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JayCee
02-11-2009, 12:05 AM
How comfortable are you guys moving forward with Duane Brown?

I was browsing the forum on walterfootball.com, and came across a thread discussing the most disappointing rookies this season - Brown was mentioned along with his 11.5 sacks allowed.

http://www.walterfootball.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8027

While 11.5 sacks is high, I was surprised to see his name mentioned. He's obviously going to have to get his match fitness up, but when he was out there he looked solid. Most of the pressure normally came up the middle.

Pretty tough start to your rookie season playing the Steelers, Colts, Ravens & Vikings and their pretty good pass rushers.

wolf123
02-11-2009, 12:12 AM
Very!!

Carr Bombed
02-11-2009, 12:20 AM
I like Duane Brown alot and while some posters try to dog him out (youngtexanfan) he was probably our best run blocking Olineman on the field. On many of Slaton's biggest runs that he had Brown was 20 yards down field running stride for stride with LBs and throwing mulitple blocks. (the guy is special in the run game) The guy is athletic as hell and under Gibbs will turn into a good pass blocker. People need to keep in mind that he hasn't played the position that long and had the worst baptism by fire than any other rookie tackle in the draft (just look up our schedule and see the DEs/3-4 pass rushers that he faced this year). He has all the tools and will be a quality player.

I like Duane Brown alot and have no problem with him being our LT.

keyser
02-11-2009, 12:39 AM
I'm OK with Brown in that I think he'll be adequate and is young enough that we don't need to worry about finding a replacement in the short term. We can finally say that LT is not one of our highest priorities. I don't have much hope for him becoming a dominant LT, though, and if the opportunity came to get a significant upgrade (I think the top 4 LTs in this draft might all fit that description, but I don't expect any of them to be there at pick 15), I would go for it.

Carr Bombed
02-11-2009, 12:43 AM
Jason Peters (the guy Duane Brown is mostly compared to) didn't knock people's socks when he first came up either. Alex Gibbs is known for taking players like this and turning them into pro bowl type players. Also I don't understand why some people expected this guy to come in and dominate.....he's still learning the position, was one of the most athletic players in the draft, has all the tools, and will only get better under Gibbs.

I think we'll see a much better Duane Brown year 2 than we saw in year 1. (pass protection wise, because as far as run blocking he was great)

keyser
02-11-2009, 12:53 AM
Jason Peters (the guy Duane Brown is mostly compared to) didn't knock people's socks when he first came up either. Alex Gibbs is known for taking players like this and turning them into pro bowl type players. Also I don't understand why some people expected this guy to come in and dominate.....he's still learning the position, was one of the most athletic players in the draft, has all the tools, and will only get better under Gibbs.

I think we'll see a much better Duane Brown year 2 than we saw in year 1. (pass protection wise, because as far as run blocking he was great)

I don't know if this was referring to me, but I never expected Brown to dominate, especially this year. I felt like he was a bit of a reach when drafted, and I think he has performed about as I expected, so far - solid but not spectacular. He seems good enough (especially if he improves a bit, as I'd hope) that we can rely on him long-term, and I don't see a reason to actively look for a replacement. But, I also don't think he's going to become a star LT - as I said, I think there are probably 4 players in this year's draft who are better prospects.

Don't misunderstand - I would love to be wrong, and I hope he becomes an all-pro level LT.

steelbtexan
02-11-2009, 01:00 AM
I hope hop our new S&C coach helps Duane with his S&C.

I have high hopes for Brown with a full offseason of professional weight training and tutaledge under Gibbs.

Carr Bombed
02-11-2009, 01:04 AM
I don't know if this was referring to me, but I never expected Brown to dominate, especially this year. I felt like he was a bit of a reach when drafted, and I think he has performed about as I expected, so far - solid but not spectacular. He seems good enough (especially if he improves a bit, as I'd hope) that we can rely on him long-term, and I don't see a reason to actively look for a replacement. But, I also don't think he's going to become a star LT - as I said, I think there are probably 4 players in this year's draft who are better prospects.

Don't misunderstand - I would love to be wrong, and I hope he becomes an all-pro level LT.

My post wasn't directed at you, I just think this guy will eventaully turn into a excellent LT who's perfect for this system. I like Duane Brown alot and I'm also not one of those BPA guys. (A sin on here I know.....I feel if you have a hole, than fill it...we needed a LT and we filled it) If you look at our most successful drafts so far it was all about needs, not highest rated players...i.e. Mario Williams. Was Duane Brown the best available player....no, but I feel teams should draft to fill holes, Duane Brown was the right pick for the zone blocking scheme that Gibbs wanted to run and while there might be better prospects in this draft, that doesn't mean those prospects are better for this system. Duane Brown is a super athletic tackle (TE turned Olineman...classic zone blocking LT) who was physically built for this system....I can see why Gibbs was high on him. (with a rookie LT, we smashed all our previous running records) I think he's only going to get better in this system

Jackie Chiles
02-11-2009, 01:38 AM
I was underwhelmed with his pass protection but like so many have mentioned he really had a nasty list of pass rushers he had to deal with. Watch the pro bowl and those tackles are being schooled by the same pass rushers Duane had trouble with so its not the end of the world. I think his development next season will be one of the keys to the entire year and since there is so much room for improvement I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about him. The line protected better as a whole the 2nd half of the season and we probably return everyone.

nunusguy
02-11-2009, 07:16 AM
1560s John Harris gives Brown a C- for his rookie year and says he was more successful as a pass-blocker than a run-blocker ? While I respect Harris's opinion, I thought DB showed more promise/skill as a run-blocker ?

mussop
02-11-2009, 07:42 AM
1560s John Harris gives Brown a C- for his rookie year and says he was more successful as a pass-blocker than a run-blocker ? While I respect Harris's opinion, I thought DB showed more promise/skill as a run-blocker ?

I see it the same as you. There were times he looked lost in pass blocking.

TimeKiller
02-11-2009, 08:33 AM
I thought he was hell on wheels as a run blocker.

If anybody is going to lay the hammer down on the young man they should take a closer look at his ROOKIE year. Was given the job, kept it, performed fairly showing improvement over the weeks against tough, tough defenses and blitzers. The one thing anybody can say with no counterpoint is the conditioning thing but they set the difficulty level to All-Madden and turned him loose.

If the opportunity came to get another LT and put him inside at G I'd be willing. I don't think his passblocking is such that he's locked up the LT spot, I think it's just adequate.

Thorn
02-11-2009, 08:53 AM
Duane Brown has a bit to go as a fully fledged LT, but he is not nearly as big a concern as the multiple positions on the defense that need attention. I'm not worried at all about Duane Brown.

TimeKiller
02-11-2009, 09:25 AM
He's not even the biggest concern on the O'line...

b0ng
02-11-2009, 12:08 PM
I love him as a run blocker and I expect his pass pro to improve with practice.

I've noticed that a lot of the people who think he is horrible are self apponted "draft guru's". His choice screwed their mock up and a lot of times the credit won"t be given if it's deserved.

He gave up entirely too many sacks, however, his abilities in the run game were such positive boons that it'd be silly to discard him after 1 season.

Remember the days when olinemen weren't total busts if they didn't dominate from openening day of their rookie years?

Hervoyel
02-11-2009, 12:16 PM
How comfortable are you guys moving forward with Duane Brown?

I was browsing the forum on walterfootball.com, and came across a thread discussing the most disappointing rookies this season - Brown was mentioned along with his 11.5 sacks allowed.

http://www.walterfootball.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8027

While 11.5 sacks is high, I was surprised to see his name mentioned. He's obviously going to have to get his match fitness up, but when he was out there he looked solid. Most of the pressure normally came up the middle.

Pretty tough start to your rookie season playing the Steelers, Colts, Ravens & Vikings and their pretty good pass rushers.


I'm not certain of the exact numbers but I want to say that Chester Pitts allowed 12 sacks his rookie year. Then he cut it in half the following year. Seth Wand allowed something along those same lines his first year starting but then he never got a chance to come back the next year and improve on that performance. Rookie LT's do that (allow a lot of sacks) and they get better. I want to see what kind of improvement he makes.

WolverineFan
02-11-2009, 12:28 PM
Well he came in as a rookie and didn't suck so that's a good start. He actually played pretty well for a rookie LT and he was only a tackle for 2 years in college. He was a TE before that, so I'm excited to see how much he improves.

infantrycak
02-11-2009, 12:31 PM
I'm not certain of the exact numbers but I want to say that Chester Pitts allowed 12 sacks his rookie year. Then he cut it in half the following year.

15.5 sacks as a rookie--5.75 his 2nd year.

Hervoyel
02-11-2009, 12:34 PM
15.5 sacks as a rookie--5.75 his 2nd year.


See, even better improvement from Chester than I thought. I'm certain that Duane Brown will improve next year and I think it will be significant improvement. This season I think it was obvious that he was busting his butt and was being very hard on himself when he made mistakes. He appears to care which in my mind is half the battle. He doesn't seem to expect success to just "happen". I think if he can get another year (hopefully two) with Alex Gibbs in his helmet he'll be special.

infantrycak
02-11-2009, 12:43 PM
See, even better improvement from Chester than I thought. I'm certain that Duane Brown will improve next year and I think it will be significant improvement. This season I think it was obvious that he was busting his butt and was being very hard on himself when he made mistakes. He appears to care which in my mind is half the battle. He doesn't seem to expect success to just "happen". I think if he can get another year (hopefully two) with Alex Gibbs in his helmet he'll be special.

I think there is every reason to expect improvement. Winston needs to rebound as well. He had a bad pass protection year. I wonder if the guys were so focused on the run game they let their pass protection slip. Brown getting it down to 6-8 sacks and Winston back down to 3-4 with corresponding reduction in QB pressures allowed would be a very scary thing for opposing D's.

Goldensilence
02-11-2009, 12:47 PM
I'm pretty well content with him going here on out. Brown probably had the worst baptism by far of any of the Rookie Lt's this year and not only came out with his confidence intact but showed improvement as the year progressed. That says volumes in MY book.

He didn't come out of the gates like Joe Thomas and that's ok. I think we've got the right OL coach to help develop him into a solid pro and possibly down the line make a pro-bowl or two.

4Texans
02-11-2009, 01:26 PM
I'm Ok with Brown. He hasn't been playing tackle that long, and he was really in kind of a rotation with ES. I expect to see a big jump in his performance going into his second season.

barrett
02-11-2009, 02:07 PM
Another huge factor in his development is that Gibbs is returning for at least one more year. I don't think it's an issue at all that he was inconsistent. We should expect to see a big improvement in year two with Gibbs still steering the boat.

Go Texans.

Jackie Chiles
02-11-2009, 02:17 PM
15.5 sacks as a rookie--5.75 his 2nd year.

How do you give up 5.75 sacks? I know how players can give up half a sack etc. but taking it further than that seems odd. When Carr runs out of bounds behind the line they only count it as 3/4ths of a sack?

Anyway, those numbers are very promising because Duane and Chester both came in as raw LTs with physical ability. Duane has better LT tools to work with, gave up less sacks his rookie season, has a better line coach and running game and doesn't have to protect for Carr. Going to be fun to measure his progress next season.

Goatcheese
02-11-2009, 02:46 PM
I think LT is a big concern. Even if Brown improves as much as I expect him to, he will still be little better than a journeyman.

My current expectations for 2009 are that he will play every snap instead of splitting time, and give up roughly the same, or slightly fewer sacks.

I think his absolute ceiling at LT is Matt Lepsis, and he would be better off moving to guard.

Here's to hoping he proves me wrong.

YoungTexanFan
02-13-2009, 01:14 PM
In no way have I read any of the posts in this thread or have I read the linked article. Just wanted to preface that.

With that said, regardless if he cuts his sacks down next year (how could he not?) that doesn't mean he will suddenly be a good pick. For what he brought to the table, he was a bad pick. I trust Alex Gibbs to develop him, and I have the hope that Brown will eventually develop into a good player. I have no problem with Duane Brown being a Houston Texan, or a LT. My problem stems from him being "our" LT. He should not have been a starter, simply based on talent, physical maturity, experience at his position, and conditioning. Duane Brown is the LT you hope to land in the middle of the second or third round. The guy who rides the bench for a season or two and develops. The Duane Brown pick will always be a poor pick IMO.

Polo
02-13-2009, 01:17 PM
That's an awful outlook....

Not sure how he will always be a terrible pick if he turns into a good player that we can depend on...

beerlover
02-13-2009, 01:25 PM
In no way have I read any of the posts in this thread or have I read the linked article. Just wanted to preface that.

With that said, regardless if he cuts his sacks down next year (how could he not?) that doesn't mean he will suddenly be a good pick. For what he brought to the table, he was a bad pick. I trust Alex Gibbs to develop him, and I have the hope that Brown will eventually develop into a good player. I have no problem with Duane Brown being a Houston Texan, or a LT. My problem stems from him being "our" LT. He should not have been a starter, simply based on talent, physical maturity, experience at his position, and conditioning. Duane Brown is the LT you hope to land in the middle of the second or third round. The guy who rides the bench for a season or two and develops. The Duane Brown pick will always be a poor pick IMO.

them's strong words ytf. did Duane Brown play for Missouri or something?

I hope your sadly mistaken. Duane has the tools to be a very good OT his best attribute I see so far is his attitude. At least to me he possess the right mind set to play the position in the NFL & as he works himself into condition with excellent coaching possibly even an elite OT. :tiphat:

dalemurphy
02-13-2009, 01:45 PM
I think LT is a big concern. Even if Brown improves as much as I expect him to, he will still be little better than a journeyman.

My current expectations for 2009 are that he will play every snap instead of splitting time, and give up roughly the same, or slightly fewer sacks.

I think his absolute ceiling at LT is Matt Lepsis, and he would be better off moving to guard.

Here's to hoping he proves me wrong.

Man, I just don't see that at all. First of all, I thought he was pretty clearly better than Salaam last year. So, if Salaam is a journeyman, then he's already better than a journeyman. We did very little last season in sliding protection towards him which indicates confidence in him. And, I thought he won a lot more battles than he lost. IMO, he had bad games against Harrison, JAllen, Porter, Freeney (at Indy)... other than that, he was good. For a rookie with as little experience as he had at tackle in college, how could he not struggle against those guys. After all, probowl tackles struggled against them. Also, I thought he looked extremely athletic and was excellent run blocking on the second level and on the backside.

ALso, I'd rather have him right now protecting Schaub than guys like: Flozell Adams, John Runyan, Orlando Pace, Jake Long, Willie Anderson, Max Starx, and many others. Those are all guys considered to be plus LTs who clearly lack the athleticism to block elite rushers one on one. Granted Brown struggled to do it but only because of a lack of experience not because he lacked the strength or quickness. Since he's also said to be very coachable and a hard worker with no injury history, I think he has the potential to be great! Another thing to note is that he committed very few penalties last season. So, while the sack number was high, is overall number of negatives was not very high- basically, he hasn't learned to hold yet.

dalemurphy
02-13-2009, 01:51 PM
them's strong words ytf. did Duane Brown play for Missouri or something?

I hope your sadly mistaken. Duane has the tools to be a very good OT his best attribute I see so far is his attitude. At least to me he possess the right mind set to play the position in the NFL & as he works himself into condition with excellent coaching possibly even an elite OT. :tiphat:

I agree. He's an elite athlete. He's smart. He's very coachable. He's determined. He's accountable. He has no injury history or limitations. And, even the harshest critic would have to say we was servicable this season. Why everyone isn't enthusiastic about him going forward, I just don't understand.... Well, actually I do. I think it says a lot about the mental and emotional state of this fanbase.

b0ng
02-13-2009, 01:58 PM
Some people will not be able to get over the fact that he was picked in the late first round, and not where he was graded (2nd to 3rd round). Saying a player is going to be a poor pick no matter what he does is Kiperish at best. (He wouldn't have been available in the second round anyway)

dalemurphy
02-13-2009, 02:02 PM
Some people will not be able to get over the fact that he was picked in the late first round, and not where he was graded (2nd to 3rd round). Saying a player is going to be a poor pick no matter what he does is Kiperish at best. (He wouldn't have been available in the second round anyway)

I hope you're wrong. I like to think that people are intelligent enough to understand that the evaluation of his performance is entirely separate from evaluating the decision-making of the organization 6 months earlier.

HOU-TEX
02-13-2009, 02:26 PM
In no way have I read any of the posts in this thread or have I read the linked article. Just wanted to preface that.

With that said, regardless if he cuts his sacks down next year (how could he not?) that doesn't mean he will suddenly be a good pick. For what he brought to the table, he was a bad pick. I trust Alex Gibbs to develop him, and I have the hope that Brown will eventually develop into a good player. I have no problem with Duane Brown being a Houston Texan, or a LT. My problem stems from him being "our" LT. He should not have been a starter, simply based on talent, physical maturity, experience at his position, and conditioning. Duane Brown is the LT you hope to land in the middle of the second or third round. The guy who rides the bench for a season or two and develops. The Duane Brown pick will always be a poor pick IMO.

And the starter should've been.....? Salaam is not any better than what Brown was this season. I don't think Salaam would've been able to go a full season as the starter. Plus, he had surgery to begin Camp and he wasn't ready to play at the time the season started.

Butler? I like Butler, but as our swing T.

dalemurphy
02-13-2009, 02:41 PM
And the starter should've been.....? Salaam is not any better than what Brown was this season. I don't think Salaam would've been able to go a full season as the starter. Plus, he had surgery to begin Camp and he wasn't ready to play at the time the season started.

Butler? I like Butler, but as our swing T.

I like Butler too. I would argue he may have been better than Brown this season. But, that certainly isn't a given. And, given that Brown's upside is so high, leaving him on the bench only delays his opportunity to become a great player. It's silly to have a philosophy that you always play the better player at that moment. When you're a young and developing team, sometimes it's wise to give experience to those players you think will help you win a championship, even if it means that an extra sack by James Harrison could come of it.

infantrycak
02-13-2009, 02:42 PM
I hope you're wrong. I like to think that people are intelligent enough to understand that the evaluation of his performance is entirely separate from evaluating the decision-making of the organization 6 months earlier.

You have to separate out those suffering from crystal ball draft syndrome who commonly suffer from a delusional belief they can see little price tags on each draft prospect which identifies their "real" value.

WolverineFan
02-13-2009, 03:24 PM
You have to separate out those suffering from crystal ball draft syndrome who commonly suffer from a delusional belief they can see little price tags on each draft prospect which identifies their "real" value.

Exactly. I'll listen to Kubiak & Co. before I listen to Kiper and his little sidekick/wannabe McShay. I don't care what their "grade" is, if we think he's good at #26 then we'll take him at #26. I recall Kiper was pretty high on a guy named Ryan Leaf a few years ago. We all know how that went.

nunusguy
02-13-2009, 03:45 PM
My problem stems from him being "our" LT. He should not have been a starter, simply based on talent, physical maturity, experience at his position, and conditioning. Duane Brown is the LT you hope to land in the middle of the second or third round. The guy who rides the bench for a season or two and develops.
John Harris, 1560 NFL Draft analyst, says he gave Brown a "C-" for his rookie year and that's probably not any worse than other rookie OTs drafted even higher than him. Ideally we would have had a veteran who was a superior player playing ahead of him and mentoring him for a year or 2, but our vet LT Salaam just wasn't a better player even though he was helpful to his rookie year development. But it was a rough year for Brown, really brutally rough at times (Matt Schaub can definitely confirm that), and hopfully its easier sledding for him and his QB in coming years.

JayCee
02-13-2009, 04:16 PM
these guys seem to like him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jpb-YkYO1I

Insideop
02-13-2009, 04:54 PM
1560s John Harris gives Brown a C- for his rookie year and says he was more successful as a pass-blocker than a run-blocker ? While I respect Harris's opinion, I thought DB showed more promise/skill as a run-blocker ?

I heard this too on 1560's the Draft Show with LZ, and thought the same thing as you. They were saying this, I think, based on most of Slaton's big runs coming over the right side with Brisiel and Winston. Now I'm not sure if they looked at his whole season, but to me (an untrained eye), I could see Brown was getting eaten alive in the 1st half of the season in pass protection, and that's where he probably gave up most of his 11.5 sacks. But, 11.5 sacks is tied for the most given up by a LT in the NFL last season.

I don't have any stats for his run blocking but I do remember some nice runs and screens by Slaton over the left side. If I recall I think Steve's last TD this season came on the left side between Pitts and Brown in the Chicago game. Either way, I think by the end of the season, Brown was playing much better in both run and pass protection and I think he will very good in the coming years. JMHO!

76Texan
02-13-2009, 05:21 PM
Also, remember that he play RT his Junior year.
And I'm saying that in his Junior year, and he already performed better than Brandon Frye.
The guys he faced as both RT and LT, several are now playing in the NFL, or will be playing in the NFL in the upcoming years.

He will do fine, in my opinion.
How much can he improve? Who knows?
But it seems like all the coaches have been saying that he has good work ethics.

With a young line such like ours, how little time they've been together, and where our offense rate among all the NFL teams, rankling on Duane Brown is pure silly. I'm sorry, but that is MHO.

Goatcheese
02-14-2009, 02:44 AM
Man, I just don't see that at all. First of all, I thought he was pretty clearly better than Salaam last year. So, if Salaam is a journeyman, then he's already better than a journeyman. We did very little last season in sliding protection towards him which indicates confidence in him. And, I thought he won a lot more battles than he lost. IMO, he had bad games against Harrison, JAllen, Porter, Freeney (at Indy)... other than that, he was good. For a rookie with as little experience as he had at tackle in college, how could he not struggle against those guys. After all, probowl tackles struggled against them. Also, I thought he looked extremely athletic and was excellent run blocking on the second level and on the backside.

ALso, I'd rather have him right now protecting Schaub than guys like: Flozell Adams, John Runyan, Orlando Pace, Jake Long, Willie Anderson, Max Starx, and many others. Those are all guys considered to be plus LTs who clearly lack the athleticism to block elite rushers one on one. Granted Brown struggled to do it but only because of a lack of experience not because he lacked the strength or quickness. Since he's also said to be very coachable and a hard worker with no injury history, I think he has the potential to be great! Another thing to note is that he committed very few penalties last season. So, while the sack number was high, is overall number of negatives was not very high- basically, he hasn't learned to hold yet.

Salaam fell off this season, and isn't very good anymore. Most of the other guys you listed have a combined age of over 9000, and are either over the hill, or rolling down it. Jake Long was solid this year. All of the tackles taken in the first round except C.Williams, and D.Brown performed very well in their rookie campaigns.

I give Brown props for his run blocking at the second level. He is much better than advertised. He did look decent at times in pass protection, but you're supposed to win 99% of your battles at LT. I actually thought Brown looked best at the beggining of the season with mostly solid play, and just a few bad plays that stood out. Later in the season his sack numbers might have gone down, but he was getting beaten more. Schaub just understood that he didn't have reliable blind side protection and got the ball out quicker. If he had to play full time instead of getting spelled, i think he would have given up close to 20 sacks, and alot more holds from tiring out.

I also wasn't all that impressed with Brown's athleticism to be honest. He looks good running in a straight line, but for a smallish guy, who was drafted almost completely on athletic potential he really doesn't seem all that quick, and agile. He also looks kind of soft, and needs to lay off the twinkies.

I still think he can be a good-very good player if he works hard. Like I said, I see his max potential being Matt Lepsis level. I hope that he developes to be a good player, and proves me wrong. It just doesn't seem likely. I'd still prefer they move him inside, and draft a LT with actual Elite potential, or sign Jordan Gross away from Carolina.

I think some people get caught up in where he was drafted, and either root for him to suceed, or fail base on that. IMO where he was drafted stops mattering the second the guy signs on the dotted line. He's just a guy on the roster, with a contract he needs to live up to. If Brown were a 6th round pick, I doubt most people would be so supportive, but since we spent a 1st round pick on him people feel more invested in his success. For examples of this unbalanced support/complaining about players see Babin, and Faggins. People didn't like that we traded so much to get Babin, and turned on him as soon as he didn't explode onto the scene(Even though, IMO, he had a pretty decent rookie campaign, and was hurt the first half of his second year). On the flip side, since Faggins wasn't a high round pick, people judge him based on his performance on the field. They don't have the big emotional investment in his success that they do with D-Rob, or D.Brown.

TimeKiller
02-15-2009, 01:08 PM
I think some people get caught up in where he was drafted, and either root for him to suceed, or fail base on that. IMO where he was drafted stops mattering the second the guy signs on the dotted line. He's just a guy on the roster, with a contract he needs to live up to. If Brown were a 6th round pick, I doubt most people would be so supportive, but since we spent a 1st round pick on him people feel more invested in his success. For examples of this unbalanced support/complaining about players see Babin, and Faggins. People didn't like that we traded so much to get Babin, and turned on him as soon as he didn't explode onto the scene(Even though, IMO, he had a pretty decent rookie campaign, and was hurt the first half of his second year). On the flip side, since Faggins wasn't a high round pick, people judge him based on his performance on the field. They don't have the big emotional investment in his success that they do with D-Rob, or D.Brown.

So if Mario busted, and Alex Brink busted...it's the same?

I don't think it's out of line to expect more from higher profile players/picks. I do, however, expect people to weigh all considerations before saying something like, "the Duane Brown pick will always be a poor pick". So poor that he filled a dire need of a selective system adequately with a great chance to improve. People acting like he still would've been around in the 2nd or 3rd round need to wake up. Did he set the world on fire? No. Does he at least have gas in one hand and matches in the other? Yes.

YoungTexanFan
02-15-2009, 02:18 PM
And the starter should've been.....? Salaam is not any better than what Brown was this season. I don't think Salaam would've been able to go a full season as the starter. Plus, he had surgery to begin Camp and he wasn't ready to play at the time the season started.

Butler? I like Butler, but as our swing T.

Duane Brown was like Seth Wand. Same talent, and both had good enough potential. I'm not just down on him; as another poster said, he is now just another player on our roster. As I said earlier, I trust Alex Gibbs to develop him enough to be a quality player, but that Duane Brown was not ready to be an NFL LT. He proved that on the field. It's not to say that he can't be down the road, but that isn't the player you take in the first round. That is the player you take where we took Seth Wand. I expect about the same development from Brown, but more patience to be given to Brown because of the money multiplier.

b0ng
02-15-2009, 02:31 PM
Duane Brown was like Seth Wand. Same talent, and both had good enough potential. I'm not just down on him; as another poster said, he is now just another player on our roster. As I said earlier, I trust Alex Gibbs to develop him enough to be a quality player, but that Duane Brown was not ready to be an NFL LT. He proved that on the field. It's not to say that he can't be down the road, but that isn't the player you take in the first round. That is the player you take where we took Seth Wand. I expect about the same development from Brown, but more patience to be given to Brown because of the money multiplier.

So what you're saying is that if a player is drafted in the first round he must start immediately (and be good) or that is a bad pick?

Goldensilence
02-15-2009, 02:37 PM
We were in between a rock and hard place after last year at LT. Not much via FA and While Salaam did perform better then one could've really hoped for last year I don't know how many people expected a repeat. The Jared Allen trade screwed us multiple ways. If Minnesota makes that first round pick I can guarantee it wouldn't have been Brandon Albert.

I don't know if anyone would've been okay trading up for one of the elite LTs. Not me. Could've reached and took Sam Baker but I have a feeling the moans and groans would've been louder here. Gosder and Otah didn't have the feet for ZBS. The question that comes up between the board and most likely Rick Smith and Co is did you trust any of the other prospects further down to be able to man up come start of the season? If the answer is no then I pretty much have to agree with the move Rick made in pulling the trigger on Brown.

dalemurphy
02-15-2009, 02:38 PM
Duane Brown was like Seth Wand. Same talent, and both had good enough potential. I'm not just down on him; as another poster said, he is now just another player on our roster. As I said earlier, I trust Alex Gibbs to develop him enough to be a quality player, but that Duane Brown was not ready to be an NFL LT. He proved that on the field. It's not to say that he can't be down the road, but that isn't the player you take in the first round. That is the player you take where we took Seth Wand. I expect about the same development from Brown, but more patience to be given to Brown because of the money multiplier.

Well, here's a list of 26th picks since 2000. Why don't you tell us what kind of player should be picked at this spot?:

Anthony Spencer
John McCargo
Chris Spencer
Chris Perry
Kwame Harris
Lito Sheppard
Jamar FLetcher
Erik Flowers