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Ole Miss Texan
02-06-2009, 12:12 PM
I put this in the NFL draft section b/c I think it relates to our draft just as much as the Team or NFL sections.

It looks like the Denver Broncos will be switching to a 3-4 base but they NEED to get a 3-4 End and a 3-4 NT. They'll most likely be running a hybrid kind of system until then with the 4-3 still fairly prevalent.

Enter Elvis Dumervil. Rumblings in Denver are that he is and will not be a good fit as a 3-4 DE or a 3-4 LB. Their fans don't even view him as a full time 4-3 End but more of a situational 4-3 pass rusher. In the past this is when he's had his success, last year he moved to pretty much full time DE and his effectiveness may have seen a decline.

Does Denver keep him as a situational pass rusher when they run 4-3 fronts? Or do the trade him now for a draft pick so they can build their defense?

I'm aware we don't have any (front office) ties to Denver anymore but I think Dumervil could be a great fit for what we want to do. What would we be willing to give up for him / give up for at worst a situational pass rusher? If we can get him, that REALLY frees up our draft to take BPA and focus on other needs.

I've seen Denver fans wanting a 4th rd pick and a player, maybe a mid-3rd to early 4th rd pick. Maybe we could give them like a 4th round pick and Anthony Weaver (3-4 DE)???

What round pick is too early to give up for a situational pass rusher, if that's all he is. Say we'd have to give up a 3rd round pick. Would we find a player there (Safety, DE, etc) that would make more impact to our team? I'm not sure we would.

Elvis Dumervil, bring him to Houston Smith!!!!

beerlover
02-06-2009, 12:31 PM
we need > not < + no longer ties to Broncos, thank you. they would want at least a 2nd. not sure about this whole NFL taking away 4th rd. thing? personally I feel the Texans should be asking for more compensation than those sorry draft picks in the worst draft ever (2002) :bat:

WolverineFan
02-06-2009, 12:33 PM
Nobody is going to take Weaver. I would rather just get a 4th round only than get a 4th round & Weaver. He brings way to much salary and not that much production. We all just have to face the music and deal with the fact that we are stuck with Weaver until his deal runs out because nobody wants him.

As for Dumervil. I believe he was drafted in the 2nd round, not sure though. I see Denver asking for a 3rd round pick for him and if he would only be a situational pass rusher then I think that is a little too much to give up. If he could add some bulk and become our bookend across Mario then I say go for it, but I don't know if he could be that guy for us.

Ole Miss Texan
02-06-2009, 12:54 PM
I understand the concern about Weaver but from the Broncos standpoint... he is a NEED. I don't know if they currently have a sure fire 3-4 DE on their roster and definitely not a 3-4 NT. I would view Weaver as one of those stop-gap kind of players while they groom a young guy. As for his contract, completely agree. It may be more than they are willing to pay. Wouldn't it go against our CAP though if we trade him? They would just pay the cash? Anywho, if we flat out release Weaver they could sign him to a lower contract but run the risk of another team picking him up. Again I stress Denver NEEDS 3-4 front 7 players.

Dumervil was drafted in the 4th round during 2006 (#126 overall). Age is 25.

For a 3rd rounder being too much for a situation pass rusher, that could be very true. I'm not sure my feeling on the value but I kind of think of what we've picked. Molden was a developmental guy and played STs, Slaton obviously awesome but could have been thought of as more of a 3rd down back at first, Jacoby Jones- developmental guy and plays STs. So this staff may think Dumervil may get just as many snaps as other 3rd round picks + he may be more valuable than what they see on their board.

2006: 8.5 sacks in 13 games (0 started)
2007: 12.5 sacks in 16 games (16 started)
2008: 5.0 sacks in 16 games (15 started)- I think this was his first as "full time" DE.

Ole Miss Texan
02-06-2009, 01:04 PM
View it like this:
1st round: LB Cushing, CB Davis, trade down?
2nd round: DB like Sean Smith, Moore, etc.
3rd round: DE Ayers or Shaunessy

I see Ayers maybe having more potential as a full time 4-3 end but at this point would y'all rather have Ayers/Shaunessy which will most likely start out playing part time w/ potential to develop into a full time starter or would yall rather Dumervil who would be more effective immediately and still might have some potential to play more than situationally???

eh!? I'm not saying we give up a 3rd but just comparing what we "might" be able to pick there and what we have selected in the 3rd round...

bah007
02-06-2009, 01:13 PM
Weaver is more suited to a 34 defense than a 43, but that doesn't mean anyone will take him. He's never really done anything special.

If we could convince Denver that he is sturdy enough against the run for their 34 defense then I would be all for trading him. It's not like anyone on their team can stop the run anyway.

Let's not get our hopes up though.

Ole Miss Texan
02-06-2009, 01:27 PM
Weaver is more suited to a 34 defense than a 43, but that doesn't mean anyone will take him. He's never really done anything special.

If we could convince Denver that he is sturdy enough against the run for their 34 defense then I would be all for trading him. It's not like anyone on their team can stop the run anyway.

Let's not get our hopes up though.

Agreed. It's not like this is a high probability deal. I just wanted to get a perspective from Texans fans as to how much they'd be willing to give up for someone like Dumervil. Of if we draft a DE (which we would), what round are we looking at. Maybin seems like he's going to be a pass rush specialist... not an everydown 4-3 end. But some of us like him in the 1st.

Dumervil is making next to nothing and I think becomes a free agent sometime soon. I think Denver would be wise to go ahead and keep him until his contract expires. I don't see moving him as a high priority but a possibility. In our case a pass rusher is a need.

krocket
02-06-2009, 03:22 PM
.... If he could add some bulk and become our bookend across Mario then I say go for it, but I don't know if he could be that guy for us.I am sorry, but Elvis Dumervil is 5'11" - 260 lbs. I believe bulking up is out of the question or he will have to roll after the QB.

Goldensilence
02-06-2009, 04:00 PM
Much as it sucks to say this we are stuck with Weaver's contract until we cut him or it ends. If he was even moderately successful and effective this trade MIGHT be possible OMT unfortunately what would really handicap it is Weaver's salary.

I do like the idea of Dumerville coming here though and I wouldn't mind giving up a fourth unless we are targetting someone in the first three rounds that we feel is going to come in and make a bigger impact possibly(especially in the first two). It might free up a spot allowing us to take another position.

badboy
02-06-2009, 05:02 PM
I like your thought process OMT, but gonna stick with my draft picks. Ayers is the DE I'm focusing on and could see a pick up of Peppers as being possible if $ was right. Here's my question to you. Can Ayers be a WILL linebacker? If we got Peppers or say Shaunessy in trade down, if Ayers could shed a few lbs, he is pretty quick at 273lbs.
How about Peppers at DE, Raji @ 15, Ayers in round 2 for ILB. Rashad Johnson FS in round 3 and Gartrell Johnson in 4th? Solves the DE across from Mario, stops the run (Raji and Ayers)+ gives a good back up DE in Ayers, takes care of FS and you have your red zone threat.