PDA

View Full Version : LZs premiere 2009 Mock has us taking a DT. No Way !


nunusguy
01-22-2009, 08:36 AM
1. Detroit - Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia: The Lions need a QB, but do they need this one? My guess is they will try and trade back but with no success. Stafford's football smarts have been questioned by a few insiders behind the scenes. The Lions could also look at Mark Sanchez in this spot.

2. St. Louis - Eugene Monroe, LT, Virginia: The Rams have an aging LT in Pace and a disappointing RT in Barron. Monroe helps them get better up front right away.

3. Kansas City - Andre Smith, OT, Alabama: The Chiefs are looking to get bigger on the offensive and defensive lines and Smith fits the bill. He can play RT opposite last year's first rounder, Brandon Albert.

4. Seattle - Mark Sanchez, QB, USC: Matt Hasselbeck is getting older and when teams buy into a young QB prospect, they love to pull the trigger. I'm guessing Seattle buys in.

5. Cleveland - Aaron Curry, OLB, Virginia: The Browns are still looking to fortify their pass rush and Curry is the type of all-around LB that would fit perfectly in the Browns 3-4.

6. Cincinnati - B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College: While the Bengals will be looking for someone to replace Stacy Andrews at RT in the draft, I think they will look for that later in the draft. Raji helps against the run and pass right away.

7. Oakland - Michael Oher, OT, Ole Miss : Al Davis loves size and speed, but he'll have to settle for size with Michael Oher anchoring the offensive line at either LT or RT.

8. Jacksonville - Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Jacksonville: The Jaguars pass defense was much poorer than expected last year as CB Florence had a disappointing season as a free agent. In a division that features Peyton Manning and the Texans, you must look for good CBs and Jenkins is the best this year.

9. Green Bay - Everette Brown, DE/OLB, Florida State: The Packers are smartly transitioning to a 3-4 which actually fits their personnel better. The Packers need to find a pass rusher in the worst way and Brown is a great fit. Brown reminds me a little bit of LaMarr Woodley but only with greater length.

10. San Francisco - Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech: The Niners know that they have to get better on offense and one of their first priorities should be finding a top-notch #1 WR. If this isn't Crabtree then it could be the speedier Jeremy Maclin.

11. Buffalo - Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State
12. Denver - Ray Maualuga, ILB, USC
13. Washington - Aaron Maybin, DE, Penn State
14. New Orleans - Jason Smith, OT, Baylor

15. Houston - Peria Jerry, DT, Ole Miss: While most draft pundits might not have Jerry this high, scouts already believe that he might be better than Amobi Okoye right now. Jerry and Okoye both play the 3-technique DT but new defensive line coach doesn't mind rotating DTs in and out and Jerry's motor might be too much to pass up on. The Texans, however, could look at the defensive line as a position they've put too much money in already to invest another pick in. Then again, they might care more about getting the problem fixed. I honestly believe that USC OLB Brian Cushing could be a possibility here as well.

16. San Diego (8-8) - Brian Cushing, LB, USC
17. New York Jets (9-7) - Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois
18. Chicago (9-7) - Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
19. Tampa Bay - D.J. Moore, CB, Vanderbilt
20. Detroit - Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
21. Philadelphia - Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest
22. Minnesota - Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
23. New England - Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
24. Atlanta - Fili Moala, DT, USC
25. Miami - Clint Sintim, LB, Virginia
26. Baltimore - James Laurinaitis, LB, Ohio State
27. Indianapolis - Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU
28. Philadelphia - Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State
29. New York Giants - Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland
30. Tennessee - Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina
31. Arizona - Max Unger, C, Oregon
32. Pittsburgh - Alex Mack, C, Cal: For Steelers fans who are reading this, I just can't find an offensive tackle I like enough to put one in this spot so for now I'll stick with best available lineman.
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/01/mock_me_my_first_mock_draft_of.html
***************************************
I'm a big LZ fan, but I'd be very surprised if we drafted an Okoye clone, even
if Jerry is a slight upgrade of the origional.

Kaiser Toro
01-22-2009, 08:43 AM
I agree, no Okoye clones, as we already have a work in progress. We need a player that come in make an impact, but also to provide a skill set that is different than what we already have.

I like Brace in the 3rd, but I would rather jump up to take him in the 2nd than a reach for Jerry in the 1st. Both options I would rather not take.

I saw LZ thought Orakpo may slip, and his mock shows that. But Orakpo at 15 and Matthews in th 2nd make us faster, smarter and better on the Defensive side of the ball.

Errant Hothy
01-22-2009, 08:53 AM
I honestly believe that USC OLB Brian Cushing could be a possibility here as well.

That's also whom I'm starting to think will be the pick at 15.

TimeKiller
01-22-2009, 09:04 AM
We pass Orakpo for a 2nd round DT clone of a 1st round DT?

Thanks but no thanks.

nunusguy
01-22-2009, 09:09 AM
I saw LZ thought Orakpo may slip, and his mock shows that. But Orakpo at 15 and Matthews in th 2nd make us faster, smarter and better on the Defensive side of the ball.
LZ obviously thinks Orako is not suited for the 4-3 and instead will need to
transistion to the 3-4 as an OLB in the NFL, else he'd probably take him if he was on the Board at #15.
If you've been watching the Senior Bowl practices you know Jerry has been impressive, but the #1 standout among DTs is B.J. Raji because he's got Jerry's quicks but he's 'bout 25-30 lbs bigger. We would take him at #15 because he's so much more than Jerry or Okoye, so much more versatile but he'll be long gone.
Cushing is a possibility and I dunno but wonder if he's not a better value for us than the overhyped Rey-Rey ?

D-ReK
01-22-2009, 09:10 AM
Jerry is most likely the best fit with the scheme we're alleged to be going with. He's quick, agile, and can get to the passer, which seems to be all we're focused on.

For those wanting us to take a clogger like Brace or Dorell Scott, it simply won't happen. Frank Bush claims to want players who will shoot the gaps and make plays in the backfield, and Kollar's DLs fit this mold as well. This probably fits our personnel better since we have a slew of one gap penetrators who are unable to even command a double team, much less beat one. What makes Jerry different than what we already have is his quickness. He's much quicker and more agile than anybody we have on the roster. That being said, that's pretty much all he has. He's going to be a 25 year old rookie who is undersized and not stout at the point of attack and gets pushed around in the running game. He has the makings of another guy who is more or less done if he doesn't beat the blocker with his quickness. I think he'd probably work best in a Tampa-2.

We'd probably be better off going with Orakpo at this pick and hoping for Ziggy Hood in the second or even Mitch King in the later rounds.

Kaiser Toro
01-22-2009, 09:15 AM
LZ obviously thinks Orako is not suited for the 4-3 and instead will need to
transistion to the 3-4 as an OLB in the NFL, else he'd probably take him if he was on the Board at #15.
If you've been watching the Senior Bowl practices you know Jerry has been impressive, but the #1 standout among DTs is B.J. Raji because he's got Jerry's quicks but he's 'bout 25-30 lbs bigger. We would take him at #15 because he's so much more than Jerry or Okoye, so much more versatile but he'll be long gone.
Cushing is a possibility and I dunno but wonder if he's not a better value for us than the overhyped Rey-Rey ?

I just see Orakpo as a multi dimensional player and believe the 4-3, 3-4 question is about Orakpo's draft value, more so if he can play one or the other. Smart, fast and strong go a long way in overcoming adversity in this league.

If Raji were selected at #15, I would not be complaining.

Texan JBZ
01-22-2009, 09:22 AM
Surprising that he has the Texans taking Jerry, but I don't believe he'll be there at 15. I'm also surprised that he doesn't have Michael Johnson going in the 1st. I know there are a lot of questions out there about his work ethic and his dedication to the game, but I don't think the Texans can pass up that kind of athlete at a position of need. I wouldn't mind him or Orakpo. I just don't see him falling that far either.

I'm not a Brian Cushing fan. I'd rather the Texans go after Michael Boley from Atlanta who is an UFA.

Errant Hothy
01-22-2009, 09:25 AM
Orakpo is probaly going to grade out as being an OLB in a 3-4, which means he will not be a Texan.

I'm not sold on drafting Jerry, espically given that Okoye is still so young, but we shall see.

Ole Miss Texan
01-22-2009, 09:44 AM
LOL, Jerry is not an Amobi clone at all. He's a very similar type of DT as Amobi, but the pick of AO was purely based on the kids upside and potential.

Jerry is not a 2nd round DT, he's the best UT in the draft and definitely worth a 1st rd pick. I'd even say he would come in and be better at stopping the run and rushing the passer than Amobi is right now.

I was where yall were sitting a while ago. I don't want another UT, we've got that. I want a Raji or maybe even a Brace later on. But that's not what this DL coach does. He doesn't have huge guys to eat up space, he has all four D-linemen rushing into the backfield practically every play. Brace, Okam aren't those guys. If we're going to pick a DT on the 1st day, he's going to be a guy that can get in the backfield.

Jerry would be a good pick. Not my favorite, but all the guys we really want will probably be gone and Jerry would be BPA. Amobi and Jerry would most likely start next to each other with Travis a backup.

Is Cushing starting to come back up the boards now? I thought that guy got injured every other play.

I will add Vontae Davis could be an intruiging selection.

BigBull17
01-22-2009, 09:56 AM
Hood and King look real good, and will be thre in the later rounds. I dont really like what Ive seen of Brace at Senior Bowl practice. I'd love to trade down in this instance and gather more picks.

Goldensilence
01-22-2009, 10:50 AM
I'm not a HUGE fan of taking another DT in the first. DE I wouldn't be opposed to. If Orakpo fell there I would be a little disappointed if we didn't take him. Guy is listed as 3 inches higher then Freeney but weighs about 8lbs less. I like that he took boxing and will probably use his hands intelligently as a pro. Not sure if we are "set" at DT but I don't we are hurting terribly enough to justify using a 1st. I think best value for the team would be a LB.

beerlover
01-22-2009, 10:57 AM
hope Rick can trade down like last year...........................:)

LonerATO
01-22-2009, 11:01 AM
hope Rick can trade down like last year...........................:)

I second that

badboy
01-22-2009, 11:21 AM
I just see Orakpo as a multi dimensional player and believe the 4-3, 3-4 question is about Orakpo's draft value, more so if he can play one or the other. Smart, fast and strong go a long way in overcoming adversity in this league.

If Raji were selected at #15, I would not be complaining.I agree 100%. Quick DTs like Peria may occasionally disrupt Qb but we better come up with a way to shut down the run. Lance's DT may be better than any we have but that just means we have a better talent that can't stop the RB. Orakpo I'd be ok with but does nothing for the run. Raji or Brace should stop run and still collapse pocket back pressuring the QB..

bah007
01-22-2009, 11:51 AM
Picks I disagree with:

4. Seattle - Mark Sanchez, QB, USC:

I think ESPN is getting the mock drafters to believe in the Sanchez hype. The guy isn't polished enough to go #4. Seattle would be a good place for him because he could sit behind Hasselbeck, but is this really their biggest need? I don't think so. I see Sanchez going 10-15. This looks like a reach to me.
.
.
10. San Francisco - Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech

Agree that the Niners should take him if he is there. I just don't see him dropping to 10.
.
.
15. Houston - Peria Jerry, DT, Ole Miss

I am very high on Jerry. I would love this pick...if Orakpo weren't still on the board. Jerry can do it all and is very underrated at this point.

16. San Diego (8-8) - Brian Cushing, LB, USC

Where does Cushing fit in a 3-4 defense? Does he have the speed to be an edge rusher?
.
.
20. Detroit - Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia

Seemed to me like Kevin Smith and Calvin Johnson were the only good players the Lions had last season. Now they will replace one of them? I don't buy that.
.
.
23. New England - Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas

I get the pick, but no chance Orakpo falls to 23. None. LZ has him going to a 3-4 defense so he obviously had him fall because he doesn't think he will fit the 4-3. I disagree. Orakpo is one of the top two weak side DE pass rushers in this draft (only Brown is potentially better, I think). His ability against the run is not a strength, but he is serviceable enough in that area that it is not a weakness either.
.
.
27. Indianapolis - Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU

I thought Indianapolis loved speed on defense? Jackson will make a great strong side DE, but he is a run stuffer. Doesn't do much as far as pass rush. Had 8 sacks as a soph, but then 3.5 as a junior, and 4.5 as a senior.

Everything else looks great. I especially like the Pettigrew and Laurinaitis picks.

nunusguy
01-22-2009, 12:03 PM
LOL, Jerry is not an Amobi clone at all. He's a very similar type of DT as Amobi, but the pick of AO was purely based on the kids upside and potential.

Jerry is not a 2nd round DT, he's the best UT in the draft and definitely worth a 1st rd pick. I'd even say he would come in and be better at stopping the run and rushing the passer than Amobi is right now.

I was where yall were sitting a while ago. I don't want another UT, we've got that. I want a Raji or maybe even a Brace later on. But that's not what this DL coach does. He doesn't have huge guys to eat up space, he has all four D-linemen rushing into the backfield practically every play. Brace, Okam aren't those guys. If we're going to pick a DT on the 1st day, he's going to be a guy that can get in the backfield.

Jerry would be a good pick. Not my favorite, but all the guys we really want will probably be gone and Jerry would be BPA. Amobi and Jerry would most likely start next to each other with Travis a backup.

Is Cushing starting to come back up the boards now? I thought that guy got injured every other play.

I will add Vontae Davis could be an intruiging selection.
I know you like you're guy, he's from your school, but we've got not one but 2 first round Draft picks who are already of the same style/type, i.e., there all basically one-gap DTs. And based upon from I've seen, Jerry is clearly the best of the three. But the Texans just don't have so much
talent that they can afford the luxury of that kind of redunduncy, even if Jerry is the BPA at #15.
If LZs Board were to really play out that way in April, there's atleast a half dozen players I'd take before Jerry, to maybe include even one or 2 offensive prospects.

Ole Miss Texan
01-22-2009, 01:39 PM
I know you like you're guy, he's from your school, but we've got not one but 2 first round Draft picks who are already of the same style/type, i.e., there all basically one-gap DTs. And based upon from I've seen, Jerry is clearly the best of the three. But the Texans just don't have so much
talent that they can afford the luxury of that kind of redunduncy, even if Jerry is the BPA at #15.
If LZs Board were to really play out that way in April, there's atleast a half dozen players I'd take before Jerry, to maybe include even one or 2 offensive prospects.

He's not my guy, my guy this year is Raji. :) (Patrick Willis in '07 and Brandon Albert in '08) I think Jerry is the real deal and going to be a star in the NFL. With that said, I'm not a homer and will tell it like it is. I'd rather have Raji than Jerry. The fact we've got two 1st rd picks at DT already is a moot point to me. If their salaries were awful, it'd be a problem but I don't think having Amobi, Travis and Jerry at DT would hurt our team financially in the least bit.

There are two DT spots so you need two DTs to fill them. If the new DL coach can get Travis to turn the corner (which I think could be a possibility) then its a different story. Amobi has another few years to mature and he could be a beast. Travis is a FA after this year, i think? If he plays like crap, he's gone or he gets a much lower backup salary. I think he'd be a good backup. Which brings me to the next point... who do you have starting at DT? I see a lot of good depth on this team but no real starters.

I think spending another high draft pick on the DL (assuming they are worth their selection) is a MUST. We've already invested so much in the DL, we're trying to make it the stength and foundation of the D... why quit now? We can't be scared, we've got to get our players more help or else Amobi will never be able to shine. I think DT and DE are both needs.

Like you said though, there are several other players that could be viable picks at 15 if they decide not to go the DT route. Trade down this year could be a really good thing.

Jackie Chiles
01-22-2009, 01:50 PM
I pretty much agree with bah007, I would not mind the pick at all other than the fact that Orakpo is still on the board. I know Lance has some scouts he trusts that don't think Orakpo is a top 10-15 guy but I have to disagree. Now if he is off the board Jerry would be a fine pick. We would still need a pass rusher either in FA or the draft, and it would maybe be another year without a good safety prospect but if he looks like the best available you gotta do it. TJ is probably gone after 1 more season and with Jerry, Okoye, and Robinson rotating at DT we could have a real solid middle.

Errant Hothy
01-22-2009, 01:52 PM
Picks I disagree with:

4. Seattle - Mark Sanchez, QB, USC:

I think ESPN is getting the mock drafters to believe in the Sanchez hype. The guy isn't polished enough to go #4. Seattle would be a good place for him because he could sit behind Hasselbeck, but is this really their biggest need? I don't think so. I see Sanchez going 10-15. This looks like a reach to me.
.
.
10. San Francisco - Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech

Agree that the Niners should take him if he is there. I just don't see him dropping to 10.
.
.
15. Houston - Peria Jerry, DT, Ole Miss

I am very high on Jerry. I would love this pick...if Orakpo weren't still on the board. Jerry can do it all and is very underrated at this point.

16. San Diego (8-8) - Brian Cushing, LB, USC

Where does Cushing fit in a 3-4 defense? Does he have the speed to be an edge rusher?
.
.
20. Detroit - Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia

Seemed to me like Kevin Smith and Calvin Johnson were the only good players the Lions had last season. Now they will replace one of them? I don't buy that.
.
.
23. New England - Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas

I get the pick, but no chance Orakpo falls to 23. None. LZ has him going to a 3-4 defense so he obviously had him fall because he doesn't think he will fit the 4-3. I disagree. Orakpo is one of the top two weak side DE pass rushers in this draft (only Brown is potentially better, I think). His ability against the run is not a strength, but he is serviceable enough in that area that it is not a weakness either.
.
.
27. Indianapolis - Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU

I thought Indianapolis loved speed on defense? Jackson will make a great strong side DE, but he is a run stuffer. Doesn't do much as far as pass rush. Had 8 sacks as a soph, but then 3.5 as a junior, and 4.5 as a senior.

Everything else looks great. I especially like the Pettigrew and Laurinaitis picks.

Cushing played DE, ILB, OLB and some safety at USC. I think he's could enough to be an outstanding 4-3 SLB, or a 3-4 LB that could see some snaps at OLB and some at ILB. His ability to cover is way underrated at this point.

Of course all of this is my opinion, and I'd love for Cushing to play for the Texans.

bah007
01-22-2009, 02:06 PM
Cushing played DE, ILB, OLB and some safety at USC. I think he's could enough to be an outstanding 4-3 SLB, or a 3-4 LB that could see some snaps at OLB and some at ILB. His ability to cover is way underrated at this point.

Of course all of this is my opinion, and I'd love for Cushing to play for the Texans.

I think Cushing is underrated as well.

I just think he would make a better Sam in a 4-3 than a rush LB in a 3-4.

Ole Miss Texan
01-22-2009, 02:27 PM
I wouldn't be dissappointed with Cushing in the least bit. He seems like a well rounded linebacker, has the size and athleticism and can even move up to rush the passer on occasion.

Ideally, if we want him, I'd like to see us somehow trade down a few slots into the 20's maybe. Of course he could get taken, but he's a history of injuries that will cause GM's to raise the red flag. He would be able to play SLB and keep Demeco inside. If we could get a 3rd rounder with a small trade down maybe we could find that power back to compliment Slaton. And go after a DE or S in the 2nd and viceversa in the 3rd.

Errant Hothy
01-22-2009, 02:27 PM
I think Cushing is underrated as well.

I just think he would make a better Sam in a 4-3 than a rush LB in a 3-4.

I agree about him playing SAM, but I think he his ability to rush and cover could be used as justification for him to be drafted by a team who uses the 3-4. Cushing lining up in a zone blitz scheme could cause nightmares.

Errant Hothy
01-22-2009, 02:28 PM
I wouldn't be dissappointed with Cushing in the least bit. He seems like a well rounded linebacker, has the size and athleticism and can even move up to rush the passer on occasion.

Ideally, if we want him, I'd like to see us somehow trade down a few slots into the 20's maybe. Of course he could get taken, but he's a history of injuries that will cause GM's to raise the red flag. He would be able to play SLB and keep Demeco inside. If we could get a 3rd rounder with a small trade down maybe we could find that power back to compliment Slaton. And go after a DE or S in the 2nd and viceversa in the 3rd.

You got any detailed info on his injury history? I know he's had a few issue with his ankles and shoulders, but I can find the specifics needed to judge who seriosu of a concern the history might be.

D-ReK
01-22-2009, 02:46 PM
You got any detailed info on his injury history? I know he's had a few issue with his ankles and shoulders, but I can find the specifics needed to judge who seriosu of a concern the history might be.

Missed nearly half of his freshman season with a shoulder injury and was held out of some of the following seasons spring drills while recuperating...Sat out most of spring practice in 2007 with a strained hamstring then had arthroscopic surgery on his left knee...Also missed extensive action during the 2007 season with an ankle injury...Broke a bone in his right hand in 2008 and played with a cast but didn't miss any games
LINK (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/olb/Brian-Cushing.php)

He has also had steroid allegations, though those can be frivolous and he's never failed a test.

Before:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/sterling61989/cushingnow.jpg

One Year Later:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/sterling61989/cush.jpg

For the record, I don't buy the steroid allegations, but I present the photographic evidence in order to provide fair and balanced coverage.

LZ
01-22-2009, 03:21 PM
27. Indianapolis - Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU

I thought Indianapolis loved speed on defense? Jackson will make a great strong side DE, but he is a run stuffer. Doesn't do much as far as pass rush. Had 8 sacks as a soph, but then 3.5 as a junior, and 4.5 as a senior.

Everything else looks great. I especially like the Pettigrew and Laurinaitis picks.[/QUOTE]


Supposedly the Colts are going to go in a little different direction defensively as Caldwell is tired of watching the defense get gashed in the running game. I can see Tyson Jackson as a two down DE and then being bumped down inside to DT on passing downs while Mathis comes in at DE. Jackson would make them much more stout against the runs and there are some out there who think he might be able to gain 10 to 15 pounds and play the under tackle.

Blake
01-22-2009, 03:29 PM
I agree about him playing SAM, but I think he his ability to rush and cover could be used as justification for him to be drafted by a team who uses the 3-4. Cushing lining up in a zone blitz scheme could cause nightmares.

The Jags not so subtle tip on who they are taking. (Brian Cushing)

http://www.houstontexans.com/uploads/photo/thumbs/9694.jpg

J/K

mussop
01-25-2009, 10:43 PM
LINK (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/olb/Brian-Cushing.php)

He has also had steroid allegations, though those can be frivolous and he's never failed a test.

Before:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/sterling61989/cushingnow.jpg

One Year Later:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/sterling61989/cush.jpg

For the record, I don't buy the steroid allegations, but I present the photographic evidence in order to provide fair and balanced coverage.

From softy man titties to Swatzenager in one year. What a joke. The guy is overrated anyway. Hope we stay away from him.

threetoedpete
01-25-2009, 11:19 PM
I just see Orakpo as a multi dimensional player and believe the 4-3, 3-4 question is about Orakpo's draft value, more so if he can play one or the other. Smart, fast and strong go a long way in overcoming adversity in this league.

If Raji were selected at #15, I would not be complaining.

So Orakpo starts out as the Texas rover linebacker....covering the RB's, tight ends, and slot guys the big twelve features his freshman and sophmore years.
Drops down and dominates just about every OLT he cuts trails with....the one he doesn't is currently sky rocketing up the draft boards.....Smith.

He's 265 ...now. He out lifts everyone on the team now.....He has some of the longest arms and biggest hands in the draft class now.....yeah the guys a real crap soot. Hey he's plug and play KT.

Just be glad it's not my call. I'd sale the farm to move up and get him. There's a Raji on the board every draft. Guys like Orakpo...guys that have the numbers that indicate they will be dominate players, only come around once in a while.


Not banging Raji. If we take him at the fifteen he'd be a good clean pick. But he isn't going to put the defense on his back and drag them into the top fifteen.

And if Zerlien was worth a damn he would of already posted this is the most talented group of centers to come down the pike in a very long time. I haven't researched it yet....but maybe since the merger. And three of those center guys no one is talking about just punked Raji and Brace in the Senior Bowl. And that there thingy is the unvarnished truth. Know what I mean by punked ?


http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2008/mock2329.htm

bah007
01-25-2009, 11:29 PM
Orakpo sat out the Baylor game pete.

He didn't get his chance to dominate Smith this year.

threetoedpete
01-25-2009, 11:36 PM
From softy man titties to Swatzenager in one year. What a joke. The guy is overrated anyway. Hope we stay away from him.

they call that there thingy Male Hormose Syndrom. gynecomastia

http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/gynecomastia

http://www.healthline.com/adamcontent/gynecomastia?utm_medium=ask&utm_source=smart&utm_campaign=article&utm_term=Breast+Enlargement+In+Men&ask_return=Gynecomastia

So are you posting he has some baggage ?

threetoedpete
01-25-2009, 11:37 PM
Orakpo sat out the Baylor game pete.

He didn't get his chance to dominate Smith this year.

not last year.

YoungTexanFan
01-25-2009, 11:44 PM
pete, I think you have lost it. honestly. I find it so hard to comprehend your posts anymore. It's beyond just not agreeing with you. You are just coming from left field on some things man.

bah007
01-25-2009, 11:46 PM
not last year.

That's true.

But he was playin on a bum knee cuz of that cheap shot he took vs Arkansas St.

Not trying to bash Smith in any fashion, btw. Best o lineman in the conference.

threetoedpete
01-25-2009, 11:52 PM
pete, I think you have lost it. honestly. I find it so hard to comprehend your posts anymore. It's beyond just not agreeing with you. You are just coming from left field on some things man.

No I under stand....Ray got a FF Saturday and you love the physical presence he brings....I got it. But paying two Middle line backers top thirty two money is what is out in left field here. If you want to move Ryans out just say so. Is Ray better than Ryans? Or are you going to pay two Middle line backers top thirty three money ? Inquiring minds wish to know ? It just makes no damn sense YTF. Your gamble here is this guy will be able to flip his hips and run with the Dallas Clarks of the NFL world. And I'm saying when pigs fly. We'll see next month at the combine. Now if you're going to drop the guy at rush end.....

mexican_texan
01-25-2009, 11:52 PM
Smith looked solid in the Senior Bowl practices I watched. He looked leaps and bounds better than Oher from what I saw.

DiehardChris
01-25-2009, 11:53 PM
Why didn't Michael Johnson play?

bah007
01-25-2009, 11:55 PM
Why didn't Michael Johnson play?

He dropped out of the practices with a hurt elbow or something I think...

bah007
01-25-2009, 11:56 PM
Smith looked solid in the Senior Bowl practices I watched. He looked leaps and bounds better than Oher from what I saw.

It's hard to judge the mental aspect of these players in a game like that because the schemes are so limited.

But physically, Smith has it.

mexican_texan
01-26-2009, 12:01 AM
LINK (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/olb/Brian-Cushing.php)

He has also had steroid allegations, though those can be frivolous and he's never failed a test.

Before:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/sterling61989/cushingnow.jpg

One Year Later:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/sterling61989/cush.jpg

For the record, I don't buy the steroid allegations, but I present the photographic evidence in order to provide fair and balanced coverage.
An easy way to see if a guy is using steroids is to look at their necks. They'll be swollen, but not from muscle or fat. I can't get a clear view from this angle.

Here's Roger Clemens in a sort of before and after, but you can get a better example from Sly:

http://www.stallonezone.com/imgs/news/2007/Nov/111607sly_roger_clemens.jpg
http://cavenger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/clemens1.jpg



*Note: i get this information from a research paper I did in one of my English classes. It's possible this theory applies only to anabolic steroids, whereas guys are using a ton of stuff the FDA doesn't know about yet. What I do know for a fact is that JFK, who used steroids for medicinal purposes, had that sort of build up in his face.

Lucky
01-26-2009, 06:28 AM
Smith looked solid in the Senior Bowl practices I watched. He looked leaps and bounds better than Oher from what I saw.
Jason Smith wasn't at the Senior Bowl.

mexican_texan
01-26-2009, 09:12 AM
Jason Smith wasn't at the Senior Bowl.
He wasn't? Mayock was showing film of him

Blake
01-26-2009, 09:24 AM
He wasn't? Mayock was showing film of him

He, Orakpo, Laurinaitis, Curry, and 1 or 2 others were the big names missing.

mexican_texan
01-26-2009, 09:25 AM
Jason Smith wasn't at the Senior Bowl.
It appears he wasn't. I gotta go check the DVR to see who I was looking at then. Who has a helmet like Baylor's?

Blake
01-26-2009, 09:28 AM
It appears he wasn't. I gotta go check the DVR to see who I was looking at then. Who has a helmet like Baylor's?

OT N 64
William Beatty UConn

OT N 68
Xavier Fulton Illinois

OT N 79
Phil Loadholt Oklahoma

OT S 76
Troy Kropog Tulane

OT S 77
Jason Watkins Florida

OT S 74
Michael Oher Mississippi

Interior players.

C N 51
Alex Mack California

C N 60
Max Unger Oregon

C N 72
Ryan Shuman Virginia Tech

C S 59
Antoine Caldwell Alabama

C S 60
Eric Wood Louisville

C S 63
Jonathan Luigs Arkansas

OG N 63
Kraig Urbik Wisconsin

OG N 66
Andy Levitre Oregon State

OG N 76
Trevor Canfield Cincinnati

OG S 71
Tyronne Green Auburn

OG S 75
Anthony Parker Tennessee

OG S 79
Herman Johnson LSU

nunusguy
01-26-2009, 09:29 AM
He, Orakpo, Laurinaitis, and 1 or 2 others were the big names missing.
Georgia Tech DE Michael Johnson was also absent I believe ?
There's always a few big names eligible to attend who don't, based on their theory (and their handlers) that they've got more to lose by playing than to gain, for whatever reason(s) ? And I think that makes sense. It's all business for them at this point.
The absense of Laurinaitis really suprised me though ?

mussop
01-26-2009, 09:51 AM
Georgia Tech DE Michael Johnson was also absent I believe ?
There's always a few big names eligible to attend who don't, based on their theory (and their handlers) that they've got more to lose by playing than to gain, for whatever reason(s) ? And I think that makes sense. It's all business for them at this point.
The absense of Laurinaitis really suprised me though ?

Bad, bad, bad move by M Johnson. Even with a good combine I bet he falls late first at best.

mussop
01-26-2009, 09:52 AM
they call that there thingy Male Hormose Syndrom. gynecomastia

http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/gynecomastia

http://www.healthline.com/adamcontent/gynecomastia?utm_medium=ask&utm_source=smart&utm_campaign=article&utm_term=Breast+Enlargement+In+Men&ask_return=Gynecomastia

So are you posting he has some baggage ?

Are you drinking again TTP?

Texan_Bill
01-26-2009, 09:57 AM
Cushing =
http://www.brian-bosworth.biographyinfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/brian-bosworth.jpg

Errant Hothy
01-26-2009, 10:02 AM
Cushing =
http://www.brian-bosworth.biographyinfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/brian-bosworth.jpg

Except that Cushing has nothing near the hype that Boz did.

beerlover
01-26-2009, 10:51 AM
FYI- after watching the Senior Bowl I'll bet LZ downgrades Peria Jerry. I would be sick if the Texans used the 15th pick on him, I suppose if they trade down somewhere in the 20's I could live with it depending on what they aquire in return. It's very tricky evaulating DT's. they need to be challenged against NFL type talent to guesstimate how effective they might be @ the next level. for the most part a talent like Raji or Jerry can dominate 90% of the College talent, its that other 10% that worrys me :shades:

mussop
01-26-2009, 11:40 AM
FYI- after watching the Senior Bowl I'll bet LZ downgrades Peria Jerry. I would be sick if the Texans used the 15th pick on him, I suppose if they trade down somewhere in the 20's I could live with it depending on what they aquire in return. It's very tricky evaulating DT's. they need to be challenged against NFL type talent to guesstimate how effective they might be @ the next level. for the most part a talent like Raji or Jerry can dominate 90% of the College talent, its that other 10% that worrys me :shades:

Why would he downgrade Peria after the Senior Bowl? He had a good week IMO. To many of you are putting too much imphasis on the actual game. The practice is way more telling than an allstar game play.

beerlover
01-26-2009, 11:52 AM
Why would he downgrade Peria after the Senior Bowl? He had a good week IMO. To many of you are putting too much imphasis on the actual game. The practice is way more telling than an allstar game play.

you must breakdown the tape. Peria seemed to dominate but on closer viewing he did not dominate everybody. thats the concern, when one particular player has the ability to shutdown someone considered to be the more elite talent. same thing happened to Raji so I'm not just picking on Peria, who I really like, its about being accurate in final grades as talent assesors. like I said game tape does not lie & if I know Lance when he gets time once he breaks it down his opinion will change based on the facts from this week in Mobile. really nothing more than that.

YoungTexanFan
01-26-2009, 11:54 AM
Why would he downgrade Peria after the Senior Bowl? He had a good week IMO. To many of you are putting too much imphasis on the actual game. The practice is way more telling than an allstar game play.

Because in the practices leading up to the game he apparently had struggles with the better NFL linemen. The guys who will start, or are expected to be able to start. In other words, he wasn't anything special against talent believed to be his equal in a drill that favored him more so than the OL.

YoungTexanFan
01-26-2009, 12:17 PM
you love the physical presence he brings....I got it.
Yes.

But paying two Middle line backers top thirty two money is what is out in left field here.
Why would it be two MLB? Also, Ryans wasn't a top 30 pick technically. Also, as I keep stating, Ryans was an OLB who adapted to the MLB role. If Rey Maualuga starts at SAM, he is thus a SAM. His role has thus adapted. We have then put our three best players onto the field together. Re-read my posts; I've never once suggested Maualuga come off the bench. I've stated that Ryans and Maualuga should play together. Thus, we wouldn't have two "top 30" MLB's.


If you want to move Ryans out just say so.
If it is best for the team, then yes. Why not be open to the idea of upgrading multiple positions with one pick? If the position precedence has been there before in a player, why shouldn't it be done? Either way, with both of them on the field, it is an upgrade.


Is Ray better than Ryans?
No. Ryans is an All-Pro NFL player. Rey Maualuga is a very good amateur prospect. This question itself is unfounded and begs the question. In other words, why ask it; the question is poor enough to be thrown out.


Or are you going to pay two Middle line backers top thirty three money ? Inquiring minds wish to know ? It just makes no damn sense YTF.
Well, I could probably come up with a handful of terms to better question it, but "inquiring" minds leaves a lot on the table. I've talked about this already. At this point you are simply repeating your confusion and hoping that an intelligent and reasoned response won't be given. Enough has been said about that as is, however.

Your gamble here is this guy will be able to flip his hips and run with the Dallas Clarks of the NFL world. And I'm saying when pigs fly. http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=1217565

You put far too much into what you don't understand. He ran a 4.5 coming out of HS according to the link provided. Re-watch the USC vs. tOSU game this year.

We'll see next month at the combine.
Yes.

Now if you're going to drop the guy at rush end.....
Was it not you who emphatically and specifically stated that Maualuga could not blitz? Was it not you who declared with certainty that he could not do what you are now actually implying he might best succeed at?

threetoedpete
01-26-2009, 01:30 PM
John McClain: I don't know why fans want Ryans moved. He's 6-1, 250. He's smart, instinctive and a leader. And he's not real fast. He's an MLB, not an OLB. He played hurt last season, too, and sitll led the team in tackles. I don't see him moving unless they have a MLB rated so high and if he's still on the board at 15, they'd have to take him.

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/01/join_mondays_live_chat_at_1130.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by threetoepete
Now if you're going to drop the guy at rush end.....

Was it not you who emphatically and specifically stated that Maualuga could not blitz? Was it not you who declared with certainty that he could not do what you are now actually implying he might best succeed at?

you are correct Einstein.

The guy that can do both will be the pick at fifteen. And it ain't ray.

TimeKiller
01-26-2009, 03:37 PM
Demeco Ryans is "not real fast"?

Fo cereal?

He only gets across one t.v. screen in 4 seconds? **** John McClain's opinion on speed.

There's nothing about Maualuga and Ryans in the same unit that sucks.

threetoedpete
01-26-2009, 03:45 PM
Why would he downgrade Peria after the Senior Bowl? He had a good week IMO. To many of you are putting too much emphasis on the actual game. The practice is way more telling than an all star game play.


Not as much as you are....that there thingy is a classic.

Honoring Earl 34
01-26-2009, 03:46 PM
Demeco Ryans is "not real fast"?

Fo cereal?

He only gets across one t.v. screen in 4 seconds? **** John McClain's opinion on speed.

There's nothing about Maualuga and Ryans in the same unit that sucks.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=16817&draftyear=2006&genpos=OLB

Demeco ran a 4.66 in 2006 plus he plays faster than his times .

mussop
01-26-2009, 03:50 PM
Not as much as you are....that there thingy is a classic.

What are you talking about????

bah007
01-26-2009, 03:51 PM
Not as much as you are....that there thingy is a classic.

Come on pete. You have to understand his point.

That game is watered down. The schemes are all very basic and you can't really highlight a lot of the players strengths in a situation like that.

Man on man is a good way to practice, but it isn't an honest simulation of a real game.

Honoring Earl 34
01-26-2009, 04:12 PM
Come on pete. You have to understand his point.

That game is watered down. The schemes are all very basic and you can't really highlight a lot of the players strengths in a situation like that.

Man on man is a good way to practice, but it isn't an honest simulation of a real game.

The one thing Jerry has going for him is he played well in the SEC .

mussop
01-26-2009, 04:21 PM
you must breakdown the tape. Peria seemed to dominate but on closer viewing he did not dominate everybody. thats the concern, when one particular player has the ability to shutdown someone considered to be the more elite talent. same thing happened to Raji so I'm not just picking on Peria, who I really like, its about being accurate in final grades as talent assesors. like I said game tape does not lie & if I know Lance when he gets time once he breaks it down his opinion will change based on the facts from this week in Mobile. really nothing more than that.



How funny I just found this.
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/01/qa_with_rob_rang_from_nfldraft.html

I really hope the Texans are able to do something other than add another DT in the first round. What did you think of Jerrry's performance in the game and did it change your thoughts of him being the Texan's pick at 15?

Thanks,

LZ As for Jerry, I haven't seen all of the game and I don't really get too worked up over it anyway. The practices are much more important.

threetoedpete
01-26-2009, 04:23 PM
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=16817&draftyear=2006&genpos=OLB

Demeco ran a 4.66 in 2006 plus he plays faster than his times .

I know he did Earl....but that was three years ago....watch him drop back and cover now. He can still do it.....barely. Might be the ankles. I'd say he's lost a step. He's put on more weight for sure.

mussop
01-26-2009, 04:27 PM
Not as much as you are....that there thingy is a classic.


??????????????????? Still dont know what you are talking about.

mexican_texan
01-26-2009, 10:20 PM
OT N 64
William Beatty UConn

OT N 68
Xavier Fulton Illinois

OT N 79
Phil Loadholt Oklahoma

OT S 76
Troy Kropog Tulane

OT S 77
Jason Watkins Florida

OT S 74
Michael Oher Mississippi

Interior players.

C N 51
Alex Mack California

C N 60
Max Unger Oregon

C N 72
Ryan Shuman Virginia Tech

C S 59
Antoine Caldwell Alabama

C S 60
Eric Wood Louisville

C S 63
Jonathan Luigs Arkansas

OG N 63
Kraig Urbik Wisconsin

OG N 66
Andy Levitre Oregon State

OG N 76
Trevor Canfield Cincinnati

OG S 71
Tyronne Green Auburn

OG S 75
Anthony Parker Tennessee

OG S 79
Herman Johnson LSU
Tulane guy might be it.