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hou059
01-12-2005, 09:16 AM
I have seen two mock draft's this morning having the Texans draft Dan Cody with the 13th pick. What gives...did this guy do something between now and the BCS Championship game to boost his stock. From what I know he is a big kid with a huge motor but is a little light too play line in the 3-4. NFLdraftshowcase.com has him listed at 6-5 260lbs. What gives yall?

El Tejano
01-12-2005, 09:25 AM
I think that has to strictly do with the fact none of the other teams ahead of us need him. I wouldn't be to mad with that pick though because I am sure that guy will grow even more once he gets here.

hou059
01-12-2005, 09:42 AM
But to play DE in a 3-4...we're talking big...295lbs+ and to ask someone to put on that much weight is insane...I don't like the idea. i feel that we could do better than Dan Cody at the 13th pick. Maybe trade down and select, that makes more sense but I don't the like the Texans taking him in the first round period.

astrofan
01-12-2005, 10:48 AM
I think that he would play ROLB for the Texans not end

hou059
01-12-2005, 10:52 AM
that's what I was thinking but would you pick him up at #13 to play OLB? I mean that would be a mistake imo.

aj.
01-12-2005, 11:59 AM
Do you mean Shaun Cody (USC)?? Everything I've seen has Shaun going in the top half of the first round - or at least top 20. Dan Cody (OU) is a lower 1st rounder or maybe even high second depending on how everything goes. Both play DE. Shaun also played DT in college - he's 285-290 lbs. Dan Cody is about 265.

hou059
01-12-2005, 12:33 PM
Noooooo AJ it was Dan Cody going to the Texans on two Mock Drafts I read this morning. Yeah Shaun Cody (USC) makes more sense but Dan Cody(OU) just wouldn't fit in our 3-4 scheme...maybe as a OLB but we great talent there already. Maybe the site made a typo and meant Shaun Cody, I dunno but no way we take Dan Cody!

aj.
01-12-2005, 12:34 PM
Well for what it's worth then, I think 13 is waaayyyyy too high for Dan.

ArlingtonTexan
01-12-2005, 12:36 PM
Well for what it's worth then, I think 13 is waaayyyyy too high for Dan.

honestly, it is probably too high for Shaun Cody also.

Blake
01-12-2005, 12:37 PM
Well for what it's worth then, I think 13 is waaayyyyy too high for Dan.

Exactly. There is no way on gods green earth, that he is selected here. He is a fine player, but he is not worth a #13. Plus he is not the right size for a DE 3-4. And we dont need another converted DE for OLB.

We NEED, a DT, OT, CB, WR.

hou059
01-12-2005, 12:41 PM
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. 13 is way to high for either. Just wanted to run that by yall and see what yall thought. Maybe Dan was higher on the Texans list than I thought. Maybe yall knew something I didn't.

beerlover
01-12-2005, 12:47 PM
I have seen two mock draft's this morning having the Texans draft Dan Cody with the 13th pick. What gives...did this guy do something between now and the BCS Championship game to boost his stock. From what I know he is a big kid with a huge motor but is a little light too play line in the 3-4. NFLdraftshowcase.com has him listed at 6-5 260lbs. What gives yall?

curious what two recent mocks are you refeering to :hmmm:

Vinny
01-12-2005, 12:51 PM
And we dont need another converted DE for OLB. Get ready to draft one just about every year. I checked the Pittsburgh draft history and in virtually every year they pick a DE to convert in one round or another. All of our outside linebackers are going to be converted DE's in our scheme.

astrofan
01-12-2005, 12:51 PM
draftking for one

hou059
01-12-2005, 12:56 PM
curious what two recent mocks are you refeering to :hmmm:


http://www.draftseason.com/mockdraft.htm
here is one link

astrofan
01-12-2005, 12:58 PM
I like the mock from draftshowcase (http://www.draftshowcase.com/swmock05.htm)
be warned that is a week old, but they have a pretty good website

aj.
01-12-2005, 04:56 PM
I think they will continue to look for guys in the Peek, Anderson, Raheem Orr mold in the mid rounds. They probably won't draft conversion projects as high as Babin every year.

ArlingtonTexan
01-12-2005, 05:51 PM
Get ready to draft one just about every year. I checked the Pittsburgh draft history and in virtually every year they pick a DE to convert in one round or another. All of our outside linebackers are going to be converted DE's in our scheme.

The Steelers also tend to draft at one OLman and one DLman every year. Not counting compensatory picks and any trades that means they commit 3 out 7 picks to their core philosophy of a 3-4 defense and power running game. if needs influence picks this year, (remember Casserly claims BPA) then OL and DL will be drafted this year by the Texans.

Note on the converted DEs normally even if they never pan out as OLB they often are very good special teams players so the picks are not wasted.

Also, for all of those who are contending that we have resolved the OLB situation, we have plenty of bodies but none have proven they are NFL level pass rushers, and have zero issue with Texans addressing this position at any point in the draft until there is guy who get at 8-10 sacks playing that spot.

Blake
01-12-2005, 06:03 PM
Get ready to draft one just about every year. I checked the Pittsburgh draft history and in virtually every year they pick a DE to convert in one round or another. All of our outside linebackers are going to be converted DE's in our scheme.


You are right. But more specifically I meant not in the first round. I dont mind getting one in round 3-4 or somewhere around there.

HJam72
01-12-2005, 06:17 PM
Also, for all of those who are contending that we have resolved the OLB situation, we have plenty of bodies but none have proven they are NFL level pass rushers, and have zero issue with Texans addressing this position at any point in the draft until there is guy who get at 8-10 sacks playing that spot.

I think Peek has proven to be an NFL caliber pass rusher. I know he's young and probably lacks in other areas, but I just wanted to point that out.

Vinny
01-12-2005, 07:16 PM
I think Peek has proven to be an NFL caliber pass rusher. I know he's young and probably lacks in other areas, but I just wanted to point that out.Peek still has 3 career sacks in 2 years and gets into a fight after every play. I'm not as sure he is as proven as some do here.

aj.
01-12-2005, 07:43 PM
Since he's the only Texans pass rusher who consistently draws double teams, I'd say he's arrived as a pass rusher. He hasn't arrived as a complete linebacker. And yes he's a knucklehead at times. Sack numbers aren't the be all end all for me. He's disruptive and causes the opponent to adjust to him. If you like numbers, Peek would probably have plenty of sacks if he was a full time OLB, but at this point there would probably be some level of sacrifice in run support or short pass defense. Hopefully he improves in those areas because he is an impact player who tends to fire up those around him.

Vinny
01-12-2005, 07:47 PM
Yeah, hard to argue the fact that he would be more productive if he saw the field more. I just saw someone bring up the fact that he was a rfa next year and the fact that he didn't have many sacks despite the fact that is all he does when he hits the field. I guess I sounded down on him but I just wish I knew what the coaches opinions were on him other than the fact that it was puzzling to most of us why he didn't see the field more.

nunusguy
01-12-2005, 07:56 PM
Many, many of the people who produce these mocks don't have the first
clue what the Texans are doing with their personnel. For example, the
past year we've had a huge shake-up in our defensive backfield by
drafting Dunta to play CB and moving M.Coleman to FS and giving him a
new contract. Then of course we've got a rookie playing strong safety
who looks like someone who will develope and be there for us in the future. Anyone who is only casually acquainted with the Texans D knows this. In spite of all of this, I see mocks having us take a safety with our first pick.
First off, many people have reservations about using as high a pick as the 13th on a safety, even someone as highly regarded of as a S.Taylor. But I think most who would know our situation at all would agree that we need to assign a much > priority to our LB & DL components of our D than the D backfield for this years draft.

astrofan
01-20-2005, 06:19 PM
good article (http://www.draftdaddy.com/prospects/danCody.cfm)

THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
01-20-2005, 10:32 PM
I don't think we need another converted DE to play OLB. I'm not even sure if we could play the position effectively like we want him to. I will say this though, he may be the most underated top prospect in this draft. I have seen mocks where this guy drops to 28...........No way he drops out of the Top 10. He will be one hellofa DE in the NFL, a guy who brings fire to a defense and who is a playmaker. Just not what we want.

Vinny
01-20-2005, 10:50 PM
I don't think we need another converted DE to play OLB. I'm not even sure if we could play the position effectively like we want him to. All 3-4 OLB's are converted DE's.

texansfan88
01-20-2005, 10:52 PM
Cody will not be the pick of the Houston Texans. Who exactly would you bench at that point? Babin? the surest tackler we have? Peek? Heck, he's not even starting yet. Wong? possibly, but then where does Peek start?

astrofan
01-21-2005, 12:19 PM
Peek is good at what he does, but I am afraid that if he played every down that he would lose some of his lethality from a combination of not so fresh legs and too much game film for the other team to gameplan against him.
As it stands now, opposing coaches must have to surmise that he just cannot be stopped. If you watch any NFL channel than surely you have noticed that we get a willie mcginest breakdown about once a week. Well for my money, Peek is much deadlier that w-mac.

besides DJ#11, Ronnie Brown, and Heath Miller, who could we draft at 13 that would come in and start from day one? (Grigsby doesn't count)

texansfan88: I respect your opinions and I am not arguing, just discussing

J-Man
01-21-2005, 01:59 PM
I just can't see us taking Dan Cody...several draft services have touted him as a candidate for 3-4 OLB but I don't see us taking a shot at him quite yet. I think if we had some other pieces on the defensive side of the ball in place we might take a shot at him but not right now.

The fact is that while Cody is a very good prospect he just doesn't scream "can't miss, future pro-bowl guy". We aren't hurting enough at OLB to snag him in the 1st round...if he is by some chance open in the 2nd then maybe but I think it's a moot point since he probably will be gone in the late 1st round.

AlexVanderpool
01-21-2005, 03:03 PM
You horn fans need to get over the fact that Cody is a sooner... what cody posesses is the havoc-inducing non-stop pass-rushing motor that we see in Peek and have yet to see in babin.

Though 13th is a bit high, id love to see dan cody in texan blue.

astrofan
01-21-2005, 03:13 PM
thank you mr vanderpool
I think university of austin fans should be required to identify themselves as such so we don't have to waste time trying to relate to them or understand their reasoning
moderators: please help

Blake
01-21-2005, 03:25 PM
You horn fans need to get over the fact that Cody is a sooner... what cody posesses is the havoc-inducing non-stop pass-rushing motor that we see in Peek and have yet to see in babin.

Though 13th is a bit high, id love to see dan cody in texan blue.

I have no problem drafting a sooner. Of course im pretty sure you arent talking about me.

But like you said #13 is a big time stretch for Dan. IMO he is worth a #18 selection. For a DE-OLB tweener.

astrofan
01-21-2005, 03:35 PM
I try not to get too caught up in measuring a prospect in terms a 13th vs 18th, and try to focus more on is this guy a first or second round value for the Texans (or third round vs. day II, usually)
survey sez: Dan Cody's worth a first

texansfan88
01-21-2005, 03:35 PM
I'm a horn fan, and I could care less if Cody is a senior at this point. In fact, I thought he'd be a top 10 pick after the OU game, I was excited knowing another big 12 guy would be in the 1st round.

The fact is, Cody is not worth another 1st round pick at this point. If your top 12 options are gone, and he's your 13th, then you take him. Otherwise, let him be.

I"ll answer more questions tonight, (gonna go try to get "lucky") haha later

Huge
01-21-2005, 06:17 PM
I don't think we need another converted DE to play OLB. I'm not even sure if we could play the position effectively like we want him to.
The 49ers would have been a lock of Matt Leinhart. He was the only clearcut #1, and the only QB worth the #1 pick. With Leinhart gone, its hard to say what the 49ers are going to do. It depends who the GM is going to be. I think they trade down with the Chargers.

The Chargers will get the #1 pick in exchange for both of their 1st round picks. The Chargers will then take Dan Cody at #1 and move him to OLB in their 3-4 defense. He will be a complimant to Donnie Edwards and a prominant pass rusher OPPOSITE of Foley who had a great year.

See where I'm going with this?

THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
01-23-2005, 05:01 PM
That was two different messages meaning different things. When I say he can't play the position effectively for us, I mean that we have Babin at one end, and Cody at the other. In Capers scheme one or both at a time will drop back in pass coverage from time to time. Do you want to see both Cody and Babin in pass coverage?

I think he would be a great pick for the Chargers. Okay, maybe not at #1, or maybe not in the top 5, or maybe not in the top 10, but anways I think he will be a great pick for THEM and not us. A great pick for you is determined by what you already have around you and how he will fit in with your team. Cody matches in for the Chargers. Cody, in my opinion, doesn't match for us.

J-Man
01-23-2005, 08:48 PM
Ok...let me retread my comments from my early post on this thread. I think Dan Cody is a very good college player and I happen to think he has the skills to be a pretty good 3-4 OLB in the NFL, actually reminds me of Babin to be honest.
Now that that's out of the way I can't see us grabbing him in the 1st round with other posiitons in much more serious need of shoring up. If he falls to 2nd round, which it would take a bona fide miracle for that to happen, then we take a serious look at him.
I happen to think that we have enough options for OLB on the roster right now that we can easily afford to look after other positions.

...and by the way, GIG "EM Aggies! Just because I'm not a Sooner fan doesn't mean I can't appreciate good football.

threetoedpete
01-23-2005, 11:47 PM
Noooooo AJ it was Dan Cody going to the Texans on two Mock Drafts I read this morning. Yeah Shaun Cody (USC) makes more sense but Dan Cody(OU) just wouldn't fit in our 3-4 scheme...maybe as a OLB but we great talent there already. Maybe the site made a typo and meant Shaun Cody, I dunno but no way we take Dan Cody!

I agree with most of this statement. We didn't get the sack totals of a "loaded with team tallent" at linebacker team. I think Babin proved last year he can play the run. But
Last year if I remember correctly they envoked the Kevin Green label on him. Maybe I just need a six pack of patience but I didn't see anything near KG. Peek I'm not too worried about....yet. It took the titan's Keith Bullock a couple of seasons be for he "got it". I agree though that Dan Cody is a bit small for a 3-4. But....if they go to a 4-3 scheeme you never know. Pittsburg took an undersized gut named Smith a couple of years ago and he's turned
out to be prettty good. Don't mean to be a bomb thrower just thinking.

Vinny
01-24-2005, 12:23 AM
Last year if I remember correctly they envoked the Kevin Green label on him. Maybe I just need a six pack of patience but I didn't see anything near KG. I bet you didn't know that Kevin Greene's first three years in the NFL he had a grand total of 13.5 sacks...TOTAL. In his FOURTH season he led his team in sacks (for the first time) with 16.5, I repeat, his 4th season.

I keep posting this (below) but nobody wants to digest it. Everyone wants to define linebackers by sack totals alone. Letís look at guys playing LOLB in a few other 3-4 defenses. Earlier in the year I said his game looks like Vrabel's does. Statistically they ended up very close.

Steelers Clark Haggans had 37 tackles and 6 sacks
Patriots Mike Vrabel 71 tackles and 5.5 sacks
Chargers Ben Leber 60 total tackles and 2 sacks
Texans Jason Babin 63 total tackles and 4 sacks

J-Man
01-24-2005, 02:14 PM
Good post on comparing 3-4 OLBs InfantryCak...I wanted to expand on that theme a bit to make a point about our need to improve the pass rush. In the table below is shows the top 10 producers on the Steelers defense. Couple things struck me when I looked this up a minute ago. The #1 defense in the league did NOT have a double digit sack producer and how spread out the stats were across the team...Clearly Farrior, Polamalu, and Hope had great seasons but it is pretty clear that everybody on that side of the ball was working to make plays.
This is the great example of how the 3-4 works when things are meshing well. Everybody has opportunity to bring pressure on the QB and make plays, the flip side is ATL where Kerney and Coleman accounted for more than half the sacks of the whole team. I happen to think that protection schemes are much tougher when you have to account for all 11 guys with the potential for bringing the heat on your QB.
There is a lot of talk about how we MUST have a double digit sacker to save the defense. I think that with quality players that are allowed to develop in our system we could evolve into a similar preforming defense.

Player Tackle Assist Sacks INT
Aaron Smith 43 13 7.0 0
Joey Porter 54 17 7.0 1
Clark Haggans 38 8 6.0 0
Deshea Townsend 56 9 4.0 4
James Farrior 96 28 4.0 4
Larry Foote 69 16 3.0 1
Kimo Von Oelhoffen 24 8 1.0 0
Troy Polamalu 94 28 1.0 5
Willie Williams 54 14 1.0 1
Chris Hope 90 31 0.0 1

beerlover
01-25-2005, 09:41 AM
now that I've made Dan Cody the Jaguars 1st round draft choice in our little Mock Draft exercise, here is my opinion. Dan Cody would be an outstanding 3-4 linebacker for the Texans, he's bigger & stronger than Babin along with more experienced coming out of College than Babin although both are along the same lines in terms of effort & productivity. The major difference between the two is that Dan is more of a pass rusher while Jason is a better run stopper, so all Cappers would have to do is adjust their line positions ROLB & LOLB. Like Babin Dan is mature enough to become the starter as a rookie, can play on the line effectivley as a DE & open up the lanes to the QB.

along with the fact of the playoff success of teams using the 3-4 defense & other teams wanting to convert I would be very surprised if Dan Cody actually was still available when the Jaguars select (21st) but hey I'm not complaining :heh:

TexansTrueFan
01-25-2005, 11:01 AM
well why dont we just put peek in there ? Peek is a premiere Pass Rusher and with babin on the other side i think that would be a dangerious Duo.

Lucky
01-25-2005, 11:08 AM
...The major difference between the two is that Dan is more of a pass rusher while Jason is a better run stopper, so all Cappers would have to do is adjust their line positions ROLB & LOLB...
I'm a little confused. Whom do you see playing ROLB & LOLB? I'd also like to point out that Babin was a big time pass rusher in college. Which guy will be the better pro is TBD.

beerlover
01-25-2005, 12:06 PM
I'm a little confused. Whom do you see playing ROLB & LOLB? I'd also like to point out that Babin was a big time pass rusher in college. Which guy will be the better pro is TBD.

Cappers would decide, I think they would be easily interchangable depending on specific schemes & creating mis-matches. If your asking me then I would say leave Babin @ LOLB and bring in Cody @ ROLB. Remember there is a distinct size difference Babin being around 6'2" 260 lbs. & Cody still a lean 6'5" 270 lbs. The playmaking combination of the two could be dynamic @ OLB.

To your second point yes Babin was a big time pass rusher @ Western Michigan which is in the Mid-American Conference, not to take anything away from him but its does not compare to the level of competition @ quality of program @ the University of Oklahoma or the Big 12 Conference or even the quality & level of competition Cody faced USC, BCS bowls etc....

Cincinnatikid
01-25-2005, 12:20 PM
well why dont we just put peek in there ? Peek is a premiere Pass Rusher and with babin on the other side i think that would be a dangerious Duo.


EXACTLY, there is no point in drafting a 1st round OLB, they already have babin and peek. If they get some help from the dline, maybe shaun cody not dan, then they would be fine. You got two guys that can play on this team already, but they cant make plays if they are double teamed all the time. Get them some help and you will have the future Vrables, Porters, FOLEYS, or whoever you want to name. OLB was probably the one position that had the least amount of problems this past season.

nunusguy
01-25-2005, 12:44 PM
I'd be surprised if we used our top pick on Cody if he's on the Board for us,
since we have > needs than OLB this year and he's not a freak.
But if somehow Derrick Johnson or Merriman (the Maryland underclassman coming out early who reportedly is a freak ), were available
we might use our first on them. Either one of those guys (including the Maryland DE), could play any of the LB spots for us. But I think we'll go DL with our first pick - assuming we don't get a DL guy in FA. Too much uncertainty with Seth (the hard luck guy with injuries), and G.Walker is
obviously way past his prime and it's a long downhill ride for him now.

Lucky
01-25-2005, 02:09 PM
To your second point yes Babin was a big time pass rusher @ Western Michigan which is in the Mid-American Conference, not to take anything away from him but its does not compare to the level of competition @ quality of program @ the University of Oklahoma...
No it doesn't. But in 3 career starts vs. Big 10 schools (Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue), Babin averaged 7 tackles, 3.3 TFL, and 2 sacks per game. So when Babin did face quality competition, he fared extremely well.

The discussion on Dan Cody reminds me of the debate last year on whether Will Smith could translate to 34 OLB. Smith was (and is) a legit DE prospect and not a tweener. But, he did have the type of athleticism that would make you consider OLB a possibility. Cody is not a tweener. He's a legit NFL RDE prospect. But, he may have the ability to play the 34 OLB. Right now I would put Dan Cody in the same column as David Pollard. Might be a 34 OLB, but is a better 43 RDE right now.

Cincinnatikid
01-25-2005, 02:12 PM
This team doesnt need another freak at OLB, Peek is quite a freak himself. The guy is 250 runs near a 4.5, has between a 35 and 40 inch vertical, and has been with the team two years learning the system. He is going to pan out if they give him a chance

Vinny
01-25-2005, 02:13 PM
Cody is a little taller than Payne and right under 300 pounds (Payne is 303) at his Sr Bowl weigh in. I think he may be large enough to be an end in the 3-4 I think. He will probably gain another solid 10 to 15 pounds in the NFL. I don't think he can play the linebacker at the next level.

*edit....I am talking about the other Cody....carry on. :shocked

Vinny
01-25-2005, 02:16 PM
This team doesnt need another freak at OLB, Peek is quite a freak himself. The guy is 250 runs near a 4.5, has between a 35 and 40 inch vertical, and has been with the team two years learning the system. He is going to pan out if they give him a chanceThat didn't stop the Patriots from signing Colvin or McGinest. We still need impact linebackers. A "couple of good ones" is not enough if you are going to run a proper 3-4

Lucky
01-25-2005, 02:41 PM
*edit....I am talking about the other Cody....carry on. :shocked
That's OK. Shaun won the BCS game, he deserves some love. Read where the Pats were all over Shaun at the Senior Bowl check-in, so they must think he can play the 34 DE.

Speaking of the BCS game, there's a rumor that Dan Cody asked one of the USC O-lineman to run the ball and get the game over. Weird.

Wild Bill
01-25-2005, 03:21 PM
What we need is a run stopper at the Nose Tackle position much the Tony Saragusa/Sam Adams/Casey Hampton type. Guys who required at least two O-Lineman to account for them in blocking schemes for run plays and pass blocking.

The word has it that Travis Johnson from Florida State can be that kind of player. He has the size and strength but has problems staying healthy.

The Texans are in a bad position in this draft because there is simply not that many 'impact' Pro Bowl potential players in this draft, much less at number 13.

I would be in favor of seeing them trade down if they are not interested in draft Johnson to get an O-Lineman like Munoz from Tennessee, who can be had later in the first round.

We need help protecting David Carr. No matter if we had a receiving core of A. Johnson, R. Moss, T. Owens, and whoever else you want to throw in there, it won't help if Carr can get more than 2 seconds drop back and find his receivers.

What's ya'll thoughts on that????

nunusguy
01-25-2005, 03:41 PM
I would be in favor of seeing them trade down if they are not interested in draft Johnson to get an O-Lineman like Munoz from Tennessee, who can be had later in the first round.
We need help protecting David Carr. No matter if we had a receiving core of A. Johnson, R. Moss, T. Owens, and whoever else you want to throw in there, it won't help if Carr can get more than 2 seconds drop back and find his receivers.

They have left the impression that they are going to go with the W & W
combo, and therefor would not use our first round pick on an O tackle this
draft. But I'm with you on a DT - that's their top priority for the 13th.

Huge
01-25-2005, 05:01 PM
That's OK. Shaun won the BCS game, he deserves some love. Read where the Pats were all over Shaun at the Senior Bowl check-in, so they think must think he can play the 34 DE.

Speaking of the BCS game, there's a rumor that Dan Cody asked one of the USC O-lineman to run the ball and get the game over. Weird.
He was caught on camera saying he couldn't wait to catch the next red-eye back to Oklahoma.