him from bolting.
I thought Greer would get more.
Asante is getting about what he should.
Gamble is probably getting around what he's worth. He can be a shut down corner, and a playmaker.
Trufant is up and down. He's worth that much when he's playing up to his potential.
Hall got overpaid by a massive amount. Dude got cut from the Raiders, and was the 3rd corner for the Skins.
The Clements deal never made sense to me, but most of it is money he will never see anyways.
Foxworth is a big potential guy who has played well in stretches.

TimeKiller
03-06-2009, 12:13 PM
The more I think about this the more I end up with "Dunta just wants out" because it sounds like he got a pretty fair deal. I doubt Smith blew his socks off but who has he done that too? Nobody. Hopefully this year of kicking ass and taking names leaves Dunta a list of teams who are worse than the mighty, mighty Texans.

threetoedpete
03-06-2009, 02:13 PM
I believe as big a knuckle dragger as I am....I could make 6.5 million after taxes work for me. Talk about being set up...Stocks are down. Real estate is down.... banks are going under....all you need to dance is cash. I believe he was thinking why take 10 when everyone else is getting fourteen per year guaranteed ? But as I posted...ten is good. No income Taxes in Texas. He should count his blessing and invest. No matter what happpens next year...he does a good job he should be set for life.

threetoedpete
03-06-2009, 02:19 PM
Also - I don't know if the Ravens were desperate or what - but that contract for D. Foxworth is a joke. How he got 16.5 million guaranteed and Jabari Greer got 10, I'll never know.

the maket is set....Starting top ten Cb is worth fourteen milion per year the first two years. Now Rb on the other hand is 6.6 mill. The best DT...100 million....go figure.

disaacks3
03-06-2009, 02:26 PM
From what I heard, Dunta was offered a package that was almost identical in scope to what C. Gamble got and turned it down because HE wanted to test FA (his own words, per McLame). After hearing that, any claims that the Texans were being unfair and not operating in "good faith" went out the window for me, as it appears NEITHER side was interested in full disclosure of their motives.

Maddict5
03-06-2009, 04:16 PM
dunta is apparently still working out at the complex according to todays interview with molden on ht.com? that seems strange no?

thunderkyss
03-06-2009, 04:58 PM
what were the terms of Dunta's rookie contract?

ArlingtonTexan
03-06-2009, 05:05 PM
dunta is apparently still working out at the complex according to todays interview with molden on ht.com? that seems strange no?

Dunta is going to play for the Texans in 2009, so there is not reason for them to deny him access to the training facilities and staff unless there is a liability issue I am not aware exists. By not signing the tag, Robinson is not required to attend of the off-season stuff, but has no real reason not to use what he can to stay in shape for when chooses to sign and participate.

Maddict5
03-07-2009, 09:07 AM
Dunta is going to play for the Texans in 2009, so there is not reason for them to deny him access to the training facilities and staff unless there is a liability issue I am not aware exists. By not signing the tag, Robinson is not required to attend of the off-season stuff, but has no real reason not to use what he can to stay in shape for when chooses to sign and participate.


yeah but he was saying he mightnt attend OTA's etc so it seems like he changed his mind pretty quickly by heading in this early

TexanAddict
04-01-2009, 12:21 AM
Just an update on where this stands:

While the Texans offseason conditioning program begins Monday, the team may not see Robinson until training camp.

"Right now I haven't signed the franchise tag (contract), so I won't be there," Robinson said. "Still have some things that we gotta go through as far as football goes. I'm looking forward to getting on the field as quickly as I can. There are just some things we have to work out through management."

When asked if he would take part in the Texans mandatory mini-camp in May Robinson said, "Not sure yet. Like I said I will sit down and discuss that with my team (agents) and whatever happens, happens.

"Right now my focus is just staying in shape and whenever those things do get corrected I am going to make sure I am out on the football field."

Robinson acknowledges it will be hard for him to not be with his teammates beginning next week.

"Definitly it will be hard," Robinson said. "This is the business side of it. Just like they run a business at Reliant Stadium, I have to treat myself in the same fashion. There are no hard feelings.

"It's just all business. I think we will come to some kind of conclusion and things will get worked out."

Robinson does not believe missing offseason workouts will hinder his development as a football player.

"I'm going into my sixth season." Robinson said. "I've seen it all. Would I like to be out on the football field, definitely because this is what I love to do. This is the part of football that everybody hates and it's the business side of things. We just have to get some things situated."

Robinson has already told the Texans he will not be involved in their offseason program until his contract situation is resolved.

"Dunta told me the same thing a few weeks ago," said Gary Kubiak, Texans head coach. "Obviously our offseason programs are voluntary. We would love to have him around here, but we will work through it.

"We are counting on him big-time and he told me that I can count on him and so can his teammates and that's what's important."

Link (http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/090331_robinson_miss_offseason_program)

hot pickle
04-01-2009, 01:40 AM
hope everything works out... i think the draft will have a big deal in whats going on... jenkins anyone?