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gtexan02
01-13-2009, 12:38 PM
I was replying to the Taylor Mays thread, when I came across something I find interesting:

The 4 remaining playoff teams have 4 of the top 5 safeties in the NFL roaming around back there. The remaining #5, probably Chris Hope, was on a team just knockced out.

1. Ed Reed
2. Troy Polamalu
3. Brian Dawkins
4. Adrian Wilson

A really talented safety allows a defense to do a lot of really, really good things in both the run game and passing game. And thats something we've been missing the last few years

TheRealJoker
01-13-2009, 01:45 PM
Bob Sanders isn't on your top 5 safety list?

gtexan02
01-13-2009, 01:46 PM
Bob Sanders isn't on your top 5 safety list?

Not this year. He only played in 5 or 6 games?

Texan JBZ
01-13-2009, 01:47 PM
Bob Sanders isn't on your top 5 safety list?

Maybe next year when he's healthy again. Not this past year.

Shaft75
01-13-2009, 02:03 PM
Not this year. He only played in 5 or 6 games?

That also helps the argument though. Sanders was out for awhile and the team slid substantially. Things might have been a little different for the Colts had Sanders been healthy all year.

Th only problem now is that Mays isn't coming out, so who will be the top safeties? I was saying William Moore would be a good selection, but will he get picked up before 15?

Texecutioner
01-13-2009, 02:10 PM
That also helps the argument though. Sanders was out for awhile and the team slid substantially. Things might have been a little different for the Colts had Sanders been healthy all year.

Th only problem now is that Mays isn't coming out, so who will be the top safeties? I was saying William Moore would be a good selection, but will he get picked up before 15?

No way Moore gets picked before 15. I'm not that high on Moore. He would be a good player to have and all, but I'm thinking that we go LB right now considering what I think will be available at 15 unless Maabin is there.

Polo
01-13-2009, 02:15 PM
I think in any given year you can point to the four teams playing for the conference championship and find a position that they are all strong at.

I don't think having a premiere safety is any more important than having a premiere (insert any position here)

TexansSeminole
01-13-2009, 02:17 PM
I agree with that good safety play is very important, however we should not reach on players in the draft or FA.

There are some good safeties in this draft with 2nd or 3rd round grades.

Shaft75
01-13-2009, 02:21 PM
No way Moore gets picked before 15. I'm not that high on Moore. He would be a good player to have and all, but I'm thinking that we go LB right now considering what I think will be available at 15 unless Maabin is there.

There was only one LB drafted in the 1st round last year, Keith Rivers. But in previous years there have been some good ones like Willis, Beason, Hawk, Timmons and you can almost count Ryans. I wouldn't be against taking a good LB.

Texecutioner
01-13-2009, 02:33 PM
There was only one LB drafted in the 1st round last year, Keith Rivers. But in previous years there have been some good ones like Willis, Beason, Hawk, Timmons and you can almost count Ryans. I wouldn't be against taking a good LB.

Check out Curry and Muleuga. Seminole posted a bunch of Curry's highlights in another thread. Curry looks spectacular.

nunusguy
01-13-2009, 02:50 PM
I don't consider a safety a top priority here with the Texans - it's all about
developing a real pass rush once and for all for the Texans. Whatever that takes, get it done then the rest of the D will fall into place and perform better.

gtexan02
01-13-2009, 02:54 PM
I don't consider a safety a top priority here with the Texans - it's all about
developing a real pass rush once and for all for the Texans. Whatever that takes, get it done then the rest of the D will fall into place and perform better.

Its hard to generate a pass rush when opposing defenses can dink and dunk there way around the field or throw quick hitters out to WRs on quick outs and slants. If we had good safeties who could actually be respnosible for picking up deep threats, we could afford to keep our CBs actually close to the LOS instead of requiring they give a 10 yard cushion

Fox
01-13-2009, 06:05 PM
I think in any given year you can point to the four teams playing for the conference championship and find a position that they are all strong at.

I don't think having a premiere safety is any more important than having a premiere (insert any position here)

I agree with this. I'm incredulous of the strength of connection between safety and playoff success. As Polo pointed out, I think this is a procrustean fallacy - take the divisional playoff teams out of any year and you can find a common link that may or may not be the reason they made it that far. When evaluating the importance of a premier safety, I think the crucial indicator of success is the premier part. Safeties don't make defenses great, great players make defenses great (regardless of position).

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2009, 06:20 PM
both safeties need to be replaced, need help in run support and how often have we seen a safety help a CB on a deep ball

PHAROAH
01-13-2009, 08:06 PM
good safety play allow teams to get exotic with blitz packages and that is our problem we can't deploy that many packages.

wolf123
01-13-2009, 08:12 PM
both safeties need to be replaced, need help in run support and how often have we seen a safety help a CB on a deep ball

Wilson played very well and has been the best safety we've ever had.

gtexan02
01-13-2009, 08:19 PM
We get one good year out of our guys. Coleman had that one good year, then Demps, now Wilson

wolf123
01-13-2009, 08:20 PM
We get one good year out of our guys. Coleman had that one good year, then Demps, now Wilson

Coleman was old and demps was never any good.

bah007
01-13-2009, 08:34 PM
good safety play allow teams to get exotic with blitz packages and that is our problem we can't deploy that many packages.

Good cornerback play does more for a defense's ability to blitz than safety play does.

When you blitz, more times than not you have to go man on the outside. We have never had good enough CB play to do this consistently.

gtexan02
01-13-2009, 09:15 PM
Coleman was old and demps was never any good.

?? Not sure what you're remembering...

Coleman was 29 during the 2003 season when he had 70 tackles and 7 INTs. I'd call that a pretty good season

Demps last year was voted as a pro-bowl alternate

welsh texan
01-13-2009, 09:30 PM
Good cornerback play does more for a defense's ability to blitz than safety play does.

When you blitz, more times than not you have to go man on the outside. We have never had good enough CB play to do this consistently.

We have Dunta back and fully fit by September, Reeves improving technically and with plenty of physical ability, plus Bennett and Molden who will both hopefully improve with time.

If we can lock down the safety position, and coach our young and talented CB corps to push their recievers to the middle of the field into some good Safety help, then that combined with a better and more aggressive pass rush is going to improve us way more than any incremental upgrade we can get at Corner whilst remaining mediocre over the top.

Sure, take a second day corner as a project to replace Faggins, but both Safety positions and DE have to be the priorities surely.

Wolf
01-13-2009, 09:48 PM
?? Not sure what you're remembering...

Coleman was 29 during the 2003 season when he had 70 tackles and 7 INTs. I'd call that a pretty good season

Demps last year was voted as a pro-bowl alternate

who you quoted, I thought it was me at first and thought when did I post and how much beer did I drink and why don't I remember this ? LOL

First thing that pops in my mind of safety and Texans is when Gary Walker was flexing in the endzone after the cowboys game long long time ago.. I just can't think of real safeties that we have had
(can't find a picture of it either)

infantrycak
01-13-2009, 10:35 PM
?? Not sure what you're remembering...

Coleman was 29 during the 2003 season when he had 70 tackles and 7 INTs. I'd call that a pretty good season

2003 Coleman was still at CB. He moved to FS for the 2004 season and then played like a ballerina.

gtexan02
01-13-2009, 11:07 PM
2003 Coleman was still at CB. He moved to FS for the 2004 season and then played like a ballerina.

Crud you're right. I thought 03 was the year he had that pick against KC and I thought that was a year at S also. His 04 fall-off would correlate well with my "One and Done" theory on our safety play as of late, but if he played CB in 03 it changes it

dalemurphy
01-13-2009, 11:25 PM
good safety play allow teams to get exotic with blitz packages and that is our problem we can't deploy that many packages.

I think that many of our problems with the safety position hasn't specifically been the talent back there but the fact that we've been unable to coach up our athletes to play the position well. You know, Polamalu, BSanders, CHope aren't the greatest athletes. However, they understand the defense and the game in general very well. That position has the greatest freedom, usually, to make plays. Assignments for a safety are broader. Almost every other position, you line up in front of a guy or a gap that you're responsible for. Safeties have the unique task to react to what is happening in front of them and make a play. Hopefully we get a good one but also I'm hopeful that our coaching changes will dramatically improve our safety play.

bah007
01-13-2009, 11:49 PM
We have Dunta back and fully fit by September, Reeves improving technically and with plenty of physical ability, plus Bennett and Molden who will both hopefully improve with time.

If we can lock down the safety position, and coach our young and talented CB corps to push their recievers to the middle of the field into some good Safety help, then that combined with a better and more aggressive pass rush is going to improve us way more than any incremental upgrade we can get at Corner whilst remaining mediocre over the top.

Sure, take a second day corner as a project to replace Faggins, but both Safety positions and DE have to be the priorities surely.

I'm not saying don't go get a safety. I think we do need to upgrade the position.

But the comment I was addressing was regarding blitzing. When you blitz, you put more pressure on the CBs than the safety. If we want an aggressive blitzing scheme (ala the Eagles defense) we have to get better at CB.

I like a couple of the safeties in this draft (not Moore, but some of the 2nd round guys).

Goldensilence
01-14-2009, 12:16 AM
Its hard to generate a pass rush when opposing defenses can dink and dunk there way around the field or throw quick hitters out to WRs on quick outs and slants. If we had good safeties who could actually be respnosible for picking up deep threats, we could afford to keep our CBs actually close to the LOS instead of requiring they give a 10 yard cushion

Agree on that part. I do think some of the guys Ed Reed, Polamalu and Brian Dawkins are elite but damn if they also don't have sold guys playing ahead of them. Good LBers are key to keeping guys from dinking and dunking on you. To me, this defense took light year steps ahead when Adibi got on the field and we weren't strapped covering RBs and TEs quite as bad. If Bush's style follows more old Bronco's defense I'd look for us to grab a guy closer to Steve Atwater then Ed or Troy.

dalemurphy
01-14-2009, 12:31 AM
I'm not saying don't go get a safety. I think we do need to upgrade the position.

But the comment I was addressing was regarding blitzing. When you blitz, you put more pressure on the CBs than the safety. If we want an aggressive blitzing scheme (ala the Eagles defense) we have to get better at CB.

I like a couple of the safeties in this draft (not Moore, but some of the 2nd round guys).


A couple things: I actually think CB is a position of strength. We have 3 CBs that are good enough to start for a number of teams in the NFL. We can argue about how many but let's not. They each young and should improve- Dunta's improvement a result of his health. And, we have a very gifted 2nd year player that has proven he's a football player on ST this season. Anyway, I feel good about the group.

I think we've had 2 problems when we blitz:

1. We don't disguise it well nor is it very inventive.
2. Individually, the players don't do it well

I think both of those problems are a direct result of coaching. Since Bush considers Buddy Ryan to be a significant influence on him, I'm hopeful those things will change.

TimeKiller
01-14-2009, 07:47 AM
I think we've had 2 problems when we blitz:

1. We don't disguise it well nor is it very inventive..
What are you talking about? What about when Demeco acts like he's gonna blitz and then backs off 3 times a game? Like anybody can see through that...

:cricket:

....seriously though, of all the DBs we have on the roster, ONE of them has to be decent at safety. Wilson was, okay how 'bout two decent safeties?

infantrycak
01-14-2009, 09:04 AM
Bush's two positions he mentioned in his 610 am interview this morning were someone to go opposite Mario and safety (didn't specify which one).

gtexan02
01-14-2009, 09:42 AM
Bush's two positions he mentioned in his 610 am interview this morning were someone to go opposite Mario and safety (didn't specify which one).

Excellent. He must read the boards

El Tejano
01-14-2009, 09:42 AM
The argument is also valid when you look at the glory years of the Oilers ( the seven year run of playoff appearances). They had good play making safeties in Bubba McDowell, Bo Orlando, and Marcus Robertson. That defense could always blitz with their front four ( Sean Jones, Ray Childress, Doug Smith, William Fuller).

InterestedJeff
01-14-2009, 11:43 AM
IMO Saftey is the MOST glaring need for our defense. It is the only position that we havent drafted on day one. I would say, after MLB, good saftey play is the one single position that can impact a defense. A FS is the most versitile position on the field. He can cover any position man to man. He can play in the box for run support. He can play midfield zone and he can blitz from any part of the field. Our saftey play was decent last year. Sadly enough, it was the best saftey play our team has ever had. I will be extremley disapointed if we dont upgrade this position ASAP.

BigBull17
01-14-2009, 11:57 AM
A couple things: I actually think CB is a position of strength. We have 3 CBs that are good enough to start for a number of teams in the NFL. We can argue about how many but let's not. They each young and should improve- Dunta's improvement a result of his health. And, we have a very gifted 2nd year player that has proven he's a football player on ST this season. Anyway, I feel good about the group.

I think we've had 2 problems when we blitz:

1. We don't disguise it well nor is it very inventive.
2. Individually, the players don't do it well

I think both of those problems are a direct result of coaching. Since Bush considers Buddy Ryan to be a significant influence on him, I'm hopeful those things will change.

God, when some of them blitz, they had to stop to ask directions. Or were so slow they never got near the QB. It was pathetic.

hadaad
01-14-2009, 01:24 PM
There was only one LB drafted in the 1st round last year, Keith Rivers. But in previous years there have been some good ones like Willis, Beason, Hawk, Timmons and you can almost count Ryans. I wouldn't be against taking a good LB.

Wasn't Mayo drafted early last year?

AnthonyE
01-14-2009, 05:52 PM
Wasn't Mayo drafted early last year?

10th overall I believe.

D-ReK
01-14-2009, 06:05 PM
Wasn't Mayo drafted early last year?

I believe Gholston was drafted as a LB also.

leebigeztx
01-14-2009, 09:10 PM
I think Wilson is a good safety. If I were the Texans, I would move molen to safty just like carolina moved godfrey to safety. Thee days of fs and ss are gone. Both safeties better be able o cover and tackle. They better be able to play man and deep hash or middlee. If they can't, the Y flex tight end, offset rb wil kill the defense. Dalla Clark, gates, tony, whitten, daniels, and k2 along with westbrook types put a lot of stress on your defense. That's why teams are looking for big colege corners to play safety. that's why I would move molden to safety.

RipTraxx
01-14-2009, 09:13 PM
I believe Gholston was drafted as a LB also.

That kid hasnt done anything since he got here.

ubecool454
01-15-2009, 07:01 AM
Bob Sanders isn't on your top 5 safety list?

Sanders is good but not in these guys class.

ubecool454
01-15-2009, 07:03 AM
No way Moore gets picked before 15. I'm not that high on Moore. He would be a good player to have and all, but I'm thinking that we go LB right now considering what I think will be available at 15 unless Maabin is there.

Linebacker is one spot where we are set at. With Adibi, Demeco, Diles coming back, Bentley I doubt we will be looking for a linebacker unless its in the 7th round. Tese guys are young and to good, so I look for Morlon Greenwood to probably be gone next season.

ubecool454
01-15-2009, 07:06 AM
I don't consider a safety a top priority here with the Texans - it's all about
developing a real pass rush once and for all for the Texans. Whatever that takes, get it done then the rest of the D will fall into place and perform better.

Good point..if you don't get that other pass rushing defensive end then we are going to have that stud safety to shore up that secondary.

HOU-TEX
01-15-2009, 08:51 AM
Linebacker is one spot where we are set at. With Adibi, Demeco, Diles coming back, Bentley I doubt we will be looking for a linebacker unless its in the 7th round. Tese guys are young and to good, so I look for Morlon Greenwood to probably be gone next season.

Adibi = Needs to add weight. Hasn't proven to be able to stay on the field.

Diles = Decent against the run. Too slow, unable to keep up in pass coverage.

Bentley = Solid, but not our permanent answer.

Thompson = Dude had a hammy issue all season and was unable to prove anything.

So No, we are not set at the LB position. We need speed at the OLB position and Adibi would be great if he proves he can stay on the field. D-Ryans is an awesome LB, but lacks a little speed and coverage ability. If we were to get a couple OLB's with some speed it'd make up for what D-Ryans lacks.

My .02

Texan JBZ
01-15-2009, 09:29 AM
Adibi = Needs to add weight. Hasn't proven to be able to stay on the field.

Diles = Decent against the run. Too slow, unable to keep up in pass coverage.

Bentley = Solid, but not our permanent answer.

Thompson = Dude had a hammy issue all season and was unable to prove anything.

So No, we are not set at the LB position. We need speed at the OLB position and Adibi would be great if he proves he can stay on the field. D-Ryans is an awesome LB, but lacks a little speed and coverage ability. If we were to get a couple OLB's with some speed it'd make up for what D-Ryans lacks.

My .02

Yeah, I agree with this. I started another thread about Michael Boley from the Falcons. He's an UFA and it's said that the Falcons aren't bringing him back. I think he'd be the perfect fit for the new scheme. Also, someone mentioned Karlos Dansby from the Cardinals. He's an awesome player, and has a connection with Bush from his days at Arizona. Either one of these players added alongside Demeco would be an instant upgrade at the position.

threetoedpete
01-15-2009, 11:05 AM
I don't consider a safety a top priority here with the Texans - it's all about
developing a real pass rush once and for all for the Texans. Whatever that takes, get it done then the rest of the D will fall into place and perform better.

Curry may be the top player on the board considering how clean he is. With all of the QBs going back don't be surprised if the the lions can't get a move down deal he isn't the pick. Can't take Crabtree. And as great as Andre Smith is in the rushing attack....he isn't exactly a dancing bear. Curry 's athleticism and numbers suggest that he can play any position at LB, and in any alignment in the NFL. Aaron Curry is a true building block for any defense and for any team who has been a perennial bottom feeder. There is a reason all of these BMOC's (big men on campus) went back. You got several teams at the top no one except Sanchez & Georgia QB Matthew Stafford, wants to play for. No matter how much money is involved.

I'm with you nuns. They've got a herd of young DBs now.

http://www.draftstock.com/site_main/content/view/60/53/
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Player+Rankings/2008/08RegOfPos1220.htm

Rashad Johnson, William Moore, Louis Delmas at Free Safety. And the switch hitter...Taylor Mays. Might be free safety,might be a SS, might be a Will backer.

So we're going to find out pretty quick. And your logic is so sound it can't be argued with....same arguement I used when we needed the OLT.

Look at this.These guys in the play offs have that....we need that also.

How about this.....do you expect any of these guys no matter how talented, to lock on to a receiver for 3.5 seconds and defend him ? Against Payton Manning ? Against any top flight NFL QB ? Already spent draft capitol on the position in the last two drafts.

William Moore. NFW. He doesn't tackle. He's productive....but he 's a bouncer.
Doesn't lock up. Doesn't take good angles. No way Jose. Let someone else over draft the guy. as soon as the scouts and the coaches check out this guys tape, he's off our board.

Rashad Johnson, Louis Delmas. Johnson had the benefit of having great guys playing in front of him at Bama. How's he going to do when he doesn't ? Elite Speed for a FS. I'd have no problem with a move down and taking a chance him. What you know for a fact about the guy is when he has opportunities, he makes the fricken play.

Delmas passes the eye ball test. Another Jacoby Jones guy. A raw Lump of clay waiting to be put on a turning wheel and re-molded by a NFL coach. He's a clean chalk board waiting to be great.

Taylor Mays. The numbers suggest he's going to be a hoss at the next level.
Fast enough to play free....big enough to be an enforcer at strong. 230 ? Three biscuits & gravy breakfast's away from being a Will backer ? I dunno. I don't know if he has the hip flip and the feet to be a FS. Don't know if he has the physicality to be a SS or a will baker. Most of the herd says he does.

Might be a bone thrown to the new DC. What I know for a fact is that Denver, over the last forty years, has only taken a Safety high twice. And only once in the first round.

To me, they've got to bang the De or the first step guy high with a second or
the first pick. Without a pass rush, we cannot win the division. No matter how great the safety talent is this draft, upgrading Greenwood or Weaver is priority numbero uno for me. Anything after that, like a safety, is gravy.

BigBull17
01-15-2009, 11:35 AM
I think Wilson is a good safety. If I were the Texans, I would move molen to safty just like carolina moved godfrey to safety. Thee days of fs and ss are gone. Both safeties better be able o cover and tackle. They better be able to play man and deep hash or middlee. If they can't, the Y flex tight end, offset rb wil kill the defense. Dalla Clark, gates, tony, whitten, daniels, and k2 along with westbrook types put a lot of stress on your defense. That's why teams are looking for big colege corners to play safety. that's why I would move molden to safety.

Fred Bennett would make a better Saftey than Moulden IMO. There was a discussion about him having to move when he was drafted, if I remember correctly.



Linebacker is one spot where we are set at. With Adibi, Demeco, Diles coming back, Bentley I doubt we will be looking for a linebacker unless its in the 7th round. Tese guys are young and to good, so I look for Morlon Greenwood to probably be gone next season.

We have good depth, but we need one more starter calibur OLB.

threetoedpete
01-15-2009, 11:36 AM
Linebacker is one spot where we are set at. With Adibi, Demeco, Diles coming back, Bentley I doubt we will be looking for a linebacker unless its in the 7th round. Tese guys are young and to good, so I look for Morlon Greenwood to probably be gone next season.


Not so fast my friend.....You've got one who broke his own leg in practice. And one who only got in when they were desperate and thought every one was going to get fired. I'd say backer.....with the uncertainty at the position is a very high priority. Guy like Penn State DE Aaron Maybin from Penn St. makes a lot of sense.

Don't know if he can handle the point of attack. Don't know if he can stand up. What you do know about him is he has a tremendous first step. The kind of first step that can beat 90% of the right tackles in the league a couple of times a game. We're looking for that. Start him out as a situational guy. If he pans out you've got a great Sam with the ability to get there on a blitz. Might be rangy enough for a Will. Oh yeah, we're looking for that. If he transitions....he has the talent to be our next great pro bowl type player. And to get him with a fifteen pick....the potential is a bargin to me. They've got to have a better pass rush/playmakers to drag the defense out of the cellar.

leebigeztx
01-15-2009, 10:07 PM
Fred Bennett would make a better Saftey than Moulden IMO. There was a discussion about him having to move when he was drafted, if I remember correctly.





We have good depth, but we need one more starter calibur OLB.

Either way whether its Benett or Molden, I would move 1 to safety. If you really lok at guys who were big corners in collegeand transitioned to safety in pro's, its ok. That would allow the team to stay in base more which means less subs. If you look at the godfrey, he was a corner in college. Ronnie Lott, Rod Woodson, and recently Antrel Rolle and Tanard Jackson hae made the move to safety. Wilson was a corner in college as well and I really like him back there.

welsh texan
01-17-2009, 12:09 AM
OK stupid question time; 'Sam' & 'Will' - I take it this refers to weakside and strongside linebackers right?

Anyways, I'm a little bit nonplussed by the talent available to us with the #15, it doesn't seem like there is any sure-fire impact player likely to be there at our positions of need, perhaps we should be trading back again to pick up an extra 3rd if possible? We certainly made use of it last year.

Maybe then we could look at bringing in one or two future O-line starters with later picks as well as getting the D fixed??

Texan JBZ
01-17-2009, 12:19 AM
OK stupid question time; 'Sam' & 'Will' - I take it this refers to weakside and strongside linebackers right?

No such thing as a stupid question (sike)! Naw, you're correct. Sam and Will stand for Strongside and Weakside LBs.

welsh texan
01-17-2009, 12:35 AM
No such thing as a stupid question (sike)! Naw, you're correct. Sam and Will stand for Strongside and Weakside LBs.
:tiphat:Cheers bud, I've been learning about this game for over 4 years now but every once in a while something still catches me out. :D

I get the feeling that Kubes likes Diles, and if Adibi puts some weight on over the offseason then LB isn't a major need from my POV.

BattleRedToro
01-17-2009, 07:58 AM
I think that many of our problems with the safety position hasn't specifically been the talent back there but the fact that we've been unable to coach up our athletes to play the position well. You know, Polamalu, BSanders, CHope aren't the greatest athletes. However, they understand the defense and the game in general very well. That position has the greatest freedom, usually, to make plays. Assignments for a safety are broader. Almost every other position, you line up in front of a guy or a gap that you're responsible for. Safeties have the unique task to react to what is happening in front of them and make a play. Hopefully we get a good one but also I'm hopeful that our coaching changes will dramatically improve our safety play.

I agree with you about the coaching and I am hopeful that Gibbs#2 can do a good job coaching up whatever talent the Texans have in the Secondary next season.

I found it refreshing to see that he has coached defensive backs throughout much of his coaching career, and that he was hired many times without his father being involved, or on the staff.

That tells me he can coach and isn't hired due to nepotism.

(Completely off-topic: I agree with you. Dale Murphy should be in the Hall of Fame. Baseball is so messed up that it's sad. If he had been a football player with a similar career, he would've already been inducted into their Hall of Fame.)

BattleRedToro
01-17-2009, 08:11 AM
I don't care what position the Texans draft in the first round. I just hope that when it is their turn to pick that they don't pass on an exceptional player for a player at a position of need.

The first rule in drafting should be never pass on a physical freak. A guy that can do things that others can't.

A good example is Mario Williams. He is big and strong but also quick and fast. You don't pass up a guy like that to draft a player at another position even if if you don't need a DE. Even trading down is probably out of the question because you probably won't be able to get enough in return to equal the value of your pick. The best option is to draft the freak and trade your current player to get another pick or player to fill your need position.

The question is then are there any physical freaks in this draft, and if so how many, and at what positions?

TexansSeminole
01-17-2009, 12:14 PM
:tiphat:Cheers bud, I've been learning about this game for over 4 years now but every once in a while something still catches me out. :D

I get the feeling that Kubes likes Diles, and if Adibi puts some weight on over the offseason then LB isn't a major need from my POV.

The emergence of both Diles and Adibi has kind of pushed OLB down the list of defensive needs, but I still think it's a need. I think your right though, it's not a major need.

I wouldn't mind going after top OLBs in FAs pretty hard, because we don't necessarily need a young guy in here, just a really good player. I'm not sure a rookie will play better than Diles or Adibi next year unless it's a sure fire first or second rounder, which I only see Curry as a sure fire OLB. Maybe Sintim.

Rozelle
01-18-2009, 07:18 AM
I think Wilson is a good safety. If I were the Texans, I would move molen to safty just like carolina moved godfrey to safety. Thee days of fs and ss are gone. Both safeties better be able o cover and tackle. They better be able to play man and deep hash or middlee. If they can't, the Y flex tight end, offset rb wil kill the defense. Dalla Clark, gates, tony, whitten, daniels, and k2 along with westbrook types put a lot of stress on your defense. That's why teams are looking for big colege corners to play safety. that's why I would move molden to safety.

Great point leebigeztx!

Something that seems to be a growing trend in the NFL is getting big physical corners (Cover-2/Tampa 2 like corners) and converting them to safety. Like you said Carolina did this last year with Iowa’s Charles Godfrey. This basically gives a team three corners on the field in their base package. It can go a long way when trying to matchup with teams like Indianapolis and their multi receiver sets, also helps with athletic TEs like Dallas Clark. These corner-safeties can give you some flexibility on defense with not only coverage but blitzing. Malcolm Jenkins fits the mold; not in terms of the Cover-2 thing, however, he’ll be long gone by 1/16 and he'll play corner on Sundays

So called in-the-box safeties are a thing of the past, in todays NFL you must be able to cover, you can’t hide ‘em and it’s not like the old days when helmet to helmet contact was allowed and intimidation hid coverage deficiencies. Roy William (Dallas) will be the latest example of an in-the-box SS who quickly fades away because he can’t cut it in terms of coverage.
I did an article last summer on how the safety position is evolving.

The Texans do not need to address safety in the first round.

Here’s a look at some of the better safeties in the game today and the up and comers, (or I guess I should say, what I feel are some of the better), and where they were drafted.

LaRon Landry 2007 Drafted 1st round / 6th overall
Antrel Rolle 2005 1/8 (Rolle was a corner in college and converted to safety.)
Donte Whitner 2006 1/8
Troy Polamalu 2003 1/16
Michael Griffin 2007 1/19 (Griffin was tried at CB before moving to safety)
Brandon Meriweather 1/24 (See Griffin)
Ed Reed 2002 1/24

Eric Weddle 2007 2/37
Bob Sanders 2004 2/44
Darren Sharper 1997 2/60
Brian Dawkins 1996 2/61
Adrian Wilson 2001 3/64
Oshiomogho Atogwe 2005 3/66
Chris Hope 2002 3/94
Yeremiah Bell 2003 6/13

leebigeztx
01-18-2009, 10:37 PM
Great point leebigeztx!

Something that seems to be a growing trend in the NFL is getting big physical corners (Cover-2/Tampa 2 like corners) and converting them to safety. Like you said Carolina did this last year with Iowa’s Charles Godfrey. This basically gives a team three corners on the field in their base package. It can go a long way when trying to matchup with teams like Indianapolis and their multi receiver sets, also helps with athletic TEs like Dallas Clark. These corner-safeties can give you some flexibility on defense with not only coverage but blitzing. Malcolm Jenkins fits the mold; not in terms of the Cover-2 thing, however, he’ll be long gone by 1/16 and he'll play corner on Sundays

So called in-the-box safeties are a thing of the past, in todays NFL you must be able to cover, you can’t hide ‘em and it’s not like the old days when helmet to helmet contact was allowed and intimidation hid coverage deficiencies. Roy William (Dallas) will be the latest example of an in-the-box SS who quickly fades away because he can’t cut it in terms of coverage.
I did an article last summer on how the safety position is evolving.

The Texans do not need to address safety in the first round.

Here’s a look at some of the better safeties in the game today and the up and comers, (or I guess I should say, what I feel are some of the better), and where they were drafted.

LaRon Landry 2007 Drafted 1st round / 6th overall
Antrel Rolle 2005 1/8 (Rolle was a corner in college and converted to safety.)
Donte Whitner 2006 1/8
Troy Polamalu 2003 1/16
Michael Griffin 2007 1/19 (Griffin was tried at CB before moving to safety)
Brandon Meriweather 1/24 (See Griffin)
Ed Reed 2002 1/24

Eric Weddle 2007 2/37
Bob Sanders 2004 2/44
Darren Sharper 1997 2/60
Brian Dawkins 1996 2/61
Adrian Wilson 2001 3/64
Oshiomogho Atogwe 2005 3/66
Chris Hope 2002 3/94
Yeremiah Bell 2003 6/13

Yeah there is a huge trend. Thats why everyone thought philly would trade sheppard, but what they dont know is the 3rd corner plays 60% of the snaps. The guy that has been phased out is slb and in the box safety. The non fullback and flex te kills that spot. most teams now go with big nickel. If a team like Cleveland comes out in 3 wr,1 te,and 1 rb, if you go traditional nickel,k2 will kill you and the rb lewis is being tackled by cb's. So what teams want to do is bring in a cb, but have a safety who can cover. Basically its a cover 1 and its a nickel look. Thats why teams are playing alot of 3 safety look. If i were the defensive coach, i would look to transition bennett or molden to play next to wilson. then if the team doesn't have a flex te, but runs alot of 3 wr stuff, then the safety drops down and covers the wr and you stay in base.

Norg
01-19-2009, 02:53 AM
TBO i like Will demps has a starting saftey with the rookie D barber backing him up


Demps played good when he was healthy ... its not like no rookie from the draft is going to come in and take his starting spot it will have to be a good FA

which i think we will draft a saftey in the draft ... TBH

Rozelle
01-19-2009, 09:47 AM
Yeah there is a huge trend. Thats why everyone thought philly would trade sheppard, but what they dont know is the 3rd corner plays 60% of the snaps. The guy that has been phased out is slb and in the box safety. The non fullback and flex te kills that spot. most teams now go with big nickel. If a team like Cleveland comes out in 3 wr,1 te,and 1 rb, if you go traditional nickel,k2 will kill you and the rb lewis is being tackled by cb's. So what teams want to do is bring in a cb, but have a safety who can cover. Basically its a cover 1 and its a nickel look. Thats why teams are playing alot of 3 safety look. If i were the defensive coach, i would look to transition bennett or molden to play next to wilson. then if the team doesn't have a flex te, but runs alot of 3 wr stuff, then the safety drops down and covers the wr and you stay in base.

Yeah… the Big Nickel is being used a lot and is only go to increase. Carolina darn near uses it as their base defense, nickel corner Richard Marshall gets a ton of snaps.
And in-the-box SS are becoming extinct; everyone wants/needs their safeties to be interchangeable.

Both Bennet and Molden have the size to convert, like to see these guys play at 200+, not sure if they have what it takes in terms of run support.
Molden is a project, scouts said he was better athlete than football player, really had a great showing at the combine last year. Yeremiah Bell is a EKU alumni also. Lacks the instincts, but has the physical attributes to be molded. Coach Gibbs will be ideal for him. Thanks for the input.