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Marcus
01-04-2009, 07:52 PM
Interesting comment about Jim Johnson during the Vikings - Eagles game.

Asked what it was that allowed him to do the things that he does with his defense.

"It's my safeties."

I guess that means that whoever you hire as a DC, you'd better get him the players to carry out the scheme. With players like Brian Dawkins, I can see why he can be that aggressive.

DiehardChris
01-04-2009, 07:54 PM
After seeing what Ed Reed did to the Dolphins today... man.

Silver Oak
01-04-2009, 08:00 PM
Taylor Mays anyone?

GP
01-04-2009, 08:03 PM
I've never bought the idea that a defensive backfield can't to do anything if the front four doesn't put pressure on the QB.

While it's true that an average secondary can be masked by a great pass rush, the defensive backs are still on an island a lot, with no real help if the WR gets some space.

It takes exceptional talent and skill from your DBs to pull it all together. The Eagles and the Ravens are in the playoffs a lot. I wonder why. Maybe it's defense. And that's why the Richard Smith experiment is so curious to me. That the HC and the FO thought they could make it work with Richard Smith is so far beyond my limited knowledge of football.

Sometimes we can get too cute. Give me a NY strip over a puny gourmet meal any deal. Give me a lifted 1984 GMC Sierra Classic over the stuff being cranked out today.

Jim Johnson just goes out there and bulldozes his way through offenses. There's a time for faking blitz and dropping back in shallow zone. And there's a time to bring the house. Jim Johnson knows how to make that distinction. RS not so much.

J-Russ
01-04-2009, 08:08 PM
Taylor Mays anyone?

I think that bandwagon is starting to gain some steam, 'specially after what we've seen from TayMays from the Rose Bowl and what we seen the top 2 safety in the NFL did to the opposing teams today.

I'm all for drafting Mays in the 1st, but we can probably also grab Willie Moore in the 2nd, with his draft stock falling because of his recent plays and being overweight(both dude to injuries). Either way, I won't be complaining from getting a safety earlier in the top 2 rounds.

Wolf
01-04-2009, 08:14 PM
I am still in the boat of another pass rusher, because of what the giants did to the patriots last year

Marcus
01-04-2009, 08:17 PM
Taylor Mays anyone?

The only way we get Taylor Mays is if we trade up. He'll go as high as Sean Taylor did. Definately won't be there at 15.

Nawzer
01-04-2009, 08:20 PM
I mentioned in another thread that the Texans should pursue Quintin Mikell of the Eagles. He's a great safety that's relatively unknown but I remember Jim Johnson saying that he is probably the most important player on their defense.

awtysst
01-04-2009, 08:55 PM
I mentioned in another thread that the Texans should pursue Quintin Mikell of the Eagles. He's a great safety that's relatively unknown but I remember Jim Johnson saying that he is probably the most important player on their defense.

lets get Mikell and McDermott!

TexansSeminole
01-04-2009, 09:13 PM
I still don't understand the Mays comparisons with either Ed Reed or Sean Taylor. Both Ed Reed and Sean Taylor are/were great coverage and hitters in college and the pros. I haven't seen a whole lot of great coverage from Mays in his career at USC. Sure the guy can hit but what makes those two great safeties are their ability to hit and cover. Has alot to do with anticipating throws.

I actually don't think Mays will be a top 10 pick at all.

RipTraxx
01-04-2009, 09:57 PM
I still don't understand the Mays comparisons with either Ed Reed or Sean Taylor. Both Ed Reed and Sean Taylor are/were great coverage and hitters in college and the pros. I haven't seen a whole lot of great coverage from Mays in his career at USC. Sure the guy can hit but what makes those two great safeties are their ability to hit and cover. Has alot to do with anticipating throws.

I actually don't think Mays will be a top 10 pick at all.


My bet he crushes it in the combine, putting him back in the top 10.

Otherwise i say if he's at 15 grab him.

Big Lou
01-04-2009, 10:04 PM
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!!!!!!!!!


Survey Says: SAFETY!!!!!!!!


We need a big time ball hawking safety!!!!!!


Please. please, please, pretty please!!!!!!!

TexansFanatic
01-04-2009, 10:07 PM
The only way we get Taylor Mays is if we trade up. He'll go as high as Shaun Taylor did. Definately won't be there at 15.

Exactly right. I don't see Smith trading up. We're still more than one player away from having a great team so we don't have the luxury of trading up.

jgl35
01-04-2009, 11:13 PM
I mentioned in another thread that the Texans should pursue Quintin Mikell of the Eagles. He's a great safety that's relatively unknown but I remember Jim Johnson saying that he is probably the most important player on their defense.

Mikell signed a three year deal with the Eagles at the start of this season. He was an UFR but didn't look to go anywhere else. He was signed as an undrafted rookie fron Boise State in 03 by the Eagles.

This is some backround on McDermott. He played safety a William and Mary 1994-97. Coached in 98 at William and Mary and was hired by Ray Rhoads in 98. Reid kept him on when he became head coach the following year.

As DB coach McDermott is highly skilled at developing undrafted players into starters. Milkell, Rod Hood with the Cards, and Clinton Hart with San Diego were all undrafted when they came to Philly. Al Harris of Green Bay was cut by Tampa before coming to Philly.

Goldensilence
01-05-2009, 01:37 AM
I still don't understand the Mays comparisons with either Ed Reed or Sean Taylor. Both Ed Reed and Sean Taylor are/were great coverage and hitters in college and the pros. I haven't seen a whole lot of great coverage from Mays in his career at USC. Sure the guy can hit but what makes those two great safeties are their ability to hit and cover. Has alot to do with anticipating throws.

I actually don't think Mays will be a top 10 pick at all.

Well said. I don't think Mays will be a top 10 pick and he'll be there if we chose to go that route. He did make some highlight reel hits but, like you, I'm more concerned about the ability to cover. If we are pursuing McDermott then Moore or Mays could be legit targets with our first. Otherwise I'm not so sure.

hot pickle
01-05-2009, 12:34 PM
william moore is big and is a ball hawk... get him the right coaching and get him to lose-10-15 pounds and he could be a ed reed type player

Malloy
01-05-2009, 01:24 PM
I guess that means that whoever you hire as a DC, you'd better get him the players to carry out the scheme. With players like Brian Dawkins, I can see why he can be that aggressive.

Dawkins remind me so much of Dunta... perhaps we should get him back at safety :)

Nawzer
01-05-2009, 01:42 PM
Mikell signed a three year deal with the Eagles at the start of this season. He was an UFR but didn't look to go anywhere else. He was signed as an undrafted rookie fron Boise State in 03 by the Eagles.

This is some backround on McDermott. He played safety a William and Mary 1994-97. Coached in 98 at William and Mary and was hired by Ray Rhoads in 98. Reid kept him on when he became head coach the following year.

As DB coach McDermott is highly skilled at developing undrafted players into starters. Milkell, Rod Hood with the Cards, and Clinton Hart with San Diego were all undrafted when they came to Philly. Al Harris of Green Bay was cut by Tampa before coming to Philly.

I see. Thanks for the info. I guess Mikell won't be a Texan anytime soon. It would've been nice though. Taylor Mays is a vicious hitter but I don't really know much else about him. Can he cover the likes of Reggie Wayne, Anthony Gonzales, Wes Welker, Ocho Cinco Johnson, and others, when our corners get beat? I would like to see him in a texans uniform but I also know that if we improve our pass rush significantly, our secondary will automatically look better.

Texan in Japan
01-05-2009, 10:43 PM
From what I've read Mays was used as the deep prevent coverage by USC...they intentionally kept him deep to keep from being burnt on long plays. Carroll had said this in an article a while back...scouts should be able to discern is coverage skills in drills and looking at film where he had coverage responsibility.

The1ApplePie
01-05-2009, 11:17 PM
It would take just as much work to make our defense "Jim Johnson Style" as it would to turn it into a 3-4

You need:

Two great safeties
A deep stable of athletic pass rushers
Dominant and big DTs
CBs that can play on a island

Marcus
01-05-2009, 11:33 PM
It would take just as much work to make our defense "Jim Johnson Style" as it would to turn it into a 3-4

You need:

Two great safeties
A deep stable of athletic pass rushers
Dominant and big DTs
CBs that can play on a island

I absolutely agree with that assessment.

PHAROAH
01-06-2009, 02:20 AM
Taylor Mays stock just went up on our boards and if we don't take him maybe a Rashad Johnson from Alabama might do the trick as well. I hope that we sign strong safety roy williams to help in the run game and across the middle he will put fear into wr's & te's.

PHAROAH
01-06-2009, 02:22 AM
It would take just as much work to make our defense "Jim Johnson Style" as it would to turn it into a 3-4

You need:

Two great safeties
A deep stable of athletic pass rushers
Dominant and big DTs
CBs that can play on a island
I agree with your assesment but we must make the change so I say why not so does that mean Sean Mcdermott move up on Kubiak's list for a defensive coordinator?


:fans:

Ckw
01-06-2009, 05:08 AM
It would take just as much work to make our defense "Jim Johnson Style" as it would to turn it into a 3-4

You need:

Two great safeties
A deep stable of athletic pass rushers
Dominant and big DTs
CBs that can play on a island

Or you hire Jim Johnson....

I mean that guy seems to turn whatever "talent" he is given into gold.

Bubbajwp
01-06-2009, 09:04 PM
My bet he crushes it in the combine, putting him back in the top 10.

Otherwise i say if he's at 15 grab him.

Absolutely correct. He is a athletic phenom. If he can run a 4.4 40 he is going in the top ten.

DocBar
01-06-2009, 10:10 PM
I've never bought the idea that a defensive backfield can't to do anything if the front four doesn't put pressure on the QB.

While it's true that an average secondary can be masked by a great pass rush, the defensive backs are still on an island a lot, with no real help if the WR gets some space.

It takes exceptional talent and skill from your DBs to pull it all together. The Eagles and the Ravens are in the playoffs a lot. I wonder why. Maybe it's defense. And that's why the Richard Smith experiment is so curious to me. That the HC and the FO thought they could make it work with Richard Smith is so far beyond my limited knowledge of football.

Sometimes we can get too cute. Give me a NY strip over a puny gourmet meal any deal. Give me a lifted 1984 GMC Sierra Classic over the stuff being cranked out today.

Jim Johnson just goes out there and bulldozes his way through offenses. There's a time for faking blitz and dropping back in shallow zone. And there's a time to bring the house. Jim Johnson knows how to make that distinction. RS not so much. That whole thing about getting cute reminded me of Casserly getting cute in drafts and always trying to show his "genius" by taking a player out of the blue so he could make him a star or some crap, and show the NFL world how smart he is.
It would take just as much work to make our defense "Jim Johnson Style" as it would to turn it into a 3-4

You need:

Two great safeties
A deep stable of athletic pass rushers
Dominant and big DTs
CBs that can play on a island My biggest question now is, exactly what do we have in on the D side? I mean, nobody even TRIED disguising a coverage til they stuck Wilson in and he did it on his own. THAT, BTW, was a part of the turn around we saw on D this season that hasn't been given it's due, IMO. All I've seen out of RS's secondary are DB's running to catch a WR and flailing their arms around, just hoping the can break up the pass. We MIGHT have some pretty OK guys back there. Reeves got better as the season went on. Wilson did OK, too. Ferguson brought some good wood to the fight. also. Are they any kind of answer? I dunno. Smith's D was so dysfuntional they should take the F-U-N out of it cuz it S-U-C-K-E-D. I'm not sure of any part of our D outside MW, DROB and Ryans. I think Diles is good enough to start. also. Other than that, I have tons of questions, regardless of scheme. I just don't know what the talent we have could do in another DC's scheme.

GP
01-06-2009, 10:19 PM
I have ESPN Insider, which you have to have in order to see who draft analyst Todd McShay thinks the Texans will take at number 15.

Guess who?

Taylor Mays.

I haven't watched him play, mostly because I dislike USC and can't stand to watch them due to how the media hugs their you-know-whats. A few people here seem to think he's pretty good.

A good safety can do a lot of damage whether there's a pass rush or not. Heck, he can HELP the pass rush if he's swarming to the key receiver on a lot of routes. Take away a QBs target(s) and that pass rush can look a lot better all of a sudden.

We need to make QBs think long and hard about where they go with the ball. Get them thinking too much, and they aren't getting rid of the ball fast enough.

mexican_texan
01-06-2009, 10:22 PM
Taylor Mays is no Ed Reed. I know everyone is all over him, especially after the performance by Reed against Miami, but Reed was a ball-hawk in college as much as he is in the NFL. I haven't seen a safety like Reed in a long time and I'd rather have Vontae Davis if he's available.

Marcus
01-06-2009, 10:44 PM
Taylor Mays is no Ed Reed.

Taylor Mays reminds me of Roy Williams. He can hit a ton, but he couldn't cover the toilet lid with his own ass.

GP
01-06-2009, 10:55 PM
Taylor Mays reminds me of Roy Williams. He can hit a ton, but he couldn't cover the toilet lid with his own ass.

LOL. niiiiiice.

That's a good one.

D-ReK
01-07-2009, 12:24 AM
Taylor Mays reminds me of Roy Williams. He can hit a ton, but he couldn't cover the toilet lid with his own ass.

Despite being comical, this statement is totally erroneous. Mays played deep in a cover-1 at USC and was required to cover the entire field as well as use his speed to play the run. He has a great blend of size and athleticism and would be great defending jump balls. The ceiling for him is comparable to Ed Reed. The floor for him is someone like Laron Landry. Either way it's a huge upgrade for our secondary.

Bubbajwp
01-07-2009, 08:16 AM
He might hit like Roy Williams but his athletic ability far exceeds Roy's.

b0ng
01-07-2009, 09:30 AM
I hope that we sign strong safety roy williams to help in the run game and across the middle he will put fear into wr's & te's.

Hell to the no. Roy Williams is the epitome of overrated. He was decent at hitting until they enacted the Roy Williams rule (horse collars). Now (when he's not injured) he doesn't even do that well anymore. And Petey Faggins thinks Roy Williams sucks in coverage.

Also, the people who think that Taylor Mays can't cover really must not watch any USC football (not that I blame you)
. Mays is good enough to be the single deep safety on most defensive snaps, even though he is a punishing hitter. I don't think he's the best cover safety in the draft, but the guy has been able to cover almost anybody he's been assigned to. So I think the comparisons to Taylor are apt.

And nobody can compare to Ed Reed right now, and nobody has in a long while. Reed is more like a really big CB who can do anything you want him to in coverage, but can still hit you.

BigBull17
01-07-2009, 10:25 AM
Ed Reed is Ed Reed. He is the Peyton Manning of Defense. He is the best overall Saftey in the NFL. Maybe the best defensive player around right now.

RipTraxx
01-07-2009, 10:53 AM
Hell to the no. Roy Williams is the epitome of overrated. He was decent at hitting until they enacted the Roy Williams rule (horse collars). Now (when he's not injured) he doesn't even do that well anymore. And Petey Faggins thinks Roy Williams sucks in coverage.

Also, the people who think that Taylor Mays can't cover really must not watch any USC football (not that I blame you)
. Mays is good enough to be the single deep safety on most defensive snaps, even though he is a punishing hitter. I don't think he's the best cover safety in the draft, but the guy has been able to cover almost anybody he's been assigned to. So I think the comparisons to Taylor are apt.

And nobody can compare to Ed Reed right now, and nobody has in a long while. Reed is more like a really big CB who can do anything you want him to in coverage, but can still hit you.


So which IS the best cover safety?

TexansSeminole
01-07-2009, 11:13 AM
The ceiling for him is comparable to Ed Reed. The floor for him is someone like Laron Landry.

The ceiling is Ed Reed and the floor is LaRon Landry???

Over exaggerate much?

The Pencil Neck
01-07-2009, 01:30 PM
My biggest question now is, exactly what do we have in on the D side? I mean, nobody even TRIED disguising a coverage til they stuck Wilson in and he did it on his own. THAT, BTW, was a part of the turn around we saw on D this season that hasn't been given it's due, IMO. All I've seen out of RS's secondary are DB's running to catch a WR and flailing their arms around, just hoping the can break up the pass. We MIGHT have some pretty OK guys back there. Reeves got better as the season went on. Wilson did OK, too. Ferguson brought some good wood to the fight. also. Are they any kind of answer? I dunno. Smith's D was so dysfuntional they should take the F-U-N out of it cuz it S-U-C-K-E-D. I'm not sure of any part of our D outside MW, DROB and Ryans. I think Diles is good enough to start. also. Other than that, I have tons of questions, regardless of scheme. I just don't know what the talent we have could do in another DC's scheme.

Personally, I think we've got a lot of talent on defense that just wasn't utilized right. I think Adibi really upgrades our linebackers and if he's healthy, our D is much better automatically.

I think the D-Rob, Reeves, Bennett, and Molden combination at CB is fine. I think in a pressure style defense, Reeves will be great; he's at his best in the first 10-15 yards when he can look in the backfield.

I think we need 3 positions filled to be a great defense: a pass rushing DE, a real FREE safety, and one more linebacker because I'm not sold on Diles and Bentley is too slow for the SAM. (I like Bentley on Special Teams and as a backup MLB.)

I think we can be OK with our DT/NT situation and I think we have some good depth guys for the dline.

If you take our players (with those 3 additions) and put them in the right scheme, I think we'll be a good defense.

HOU-TEX
01-07-2009, 02:27 PM
Personally, I think we've got a lot of talent on defense that just wasn't utilized right. I think Adibi really upgrades our linebackers and if he's healthy, our D is much better automatically.

I think the D-Rob, Reeves, Bennett, and Molden combination at CB is fine. I think in a pressure style defense, Reeves will be great; he's at his best in the first 10-15 yards when he can look in the backfield.

I think we need 3 positions filled to be a great defense: a pass rushing DE, a real FREE safety, and one more linebacker because I'm not sold on Diles and Bentley is too slow for the SAM. (I like Bentley on Special Teams and as a backup MLB.)

I think we can be OK with our DT/NT situation and I think we have some good depth guys for the dline.

If you take our players (with those 3 additions) and put them in the right scheme, I think we'll be a good defense.

Good post, PN. It took me a few seconds to grasp what you said about Reeves. After thinking about his performances, I think you're correct.

I agree with needing a DE, OLB and FS. I wouldn't be upset if a DT/NT type player fell to us that we had graded higher. Heck, I wouldn't even be upset if a CB did the same. Especially until Dunta's situation is hammered out.

Goldensilence
01-07-2009, 04:25 PM
Personally, I think we've got a lot of talent on defense that just wasn't utilized right. I think Adibi really upgrades our linebackers and if he's healthy, our D is much better automatically.

I think the D-Rob, Reeves, Bennett, and Molden combination at CB is fine. I think in a pressure style defense, Reeves will be great; he's at his best in the first 10-15 yards when he can look in the backfield.

I think we need 3 positions filled to be a great defense: a pass rushing DE, a real FREE safety, and one more linebacker because I'm not sold on Diles and Bentley is too slow for the SAM. (I like Bentley on Special Teams and as a backup MLB.)

I think we can be OK with our DT/NT situation and I think we have some good depth guys for the dline.

If you take our players (with those 3 additions) and put them in the right scheme, I think we'll be a good defense.

GREAT post. I think this pretty much sums up my feelings on defense.

DocBar
01-07-2009, 04:31 PM
Personally, I think we've got a lot of talent on defense that just wasn't utilized right. I think Adibi really upgrades our linebackers and if he's healthy, our D is much better automatically.

I think the D-Rob, Reeves, Bennett, and Molden combination at CB is fine. I think in a pressure style defense, Reeves will be great; he's at his best in the first 10-15 yards when he can look in the backfield.

I think we need 3 positions filled to be a great defense: a pass rushing DE, a real FREE safety, and one more linebacker because I'm not sold on Diles and Bentley is too slow for the SAM. (I like Bentley on Special Teams and as a backup MLB.)

I think we can be OK with our DT/NT situation and I think we have some good depth guys for the dline.

If you take our players (with those 3 additions) and put them in the right scheme, I think we'll be a good defense. I think they could be pretty good, also. I hope we get a DC signed and the talent evaluated by him before we make too big of a splash in FA. Our history in FA scares the crap outta me.

Polo
01-07-2009, 04:50 PM
If we got a beastly SS that could bring some pop in the run game and had nice range in the passing game like a Polumalu or Bob Sanders I'd be fine with Wilson playing the Free...

In fact, I would even argue that a really nice Strong Safety would help us out more at this point..

GP
01-07-2009, 05:04 PM
I think DelJuan and Bulman have shown enough "want to" that it solodifies the Dline, which means LB or DB is targeted.

Unless a real gem is still left at Dline at pick 15, I think we're going to see a CB or a Safety. It's the "We need another Dunta before Dunta can't play anymore" plan, IMO.

Who here would be absolutely appalled at grabbing Taylor Mays at 15? I haven't seen the guy play, but I have read through the statements. We don't have a solid guy at safety (MAYBE Eugene Wilson is "one" guy, but he's listed at FS and we need another at SS).

Wilson is a good cover guy, and Mays could be the enforcer. I wouldn't be unhappy. I'd be unhappy moving down about 12 slots for an extra 3rd rounder, though. We need to stay where we're at unless someone is going to go bonkers and give us multiple picks or something. But even then...we've all pretty much agreed that we need TALENT. And that comes at the top of the first round.

It all gets a little murky after that.

Rozelle
01-07-2009, 07:41 PM
I have ESPN Insider, which you have to have in order to see who draft analyst Todd McShay thinks the Texans will take at number 15.

Guess who?

Taylor Mays.

I haven't watched him play, mostly because I dislike USC and can't stand to watch them due to how the media hugs their you-know-whats. A few people here seem to think he's pretty good.

A good safety can do a lot of damage whether there's a pass rush or not. Heck, he can HELP the pass rush if he's swarming to the key receiver on a lot of routes. Take away a QBs target(s) and that pass rush can look a lot better all of a sudden.

We need to make QBs think long and hard about where they go with the ball. Get them thinking too much, and they aren't getting rid of the ball fast enough.


With all due respect to Todd McShay, don’t see Mays being there at 15, but you never know. Mays is not real instinctive but his upside is off the charts, no other safety is worth the 15 spot. Could trade back and get a cover safety like Troy’s Sherrod Martin later in the draft, although he could and probably will get looks at corner, which will rise his stock. Troy has put out some pretty good defensive players… Osi Umenyiora, DeMarcus Ware and Leodis McKelvin, I read Martin has more natural ball skills than McKelvin.

Getting big corners that have the physical ability to play safety is a growing trend in the NFL. Having a guy like Martin in the secondary would be like having three corners on the field in your base package, and would matchup well with Indy’s multiple receiver sets and TEs like Dallas Clark.

Rashad Johnson (Alabama) is one of the better instinctive safeties in the draft. His shortcomings are size (5-11 185) and durability.

RipTraxx
01-07-2009, 07:48 PM
With all due respect to Todd McShay, don’t see Mays being there at 15, but you never know. Mays is not real instinctive but his upside is off the charts, no other safety is worth the 15 spot. Could trade back and get a cover safety like Troy’s Sherrod Martin later in the draft, although he could and probably will get looks at corner, which will rise his stock. Troy has put out some pretty good defensive players… Osi Umenyiora, DeMarcus Ware and Leodis McKelvin, I read Martin has more natural ball skills than McKelvin.

Getting big corners that have the physical ability to play safety is a growing trend in the NFL. Having a guy like Martin in the secondary would be like having three corners on the field in your base package, and would matchup well with Indy’s multiple receiver sets and TEs like Dallas Clark.

Rashad Johnson (Alabama) is one of the better instinctive safeties in the draft. His shortcomings are size (5-11 185) and durability.

The right DC. Plus a quality DBs coach PAIRED with ray rhodes might make Taylor that guy.

DocBar
01-07-2009, 07:48 PM
With all due respect to Todd McShay, don’t see Mays being there at 15, but you never know. Mays is not real instinctive but his upside is off the charts, no other safety is worth the 15 spot. Could trade back and get a cover safety like Troy’s Sherrod Martin later in the draft, although he could and probably will get looks at corner, which will rise his stock. Troy has put out some pretty good defensive players… Osi Umenyiora, DeMarcus Ware and Leodis McKelvin, I read Martin has more natural ball skills than McKelvin.

Getting big corners that have the physical ability to play safety is a growing trend in the NFL. Having a guy like Martin in the secondary would be like having three corners on the field in your base package, and would matchup well with Indy’s multiple receiver sets and TEs like Dallas Clark.

Rashad Johnson (Alabama) is one of the better instinctive safeties in the draft. His shortcomings are size (5-11 185) and durability.
I'll take instincts any day. That's what Reed, Polomalu, etc. bring to the table. They just have an instinct for being around the ball and making plays on it. It's hard to coach up.