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View Full Version : DT or power back?


badboy
01-02-2009, 05:21 PM
Personally, I would not draft either before 4th round as I think we need FS & DE. In critical areas, we could not stop the run or score in red zone although the latter went somewhat better against Bears.

To me, if we could score TD on only 50 % of time we were in red zone this season, our record would look quite different. This is where focus should be over DT. I think Shonn Green in 3rd is a good way to resolve one of these two positions. I am also thinking we may have our DT in Okam. I think a new DC and one year under his belt may be what he needed.

TEXANS84
01-02-2009, 05:22 PM
Huge DT gap filler. Vince Wilfork type. The defensive line makes or breaks a secondary. You get to the quarterback, you get mistakes...errors...bad decisions that create turnovers. And more than likely, if you win the turnover battle you will win the game.

Polo
01-02-2009, 05:28 PM
I'd like a RB that can consistently pick up short yardage...doesn't have to be a "power" back in my opinion...

And I don't really want more than one DT on the roster that is a space eater...Our DT's are actually good size for the 4-3....Most of those big DT types are picked for 3-4's...

TheRealJoker
01-02-2009, 06:12 PM
BJ Raji would look great in a Texans uniform. Finally would give us the beef in the middle we need to tie up blockers and keep jerseys off DeMeco plus he can collapse the pocket.

We wouldn't be soft in the middle anymore with Raji, he'd turn those 2nd down and 6 plays to 2nd down and 8.

ATXtexanfan
01-02-2009, 06:47 PM
BJ Raji would look great in a Texans uniform. Finally would give us the beef in the middle we need to tie up blockers and keep jerseys off DeMeco plus he can collapse the pocket.

We wouldn't be soft in the middle anymore with Raji, he'd turn those 2nd down and 6 plays to 2nd down and 8.

agree, a true middle LB would be great also if raji wasn't there, wouldn't mind seeing demeco outside ( true being size )

b0ng
01-02-2009, 06:57 PM
The question is what was the last DT taken that made an impact his rookie year that wasn't named Okoye or Sapp? And hell, Okoye has better rookie stats than Sapp did.

So I guess the point is, it seems like if we're drafting a DT, we're not expecting him to really have an impact until much later in his career.

Shit, looking at the stats, it seems like TJ is entering into the "He gets it or he doesn't" portion of his career. That would just make my head spin if TJ somehow gets his act together in his contract year.

beerlover
01-02-2009, 07:03 PM
we need to know who the next DC is going to be first :)

RB, however is a given. 3rd/4th rd. can bring a nice mixture to blend together with Slaton & Moats.

Goatcheese
01-02-2009, 07:49 PM
The question is what was the last DT taken that made an impact his rookie year that wasn't named Okoye or Sapp? And hell, Okoye has better rookie stats than Sapp did.

So I guess the point is, it seems like if we're drafting a DT, we're not expecting him to really have an impact until much later in his career.

Shit, looking at the stats, it seems like TJ is entering into the "He gets it or he doesn't" portion of his career. That would just make my head spin if TJ somehow gets his act together in his contract year.

There are 2 DT positions in a 4-3, and you need starters at both of them. Picking Raji doesn't say anything about Okoye.

ObsiWan
01-02-2009, 08:19 PM
Trade down and get an extra pick or two like we did this year.
:D
but when we do pick, go best DT on the board... RBs can be found on the 2nd day

but like B/L said, we need to know who our DC & DL coaches will be and what scheme they will bring to the team; that'll dictate what kind of guy we need to draft

Lucky
01-02-2009, 09:05 PM
We need to get into the habit of starting draft threads in the draft forum. We don't want to dissuade draft talk, but there's a reason it has it's own forum.

edo783
01-03-2009, 12:34 AM
Aren't we supposed to have that space eating tackle already on the team? I thought that was what Okam is supposed to be.

mexican_texan
01-03-2009, 12:41 AM
He looked alright to me when he played, but Kubiak rarely let him play.

Dread-Head
01-03-2009, 10:44 AM
Saftey.

beerlover
01-04-2009, 11:21 AM
last year Rick Smith was able to address two positions with 1st rd. pick. imagine its possible to repeat the same process if you do your research for DT as oppossed to LT & zbs power RB for ZBS speed RB.

I'm not feeling sorry for the Colts but after watching Indy last night they could sure use the same things (run stopping DT/power RB). lets say Indy's draft board looks something like DT Jerry Peria, Ole Miss / RB Shonn Greene. NFL teams are in compeitition for their services, positioning, posturing, scouting etc. etc. etc. since a team like the Texans hold some advantage in draft position over a playoff team like the Colts, its clear a deal can be struck to satisfy both parties, the question is your research solid enough to support value in return is at least = if not < than your adversary? this is one of the most complex & compelling aspects to me about the draft. I mean its hard enough to evaluate talent then on top of that the competition for these prospects is instense, the last thing you want is get owned by another NFL team especially one in your own division you have to face at least twice a year, yet by the very nature of the game you have to compete against them during & after the seasons year after year :specnatz:

long story short its not either/or its both regardless who the Texans hire for DC :)

WesmanTexanfan
01-04-2009, 01:38 PM
Im posotive our first pick will be either a DE or a FS, i want the DE, but we need both...

running back can wait...

Hottoddie
01-04-2009, 04:52 PM
Aren't we supposed to have that space eating tackle already on the team? I thought that was what Okam is supposed to be.

The problem is that most DT's are carrying around a lot of excess weight & need to be spelled once in a while. They are usually being blocked by two 300+ lb. linemen on every play & that's going to wear down the most conditioned athlete. We need at least 2 space eating DT's to keep the pressure on at all times.

I really like Raji, not only because he's so big & strong, but because he's so quick as well. However, we might be able to land his teammate Ron Brace in the 3rd to 4th round.

In my opinion, there's no bonafide #1 pick at RB this year, with the exception of Beenie Wells & he'll be gone before we pick.

There are 3 DT's & 4 DE's worthy of a 1st round pick this year. One of these should be there when we select. While it's obvious we need a DE to pair with Mario, I'm leaning more towards one of the DT's with the 1st & picking up a DE like Brown or Graham in the 2nd.

beerlover
01-04-2009, 05:30 PM
In my opinion, there's no bonafide #1 pick at RB this year, with the exception of Beenie Wells & he'll be gone before we pick.

have yet to see anyone suggest taking Wells in the 1st. shonn greene or doanld brown on the other hand in a trade down scenero is tempting. thereby still have ability to address DT/DE with quality value in 2nd/3rd!

PHAROAH
01-04-2009, 06:24 PM
we need to know who the next DC is going to be first :)

RB, however is a given. 3rd/4th rd. can bring a nice mixture to blend together with Slaton & Moats.I agree we need to know what our defensive scheme will be before it is decided on what players we should draft.

:specnatz:

edo783
01-04-2009, 10:05 PM
The problem is that most DT's are carrying around a lot of excess weight & need to be spelled once in a while. They are usually being blocked by two 300+ lb. linemen on every play & that's going to wear down the most conditioned athlete. We need at least 2 space eating DT's to keep the pressure on at all times.

I really like Raji, not only because he's so big & strong, but because he's so quick as well. However, we might be able to land his teammate Ron Brace in the 3rd to 4th round.

In my opinion, there's no bonafide #1 pick at RB this year, with the exception of Beenie Wells & he'll be gone before we pick.

There are 3 DT's & 4 DE's worthy of a 1st round pick this year. One of these should be there when we select. While it's obvious we need a DE to pair with Mario, I'm leaning more towards one of the DT's with the 1st & picking up a DE like Brown or Graham in the 2nd.

Depth at DT would be fine, but you pick those in rounds 4-7. IMO, DE is the main need in the first, FS in the second and a big RB in the third. FS & DE could be swapped based on how the draft unfolds and who might fall to us. That should get us some fairly high quality people at the three key need areas. Naturally that is subject to change with what happens in FA.

Corrosion
01-04-2009, 11:29 PM
Dont see why we cant have both from the same draft .... as well as fill holes at DE , S , OLB , & C.


Huge DT gap filler. Vince Wilfork type. The defensive line makes or breaks a secondary. You get to the quarterback, you get mistakes...errors...bad decisions that create turnovers. And more than likely, if you win the turnover battle you will win the game.

Good post 84 ...

If Raji's on the board when the Texans pick , unless someone totally unexpected is left , I'm taking him. Then I'm looking to fill the above listed spots in no particular order w/ BPA in the following rounds.

The type of back this team needs now isnt the type of back we have needed for the past 7 years .... Slaton is the starter no doubt about it , now what this team needs is a guy who can come in and move the pile on 3rd or 4th and short or in goal line situations . Basicly a FB type ..... in fact better use of the FB might negate this need all together. These types of players can generally be had later in the draft , possibly even undrafted FA .... leaving the team the luxury of spending the earlier picks on positions of need on the defense and interior OL.

beerlover
01-04-2009, 11:46 PM
did some research of draft busts per position compiled on NFL Draft Scout (paid) from 94-03 picks only. DE position success rate 11-20 only 38.8% while 21-50 30% meaning good value latter in 1st & 2nd. rd. DT, 11-20 success rate 58.3 vs. 21-50 26.7%. RB, 11-20 30% while 21- 50 drops to 6.7%. dated as they are those are some numbers to look into, I'm sure teams/texans have updated current numbers that reflect a more accurate trend.

I wonder if Casserly looked @ these numbers in 2005 when they traded down #13 to #16? they would seem to suggest a safe range to trade down, add a pick & still hit a DT. another really interesting comparison, the RB position was virtually flat 21-50 6.7% or 51-80 6.5%. Slaton was selected 89th.

just food for thought, the highest success rate 11-20 range was Safety/TE both 100% :)

joedinkle
01-05-2009, 10:05 AM
I think Shonn Green in 3rd is a good way to resolve one of these two positions. I am also thinking we may have our DT in Okam.

Shonn Green in the 3rd would be stealing in the worst way possible, but if He's there, we'd better pull the trigger. As far as Okam, I don't get what you guys see in him. Sure, he's got the size, but it seems he lacks the strength and motivation. We've got the money to take Suggs in the offseason. I'm not sure he'll re-sign with the Ravens. If Raji is there at 15 and we get Suggs, our D-line problems are solved. that being said, I'm only for taking Raji if we already have gotten Suggs or another potential DE playmaker. If not, we have to go with Everette Brown or someone like that at 15.

BigBull17
01-05-2009, 12:32 PM
Shonn Green in the 3rd would be stealing in the worst way possible, but if He's there, we'd better pull the trigger. As far as Okam, I don't get what you guys see in him. Sure, he's got the size, but it seems he lacks the strength and motivation. We've got the money to take Suggs in the offseason. I'm not sure he'll re-sign with the Ravens. If Raji is there at 15 and we get Suggs, our D-line problems are solved. that being said, I'm only for taking Raji if we already have gotten Suggs or another potential DE playmaker. If not, we have to go with Everette Brown or someone like that at 15.

I want who ever we get to be coached like the Ravens. What a freakin team of playmakers. Suggs would be awesome in Steel Blue.

badboy
01-06-2009, 01:15 PM
Shonn Green in the 3rd would be stealing in the worst way possible, but if He's there, we'd better pull the trigger. As far as Okam, I don't get what you guys see in him. Sure, he's got the size, but it seems he lacks the strength and motivation. We've got the money to take Suggs in the offseason. I'm not sure he'll re-sign with the Ravens. If Raji is there at 15 and we get Suggs, our D-line problems are solved. that being said, I'm only for taking Raji if we already have gotten Suggs or another potential DE playmaker. If not, we have to go with Everette Brown or someone like that at 15.Many college players benefit from strength & conditioning program in pros. Okam now has one season behind him and a new coaching mind set in 2009. Okoye at 6'3" 303 should be able to hold off a lineman and still get to the RB more than he has. This is why I originally said no DT before 4th. I think some hesitate over Suggs due to injury history.

I believe it was the Walter mock page that earlier had Green in 3rd, but NFL draft scout has in 2nd.

badboy
01-06-2009, 01:21 PM
have yet to see anyone suggest taking Wells in the 1st. shonn greene or doanld brown on the other hand in a trade down scenero is tempting. thereby still have ability to address DT/DE with quality value in 2nd/3rd!You have Green over Wells? Beanie boy looked almost unstoppable against Texas last night in first half. I like Green's 4.54 at his size but don't have a 40 yet on Wells.

beerlover
01-06-2009, 01:39 PM
You have Green over Wells? Beanie boy looked almost unstoppable against Texas last night in first half. I like Green's 4.54 at his size but don't have a 40 yet on Wells.

injury concerns

badboy
01-07-2009, 12:45 PM
injury concerns
Understood. Do you or anyone have any info to share on DE Brandon Graham other than size? I saw one mock with him avail in 2nd but Draft Scout does not have in top 5 players.