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View Full Version : Draft Offense or Defense first?


mussop
12-30-2008, 07:43 PM
Alot of people seem to think this draft has to be used to improve the defense. I agree with this. I dont agree we have to use our first pick on D. If a top OT is available say Monroe or Oher, what Defensive player available at 15 could be more valuable than one of those guys??? No one IMO. Well maybe Curry but cant imagine him slipping to 15.

Blake
12-30-2008, 07:50 PM
Really we already have our bookends, and another tackle might be a bit much. Oher should be gone by 15 IMO and we could have our pick of some really good defensive players such as Mays, Jenkins, Maualuga, Curry or an offensive lineman like Duke Robinson would be preferred by me.

mussop
12-30-2008, 08:12 PM
Im holding out hope our OL will look like this

Oher--Pitts--Mack--Brown--Winston

or

Oher--Pitts--Unger--Brown--Winston

or

Brown--Pitts--Mack--Robinson--Winston



Any of those would complete our OL for many years and help Schaub continue to grow as a QB by giving him the protection he needs. There are just so many positives about adding to our OL. Would improve our running game. Because the middle is stronger we should imprve in short yardage and red zone situations. Better protection means less turnovers. Controling the LOS wears opposing Defenses down and keeps our D fresh.

Im just saying if we have a chance to complete our offense we should consider it. It wouldnt be as bad a thing as some think. Our scouts have proved they can find talent late in the draft. We could still get a starter or 2 and go after a bigtime FA like the CB from Oakland that has a name that soulds like a disease. Add another year of experiens to our very young defensive players and a new coach and scheme who knows?

The1ApplePie
12-30-2008, 08:15 PM
If there is a playmaking WR like Jeremy Macklin there, I couldn't pass on him being next to AJ. That would be some "greatest show on turf" potential.

Goldensilence
12-31-2008, 12:33 AM
If there is a playmaking WR like Jeremy Macklin there, I couldn't pass on him being next to AJ. That would be some "greatest show on turf" potential.

I think Macklin will be next year's Desean Jackson. Won't make it in the first round but will make an impact at Wr and in the return game.

Defense has some holes but I think it was pretty revealing how much better this defense looked when it had some speed at he LB position when Adibi was starting. If we do go defense 1st LB or De. IF we go offense 1st round Duke Robinson and we've got a leg up on sealing a weak interior OL.

DiehardChris
12-31-2008, 01:16 AM
Guys - it's gonna be great to actually have a second round pick this year.

The last time we had a second round choice, some guy named DeMeco Ryans was the pick.

YoungTexanFan
12-31-2008, 01:24 AM
If there is a playmaking WR like Jeremy Macklin there, I couldn't pass on him being next to AJ. That would be some "greatest show on turf" potential.

Why do you keep posting this in different threads? Also, we have grass. Not turf.

infantrycak
12-31-2008, 02:03 AM
Why do you keep posting this in different threads? Also, we have grass. Not turf.

Some people like pissing into the wind. In order for the Texans to take a WR in the 1st it would take some bizarre slide of someone perceived to be a top 5 pick like AJ or Calvin Johnson down to 15 and that ain't happening.

Yippee--I made my overly definitive draft post of the year.

edo783
12-31-2008, 03:12 AM
Let see, we have the number 3 ranked offense and the 22nd ranked defense........what to do.....what to do.....Mmmm, let me think about this for awhile.

thunderkyss
12-31-2008, 03:47 AM
Let see, we have the number 3 ranked offense and the 22nd ranked defense........what to do.....what to do.....Mmmm, let me think about this for awhile.

Let's see..... we've ignored our offense at the top of the draft for the past three years... more or less. Focused on Defense..... mmmm... mmm..

Goatcheese
12-31-2008, 05:00 AM
Barring Monroe, or Oher sitting there when we pick it's not even a question.

Defense is the weakness of this team.

They need a starting NT, SS, LDE, and could stand an upgrade at FS and CB.

Vs the offense which needs nothing, and could stand an upgrade at C, RG, and backup RB.

Silver Oak
12-31-2008, 08:40 AM
if we address either the DL or LB position through free agency, I wouldn't be upset if we drafted OL in the first, but that sieve that we call a rush defense has got to be helped.

Thorn
12-31-2008, 08:46 AM
if we address either the DL or LB position through free agency, I wouldn't be upset if we drafted OL in the first, but that sieve that we call a rush defense has got to be helped.

that's my take as well. Frankly, if they draft another defensive lineman in the first round it wouldn't bother me at all. Especially if a good DE fell to us at pick 15.

HJam72
12-31-2008, 08:51 AM
Let see, we have the number 3 ranked offense and the 22nd ranked defense........what to do.....what to do.....Mmmm, let me think about this for awhile.

Let's see..... we've ignored our offense at the top of the draft for the past three years... more or less. Focused on Defense..... mmmm... mmm..

Don't you guys get it? If we draft nothing but offense, we'll have a top 5 D next year. :mcnugget:

infantrycak
12-31-2008, 08:52 AM
Let's see..... we've ignored our offense at the top of the draft for the past three years... more or less. Focused on Defense..... mmmm... mmm..

No, they haven't--they spent two 1st day picks on a QB, a 1st rounder on a LT, two 3rds on WR and RB and two more thirds on OT's. Looking at the traditional 1st day draft definition they have spent 7 picks on offense and 4 on defense.

HJam72
12-31-2008, 08:56 AM
I think it's amazing how good our special teams are when we hardly ever draft any. :thinking:

I mean when do we draft a punt coverage guy, or a kickoff blocker? :mcnugget:

Ole Miss Texan
12-31-2008, 10:18 AM
I'd take a LT like Oher in a heartbeat. I agree with Mussop. Oher is a much better LT than Brown is, IMO and I'm a big fan of Brown's (doesn't mean I'm right just means I supported the pick and aint a hater). Oher would be a hell of a pass blocker on the left, move Winston in to RG and then Brown to RT (where he doesn't have to consistently see the pass rushing DE/OLBs). Our running game would be unstoppable to the right as if it's not already good.

It wouldn't surprise me if they do that, I think they're focused on making Schaub work and don't like seeing him getting hit so hard so frequently. Salaam isn't going to be our backup much longer and that means Rashad Butler is our backup. We were VERY lucky not to have injuries on the OL this season. If Brown or Winston go down... Schaub is dead. Or Daniels is always in blocking and our offense suffers.

Other than a true franchise LT... go defense. The draft is set up where we will see highly rated Defensive players at our spot. DE, DT, LB, CB, S... we'll have options and maybe even trade down. I suspect the BPA will be on the defensive side.

Ole Miss Texan
12-31-2008, 10:19 AM
I think it's amazing how good our special teams are when we hardly ever draft any. :thinking:

I mean when do we draft a punt coverage guy, or a kickoff blocker? :mcnugget:

???

rarazz00
12-31-2008, 10:59 AM
Defense wins championships. Our team has the wrong identity..."EXPANSION TEAM" according to Michael Strahan...We should concentrate on our defense through the draft. Thats the problem with our team. We have to score a million points and have the ball last because our defense gives up 999,999 points a game.:d:

Ole Miss Texan
12-31-2008, 11:19 AM
Defense wins championships. Our team has the wrong identity..."EXPANSION TEAM" according to Michael Strahan...We should concentrate on our defense through the draft. Thats the problem with our team. We have to score a million points and have the ball last because our defense gives up 999,999 points a game.:d:

Give them some credit, man! That was for the whole season. ;)

The1ApplePie
12-31-2008, 11:53 AM
I think Macklin will be next year's Desean Jackson. Won't make it in the first round but will make an impact at Wr and in the return game.

Defense has some holes but I think it was pretty revealing how much better this defense looked when it had some speed at he LB position when Adibi was starting. If we do go defense 1st LB or De. IF we go offense 1st round Duke Robinson and we've got a leg up on sealing a weak interior OL.

Ideally Maulauga or Spikes at 15 and an offensive playmaker in the second would be the best road to take. Maybe Percy Harvin will be there. Anyone we can move around the field and get matchup problems.

Some people like pissing into the wind. In order for the Texans to take a WR in the 1st it would take some bizarre slide of someone perceived to be a top 5 pick like AJ or Calvin Johnson down to 15 and that ain't happening.

Yippee--I made my overly definitive draft post of the year

How dare people have differnt preferences in football schemes!

You don't need a good defense to win championships. You need a adequate defense to win championships

threetoedpete
12-31-2008, 12:14 PM
Let's see..... we've ignored our offense at the top of the draft for the past three years... more or less. Focused on Defense..... mmmm... mmm..

And the offense is in the top three in the AFC ? And the defense sucks swap water...what did we end up overall 27th ? HMMM HMMM.

How did we lose the lead in the first Jacksonville and Indi games ? The two games that cost us any real shot at making the play offs ? hmmm. hmmmm.

Look they could jump any which way. Take a complimentary RB first...get the best of the bunch. Take Pettigrew to shore up the edges on the pass blocking and have cap insurance on Owen Daniels for next year....Target two guys Later in the draft move back, give themselves the ammo for Erick Wood & Marcus Freeman in the third....take someone they like at Cb at the end of the first round. Which would cover themselves for a Robinson hold out [dump]. Take a highly rated o-lineman and rework the o-line. Unlike 2003, 2004, and 2005 the talent is there. They could bang the o-line in the first.

But clearly beyond doubt the weak link in the chain is on the defensive side of the ball. Curry or Orakpo drops you move up and go get one of them. Orakpo is currently rated as the third DE/OLB on PFW's board...they could sit and have a shot at him at fifteen. Take the chance that Everett Brown or Hardy is there in the second if Orakpo does not make it to fifteen.

Somebody has to get there when they send five . Or they need another beast opposite Mario on second and long or third and long if the are going to make a push in 2009. Bullman Nadding and Deljuan Robinson are fine, but they aren't going to get us over the hump. They represent depth. Young developing players. Okoye is Okoye. When he is going to show up is any body's guess.

Dunta Robinson wants top five CB money. My book no way Jose. Franchise him at nine million ? No way Jose.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Player+Rankings/2008/08top101220.htm

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Player+Rankings/2008/08RegOfPos1220.htm

infantrycak
12-31-2008, 12:16 PM
How dare people have differnt preferences in football schemes!

Sure you are entitled to your preference but sometimes there is just so little chance of something happening it isn't worth the time to discuss it (or repeatedly post about it). I'd like to have Peyton Manning as a Texan, but it ain't happening so no point even bringing it up. I'm not even saying they won't draft a WR, just it is an infinitesimal chance in the 1st.

Dunta Robinson wants top five CB money. My book no way Jose. Franchise him at nine million ? No way Jose.

Where does that come from? I just heard him interviewed and he didn't present any attitude like that at all, didn't make any comments about his being a top tier CB and recognized he still is at 90% at this point.

threetoedpete
12-31-2008, 12:30 PM
Sure you are entitled to your preference but sometimes there is just so little chance of something happening it isn't worth the time to discuss it (or repeatedly post about it). I'd like to have Peyton Manning as a Texan, but it ain't happening so no point even bringing it up. I'm not even saying they won't draft a WR, just it is an infinitesimal chance in the 1st.



Where does that come from? I just heard him interviewed and he didn't present any attitude like that at all, didn't make any comments about his being a top tier CB and recognized he still is at 90% at this point.

Last one I heard was the gauntlet being thrown. He wants to be paid. Now are we talking being paid as a new reasonable deal. Or being paid at seven to nine million per year with sugar on top ? The one I saw on KPRC...he wants top five money.

Ole Miss Texan
12-31-2008, 12:56 PM
I'm against drafting a WR in rounds 1 or 2 this year.

Not a big fan of Jackson on our team. He'd probably be LDE while Mario is RDE?

threetoedpete
12-31-2008, 02:24 PM
I'm against drafting a WR in rounds 1 or 2 this year.

Not a big fan of Jackson on our team. He'd probably be LDE while Mario is RDE?

The only Wr's I'm thinking about are guys we can waive in August and bring back on the PS after they clear waivers. Worst case scenario guys.
Thought Hakeem Nicks had a very productive bowl game.

What we don't know is if Jacoby Jones is out of chances or not.

I'm with you on Jackson also...I think he's exactly like Weaver. Even the light Penn State guy at his weight and the Norwood Kid from South Carolina have more appeal to me than Jackson does.
Might be able to stand those two up with enough reps.

ObsiWan
12-31-2008, 09:32 PM
I think it's amazing how good our special teams are when we hardly ever draft any. :thinking:

I mean when do we draft a punt coverage guy, or a kickoff blocker? :mcnugget:

You're kidding, right?
What do you think those 2nd day DBs and LBs are for? And did you miss the drafting of Jacoby Jones??

HJam72
12-31-2008, 09:37 PM
You're kidding, right?
What do you think those 2nd day DBs and LBs are for? And did you miss the drafting of Jacoby Jones??

Yes, I was kidding.

ObsiWan
12-31-2008, 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by threetoedpete http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1088867#post1088867)
Dunta Robinson wants top five CB money. My book no way Jose. Franchise him at nine million ? No way Jose.
Where does that come from? I just heard him interviewed and he didn't present any attitude like that at all, didn't make any comments about his being a top tier CB and recognized he still is at 90% at this point.

What does this Dunta quote (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5072) tell you? He doesn't specifically say the words "top five money", but....

(on if he thinks he proved everything he needed to prove to be paid like one of the top corners in the league) “Oh, no doubt. I came into this thing, I missed a year, I practiced for three days and I jumped right into the season. Did I play at the level that I was playing at in 2007? Of course not. I missed a lot of time. I missed a lot of practice time and I wasn’t 100 percent, but did I show enough improvement to say, ‘OK, give this guy an offseason and he should be back to his normal self in 2009?’ Yeah, I showed that. So yeah, I think from the way I played—you know, I watch a lot of corners. Even with the injury I had, I still didn’t see too many guys playing that much better than me.”

(on how he would feel if he got the franchise tag put on him) “How would I feel? I wouldn’t be happy about it. You want something long-term. You want to know that you’re going to be locked down for a while. So, I definitely wouldn’t be happy about being franchised, but that’s the way this thing goes and that’s the business part of it.”

infantrycak
01-01-2009, 02:29 AM
What does this Dunta quote (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5072) tell you? He doesn't specifically say the words "top five money", but....

Tells me he thinks he is a top level CB when at 100% and that he is negotiating a contact. So two statements:

1) Statements by fans that he wants top 5 money are BS and
2) Heck if I am wrong, let him walk.

He acknowledged last week he was at 90% right now and that he played this year just to try to earn a contract at all. Not one iota of "I am the best despite having proven it." But hey, a certain % of players will be unreasonable and a bigger % of fans will be pessimistic.

eriadoc
01-01-2009, 02:36 AM
Generally speaking, I say draft defensively first. However, the team is just good enough that they can afford to draft BPA over need, even if that means an offensive player. There are probably only three positions we won't draft a key contributor for - QB, MLB, and maybe OT. We probably have our tackles taken care of, though depth is key. Our QB situation is taken care of. Our MLB is set for a long time. We still need a starting DE, starting CB, starting OLBs, starting DTs, and starting safeties. On offense, we are fine, but if a top flight WR fell to us, you'd have to consider it. If a top RB fell to us, you'd have to consider it.

In summary, draft BPA.

thunderkyss
01-01-2009, 10:15 AM
On offense, we are fine, but if a top flight WR fell to us, you'd have to consider it. If a top RB fell to us, you'd have to consider it.

In summary, draft BPA.

I can't imagine entertaining the thoughts of adding another wide receiver... RB sure, WR.... can't imagine.

We underutilized the bunch we have now, and that's still throwing for over 4000 yards. Andre Davis needs more field time. David Anderson needs more field time. Owen Daniels needs more touches. & You cannot take Andre or K-Dub off the field.


We can pass on WR.... we can use a WR to trade down..

& we'll most likely pass on a 1st round running back.

eriadoc
01-01-2009, 10:20 AM
I can't imagine entertaining the thoughts of adding another wide receiver... RB sure, WR.... can't imagine.

We underutilized the bunch we have now, and that's still throwing for over 4000 yards. Andre Davis needs more field time. David Anderson needs more field time. Owen Daniels needs more touches. & You cannot take Andre or K-Dub off the field.


We can pass on WR.... we can use a WR to trade down..

& we'll most likely pass on a 1st round running back.

I can't imagine taking any WR, but as I said, if a top flight WR fell to us, you'd have to consider it. For example, if Crabtree fell to 15 by some miracle, you don't think we'd have to take a long, hard look at that? I do. Of course, that won't happen, but it's the example I'm talking about.

infantrycak
01-01-2009, 10:27 AM
We underutilized the bunch we have now, and that's still throwing for over 4000 yards. Andre Davis needs more field time. David Anderson needs more field time. Owen Daniels needs more touches. & You cannot take Andre or K-Dub off the field.

OK, I agree on the WR conclusion, but huh on underutilized?

4th ranked passing O
#1 WR in the league
#2 ahead of quite a few #1's
OD 3rd in the league
2nd highest in the league on passes over 20 yards
2nd highest in the league on 1st down %

Hard to argue for underutilized unless we are going to a 4 wide set and Slaton can watch from the sideline.

edo783
01-01-2009, 11:03 AM
OK, I agree on the WR conclusion, but huh on underutilized?

4th ranked passing O
#1 WR in the league
#2 ahead of quite a few #1's
OD 3rd in the league
2nd highest in the league on passes over 20 yards
2nd highest in the league on 1st down %

Hard to argue for underutilized unless we are going to a 4 wide set and Slaton can watch from the sideline.

There you go with another one of those fact based responses. How do you expect guys to pimp their agendas if you keep doing that?:)

TexanSam
01-01-2009, 12:26 PM
I can't imagine taking any WR, but as I said, if a top flight WR fell to us, you'd have to consider it. For example, if Crabtree fell to 15 by some miracle, you don't think we'd have to take a long, hard look at that? I do. Of course, that won't happen, but it's the example I'm talking about.


My guess is that if a guy like Crabtree or another top WR or RB fell to us, we would probably trade down if he were the best player available.

I say draft BPA as well unless it's a position we don't need any help in. If there aren't any trades available, I would draft for need in that situation