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Dread-Head
01-03-2009, 11:28 AM
Three words baby...Buddy... Freakin' Ryan. Bring him out of retirement and let him rule that defense like a despot. His record as a head coach is spotty, but as a defensive coordinator he is one of the absolute best. If he doesn't want it...let's hire Jeri Ryan but only if she agrees to wear the 7 of 9 catsuit on the sidelines.

mike moffat
01-03-2009, 11:47 AM
Three words baby...Buddy... Freakin' Ryan. Bring him out of retirement and let him rule that defense like a despot. His record as a head coach is spotty, but as a defensive coordinator he is one of the absolute best. If he doesn't want it...let's hire Jeri Ryan but only if she agrees to wear the 7 of 9 catsuit on the sidelines.
How about Meg Ryan?:laughjump:
I'm with you Mr. Head (pun from another thread) let's get someone with some balls who will get the defense whipped into their full potential.:bat:

b0ng
01-03-2009, 11:55 AM
Yeah, him throwing rabbit punches at Shanahan jr on the sidelines would be awesome!

Old School
01-03-2009, 11:57 AM
And the good thing is that Shanni is young and quick enough that he could bob and weave to avoid any shots Ryan took at him. :aggressive: :specnatz:

Hervoyel
01-03-2009, 12:02 PM
Three words baby...Buddy... Freakin' Ryan. Bring him out of retirement and let him rule that defense like a despot. His record as a head coach is spotty, but as a defensive coordinator he is one of the absolute best. If he doesn't want it...let's hire Jeri Ryan but only if she agrees to wear the 7 of 9 catsuit on the sidelines.


I get where you're going with this but Buddy Ryan is 74 years old or thereabouts and probably not up to the task of coaching a defense. It would be nice to find one of his disciples however.

Vinny
01-03-2009, 12:30 PM
I get where you're going with this but Buddy Ryan is 74 years old or thereabouts and probably not up to the task of coaching a defense. It would be nice to find one of his disciples however.

Jeff Fisher is one...he's done pretty well.

hookinreds
01-03-2009, 12:45 PM
Yeah, him throwing rabbit punches at Shanahan jr on the sidelines would be awesome!

Like watching Don Zimmer falling over himself.

Lucky
01-03-2009, 01:21 PM
Jeff Fisher is one...he's done pretty well.
Mike and Leslie Frazier played on the '85 Bears 46 defense, and have had some coaching success in the NFL. We we talking about former Oiler Marcus Robertson yesterday, who played under Ryan for a season and now is an assistant with the Titans.

But how many of these guys, even his sons Rex and Rob, still deploy the 46 defense? I haven't seen it used in some time. I think these coaches realize that it takes an extraordinary collection of talent on the defensive front to make that defense work. The type of talent the Texans don't have just yet. Do the Texans need some of Buddy Ryan's attitude on the defense? Couldn't hurt. But, I don't think using Buddy Ryan's defensive schemes would be a great idea.

Vinny
01-03-2009, 01:23 PM
Mike and Leslie Frazier played on the '85 Bears 46 defense, and have had some coaching success in the NFL. We we talking about former Oiler Marcus Robertson yesterday, who played under Ryan for a season and now is an assistant with the Titans.

But how many of these guys, even his sons Rex and Rob, still deploy the 46 defense? I haven't seen it used in some time. I think these coaches realize that it takes an extraordinary collection of talent on the defensive front to make that defense work. The type of talent the Texans don't have just yet. Do the Texans need some of Buddy Ryan's attitude on the defense? Couldn't hurt. But, I don't think using Buddy Ryan's defensive schemes would be a great idea.
Coach Fisher doesn't even use the 46 look anymore.....if he does it's rare. I know you know better since I've been reading you for years but Ryan didn't use the 46 all the time like many folks think. The 46 was a different front he used depending on down and distance...and talent available. His base defensive formation was an aggressive gap penetrating style 4-3.

Marcus
01-03-2009, 01:34 PM
It needs to have a Jim Johnson defensive scheme. But for that scheme to work, you have to very strong against the run, and make tthe other team know that it can't run. The Eagles lead the league in defending the run.

So, you need the personnel to make that scheme work. Do we have enough talent to carry out that type of scheme? I think we're still a couple of defense-heavy drafts away from that.

steelbtexan
01-03-2009, 01:38 PM
Coach Fisher doesn't even use the 46 look anymore.....if he does it's rare. I know you know better since I've been reading you for years but Ryan didn't use the 46 all the time like many folks think. The 46 was a different front he used depending on down and distance...and talent available. His base defensive formation was an aggressive gap penetrating style 4-3.

I like watching this kind of defense.

It's night & day compared to the 3 years of watching Dick Smiths read & react defenses.

What was Smiths highest rated defense?

I hope the days of read & react are over.

Lucky
01-03-2009, 01:48 PM
I know you know better since I've been reading you for years but Ryan didn't use the 46 all the time like many folks think.
Right, but that's how he made his name. And I think that's the type of attacking defense most fans are thinking of when they speak of Ryan. If you look back at Ryan's career and the players he had on the defensive front (Page, Eller, Hampton, Dent, Singletary, Marshall, White, Jerome Brown, Joyner, Childress, Sean Jones, etc.), he wasn't working with mediocre talent. I'm not suggesting that Ryan didn't play a part in their development. Just that he had a lot of talent to develop. A defense can be aggressive with that type of ability up front.

The Texans have talent on defense. Mario has as much talent as any d-lineman currently in the NFL. DeMeco is as close to Mike Singletary as you can find in the league. But, I don't see the type of overwheming talent that can get to the QB consistantly, or corners that can play on an island. If the Texans were to look to model a successful NFL defense, Monte Kiffin's cover 2 would be the best way to go.

Okoye would be best served playing as a one gap under tackle, and not face NFL guards straight up. The Texans LBs (Ryans, Diles, Adibi) all fit the cover 2 LB mold with thir ability to chase and cover. And the Texans corners (Reeves, Bennett, and even Robinson) would be best utilizied facing the play, rather than having to turn and run. I still think the Texans would need an edge rusher to allow Mario to move to LDE. And a couple of safeties with range and some pop. But, they need that no matter what defensive scheme they go to. Right now, I would be looking for a coordinator with a Tampa 2 background.

Jackie Chiles
01-03-2009, 03:32 PM
The Texans have talent on defense. Mario has as much talent as any d-lineman currently in the NFL. DeMeco is as close to Mike Singletary as you can find in the league. But, I don't see the type of overwheming talent that can get to the QB consistantly, or corners that can play on an island. If the Texans were to look to model a successful NFL defense, Monte Kiffin's cover 2 would be the best way to go.

Okoye would be best served playing as a one gap under tackle, and not face NFL guards straight up. The Texans LBs (Ryans, Diles, Adibi) all fit the cover 2 LB mold with thir ability to chase and cover. And the Texans corners (Reeves, Bennett, and even Robinson) would be best utilizied facing the play, rather than having to turn and run. I still think the Texans would need an edge rusher to allow Mario to move to LDE. And a couple of safeties with range and some pop. But, they need that no matter what defensive scheme they go to. Right now, I would be looking for a coordinator with a Tampa 2 background.

We certainly seem to have some of the pieces for this type of defense, but I can't really think of another Tampa 2 team that has had nearly the success the Bucs have. The Bears have had a couple really good years but after that I can't think of another. Indy had a good year or two but they are built so uniquely because of their offense's potency. Even with that offense more times than not they are nothing special. Who am I missing? Don't get me wrong, I do find this idea appealing, mostly because of the fact that I believe Mario, Amobi, DeMeco and Xavier give us 4 almost perfect front 7 fits. (TJ would actually be another good fit) Another question, who are the potential coordinators we would be looking at?

Lucky
01-03-2009, 08:49 PM
We certainly seem to have some of the pieces for this type of defense, but I can't really think of another Tampa 2 team that has had nearly the success the Bucs have. The Bears have had a couple really good years but after that I can't think of another. Indy had a good year or two but they are built so uniquely because of their offense's potency.
The Colts get more out of less from their defense than any team in the league, year in and year out. They start one 1st round draft pick (Freeney) and have zero high priced free agents on defense. They survive because they are committed to the system. The Colts defense has had a couple of poor years due to injuries, specifically Bob Sanders. But, they've been a top 10 defense in points allowed during 4 of Dungy's 7 seasons as head coach, including this season.

Many teams use elements of zone schemes for run blocking, few are totally committed to the concept as the Texans are and the Broncos were. Similarly, all teams utilize cover 2 schemes, but few are as committed as the Bucs and Colts. I would want to bring in a defensive coach that has worked under one of the masters, Kiffin or Dungy. Alan Williams has coached DBs for Dungy and the Colts for 7 seasons, and was in Tampa Bay for a year. If Herm Edwards is fired in KC, that would be a consideration as he was a long time Dungy assistant. There are probably others (including Rod Marinelli, whom I'm not crazy about). I just think that the Texans defense has lacked an identity (well, other than bad), and a committment to the Tampa 2 defense could give them that.

TEXANRED
01-03-2009, 08:55 PM
Jeff Fisher is one...he's done pretty well.

Who?

TexansSeminole
01-03-2009, 09:20 PM
But, they've been a top 10 defense in points allowed during 4 of Dungy's 7 seasons as head coach, including this season.

That also has alot to do with their QB not making stupid decisions. I agree with your main point though.

texanhead08
01-03-2009, 10:44 PM
The 46 was invented not because of the great talent but because his Bears defense couldn't get much of a pass rush in those days. He said I'm gonna send everyone if I have too its called the 46 because that was the number of the strong safety Doug Plank who was a big hitter in his time.

rarazz00
01-04-2009, 12:52 PM
The 46 was invented not because of the great talent but because his Bears defense couldn't get much of a pass rush in those days. He said I'm gonna send everyone if I have too its called the 46 because that was the number of the strong safety Doug Plank who was a big hitter in his time.

EXACTAMUNDO:doot:

GP
01-04-2009, 07:56 PM
It needs to have a Jim Johnson defensive scheme. But for that scheme to work, you have to very strong against the run, and make tthe other team know that it can't run. The Eagles lead the league in defending the run.

So, you need the personnel to make that scheme work. Do we have enough talent to carry out that type of scheme? I think we're still a couple of defense-heavy drafts away from that.

Buddy Ryan and the Eagles.

Jim Johnson and the Eagles.

Someone said the 46 isn't used anymore, but that Jim Johnson defense looks awfully Buddy Ryan'ish to me. The attitude does, at least, above everything else.

Imatexanfan
01-04-2009, 09:52 PM
A GOOD DC THATS IT WELL AND A FEW GOOD SECONDARY GUYS.:fans:

Dread-Head
01-05-2009, 12:06 AM
Where the hell is Richard Dent?

leebigeztx
01-05-2009, 03:00 AM
Right, but that's how he made his name. And I think that's the type of attacking defense most fans are thinking of when they speak of Ryan. If you look back at Ryan's career and the players he had on the defensive front (Page, Eller, Hampton, Dent, Singletary, Marshall, White, Jerome Brown, Joyner, Childress, Sean Jones, etc.), he wasn't working with mediocre talent. I'm not suggesting that Ryan didn't play a part in their development. Just that he had a lot of talent to develop. A defense can be aggressive with that type of ability up front.

The Texans have talent on defense. Mario has as much talent as any d-lineman currently in the NFL. DeMeco is as close to Mike Singletary as you can find in the league. But, I don't see the type of overwheming talent that can get to the QB consistantly, or corners that can play on an island. If the Texans were to look to model a successful NFL defense, Monte Kiffin's cover 2 would be the best way to go.

Okoye would be best served playing as a one gap under tackle, and not face NFL guards straight up. The Texans LBs (Ryans, Diles, Adibi) all fit the cover 2 LB mold with thir ability to chase and cover. And the Texans corners (Reeves, Bennett, and even Robinson) would be best utilizied facing the play, rather than having to turn and run. I still think the Texans would need an edge rusher to allow Mario to move to LDE. And a couple of safeties with range and some pop. But, they need that no matter what defensive scheme they go to. Right now, I would be looking for a coordinator with a Tampa 2 background.

I would too. Plus since he'll never get another head coaching job, Marinelli would be here forever like Kiffin. Another guy would be the d-line coach of indy that used to be with the titans, i cant remeber his name right now. I think the cover 2 scheme fits this d line the best.Plus, just like the west coast, its kinda plug and play. The Colts seem to play fast all the time on defense because they dont have to think. Just play your gap and get up the field. If Mario and Okoye were alllowed to just get up the field and not worry about 2 gaps, they would be much better. The colts also plug and play their secondary.

TimeKiller
01-05-2009, 01:44 PM
Hey, Buddy doesn't want a whole defense and we need a line coach....

...I'm just saying...

disaacks3
01-05-2009, 01:56 PM
The Texans have talent on defense. Mario has as much talent as any d-lineman currently in the NFL. DeMeco is as close to Mike Singletary as you can find in the league. But, I don't see the type of overwheming talent that can get to the QB consistantly, or corners that can play on an island. If the Texans were to look to model a successful NFL defense, Monte Kiffin's cover 2 would be the best way to go.

Okoye would be best served playing as a one gap under tackle, and not face NFL guards straight up. The Texans LBs (Ryans, Diles, Adibi) all fit the cover 2 LB mold with thir ability to chase and cover. And the Texans corners (Reeves, Bennett, and even Robinson) would be best utilizied facing the play, rather than having to turn and run. I still think the Texans would need an edge rusher to allow Mario to move to LDE. And a couple of safeties with range and some pop. But, they need that no matter what defensive scheme they go to. Right now, I would be looking for a coordinator with a Tampa 2 background.The thought of this team w/ an even 'marginally-effective' Tampa 2 gives me the "good" kind of shivers.

We're still about 2-3 players away from what we need to be world-beaters, but the talent (until you get to the secondary) is enough to get us IN the playoffs.

4Texans
01-06-2009, 10:18 AM
We need a play making Safety.:bat:

Dread-Head
01-06-2009, 10:20 AM
We need a play making Safety.:bat:

True, but the most powerful weapon in the world is useless unless it's in the right hands. Personally I like that Samoan kid from USC...he's magnificent.

76Texan
01-06-2009, 10:46 AM
Mike and Leslie Frazier played on the '85 Bears 46 defense, and have had some coaching success in the NFL. We we talking about former Oiler Marcus Robertson yesterday, who played under Ryan for a season and now is an assistant with the Titans.

But how many of these guys, even his sons Rex and Rob, still deploy the 46 defense? I haven't seen it used in some time. I think these coaches realize that it takes an extraordinary collection of talent on the defensive front to make that defense work. The type of talent the Texans don't have just yet. Do the Texans need some of Buddy Ryan's attitude on the defense? Couldn't hurt. But, I don't think using Buddy Ryan's defensive schemes would be a great idea.Actually Rex still use the 46, but only rarely.
I'm sure he has a copy of Buddy's playbook and just twitch it some.
Of course having seven first rounders on D allow you to play various defensive schemes.

He can use Suggs at DE, and therefore has 4 linemen and 4 LBs in the game at the same time.

otisbean
01-06-2009, 10:57 AM
The Colts get more out of less from their defense than any team in the league, year in and year out. They start one 1st round draft pick (Freeney) and have zero high priced free agents on defense. They survive because they are committed to the system. The Colts defense has had a couple of poor years due to injuries, specifically Bob Sanders. But, they've been a top 10 defense in points allowed during 4 of Dungy's 7 seasons as head coach, including this season.

Many teams use elements of zone schemes for run blocking, few are totally committed to the concept as the Texans are and the Broncos were. Similarly, all teams utilize cover 2 schemes, but few are as committed as the Bucs and Colts. I would want to bring in a defensive coach that has worked under one of the masters, Kiffin or Dungy. Alan Williams has coached DBs for Dungy and the Colts for 7 seasons, and was in Tampa Bay for a year. If Herm Edwards is fired in KC, that would be a consideration as he was a long time Dungy assistant. There are probably others (including Rod Marinelli, whom I'm not crazy about). I just think that the Texans defense has lacked an identity (well, other than bad), and a committment to the Tampa 2 defense could give them that.

I am a big fan of the tampa 2. I think with the league's emphasis on scoring and the calling of PI and holding, it will be tough to be a great man to man defense. I also think Robinson would make an excellent cover 2 corner and Bennett has potential as a cover 2 corner as well. We just need more speed at LB - hopefully Adibi stays healthy b/c he certainly fits the bill, a RDE and some safety help.

76Texan
01-06-2009, 04:54 PM
On a side note, when Rex brought back the 46 Defense to the Ravens in 05, guess who they had? Weaver and Demps!
Are we sure we want to see that here? http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

But really, I wouldn't mind seeing it here and there.
We can put Okam at NT, TJ at DT, Weaver (or Bulman) and Okoye at DE.
Let Mario be the rushing LB, Adibi (or Diles or Bentley) can be the SAM.
Let Demeco roam free as the MIKE.

Let Wilson stay as the main safety.
Dunta and Bennett (or Reeves) at CB.
Bring the other safety up (whether it's Demps or Ferguson or CC or Harrison).


A variation could be Dunta, Wilson, and Ferguson in the D-backfield.
Add another LB (to make four LBs) if we want more beef up front.

Is that insane or what? :specnatz: