PDA

View Full Version : A Cautionary Tale for overrating Combine Performances


nunusguy
02-18-2009, 07:23 AM
Since the 1995 NFL Scouting Combine, when Mike Mamula turned heads with his spectacular workouts but upset stomachs with his eventual pro career, the Boston College defensive end/linebacker has served as the primary, cautionary combine tale. The lesson stressed was for teams to be leery of falling in love with collegiate players in shorts who fanatically prep for and then shine in Indianapolis.
**
NY Jets linebacker Vernon Gholston does not seek to replace Mamula as that guy, that example, the freshest reminder. But based on his riveting 2008 combine and his undistinguished rookie season that followed, in some circles, Gholston already has.

"Safe to say," one long-time NFL personnel executive said last week, requesting anonymity, "that Vernon Gholston is the bust of the 2008 draft."
http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id=09000d5d80ec673c&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Mari-OWNED!
02-18-2009, 08:11 AM
How can a writer call someone a bust after one season? It just doesn't make any sense.

4Texans
02-18-2009, 08:11 AM
Ouch!!!!

rarazz00
02-18-2009, 08:36 AM
So judging a player after one season would have made Mario a bust. I guess these sports writers need fodder for their journalistic fire...:bat:

nunusguy
02-18-2009, 09:13 AM
How can a writer call someone a bust after one season? It just doesn't make any sense.

To answer your questions, its my understanding that the Jets LB made it on the field almost exclusively as a STs player. In other words this guy, who was the 6th overall pick in last years Draft and the Jets have already paid millions of dollars of guaranteed money to, rarely played in 1st or second or third down situations and never became a starter all year long.
I dunno, does that help ?

Ole Miss Texan
02-18-2009, 10:07 AM
This is my least favorite part of the offseason. I get all excited about the combine, draft, etc. and forget that we're about to get bombarded with "the combine is useless" kind of comments all across the boards and internet. Well I'm going to make a vow as to not comment at all about it:)

"Safe to say," one long-time NFL personnel executive said last week, requesting anonymity, "that Vernon Gholston is the bust of the 2008 draft."

That sounds like Charley Casserly to me.

Specnatz
02-18-2009, 12:40 PM
This is my least favorite part of the offseason. I get all excited about the combine, draft, etc. and forget that we're about to get bombarded with "the combine is useless" kind of comments all across the boards and internet. Well I'm going to make a vow as to not comment at all about it:)


That sounds like Charley Casserly to me.

Matt Millen?

Mari-OWNED!
02-18-2009, 03:46 PM
To answer your questions, its my understanding that the Jets LB made it on the field almost exclusively as a STs player. In other words this guy, who was the 6th overall pick in last years Draft and the Jets have already paid millions of dollars of guaranteed money to, rarely played in 1st or second or third down situations and never became a starter all year long.
I dunno, does that help ?

No it doesn't. Lots of players have bad rookie years, some have gone on to having Hall Of Fame careers. I understand your where you're coming from, but at least give the guy 3 years in the NFL before calling him a bust.

Polo
02-18-2009, 03:55 PM
To answer your questions, its my understanding that the Jets LB made it on the field almost exclusively as a STs player. In other words this guy, who was the 6th overall pick in last years Draft and the Jets have already paid millions of dollars of guaranteed money to, rarely played in 1st or second or third down situations and never became a starter all year long.
I dunno, does that help ?


The Jets may not have put him in the best possible position to succeed...AKA they may not have coached/utilized him correctly his rookie year.

Polo
02-18-2009, 03:58 PM
That sounds like Charley Casserly to me.

Don't be adsurd...

Casserly wouldn't know a bust if a Woman had her 44 DDD's in his face...Or if David Carr was a top prospect...

Of course it was the Jets GM...Trying to motivate his guy....

Blake
02-18-2009, 04:56 PM
This just in. The combine isn't everything you need to know about a player.

Wolf6151
02-18-2009, 06:53 PM
I think that the combine is a useful tool for measuring players against each other at the same positions but I also think that some teams overrate the combine. Kubiak said last year that the combine was overrated for evaluating players and that he preferred game film for evaluating players in game situations. As for a player being a bust 1 yr. isn't enough time to judge if a player is a bust, I think it should be 3 yrs.. Also a player being a bust is the fault of both sides, the player and his attitude and committment, and the team that he goes to and the coaching provided to him. Some teams expect a rookie player to be self motivated and know everything when he makes it to the NFL. To me an NFL rookie knows just enough to make it to the NFL it's then up to the team to take that piece of clay and mold it into a beautiful vase.

The 40 yd. dash at the combine should be run in full uniform, pads, and helmet since that's the way your going to play the game.

b0ng
02-18-2009, 07:07 PM
"Safe to say," one long-time NFL personnel executive said last week, requesting anonymity, "that Vernon Gholston is the bust of the 2008 draft."
http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id=09000d5d80ec673c&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

That writer is a dipshit and I hope Gholston breaks out. I wish that these writers could be burned at the stake for saying players are "busts" after their rookie seasons.

Lucky
02-18-2009, 09:15 PM
A workout warrior is a player who tests at a higher level than his college production would suggest. Mike Mamula fits that description. Vernon Gholston, who had a terrific career at Ohio State, does not.

Gholston's biggest problems were that he was playing in a sophisticated hybrid defense, and played behind a couple of good OLB/DEs in Bryan Thomas and Calvin Pace.

threetoedpete
02-19-2009, 12:08 AM
There certainly will be a Mike Mamula or a Tony Mandrich in this class. I'm sure Micheal Johnson's numbers will jump off the charts.....thats why you always go back to the tape. Projecting where players will be two years from now is an art not a science. You tell me a lineman can't make twenty five reps on the bench press....that's a problem. Tell me an o-lineman can't get close to 5.4 on his forty time....that's a problem. Tell me a LB can't flip his hips and turn and run....that's a problem. The combine is simply one piece of the puzzle.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id=09000d5d80ecd9a3&template=without-video-with-
comments&confirm=true

Bare minimum Wonderlick Scores by position:

Offensive Tackles: 26
Center :25
QBs: 24
Guards: 23
Safety & Linebackers: 19
Tight Ends : 22
Corner Back: 18
Wide Receiver: 17
Full back : 17
Halfback : 16

Mr teX
02-19-2009, 02:48 PM
i didn't like him coming out of college & if there was 1 player that i thought would flop, it was him. He didn't look as fast on tape as his 40 time in the combine suggested. He also didn't look like he had much technique, it was just line up & get there & you're not going to get away with that in the NFL.

The1ApplePie
02-19-2009, 11:00 PM
This topic should be title:

Michael Johnson: A Look into the Future

mexican_texan
02-20-2009, 12:44 AM
That writer is a dipshit and I hope Gholston breaks out. I wish that these writers could be burned at the stake for saying players are "busts" after their rookie seasons.
Brodrick Bunkley was called a bust after his rookie year too.

nunusguy
02-20-2009, 09:57 AM
I didn't say Gholston was a bust, the guy in the article did. But I'll tell you this, he's well on his way to being a bust even though I would would say it's premature to write him off entirely this early.
We are talking about nothing less than the 6th overall pick in the Draft and basically all he's done is play in ST situations. For comparison, everyone of our first round picks has started much if not most of the games in their rookie season, even though some might say that decision was ill advised in some situations.
Obviously the most comparable situation for us was Jason Babin, who was transitioning from being a college 4-3 DE to a OLB in the 3-4, same as apparently Gholston is. While Babin certainly wasn't a big success in his rookie year (or later for that matter), on the other hand he wasn't an abject
failure either. He started, he played, and made some plays and contributed and we are talking about the 27th pick in the Draft, not a top 6 selection. Big difference.

Spled
02-21-2009, 03:32 AM
I think Mamula and Mandrich were both roid creation/workout beasts. At least Mamula had 31 and a half career sacks, Gholston has a way to go before he catches up.

b0ng
02-21-2009, 10:52 AM
I didn't say Gholston was a bust, the guy in the article did. But I'll tell you this, he's well on his way to being a bust even though I would would say it's premature to write him off entirely this early.
We are talking about nothing less than the 6th overall pick in the Draft and basically all he's done is play in ST situations. For comparison, everyone of our first round picks has started much if not most of the games in their rookie season, even though some might say that decision was ill advised in some situations.
Obviously the most comparable situation for us was Jason Babin, who was transitioning from being a college 4-3 DE to a OLB in the 3-4, same as apparently Gholston is. While Babin certainly wasn't a big success in his rookie year (or later for that matter), on the other hand he wasn't an abject
failure either. He started, he played, and made some plays and contributed and we are talking about the 27th pick in the Draft, not a top 6 selection. Big difference.

You're correct in your assertion that he is on his way to being called a bust, however:

That writer is a dipshit. His whole article smacks of "I was the first to proclaim him a bust".

gtexan02
02-21-2009, 12:18 PM
Lets not underestimate the importance of the combine workouts either though.

I remember a whole crowd of people dismissing VYs underwhelming wonderlic performance and saying "It doesn't matter. We've seen what he can do on the field."

Oops