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View Full Version : Climb Aboard the Dream Weaver Train


Wolf
02-14-2009, 12:45 PM
http://www.inthebullseye.com/

The Texans made a couple of highly anticipated moves this week, waiving running back Ahman Green and linebacker Morlon Greenwood, but when the announcement came, many believed the list had been missing one or two names. Defensive end Anthony Weaver and safety Will Demps both have sizeable base salary commitments in 2009, and neither player seems to be a lock to be named as a starter this season.

Weaver, the first major signing by the Texans after the hire of Gary Kubiak (one I loudly criticized three years ago), has two years remaining on a contract that is scheduled to pay him $3.5 million this year in base salary. Cutting him would accelerate the unamortized bonus money to hit this year’s salary cap to the tune of $5.4 million in dead money. Remember, that as 2009 is the last capped year for the current Collective Bargaining Agreement, there is no significance to June 1st cuts this year. In other words, teams are not able to forward future year’s dead money to next year’s cap, as 2010 is set to become an uncapped season without a new labor agreement.

While cutting Weaver would net to a cap hit this season, waving goodbye to Demps would actually save a little bit of space. Demps is entering the final year of a two-year contract that is set to pay him a base salary of $2.35 million this year. Cutting him will leave $500,000 in his wake, resulting in a cap savings of $1.85 million.

So why were both spared while Green and Greenwood are gone?

Hardcore Texan
02-14-2009, 12:56 PM
Why the big dropoff last seaon in Demps from the season prior? He was a pro bowl alternate and making a lot of nice stops with some hard hitting. He just didn't seem to see the field that much last year.

I think the NFL and the Player's union needs to get a new CBA in place, it's in their best interest. If the economy continues down the pisser a LOT of folks will stop spending money on football including sponsors. Stop paying rookies that have never seen the field so damn much and give it to the veterans that have stuck around and earned their keep.

DiehardChris
02-14-2009, 12:58 PM
My thoughts from a few days ago. (http://www.houstondiehards.com/?p=3575)

They knew Morlon was making WAY too much money to come back. I think they're just waiting on the draft's effect on the DE position.

Demps will be gone. I think they kept him because they think they might be able to get a 6th or 7th for him. Weaver is untradeable. Demps' contract isn't so ridiculous that a team might give a (very) late pick for him.

I mean - nobody WILL give us a pick for him, but I think the Texans figure they have nothing to lose by trying. Not to compare the situations - but kind of like the Falcons trying to trade Mike Vick. They know nobody's stupid enough - but they lose nothing by putting it out there.

DiehardChris
02-14-2009, 01:00 PM
Why the big dropoff last seaon in Demps from the season prior? He was a pro bowl alternate and making a lot of nice stops with some hard hitting. He just didn't seem to see the field that much last year.

I think the NFL and the Player's union needs to get a new CBA in place, it's in their best interest. If the economy continues down the pisser a LOT of folks will stop spending money on football including sponsors. Stop paying rookies that have never seen the field so damn much and give it to the veterans that have stuck around and earned their keep.

He started gambling and losing in pass coverage. Then when he stopped gambling - his pass coverage just plain sucked. He was SO BAD that he wasn't even active for a few games.

Hervoyel
02-14-2009, 01:27 PM
I think that Weaver and Demps, Green and Greenwood are all totally different problems and require different answers. It's no coincidence that both of them are defenders and that we're making big changes on that side of the ball.

Greenwood was an obvious cut because he's an enormous liability when he's on the field. His salary was too high but more significant than that is the fact that he might just be the worst linebacker on our roster. He was going to go even if his contract had been for the veteran minimum.

Green was also an obvious cut because he cannot stay healthy and on the field. Add to that the fact that Slaton emerged and Moats backed him up adequately and there's no set of circumstances by which Ahman Green can be on this team next season.

With Demps however you have a guy who played well for us in 2007, less effectively in 2008, and who makes "not crazy" money so... with a new defensive backs coach and a new philosophy I think Demps makes it to training camp while the new coaches evaluate him and determine whether they can use him. It might just be temporary but it makes sense to me.

The same thing is partially true with Weaver. He's been asked to do one thing for three years in Richard Smith's defense and failed miserably at it. He's expensive to cut and that's a big part of it but I also think that most of the guys on defense who did not excel in the old scheme will get evaluated and that some of them will get a shot to perform in Frank Bush's defense if he thinks they were not used to properly. Weaver might be one of these. I think he at least makes it to camp.

ChampionTexan
02-14-2009, 01:54 PM
I think that Weaver and Demps, Green and Greenwood are all totally different problems and require different answers. It's no coincidence that both of them are defenders and that we're making big changes on that side of the ball.

Greenwood was an obvious cut because he's an enormous liability when he's on the field. His salary was too high but more significant than that is the fact that he might just be the worst linebacker on our roster. He was going to go even if his contract had been for the veteran minimum.

Green was also an obvious cut because he cannot stay healthy and on the field. Add to that the fact that Slaton emerged and Moats backed him up adequately and there's no set of circumstances by which Ahman Green can be on this team next season.

With Demps however you have a guy who played well for us in 2007, less effectively in 2008, and who makes "not crazy" money so... with a new defensive backs coach and a new philosophy I think Demps makes it to training camp while the new coaches evaluate him and determine whether they can use him. It might just be temporary but it makes sense to me.

The same thing is partially true with Weaver. He's been asked to do one thing for three years in Richard Smith's defense and failed miserably at it. He's expensive to cut and that's a big part of it but I also think that most of the guys on defense who did not excel in the old scheme will get evaluated and that some of them will get a shot to perform in Frank Bush's defense if he thinks they were not used to properly. Weaver might be one of these. I think he at least makes it to camp.

I actually believe this is pretty simple and straight-forward. When you look at the year-end depth chart, factor in expiring contracts, and consider the fact that free agency and the draft haven't yet taken place, Demps and Weaver are starters, and Green and Greenwood are not.

Once we re-sign, sign, or draft players who the coaches believe will be starters at their positions, I think there's a very good chance they'll both be gone shortly thereafter. I suppose it's possible that they could stick around as depth, but Weaver's salary will probably preclude that, and the fact that Demps lost his starting job to a guy signed in September, and was inactive for most of the games late in the year when the defense played it's best doesn't work in his favor.

V3rm0nt3r
02-14-2009, 02:16 PM
I actually believe this is pretty simple and straight-forward. When you look at the year-end depth chart, factor in expiring contracts, and consider the fact that free agency and the draft haven't yet taken place, Demps and Weaver are starters, and Green and Greenwood are not.

Once we re-sign, sign, or draft players who the coaches believe will be starters at their positions, I think there's a very good chance they'll both be gone shortly thereafter. I suppose it's possible that they could stick around as depth, but Weaver's salary will probably preclude that, and the fact that Demps lost his starting job to a guy signed in September, and was inactive for most of the games late in the year when the defense played it's best doesn't work in his favor.

that is what i was thinking.

with no clear 1st round safety yet and no consensus number one 4-3 DE in the draft why not wait and see who either emerges in the draft or who you can pick up in free agency. one more question. can Smith try to re structure Demps' contract for depth or is that a no no?

beerlover
02-14-2009, 02:37 PM
Weaver seemed much improved @ the end of last season (was finally healthy & fully recovered from shoulder surgery) + provides veteren leadership & moral fiber (sounds cool). Anthony is a good guy representing the class this organization prides itself in. I wouldn't take that dead money hit going into his contract year instead at least let him play it out (Bush may have different plans for him).

barrett
02-14-2009, 02:50 PM
i think it's as simple as letting guys who contributed stick around and compete. we're not in a position where we need to clear cap space.

PHAROAH
02-14-2009, 06:02 PM
Cut Demps and move on and maybewe move Weaver inside as a pass rusher on 3rd downs as a specialists because he isn't quick enough off the edge. $1.85 million of savings to release demps makes since to spend that money on another player who can bring something to the table.

dalemurphy
02-14-2009, 06:07 PM
Cut Demps and move on and maybewe move Weaver inside as a pass rusher on 3rd downs as a specialists because he isn't quick enough off the edge. $1.85 million of savings to release demps makes since to spend that money on another player who can bring something to the table.

There really isn't any point in cutting Demps until there's a replacement for him. We have over 20 roster spots to fill right now so I think some prudence makes sense right now.

V3rm0nt3r
02-14-2009, 06:28 PM
There really isn't any point in cutting Demps until there's a replacement for him. We have over 20 roster spots to fill right now so I think some prudence makes sense right now.

the expectation is that at least one safety will be brought in during the draft. from early or late is anybody's speculation but one should be taken.

saying that i agree with you that we shouldn't just cut him for the sake of cutting him but rather wait and maybe let him compete in TC. the guy WAS after all a pro bowl alternate 1 year ago.

Lucky
02-14-2009, 06:38 PM
...and maybewe move Weaver inside as a pass rusher on 3rd downs as a specialists because he isn't quick enough off the edge.
The only thing Weaver specializes in is dropping his big fat game check into his bank's depository. He's been tried as an inside rusher in passing situations and, like everything else, he's failed miserably.

Weaver seemed much improved @ the end of last season...
Really? Much improved? I thought the defense improved the less Weaver saw the field. And even had he improved (which is very debatable), a few good games shouldn't trump 2 1/2 years of suckitude. It didn't for Richard Smith.

From the Keith's article, linked above:

What might be puzzling, however, at least in the case of Weaver, is why he isn’t asking to be cut. Surely, if fans can see the writing on the wall that his performance has not measured up to his salary, then it might behoove him to seek a new team in March, a time when other teams have more money to spend. It might also be easier for him to get up to speed with a new team at a time when camps and offseason workouts have yet to begin.It's not that puzzling. Weaver won't get anywhere near on the free agent market the $3.5 million he's due on his current contract. Weaver could gt a big chunk of that if he were to trip on a blade of grass and wind up on IR. The Texans would be fools to let Weaver participate in OTAs or mini camps, much less training camp.

Maddict5
02-14-2009, 07:32 PM
The only thing Weaver specializes in is dropping his big fat game check into his bank's depository. He's been tried as an inside rusher in passing situations and, like everything else, he's failed miserably.


Really? Much improved? I thought the defense improved the less Weaver saw the field. And even had he improved (which is very debatable), a few good games shouldn't trump 2 1/2 years of suckitude. It didn't for Richard Smith.

From the Keith's article, linked above:

It's not that puzzling. Weaver won't get anywhere near on the free agent market the $3.5 million he's due on his current contract. Weaver could gt a big chunk of that if he were to trip on a blade of grass and wind up on IR. The Texans would be fools to let Weaver participate in OTAs or mini camps, much less training camp.

another ND homer :rolleyes:... stop trying to gloss it over
















:splits:

beerlover
02-14-2009, 08:03 PM
Really? Much improved? I thought the defense improved the less Weaver saw the field. And even had he improved (which is very debatable), a few good games shouldn't trump 2 1/2 years of suckitude. It didn't for Richard Smith.

Yeah, really, about last half of season three starting in Minnesota. the timing of Weaver signing to Houston was doomed from inception, the Texans where changing scheme & coaches then used the #1 overall pick on the same position he played. sucks to be him I guess so he had to kick inside. obviously thats not his bag, he is more of a coverage end who is solid in run support but has very limited pass rushing skill. It would be nice if everyones game was well rounded but now I'm convinced this staff know him & how best to utilize his talents. this is why the Texans are after a speed rushing speicialist it doesn't mean Weaver is a waste or does not fit into Bush system going forward. bottom line he has more value on this team than off it combined with negating affects of dead money. :texflag:

PHAROAH
02-15-2009, 02:43 AM
Well let's get rid of Weaver then and let's stop wasting time I would like to dump Demps too this is taking cap space that we can use on someone for the future instead of waiting.

Lucky
02-15-2009, 07:10 AM
...obviously thats not his bag, he is more of a coverage end...
A coverage end? Is there such a position? Should there be such a position?

I dispute the assertion that Weaver is "solid" versus the run. I don't think any d-lineman on the team can be considered solid in that department. Mario has his moments, but he gets caught jumping inside, playing too tall, or blindly running upfield. Weaver's problem is that he just gets blown off the the LOS.

Mario can be coached up. Weaver is just not good enough. At anything other than being a "coverage end". Whatever that is.

V3rm0nt3r
02-15-2009, 09:08 AM
here's a name that hasn't come up yet.

Andre Davis- 2008- 13 receptions- 213 yds.

2.1 million base salary
900 k bonus

http://www.inthebullseye.com/cap.html

that's $230,769.23 a catch or $14,084.51 a yd.

infantrycak
02-15-2009, 09:32 AM
here's a name that hasn't come up yet.

Andre Davis- 2008- 13 receptions- 213 yds.

2.1 million base salary
900 k bonus

http://www.inthebullseye.com/cap.html

that's $230,769.23 a catch or $14,084.51 a yd.

Which ignores his kick returns.

V3rm0nt3r
02-15-2009, 10:03 AM
Which ignores his kick returns.

so sorry.

23.09 yards a return. no touchdowns. a long of 50. WOW! don't get me wrong, they aren't bad stats but are they really worth 3 million dollars?

Kaiser Toro
02-15-2009, 10:06 AM
so sorry.

23.09 yards a return. no touchdowns. a long of 50. WOW! don't get me wrong, they aren't bad stats but are they really worth 3 million dollars?

If you cut him it costs us 600k against the cap. We are looking for net gains, not net losses. AD was banged up and filled in admirably two years ago when AJ was out. He is a luxury at this point in time.

Blake
02-15-2009, 10:12 AM
Which ignores his kick returns.

Doesn't matter when a rookie could put up the return numbers he had last year. Zero TD's. 23.1 AVG.

He may have been "battling" through injuries.

TimeKiller
02-15-2009, 11:26 AM
Did anybody even notice when he missed a few games mid-season?

beerlover
02-15-2009, 12:13 PM
A coverage end? Is there such a position? Should there be such a position?

I dispute the assertion that Weaver is "solid" versus the run. I don't think any d-lineman on the team can be considered solid in that department. Mario has his moments, but he gets caught jumping inside, playing too tall, or blindly running upfield. Weaver's problem is that he just gets blown off the the LOS.

Mario can be coached up. Weaver is just not good enough. At anything other than being a "coverage end". Whatever that is.

It's not that hard to notice this just watch some film & tell me you don't see Weaver dropping into coverage. Instead of rushing the passer & getting burned underneath with cheap little dumps, last half of the season Texans played prevent defense & Richard used him off LOS, second level as a safety valve like ILB. maybe this was required when Diles went down, & Adibi was in & out of the lineup that Weaver was used in support, ie., "coverage end".

Check out his numbers in Baltimore who let him go after four years, don't really see much difference in productivity, the Texans simply reached in Free Agency to address LDE (before 2006 draft). I certainly agree they overpaid. Not only did they overpay they no longer had need of his services (after drafting Mario Williams). Now three years later he is a solid LDE NFL jouneyman, good character, expereinced who might fit better in a 3-4 system.

2005: Started eight games at left defensive end, totaling 46 tackles, two sacks, and a recovered fumble…posted career-highs with 10 tackles and two sacks in an overtime win over the Pittsburgh Steelers at M&T Bank Stadium (11/20)…recovered a fumble vs. Minnesota (12/25)…battled through an assortment of injuries which cost him six games.

2004: Started all but one game at left defensive end…posted 61 tackles, including 35 solo, while ranking fourth on the team with four sacks for minus-23 yards…grabbed the first interception of his career off of current Texans QB Sage Rosenfels in the season finale against Miami (1/2/05).

2003: Started 15 regular season games, missing one because of a neck stinger, and played in one postseason game…posted 63 tackles, 43 solo, seven passes defensed, five sacks, two forced fumbles, and two fumble recoveries…started and posted six tackles with two sacks for 14 yards (his first-career multi-sack game) at Cincinnati on (10/19)…had six tackles in the Ravens’ Wild Card loss against Tennessee (1/3/04).

2002: Was one of two rookies, along with S Ed Reed, to start all 16 games…finished with 69 tackles, four passes defensed and one forced fumble…also was second on the team with 3.5 sacks for 33 yards.

beerlover
02-15-2009, 09:04 PM
found this from 2006-

North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams, the top defensive player in the draft, is coming to Houston today to visit with the Texans.
The Texans insisted Sunday they are serious about taking Williams, who is rated as a better prospect than Julius Peppers, the defensive end taken second by Carolina in 2002. The Texans are ready to start contract negotiations. Under NFL rules, they can negotiate with any players they're considering drafting with the top pick April 29. They can negotiate with Williams, Reggie Bush and Vince Young and sign one before the draft.
Although left defensive end Anthony Weaver was their top priority in free agency, and Antwan Peek should be ideal for right end in the 4-3, the Texans insist that bringing in Williams isn't a ploy to help them sign Bush, who's expected to be the top pick.

The Pencil Neck
02-16-2009, 12:07 AM
found this from 2006-

.

That was a great find.

mexican_texan
02-16-2009, 12:16 AM
Did anybody even notice when he missed a few games mid-season?
I did. We need him as a kick returner. Until Jacoby gets better, we need Other Andre. I think Other Andre was on the receiving end of the best play in Texans history, but I'm not so attatched to him to believe we won't look for a better deep threat in the draft. Speaking of which, the WR from Miami(Darnell Jenkins?,) what type of receiver is he?

Edit: here's his bio from Miami, granted a bit outdated as it's from before his senior year:


CAREER: Experienced and quick possession receiver and kick returner who was on his way to his finest season before suffering a knee injury in last season's third game...Received a medical hardship waiver and will be 100 percent this season...Took over at flanker in 2006, filling the role Roscoe Parrish and Sinorice Moss held the previous two seasons...Has career totals of 62 receptions for 675 yards (10.9-yard average) and four touchdowns...Valuable member of the Hurricanes' receiving corps from 2003-05, during which time he missed only two games...Talented speedster with good hands who worked his way into the Hurricanes' rotation at wide receiver in 2003 as a true freshman...Dependable third-down receiver...Also returns kickoffs and punts...Competed as a member of the track and field team during the indoor season, but missed most of spring football practice to attend to a family issue...Graduated in December 2006 with a degree in liberal arts and is pursuing a second degree in sociology.


Looks like Other Andre's job isn't too safe.

barrett
02-16-2009, 05:26 AM
I don't know what his cap stuff is. I know he got payed last off season. I don't know if he's one of those guys that would be too expensive to cut. I think we do need him currently but that's without any current competition. Nobody could forsee our WR corps being this talented. He's certainly less important than they thought he would be when they resigned him.

Good for him though. He seems like a super nice guy. I'm glad he got his.

mexican_texan
02-16-2009, 10:42 AM
I'd rather have Andre Davis returning kicks than Jacoby or Ryan Moats, who I don't expect back.

threetoedpete
02-16-2009, 11:16 AM
Well beerlover one thing's for sure. If they were going to dump Weaver and eat the money they would of done it last week . Seems obvious that they cleared money to do want they want to do with Robinson.

That perception could prompt the Texans to use the franchise tag on Robinson, which would require the team to tender to Robinson a one-year deal worth $9.957 million.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/02/15/dunta-in-demand/

Now exactly who would pay him twenty three million with twenty guaranteed, they don't say.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/02/09/2009-projected-free-agents-cornerback/

All the bitching done about Reeves the question remains who on that list would you pay ten million a year to replace him ? They have three young corners. Sooner or later you throw them in and see who can swim and who can't.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/mcclain/6257321.html

Robinson’s contract expires Feb. 27. He’ll be a free agent available to the highest bidder, including the Texans, of course.

The Texans had plenty of salary cap room to sign Robinson before they saved $8.5 million Tuesday when they waived running back Ahman Green and outside linebacker Morlon Greenwood.

It doesn’t take a genius to get an idea of what Robinson wants.

He views himself as an elite cornerback, one who overcame career-threatening injuries last season when the Texans were 1-4 without him and 7-4 with him, including 5-1 down the stretch. And he played at only 80 percent because of the operations on his knee and hamstring.

My answer to John is that if you can find a fool to give you two high ones for a Cb with a major injury on his resume....you do the deal. And you get the paper work in before they have a chance to change their minds.

Robinson wouldn’t be happy with it because he’ll want guaranteed money more than twice that amount.

Seems to me they are set up to Live with Weaver and a first step guy rotating with him. Or they are going to trade him to a 3-4 team before the draft. Same with the young corners applies to the DE/DT tweeners on the roster. Sooner or later they have to prove they belong.

TheRealJoker
02-16-2009, 01:38 PM
Andre Davis is a tremendous special teams gunner as well as KR/deep threat at WR.

He's the only consistent deep threat on the roster other than AJ. He was hurt for part of last season and KW/OD took his catches.

He gets the contract that he gets because of his special teams work and the fact that if AJ goes down he's the only other guy who's proven he can stretch the field.

Granted, he's a luxury. But luxury players are the ones who get traded down the road to fill needs when someone comes calling. Its about time the Texans finally have a luxury player on the roster. If the light buld ever goes off in Jacoby's head maybe we can trade Davis to a team and fill a need in the process? Until then, he's got a spot on this football team and we've got room to keep him.