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Texans34Life
01-25-2009, 08:18 AM
http://profootball.scout.com/2/833198.html

#15 - Texans pick Vontae Davis, CB.

And in his draft, we pass up Michael Johnson, James Laurinaitis, Peria Jerry, and Aaron Maybin. :confused:

Do you guys agree w/ this mock? Do we need a CB more than a DE or DT?

nero THE zero
01-25-2009, 08:34 AM
If we ended up signing/trading for a DE and not re-signing Dunta, I could easily see us taking a CB with the first; especially if Davis or Jenkins is there.

Also, in Rick Smith's recent interview, he made mention that you can never have enough CB who can cover:
Rick Smith: I agree with those assessments. I think that when you look at our football team on the defensive side of the ball, I think you can always improve athleticism. I think, in addition to some of those things, you can always improve your corner position. You can never have enough men that can cover.

danger6
01-25-2009, 08:54 AM
Vontae Davis seems like a low risk / high reward player at a position of need. Personally I don't think CB/S is a higher need than DE, but maybe a higher need than LB. I'm afraid of Michael Johnson (possible boom or bust?); Laurinaitis might be a good choice, Maybin might be "tweener". I really like Peria Jerry but I'm just not sure we would want to spend the #15 for a part time rotational player (if that is what they would use him for) versus an every down player. If the new coaches want to line Jerry up next to AO in their new scheme then great.

This is from a paid site, so moderators, please delete if necessary:

Drew Boylhart 12/08

Vontae Davis CB Illinois

STRENGTHS
Vontae is an excellent CB. He has good size, speed, quickness to play his position. He is a smart player and is a wrap-up tackler. He reminds me a lot of Antoine Winfield (CB Vikings) when he comes up and supports the run. Vontae is an excellent zone cover CB with the athletic talent to be an excellent man-to-man CB. He shows leadership skills through his play on the field and understands situational football. Add all this up and you have the recipe for an impact, multi-talented CB/DB for the team that drafts him.

NEEDS TO IMPROVE
He is an excellent zone CB right now, but in man-to-man he has some bad habits that will be magnified at the next level because of his enormous talent. He looks into the backfield way too quickly right now. This makes it easy for WR's and QB's at the next level to beat Vontae deep very easy. He has such good make-up speed that he is able to do this at the college level and not have it be a problem. He comes up quickly and does an excellent job supporting the run, but down the field in open space, he is not as good a tackler; however, he does get the job done. All of these issues are nit picking and should not be an issue at the next level as he gains experience.

TALENT BOARD ROUND 1
I have not seen Vontae on special teams, but I'm sure he will be an asset and impact right away in that regard. His man-to-man skills are there, but they need to be refined. Techniques are the issue, but he is smart and coachable. With a few games under his belt, he should become excellent in both zone and man-to-man coverage. He is strong and in a nickel-dime package, you should be able to move him inside to cover those big WR's in the slot. But don't be fooled: this kid can stay with just about any style of WR you put him up against. He has all the tools. He is quick, fast, strong and smart and if he gets beat, he learns during the game to adapt and defend better. He understands situational football and could be a hell of a safety as well as a lock down cover corner. In my book, he is the top CB in this draft. Vontae is a smooth operator. That's why I cal him Vontae (Smooth Operator) Davis.

Blake
01-25-2009, 10:31 AM
I have no problem taking a CB in round 1. Even with Dunta, you can never have enough good corners especially when you play PM 2x a year. And its not like we have a pair of elite corners. Our best CB just had his leg ripped apart a year ago.

Looking at the available players I think a trade back would have been the best idea. If you had to stick at 15 I would go with Michael Johnson assuming we don't trade for a FA DE, which didn't work well in the past.

YoungTexanFan
01-25-2009, 10:40 AM
Davis is a pick similar to other first rounders in the Rick Smith era. Davis' potential is not close to tapped. He has the ability to be an elite CB. He isn't an elite CB, so don't misquote that, but he has the physical ability to do everything. His man-to-man skill are what he needs to work on the most, but he has shown improvements at Illinois this past season as compared to the year before. Davis has a very big body and has borderline elite speed. He needs to work on tracking the ball in the air in downfield man coverage. He has the potential to be a top 5 CB in the league with some technique refinement, and that is what the NFL is supposed to do for young players. Right now, he is an adequate CB who could and would push for a starting spot; he could possibly push Reeves to the Nickel. However, he isn't a player you expect to "produce" for a full year or two. It's tough to wait on guys like that, but he is that (potentially) elite of a talent.

With everything said, I would be ok with Davis drafted in the first round.

Goatcheese
01-25-2009, 10:44 AM
I don't like VD. He reminds me too much of DeAngelo "OOPS, I just gave up a long TD" Hall.

The more I see of Alphonso Smith out of Wake Forest, the more I like him. He reminds me of Asante "Pick Six" Samuels. He had 8 picks in 2007, and 7 in 2008. If we go CB in the first I will nerd rage if it is VD over Smith. :wild:

TexansSeminole
01-25-2009, 10:51 AM
I don't like VD. He reminds me too much of DeAngelo "OOPS, I just gave up a long TD" Hall.

The more I see of Alphonso Smith out of Wake Forest, the more I like him. He reminds me of Asante "Pick Six" Samuels. He had 8 picks in 2007, and 7 in 2008. If we go CB in the first I will nerd rage if it is VD over Smith. :wild:

Alphonso Smith is great, but I like Vontae Davis too. What you get with VD is size and speed. What you get with Alphonso Smith is a 5-9 absolute playmaker, and also alot of speed.

If we were going to go with a CB, I would rather us go with a guy who may have slipped to us at #47 our second round pick. If Alphonso Smith was there I wouldn't mind it one bit.

YoungTexanFan
01-25-2009, 10:51 AM
I don't like VD. He reminds me too much of DeAngelo "OOPS, I just gave up a long TD" Hall.

The more I see of Alphonso Smith out of Wake Forest, the more I like him. He reminds me of Asante "Pick Six" Samuels. He had 8 picks in 2007, and 7 in 2008. If we go CB in the first I will nerd rage if it is VD over Smith. :wild:

The thing with the first round of the NFL draft is physical projection of skills. I love Alphonso Smith as a prospect and player, and would love to have him on my team. With that said, he is about 5'9 180, which will give him some trouble in the NFL with bigger WRs. There should be no question wether or not he will be an NFL CB, but rather if he will be a #1 CB. Davis is 6'0 and 205 with better size. While I don't think he has the skills that Smith has by any means, Davis has more "upside" to reach than Smith. I think Smith will have a lot to prove in the proverbial sense, but that Davis may have more value as a #1 CB to teams. It's potential.

Blake
01-25-2009, 10:51 AM
Davis is a pick similar to other first rounders in the Rick Smith era. Davis' potential is not close to tapped. He has the ability to be an elite CB. He isn't an elite CB, so don't misquote that, but he has the physical ability to do everything. His man-to-man skill are what he needs to work on the most, but he has shown improvements at Illinois this past season as compared to the year before. Davis has a very big body and has borderline elite speed. He needs to work on tracking the ball in the air in downfield man coverage. He has the potential to be a top 5 CB in the league with some technique refinement, and that is what the NFL is supposed to do for young players. Right now, he is an adequate CB who could and would push for a starting spot; he could possibly push Reeves to the Nickel. However, he isn't a player you expect to "produce" for a full year or two. It's tough to wait on guys like that, but he is that (potentially) elite of a talent.

With everything said, I would be ok with Davis drafted in the first round.

The sad thing is that im not sold that the Texans would be able to make him as good as he could be with a team of better coaches.

Hoke did a great job with Dunta, and some of our other talent. But now we have David Gibbs who did a great job with Page and Pollard so far at the safties position, and Brandon Flowers their rookie CB out of V Tech did a nice job this year as well, so maybe he can work some magic if we decided on Davis round 1.

YoungTexanFan
01-25-2009, 10:54 AM
Alphonso Smith is great, but I like Vontae Davis too. What you get with VD is size and speed. What you get with Alphonso Smith is a 5-9 absolute playmaker, and also alot of speed.

If we were going to go with a CB, I would rather us go with a guy who may have slipped to us at #47 our second round pick. If Alphonso Smith was there I wouldn't mind it one bit.

This is how I feel as well. I think CB is a possible position to slip this year with some good playmakers. Guys like DJ Moore, Sean Smith, and Alphonso Smith. I think there will be good value in the second round.

YoungTexanFan
01-25-2009, 10:58 AM
The sad thing is that im not sold that the Texans would be able to make him as good as he could be with a team of better coaches.

Hoke did a great job with Dunta, and some of our other talent. But now we have David Gibbs who did a great job with Page and Pollard so far at the safties position, and Brandon Flowers their rookie CB out of V Tech did a nice job this year as well, so maybe he can work some magic if we decided on Davis round 1.

That is the risk with the draft. Believe it or not, Davis Carr was one of the best QB prospects in this decade. We don't need to re-hash that, but that is why the draft is a crapshoot. Very rarely are there guys like Adrian Peterson or Orlando Pace. Guys who are just complete when they come out. Guys who don't need to be coached up. Most amateurs entering the NFL need coaching up, and the ability of a coaching staff to develop their players is the difference between a Jared Allen in the 4th round to a Jason Babin in the first round. Nobody expected Allen to be the player he has become. That was the coaching staff developing him.

Goatcheese
01-25-2009, 11:09 AM
The thing with the first round of the NFL draft is physical projection of skills. I love Alphonso Smith as a prospect and player, and would love to have him on my team. With that said, he is about 5'9 180, which will give him some trouble in the NFL with bigger WRs. There should be no question wether or not he will be an NFL CB, but rather if he will be a #1 CB. Davis is 6'0 and 205 with better size. While I don't think he has the skills that Smith has by any means, Davis has more "upside" to reach than Smith. I think Smith will have a lot to prove in the proverbial sense, but that Davis may have more value as a #1 CB to teams. It's potential.

I think if you're going to draft a guy who is mostly potential, you might as well grab Domonique Johnson out of Jackson St. He's a better athlete, and has better instincts than VD.

This is how I feel as well. I think CB is a possible position to slip this year with some good playmakers. Guys like DJ Moore, Sean Smith, and Alphonso Smith. I think there will be good value in the second round.

If DJ Moore, or Alphonso Smith were there in the second, this would be me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEpZR9XgV48).

YoungTexanFan
01-25-2009, 11:14 AM
I don't think there are many "better" athletes than Vonte Davis in this draft. He is related to Vernon "super athletic freak" Davis.

Ole Miss Texan
01-25-2009, 11:23 AM
I wouldn't be opposed to selecting Davis, especially in this situation. We really need to somehow get a pass rushing DE but that doesn't mean you force one in the first round. I always love a CB that could potentially be a shutdown type.

I'm still not sure where Reeves and Dunta fit on this team. Are Reeves and/or Dunta both #2 corners or are they both guys that should be covering the slot? Does Dunta at 187 lbs or so have the ability to play FS for us? Does Fred Bennett still need more developing? How will Molden bounce back from injury? Will he continue to be an excellent STs guy and be working on his CB skills? I like the guys we have on our current roster and think they have a lot of potential. But if something goes wrong, its a weakness again. Right now our secondary looks decent based purely on potential, imo.

Reeves has 3 years left on his contract and hopefully Dunta gets resigned. I think Davis could be a great selection.

beerlover
01-25-2009, 11:45 AM
I wouldn't be opposed to selecting Davis, especially in this situation. We really need to somehow get a pass rushing DE but that doesn't mean you force one in the first round. I always love a CB that could potentially be a shutdown type.

I'm still not sure where Reeves and Dunta fit on this team. Are Reeves and/or Dunta both #2 corners or are they both guys that should be covering the slot? Does Dunta at 187 lbs or so have the ability to play FS for us? Does Fred Bennett still need more developing? How will Molden bounce back from injury? Will he continue to be an excellent STs guy and be working on his CB skills? I like the guys we have on our current roster and think they have a lot of potential. But if something goes wrong, its a weakness again. Right now our secondary looks decent based purely on potential, imo.

Reeves has 3 years left on his contract and hopefully Dunta gets resigned. I think Davis could be a great selection.

this class does not have quality @ the top of a Leodis McKelvin or Rodgers-Cromartie. taking Davis @ #15 only if you don't re-sign Dunta Robinson. so basicly if you don't resign Dunta you cost yourself a 1st rd. pick. I fail to see how that improves this team over our AFC South counterparts when we need to revamp DE, LB & FS too :thisbig:

Honoring Earl 34
01-25-2009, 11:49 AM
I think it becomes a stuation where the top 3 pass rushing DEs will be gone . Ok ... how about OLB ... Curry will be gone . CBs ... Jenkins should be gone . DTs ... Raji should be gone which leaves choices for the next level of talent at need positions .

DE's
Kruger
Johnson
English

LBs
Cushing
Rey M.

CBs
Davis
Smith
Moore

DTs
Jerry

YoungTexanFan
01-25-2009, 11:52 AM
this class does not have quality @ the top of a Leodis McKelvin or Rodgers-Cromartie. taking Davis @ #15 only if you don't re-sign Dunta Robinson. so basicly if you don't resign Dunta you cost yourself a 1st rd. pick. I fail to see how that improves this team over our AFC South counterparts when we need to revamp DE, LB & FS too :thisbig:

Agreed. I think there will be CB value in the second round and could be addressed next year as well, but right now it could be a numbers game. As I said, I wouldn't be too upset with Davis on my team, but I think we could use our first rounder in a few better ways.

YoungTexanFan
01-25-2009, 11:54 AM
I think it becomes a stuation where the top 3 pass rushing DEs will be gone . Ok ... how about OLB ... Curry will be gone . CBs ... Jenkins should be gone . DTs ... Raji should be gone which leaves choices for the next level of talent at need positions .

DE's
Kruger
Johnson
English

LBs
Cushing
Rey M.

CBs
Davis
Smith
Moore

DTs
Jerry

It's early, but none of those DE's are worth a top 15 pick, and only Johnson has first round potential. Maualuga and Cushing are both studs; both would be upgrades to our team. Davis has been covered above and Smith (both Sean and Alphonso) and Moore could slide to the second. I'm not a fan of any of the DT's in the draft class.

steelbtexan
01-25-2009, 12:24 PM
I believe that we need to add 4 defensive starters to shore up the defense.

This is what I would do (trade a 09 3rd & a 2010 3rd for a 09 2nd). Kubes should do this bcause if they dont win in 09 he is going to be fired.

Rd1 Jerry
Rd2 Ayers
Rd2 Moore or Delmas
Rd 4 N.Harris

Honoring Earl 34
01-25-2009, 12:39 PM
It's early, but none of those DE's are worth a top 15 pick, and only Johnson has first round potential. Maualuga and Cushing are both studs; both would be upgrades to our team. Davis has been covered above and Smith (both Sean and Alphonso) and Moore could slide to the second. I'm not a fan of any of the DT's in the draft class.

I'm thinking trade down or take a LB . I think one of the OT's or a QB may slide for trade bait .

steelbtexan
01-25-2009, 12:55 PM
I'm thinking trade down or take a LB . I think one of the OT's or a QB may slide for trade bait .

Agreed

I really want us to take A DE in rds. 1-3

If we can trade down & get an extra 3rd this would be ideal

Ayers in the 2nd or Sidbury in the 3rd would do the trick.

Sidbury is a guy who has untapped potential IMO

Second Honeymoon
01-25-2009, 12:55 PM
This seems like a very shaky mock draft. Sanchez at #1 raised some eyebrows for sure.

As for his 15th selection for our Texans, his choice was pretty astute based on who was left on the board. Davis makes a lot of sense even if do resign Dunta and/or lure a guy here with big FA dollars.

As previous poster stated, you can never have enough quality CBs and if he is the best or 2nd best secondary player in the draft and he is there at #15, you almost have to take him especially if Maualuga is off the board at #14 as this mock has him going there.

sorry about the walloftext, its early

Goatcheese
01-25-2009, 01:08 PM
Some paraphrased/shortened version of comments from nfldraftscout senior bowl coverage.

1/20/09 - Monday Wake Forest's Alphonso Smith has elite foot quickness, and flexible hips for man coverage. Smith was aggressive throughout the day, breaking up multiple short passes, and challenging receivers to try and take him deep. He victimized White for an easy pick-six late in the scrimmage that just served as icing on the cake. Smith was as impressive as any player on the field.

1/21/09 - Wednesday The poor QB play has made grading CBs tougher than most years. What has been obvious throughout the week, however, is Wake Forest's CB Alphonso Smith's willingness to gamble -- often resulting in big plays in his favor. Smith has excellent foot quickness and balance. In fact, he frequently has run better routes than the receivers he was covering this week. He intercepted his third pass in as many practices Wednesday.

Somebody will take him in the first. I'd rather the Texans draft DE, DT, or LT over corner, but if they go that route, I like Smith best, and of the guys who could be there it's not really close.

His height is a negative, but he's about the same size as guys like Cortland Finnegan, Asante Samuel, Dre Bly, and Aaron Glenn. If you had the chance to pick up one of those guys fresh out of college would you pass on them over an inch or two? I think not.

BigBull17
01-25-2009, 01:35 PM
Look for us to grab run stuffing LB/s. Rey M. and one other in rounds 3-5