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beerlover
02-15-2009, 07:37 PM
1) Detroit 0-16 .Andre Smith LG 6-4 340 Alabama
Proto-typical NFL size, strength & athletic ability to lock down inside protection for QB & run lanes for balanced attack. they also need to address RG but will do so later on 2nd day. entire new direction for organization w/new GM Mayhew & James Harris player director of personel from Jacksonville along with Lenehan former Rams HC all know the value of franshicse type OL.

2) St. Louis 2-14 Jason Smith, OT Baylor 6-5 300

Struggled more with this pick even though I know they take a LT, the question is by draft day which OT grades out #1? Smith just seems like the ascending talent in this draft for LT position. He is not a drop anchor type but more athletic gifted package of pass blocking & run blocking. Since this is pre-combine Mock I think he will distinguish himself with better speed & conditiong while improving his strength.

3) Kansas City 2-14 Eugene Monroe, OT Virginia 6-5 315

This reunites former Virginia Cavaliers offensive line mates & opens several options. I feel before addressing their QB position this line needs to solidify & invest the appropriate talent neccesary to once again be a dominant force.

4) Seattle Seahawks 4-12 Michael Oher, OT Mississippi 6-5 320

Hopefully Walter Jones can respond to surgery & is not done so he can mentor young, talented but raw Michael Oher. I think this is a perfect fit but I was tempted with Crabtree as well, still Hassleback must have protection & time to hit his WR's so this need has to be addressed first depsite the first four picks all being OL.

5) Cleveland 4-12 Michael Crabtree, WR Texas Tech 6-3 214

Crabtree could go higher, no doubt about that but Edwards has been such a huge dissapointment that covering bases & taking bpa at this point makes the most sense.

6) Cincinnati 4-11-1 Aaron Curry, OLB Wake Forrest 6-2 246

First defensive player off the board. playmaker with ideal size & should also be the most productive rookie in his first season with the helpless Bengals.

7) Oakland 5-11 Michael Johnson, DE Georgia Tech 6-7 258

With run on OT early the Raiders next biggest need is pass rushing specialist but someone big enough to hold up in run support. He is the only DE who has top 10 measureables & this is something Al Davis follows & sign off on.

8) Jacksonville 5-11 B.J. Raji, DT Boston College 6-1 325

Also wanting OL help but with top prospects, Smtih/Smtih, Monore & Oher off the board they try & replace Stroud to help Henderson regain that physical insdie domininace it once enjoyed.

9) Green Bay 6-10 Brian Orakpo, DE Texas 6-4 260

Fits need would have liked Raji if still available. Brian will have excellent workouts & shine @ the Combine, close between him & Everette but thats my call as of now.

10) San Francisco 7-9 .Malcolm Jenkins, CB Ohio State 6-0 200

Singletary sticks with what he knows, defense & the 49ers are lucky Malcolm is still on the board. complete skill set, excellent size the only elite cb talent in this class.

11) Buffalo 7-9 Evertte Brown, DE Florida State 6-4 252

Defensive line coach Bob Sanders, meanwhile, takes over for Bill Kollar. He was Green Bay's defensive coordinator the past three seasons. He's been hired to help Buffalo's pass rush and Buffalo will be paying close attention to DE prospects like Texas' Brian Orakpo, Florida State's Everette Brown, so it boils down between those two whoever is available.

12) Denver 8-8 Peria Jerry, DT Mississippi 6-3 300

After BJ Raji, Jerry is the next best DL prospect of the draft. Brings high energy to mile high city were he'll need that extra lung capacity. disruptive & penetrating unknown as of yet if they plan to switch over & play in a 3-4 if this were the case Denver may try to trade up to draft Raji who is more of a NT.

13) Washington 8-8 Rey Maualuga, USC MLB 6-2 260

London Fletcher is 105 this season (jk) Redskins need to address defense early & often. Rey is a leader with ready to start mesaureables/intincts & would be an excellent fit looking real comfortable as MLB for the Washington Redskins.

14) New Orleans 8-8 Vontae Davis, CB Illinois 6-0 204

most consider Vontae as the next best cb in this draft after Malcolm Jenkins & this has to be the Saints primary need.

15) Chicago Bears (via Houston Texans) 9-7 Matthew Stafford, QB Georgia 6-3 236

Chicago is too tempted & afraid to wait until they select to risk losing the #1 rated QB @ their #1 position of need. It makes too much sense both for Chicago (Jets hanging out @ #17) & Texans.

16) San Diego 8-8 Moreno Knowshon, RB Georgia 5-11 208

They must realize their mistake by now letting Michael Tuner walk still I don't see them paying Sproles either? they are a traditional two back system & this would be ideal for Moreno to learn from one of the best all-time.

17 New York Jets 9-7 Mark Sanchez, QB USC 6-3 225

Bears leapfrog Jets for Matthews leaving Sanchez on the board. very accurate arm, played @ high level in Pro-style program, lots of upside with good line in place & balanced running attack.

18) Houston (via Chicago) 8-8 Brian Cushing, OLB USC 6-3 243

Texans address OLB with versatile inside/out defensive playmaker who fits alongside DeMeco & over the top of Mario. Very difficult decision but as you see it opens up options, adds value plus extra pick (3rd. rd.).

19) Tampa Bay 9-7 Jeremy Maclin, WR Missouri 6-1 200

Could also go Percy Harvin but Maclin seems to be the higher rated speed slot wr they need in Tampa. Galloway had two broken bones in his foot and missed half the season. It's uncertain whether he will return for a fifth season with the Bucs. Michael Clayton is a free agent. Bryant could be franchised. seems like really good value here.

20 Detroit (from Dallas) 9-7 Aaron Maybin, DE/OLB 6-3 245

Need defensive playmakers with range & youth movement starts with Maybin could be dynamic & get tested early with plenty of space to grown.

21 Philadelphia 9-6-1 Brandon Pettigrew, TE Oklahoma State 6-6 260

McNabb would be extremely lucky to add Pettigrew to his protection & his arsenal if he slips to Philly I can't see them not taking the best TE in years.

22 Minnesota 10-6 D.J. Moore, CB Vanderbilt 5-10 184

Vikings should not reach for a QB here (weak class after Stafford/Sanchez) CB however is a need you almost have to draft early & D.J. is the highest rated left on the board.& pure cover corner who can isolate on that proverbial island.

23 New England 11-5 Larry English, OLB Northern Illinois 6-2 254

Dynamic, ascending pass rushing 3-4 OLB who teamed with Mayo solidifies that aging Patriot defense. lots of tempting players here just have to find the best fit for their system @ a position of need.

24 Atlanta 11-5 Clint Sintim, OLB Virginia 6-3 249

This is a smart organization still they need help defensively with several would be free agents to resign, by draft time this will be deceided for now my guess is they will need to get younger here & fill a void left by Boley and Brooking.

25 Miami 11-5 Max Unger Center 6-5 300

Parcells loves these big, ugly nasty tempered offensive lineman who have ability to play mutliple positions, nice addition to last years #1 Jake Long.

26 Baltimore 11-5 Percy Harvin, WR Florida 5-11 195

Flacco needs somebody to throw the deep ball to & Percy has the ability none of his WR have currently on that roster the abiltiy to get behind coverage, teams will have to respect the deep ball just a little more from the 2nd year QB with the big arm to launch the rock.

27 Indianapolis 12-4 Hakeem Nicks WR North Carolina 6-1 210

Hakeem is the next generation Marvin Harrison & lock to become another great NFL WR w/Payton. would consider inside DT help but with Harrison in fact owed some 13.4 million & lesser talent @ that position available here they may try & rework that contract or flat out release/trade.

28) Philadelphia (from Carolina) 12-4 Chris Wells, RB Ohio State 6-1 237

hey at least I still have him going in the first round. would be better compliment to Westbrook, providing some inside running power/size, while Correll Buckhalter is a FA.

29) New York Giants 12-4 Kenny Britt, WR Rutgers 6-4 215

Plaxico Burress replacement. should turn some heads @ the combine with his quickness/height combination best in class, I just can't see Coughlin not taking a hard line with Plax, otherwise seek some help on defensive side.

30) Tennessee 13-3 Ron Brace, DT Boston College 6-3 329

This is on the assumption of course Haynesworth leaves via free agency because Bud Adams is a tight wad & also cannot afford to re-sign what Kerry Collins can make in free agency with so many teams needing QB help (Carolina, Detroit, Tampa, Miami etc. etc, etc,) anyway I realize this is a little bit high for Ron but he does have a solid 2nd rd grade & clearly the big body to fill such a big hole in the Titans interior DL.

31) Arizona 9-7 Eben Britton OT Arizona 6-6 310

Gandy struggled in the Superbowl & Wanrer loves to throw a disproportional amount of time so he needs better protection, this also gives them flexabilty to move Levi to the left side. I was thinking about taking a RB here like Shonn Greene but Grimm the OL coach feel athletic upgrade is needed sooner than later & know all about the local wildcat product.

32) Pittsburgh 12-4 Alphonso Smith, CB Wake Forrest 5-9 193

Tough,competitive instinctive seems to fil the Steeler mold & the last of the real good quality CB's in this draft. Better prospect value than linemen still on board who the Steelers will address in upcoming rounds/FA signings/re-signings.

Still working on Texans picks. in case anyone wondered, Texans aquire Chicago 3rd. pick by trading down three spots. go ahead & rip away :thinking:

awtysst
02-15-2009, 08:07 PM
Beerlover,
As always I think you put together a very solid and smart draft. You have teams taking what they oughta take and not necessarily what they will. I am a big proponent of the Lions taking LT over a QB. I love the NO pick: Davis is a brilliant pick based on your draft.
I think you did a great job overall.

But, you are a lot like me. And you don't want to read people agreeing with you, you want to hear disagreement that fosters discussion.


I see Unger as the #2 Center on the board. I really like Mack(as I am sure you know) and think he is the best Center to come out in a while. Mack was able to contain Raji (best DT prospect this year) whereas Unger struggled against him.

While I get why you have MJ going to Oakland, I think he will need to have an AWESOME combine to do it. I currently have Orakpo slotted there.

I am not sure Jerry is right for Denver. While they need just about anything on D what they really need is a stud MLB like Al Wilson. Wilson shore up the middle and made sure handed tackles. I think if the draft played out this way Denver takes Maualuga and shores up their Mike for the next 10 years. They can always grab Brace in the second.

I also don't like the Colts taking a WR here. You might be right and they might do it, but I think they should take Alphonso Smith. They have Wayne, Clark, Gonzalez, and Addai as passing targets but have more of a pressing need in the DBs. If they really wanted a WR they could grab one in the 2nd or third. While Nicks is good, I think they would prefer to give Peyton some help on D so he doesnt have to score 35 each week.

I like your idea for a trade, but I think we could get a fair amount more than just a 3rd to move down. With Minne, Detroit, and the Jets looking for a first round QB, I could see someone giving up a 2nd for the right to choose between Stafford and Sanchez. If that was the case we would pick 17, 18, 20 or 22. I would entertain the idea of doing a second trade and try to sell the teams with a WR need to jump back up and grab Harvin or a Nicks. I would even consider trading out of the first completely and picking up a first next year as well as an additional 2nd and 3rd + this year.

So, thats it. As I said, overall pretty good!
Hope this fosters some good Draft talk!

BSofA04
02-15-2009, 08:24 PM
Would be surprising to see the first four picks all OT's. It's also intresting to see a "Brady Quinn" effect on Matthew Stafford if he's not chosen in the first 5 selections. I like the trade down and the Cushing selection but would also consider Sintim. Thanks for the mock!

beerlover
02-15-2009, 09:50 PM
awtysst- thanks for the words, as always appreciated!

I choose Unger over Mack because he plays mutlitple positions well & that is something Parcells covets. I also see Mack as a pure ZBS Center one who fits perfectly here in Houston with Kubiak I just can't project him going #15 or lasting until picking again in 2nd.

Results will follow shortly Michael Johnson combine will open some eyes, maybe not Mario Williams like numbers but above the field kind of numbers.

Jerry is the 2nd best DT in this draft, they tend to go a little higher than they should to teams like Denver who need to address weak interior DL production. If his high motor can sustain itself even @ altitude, very quick & agile on his feet, would make a great fit in the mile high city new defensive scheme.

I hope the Colts don't take Nicks, seriously he is better than you can possibly imagine (would love Texans to take him in the 2nd). At some point the Colts must re-tool with Dungy leaving this may be the time to restructure their salary cap while still in a position of strength (Marvin Harrisons cap hit is huge). One thing for sure is you must ensure a QB like Manning the tools to move the chains & score more points, Nicks would do this I have no doubt.

Used the Draft Pick Value Chart 15th pick = 1050 points the 18th pick = 900. The Bears 3rd #85 worth 165 points, you do the math.

:texflag:

beerlover
02-15-2009, 09:58 PM
Would be surprising to see the first four picks all OT's. It's also intresting to see a "Brady Quinn" effect on Matthew Stafford if he's not chosen in the first 5 selections. I like the trade down and the Cushing selection but would also consider Sintim. Thanks for the mock!

I was thinking the same thing. Then I looked back to last years draft when 7 went in the 1st rd. This years draft OL prospects are more tightly bunched, very concentrated @ the top. all these losing franchises need one & can't afford to wait around to develop one. they also can't afford to miss & take a chance on a boom or bust QB/WR. its a safe route I know but after this year the run on tackles thins out so get em while you can.

JCTexan
02-15-2009, 10:05 PM
Jerry is the 2nd best DT in this draft, they tend to go a little higher than they should to teams like Denver who need to address weak interior DL production. If his high motor can sustain itself even @ altitude, very quick & agile on his feet, would make a great fit in the mile high city new defensive scheme.


I don't know if Jerry is big enough to play NT in the 3-4 defense, but I've noticed the Chargers seem to always draft DT's that weigh between 290 to 300 to play DE in their 3-4. Do you think Jerry will play DE in the 3-4 or DT if drafted by one of those teams?

beerlover
02-15-2009, 10:17 PM
I don't know if Jerry is big enough to play NT in the 3-4 defense, but I've noticed the Chargers seem to always draft DT's that weigh between 290 to 300 to play DE in their 3-4. Do you think Jerry will play DE in the 3-4 or DT if drafted by one of those teams?

I don't think his strength or size hold up as a NT. He would be good as a 3-4 DE or 4-3 one gap DT. similar player to Amobi Okoye.

jgl35
02-15-2009, 11:49 PM
There are two sides up here on the Eagles picking Wells. What the Eagles are doing if they take a back high is finding Westbrook's replacement.
Wells only had 15 catches during his time at Ohio State. I have to wonder why. Ohio State throws the ball, so why was Wells ignored? The Eagles throw the ball to the back a lot. Does the offence change from that when Wells becomes the main back? I can't see that while Reid is the coach.

McCoy had a lot of catches at Pitt. He fits better in what they do now. The question on him is does he really want to play football. I ask this from things I have read on other boards up here about Pitt football. Some are saying that he really didn't want to leave Pitt this year, but was pushed into it by his family. Both will be used a lot behind Westbrook.

In the mock we are doing here, I took McCoy over Wells because of the pass receptions. I wanted Pettygrew, but he never made it to me. Nicks was the other guy I wanted. I really like Andre Brown from N.C.State around the 3rd round if I could have goten the TE in the first.

Yours is a very good mock.

bah007
02-16-2009, 12:04 AM
There are two sides up here on the Eagles picking Wells. What the Eagles are doing if they take a back high is finding Westbrook's replacement.
Wells only had 15 catches during his time at Ohio State. I have to wonder why. Ohio State throws the ball, so why was Wells ignored? The Eagles throw the ball to the back a lot. Does the offence change from that when Wells becomes the main back? I can't see that while Reid is the coach.

McCoy had a lot of catches at Pitt. He fits better in what they do now. The question on him is does he really want to play football. I ask this from things I have read on other boards up here about Pitt football. Some are saying that he really didn't want to leave Pitt this year, but was pushed into it by his family. Both will be used a lot behind Westbrook.

In the mock we are doing here, I took McCoy over Wells because of the pass receptions. I wanted Pettygrew, but he never made it to me. Nicks was the other guy I wanted. I really like Andre Brown from N.C.State around the 3rd round if I could have goten the TE in the first.

Yours is a very good mock.

Ohio St ran the ball 67% of the time on offense this year and 63% of the time last year so I wouldn't read much into it. They throw the ball less than most teams do.

If he has problems catching the ball in drills then I would worry about putting him in that offense though.

mussop
02-16-2009, 02:11 AM
awtysst- thanks for the words, as always appreciated!

I choose Unger over Mack because he plays mutlitple positions well & that is something Parcells covets. I also see Mack as a pure ZBS Center one who fits perfectly here in Houston with Kubiak I just can't project him going #15 or lasting until picking again in 2nd.

Results will follow shortly Michael Johnson combine will open some eyes, maybe not Mario Williams like numbers but above the field kind of numbers.

Jerry is the 2nd best DT in this draft, they tend to go a little higher than they should to teams like Denver who need to address weak interior DL production. If his high motor can sustain itself even @ altitude, very quick & agile on his feet, would make a great fit in the mile high city new defensive scheme.

I hope the Colts don't take Nicks, seriously he is better than you can possibly imagine (would love Texans to take him in the 2nd). At some point the Colts must re-tool with Dungy leaving this may be the time to restructure their salary cap while still in a position of strength (Marvin Harrisons cap hit is huge). One thing for sure is you must ensure a QB like Manning the tools to move the chains & score more points, Nicks would do this I have no doubt.

Used the Draft Pick Value Chart 15th pick = 1050 points the 18th pick = 900. The Bears 3rd #85 worth 165 points, you do the math.

:texflag:

Ask youreself this question. If we could upgrade the middle of our OL with a player that should not only start but be very very good for say the next decade, is that not worth the 15 th pick to you?

beerlover
02-16-2009, 08:58 AM
Ask youreself this question. If we could upgrade the middle of our OL with a player that should not only start but be very very good for say the next decade, is that not worth the 15 th pick to you?

The Texans achieved this with a 6th rd. pick (traded to Denver for the rights to Chris Myers). :cricket:

nunusguy
02-16-2009, 09:19 AM
Draft a guy #1 overall to play guard in the NFL ? Surely you jest B-L ?
FWIW, ProFootballWeekley.coms Nolan Nawrocki was on LZ & John Harris's 1560 Draft-Show this past Thursday and said he has the big 'Bama Olineman dropping out of the top ten because he said Smith has some issues's, including ongoing struggles to push away from the dinner table and thereby stay fit enough to play at a high-level.

beerlover
02-16-2009, 10:01 AM
Now for the rest of the Texans picks, pre-combine-

2). Robert Ayers, DE Tennessee 6031 273
If still on the board. second choice Paul Kruger, DE Utah. third choice DE Jarron Gilbert. theme is to take the best available DE in the second rd.

NFL Draft Scout Risers: Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee: Ayers entered the Senior Bowl hoping to prove he could rush the passer, as he finished with only three sacks as a senior despite earning first-team All-SEC honors. Spirited battles early in the week of practice against Ole Miss LT Michael Oher turned scouts on to Ayers, and for those who stuck around for the game, Ayers proved able to transfer his new-found burst into the stat book, leading the game with 1.5 sacks and earning Defensive MVP accolades. With only two games started entering his senior season, scouts will question whether Ayers is a flash in the pan, but his performance in Mobile could be enough to land him in the first round. - Rob Rang, The SportsXchange, NFLDraftScout.com

3a). Lawerence Sidbury, DE/OLB Richmond, 6023 265

Love his potential, explosive smooth athletic ability can flip hips & change direction on a dime. could be developed as situational pass rusher & OLB.

Lawrence Sidbury attracted attention at two postseason events just by being measured. The former University of Richmond defensive end has 35-inch arms and 10-inch hands, some of the longest/biggest among all NFL prospects, and highly valuable tools for block-shedding and a tackling. Sidbury took part in the East-West Shrine Game on Jan. 17 and the Senior Bowl on Jan. 24. "He had a chance to rush against these tackles that are rated highly," said UR coach Mike London. "And he goes out and he competes, and he does well against them. I'm hearing from a bunch of scouts that his stock is rising." Some scouts believe Sidbury, from Cheltenham, Md., has an NFL future at outside linebacker, though he played defensive end through four seasons as a Spider. If football doesn't work out, Sidbury earned a computer-science degree from UR and minored in mathematics. Sidbury is stationed in Fair Lawn, N.J., where until mid-February he will train at the Parisi Speed School, a performance-enhancement establishment. Then it's off the NFL combine from Feb. 18-24 in Indianapolis. Does it seem silly to you that 35-inch arms and 10-inch hands are valued so highly by NFL scouts? Yeah, I mean, you can't really help how long your arms and fingers are. They do help you though. They work in my favor. I just kind of had them, so I used them, just tried to keep blockers off me with them. - John O'Connor, Times-Dispatch

3b). Rashad Jennings, RB Liberty 6-1 234

By trading down the Texans once again address RB this time with a power style back to compliment Steve Slaton. Good instincts, north & south runner.

Like QB Rhett Bomar, Liberty running back Rashad Jennings started at a major program -- Pittsburgh. Unlike Bomar, Jennings made the decision himself to move schools, going to the Lynchburg, Va., university to be closer to his ailing father. This week he has looked as good, and possibly better, than all of the other backs on the field. His combination of size (6-1, 234) and quickness really stand out, and he looks natural catching the ball in the flat. - Chad Reuter, The Sports Xchange

4). A.Q. Shipley, Center Penn State 6010 297 (for mussop)

I'm upgrading Shipley grade one round, because he is also a long snapper which the Texans need since they will not resign Bryan Pittman. Also there is nobody to back-up Meyers or upgrade Meyers which ever the case may turn out to be so this pick has extra value for Texans & he should be there for the taking.

The Rimington Trophy award winner (nation's top center) was the anchor of Penn State's best offensive line in more than a decade. His height (6-foot-1) could hurt his draft position, but his strength, work ethic and intelligence will gain Shipley notice. Expect him to be a mid to late-round pick.

5). Ellis Lankster, CB West Virginia 5091 191

Also upgraded one round, trying to be realistic, great instincts, fast competitive & solid in run support could get a shot @ FS but is a solid CB.
CB Ellis Lankster put on a strong performance in the Senior Bowl and has been invited to the NFL combine, where he will try to improve his late-round projections. West Virginia has made a living off an odd-front, 3-3-5 stack defense that is built on speed. It took a while to rebuild the defense this year, but it has become one of the most solid in the nation, leading the Big East in fewest points allowed. CB Ellis Lankster is the best cover corner and a solid tackler.

6). Brandon Tate, WR/KR North Carolina 6-1 195

Playmaker who had severe season ending acl otherwise no way he is still on the board. He comes into camp 100% recovered & competes with Jacoby for WR/KR duties.

A knee injury that prematurely ended his season kept him from showing his true abilities. At the time of his injury, he was averaging better than 22 yards a punt return and more than 27 yards on returning kickoffs. Much will depend on how much he is able to show at the scouting combine.

7). Michael Bennett, DE Texas A&M 6-4 271

If still on the board. second choice Phillip Hunt, DE Houston, third choice Nick Reed, DE Oregon. overloading position but out of this bunch the Texans should generate a much improved pass rush.

East-West Shrine Tuesday practice: Another impressive lineman was Texas A&M Aggie Michael Bennett. He showed the strength to bull rush and move down the line while engaged, as well as the length to threaten right tackles off the edge. - Chad Reuter, The SportsXchange

beerlover
02-16-2009, 10:04 AM
Draft a guy #1 overall to play guard in the NFL ? Surely you jest B-L ?
FWIW, ProFootballWeekley.coms Nolan Nawrocki was on LZ & John Harris's 1560 Draft-Show this past Thursday and said he has the big 'Bama Olineman dropping out of the top ten because he said Smith has some issues's, including ongoing struggles to push away from the dinner table and thereby stay fit enough to play at a high-level.

sorry I missed that show, still waiting for the podcast.........:foottap:

actually there are several mock boards listing Andre as the top overall pick http://walterfootball.com/draftdata.php its just that I see him more of a LG as indicated from his battle @ the dinner table causing problems with speed rushers on the edge. still I don't discount the value of LG position if he is dominant as I think he will be.

beerlover
02-16-2009, 10:19 AM
Beerlover,
I like your idea for a trade, but I think we could get a fair amount more than just a 3rd to move down. With Minne, Detroit, and the Jets looking for a first round QB, I could see someone giving up a 2nd for the right to choose between Stafford and Sanchez. If that was the case we would pick 17, 18, 20 or 22. I would entertain the idea of doing a second trade and try to sell the teams with a WR need to jump back up and grab Harvin or a Nicks. I would even consider trading out of the first completely and picking up a first next year as well as an additional 2nd and 3rd + this year.

Here is another option, Detroit. what would they give over the point spread from the Draft Pick Value Chart to get Stafford? that 20th pick is worth 850 while early 3rd (#65) is worth 265 = 1115 Texans #15 worth 1050. maybe offering option of bpa who slips out of 2nd?

nunusguy
02-16-2009, 11:15 AM
sorry I missed that show, still waiting for the podcast.........:foottap:

actually there are several mock boards listing Andre as the top overall pick http://walterfootball.com/draftdata.php its just that I see him more of a LG as indicated from his battle @ the dinner table causing problems with speed rushers on the edge. still I don't discount the value of LG position if he is dominant as I think he will be.

I dunno but suspect all of those mocks have Smith listed as a "OT" ?
But hey, its your mock and if the guy you want to draft #1 in your mock will be playing guard then more power to you.

beerlover
02-16-2009, 11:22 AM
I dunno but suspect all of those mocks have Smith listed as a "OT" ?
But hey, its your mock and if the guy you want to draft #1 in your mock will be playing guard then more power to you.

Remember Robert Gallery?

nunusguy
02-16-2009, 12:46 PM
Remember Robert Gallery?
I sure do. And the situation with Gallery kinda makes my point for me because he was drafted something like #2 or #3 overall to be the Raiders "francise" LT, yet failed to do so and instead played RT or inside at guard. Anyway, because of his inability to play the all-important position of LT for the Raiders and because he was taken so high, he's been considered one of the biggest Draft busts among OLineman in recent years.

TimeKiller
02-16-2009, 12:48 PM
Overall I like your draft. I might've traded a D=line pick for O=line but I like who you picked.

beerlover
02-16-2009, 12:53 PM
Kidding aside the new regime in Detroit is near silent on intentions. What has been your impressions of Detroit? remember not that long ago it seemed Texans & Lions shared a parallel path, that changed when Capers/Casserly duo was replaced with Kubiak/Smith now Detroit makes the move replacing Marinelli/Millen with Mayhew/Harris/Lenehan/Schwartz.

soft.....dominated @ line of scrimmage......virtually no running game.......or pocket protection for QB flavor of the day......can't stop anyone defensively......etc. etc. etc.

Before addressing QB or doing what Atlanta did last season (taking Ryan #3 then trading up to get OT) I'm thinking reverse order. one because Stafford is not Ryan two they have their pick of OT's. this is actually ideal mock draft if your a Lion fan cause as you notice they still have a shot w/Stafford @ #15 with added protection in place. Flip a coin among the group, from one rumor to the next, from Senior Bowl to Combine they constantly change spots.

The Lions drafted Gosder Cherilus last year in the 1st to play RT & still have former 1st rd. pick LT Jeff Backus. the breakdown has been @ LG which also makes Jeff look bad, needs to be upgraded. free agent RG Stephen Peterson could also be gone. Railoa is a decent Center so if you do re-sign Peterson, filling the hole @ LG you solidify entire OL by taking Smith who makes move inside easy. that was my intention, not trying to confuse anyone but of course if he wants LT money odds are the Lions can negoiate with the next linemen on their list. I gave Smith the nod because when in the lineup Alabama was absolutely dominant the offense clicked, without him only average.

threetoedpete
02-16-2009, 02:50 PM
If the Fords are truly serious about rebuilding.....you'd think they get the most solid guy they can with the #1 overall and wait on the Qb for the 2010 class. There are two models out there. What San Diego did after the Ryan Leif disaster and what Atlanta did after the Vick disaster. I think the Kipper wives tale that you always draft the franchise Qb first is just that a wives tale.

mexican_texan
02-16-2009, 03:00 PM
I sure do. And the situation with Gallery kinda makes my point for me because he was drafted something like #2 or #3 overall to be the Raiders "francise" LT, yet failed to do so and instead played RT or inside at guard. Anyway, because of his inability to play the all-important position of LT for the Raiders and because he was taken so high, he's been considered one of the biggest Draft busts among OLineman in recent years.
Eric Winston went on the record as saying Gallery's feet were way too small for his frame, causing him to have bad balance, and bad footwork.

On the mock--I don't like Cushing, but I gotta give you props on the Lions pick. Everyone assumes they'll take Matt Stafford when they have bad lines on both sides of the ball.

nunusguy
02-16-2009, 05:45 PM
Eric Winston went on the record as saying Gallery's feet were way too small for his frame, causing him to have bad balance, and bad footwork.


Had not heard Winstons remarks ? Veeeery interesting.

The1ApplePie
02-16-2009, 09:46 PM
I think if Maclin is sitting there at 15, Kubes won't pass him up. Kubiak wanted Ginn and Maclin is just as fast with better catching ability

Honoring Earl 34
02-16-2009, 10:12 PM
Eric Winston went on the record as saying Gallery's feet were way too small for his frame, causing him to have bad balance, and bad footwork.

On the mock--I don't like Cushing, but I gotta give you props on the Lions pick. Everyone assumes they'll take Matt Stafford when they have bad lines on both sides of the ball.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2026/2203250973_b5fe835cff.jpg?v=0

beerlover
02-21-2009, 08:48 PM
Apparently Andre Smith has no desire to not be a http://sports.gearlive.com/blogimages/detroit_lions.jpg

bah007
02-21-2009, 09:02 PM
Apparently Andre Smith has no desire to not be a http://sports.gearlive.com/blogimages/detroit_lions.jpg

I would say it debatable that he even wants to be in the http://www.breakitdownblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/nfl-logo.jpg at this point.

mexican_texan
02-21-2009, 09:12 PM
I can't blame him. I really like the 20 yard endzones in the CFL too.

rarazz00
02-21-2009, 09:16 PM
I agree w/ TTP...I see at least 3 very good qb's comming out of the draft NEXT YEAR and If your picking #1..you better be damn sure this qb class is what you want...I too feel Detroit wont go qb in round 1...they are gonna build in the trenches this year on day 1...Next year they will pull the trigger on their franchise QB.:)

JCTexan
02-22-2009, 01:21 AM
I agree w/ TTP...I see at least 3 very good qb's comming out of the draft NEXT YEAR and If your picking #1..you better be damn sure this qb class is what you want...I too feel Detroit wont go qb in round 1...they are gonna build in the trenches this year on day 1...Next year they will pull the trigger on their franchise QB.:)

They could go Stafford #1 then take Britton at #20 then select the top available DE with their second round pick. Build the trenches and pick up your QB of the future. Sounds like a good start to their draft to me.

rarazz00
02-22-2009, 07:12 AM
They could go Stafford #1 then take Britton at #20 then select the top available DE with their second round pick. Build the trenches and pick up your QB of the future. Sounds like a good start to their draft to me.

Yeah, going 0-16 was an embarrasment not only for Detroit, but for the whole league...they had so many holes in their boat that it sank right off the dock...their not going to get every problem solved this draft nor the next. I just don't see their new HC being tied to any of this years QB's...it's gonna be the "trenchman" that get the nod early in Detroit this year...Next year..Bradford;McCoy; or Tebow..will be their target...:tiphat:

mussop
02-22-2009, 11:05 AM
Yeah, going 0-16 was an embarrasment not only for Detroit, but for the whole league...they had so many holes in their boat that it sank right off the dock...their not going to get every problem solved this draft nor the next. I just don't see their new HC being tied to any of this years QB's...it's gonna be the "trenchman" that get the nod early in Detroit this year...Next year..Bradford;McCoy; or Tebow..will be their target...:tiphat:

That would be a big turn around for that franchise. I personally think that is what they should do also. They have so many problems they are almost like an expansion team. This is an excelent draft for the trenches. They would be smart to draft their franchise LT of the next ten years and give him a year of experience before drafting a QB. We of all fans know what happens when you draft a QB first overall and dont give him the kind of protection that can allow him to grow.

beerlover
02-22-2009, 11:14 AM
not sure its a valid angle here or not? but the #1 overall pick, for now owned by Detroit, will have tremendous expectations from its football team & Lion fans given Detroit historical inept football & hard economic times. Your going to pay that #1 pick millions, so Detorit needs more than just a great player they need a hero to embrace who displays toughness, leadership, hard work & dominance on the football field. seems like too much pressure to place on a rookie QB, can't remember Matt leading Georgia anywhere despite having some talent? Smart money should be to attain a player like Mario Williams (who would still be the dominant prospect in this draft as well) that can be dominant with very low risk, who has great character the team can build around & fans can be proud of :heart:

So I figured they needed someone exceptional to build around in the trenches, protect a future franchise QB & improve a poor running game. Andre Smith has failed to deliver, you just don't no-show on the biggest interview of your life letting teammates & fan base down. that's why this was a Pre-Combine Mock Draft, its a fluid ever changing process :shades:

Clearly Baylor OT Jason Smith has stepped up to the challenge & replaced Andre as the best OL in this draft. this change will be reflected in my post combine mock draft as greater emphasis must be placed on character & how that fits not only team needs & bpa measureables but also best interest in various NFL cities to make the best combination :fans:

mussop
02-22-2009, 11:33 AM
not sure its a valid angle here or not? but the #1 overall pick, for now owned by Detroit, will have tremendous expectations from its football team & Lion fans given Detroit historical inept football & hard economic times. Your going to pay that #1 pick millions, so Detorit needs more than just a great player they need a hero to embrace who displays toughness, leadership, hard work & dominance on the football field. seems like too much pressure to place on a rookie QB, can't remember Matt leading Georgia anywhere despite having some talent? Smart money should be to attain a player like Mario Williams (who would still be the dominant prospect in this draft as well) that can be dominant with very low risk, who has great character the team can build around & fans can be proud of :heart:

So I figured they needed someone exceptional to build around in the trenches, protect a future franchise QB & improve a poor running game. Andre Smith has failed to deliver, you just don't no-show on the biggest interview of your life letting teammates & fan base down. that's why this was a Pre-Combine Mock Draft, its a fluid ever changing process :shades:

Clearly Baylor OT Jason Smith has stepped up to the challenge & replaced Andre as the best OL in this draft. this change will be reflected in my post combine mock draft as greater emphasis must be placed on character & how that fits not only team needs & bpa measureables but also best interest in various NFL cities to make the best combination :fans:

So have you moved Smith ahead of Monroe also? I just havent seen enough of him to make a judgement. I do believe which ever one grades out th best should be the Lions pick. If they go QB they will be committing franchise suicide for the next few years.

beerlover
02-22-2009, 12:31 PM
So have you moved Smith ahead of Monroe also? I just havent seen enough of him to make a judgement. I do believe which ever one grades out th best should be the Lions pick. If they go QB they will be committing franchise suicide for the next few years.

Jason Smith was already my #2 prospect. His performance in the weight room (33 reps) answered questions about his strength. almost 34" arm length, very fluid in all skills testing & love his aggressive mind set. Joe Thomas is a great young LT, but Jason looks like he has all the tools to become elite w/higher ceiling.

Monore reminds me more of D'Brickashaw (footwork/strength) played with him too, but lifted only 23 times thats a significant drop-off but still excellent skill set to play LT @ the next level. remains a top 5 pick.

nunusguy
02-22-2009, 12:41 PM
You're #1 pick is now dropping faster than a hailstone in a Thunderstorm
B-L. Where do you expect him going in your revised mock 2.0 ?
And how about Crabtree after the disclosure of his stress-fracture ?

beerlover
02-22-2009, 01:12 PM
You're #1 pick is now dropping faster than a hailstone in a Thunderstorm
B-L. Where do you expect him going in your revised mock 2.0 ?
And how about Crabtree after the disclosure of his stress-fracture ?

Bengals #6 - 49'ers #10

major events like the NFL Combine are a reason to do pre/post mock drafts. this represents a fluid process thats ever changing, like this unexpected event, so by the time the actual draft rolls around you can support opinion. Heck, its pre-mature to have a final cut mock draft in place, regardless its something I enjoy doing :specnatz:

bah007
02-22-2009, 01:17 PM
I have Jason Smith as the #1 OT and Monroe #2 as well.

WolverineFan
02-22-2009, 02:15 PM
I have Jason Smith as the #1 OT and Monroe #2 as well.

I think Monroe is the more polished prospect, but I think Smith has more potential.

awtysst
02-22-2009, 02:28 PM
That would be a big turn around for that franchise. I personally think that is what they should do also. They have so many problems they are almost like an expansion team. This is an excelent draft for the trenches. They would be smart to draft their franchise LT of the next ten years and give him a year of experience before drafting a QB. We of all fans know what happens when you draft a QB first overall and dont give him the kind of protection that can allow him to grow.

You know if they are smart/luck they could rebuild their Oline this year. They could grab Jason Smith or Eugene Monroe at #1, grab the top center in Alex Mack at 20, grab OG Duke Robinson at 33, and then hope Phil Loadholt drops into their first 3rd rounder. If not, they can grab Fenuki Tupou as their RT. Sure this is a bunch of rookies and they will make mistakes. Thats why they keep Orlovski and let him get the tar beaten out of him as this young line starts to gel. Then next draft they grab a QB and let him sit a year behind a Orlovski/FA veteran. That way when the new QB is ready to go, you already have a young OLine that has gelled and is ready to protect him.

thunderkyss
02-22-2009, 02:39 PM
The Texans achieved this with a 6th rd. pick (traded to Denver for the rights to Chris Myers). :cricket:

If you look at how Denver constructs it's OL, at least in the time Shanahan & Kubiak were there, you'd notice there weren't many 1st round tackles picks who stayed around for very long.

Myers didn't start a game his first two seasons, then he starts all 16 games in 2007, before being traded to us.

They drafted Greg Foster in the first round of 2003. He never made it to the left side, then was traded to Detroit. Detroit also drafted Gosder in the first round last year. So I don't think they'll be going OL..... They have got to go heavy on Defense this year. FA, draft... they've got to sell out on defense.

But anyway, I think, like you do beerlover, Kubiak is satisfied with what he has on the OL. Brown, Pitts, Meyers, Briesel, Winston, Daniels....... and what he has backing them up...... Salaam(may be his last season, if he makes the team), Studdard, White, Butler & Dressen. Then there's no telling who is being developed on the practice squad.

I like us taking a LB.... to me, that would make the most sense. LB, is our weekest position. IMHO, then cornerback, then Running back, then DT.

Also, put me in the crowd that says no way the first 4 picks won't be OL.

thunderkyss
02-22-2009, 02:48 PM
Another thing. Not only did they draft an OT in the first round last year, but they also drafted a QB in the second round.

beerlover
02-22-2009, 03:02 PM
Also, put me in the crowd that says no way the first 4 picks won't be OL.

add me to the list post-combine, trimming it down (2) top 5? w/maybe just 3 in top 10 :)

Mari-OWNED!
02-22-2009, 06:59 PM
I love the mock, although I'm also having the "no way in hell it's going to happen" approach.

But let's say it does happen that way, there are couple things I am a little skeptical of...

1. I'd probably take Rashad Jennings with the first pick in the 3rd round. Mostly because he's my favorite RB to complement Slaton in this draft, and I wouldn't want to pass up on that opportunity. (I'm paranoid like that!)

2. I just don't think A.Q. Shipley will be available in the 4th, or Michael Bennett still being there in the 7th.

Nice mock, I can tell you put a lot of time into it.

beerlover
02-22-2009, 10:32 PM
1. I'd probably take Rashad Jennings with the first pick in the 3rd round. Mostly because he's my favorite RB to complement Slaton in this draft, and I wouldn't want to pass up on that opportunity. (I'm paranoid like that!)

agree with you, take him if he's there first chance you get. Texans most likely just have one 3rd. anyway.

2. I just don't think A.Q. Shipley will be available in the 4th, or Michael Bennett still being there in the 7th.

I still believe Shipley will be there, can only play one position, a bit undersized with short arms but then again Gibbs likes high motor intense competitive over achievers. Bennett should be gone, we'll see tomorrow how he performs, would be a nice addition seems more of a role player not an everydown player thats why I downgraded his stock but in the 7th thats excellent value for sure.

badboy
02-23-2009, 05:25 PM
[QUOTE=beerlover;1119352]Now for the rest of the Texans picks, pre-combine-

2). Robert Ayers, DE Tennessee 6031 273
If still on the board. second choice Paul Kruger, DE Utah. third choice DE Jarron Gilbert. theme is to take the best available DE in the second rd.



3a). Lawerence Sidbury, DE/OLB Richmond, 6023 265

Love his potential, explosive smooth athletic ability can flip hips & change direction on a dime. could be developed as situational pass rusher & OLB.



3b). Rashad Jennings, RB Liberty 6-1 234

By trading down the Texans once again address RB this time with a power style back to compliment Steve Slaton. Good instincts, north & south runner.



4). A.Q. Shipley, Center Penn State 6010 297 (for mussop)

I'm upgrading Shipley grade one round, because he is also a long snapper which the Texans need since they will not resign Bryan Pittman. Also there is nobody to back-up Meyers or upgrade Meyers which ever the case may turn out to be so this pick has extra value for Texans & he should be there for the taking.



5). Ellis Lankster, CB West Virginia 5091 191

Also upgraded one round, trying to be realistic, great instincts, fast competitive & solid in run support could get a shot @ FS but is a solid CB.


6). Brandon Tate, WR/KR North Carolina 6-1 195

Playmaker who had severe season ending acl otherwise no way he is still on the board. He comes into camp 100% recovered & competes with Jacoby for WR/KR duties.



7). Michael Bennett, DE Texas A&M 6-4 271

If still on the board. second choice Phillip Hunt, DE Houston, third choice Nick Reed, DE Oregon. overloading position but out of this bunch the Texans should generate a much improved pass rush.[/QUOTE I thought I had posted but didn't. I just disagree with you on need at LB vs where you pick. I like the trade with Chicago but would have tried another trade down with Atlanta. Cushing is good but not needed in first. I like Ayers and Sidbury in 3rd solves the OLB you want and you do not have double up for 2 spots with 3 players. Jennings in 3rd is excellent.

1. trade #15 to Chicago getting a 3rd; then trade to #24 with Atlanta for a 2nd round or 3rd and 5th. I see Atlanta jumping on Cushing and we get more picks. AT #24 we select Ron Brace NT (a bit high but he is rated a 2nd)

2 a (ours) Robert Ayers DE
2b (Atlanta) Max Unger Center
3a (ours) Sidbury (I'm ok with this)
3b (Bears) Jennings RB
3 c (Atlanta) FS Rashad Johnson
4th (ours) ?
4th (Vikings for Sage)?

whiskeyrbl
02-23-2009, 06:13 PM
[QUOTE=beerlover;1119352]Now for the rest of the Texans picks, pre-combine-

2). Robert Ayers, DE Tennessee 6031 273
If still on the board. second choice Paul Kruger, DE Utah. third choice DE Jarron Gilbert. theme is to take the best available DE in the second rd.



3a). Lawerence Sidbury, DE/OLB Richmond, 6023 265

Love his potential, explosive smooth athletic ability can flip hips & change direction on a dime. could be developed as situational pass rusher & OLB.



3b). Rashad Jennings, RB Liberty 6-1 234

By trading down the Texans once again address RB this time with a power style back to compliment Steve Slaton. Good instincts, north & south runner.



4). A.Q. Shipley, Center Penn State 6010 297 (for mussop)

I'm upgrading Shipley grade one round, because he is also a long snapper which the Texans need since they will not resign Bryan Pittman. Also there is nobody to back-up Meyers or upgrade Meyers which ever the case may turn out to be so this pick has extra value for Texans & he should be there for the taking.



5). Ellis Lankster, CB West Virginia 5091 191

Also upgraded one round, trying to be realistic, great instincts, fast competitive & solid in run support could get a shot @ FS but is a solid CB.


6). Brandon Tate, WR/KR North Carolina 6-1 195

Playmaker who had severe season ending acl otherwise no way he is still on the board. He comes into camp 100% recovered & competes with Jacoby for WR/KR duties.



7). Michael Bennett, DE Texas A&M 6-4 271

If still on the board. second choice Phillip Hunt, DE Houston, third choice Nick Reed, DE Oregon. overloading position but out of this bunch the Texans should generate a much improved pass rush.[/QUOTE I thought I had posted but didn't. I just disagree with you on need at LB vs where you pick. I like the trade with Chicago but would have tried another trade down with Atlanta. Cushing is good but not needed in first. I like Ayers and Sidbury in 3rd solves the OLB you want and you do not have double up for 2 spots with 3 players. Jennings in 3rd is excellent.

1. trade #15 to Chicago getting a 3rd; then trade to #24 with Atlanta for a 2nd round or 3rd and 5th. I see Atlanta jumping on Cushing and we get more picks. AT #24 we select Ron Brace NT (a bit high but he is rated a 2nd)

2 a (ours) Robert Ayers DE
2b (Atlanta) Max Unger Center
3a (ours) Sidbury (I'm ok with this)
3b (Bears) Jennings RB
3 c (Atlanta) FS Rashad Johnson
4th (ours) ?
4th (Vikings for Sage)?
No way we draft 3 DE's in one draft.

beerlover
02-24-2009, 04:05 AM
[QUOTE=badboy;1124878]
No way we draft 3 DE's in one draft.

you think its a little overkill :deadhorse I'm sick of excuses.

Its probable the Texans cut Weaver, maybe in a few hours. theres not much depth or high end talent after Mario. if they don't strike a F/A deal Texans will be forced to address this need(s) via the draft. all three are ascending higher, Ayers end of first early second. Sidbury, might move up to my second round pick & forget about it. Bennett has NFL DE size to play strongside, thats a hot button in this draft with lack of quality prospects @ his position. so screw it take him regardless how many DE's you select. just imagine the infusion of young, talented, aggressive DL is this not what Bush promises to change the defensive culture of Texans defense? :texflag:

threetoedpete
02-24-2009, 11:34 PM
[QUOTE=whiskeyrbl;1124917]

you think its a little overkill :deadhorse I'm sick of excuses.

Its probable the Texans cut Weaver, maybe in a few hours. theres not much depth or high end talent after Mario. if they don't strike a F/A deal Texans will be forced to address this need(s) via the draft. all three are ascending higher, Ayers end of first early second. Sidbury, might move up to my second round pick & forget about it. Bennett has NFL DE size to play strongside, thats a hot button in this draft with lack of quality prospects @ his position. so screw it take him regardless how many DE's you select. just imagine the infusion of young, talented, aggressive DL is this not what Bush promises to change the defensive culture of Texans defense? :texflag:

Me too Beerlover. slam it and be done with it. Just like we did with the OLT last year.