PDA

View Full Version : Receivers in Draft.........


THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
01-07-2005, 10:50 PM
I think that one of our biggest problems that no one has really mentioned is that...........we don't have a #2 reciever. Think about it. Corey Bradford is a speedy guy with no hands and Jabar Gaffney is more of the slot-3rd down type of guy. I think we should look into taking a receiver in the 2nd. I doubt that Bryon Edwards will last until the 13th, but if Mike Williams is there........I don't know where Mike Williams will be taken. In my opinion he is one of the Top 5 guys in this draft. With his year out of football, it could hurt his draft status. If he is still there at #13 which I doubt, but if he is we shouldn't even have to think about taking him. Just imagin AJ and WIlliams running around. It would improve Carr's numbers greatly and he would LOVE to have those 2 guys in one WR corps. Plus it would take presure off of our OL, Carr would be able to get the ball out quicker and teams would have to drop more guys back to play coverage instead of blitzing.

But who are some guys that could be in the 2nd round? Chris Henry from WVU might be their. This guy has loades of talent......but his attitude is a HUGE problem. I don't know if we could fix it, and if we can't we don't want him in our locker room. What about Throupe or whatever his name is from FSU? Parrish from Miami came out, I wonder what his value would be. What are some other guys out there?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-07-2005, 11:00 PM
We need a #1 TE more than we do a #2 WR.

astrofan
01-07-2005, 11:50 PM
Big Play Trey Haverty (http://texastech.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/haverty_trey00.html) is the best reciever coming out this year, hands down
77 catches 1019 yards with a walkon QB and the best reciever in college stealing his numbers (hicks had 76 for 1177 and 13 tds)
i'll admit that he has to play almost half of his games against the cupcakes (aTm, university of austin, choklahoma and the orange aggies) of the big twelve south (not his fault), but he did have 8 catches 147 yards against the sissies from berkeley ranked 4 overall from the super conference known as the pac ten
he has the size and speed to be effective in the NFL and the ethic and character to be effective on a dom capers team

that being said...
Matt Jones will be on the board for a long time
he said he would change positions if that was what it took to play in the NFL
he would be a slot reciever, but I don't mind the slot being third or fourth in the distribution breakdown

angry 'dre
TE/RB
RB/TE
2nd outside reciever (gaffney, armstrong, starling)
slot (jones, armstrong)

until we get some pass protection we will probably see too many passes to the backs, but another reciever will not fix that

between gaffney, armstrong, and starling we should have enough for our style

in the article about jones they also mention the big fella from northern colorado and n. glover as sleeper recievers

Fiddy
01-08-2005, 10:43 AM
Gaffney was excellent this year. He had a strech of 3 games where he had 80 yards or more (we were 2-1 in those game). His only downfall was that he disappeared late because Carr kept taking a beating so Carr changed his read from AJ-Gaff-Bradford-Davis to AJ-Davis. Gaff also averaged more yards per catch this year then AJ. Gaff is an excellent number 2.

pskinny
01-08-2005, 01:15 PM
Gaffney was excellent this year. He had a strech of 3 games where he had 80 yards or more (we were 2-1 in those game). His only downfall was that he disappeared late because Carr kept taking a beating so Carr changed his read from AJ-Gaff-Bradford-Davis to AJ-Davis. Gaff also averaged more yards per catch this year then AJ. Gaff is an excellent number 2.

I disagree. He's an excellent #3 receiver. He'll never put up numbers like Reggie Wayne, Plaxico Buress, Issac Bruce, Drew Bennet just to name a few "excellent" #2's. But I don't disagree that Gafney had a good year which could have been better had Carr had time to find him more often.

In my perfect world, Joppru comes back next year and finally contributes, we address the O-line and D-line through free agency, move Wong inside, start Peek, and we take Mike Williams in the first round.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-08-2005, 01:32 PM
Big Play Trey Haverty (http://texastech.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/haverty_trey00.html) is the best reciever coming out this year, hands down



puff puff pass

Haverty couldn't carry Mike Williams' jock.

Vinny
01-08-2005, 02:27 PM
I disagree. He's an excellent #3 receiver. He'll never put up numbers like Reggie Wayne, Plaxico Buress, Issac Bruce, Drew Bennet just to name a few "excellent" #2's. But I don't disagree that Gafney had a good year which could have been better had Carr had time to find him more often.

In my perfect world, Joppru comes back next year and finally contributes, we address the O-line and D-line through free agency, move Wong inside, start Peek, and we take Mike Williams in the first round.Most of you guys have no patience. You compare these guys but don't see that they didn't produce much early in their careers either. Bennett and Wayne didn't start producing "excellent" numbers till their 3rd and 4th seasons. Drew didn't catch over 33 passes in one year until year 4. Burress only averages 52 catches a year and was drafted as a number 1 guy (top ten pick in the draft). Bruce has been the best of the guys you referenced but even he only averaged 62 catches a year his first 5 seasons in the most wide-open high flying offense in the NFL.

Gaffney is only 24 years old and is catching between 40-50 passes a year in a VERY conservative offense. He will only get better.

beerlover
01-08-2005, 02:44 PM
just to add to Vinny's takes, the Texans are invested heavily already @ WR. Look for more Armstrong next year (I think he has the potential to be our #2) & Gaffney continues to improve as the #3. Remember AJ has a big contract, the third overall pick in 2003 & in two more years we must get him resigned. Gaffney was a #2 pick in 2002 & he is also due a sizeable new contract soon. The dead money has been Bennie Joppru, in 2005 the Texans will owe him almost 800,000, he will need to rotate into some pt otherwise a TE will have to be aquired.

pskinny
01-08-2005, 03:17 PM
Most of you guys have no patience. You compare these guys but don't see that they didn't produce much early in their careers either. Bennett and Wayne didn't start producing "excellent" numbers till their 3rd and 4th seasons. Drew didn't catch over 33 passes in one year until year 4. Burress only averages 52 catches a year and was drafted as a number 1 guy (top ten pick in the draft). Bruce has been the best of the guys you referenced but even he only averaged 62 catches a year his first 5 seasons in the most wide-open high flying offense in the NFL.

Gaffney is only 24 years old and is catching between 40-50 passes a year in a VERY conservative offense. He will only get better.

I seriously hope your right. I guess I just don't see the playmaking ability in Gafney that these guys have. These guys all get the ball in the end zone, one thing Gafney doesn't. Though it's a valid arguement to say Gafney doesn't get the ball thrown his way down the field much. Whether that's due to Palmer not having confidence in his abilities or the offense not being able to execute, I don't know. Gafney had his best year this year by far, hopefully he continues to improve and proves me wrong.

astrofan
01-08-2005, 03:32 PM
puff puff pass

Haverty couldn't carry Mike Williams' jock.

big mike was surrounded by four/five star players and playing against one of the weakest divisions in college

big play trey is surrounded by one/two star players playing against the bigXII south (who play like pansies, but the media seems to respect them)... not that tech doesn't have four star players, we just don't let them play during games (daugherty, christian, harrell, r johnson, m johnson, filani)

if big mike, before he quit playing (or signed with an agent, whatever euphemism you want to use), played with hicks from sharpstown, he wouldn't have half the numbers he put up

Vinny
01-08-2005, 03:51 PM
I seriously hope your right. I guess I just don't see the playmaking ability in Gafney that these guys have. These guys all get the ball in the end zone, one thing Gafney doesn't. Though it's a valid arguement to say Gafney doesn't get the ball thrown his way down the field much. Whether that's due to Palmer not having confidence in his abilities or the offense not being able to execute, I don't know. Gafney had his best year this year by far, hopefully he continues to improve and proves me wrong.Hey, you may be right, but I just see the fire and replace mentality prevalent among our fans when the team stated early on that they are the draft and groom type of organization. If you are going to throw down examples of guys like Bennett you should look up his career stats first.

Personally, I think Gaffney is a guy who will have a career close to Muhsin Muhammad. He was the Gaffney of his team in the sense that his own fans never really appreciated him until this season.

Mistril48
01-08-2005, 04:07 PM
Most of you guys have no patience. You compare these guys but don't see that they didn't produce much early in their careers either ... Gaffney is only 24 years old and is catching between 40-50 passes a year ...Good point.

Posters want to say: "The Texans aren't an expansion team anymore!" which is true. It is also true that the Texans don't have any players on their roster that they drafted who have more than 3 years experience. Several starters they are counting on have 1 or 2 years experience. Many of these players (including Gaffney) will continue to develop as they gain experience and maturiity, just like every other team. The Texans will improve as the players develop that they already have.

Lucky
01-08-2005, 04:24 PM
Some interest stats regarding Gaffney in '04:

5.3 Yards After Catch average (YAC) - 8th among WRs with 40+ catches
21 1st down receptions on 3rd down - 7th in NFL (21 3rd down catches/21 1st downs)
82.9 1st down/catch % ( 34/41 ) - 6th in the NFL

These numbers indicate that Gaffney has produced when thrown to. His numbers are similar to Wayne's, except Wayne had 40% more balls thrown his way. Jabar is not going to beat CBs physically, as a Burress or Bennett will. His catches will come as a result of precision routes run in context of the offense. When a play breaks down, Gaffney will lose effectiveness. Like Carr, Gaffney will be a major benifactor when the Texans pass protection problems are solved.

pskinny
01-08-2005, 04:27 PM
Hey, you may be right, but I just see the fire and replace mentality prevalent among our fans when the team stated early on that they are the draft and groom type of organization. If you are going to throw down examples of guys like Bennett you should look up his career stats first.

Personally, I think Gaffney is a guy who will have a career close to Muhsin Muhammad. He was the Gaffney of his team in the sense that his own fans never really appreciated him until this season.


I was referring to this year. I mentioned guys who all had good seasons this year. If AJ got hurt I don't see Gafney doing half of what Muhammad did this season. 1400 yds and 16 TDs? Gafney will never put up those numbers. That's what the Texans should look for in a number 2. A guy who is good enough to step up and be the number 1 when needed. I think Mike Williams could be that guy. Gafney will always be a good 3rd option. I just don't know that he'll ever be good enough to effectively take the pressure off of AJ. He just doesn't have the size or strength. But that's my opinion.

Vinny
01-08-2005, 04:31 PM
I understand but you are still comparing Gaffney to guys who have already developed. Compare him to other 3 year guys if you want but you don't have a good argument with them. My point was that Gaffney is not behind them relative to their growth curve.

Gaffney is 6-1 210. He has plenty of size and he will continue to get stronger as his body is just now stopping its natural growth. Men continue to thicken until about 25.

bad
01-08-2005, 04:32 PM
I heavily doubt the Texans will be looking to draft a WR with their first pick seeing as how we still can't give our QB adequate protection and we don't yet have the personnel to terrorize the other team's signal caller. IMO Our biggest needs are OL, DL and another stud in the secondary.

Having said that, If Mike Williams is on the board at #13 (and not on trial or dead) I don't see how you pass him up. I wanted the guy last year (but wouldn't trade Dunta for anyone now).

Or we could wait a few years for his evil twin, Dwayne Jarrett. Watching Matt Leinart play pitch-and-catch to Super Scary Freshman Dwayne Jarrett this year reminded me a lot of watching Carson Palmer tossing apples to Williams.

WR's sure are getting big and scary. I sleep better at night knowing we have a stud corner from South Carolina watching our backs.

Grid
01-08-2005, 04:35 PM
WR's sure are getting big and scary. I sleep better at night knowing we have a stud corner from South Carolina watching our backs

and the biggest and scariest of em as well :). I cant wait till we have a good oline.. id be real surprised if our offense doesnt become one of the baddest O's in the AFC when that happens.

pskinny
01-08-2005, 04:47 PM
Some interest stats regarding Gaffney in '04:

5.3 Yards After Catch average (YAC) - 8th among WRs with 40+ catches
21 1st down receptions on 3rd down - 7th in NFL (21 3rd down catches/21 1st downs)
82.9 1st down/catch % ( 34/41 ) - 6th in the NFL

These numbers indicate that Gaffney has produced when thrown to. His numbers are similar to Wayne's, except Wayne had 40% more balls thrown his way. Jabar is not going to beat CBs physically, as a Burress or Bennett will. His catches will come as a result of precision routes run in context of the offense. When a play breaks down, Gaffney will lose effectiveness. Like Carr, Gaffney will be a major benifactor when the Texans pass protection problems are solved.

That's exactly what Jabar does well. Pick up first downs, and that's why he's important to the Texans. Why I believe he's a good third option. His niche is come in on passing situations, get open, and pick up the first.

Like I said before, if the Texans pass on WR in the draft, with another year experience I hope Gafney responds opposite AJ and proves me wrong. That would be wonderful.

Errant Hothy
01-08-2005, 06:27 PM
If Mike Williams runs the 4.6 or worse most people expect him to, I doubt he'll be worth the 13th pick.

THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
01-08-2005, 09:56 PM
So what if Mike Williams runs a 4.6? Anquan Boldin ran a 4.7 at the combine 2 years ago and the scouts said "OMG why is this kid here?" and look at the numbers he has posted up in Arizona with QBs throwing to him by the name of Jeff Blake and Josh McCown.

I never meant to say Gaffney wouldn't make it in the NFL. I just said that if we had another big time playmaker at WR to complimant Johson it could really open up things for David. If there is a defensive guy we want at #13 lets go get him, but if the decision is between trading down or taking Williams, well there shouldn't be much thought to it. I thought this guy was the best receiver in last years draft if he was in there.

I think Bradford is a free agent this offseason right? Or maybe its next, but if he is gone we don't want Armstrong being our #3. He makes some pretty good catches in tough situations, but from what I hear this guy can't run routes worth hardly anything. We don't want that guy as our #3.

What about Starling? Everybody was talking about him in the preseason and many said he had as much talent as AJ but was raw. He looked good in the preseason but never got the shot in the regular season. He played a lot of special teams, but I'm hoping he gets his chance next season, we could have something in this kid.

Errant Hothy
01-08-2005, 10:01 PM
So what if Mike Williams runs a 4.6? Anquan Boldin ran a 4.7 at the combine 2 years ago and the scouts said "OMG why is this kid here?" and look at the numbers he has posted up in Arizona with QBs throwing to him by the name of Jeff Blake and Josh McCown.

All well and good, but Boldin wasn't picked at 13 now was he? Not saying that Williams isn't good, just that he isn't the number 1 WR in the draft
at this point, plus he probaly isn't the type of WR we would be looking to draft.

Lucky
01-08-2005, 10:07 PM
If Mike Williams runs the 4.6 or worse most people expect him to, I doubt he'll be worth the 13th pick.
Michael Clayton averaged a 4.64 40 at the combine last year. Tampa Bay looked at the film, saw a football player, and drafted Clayton at #15 anyway. Michael rewarded them with a 80 reception, 1200 yard season.

Every season, the almighty 40 is debunked. Every offseason, it's resurrected.

Errant Hothy
01-08-2005, 10:14 PM
But the Bucs needed a receivers, not a single receiver (if WE even need that many); and the type of receiver we need is a burner, and after watching teh film several people noticed that Willams rarly pulled away from anybody, much less the "great" DBs of the Pac-10

bad
01-08-2005, 10:34 PM
...and after watching teh film several people noticed that Willams rarly pulled away from anybody, much less the "great" DBs of the Pac-10
Yeah but the beauty of the thing was that he didn't NEED to pull away from anyone in order to dominate a game. He didn't even need to be open - he'd just outjump and outmuscle anyone in his way then it would be on them to try and drag him down. Plus he can make the tough catches.

I think it's a moot point anyway. Williams will be gone by the time the Texans pick.

Errant Hothy
01-08-2005, 10:37 PM
Yeah but the beauty of the thing was that he didn't NEED to pull away from anyone in order to dominate a game. He didn't even need to be open - he'd just outjump and outmuscle anyone in his way then it would be on them to try and drag him down. Plus he can make the tough catches.

I think it's a moot point anyway. Williams will be gone by the time the Texans pick.


But we won't be able to out-anything most of the NFL DBs. I'm not saying he isn't a good receiver, just that I don't think a) he's worth the 13th pick and b) that he isn't the best type of reciever to fit the needs of the Texans. When/if Bradford we need another DEEP threat, not a possesion type receiver.

TexansCanes
01-09-2005, 01:24 AM
40 is very overrated for wr, if they can fly that just helps them, but a slow time shouldn't hurt them in my opinion. but i don't think bmw is the right wr for this team. just because carr looks to johnson and then dumps it off to davis doesn't mean that gaffney isn't a number 2 wr. their is a reason why we took him in the second round and if you watch him in college you would see why. big mike isn't the deep threat that is really missing. he have the all everything guy-johnson, the good hands guy-gaffney, now we need a solid speed guy.

fresno8
01-09-2005, 08:11 AM
I like Gaffney as our #3, I think he can turn into a Stokely like slot WR. He has good hands and runs good routes. I just don't see him as our #2 and taking away coverages from AJ. We need a Tyrone Calico/Ashlie Lelie like WR as our #2. Gaffney will have many good years for us once we get our line problems solved. He has developed nicely and is still young.

beerlover
01-09-2005, 08:15 AM
I like Gaffney as our #3, I think he can turn into a Stokely like slot WR. He has good hands and runs good routes. I just don't see him as our #2 and taking away coverages from AJ. We need a Tyrone Calico/Ashlie Lelie like WR as our #2. Gaffney will have many good years for us once we get our line problems solved. He has developed nicely and is still young.

i agree fresno, but what about Armstrong as the #2?

Fiddy
01-09-2005, 11:20 AM
We need a Tyrone Calico/Ashlie Lelie like WR as our #2.Funny you say that because Gaff's rookie year was almost twice as better than Calico's rookie year and Gaff was step for step with Lelie for career stats until this year when the Broncos decided to use Lelie more and while the Texans let Gaff disappear for games at a time...

Gaff was thrown at 68 times this year
Lelie was thrown at 101 times this year

I would love to see what Gaff could do with 101 balls thrown his way...

Lucky
01-09-2005, 11:50 AM
I would love to see what Gaff could do with 101 balls thrown his way...
Gaffney at 101 targets would project to 61-938-3

THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
01-09-2005, 10:51 PM
We don't need a speedster, we need a playmaker. Speedster and Playmaker are two different things. Don't get me wrong, a speedster can be a playmaker, but Mike Williams atlethic and phyiscal ablititys are so great, he is a natural playmaker. We have a guy in AJ who is going to stretch a defense. Mike Williams is a guy who can run the short slants and fight a little 5'10 corner for the ball. He could also be a major red zone target, somewhere I beleive we had little success at this season, if we could get there.

I agree that Gaffney is going to have a stellur carrer here, I just think he is better fitted as a #3 WR. You mention his days at Florida.......wasn't that still when Spurrier's fun and gun game was in the swamp? I just think we should give Carr one more target. Maybe that target is a TE I don't know. I'm jush not satisfied with AJ, DD, and JG. MW would make that combination a lot better.

fresno8
01-10-2005, 01:25 PM
i agree fresno, but what about Armstrong as the #2?
I'd like to see what Armstrong can do as a 2. He might be that guy. I haven't seen him enough to make that judgement. What I do know is he has made clutch catches and can run after the catch. Maybe I'm not being fair to Gaffney, but I just don't see him as a #2. He doesn't have the after the catch ability that I'd like in a 2, he does catch most balls and I can't complain about that. Until our O-line is solved we won't know what Gaffney and Armstrong can fully do for this offense and what their roles will be. I like Gaffney and Armstrong for the long run we have 2 young solid WR.

infantrycak
01-10-2005, 01:34 PM
Maybe I'm not being fair to Gaffney, but I just don't see him as a #2. He doesn't have the after the catch ability that I'd like in a 2, he does catch most balls and I can't complain about that.

Just an FYI--Gaffney actually had a higher yards after catch average than Armstrong this year, a higher percentage of his receptions were over 20 yards and his longest was 69 vs. 44. Now the playcalling certainly played a part in that. Armstrong seemed very underutilized in the 2nd half of the season.