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rollinstone18
02-11-2009, 11:47 AM
A lot of people think this guy is garbage. I'm not one of them. Dude has the ideal size for a 4-3 DE at 6'7'' and 260-270lbs. He's got great burst off the LOS, can play the run effectively, and dude creates plays. His knocks are inconsistent production and he'll take plays off.

Highlight reel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzKWDGf5-Hc&feature=related)

Interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeXIeW1KOyY)

With proper coaching and having a guy like Mario as a mentor, I think he'd be in a great situation here and it'd better his chances to realize his potential.

bah007
02-11-2009, 11:55 AM
Johnson has all the measurables, plus he is an elite athlete. But there are questions about his effort and work ethic.

To me, he is in the same class as Vontae Davis. Both are elite athletes who have had rare moments where they show what they are truly capable of. But most of the time, they do just enough to get by.

I'm not a fan of his.

beerlover
02-11-2009, 12:19 PM
I would imagine the Texans A) interview him @ the combine & if impressive B) envite him to Reliant for a private workout :whip::splits::jogger:

superdave532
02-11-2009, 12:19 PM
I'd heard he was 6'7''. but I'd also heard that he was a little light for his size at closer to 240 lbs. than 260-270. The combine will say more, and it seems like once all these draftees head towards the start of the season they put on some questionable weight, but wouldn't 240-250 make him a little too light for how tall he is to play a 4-3 DE?

bah007
02-11-2009, 12:25 PM
I'd heard he was 6'7''. but I'd also heard that he was a little light for his size at closer to 240 lbs. than 260-270. The combine will say more, and it seems like once all these draftees head towards the start of the season they put on some questionable weight, but wouldn't 240-250 make him a little too light for how tall he is to play a 4-3 DE?

Weight is overrated, IMO. It's all about hip strength, leg strength, and leverage.

The correlation is that bigger guys are usually stronger. But that doesn't mean that the more you weigh, the stronger you will be.

steelbtexan
02-11-2009, 12:29 PM
I think if E. Brown & Orakpo are off the board we should take Johnson.

He is the only DE that plays the LDE. The other DE's are RDE's that will have to change sides. RDE is the glamour position they get the sacks. The LDE does the dirty work.

People who question Johnsons motor should know that his motor was running to fast & his coaches told him to slow down @ the begining of games because they needed him to be able to rush the passer in the 4th quarter.

Johnson has great size @ 6'7 260 lbs. & runs a 4.65 40. He needs to add 20lbs of muscle but all of the other DE's need to add weight too. Maybe with a professional S&C coach his stamina will improve.

TTP talks about having an elite 1st step, Johnson has that. The games I saw him in he was great @ rushing the passer from the LDE spot which says smething because the RT got alot of help from the TE & RB chipping Johnson. Johnson put up stats as good as any DE in this draft playing LDE. He has problems holding the edge against the run because he lacks strength & technique. Both of these things can be taught through improved coaching. He also is fairly new to the position & has lots of room to grow.

Johnson is a Smithiak kind of player in that they draft intelligent player (Ga Tech) that have high upsides

bah007
02-11-2009, 12:31 PM
I think if E. Brown & Orakpo are off the board we should take Johnson.

He is the only DE that plays the LDE. The other DE's are RDE's that will have to change sides. RDE is the glamour position they get the sacks. The LDE does the dirty work.

People who question Johnsons motor should know that his motor was running to fast & his coaches told him to slow down @ the begining of games because they needed him to be able to rush the passer in the 4th quarter.

Johnson has great size @ 6'7 260 lbs. & runs a 4.65 40. He needs to add 20lbs of muscle but all of the other DE's need to add weight too. Maybe with a professional S&C coach his stamina will improve.

TTP talks about having an elite 1st step, Johnson has that. The games I saw him in he was great @ rushing the passer from the LDE spot which says smething because the RT got alot of help from the TE & RB chipping Johnson. Johnson put up stats as good as any DE in this draft playing LDE. He has problems holding the edge against the run because he lacks strength & technique. Both of these things can be taught through improved coaching. He also is fairly new to the position & has lots of room to grow.

Johnson is a Smithiak kind of player in that they draft intelligent player (Ga Tech) that have high upsides

Why would we put Johnson at LDE if we have Mario?

If Johnson doesn't have the stamina to go full out all game then that is another problem. Orakpo manages it.

Maddict5
02-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Highlight reel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzKWDGf5-Hc&feature=related)



looks pretty good on that reel but he has such a bad rap with his motor, i cant trust that. he looks talented though so i wouldnt be upset if we picked him @ 47 if orakpo, brown etc arent there at 15

WolverineFan
02-11-2009, 12:52 PM
Why would we put Johnson at LDE if we have Mario?

If Johnson doesn't have the stamina to go full out all game then that is another problem. Orakpo manages it.

Agreed. If Orakpo & Brown are both gone I say trade back and take a DB. It would be very exciting to leave the 1st round with either Moore, Delmas, or Smith AND extra picks.

TexansFan33
02-11-2009, 02:18 PM
I'm hoppin on the Michael Johnson bandwagon. 6-7 260 he's versatile and could rotate in at DE and maybe a little LB? :texflag:

El Tejano
02-11-2009, 02:25 PM
What school did he go to?

bah007
02-11-2009, 02:28 PM
What school did he go to?

Georgia Tech

Wolf6151
02-11-2009, 02:31 PM
What school did he go to?

Georgia Tech

Jackie Chiles
02-11-2009, 02:33 PM
This guy has Rudy G-a-y syndrome. Physical tools to burn but he disappears for stretches in games and hasn't played up to everyone's expectations. He has been improving though and had a better senior season than people are giving him credit for. 15 tackles for loss and 7 sacks is not terrible production not to mention making some eye-popping plays including taking an int to the house. Would I spend the 15th pick on him? No. But if we trade down and it looks like some of the other DEs such as Kruger or Ayers will not be around for our 2nd round pick I would have to think long and hard on drafting Johnson.

steelbtexan
02-11-2009, 03:16 PM
Why would we put Johnson at LDE if we have Mario?

If Johnson doesn't have the stamina to go full out all game then that is another problem. Orakpo manages it.

MW plays RDE, They move him around in passing situations.

I would take Orakpo over Johnson although Orakpo's propensity to get injured bothers me.

Very few DL go all out every play. That's why teams rotate D-lineman.

steelbtexan
02-11-2009, 03:18 PM
This guy has Rudy G-a-y syndrome. Physical tools to burn but he disappears for stretches in games and hasn't played up to everyone's expectations. He has been improving though and had a better senior season than people are giving him credit for. 15 tackles for loss and 7 sacks is not terrible production not to mention making some eye-popping plays including taking an int to the house. Would I spend the 15th pick on him? No. But if we trade down and it looks like some of the other DEs such as Kruger or Ayers will not be around for our 2nd round pick I would have to think long and hard on drafting Johnson.

I would take Gay over Battier

comparison

I would take Johnson over Krueger

bah007
02-11-2009, 03:31 PM
MW plays RDE, They move him around in passing situations.

I would take Orakpo over Johnson although Orakpo's propensity to get injured bothers me.

Very few DL go all out every play. That's why teams rotate D-lineman.

Just so we can get this clear:

If we drafted Johnson, you would be in favor of putting him at LDE in running situations and keeping Mario at RDE?

TexansSeminole
02-11-2009, 03:59 PM
If he is around by our second round pick than I would be happy with the pick, but taking him at 15 is a reach IMO because there are some work ethic risks involved. That seems to be the biggest risk when evaluating prospects, that and off the field problems.

I think he is intriguing in some ways but questionable in others. I do think that he can be good against the run so I think he could play either LDE or RDE if he works out. If we were to draft him and it worked out it would be nice to be able to move those guys around.

HOU-TEX
02-11-2009, 04:05 PM
If he is around by our second round pick than I would be happy with the pick, but taking him at 15 is a reach IMO because there are some work ethic risks involved. That seems to be the biggest risk when evaluating prospects, that and off the field problems.

I think he is intriguing in some ways but questionable in others. I do think that he can be good against the run so I think he could play either LDE or RDE if he works out. If we were to draft him and it worked out it would be nice to be able to move those guys around.

TexansSeminole, since you're obviously a Seminole fan, can you shed any light on this snippet? I guess he's projected to be an OLB now too?

Florida State DE Everette Brown reportedly played his final college game at only 225 pounds.

Brown is even less likely to stay at end than Aaron Maybin. Listed at 6'4/252 during his Seminole days, Brown is likely working feverishly to add weight. He remains a candidate to explode at the Combine in the forty and cone drills.

http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL

TexansSeminole
02-11-2009, 04:14 PM
TexansSeminole, since you're obviously a Seminole fan, can you shed any light on this snippet? I guess he's projected to be an OLB now too?



http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL

It would be hard to believe. When he was recruited out of high school he was listed at 235. This year he was listed at 254. He looks around 250 to me.

It doesn't seem logical because I have seem him throw down 300 lb lineman on numerous occasions and I doubt he did that at 225 lbs.

The combine will give us our measurables and this guy from a 49ers blog is probably 20 pounds off atleast. No way Brown could add 20 pounds in that time (since the bowl game against Wisconson in late December) and keep his quickness.

nero THE zero
02-11-2009, 04:21 PM
Being a Georgia Tech fan I've been on record as a big fan of Johnson. I don't think I'm qualified to break down technique, and I haven't watched film or keyed on him in every (or even an entire) game. But, I do think the knocks on Johnson are generally exagerated. He's got the athleticism and the ceiling of a top 10 pick. So, as long as the coaches think the desire is there, I'd definitely target him. Also, most aspects of his game are addressed here, but I think one of his most underrated abilities is his ability to be disruptive. If you watch his games, it seems like he gets at least one batted pass per game. And, those tips often turn into interceptions.

Depending on his status come draft day, I might rather trade back a few spots and grab him. But, I don't think it's unreasonable to take him in the first.

TexansSeminole
02-11-2009, 04:26 PM
Being a Georgia Tech fan I've been on record as a big fan of Johnson. I don't think I'm qualified to break down technique, and I haven't watched film or keyed on him in every (or even an entire) game. But, I do think the knocks on Johnson are generally exagerated. He's got the athleticism and the ceiling of a top 10 pick. So, as long as the coaches think the desire is there, I'd definitely target him. Also, most aspects of his game are addressed here, but I think one of his most underrated abilities is his ability to be disruptive. If you watch his games, it seems like he gets at least one batted pass per game. And, those tips often turn into interceptions.

Depending on his status come draft day, I might rather trade back a few spots and grab him. But, I don't think it's unreasonable to take him in the first.

I don't think it's unreasonable either, I just don't think it is a good idea @ 15. If we could move back to 27+, I would be ok with it.

nero THE zero
02-11-2009, 04:48 PM
I don't think it's unreasonable either, I just don't think it is a good idea @ 15. If we could move back to 27+, I would be ok with it.

Well, that's consensus now. Who's to say he's not a consensus mid-first pick come April though? And, if that's the case, it'd be acceptable to take him without moving back.

I'm just saying, I think it's silly to make definitive statements like, "No way I'd take Johnson with our pick at 15" so early in such a fluid situation such as the draft. And that's not aimed at you specifically but at draft fans in general.

bah007
02-11-2009, 04:52 PM
Well, that's consensus now. Who's to say he's not a consensus mid-first pick come April though? And, if that's the case, it'd be acceptable to take him without moving back.

I'm just saying, I think it's silly to make definitive statements like, "No way I'd take Johnson with our pick at 15" so early in such a fluid situation such as the draft. And that's not aimed at you specifically but at draft fans in general.

Their tune will change after they see him at the combine.

My stance with Johnson has been well documented:
Elite athlete
Questions about his effort and work ethic

If we interview him and the coaches come away from that thinking they can keep him motivated then do it. If not, pass.

steelbtexan
02-11-2009, 05:55 PM
Just so we can get this clear:

If we drafted Johnson, you would be in favor of putting him at LDE in running situations and keeping Mario at RDE?

Yes, I also like the flexability of our DE's being able play either side.

Johnson could rotate with Bulman depending on the situation.

We would have the two most atheletically gifted DE's in the league.

mussop
02-11-2009, 07:09 PM
Their tune will change after they see him at the combine.

If we interview him and the coaches come away from that thinking they can keep him motivated then do it. If not, pass.

Exactly! Everyone knows he has the physical talent to be a top ten pick. Only the coaches that interview him will know where his mind is at and if he is coachable. Even if we picked him at 15 I would be ok with it because that means our coaches seen someting in the interview that made him worthy of that high a pick. They have done a good job the last couple of years in evaluating talent so Im going to trust them.

Goldensilence
02-11-2009, 07:41 PM
Some of the knocks sound.....so very familiar.

Wolf6151
02-11-2009, 08:10 PM
Their tune will change after they see him at the combine.

My stance with Johnson has been well documented:
Elite athlete
Questions about his effort and work ethic

If we interview him and the coaches come away from that thinking they can keep him motivated then do it. If not, pass.

I agree completely, though I would add that after the combine bring him in for a personal workout and another interview. From what I hear our new D-line coach likes to yell alot and I think that's what Johnson will need, someone to stay in his a$$ and keep him motivated.

edo783
02-11-2009, 08:19 PM
Some of the knocks sound.....so very familiar.

Yup, same things were said about Mario. By the way, Mario has had his best games playing LDE nor RDE. A guy like this could work at LDE, especially if he can hold up on a run play.

rollinstone18
02-12-2009, 07:35 AM
Their tune will change after they see him at the combine.

My stance with Johnson has been well documented:
Elite athlete
Questions about his effort and work ethic

If we interview him and the coaches come away from that thinking they can keep him motivated then do it. If not, pass.

That's pretty much how I feel, too.

HOU-TEX
02-12-2009, 10:23 AM
Nevermind

El Tejano
02-12-2009, 12:15 PM
What about the DE from Texas Tech? I don't know his name or anything but everytime I saw him play, he was playing with the motor we need.

bah007
02-12-2009, 12:20 PM
What about the DE from Texas Tech? I don't know his name or anything but everytime I saw him play, he was playing with the motor we need.

Brandon Williams

TimeKiller
02-12-2009, 01:24 PM
Brandon Williams

I've tried a couple times to find some info on him and have come up empty...

Am I just missing it or what?

bah007
02-12-2009, 02:28 PM
I've tried a couple times to find some info on him and have come up empty...

Am I just missing it or what?

Not very many defensive scouts go to Texas Tech games...

I have him as my #11 DE. Probably a mid-fourth round pick.

He is a little light (243) but his frame can support more weight. If he adds some weight he could play RDE. Strength might be an issue until he bulks up, but he has the quickness and athleticism.

Tied for 4th in the nation in sacks with 13. Also had 15.5 TFL and 4 forced fumbles.

Goatcheese
02-12-2009, 02:58 PM
I think the closest NFL comparison for Michael Johnson is Jason Taylor when he came into the league. I think he will take a few years to get settled in, and will end up playing as a situational pass rusher for his first year or two.

His knocks are valid, but exagerated. I can see somebody taking him in the mid first, because he actually does have a pretty high floor, and his potential is as high as anyone not name Mario Williams.

8 Sacks, 2 assist sacks, 15 solo TFL, 5 assisted TFL, 28 tackles, 18 assists, 7 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 1 int, 1 int TD, 1 blocked kick.

His production isn't eye popping, but it is very solid. Alot of guys have put up worse, and gone higher.

Vs Orakpo, who everyone loves.

11 sacks, 1 assist sack, 16 solo TFL, 3 assisted TFL, 32 tackles, 8 assists, 2 passes defenses, 4 forced fumbles.

MJ got to the QB 10 times, and had 20 TFL, Orakpo got to the QB 12 times, and had 19 TFL.

Somebody is probably going to take MJ in the top 20, I'm just not sure if I really want it to be Houston. I wouldn't be unhappy with the pick, but I wouldn't be really excited either.

bah007
02-12-2009, 03:01 PM
I think the closest NFL comparison for Michael Johnson is Jason Taylor when he came into the league. I think he will take a few years to get settled in, and will end up playing as a situational pass rusher for his first year or two.

His knocks are valid, but exagerated. I can see somebody taking him in the mid first, because he actually does have a pretty high floor, and his potential is as high as anyone not name Mario Williams.

8 Sacks, 2 assist sacks, 15 solo TFL, 5 assisted TFL, 28 tackles, 18 assists, 7 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 1 int, 1 int TD, 1 blocked kick.

His production isn't eye popping, but it is very solid. Alot of guys have put up worse, and gone higher.

Vs Orakpo, who everyone loves.

11 sacks, 1 assist sack, 16 solo TFL, 3 assisted TFL, 32 tackles, 8 assists, 2 passes defenses, 4 forced fumbles.

MJ got to the QB 10 times, and had 20 TFL, Orakpo got to the QB 12 times, and had 19 TFL.

Somebody is probably going to take MJ in the top 20, I'm just not sure if I really want it to be Houston. I wouldn't be unhappy with the pick, but I wouldn't be really excited either.

Johnson also played 13 games to Orakpo's 11.

I don't know why you think MJ can only be a situational pass rusher. He isn't exactly strong against the run but he is solid enough to be a three down guy.

Goatcheese
02-12-2009, 11:40 PM
Johnson also played 13 games to Orakpo's 11.

I don't know why you think MJ can only be a situational pass rusher. He isn't exactly strong against the run but he is solid enough to be a three down guy.

I don't think he's ready to play every snap, and that's why he takes so many plays off. His size is not the issue. If he's only comming in 20-30 snaps a game, he can go 100% and be effective. If they try to have him play every down from the start I think you're going to see more of what he did in college. Not pursuing, giving up on plays, not making any effort to disengage from blocks, etc.

TimeKiller
02-13-2009, 08:02 AM
Not very many defensive scouts go to Texas Tech games...

I have him as my #11 DE. Probably a mid-fourth round pick.

He is a little light (243) but his frame can support more weight. If he adds some weight he could play RDE. Strength might be an issue until he bulks up, but he has the quickness and athleticism.

Tied for 4th in the nation in sacks with 13. Also had 15.5 TFL and 4 forced fumbles.

Sounds like we could do worse with a 4th....

bah007
02-13-2009, 11:09 AM
I don't think he's ready to play every snap, and that's why he takes so many plays off. His size is not the issue. If he's only comming in 20-30 snaps a game, he can go 100% and be effective. If they try to have him play every down from the start I think you're going to see more of what he did in college. Not pursuing, giving up on plays, not making any effort to disengage from blocks, etc.

Okay. I see where you're coming from now.

As I've said before though, I'm not comfortable with Johnson. What he should do is work on his stamina so he can play more snaps. I don't like the idea of using a 1st on a situational player.

Ole Miss Texan
02-13-2009, 12:03 PM
I feel that most of these DE's we're considering drafting aren't going to be able to be full time DEs right away, most will be the situational pass rushers. Michael Johnons, Everrette Brown, Aaron Maybin, etc.

WolverineFan
02-13-2009, 12:06 PM
Okay. I see where you're coming from now.

As I've said before though, I'm not comfortable with Johnson. What he should do is work on his stamina so he can play more snaps. I don't like the idea of using a 1st on a situational player.

Exactly. He could have all the measureables in the world, but if he rarely gets to see the field then what is the point of wasting a 1st round pick on him and paying out to him. If we took him at #15 we would have to give him some serious money. Not Mario money, but something that a situational player is just not worth. Take someone like Brown or Orakpo, someone who will see the field and be worth that money.

beerlover
02-13-2009, 12:58 PM
someone is going to get a discount on Michael Johnson just like Arizona did last draft taking Calais Campbell (proved a valueable/role player) 50th overall in 2nd rd. similar type DE both lack footspeed off edge but effective backside chasers. Michael is about 20 lbs. lighter flashing better quickness so could develop into a Gaines type DE while Campbell will probably be a Dockett type of 4-3 converted DT his natural position is a 3-4 DE.

so no I would not spend the Texans 1st rd. pick on MJ but I would spend a 2nd. if he like Campbell is still on the board. :cool:

The1ApplePie
02-13-2009, 05:19 PM
I'd take Johnson in the second round, not the first, too damn lazy for my blood

Amobi busting should steer us away from pure potential

I'd rather have a sure thing like Maulauga

bah007
02-13-2009, 05:28 PM
I'd take Johnson in the second round, not the first, too damn lazy for my blood

Amobi busting should steer us away from pure potential

I'd rather have a sure thing like Maulauga

It's a little early to call Amobi a bust, but he has been disappointing.

Maualuga isn't a sure thing. You don't know what you're getting with him. He is an athlete, he can hit, and he can tackle, but he didn't have very many responsibilities in USC's defense and I'm curious as to why that was.

Was it because he doesn't have a grasp on the mental part of the game or was it other reasons?

The only LB's that are a "sure thing" are Curry and Laurinaitis, IMO. Curry is a stud, but Laurinaitis has limited potential. But in both cases, you know what you are getting.

Insideop
02-13-2009, 05:28 PM
I feel that most of these DE's we're considering drafting aren't going to be able to be full time DEs right away, most will be the situational pass rushers. Michael Johnons, Everrette Brown, Aaron Maybin, etc.

This is why I'm hoping we can trade down and go for Kruger later in the 1st. I just think he would be a better fit for what we need. He's a little heavier than those you've mentioned and I haven't heard anything bad about his "motor" or "taking plays off." I don't think he's being considered as a "Tweener" (LB/DE) like some, but he's a little lighter than Tyson Jackson and Ayers and probably quicker than they are. I guess we'll find out more about him at the Combine, but for now, that's who I hope they go after. JMHO!

TexansFan33
02-14-2009, 05:50 PM
We are in a division where speed rushers are a MUST were not gonna have a chance at MJ b/c he will be gone before pick # 15 once he runs some insane 40 time. anything sub 4.7 and we wont touch him.

Blake
02-14-2009, 08:40 PM
We are in a division where speed rushers are a MUST were not gonna have a chance at MJ b/c he will be gone before pick # 15 once he runs some insane 40 time. anything sub 4.7 and we wont touch him.

I love when I see posts where people name a player and say they will be gone before we pick at 15. Ive seen posts on about 25 players who get that said about them.

Does everyone know we only have 14 teams picking in front of us?

Hottoddie
02-14-2009, 09:32 PM
I've been intrigued with MJ as well, but I've backed away from him a little bit. He's got all the skills you could dream of, but he's going to have to prove he wants it bad enough to play every down. I'd be perfectly happy if we took him, but I'm leaning towards trading down if Orakpo, Raji, Brown, Jenkins, or Curry are all gone. At that point I'd take Laurinaitis or Vontae Davis.

In the 2nd round, I'd take Conner Barwin out of Cinncinati as my DE. He's #5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u79CJdrxZbo

bah007
02-15-2009, 05:33 PM
I've been intrigued with MJ as well, but I've backed away from him a little bit. He's got all the skills you could dream of, but he's going to have to prove he wants it bad enough to play every down. I'd be perfectly happy if we took him, but I'm leaning towards trading down if Orakpo, Raji, Brown, Jenkins, or Curry are all gone. At that point I'd take Laurinaitis or Vontae Davis.

In the 2nd round, I'd take Conner Barwin out of Cinncinati as my DE. He's #5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u79CJdrxZbo

Funny that you mention Vontae Davis because he is in the same boat as MJ.

He was benched during his senior season for lack of effort. He has even more to prove than Johnson.