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View Full Version : Quick hitter on firings and I'll bet I know who the replacements are


LZ
12-30-2008, 05:28 PM
I just knocked out a quick hit blog entry on my thoughts on the firings and who I think will replace the coaches.

I was surprised by John Hoke's firing but I'm fairly certain I know who his replacement will be. Once you read the entry, you'll probably agree.

Richard Smith got whacked because Gary Kubiak wanted things to get better. Truth be told, I think Smith had to go. The fact that Frank Bush is already on the staff made it an easier decision in all likelihood.

As for Jethro, I was surprised he was let go too, but since he coaches a position with a ton of money invested in it, it isn't entirely surprising to see him gone. The Texans may have someone already in mind for his position as well.

Here is my blog entry (http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2008/12/post_73.html#more). They just put it up.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2008, 05:31 PM
Thanks LZ.

Bio on David Gibbs - link (http://www.kcchiefs.com/coach/david_gibbs/)

David Gibbs enters his third campaign as the Chiefs defensive backs coach in 2008. He owns six seasons of experience coaching in the AFC West after enjoying a four-year stint with Denver (2001-04). He joined Kansas City after serving as the defensive coordinator/secondary coach at Auburn in 2005.
Under Gibbs’ leadership a year ago, the Chiefs ranked fifth in the NFL in pass defense, allowing 188.9 yards per game. Kansas City permitted 17 TD passes in 2007, a mark that tied for fourth in the NFL and was the club’s lowest total since ‘98. Gibbs was instrumental in the development of second-year safeties Jarrad Page and Bernard Pollard, who both became full-time starters in 2007.

In his first season with the Chiefs, Gibbs led a Chiefs secondary that allowed only 208.4 passing yards per game in 2006. Kansas City also limited opponents to only 45 completions of 20+ yards as the Chiefs relinquished just one 300-yard passer.

Under his direction in 2005, the Auburn defense permitted 15.5 points per game to rank sixth in the NCAA. His squad also led the SEC with 39.0 sacks. The Tigers tied for second in the NCAA by allowing only eight touchdown passes on the season and 199.0 passing yards per game.

Prior to joining Auburn, Gibbs spent four seasons coaching the defensive backfield for the Broncos in his first NFL coaching stop. In his second season overseeing the enitre Denver secondary in 2003, the Broncos ranked fourth in the league in total defense, limiting opponents to 277.1 yards per game. Gibbs implemented a pair of first-year starters that season as Denver finished sixth in the NFL in pass defense, allowing 176.8 yards per game.

Gibbs spent 10 years at the collegiate level before entering the NFL ranks, including four seasons as the defensive coordinator/secondary coach at the University of Minnesota. In ‘97 he became the youngest defensive coordinator in NCAA Division I-A when the Gophers hired him to lead their defense. He oversaw a dramatic turnaround of a defensive unit that ranked last in the Big Ten prior to his arrival, but improved to fourth in total defense by ‘99. Minnesota led the Big Ten in pass defense (179.4) and ranked second in pass defense efficiency (98.3) and scoring defense (16.3), each figure ranking eighth in the nation that season.

Hardcore Texan
12-30-2008, 05:33 PM
Sounds reasonable with Gibbs and Bush. I hope you are right about Marinelli, although I think he's more likely to be a DC somewhere instead of just coaching a line, hope I am wrong.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2008, 05:36 PM
Sounds reasonable with Gibbs and Bush. I hope you are right about Marinelli, although I think he's more likely to be a DC somewhere instead of just coaching a line, hope I am wrong.

Marinelli has some re-inventing of himself to do. Here he could work with some of the best coordinators of his day on both sides of the ball with a fairly talented bunch of players at key positions. He could come here, work on his core competence, post some significant/tangible results and get back on the HC radar within two years.

Vinny
12-30-2008, 05:38 PM
Marinelli has some re-inventing of himself to do. Here he could work with some of the best coordinators of his day on both sides of the ball with a fairly talented bunch of players at key positions. He could come here, work on his core competence, post some significant/tangible results and get back on the HC radar within two years.
He is a classic example of the peter principle.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2008, 05:40 PM
He is a classic example of the peter principle.

I do not see him as HC material myself, but it certainly is a good value proposition for the Texans to be presenting.

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 05:50 PM
With Shanny senior out, Gibbs may be looking for a job.

Texan_Bill
12-30-2008, 05:50 PM
Good stuff LZ... Many here guessed about Bush, but I don't think anyone saw the David Gibbs deal.

Texan_Bill
12-30-2008, 05:52 PM
LZ, could Mike Shanahan's firing in Denver affect the situation here in Houston? Bob Slowik?

LonerATO
12-30-2008, 05:54 PM
You still have Nolan out there as well

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 05:57 PM
1. Will this affect Alex Gibbs' status with the Texans? The Broncos cleaned house, but they have GOT to bring in personnel to provide some offensive continuity. You just don't install a new offensive system when your offense is as elite as Denver's is.

2. Will this affect Kyle Shanahan? Could he and/or Gibbs be headed for Denver? Again - they're going to want to bring in a staff that can coach the same kind of offense they had in 2008.

Texans_Chick
12-30-2008, 05:59 PM
Here's my viewpoint on the firings.

I have to say that I am completely meh on Frank Bush being the DC. What is the argument that would say that he would be anything better than what we have had?

Blog post: A Texan fan's plea for an experienced defensive coordinator (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2008/12/a_texan_fans_plea_for_an_exper_1.html)

Here's Bush's background:

BUSH’S COACHING LEDGER
2007-08: Senior Defensive Assistant, Houston Texans
2006: Asst. Head Coach/Linebackers, Arizona Cardinals
2004-05: Linebackers, Arizona Cardinals
2001-03: Special Teams, Denver Broncos
2000: Secondary/Nickel Package, Denver Broncos
1995-99: Linebackers, Denver Broncos
1992-94: Linebackers, Houston Oilers
1987-92: Scout, Houston Oilers

Yawn.

There is no salary cap on coaches salaries. Give us a choice that gives us some hope.

Thorn
12-30-2008, 06:05 PM
Here's my viewpoint on the firings.

I have to say that I am completely meh on Frank Bush being the DC. What is the argument that would say that he would be anything better than what we have had?

Blog post: A Texan fan's plea for an experienced defensive coordinator (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2008/12/a_texan_fans_plea_for_an_exper_1.html)

Here's Bush's background:



Yawn.

There is no salary cap on coaches salaries. Give us a choice that gives us some hope.


Long history with Houston and Houston North.

LZ
12-30-2008, 06:10 PM
You still have Nolan out there as well

Nolan is a 3-4 advocate so that knocks him out.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2008, 06:11 PM
I am not enthusiastic about Bush. Kubiak's original thoughts on who to lead the defense, the initial Carr debacle and Kubiak's in game management show me that his gut ain't a good place to find answers.

Staffs are being let go, left and right. I am sure he had a list of folks to interview immediatley and hopefully that list got incrementally bigger with the recent rash of transactions. Take it slow, get the right input and make an informed decision.

LZ
12-30-2008, 06:11 PM
1. Will this affect Alex Gibbs' status with the Texans? The Broncos cleaned house, but they have GOT to bring in personnel to provide some offensive continuity. You just don't install a new offensive system when your offense is as elite as Denver's is.

2. Will this affect Kyle Shanahan? Could he and/or Gibbs be headed for Denver? Again - they're going to want to bring in a staff that can coach the same kind of offense they had in 2008.


If anything, I can see the addition of David Gibbs as a sign that Alex will be back another year (if it happened). I don't think Shanny's firing will have any impact on anything.

b0ng
12-30-2008, 06:11 PM
With Shanny senior out, Gibbs may be looking for a job.

He works one day a week to help set up the gameplan, and works during training camp. Does he want to be a HC and all of that stuff that entails?

rollinstone18
12-30-2008, 06:11 PM
I like the idea of Marinelli as our d-line coach.

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 06:12 PM
If anything, I can see the addition of David Gibbs as a sign that Alex will be back another year (if it happened). I don't think Shanny's firing will have any impact on anything.

Well, thank the gods for that. I hope you're right.

(I'm a worrier)

LZ
12-30-2008, 06:13 PM
I am not enthusiastic about Bush. Kubiak's original thoughts on who to lead the defense, the initial Carr debacle and Kubiak's in game management show me that his gut ain't a good place to find answers.

Staffs are being let go, left and right. I am sure he had a list of folks to interview immediatley and hopefully that list got incrementally bigger with the recent rash of transactions. Take it slow, get the right input and make an informed decision.


In this business "who you know" is critical in many hirings. That isn't to say that those coaches aren't competent, it's just that head coaches like to have guys around them they know and trust and if Kubiak has shown anything it is that he likes to have a familiarity with players/coaches.

Texans_Chick
12-30-2008, 06:13 PM
Long history with Houston and Houston North.

Really, unless it is an offensive guy from Denver, it isn't someone who I am particularly enthusiastic about.

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 06:14 PM
LZ,

The Broncos can't POSSIBLY change their offensive scheme, right? I mean, they HAVE to bring in guys who will run a scheme as close to 2008 as possible, right? I mean, they have an ELITE offense! No way they can abandon that! I'm shocked. Shocked.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2008, 06:16 PM
In this business "who you know" is critical in many hirings. That isn't to say that those coaches aren't competent, it's just that head coaches like to have guys around them they know and trust and if Kubiak has shown anything it is that he likes to have a familiarity with players/coaches.

I am familar with the annual carousel from my days as a collegiate basketball coach.

I am all for familiarity, and its benefits. However, Kubiak's familiarity with how to correct this defense has been missing and in my opinion it starts with the familiarity of his staff.

Shaft75
12-30-2008, 06:19 PM
Are there any good, young Colorado State coaches that we could pick up?

Texans_Chick
12-30-2008, 06:19 PM
In this business "who you know" is critical in many hirings. That isn't to say that those coaches aren't competent, it's just that head coaches like to have guys around them they know and trust and if Kubiak has shown anything it is that he likes to have a familiarity with players/coaches.

That would be more reassuring if Denver defenses were among the best in the league.

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 06:20 PM
He works one day a week to help set up the gameplan, and works during training camp. Does he want to be a HC and all of that stuff that entails?

I mis-read something and was referring to Alex Gibbs' son.

Thorn
12-30-2008, 06:20 PM
Really, unless it is an offensive guy from Denver, it isn't someone who I am particularly enthusiastic about.

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I really want Bush as DC, it's just that it seems a likely choice to me given the circumstances. I'm hoping the Texans shop around for a while before naming anyone.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2008, 06:22 PM
Don't get me wrong, it's not that I really want Bush as DC, it's just that it seems a likely choice to me given the circumstances. I'm hoping the Texans shop around for a while before naming anyone.

Not to speak for TC, but yeah a plan B is always nice. I just hope that there is a plan A, A1, A2, A3 , etc... :specnatz:

GP
12-30-2008, 06:28 PM
LZ says Nolan is a 3-4 guy, but I could have sworn I read something that said he was both a 3-4 and/or a 4-3...that Nolan has done both, or has been involved with both before?

I wouldn't mind seeing BOTH styles. Doesn't Pittsburgh go 3-4 and 4-3 to give different looks and disguise/confuse things in the heat of a game?

Bush being retained, but not yet "named" DC is (to me, and others) an indication that Bush is Plan B if we don't get A, or A-1, or A-2, etc., as Kaiser pointed out.

I wonder Bush had influence and/or direction of the defense in the games where our defense looked radically better than usual?

b0ng
12-30-2008, 06:28 PM
I'd put my money on Bush being the DC. It just sounds like something the Texans would do, although it will be interesting to see how Bush will fill the now vacant positional coach slots. I don't think he's going to try to run the defense with just him, Holland, and a broken down Ray Rhodes.

hadaad
12-30-2008, 06:31 PM
I, for one, *don't* want Rod Marinelli as our D-Line coach. He has that 0-16 stink on him. Talented or not, if we take him on, we will pay. <shudder>

IMA TEXAN
12-30-2008, 06:31 PM
I have to say that I am completely meh on Frank Bush being the DC. What is the argument that would say that he would be anything better than what we have had?

I tend to agree - try to obtain excellence instead of just promoting from within. However if he has a pulse he has to be better than what we have had...

LZ
12-30-2008, 06:31 PM
LZ,

The Broncos can't POSSIBLY change their offensive scheme, right? I mean, they HAVE to bring in guys who will run a scheme as close to 2008 as possible, right? I mean, they have an ELITE offense! No way they can abandon that! I'm shocked. Shocked.

Why couldn't they change that scheme? They started to depart a little bit from the pure zone stuff this year with Cutler at the helm. I don't think they are married to the ZBS.

LZ
12-30-2008, 06:34 PM
LZ says Nolan is a 3-4 guy, but I could have sworn I read something that said he was both a 3-4 and/or a 4-3...that Nolan has done both, or has been involved with both before?

I wouldn't mind seeing BOTH styles. Doesn't Pittsburgh go 3-4 and 4-3 to give different looks and disguise/confuse things in the heat of a game?

Bush being retained, but not yet "named" DC is (to me, and others) an indication that Bush is Plan B if we don't get A, or A-1, or A-2, etc., as Kaiser pointed out.

I wonder Bush had influence and/or direction of the defense in the games where our defense looked radically better than usual?

Nolan tried to turn SF into a 3-4 defense but never really got the defensive front right. The Steelers run a 3-4 with variations based upon additional DBs and occasionally an extra LB and one less d-linemen. The Texans aren't even remotely close to having the right LBs for a 3-4 in my opinion. The d-line would actually be a pretty good fit, however.

nunusguy
12-30-2008, 06:41 PM
The d-line would actually be a pretty good fit, however.

Weaver was a 3-4 end in Baltimore before coming here and Marios's would certainly be a great 3-4 end (if not the biggest 3-4 OLB on record).
We just need a NT ?

GP
12-30-2008, 06:41 PM
Nolan tried to turn SF into a 3-4 defense but never really got the defensive front right. The Steelers run a 3-4 with variations based upon additional DBs and occasionally an extra LB and one less d-linemen. The Texans aren't even remotely close to having the right LBs for a 3-4 in my opinion. The d-line would actually be a pretty good fit, however.

Hmmm...we have some speed with DeMeco, Adibi, and possibly Diles if his rehab goes well. They could cover WRs and/or rush the passer. Is your opinion on our LBs not being a fit due to their smallish size, getting pushed over on the run by a beefy o-line?

Regardless, I don't see Mike Nolan desiring to come to Houston. Which I think is coupled with our perception of McNair whom we think is too tight with the wallet when it comes to grabbing really good, well-known coaches.

Frank Bush is looking more and more like he'll be the new DC. Do you think Bush was calling the defense when we went on the 4-game winning streak? Those four games, and the Chicago game, were in stark contrast to the Oakland game. Our defense in the Oak game was very Richard Smith: Lots of bend-but-don't-break mentality the whole way.

Second Honeymoon
12-30-2008, 06:43 PM
Here's my viewpoint on the firings.

I have to say that I am completely meh on Frank Bush being the DC. What is the argument that would say that he would be anything better than what we have had?

Blog post: A Texan fan's plea for an experienced defensive coordinator (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2008/12/a_texan_fans_plea_for_an_exper_1.html)

Here's Bush's background:



Yawn.

There is no salary cap on coaches salaries. Give us a choice that gives us some hope.

That has been my point forever. Why not spend the extra nickle and get the best guy available? Is Bush actually the best guy available? or just the guy most likely to agree to come to Houston?

Another caveat: One thing is for sure, the longer the successor isn't rolled out in a press conference the greater chance that it is someone NOT named Bush as DC. I think if it was Bush, we would have known immediately. Methinks there may be a search/courting process going on behind the scenes.

Just a crazy day today in the NFL. Fisher is now the longest tenured coach in the league.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2008, 06:45 PM
That has been my point forever. Why not spend the extra nickle and get the best guy available? Is Bush actually the best guy available? or just the guy most likely to agree to come to Houston?

Just a crazy day today in the NFL. Fisher is now the longest tenured coach in the league.

Fisher was already the longest active tenured NFL coach.

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 06:47 PM
Why couldn't they change that scheme? They started to depart a little bit from the pure zone stuff this year with Cutler at the helm. I don't think they are married to the ZBS.

I just can't imagine a team changing much after the numbers they put up on 2008.

Do you think this is the type of situation that would coax Cowher out of retirement? Clearly he could "buy the groceries AND cook the meals" in Denver... and Bolen isn't a cheap owner... great city... great fans... sounds like a good fit.

spurstexanstros
12-30-2008, 06:50 PM
We need an explosive defense..on that wreaks havoc in the backfield...this will shore up our secondary because Peyton needs to be roughed up and if our defense can routinely get to him..then no qb is safe. We need a Jim Johnson/ Pittsburgh style defense(what is that guys name I am blanking right now)

Anyways teams fear Mario but the rest of the defense not so much , we need to put him in a position to be a superstar and raise the rest. whoever can do that should have the job.

Second Honeymoon
12-30-2008, 06:50 PM
Fisher was already the longest active tenured NFL coach.

doh, well now he is the longest tenured by a country mile. i can't think of anyone outside of Belicheat that is anywhere close now.

GP
12-30-2008, 06:51 PM
I just can't imagine a team changing much after the numbers they put up on 2008.

Do you think this is the type of situation that would coax Cowher out of retirement? Clearly he could "buy the groceries AND cook the meals" in Denver... and Bolen isn't a cheap owner... great city... great fans... sounds like a good fit.

Cowher wouldn't talk to the Browns, but is reportedly set to talk to the Jets. THAT surprised me: I figured he would jump at the Browns job, with the rabid fan base, his roots there, etc.

Why would anybody want to coach the Jets? Has to be the most unforgiving job out there...other than the Giants.

Thorn
12-30-2008, 06:52 PM
We need an explosive defense..on that wreaks havoc in the backfield...this will shore up our secondary because Peyton needs to be roughed up and if our defense can routinely get to him..then no qb is safe. We need a Jim Johnson/ Pittsburgh style defense(what is that guys name I am blanking right now)

Anyways teams fear Mario but the rest of the defense not so much , we need to put him in a position to be a superstar and raise the rest. whoever can do that should have the job.

I agree, but until we get a good bookend DE on the other side of Mario, that isn't happening.

Second Honeymoon
12-30-2008, 06:53 PM
We need an explosive defense..on that wreaks havoc in the backfield...this will shore up our secondary because Peyton needs to be roughed up and if our defense can routinely get to him..then no qb is safe. We need a Jim Johnson/ Pittsburgh style defense(what is that guys name I am blanking right now)

Anyways teams fear Mario but the rest of the defense not so much , we need to put him in a position to be a superstar and raise the rest. whoever can do that should have the job.

Dick LaBeau. He may get another chance at HC once the Steelers season ends though. He was just given the lifetime achievement award by the Steelers so maybe he may want to venture out again and challenge himself. His age is getting up there but I think he might get a call or two. So he didn't turn the Bengals franchise around. Should that be a Scarlet letter in regards to him being a head coach again?

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 06:56 PM
Dick LaBeau. He may get another chance at HC once the Steelers season ends though. He was just given the lifetime achievement award by the Steelers so maybe he may want to venture out again and challenge himself. His age is getting up there but I think he might get a call or two. So he didn't turn the Bengals franchise around. Should that be a Scarlet letter in regards to him being a head coach again?

I think if Dick LaBeau wanted to be a head coach, he'd be one. I think he loves what he does. LZ has ties to the Steeler organization - he could probably shed a little light.

Second Honeymoon
12-30-2008, 07:11 PM
I think if Dick LaBeau wanted to be a head coach, he'd be one. I think he loves what he does. LZ has ties to the Steeler organization - he could probably shed a little light.

He does love what he does and is probably very happy in Pittsburgh but he may want a new challenge since he was knighted by the Steelers. I just feel if he was open to it, he would be on at least one team's short list...and there are some nice jobs out there this offseason. Denver comes to mind. That is a good job with a pretty good owner and in a poor division. Someone could have a lot of success in Denver.

Vinny
12-30-2008, 08:04 PM
Hmmm...we have some speed with DeMeco, Adibi, and possibly Diles if his rehab goes well. They could cover WRs and/or rush the passer. Is your opinion on our LBs not being a fit due to their smallish size, getting pushed over on the run by a beefy o-line?
3-4 OLB's have to take on offensive tackles and have to cover backs in space...our guys could cover in space but would get eaten up vs the run since there are only 3 linemen covering 5 offensive linemen....gotta have more size to be a credible 3-4 olb.

Hervoyel
12-30-2008, 08:14 PM
Nolan is a 3-4 advocate so that knocks him out.

Is he incapable of coaching a 4-3? I am wondering this because several of the "3-4 guys" out there have some experience with a 4-3 and/or a hybrid of both. I don't think they're going to knock a guy who is like that off their list. I just don't know if Nolan has that flexibility to him.

Vinny
12-30-2008, 08:16 PM
Is he incapable of coaching a 4-3? I am wondering this because several of the "3-4 guys" out there have some experience with a 4-3 and/or a hybrid of both. I don't think they're going to knock a guy who is like that off their list. I just don't know if Nolan has that flexibility to him.
his defenses in san fran were just awful...as were his pressers. I'd pass.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2008, 08:19 PM
Ray Lewis is appearing to be one of those rare players that gets coaches hired. I am purely bloviating from a pre-revisionist viewpoint, via the present.

The1ApplePie
12-30-2008, 08:27 PM
Is he incapable of coaching a 4-3? I am wondering this because several of the "3-4 guys" out there have some experience with a 4-3 and/or a hybrid of both. I don't think they're going to knock a guy who is like that off their list. I just don't know if Nolan has that flexibility to him.

Any coach worth his salt can coach both

The 49ers run a 4-3 more than a 3-4, but I would take Mangini well over any other coordinator available

PHAROAH
12-30-2008, 08:28 PM
I would like to take a different approach with an attacking style Defense like what Philadelphia has going on. I recommend bringing someone fresh and energetic like Defensive Back Coach Sean McDermott from Philly. He has been on there staff for 10 years as DB & Linebackers coach so he knows Jim Johnson attacking scheme inside out.

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 08:42 PM
Any coach worth his salt can coach both

The 49ers run a 4-3 more than a 3-4, but I would take Mangini well over any other coordinator available

Name a couple coaches who built top 10 defenses in both?--and no, Belichick occasional mix up the look doesn't count as both.

I would like to take a different approach with an attacking style Defense like what Philadelphia has going on. I recommend bringing someone fresh and energetic like Defensive Back Coach Sean McDermott from Philly. He has been on there staff for 10 years as DB & Linebackers coach so he knows Jim Johnson attacking scheme inside out.

That's the kind of coach I want considered and not ruled out on a prior DC's only need apply rule.

The1ApplePie
12-30-2008, 09:04 PM
Name a couple coaches who built top 10 defenses in both?--and no, Belichick occasional mix up the look doesn't count as both.

Rex Ryan right now

Dallas Cowboys aren't pure 3-4 either.

The Baltimore Ravens are killing people with a hybrid defense right now

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 09:20 PM
Rex Ryan right now

Dallas Cowboys aren't pure 3-4 either.

The Baltimore Ravens are killing people with a hybrid defense right now

Not even close. Rex Ryan has only run a 3-4 as DC. This "hybrid" stuff is not a 4-3. It is a 3-4 with 3-4 personnel who occasionally scheme their look. Note the DE's converted into OLB's in Terrell Suggs, Demarcus Ware and Adalius Thomas.

So once again--name a coach who has run a top 10 4-3 and a separate top 10 3-4?

DocBar
12-30-2008, 09:40 PM
Cowher wouldn't talk to the Browns, but is reportedly set to talk to the Jets. THAT surprised me: I figured he would jump at the Browns job, with the rabid fan base, his roots there, etc.

Why would anybody want to coach the Jets? Has to be the most unforgiving job out there...other than the Giants.
From what I've read, Cowher doesn't want to coach in the AFC North because of the Steelers.
I can't wait to see who our new DC is, but I hope I have to. Take your time and do it right.

painekiller
12-30-2008, 10:08 PM
LZ I like the idea of Bush as DC.

David Gibbs is great pick up. That would make Alex happy and Kubiak wants Alex happy. In fact it was the way Shanahan handled the release of David that pissed Alex off and he does not have a lot of love for the man right now. Impressive resume and stats. We need some of that.

Rod Marinelli might not like the DL title so juts make him Assistant HC/ DL, similar to Singletary's former title in SF. I am sure the talent of our DL would inspire most DL coaches. And Okoye needs Warren Sapps old coach, now.

edo783
12-30-2008, 10:09 PM
I wonder why just a subset of the assistants were packed off with Dickie? Could they be the guys that Bush would want if he were picked? IIRC, most of the time a new DC pretty much blows up the assistants. Might keep one or two, especially if he has worked with them before, but usually wants to bring in his own hand picked guys. Kind of leads me to believe that Bush is pretty much the one, barring some sort of special event/guy, and they are his guys and he is probably putting together a list of replacements for the ones that left. I'm not usually a conspiracy enthusiast, but this one looks like the fix might be in IMO. They will go though the motions, run a few guys through the drill and wind up right where they started......Bush.

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 10:20 PM
I wonder why just a subset of the assistants were packed off with Dickie? Could they be the guys that Bush would want if he were picked? IIRC, most of the time a new DC pretty much blows up the assistants. Might keep one or two, especially if he has worked with them before, but usually wants to bring in his own hand picked guys. Kind of leads me to believe that Bush is pretty much the one, barring some sort of special event/guy, and they are his guys and he is probably putting together a list of replacements for the ones that left. I'm not usually a conspiracy enthusiast, but this one looks like the fix might be in IMO. They will go though the motions, run a few guys through the drill and wind up right where they started......Bush.

Maybe, but I can see a theme in the selections of who went and who has stayed so far--player development

The Texans have picked a bunch of players with "potential."

Holland LB's--I think they like the development of not just Demeco but Diles and Adibi.

Franklin--while I know we are happy with Mario's progress, I have witnessed several conflicts on the sideline between the DL (with Mario being restrained at one point in 2007) and Franklin, plus Mario asking for a different scheme on top of lack of development in TJ and Okoye.

Hoke--Dunta came along quickly while Glenn was here and then largely flatlined. Bennett regressed this year, Reeves didn't get coached up to his physical ability and Molden didn't get coached onto the field as a CB Rhodes took on safeties and moved to the vets.

All kind of a spin off of Dunta's comment that the D has talent that wasn't being utilized on the field.

Giant Tiger
12-30-2008, 10:21 PM
I like the idea of Marinelli as our d-line coach.

IIRC, in his book Simeon Rice said that as well.

edo783
12-30-2008, 10:25 PM
Maybe, but I can see a theme in the selections of who went and who has stayed so far--player development

The Texans have picked a bunch of players with "potential."

Holland LB's--I think they like the development of not just Demeco but Diles and Adibi.

Franklin--while I know we are happy with Mario's progress, I have witnessed several conflicts on the sideline between the DL (with Mario being restrained at one point in 2007) and Franklin, plus Mario asking for a different scheme on top of lack of development in TJ and Okoye.

Hoke--Dunta came along quickly while Glenn was here and then largely flatlined. Bennett regressed this year, Reeves didn't get coached up to his physical ability and Molden didn't get coached onto the field as a CB Rhodes took on safeties and moved to the vets.

All kind of a spin off of Dunta's comment that the D has talent that wasn't being utilized on the field.

No doubt about all that in my mind. Those guys should be gone. Just kind of curious as to why the other assistants were kept along with Bush. Just looks a bit curious at this point. Might just be a coincidence, but......

Heath Shuler
12-30-2008, 10:35 PM
Not even close. Rex Ryan has only run a 3-4 as DC. This "hybrid" stuff is not a 4-3. It is a 3-4 with 3-4 personnel who occasionally scheme their look. Note the DE's converted into OLB's in Terrell Suggs, Demarcus Ware and Adalius Thomas.

So once again--name a coach who has run a top 10 4-3 and a separate top 10 3-4?
Mike Zimmer

Lucky
12-30-2008, 10:40 PM
name a coach who has run a top 10 4-3 and a separate top 10 3-4?
Maybe the Dolphins DC in the 70's, Bill Arnsparger? I think he's retired now.


Franklin--on top of lack of development in TJ and Okoye.
Okoye has been the black mark on Smithiak's draft record. Franklin had to take the fall for that.

IIRC, in his book Simeon Rice said that as well.
Simeon Rice wrote a book? Someone read a book written by Simeon Rice?

name a coach who has run a top 10 4-3 and a separate top 10 3-4?
Mike Zimmer
We have a winner!

Hagar
12-30-2008, 10:40 PM
The part I find curious is that Ray Rhodes is still around. From his Texans resume:

RHODES’ COACHING LEDGER
2008: Defensive Backs Assistant, Houston Texans
2006-07: Special Projects/Defense, Seattle Seahawks
2003-05: Defensive Coordinator, Seattle Seahawks
2001-02: Defensive Coordinator, Denver Broncos
2000: Defensive Coordinator, Washington Redskins
1999: Head Coach, Green Bay Packers
1995-98: Head Coach, Philadelphia Eagles
1994: Defensive Coordinator, San Francisco 49ers
1992-93: Defensive Coordinator, Green Bay Packers
1983-91: Defensive Backs, San Francisco 49ers
1981-82: Assistant Secondary, San Francisco 49ers

There's alot of DC work there and most looks pretty good.

The Pencil Neck
12-30-2008, 10:43 PM
No doubt about all that in my mind. Those guys should be gone. Just kind of curious as to why the other assistants were kept along with Bush. Just looks a bit curious at this point. Might just be a coincidence, but......

Rhodes is going to stick around because Kubes looks at him as a valuable coaching resource like Gibbs.

They kept the other guys because Kubes thinks they're good. I'm sure they're guys that Bush would want on his staff if he's hired. If they hire a new DC, I'd wouldn't be surprised if some of the guys weren't let go or shifted to no-responsibility roles before being faded out. Except for Rhodes and probably Holland.

The Pencil Neck
12-30-2008, 10:45 PM
The part I find curious is that Ray Rhodes is still around. From his Texans resume:

RHODES’ COACHING LEDGER
2008: Defensive Backs Assistant, Houston Texans
2006-07: Special Projects/Defense, Seattle Seahawks
2003-05: Defensive Coordinator, Seattle Seahawks
2001-02: Defensive Coordinator, Denver Broncos
2000: Defensive Coordinator, Washington Redskins
1999: Head Coach, Green Bay Packers
1995-98: Head Coach, Philadelphia Eagles
1994: Defensive Coordinator, San Francisco 49ers
1992-93: Defensive Coordinator, Green Bay Packers
1983-91: Defensive Backs, San Francisco 49ers
1981-82: Assistant Secondary, San Francisco 49ers

There's alot of DC work there and most looks pretty good.

Rhodes has heart problems and can't handle the stress of a full-on DC position. If he wanted to be a DC, there are several teams that would give him a job. It's interesting that HE wanted to work with Kubes.

Heck, he got "demoted" in Seattle because he requested the change because of his health issues. IIRC, when he was DC there, they had to make an emergency stop in their airplane because he was having some sort of heart attack or something.

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 10:47 PM
Mike Zimmer

We have a winner!

Congratulations, which to me proves the point. 4-3 guys and 3-4 guys are not generally interchangeable. If it was easy, there would be more examples. Even Zimmer only achieved a top 10 3-4 defense on points once (twice on yards).

Hagar
12-30-2008, 11:00 PM
Rhodes has heart problems and can't handle the stress of a full-on DC position. If he wanted to be a DC, there are several teams that would give him a job. It's interesting that HE wanted to work with Kubes.

Heck, he got "demoted" in Seattle because he requested the change because of his health issues. IIRC, when he was DC there, they had to make an emergency stop in their airplane because he was having some sort of heart attack or something.Cool, learn something new every day.

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 11:19 PM
Congratulations, which to me proves the point. 4-3 guys and 3-4 guys are not generally interchangeable. If it was easy, there would be more examples. Even Zimmer only achieved a top 10 3-4 defense on points once (twice on yards).

Exactly. The point is - it's not true that "any coordinator worth his salt" can go back and forth and have success with both. In the current era of the specialized NFL, it's extremely rare if not totally absent.

Heath Shuler
12-30-2008, 11:26 PM
Congratulations, which to me proves the point. 4-3 guys and 3-4 guys are not generally interchangeable. If it was easy, there would be more examples. Even Zimmer only achieved a top 10 3-4 defense on points once (twice on yards).
iirc Dom ran a 4-3 with the Jags when he was DC and a 3-4 when he was the steelers’ DC.

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 11:34 PM
iirc Dom ran a 4-3 with the Jags when he was DC and a 3-4 when he was the steelers’ DC.

Gah. Please lock this thread. LOL

Heath Shuler
12-30-2008, 11:35 PM
You're kidding right as that for an example?

No when he was DC.

texanhead08
12-30-2008, 11:50 PM
Rex Ryan right now

Dallas Cowboys aren't pure 3-4 either.

The Baltimore Ravens are killing people with a hybrid defense right now

Cowboys are more 3-4 than 4-3 the only thing is Greg Ellis played DE in the old 4-3 they ran and now plays OLB in the 3-4. You have to remember that Wade has ran a 3-4 everywhere he has been remember Bum pretty much invented the defense.

Heath Shuler
12-30-2008, 11:52 PM
Gah. Please lock this thread. LOL

why would the thread need to be locked?

texanhead08
12-30-2008, 11:57 PM
He said lock the thread before someone recomended Dom Capers as DC.

Goldensilence
12-31-2008, 12:27 AM
Would love o see McDermott and Someone else whom I haven't seen much love for is Ron Rivera. Would love to see him as DC, the Bears have been solid but nothing like the defense that carried that team under him.

Hooston Texan
12-31-2008, 12:55 AM
I think we can shoot for the stars this time around. Last time, we had to settle for Richard Smith, but think back to where we were when we hired him in February 2006.

1. The defense was downright awful. We had replaced the two players who held the D together during the early Capers years--Sharper and Glenn--with guys who sported good 40 times but had no ability to actually play (or even understand) football.

2. I believe we had already made our intentions known that we were going to junk the 3-4 in favor of a 4-3. So, we'd be forcing our crappy personnel to play something different.

3. In February 2006, Mario was barely a blip on most radar screens as a candidates for the first pick (of course, I suppose this is a cue for a few "not me, I was for Mario all along!!!" posts. Please refrain.). Need I remind anyone here of all the "Reggie or Vince" talk around here during that time?

4. Going into the draft, the brass did not think we'd have a shot at getting DeMeco in the second round. I recall reading someone who said they were stunned when he slipped to us.

Adding up 1-4: When we were shopping for a DC in 2006, we featured a horrific defensive roster that was about to be retooled for a completely different scheme. Our top pick was going to be for offense, and DeMeco looked like a pipe dream--can you even begin to imagine how awful our D would be without Mario and/or DeMeco?? And the quarterback that we were counting on to help take heat off the defense was--well, you know. Any wonder that we had to settle in our search for a DC?

Fast forward three years. We have two great young talents and some other guys with real potential. We have an offense that can churn out the yards (and, thus, possession time) against anyone. And it looks all the world like we're set to skew our upcoming draft heavily towards the D. If I'm a job candidate looking to further my career by taking a low-rated defense and turning it around, I have to think this job presents a golden opportunity. Whereas the Texans DC job in 2006 looked like career suicide.

infantrycak
12-31-2008, 12:57 AM
No when he was DC.

Even accepting that example, the point is the conversion is rare rather than the norm that should be expected of any decent NFL DC as was being asserted.

bckey
12-31-2008, 12:09 PM
I hope you are wrong Lance because I don't think Bush will be the dc we need at this point in time. The Texans need a fresh face brought in with fresh ideas. Bush was senior defensive assistant. You would think that is as close to co defensive coordinator as you can get. It worries me that some of what we saw may have been Frank and Richard co designed. Don't know but hopefully Gary can sort it out without letting his friendship with Bush influence him. At least they didn't immediately announce Bush as the defensive coordinator.

Little Gibbs looks to have a pretty nice resume so I wouldn't mind him. If it keeps his dad around an extra season that alone is almost worth it. I would like to see the Texans at some point make an offer to Aaron Glenn to coach dbs if interested. I always liked him and I never liked the way the Texans parted company with him.

mexican_texan
12-31-2008, 12:15 PM
Are there any good, young Colorado State coaches that we could pick up?

They do, actually. I watched them play a few times, they're pretty good.

Oh, and Kubiak's son plays safety for Colorado State and he shut down Casee Keenum of the University of Houston.

RipTraxx
12-31-2008, 01:04 PM
i like the idea of marinelli as our d-line coach.

amen!!!

Heath Shuler
12-31-2008, 05:11 PM
Even accepting that example, the point is the conversion is rare rather than the norm that should be expected of any decent NFL DC as was being asserted.

Rare? sure. Unheard of? no. There are probably some others, Ted Cottrell and Gregg Williams come to mind, without looking up the specifics.

BattleRedToro
12-31-2008, 05:54 PM
Why not bring in Marinelli as Defensive Coordinator?

Then we can run a 4-3 Under as our base defense.

Just watch the Trojans' Defense in the Rose Bowl tomorrow and you will see what a 4-3 Under defense looks like.

Double Barrel
12-31-2008, 06:10 PM
So once again--name a coach who has run a top 10 4-3 and a separate top 10 3-4?

The bigger question is name a DC who has run a top 10 4-3 and will come to the Texans.

GP
12-31-2008, 10:58 PM
Bush would have been the guy had he not been under contract in AZ.

Bush was retained while three others were fired.

Why in the world would Bush be retained and not pink-slipped?

Because if there's nobody "better" out there, and FOR THE RIGHT PRICE (wink, wink, nod, nod), then Bush is it. Kubiak gave RS a lot of leash--3 years' worth. Now he can easily go to McNair and say "Look, Richard's a great guy. It just isn't working. I'd like to retain Bush and take glances at other candidates."

Kinda' like the David Carr thing. He pulled the lever on Carr faster, but it was smart to not make an additionally quick move on the d-coord position. This showed McNair that Kubiak isn't a knee-jerk on every little problem that comes across the board.

I really believe that Bush called a lot of those games this season that looked aggressive from start-to-finish. I believe it was planned by Kubiak, to show McNair that this defense is in need of a change.

I think there are so many positions open out there, that we're going to find a hard time finding someone Gary likes, McNair likes, and is at the right price and has the right compatibility to what this team needs.

In the end, I think Bush is the guy. Gray would be nice, but I think he gets a HC gig or a DC spot with a flashier team than the Texans. Just a hunch.

edo783
01-01-2009, 12:18 AM
IMO, the cadidates line up in order of Bush, Williams and then Gray. It would seem to be more of a Bush's job to lose situation than anything.

steelbtexan
01-01-2009, 04:45 AM
Bush would have been the guy had he not been under contract in AZ.

Bush was retained while three others were fired.

Why in the world would Bush be retained and not pink-slipped?

Because if there's nobody "better" out there, and FOR THE RIGHT PRICE (wink, wink, nod, nod), then Bush is it. Kubiak gave RS a lot of leash--3 years' worth. Now he can easily go to McNair and say "Look, Richard's a great guy. It just isn't working. I'd like to retain Bush and take glances at other candidates."

Kinda' like the David Carr thing. He pulled the lever on Carr faster, but it was smart to not make an additionally quick move on the d-coord position. This showed McNair that Kubiak isn't a knee-jerk on every little problem that comes across the board.

I really believe that Bush called a lot of those games this season that looked aggressive from start-to-finish. I believe it was planned by Kubiak, to show McNair that this defense is in need of a change.

I think there are so many positions open out there, that we're going to find a hard time finding someone Gary likes, McNair likes, and is at the right price and has the right compatibility to what this team needs.

In the end, I think Bush is the guy. Gray would be nice, but I think he gets a HC gig or a DC spot with a flashier team than the Texans. Just a hunch.


With Mr McNair it always comes down to money thats why we wont see any big name DC's hired (Nolan , Crennel, Williams, etc) the best we can hope for is McDermott. I believe Smithiak needs to go outside the organization for this hire.

It's not only the right thing to do from a strategic stand point, it's the right thing to do from a PR stand point as well.

Lucky
01-01-2009, 08:10 AM
With Mr McNair it always comes down to money thats why we wont see any big name DC's hired...
Always? How about naming one instance McNair made a staffing or personnel decision based on money?

ObsiWan
01-01-2009, 08:39 AM
Always? How about naming one instance McNair made a staffing or personnel decision based on money?

he's not cheap.
don't we lead the league in assistant/associate/advisory coaches? that doesn't sound like a guy who is tight with his checkbook

infantrycak
01-01-2009, 09:26 AM
I really believe that Bush called a lot of those games this season that looked aggressive from start-to-finish. I believe it was planned by Kubiak, to show McNair that this defense is in need of a change.

With Mr McNair it always comes down to money thats why we wont see any big name DC's hired

Always? How about naming one instance McNair made a staffing or personnel decision based on money?

You know better than that. We don't need facts, just rank speculation which rapidly turns into internet laws of nature--repeat it enough and it will be so.

thunderkyss
01-01-2009, 10:01 AM
On the David Gibbs thing.... looking at his Resume, I'd think he would be looking for a DC job, and not a lateral move.

I think it would be kinda wierd with Alex on the payroll, but if that's what it will take to keep Alex & David from going to Denver.....

Just imagine, as been stated here earlier.... best thing for Denver, would be to keep the same offensive philosophy(Alex Gibbs), but they really need big time help on Defense(David Gibbs).

TexanSam
01-01-2009, 12:20 PM
With Mr McNair it always comes down to money thats why we wont see any big name DC's hired (Nolan , Crennel, Williams, etc) the best we can hope for is McDermott. I believe Smithiak needs to go outside the organization for this hire.

It's not only the right thing to do from a strategic stand point, it's the right thing to do from a PR stand point as well.

I could care less about the PR stand point. If they feel that Frank Bush is the right man for the job, then I'm all for it. If they go get someone outside of the organization, I'm all for that as well. I don't care who their DC is, I just hope he does a good job. But if they play PR into the search for the new coordinator then they're going about it the wrong way.

GP
01-01-2009, 12:31 PM
Always? How about naming one instance McNair made a staffing or personnel decision based on money?

Richard Smith.

If anyone believes the guy was hired because he was THE BEST AVAILABLE, then I have some ocean-front property in Arizona for you to purchase.

IIRC, one of the major motivations for choosing Mario over Reggie was the lower salary amount that Mario's agent was willing to accept in comparison to Reggie's agent.

We never spend our cap. Every year we're all celebrating these "extra cap dollars" that we're going to use to grab a big free agent or two. It doesn't happen. The Colts came within an eyelash of spending their entire cap a year or so ago. If you are allowed to spend UP TO a cap amount, then why won't you go and spend it? I know we have to have a reserve for the following year's draft picks...but we're always under the cap by several million dollars. I'm not a cap guru, and I know that cap numbers are hard to pin down to a certainty, but nobody needs to tell me that McNair is out there trying to assimilate the pieces we can have every year.

Sparing David Carr for the extra year was not a curious move: McNair wanted to retain the guy because of what it meant, in terms of appearances, if we had to cut the guy. It was an $8 million Public Relations move. Period.

Bush would probably accept a lower salary than other higher-profile guys. Which would be ironic considering the other Bush was too expensive back when we drafted Mario.

infantrycak
01-01-2009, 12:38 PM
Richard Smith.

If anyone believes the guy was hired because he was THE BEST AVAILABLE, then I have some ocean-front property in Arizona for you to purchase.

Really?--name the others and your source other than speculation that Kubiak wasn't the one who made the decision.

IIRC, one of the major motivations for choosing Mario over Reggie was the lower salary amount that Mario's agent was willing to accept in comparison to Reggie's agent.

Once again, you know this how other than speculation?

Amazing--even though the decision has proven correct, some people are still trying to put a negative spin on it.

We never spend our cap. Every year we're all celebrating these "extra cap dollars" that we're going to use to grab a big free agent or two. It doesn't happen.

The Texans have filled their cap with dead money but they have run the cap tight. Most teams keep a reserve akin to the Texans have this year of $3 mil so they can sign new players in the event of injury. The Texans have also ranked very high in payroll--actual money spent, not cap dollars, most years.

I know we have to have a reserve for the following year's draft picks...but we're always under the cap by several million dollars.

The reserve is not for the following year's draft. It is for certain contingent bonuses and mid-season signings.

thunderkyss
01-01-2009, 12:52 PM
IIRC, the word was that Mario's guaranteed money was more than what Reggie was asking for.

mexican_texan
01-01-2009, 01:01 PM
Richard Smith.

If anyone believes the guy was hired because he was THE BEST AVAILABLE, then I have some ocean-front property in Arizona for you to purchase.

IIRC, one of the major motivations for choosing Mario over Reggie was the lower salary amount that Mario's agent was willing to accept in comparison to Reggie's agent.

We never spend our cap. Every year we're all celebrating these "extra cap dollars" that we're going to use to grab a big free agent or two. It doesn't happen. The Colts came within an eyelash of spending their entire cap a year or so ago. If you are allowed to spend UP TO a cap amount, then why won't you go and spend it? I know we have to have a reserve for the following year's draft picks...but we're always under the cap by several million dollars. I'm not a cap guru, and I know that cap numbers are hard to pin down to a certainty, but nobody needs to tell me that McNair is out there trying to assimilate the pieces we can have every year.

Sparing David Carr for the extra year was not a curious move: McNair wanted to retain the guy because of what it meant, in terms of appearances, if we had to cut the guy. It was an $8 million Public Relations move. Period.

Bush would probably accept a lower salary than other higher-profile guys. Which would be ironic considering the other Bush was too expensive back when we drafted Mario.
I wonder where you get your information from. It's pretty much rarely right.

The Pencil Neck
01-01-2009, 02:02 PM
Personally, I've never seen McNair as a cheap when it comes to the team. I think he's willing to pay whatever it takes to get the right people here.

However.

We're the Texans. In many ways, that's like being the Lions. We're just not a place that a lot of people (players or coaches) are going to choose to come to even for extra money. There may have been better DC's out there looking for a job when we hired Smith that simply didn't consider us an option because we're the Texans with no history, no tradition, and no perceived chance of getting to the playoffs.

People are going to prefer the Chiefs, Raiders, Niners, and Browns simply because of the tradition associated with those teams.

I think it's easy to mistake our not making the big splash by getting the big name coach (except for Gibbs) or not getting the big name free agent with thriftyness on McNair's part. I just don't think that's what's going on.

RipTraxx
01-01-2009, 02:32 PM
I like the idea of Marinelli as our d-line coach.

I dont think people realize what that will do for us. Its gonna be like when gibbs came in and put the ZBS in, but for our :d:

GP
01-01-2009, 03:18 PM
I wonder where you get your information from. It's pretty much rarely right.

Well, none of us know exactly what goes on behind closed doors. I never claim that what I say is 100% correct. Weren't you the one who said Kubiak's first choice was Ray Rhodes, but he was under contract with Arizona? And then I had to correct you and say "Uhh...don't you mean Bush?" And you replied with an "Oh, yeah...oops."? You prolly ought to slow down a little when it comes to casting stones about knowing anything.

Sheesh, fellas. This is a freaking message board for crying out loud. It's where you post your opinions, your ideas, your thoughts on things. My feeling is that McNair is a business man first. We have one of the most profitable franchises. Hooray! If it isn't fleshing itself out, in the form of making the playoffs and contending for a title, what good is it for an owner to have such a highly profitable NFL franchise? Seems he's happy with the books more than he is with the trophy case in the front lobby. I'm not saying, I'm just saying...

Since when do we keep score on here? I'll bet you're wrong on some things.

I was right about Ahman Green. Where's my trophy for that one, while about 95% of ya'll were creaming yourselves when we signed him? LOL.

I was right about Brett Favre being a cancer and that the Packers were right for letting him go. In contrast, there was a healthy dose of fans here who thought he would reign supreme in New York and that the Packers were to blame for everything. "He just wants to PLAY! Let Brett play!" LOL.

Chris Brown? I sounded off on that one and said it was a STUPID move. Yet we had people who said "when he's healthy" he's great. Riiiight.

Those are a few instances where I think I exhibited sane, rational thought on certain subjects.

I agree with a few people who have said that what we have is a rookie owner, and a rookie coach, trying to figure out how to do their jobs. And that entails us having patience with them. You can fire coaches, you can cut or trade players, but you can't fire or cut or trade an owner. I hope I'm wrong about McNair. Or if I am right, I hope he's slowly figuring things out.

Alex Gibbs was a good hire. It might have been costly, I don't know. But if it was costly, maybe that will prod McNair to see that he can be loose with the checkbook and improve the defense the same way. The Richard Smith hiring smelled of nothing more than penny pinching.

A vibrant, aggressive defensive coordinator would LOVE to come to Houston (even if we were stinking it up at the time) because then he'd get to prove that he can do anything with even a few table scraps.

DiehardChris
01-01-2009, 03:26 PM
I was right about Ahman Green. Where's my trophy for that one, while about 95% of ya'll were creaming yourselves when we signed him? LOL.

That has to be a joke. Did people actually think that was a good signing?

Texans_Chick
01-01-2009, 03:34 PM
Well, none of us know exactly what goes on behind closed doors. I never claim that what I say is 100% correct. Weren't you the one who said Kubiak's first choice was Ray Rhodes, but he was under contract with Arizona? And then I had to correct you and say "Uhh...don't you mean Bush?" And you replied with an "Oh, yeah...oops."? You prolly ought to slow down a little when it comes to casting stones about knowing anything.

Sheesh, fellas. This is a freaking message board for crying out loud. It's where you post your opinions, your ideas, your thoughts on things. My feeling is that McNair is a business man first. We have one of the most profitable franchises. Hooray! If it isn't fleshing itself out, in the form of making the playoffs and contending for a title, what good is it for an owner to have such a highly profitable NFL franchise? Seems he's happy with the books more than he is with the trophy case in the front lobby. I'm not saying, I'm just saying...

Since when do we keep score on here? I'll bet you're wrong on some things.

I was right about Ahman Green. Where's my trophy for that one, while about 95% of ya'll were creaming yourselves when we signed him? LOL.

I was right about Brett Favre being a cancer and that the Packers were right for letting him go. In contrast, there was a healthy dose of fans here who thought he would reign supreme in New York and that the Packers were to blame for everything. "He just wants to PLAY! Let Brett play!" LOL.

Chris Brown? I sounded off on that one and said it was a STUPID move. Yet we had people who said "when he's healthy" he's great. Riiiight.

Those are a few instances where I think I exhibited sane, rational thought on certain subjects.

I agree with a few people who have said that what we have is a rookie owner, and a rookie coach, trying to figure out how to do their jobs. And that entails us having patience with them. You can fire coaches, you can cut or trade players, but you can't fire or cut or trade an owner. I hope I'm wrong about McNair. Or if I am right, I hope he's slowly figuring things out.

Alex Gibbs was a good hire. It might have been costly, I don't know. But if it was costly, maybe that will prod McNair to see that he can be loose with the checkbook and improve the defense the same way. The Richard Smith hiring smelled of nothing more than penny pinching.

A vibrant, aggressive defensive coordinator would LOVE to come to Houston (even if we were stinking it up at the time) because then he'd get to prove that he can do anything with even a few table scraps.


At the time that the Texans were looking for defensive coordinators, there weren't too many good names available. It's just how it is. It's hard to find good people because good people tend to be under contract.

Jim Bates was mentioned and he ended up sucking it up in Denver and getting canned after one season. Gray was mentioned at the time but he's been at two places since.

Who was available at big bucks at the time that the Texans didn't get? Because I know I would have raised a fuss if I thought he was cheapoing it. I've never seen any evidence of that at all.

I can tell you from the coaches I've talked to is that McNair is very generous in acquiring what the coaches want, whether it is equipment, coaching staff or whatever. McNair tries to make the Texans an inviting place for coaches to come to but the coaches have to be available and they have to be interested for that to work.

DiehardChris
01-01-2009, 03:34 PM
That has to be a joke. Did people actually think that was a good signing?

I dug up the old "Green signs with Texans" thread. You're right - it had far more support than not.

mexican_texan
01-01-2009, 03:36 PM
Well, none of us know exactly what goes on behind closed doors. I never claim that what I say is 100% correct. Weren't you the one who said Kubiak's first choice was Ray Rhodes, but he was under contract with Arizona? And then I had to correct you and say "Uhh...don't you mean Bush?" And you replied with an "Oh, yeah...oops."? You prolly ought to slow down a little when it comes to casting stones about knowing anything.

Sheesh, fellas. This is a freaking message board for crying out loud. It's where you post your opinions, your ideas, your thoughts on things. My feeling is that McNair is a business man first. We have one of the most profitable franchises. Hooray! If it isn't fleshing itself out, in the form of making the playoffs and contending for a title, what good is it for an owner to have such a highly profitable NFL franchise? Seems he's happy with the books more than he is with the trophy case in the front lobby. I'm not saying, I'm just saying...

Since when do we keep score on here? I'll bet you're wrong on some things.

I was right about Ahman Green. Where's my trophy for that one, while about 95% of ya'll were creaming yourselves when we signed him? LOL.

I was right about Brett Favre being a cancer and that the Packers were right for letting him go. In contrast, there was a healthy dose of fans here who thought he would reign supreme in New York and that the Packers were to blame for everything. "He just wants to PLAY! Let Brett play!" LOL.

Chris Brown? I sounded off on that one and said it was a STUPID move. Yet we had people who said "when he's healthy" he's great. Riiiight.

Those are a few instances where I think I exhibited sane, rational thought on certain subjects.

I agree with a few people who have said that what we have is a rookie owner, and a rookie coach, trying to figure out how to do their jobs. And that entails us having patience with them. You can fire coaches, you can cut or trade players, but you can't fire or cut or trade an owner. I hope I'm wrong about McNair. Or if I am right, I hope he's slowly figuring things out.

Alex Gibbs was a good hire. It might have been costly, I don't know. But if it was costly, maybe that will prod McNair to see that he can be loose with the checkbook and improve the defense the same way. The Richard Smith hiring smelled of nothing more than penny pinching.

A vibrant, aggressive defensive coordinator would LOVE to come to Houston (even if we were stinking it up at the time) because then he'd get to prove that he can do anything with even a few table scraps.
The thing is, you never say anything as your opinion, but as a fact. I really doubt you like the Texans at all.

Jackie Chiles
01-01-2009, 03:59 PM
At the time that the Texans were looking for defensive coordinators, there weren't too many good names available. It's just how it is. It's hard to find good people because good people tend to be under contract.

Jim Bates was mentioned and he ended up sucking it up in Denver and getting canned after one season. Gray was mentioned at the time but he's been at two places since.

Who was available at big bucks at the time that the Texans didn't get? Because I know I would have raised a fuss if I thought he was cheapoing it. I've never seen any evidence of that at all.

I can tell you from the coaches I've talked to is that McNair is very generous in acquiring what the coaches want, whether it is equipment, coaching staff or whatever. McNair tries to make the Texans an inviting place for coaches to come to but the coaches have to be available and they have to be interested for that to work.

This is pretty much the idea that I got as well. We had a pretty extensive search for the HC that year and by the time we hired Kubiak he had to fill out his staff quickly with some guys that were likely not his first choices. Thats the price we had to pay to get the right HC. As TC mentioned Bates was the only big name I remember being thrown around and he certainly didn't work out in Denver. Gray would have been great but he wasn't going to take the DC job after just interviewing for the HC position. We are in a better position now because we have most of the coaching staff in place and there is an unusual amount of defensive coaching talent available this offseason.

Specnatz
01-01-2009, 04:48 PM
Since when do we keep score on here? I'll bet you're wrong on some things.

I was right about Ahman Green. Where's my trophy for that one, while about 95% of ya'll were creaming yourselves when we signed him? LOL.

Chris Brown? I sounded off on that one and said it was a STUPID move. Yet we had people who said "when he's healthy" he's great. Riiiight.

Those are a few instances where I think I exhibited sane, rational thought on certain subjects.

I agree with a few people who have said that what we have is a rookie owner, and a rookie coach, trying to figure out how to do their jobs. And that entails us having patience with them. You can fire coaches, you can cut or trade players, but you can't fire or cut or trade an owner. I hope I'm wrong about McNair. Or if I am right, I hope he's slowly figuring things out.

Alex Gibbs was a good hire. It might have been costly, I don't know. But if it was costly, maybe that will prod McNair to see that he can be loose with the checkbook and improve the defense the same way. The Richard Smith hiring smelled of nothing more than penny pinching.

A vibrant, aggressive defensive coordinator would LOVE to come to Houston (even if we were stinking it up at the time) because then he'd get to prove that he can do anything with even a few table scraps.

If McNair cared about penny pinching Carr would still be here. Dom Capers was a hot coach at the time of his hiring so was Palmer. Palmer had a good rep as a QB guru. Kubiak was the Hot choice for HC just like right now the young OC for New England is. You are wanting to bash the Texans for something that you say appears to be the case, how do you get that perception when you yourself say you have no clue what the contracts are for the coaches.

Smith hire was a damn nothing available hire. Just like someone this year will have to settle because of all the vacancies and all the good products will be off the shelf, just hope it is not the Texans.

That has to be a joke. Did people actually think that was a good signing?

I like the Green signing at the time cause I thought it was a stop gap for two years and then cut him cause of his contract. Sign him and draft other positions because the team had so many holes at the time. It did not workout but I understood the process.

Heath Shuler
01-01-2009, 05:14 PM
Always? How about naming one instance McNair made a staffing or personnel decision based on money?

Is there a current ranking to determine where the Texans stand in average salary and total budget for assistant coaches? The NFL Coaches Association has some data but it is very dated.

barrett
01-01-2009, 06:15 PM
This is pretty much the idea that I got as well. We had a pretty extensive search for the HC that year and by the time we hired Kubiak he had to fill out his staff quickly with some guys that were likely not his first choices. Thats the price we had to pay to get the right HC. As TC mentioned Bates was the only big name I remember being thrown around and he certainly didn't work out in Denver. Gray would have been great but he wasn't going to take the DC job after just interviewing for the HC position. We are in a better position now because we have most of the coaching staff in place and there is an unusual amount of defensive coaching talent available this offseason.

but for how much longer? the clock is ticking.

thunderkyss
01-01-2009, 07:31 PM
I was right about Ahman Green. Where's my trophy for that one, while about 95% of ya'll were creaming yourselves when we signed him? LOL.


I still cream a little, when I think about it...

:redface:

Texans_Chick
01-01-2009, 07:31 PM
If McNair cared about penny pinching Carr would still be here. Dom Capers was a hot coach at the time of his hiring so was Palmer. Palmer had a good rep as a QB guru. Kubiak was the Hot choice for HC just like right now the young OC for New England is. You are wanting to bash the Texans for something that you say appears to be the case, how do you get that perception when you yourself say you have no clue what the contracts are for the coaches.

Smith hire was a damn nothing available hire. Just like someone this year will have to settle because of all the vacancies and all the good products will be off the shelf, just hope it is not the Texans.



I like the Green signing at the time cause I thought it was a stop gap for two years and then cut him cause of his contract. Sign him and draft other positions because the team had so many holes at the time. It did not workout but I understood the process.


Actually, my own belief is that the Smith hire was a McNair reaction to the friction between Casserly and Capers. That Casserly sometimes drafted players he didn't believe in to satisfy the coaches and that Capers would sometimes not develop Casserly picks that he didn't believe in. And there was finger pointing behind the scenes.

McNair wanted a GM and coach that were on the same page. A GM that knew what sorts of players the coach was looking for and would be able to find them in the draft and free agency. They don't always agree, but their careers are bound together and they are working together for a common goal.

The original Texans staff was a bunch of name guys that were put together
but didn't have much of a relationship or shared philosophy. Palmer and Capers have very different views on offense. Casserly and Capers were often at odds on personnel. Casserly was a guy who didn't have much experience picking 3-4 players and struggled with it. Because of his limited background, he didn't have a good position to dispute players that Capers/Fangio wanted.

Some people would look at the current team as a bunch of inexperienced people at what they are tasked to do, and some of them are. But they are a reflection of a philosophy that a shared background, philosophy and direction can be helpful in providing direction for a team. They have been more successful at this on the offensive side of the ball than the defense.

Time will tell if this ends up working, but they are trying to build a staff that is a team and not a bunch of guys looking out for themselves and finger pointing.

Vinny
01-01-2009, 07:41 PM
I was right about Ahman Green. Where's my trophy for that one, while about 95% of ya'll were creaming yourselves when we signed him? LOL.

we ran into too many setbacks when we were smelting your trophy. We ran into a problem turning silver oxide to silver. Luckily, Double Barrel is letting us use his blast furnace to finish off the project...but I can't guarantee you that it will be done before the draft though...fingers crossed.

GP
01-02-2009, 12:09 AM
we ran into too many setbacks when we were smelting your trophy. We ran into a problem turning silver oxide to silver. Luckily, Double Barrel is letting us use his blast furnace to finish off the project...but I can't guarantee you that it will be done before the draft though...fingers crossed.

LOL. I know some people who even had avatar & sig made especially for the Ahman signing. Do you know who I am talking about?

Don't ban me, Vinny!

GP
01-02-2009, 12:15 AM
The thing is, you never say anything as your opinion, but as a fact. I really doubt you like the Texans at all.

I didn't know I had to start everything, or end everything, with "IMO" I found myself doing that, trying to take great pains to divide what was my opinion and what was pure fact...but it got old, mostly because I felt most people would know the difference. I guess some people need disclaimers. :whip:

Kinda' thought that we all knew that roughly 90% of the time we're all expressing ideas/theories/opinions.

I showed you mercy when you flubbed the Rhodes/Bush mixup. I didn't rake you over the coals or blast you for it...and this is how you repay me?

"Et tu, Brute?"

GP
01-02-2009, 12:24 AM
I dug up the old "Green signs with Texans" thread. You're right - it had far more support than not.

I didn't have to dig it up. The memory is seared into my mind. The atmosphere on here was amazing: We'd pulled off the signing of the year. We finally had a big name, a guy with experience...except the Packers were so quick to let the guy waltz away. Didn't even blink.

I was the one asking for the party to die down a little bit, to exhibit some level of self-control until the guy actually played a full game. I was trashed for it, but it didn't change my mind about things. I don't friggin' care if I'm not in the majority.

I was wrong about David Carr just needing a guy like Kubiak to help him along. I was wrong about Sage. Talk to me at the end of 2009 about if I am wrong about Schaub. But I nailed the Ahman Green prediction.

I'm batting somewhere right around the Mendoza Line, I think. I just need one more year...and $8 million, please :spit:

mexican_texan
01-02-2009, 12:28 AM
I didn't know I had to start everything, or end everything, with "IMO" I found myself doing that, trying to take great pains to divide what was my opinion and what was pure fact...but it got old, mostly because I felt most people would know the difference. I guess some people need disclaimers. :whip:

Kinda' thought that we all knew that roughly 90% of the time we're all expressing ideas/theories/opinions.

I showed you mercy when you flubbed the Rhodes/Bush mixup. I didn't rake you over the coals or blast you for it...and this is how you repay me?

"Et tu, Brute?"
If it's only your opinion, why do you attack people for having different opinions? It's one thing correcting me because I got two coaches mixed up, it's another thing correcting someone about a percieved event no one here had any evidence of like McNair's attitude.

GP
01-02-2009, 12:43 AM
If it's only your opinion, why do you attack people for having different opinions? It's one thing correcting me because I got two coaches mixed up, it's another thing correcting someone about a percieved event no one here had any evidence of like McNair's attitude.

I don't think disagreeing is "attacking others for having a different opinion."

You don't have to drink the Kool Aid in order to be a good guy, you know.

I think I agree with lots of people on several things, but I also have a few radical views that hardly anyone here shares with me (My view on McNair, for instance).

I'm iffy on Kubiak. I think the two best hirings have been Rick Smith and Alex Gibbs, both have paid off in pretty quick fashion. I think THAT is the key to success in the NFL--If you can get it going right off the bat, then you've got it. Hopefully Kubiak is a late bloomer.

Richard Smith? I can't stomach the idea that he was hired because he was the only guy left. This isn't after-school kickball where somebody gets the slow, uncoordinated kid because he was the last one left after teams were picked. Is it? Then what was the motivation behind hiring Richard Smith? His credentials? Pleazzzzzze.

mexican_texan
01-02-2009, 12:55 AM
I don't think disagreeing is "attacking others for having a different opinion."

You don't have to drink the Kool Aid in order to be a good guy, you know.

I think I agree with lots of people on several things, but I also have a few radical views that hardly anyone here shares with me (My view on McNair, for instance).

I'm iffy on Kubiak. I think the two best hirings have been Rick Smith and Alex Gibbs, both have paid off in pretty quick fashion. I think THAT is the key to success in the NFL--If you can get it going right off the bat, then you've got it. Hopefully Kubiak is a late bloomer.

Richard Smith? I can't stomach the idea that he was hired because he was the only guy left. This isn't after-school kickball where somebody gets the slow, uncoordinated kid because he was the last one left after teams were picked. Is it? Then what was the motivation behind hiring Richard Smith? His credentials? Pleazzzzzze.
Such as how we never spend money yet we're always close to the cap limit? I remember you used to be a good football guy, but now all you seem to do is focus on what they did wrong. It's been a while since you talked pure X's and O's, from what I've read.

HJam72
01-02-2009, 09:02 AM
So, anyway, we're gonna be SET when Ahman and Brown come back healthy next year, huh? :stirpot:

Texans_Chick
01-02-2009, 09:05 AM
I don't think disagreeing is "attacking others for having a different opinion."

You don't have to drink the Kool Aid in order to be a good guy, you know.

I think I agree with lots of people on several things, but I also have a few radical views that hardly anyone here shares with me (My view on McNair, for instance).

I'm iffy on Kubiak. I think the two best hirings have been Rick Smith and Alex Gibbs, both have paid off in pretty quick fashion. I think THAT is the key to success in the NFL--If you can get it going right off the bat, then you've got it. Hopefully Kubiak is a late bloomer.

Richard Smith? I can't stomach the idea that he was hired because he was the only guy left. This isn't after-school kickball where somebody gets the slow, uncoordinated kid because he was the last one left after teams were picked. Is it? Then what was the motivation behind hiring Richard Smith? His credentials? Pleazzzzzze.

Who did you at the time want instead? It's one thing to blast a move in retrospect, and quite another to do it at the time and offer available alternatives. It's not like Smith had no credentials at all.

However, with the background he did have, I thought he should have been canned sooner given the start he had with the team.

I think you can't blame Kubiak for the initial hire but can blame him for keeping him too long.

And as for your view on McNair, I guess the reason why it is flies in the face of everyone else's opinion is that it is not supported by evidence.

GP
01-02-2009, 10:37 AM
Such as how we never spend money yet we're always close to the cap limit? I remember you used to be a good football guy, but now all you seem to do is focus on what they did wrong. It's been a while since you talked pure X's and O's, from what I've read.

Yeah, nearly a decade of watching our team run around in circles will do that to a person.

I'm probably 50% x's and o's and 50% just plain old pissed off.

Let's see who we get for defensive coordinator. Imagine what this team could have accomplished over the past three years with a competent d-coord. If that doesn't cause anyone to pause and shake his/her head, then oh well.

We've made better moves since our new GM arrived. I think Rick Smith is the best hire yet, because his input has generated some good things. So I'm hoping those guys recruit the BEST guy available.

Just wondering: I know Gene Chizik is under fire for not being a good HC, but his defenses went number 1 at both Auburn, and then at UT the very next year when he went there. He could have been approached. There are a lot of people who could have been persuaded to come here.

ObsiWan
01-02-2009, 10:48 AM
Yeah, nearly a decade of watching our team run around in circles will do that to a person.

I'm probably 50% x's and o's and 50% just plain old pissed off.

Let's see who we get for defensive coordinator. Imagine what this team could have accomplished over the past three years with a competent d-coord. If that doesn't cause anyone to pause and shake his/her head, then oh well.

We've made better moves since our new GM arrived. I think Rick Smith is the best hire yet, because his input has generated some good things. So I'm hoping those guys recruit the BEST guy available.

Just wondering: I know Gene Chizik is under fire for not being a good HC, but his defenses went number 1 at both Auburn, and then at UT the very next year when he went there. He could have been approached. There are a lot of people who could have been persuaded to come here.

No college guys, thank you.

bigbrewster2000
01-02-2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah, nearly a decade of watching our team run around in circles will do that to a person.

I'm probably 50% x's and o's and 50% just plain old pissed off.

Let's see who we get for defensive coordinator. Imagine what this team could have accomplished over the past three years with a competent d-coord. If that doesn't cause anyone to pause and shake his/her head, then oh well.

We've made better moves since our new GM arrived. I think Rick Smith is the best hire yet, because his input has generated some good things. So I'm hoping those guys recruit the BEST guy available.

Just wondering: I know Gene Chizik is under fire for not being a good HC, but his defenses went number 1 at both Auburn, and then at UT the very next year when he went there. He could have been approached. There are a lot of people who could have been persuaded to come here.

So that is the real problem then. You cant give up the past.



On to the Gene Chizik statement. What makes you think he would have been an expensive hire? He wasnt a really hot name for an NFL DC job. And sice you whole argment has been that McNair is a cheapskate, Im not buying.

TexansSeminole
01-02-2009, 11:32 AM
No college guys, thank you.

Why? I don't understand this.

Nobody seems to be interested in my Bud Foster from VTech idea. I think he is exactly what we need. Good X and O coach with an attitude. A coach that is not afraid to scream at a ref or a player.

Blake
01-02-2009, 11:42 AM
Why? I don't understand this.

Nobody seems to be interested in my Bud Foster from VTech idea. I think he is exactly what we need. Good X and O coach with an attitude. A coach that is not afraid to scream at a ref or a player.

I assume its because its more noticeable when the college coach fails the jump to the NFL, rather than when they succeed.

I guess it makes more sense to promote from assistant coach to DC, rather than college coach directly to DC.

TexansSeminole
01-02-2009, 11:59 AM
I assume its because its more noticeable when the college coach fails the jump to the NFL, rather than when they succeed.

I guess it makes more sense to promote from assistant coach to DC, rather than college coach directly to DC.

I'll tell you what, Bud Foster will grab a college HC job in the next 2 years so do we need to wait for him prove he can be a good college HC to coach defense in the NFL? IMO being a good college HC will not tell me any more than being a good college DC if I am looking at NFL DC candidates. And you know he isn't going to take an assistant job in the NFL with college HC offers sitting on his desk. Atleast, I wouldn't.

The man has created superior defenses out of inferior talent many times over. In his 13 years of holding the DC position at VTech they have only given up 16 points a game.

Blake
01-02-2009, 12:30 PM
I'll tell you what, Bud Foster will grab a college HC job in the next 2 years so do we need to wait for him prove he can be a good college HC to coach defense in the NFL? IMO being a good college HC will not tell me any more than being a good college DC if I am looking at NFL DC candidates. And you know he isn't going to take an assistant job in the NFL with college HC offers sitting on his desk. Atleast, I wouldn't.

The man has created superior defenses out of inferior talent many times over. In his 13 years of holding the DC position at VTech they have only given up 16 points a game.

You misunderstood me. What I was trying to say is that maybe college coaches who came in as assistant coaches, then get promoted to the DCoordinator position would do better. That way they have a year or 2 of NFL experience before heading a unit.

TexansSeminole
01-02-2009, 12:41 PM
You misunderstood me. What I was trying to say is that maybe college coaches who came in as assistant coaches, then get promoted to the DCoordinator position would do better. That way they have a year or 2 of NFL experience before heading a unit.

No, I understand what you are saying. My point is that it's not going to happen with a guy like Bud Foster. He won't take an NFL assistant job (like LB coach) when he has college HC offers on his desk. During 2007 year he was in the running for the West Virginia job until they decided to stay in house and go with Stewart. This year he was in the running for the Clemson job until they decided to stay in house and go with Dabo Swinney.

He'd practically be demoting himself. Of course you are right though, it would be nice if he, or guys in similiar positions, had some NFL experience but sometimes coaches coach past taking an NFL assistant job.

Second Honeymoon
01-02-2009, 12:50 PM
The longer the search goes on, the less likely that the choice will be Bush. You would think if they were going to promote from within, it would be done pretty quickly.

It smells like they have someone(s) who is currently in the playoffs and kinda off limits at the moment.

mexican_texan
01-02-2009, 01:00 PM
It would be pretty irresponsible to hire a guy this soon after the season ended. I'm not sure who's been officially interviewed, but I'm sure we're waiting on some teams to be eliminated from the playoffs so we can interview their coaches.

Goldensilence
01-02-2009, 01:24 PM
No, I understand what you are saying. My point is that it's not going to happen with a guy like Bud Foster. He won't take an NFL assistant job (like LB coach) when he has college HC offers on his desk. During 2007 year he was in the running for the West Virginia job until they decided to stay in house and go with Stewart. This year he was in the running for the Clemson job until they decided to stay in house and go with Dabo Swinney.

He'd practically be demoting himself. Of course you are right though, it would be nice if he, or guys in similiar positions, had some NFL experience but sometimes coaches coach past taking an NFL assistant job.

I Understand what you are saying but there isn't much of a history of guys making the NFL leap quick and successfully. I think Kubiak needs to hit a homerun on this hiring if he wants to stay around for long term as the HC of the Texans. The longer the search goes on the more confidence I have they are going to make he right decision and go out of house for the next DC.

Marcus
01-02-2009, 03:21 PM
No college guys, thank you.

Echoed. College guys mean no NFL experience. It's a night and day difference.

Pantherstang84
01-02-2009, 04:03 PM
Echoed. College guys mean no NFL experience. It's a night and day difference.

What are you talking about?

Signed,

Pete Carroll, Charlie Weiss, Lane Kiffin

j/k

:jk:


I get where your coming from. Kubiak needs to absolutely nail it on this hiring choice. I think he'll do what he thinks is best for the team.

b0ng
01-02-2009, 04:45 PM
What are you talking about?

Signed,

Pete Carroll, Charlie Weiss, Lane Kiffin, Bobby Petrino, Nick Saban, and a bunch of others.



Added a few more. Did Jim Tressel coach in the NFL? I'm sure there's more than that though

Polo
01-02-2009, 04:50 PM
No, I understand what you are saying. My point is that it's not going to happen with a guy like Bud Foster. He won't take an NFL assistant job (like LB coach) when he has college HC offers on his desk. During 2007 year he was in the running for the West Virginia job until they decided to stay in house and go with Stewart. This year he was in the running for the Clemson job until they decided to stay in house and go with Dabo Swinney.

He'd practically be demoting himself. Of course you are right though, it would be nice if he, or guys in similiar positions, had some NFL experience but sometimes coaches coach past taking an NFL assistant job.

Sometimes you gotta take two steps back to take one step forward

TexansSeminole
01-02-2009, 05:01 PM
Sometimes you gotta take two steps back to take one step forward

It'd be one thing if the guy had been a DC for 4 or 5 years and had success, and there wasn't any interest in HC positions from colleges. This guy has been the defensive coordinator of the VTech defense for 13 years, plus another additional 8 years as LB coach and done a stellar job since year 1.

Norm Chow went from OC in college to OC in the NFL and he was only the OC for USC for 4 years, although he was OC for BYU and NC State for 27 years prior to going to USC. I guess it's not a great example because Chow got ran out of Tennessee, but it's not necessarily his fault.

Maybe it won't happen for this reason, but if I was in charge of making the decision for a new DC, it wouldn't scare me off.

What are you talking about?

Signed,

Pete Carroll, Lane Kiffin



Both head coaches. Weiss went from NFL to college. Kiffin was moved from OC in college to HC in the NFL, completely different than what I am asking here.

As for Bobby Petrino and Nick Saban they were both head coaches as well.

Pantherstang84
01-02-2009, 05:11 PM
It'd be one thing if the guy had been a DC for 4 or 5 years and had success, and there wasn't any interest in HC positions from colleges. This guy has been the defensive coordinator of the VTech defense for 13 years, plus another additional 8 years as LB coach and done a stellar job since year 1.

Norm Chow went from OC in college to OC in the NFL and he was only the OC for USC for 4 years, although he was OC for BYU and NC State for 27 years prior to going to USC. I guess it's not a great example because Chow got ran out of Tennessee, but it's not necessarily his fault.

Maybe it won't happen for this reason, but if I was in charge of making the decision for a new DC, it wouldn't scare me off.



Both head coaches. Weiss went from NFL to college.

As for Bobby Petrino and Nick Saban they were both head coaches as well.


Chow's major crime was trying to teach a NFL caliber offense to a QB who couldn't even grasp a college offense real well.

TexansSeminole
01-02-2009, 05:22 PM
Chow's major crime was trying to teach a NFL caliber offense to a QB who couldn't even grasp a college offense real well.

Well that is what you do as an NFL offensive coordinator. Teach NFL caliber offense.

Specnatz
01-02-2009, 05:59 PM
Well that is what you do as an NFL offensive coordinator. Teach NFL caliber offense.

Yeah you do, but trying to teach vy an offense is like trying to teach quantum mechanics to a grapefruit.

TexansSeminole
01-02-2009, 06:03 PM
Yeah you do, but trying to teach vy an offense is like trying to teach quantum mechanics to a grapefruit.

It's unfortunate what happened to Norm Chow. His situation in Tennessee probably led him to believe that the NFL is all about money. I doubt he moves out of college football again.

Specnatz
01-02-2009, 06:11 PM
It's unfortunate what happened to Norm Chow. His situation in Tennessee probably led him to believe that the NFL is all about money. I doubt he moves out of college football again.

The bright side is if he can get UCLA going he can screw Pete Carol every year. Which would not make me sad in the very least.

barrett
01-02-2009, 06:22 PM
No college guys, thank you.

yup.

GP
01-02-2009, 08:40 PM
So that is the real problem then. You cant give up the past.



On to the Gene Chizik statement. What makes you think he would have been an expensive hire? He wasnt a really hot name for an NFL DC job. And sice you whole argment has been that McNair is a cheapskate, Im not buying.

Bingo.

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it. Whoever said that Kubiak's future hinges on this new d-coord hiring is correct.

There's no bigger open wound on this team than the problem with our defense. The bleeding has to stop, but the person closing the wound better be top notch. Could they not foresee this very set of circumstances when they brought Richard Smith into the fold? Who really had a great vibe when he was hired? I didn't. And I know a lot of people here who gave it the good old Kool Aid treatment (criticizing the move, yet asking people to support it because, gosh darn it, he's our man now!).

They are targeting BIG grownups right now for the pure and simple fact that they didn't do this the first time around. I will never buy the argument that says there was nobody else, or that we couldn't get someone to come here. In this day and age, either (a) money or (b) the chance to prove something or (c) both will get someone here.

The d-coord pulls the strings, is the conductor of the orchestra, he's the one who essentially takes all that money that the owner invested in players and tries to make it tick in perfect harmony with all components. If McNair invests millions of dollars into players, he ought to invest as much as he can into the coaches so that the investment in the players is stewarded as well as possible. Otherwise, the owner has wasted millions on players AND on coaches.

If you're going to win or fail, win or fail BIG! I just don't think McNair is a risk taker (yet) but maybe he's learning. I think the job Rick Smith has done is a huge indictment of the job Casserly did or didn't do, depending on how you look at it. I don't think Rick Smith would have been in favor of Richard Smith as d-coord.

I just don't think they put the effort into it, and I think money factored into it too. And that, BTW, is my o-p-i-n-i-o-n. And I need to shut 'er down on this topic.

BattleRedToro
01-05-2009, 08:00 AM
What are you talking about?

Signed,

Pete Carroll, Charlie Weiss, Lane Kiffin

j/k

:jk:


I get where your coming from. Kubiak needs to absolutely nail it on this hiring choice. I think he'll do what he thinks is best for the team.

Pete Carroll is a very bad example because he was an assistant for many years in the NFL before becoming a head coach in the NFL.

In fact, he was an assistant coach in college for 2 years, then he became a college DC for 3 years.

After that, he was a college OC for 1 year, and then he made the jump to the NFL as an assistant coach for 6 years.

He was then a DC in the NFL for 4 more years before becoming an NFL HC for the first time with the Jets.

After that 1 year as HC he was fired and became a DC for 2 years.

Then he was hired as the HC for the Patriots for 3 years, before being fired.

Of course, after that he was hired as the HC of USC, and remains there to this day.

So, you can see he didn't jump from college DC to NFL DC. He moved up the coaching ladder slowly.

By the time he was an NFL DC, he had been coaching in the NFL for 6 years, and 12 years total coaching experience.

By the time he was an NFL HC, he had been coaching in the NFL for 10 years, and 16 years total coaching experience.

Finally, by the time he was hired as a college HC he had 6 years college coaching experience, and 16 years NFL coaching experience, for a total of 22 years coaching experience.

cuppacoffee
01-05-2009, 10:53 AM
The longer the search goes on, the less likely that the choice will be Bush. You would think if they were going to promote from within, it would be done pretty quickly.

It smells like they have someone(s) who is currently in the playoffs and kinda off limits at the moment.

It would be pretty irresponsible to hire a guy this soon after the season ended. I'm not sure who's been officially interviewed, but I'm sure we're waiting on some teams to be eliminated from the playoffs so we can interview their coaches.


Makes sense to me.

What doesn't make sense is me agreeing with SH..:hmmm:

:coffee:..:D

ObsiWan
01-05-2009, 11:50 AM
Why? I don't understand this.

Nobody seems to be interested in my Bud Foster from VTech idea. I think he is exactly what we need. Good X and O coach with an attitude. A coach that is not afraid to scream at a ref or a player.

If he's "all that" why has he been at VaTech for 20 years?
....school Loyalty?

TexansSeminole
01-05-2009, 11:55 AM
If he's "all that" why has he been at VaTech for 20 years?
....school Loyalty?

I don't know the man personally how could you expect me to answer a question like that. Plus if your mind is limited to thinking that a guy who stays at a school for 20 years must not be any good than it's senseless explaining it to you anyway now isn't it. My guess is that it is a good job, and he's been with Frank Beamer since before they went to VTech together.

Give it 2 years and he will either be in the NFL or a HC at some college. I'll do what I did to YTF and put down money if you'd like....

b0ng
01-05-2009, 12:12 PM
I don't know the man personally how could you expect me to answer a question like that. Plus if your mind is limited to thinking that a guy who stays at a school for 20 years must not be any good than it's senseless explaining it to you anyway now isn't it. My guess is that it is a good job, and he's been with Frank Beamer since before they went to VTech together.

Give it 2 years and he will either be in the NFL or a HC at some college. I'll do what I did to YTF and put down money if you'd like....

I think 0bsi is implying that Foster might be comfortable where he is and doesn't want to take on the headaches of being in the NFL or a HC in college, which I think is a fair assumption to make.

Also, say no to college coaches for NFL positions. Sure they have to get there start somewhere but Houston has enpugh of those guys as it is.

TexansSeminole
01-05-2009, 12:20 PM
I think 0bsi is implying that Foster might be comfortable where he is and doesn't want to take on the headaches of being in the NFL or a HC in college, which I think is a fair assumption to make.

Also, say no to college coaches for NFL positions. Sure they have to get there start somewhere but Houston has enpugh of those guys as it is.


Here is an article (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/terrapins-insider/2008/10/vts_foster_would_jump_through.html) that would suggest otherwise. Quote from article talking about HC job at Clemson.

"I'd be...stupid" not to be interested, Foster said. "You guys have all asked me for the last five years, six years. Who wouldn't be (interested)? ... That'd be one I'd be jumping through hoops to try to get. "

The year before it was WVU trying to get him to be their HC, and Steve Spurrier trying to get him to be the South Carolina DC.

I think he would have taken either WVU or Clemson job but the two schools decided to stay in house. He is not going to make a lateral career move, like the move to South Carolina, and leave VT and Beamer, a man he obviously has some loyalty to. That's just my opinion on his decision making.

Second Honeymoon
01-05-2009, 12:26 PM
Makes sense to me.

What doesn't make sense is me agreeing with SH..:hmmm:

:coffee:..:D

your gaining wisdom with age, cupacoffee.

in all seriousness though, its looking less and less like Bush.

TexansSeminole
01-05-2009, 12:35 PM
If he's "all that" why has he been at VaTech for 20 years?
....school Loyalty?

Another article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/29/AR2007112902375.html) giving an answer to this question:

He could have had other jobs if he promoted himself more," Lattinville said. "It's shameless, in a sense, the way some people in the coaching business promote themselves. His stance has always been, 'What I'm going to do is if they come after me, then we'll talk.' Bud's hope is that the true cream-of-the-crop programs recognize that and respect that. He hopes that people take that into account. It's old school, for sure. But I think in the end it will pay off. Could he have had other head coaching jobs if he had been more proactive? Yeah."

"Me and [defensive end] Chris Ellis talked about it a couple weeks ago," senior safety D.J. Parker said. "We see all these coaching jobs vacant now. We think Coach Foster would be a good coach. I don't want him to go. But he really deserves it."

Goldensilence
01-05-2009, 01:05 PM
My only problem with hiring Foster is how key this decision is moving forward with the franchise and I don't know how comfortable i am, even as a fan, with a guy who doesn't have true NFL experience. He could be a great coach as two of our current players would testify about as well but I don't think it's in our best interest to make the hire. I think that's the reservations across the board about hiring him Seminole.

TexansSeminole
01-05-2009, 01:12 PM
My only problem with hiring Foster is how key this decision is moving forward with the franchise and I don't know how comfortable i am, even as a fan, with a guy who doesn't have true NFL experience. He could be a great coach as two of our current players would testify about as well but I don't think it's in our best interest to make the hire. I think that's the reservations across the board about hiring him Seminole.

I get why people are uncomfortable with hiring a guy with no NFL experience. It's a legitimate concern. I just want to answer the question on why he's been where he has been for so long.

He's just one of those guys that I believe could be had for less money and has alot of potential to do well. After hearing about how Kubiak is not paid very much and how our DC will probably not get paid more than Kubiak it makes some sense to me to go after a guy who we can get for a cheaper price.

I just truly believe that in 5 or so years this guy isn't going to come as cheap.

YoungTexanFan
01-05-2009, 01:24 PM
Give it 2 years and he will either be in the NFL or a HC at some college. I'll do what I did to YTF and put down money if you'd like....

Really now? I hate having to do this.

Everette Brown is a total preference pick. If they author of the mock looks at him as a 4-3 DE, there is no way he is a first round talent. I think he will go first round because of hype or get drafted by a 3-4 team and be ok.

3 posts later:

As for Brown, we can argue all day about how well he will do in the NFL or what position he will play, but he will be a first rounder. I'll put a grand on that if you want to put money where your mouth is.

2 posts later:

I think Brown will go in the first round, as I stated. I think differently of him than you, and that is what makes a message board interesting. I think he is strictly a 3-4 OLB right now, and you are right, there is no point in arguing over what we think.

Really man? I said straight up that I expect him to go in the first round, so you didn't put your "money" down, and you sure as hell didn't do anything to me.

TexansSeminole
01-05-2009, 01:32 PM
Really man? I said straight up that I expect him to go in the first round, so you didn't put your "money" down, and you sure as hell didn't do anything to me.

By "do" I mean make it interesting. It's all in good fun, but you act like I am hurting your online ego. I don't actually expect to make bets online for a grand at 21. I'm a 21 year old college student, I don't have $1,000 bucks to bet away. I thought you would understand that as a college student yourself.

It's online money my friend, but I think you thought I was serious.

Don't take me so seriously, I am really not a serious person. This is a football message board, have a little fun with it. Besides it would be stupid to bet on a god damn draft pick.

Oh and the bet is still on the table if you want to make it. I think I have some online fun money to use, but I would have to check my ACCOUNT (JOKING HERE).

Part of the fun of joking is not having to explain that you are joking but I do realize that it is harder to understand on a message board as you cannot read body language. I'll try to be more clear when I am joking. That's my bad YTF.

ObsiWan
01-05-2009, 05:28 PM
I think 0bsi is implying that Foster might be comfortable where he is and doesn't want to take on the headaches of being in the NFL or a HC in college, which I think is a fair assumption to make.

Also, say no to college coaches for NFL positions. Sure they have to get there start somewhere but Houston has enpugh of those guys as it is.

ding! ding! ding!
We have a winner.

He seems like he's happy where he is otherwise he'd have taken some of the other offers he's had... [link] (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/29/AR2007112902375.html)

Foster has had several dalliances -- for example, Virginia contacted him before hiring Al Groh in 2001 -- and he has turned away offers from low-profile programs. One reason: He likes it at Virginia Tech.

The money is good. Foster loves driving his boat around Claytor Lake, trying to hook the biggest fish that will bite. He raised his three children, two daughters and a son, in Blacksburg. Some of his best friends are other Virginia Tech assistants -- Billy Hite, Bryan Stinespring, Jim Cavanaugh and Charley Wiles have all been at the school for at least 12 years.

He's got a good gig - maybe a great one as assistant's gigs go; so why leave it for anything less than a head coaching job?

YoungTexanFan
01-05-2009, 05:51 PM
By "do" I mean make it interesting. It's all in good fun, but you act like I am hurting your online ego. I don't actually expect to make bets online for a grand at 21. I'm a 21 year old college student, I don't have $1,000 bucks to bet away. I thought you would understand that as a college student yourself.

It's online money my friend, but I think you thought I was serious.

Don't take me so seriously, I am really not a serious person. This is a football message board, have a little fun with it. Besides it would be stupid to bet on a god damn draft pick.

Oh and the bet is still on the table if you want to make it. I think I have some online fun money to use, but I would have to check my ACCOUNT (JOKING HERE).


Part of the fun of joking is not having to explain that you are joking but I do realize that it is harder to understand on a message board as you cannot read body language. I'll try to be more clear when I am joking. That's my bad YTF.

We are fine. I understand about not having money. I didn't think you were using real money as a "bet". I just don't enjoy being put down like that. I'm not perfect nor a professional. I agree that it is difficult to interpret exact connotation and meaning through a message board as a medium.

I have my own friends, as I am sure you have your own as well. I'm not that serious of a person, but I come to this board to talk football. This is my break from everything else. I never thought you were using real money, and the betting mention is not a big deal. The reason I was a little upset is because I felt like you were purposely throwing me under a bus.

I have nothing against you, nor do I want there to be anything moving forward. I enjoy reading your posts in the college forums. It's obvious that we both have a bias, and that is great, especially since they are from non-regional schools. I respect what you have to say about the draft.

michaelm
01-05-2009, 09:58 PM
in all seriousness though, its looking less and less like Bush.

I disagree. I don't think any information (or lack thereof) that I've seen indicates anything in particular in any direction.
Maybe the fact that they haven't promoted Bush yet indicates that they aren't interested in him as DC,
on the other hand, maybe it indicates that they have one candidate that they like better, but is still in the playoffs.
If that were the case, Bush still might be a single candidate removed from the position.
I haven't seen anything to clue me in one way or the other.
Thinking that Bush is becoming less and less likely to be promoted to DC because of the passage of a little time feels to me like wishful thinking or reading tea leaves.

michaelm
01-05-2009, 10:02 PM
I respect what you have to say about the draft.

I'd bet you a billion dollars that's not true.

GI-Dawgs
01-06-2009, 01:24 PM
I would like to take a different approach with an attacking style Defense like what Philadelphia has going on. I recommend bringing someone fresh and energetic like Defensive Back Coach Sean McDermott from Philly. He has been on there staff for 10 years as DB & Linebackers coach so he knows Jim Johnson attacking scheme inside out.

:goodpost:

Sean is one of the brightest young defensive minds in the game. I think he will be a great DC someday. McDermott originally joined the Eagles in 1998 as a scouting administrative coordinator, nice to have some scouting in the background. I'm not hearing his name getting bounced around for any DC jobs, maybe he's waiting for the Philly season to end. Would love to see the Texans bring him in.

barrett
01-06-2009, 02:10 PM
I still think you have to consider ties to Houston, Kubiak or Smith as a major factor in the process. That would prove consistent with many of the other hiring that has gone on. I'm not saying that speaks for anyone in particular but there are alot of factors. For example, many of these playoff teams may loose DC's to HC jobs and they will then become front runners for the up and coming DC's out there we may have to play second fiddle. We may not, but I think this is the waiting game right now. Every week, a few more guys from a playoff team will have a bit more time on there hands.

TexansSeminole
01-06-2009, 02:16 PM
I'd bet you a billion dollars that's not true.

A billion!!!? Be more frugal with your play money michaelm!

michaelm
01-06-2009, 06:18 PM
A billion!!!? Be more frugal with your play money michaelm!

That's not the way I pretend-roll, homie.
I'm a make believe high roller. Everyone knows that!

GP
01-06-2009, 10:46 PM
your gaining wisdom with age, cupacoffee.

in all seriousness though, its looking less and less like Bush.

Then why would he stay for this long when other teams are conducting interviews? If he has NO chance...he'd be out the door and looking for a new job.

No, something is keeping him here. And it can't be for the chance to be a bride's maid again.

And the only thing logical is that he's been told only a miracle hiring off of one of the top playoff teams could unseat him as DC.

The longer there's no hiring of a DC, the longer Bush is denied chances at other places. And other places are not going to interview and/or give Bush a nod unless the announcement can be made fast.

drewmar74
01-07-2009, 12:23 PM
Looks like Mike Nolan is going off the board....

We reported that other night on rumors of former 49ers coach Mike Nolan putting together a staff, and of speculation in league circles that Nolan will become the Packers’ next defensive coordinator.

The Green Bay Press-Gazette reports that Nolan has become the “clear front-runner” to replace Bob Sanders.

Nolan has 11 years of experience as a defensive coordinator, most recently with the Ravens.

“He’s good now. He’s smart,” an unnamed scout told the Press-Gazette. “He can run 3-4, 4-3, he knows it all. It depends on what personnel you have. He’ll do whatever, morph to whatever. He’ll use your players to their strengths. He’s smart that way.”

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

BigBull17
01-07-2009, 12:30 PM
your gaining wisdom with age, cupacoffee.

in all seriousness though, its looking less and less like Bush.

Amen. You cant hire from on staff. No coach deserves the gig.

steelbtexan
01-11-2009, 05:09 PM
Bingo.

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it. Whoever said that Kubiak's future hinges on this new d-coord hiring is correct.

There's no bigger open wound on this team than the problem with our defense. The bleeding has to stop, but the person closing the wound better be top notch. Could they not foresee this very set of circumstances when they brought Richard Smith into the fold? Who really had a great vibe when he was hired? I didn't. And I know a lot of people here who gave it the good old Kool Aid treatment (criticizing the move, yet asking people to support it because, gosh darn it, he's our man now!).

They are targeting BIG grownups right now for the pure and simple fact that they didn't do this the first time around. I will never buy the argument that says there was nobody else, or that we couldn't get someone to come here. In this day and age, either (a) money or (b) the chance to prove something or (c) both will get someone here.

The d-coord pulls the strings, is the conductor of the orchestra, he's the one who essentially takes all that money that the owner invested in players and tries to make it tick in perfect harmony with all components. If McNair invests millions of dollars into players, he ought to invest as much as he can into the coaches so that the investment in the players is stewarded as well as possible. Otherwise, the owner has wasted millions on players AND on coaches.

If you're going to win or fail, win or fail BIG! I just don't think McNair is a risk taker (yet) but maybe he's learning. I think the job Rick Smith has done is a huge indictment of the job Casserly did or didn't do, depending on how you look at it. I don't think Rick Smith would have been in favor of Richard Smith as d-coord.

I just don't think they put the effort into it, and I think money factored into it too. And that, BTW, is my o-p-i-n-i-o-n. And I need to shut 'er down on this topic.


I dont normally agree with the majoity of your posts but this post is SPOT ON.

Maybe I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking. LOL

ArlingtonTexan
01-11-2009, 08:41 PM
just a link that talks about Gregg Williams' style

http://www.houmatoday.com/article/20090111/OPINION01/901100297/1103/SPORTS?Title=Webb_ready_to_show_NFL_scouts_his_gam e

One NFC offensive coordinator who has gone up against Williams’ defenses the past few years said he will be an excellent fit for the Saints if he can get the proper talent.

“Gregg is a really talented coach,” the NFC offensive coordinator said. “But (Mickey) Loomis and Sean Payton need to get him better people. Williams likes his defensive ends to speed up the field and put pressure on the quarterback. He uses a host of multiple stunts up front to try and confuse the quarterback and throw him off rhythm. You can see he values speed over size at linebacker and he loves to mix up his defensive coverages. In his schemes he likes to man-up with his cornerbacks and allow his safeties room to roam. In going up against him it is a chess match to see which side he will blitz someone from and he likes to play a physical style. He is a quality coach, very smart and he mixes up the man coverages and cover-2 schemes very well. Like Sean, he is a bit arrogant as a playcaller, but the guy is very effective.

Honesty I don’t think that other than Smith, defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis, linebacker Jonathan Vilma and maybe the rookie cornerback Tracy Porter, no other player on that defense could be in our starting lineup. That doesn’t mean that guys like Scott Fujita and maybe Charles Grant couldn’t play and start for others, but the talent level on the Saints defensive team is limited.”

The Pencil Neck
01-11-2009, 09:05 PM
just a link that talks about Gregg Williams' style

http://www.houmatoday.com/article/20090111/OPINION01/901100297/1103/SPORTS?Title=Webb_ready_to_show_NFL_scouts_his_gam e

That's interesting. Thanks for the link.

Maybe he'd find us a better fit.

:fans:

wolf123
01-11-2009, 10:04 PM
I think the reason you don't hear the texans interviewing alot of DC and interviewing marinelli first means that Bush is the clear choice in there minds.

GP
01-11-2009, 10:04 PM
I dont normally agree with the majoity of your posts but this post is SPOT ON.

Maybe I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking. LOL

I'm in your head. :brando:

steelbtexan
01-11-2009, 10:19 PM
I was wondering what was in there. LOL

Hottoddie
01-11-2009, 11:02 PM
I think the reason you don't hear the texans interviewing alot of DC and interviewing marinelli first means that Bush is the clear choice in there minds.

Or, it could mean they're going after a big fish that just got booted out of the playoffs. Didn't the Giants just get booted out? Can you say Steve Spagnuolo? ;)

Goldensilence
01-11-2009, 11:36 PM
Or, it could mean they're going after a big fish that just got booted out of the playoffs. Didn't the Giants just get booted out? Can you say Steve Spagnuolo? ;)

Why would Spag leave one DC for another? I am pretty sure there is a stipulation about not being able to make lateral moves while under contract with one team. However I wouldn't mind giving their DL coach some consideration. He's done very well with that line the past few years and I think what they do with the line in NY would translate well with the players we have here. Otherwise looks like we might be waiting for McDermott to be freed up but so are the Broncos.

Hottoddie
01-11-2009, 11:51 PM
Why would Spag leave one DC for another? I am pretty sure there is a stipulation about not being able to make lateral moves while under contract with one team.

You'd have to make him the Assistant Head Coach/DC & give him a lot more money.

mexican_texan
01-12-2009, 12:28 AM
The top 3 defenses in the league are still alive. I'd bet good money our next coordinator is in one of those teams.

barrett
01-12-2009, 12:30 AM
Why would Spag leave one DC for another? I am pretty sure there is a stipulation about not being able to make lateral moves while under contract with one team. However I wouldn't mind giving their DL coach some consideration. He's done very well with that line the past few years and I think what they do with the line in NY would translate well with the players we have here. Otherwise looks like we might be waiting for McDermott to be freed up but so are the Broncos.

NFL.com's Schefter is reporting that Nolan has already been nailed down in Denver as the DC

So in my mind, Williams, Gray and McDermott are all still possible options for us. Oh, and Bush of course.

Jackie Chiles
01-12-2009, 12:41 AM
NFL.com's Schefter is reporting that Nolan has already been nailed down in Denver as the DC

So in my mind, Williams, Gray and McDermott are all still possible options for us. Oh, and Bush of course.

It is beginning to look like we are targeting someone on a current or recently eliminated playoff team. As the new head coaches get their staffs together the amount of available coordinator jobs decreases. If we are patient it might actually work in our favor. Some good candidates could still be looking for chairs when the music stops. If we don't get our guy Bush probably becomes our guy. I would still like to see us set up interviews with Gregg Williams and Jerry Gray.

jdog
01-12-2009, 01:16 AM
The top 3 defenses in the league are still alive. I'd bet good money our next coordinator is in one of those teams.

Chuck Cecil

The Pencil Neck
01-12-2009, 12:26 PM
Or, it could mean they're going after a big fish that just got booted out of the playoffs. Didn't the Giants just get booted out? Can you say Steve Spagnuolo? ;)

I can say Steve Spagnuolo... but he can say "HC" and that's the only reason he'd leave New York. He's not going to leave NY to become a DC somewhere else unless he really, really dislikes Coughlin.

GP
01-12-2009, 12:45 PM
I don't know why, but I have a feeling it's Sean McDermott with Philly that we're waiting to interview.

Rex Ryan's going to be a HC. He isn't moving laterally.

Dick Labeau is in paradise.

Someone mentioned Chuck Cecil, DB coach with Titans. Don't see that one, myself. Bud Adams probably has his coaches and players wiretapped and on full surveillance, especially if they plan on moving to Houston. How rich would it be to have a DB coach from the Titans? Lots of insider info right there...

Or...as I have predicted, and still maintain to this day: Frank Bush is the clear-cut leader for the job, and the only way he's unseated is if we land one of those top-prized coaches that are still in the playoffs.

I don't feel confident that we can land any of the hot commodities right now.

(Mr. Optimism strikes again!)

Insideop
01-12-2009, 02:55 PM
I don't know why, but I have a feeling it's Sean McDermott with Philly that we're waiting to interview.

Rex Ryan's going to be a HC. He isn't moving laterally.

Dick Labeau is in paradise.

Someone mentioned Chuck Cecil, DB coach with Titans. Don't see that one, myself. Bud Adams probably has his coaches and players wiretapped and on full surveillance, especially if they plan on moving to Houston. How rich would it be to have a DB coach from the Titans? Lots of insider info right there...

Or...as I have predicted, and still maintain to this day: Frank Bush is the clear-cut leader for the job, and the only way he's unseated is if we land one of those top-prized coaches that are still in the playoffs.

I don't feel confident that we can land any of the hot commodities right now.

(Mr. Optimism strikes again!)

Just read in the chron that the Tacks DC is probably going to be the HC at Detroit. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6206621.html If that's the case he might end up taking Cecil as his DC.

barrett
01-12-2009, 03:02 PM
Every DC that gets a HC job means one more team competing with us for a new DC. I'm a mess. I hate being patient. Diligence sucks. Rick Smith is the man. I wouldn't want his job cuz then he wouldn't have it and we would suck.

Go Texans.

El Tejano
01-12-2009, 03:32 PM
Just read in the chron that the Tacks DC is probably going to be the HC at Detroit. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6206621.html If that's the case he might end up taking Cecil as his DC.

Albert Haynesworth to the Lions in 09.

Insideop
01-12-2009, 04:05 PM
Albert Haynesworth to the Lions in 09.

Good! If Schwartz goes to the Lions and takes Cecil and "Fat Albert" with him that would be great. Maybe the "tacks" defense wouldn't be so good anymore and we could beat them on a regular basis. :bat:

drewmar74
01-12-2009, 04:07 PM
Good! If Schwartz goes to the Lions and takes Cecil and "Fat Albert" with him that would be great. Maybe the "tacks" defense wouldn't be so good anymore and we could beat them on a regular basis. :bat:

Does that mean that Matt Schaub would have to run around LP Field screaming "This is my house!" while pumping his fist after a victory?

norcaltexan
01-12-2009, 04:20 PM
Does that mean that Matt Schaub would have to run around LP Field screaming "This is my house!" while pumping his fist after a victory?
This means that Gregg Williams would probably go back to the Titans :foottap:

Vinny
01-12-2009, 04:29 PM
Good! If Schwartz goes to the Lions and takes Cecil and "Fat Albert" with him that would be great. Maybe the "tacks" defense wouldn't be so good anymore and we could beat them on a regular basis. :bat:That is Jeff Fisher's defense...not a Jim Schwartz design.

Texan_Bill
01-12-2009, 04:42 PM
That is Jeff Fisher's defense...not a Jim Schwartz design.

Buddy Ryan disciple that continued the '46' defense when he was hired as the Oilers DC (to replace Ryan). It's evolved since those days, but Vinny is correct - it's Fisher's defense..

Insideop
01-12-2009, 05:22 PM
That is Jeff Fisher's defense...not a Jim Schwartz design.

Are you saying Fisher called the defensive plays instead of Schwartz like Kubes called the offense instead of little Shanny? I can't imagine that since Schwartz has been with the tacks for 10 years and 8 of those as DC.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, even though it's Fisher's defense, it's still going to be hard to find a replacement that you can rely on and have been counting on to run your defense like these past 8 years. My guess is they will pick from within the organization (knows the system) to fill the DC spot. Either way though, it could be a little disruptive to the team. JMHO!

Fox
01-12-2009, 05:42 PM
Sean McDermott seems to be a hot name around here, could someone enlighten me on why he's destined to be a great DC? I know he's coached up some players in the Eagles secondary, but outside of that what makes you think he'll be able to turn our situation around? Is he going to be able to make our defense emulate Jim Johnson's?

TexansSeminole
01-12-2009, 05:47 PM
Are you saying Fisher called the defensive plays instead of Schwartz like Kubes called the offense instead of little Shanny? I can't imagine that since Schwartz has been with the tacks for 10 years and 8 of those as DC.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, even though it's Fisher's defense, it's still going to be hard to find a replacement that you can rely on and have been counting on to run your defense like these past 8 years. My guess is they will pick from within the organization (knows the system) to fill the DC spot. Either way though, it could be a little disruptive to the team. JMHO!

I think the way you coach your defensive players and teach them the game is more important than play calling. Sure if your play calls are terrible then you suffer but defense is about reacting. If you can coach your players to be excellent at reacting to plays then you have done alot of the work already.

I would agree with Vinny, and add that I would be wary of any coach that is under a great teacher. That's not to say that they aren't any good, look at Spagnola, but you've got to be careful.

Jackie Chiles
01-12-2009, 06:15 PM
Sean McDermott seems to be a hot name around here, could someone enlighten me on why he's destined to be a great DC? I know he's coached up some players in the Eagles secondary, but outside of that what makes you think he'll be able to turn our situation around? Is he going to be able to make our defense emulate Jim Johnson's?

There was a quote from PFW a while back that mentioned him as the next great Jim Johnson protege and with the success the Eagles keep having, not to mention how well Spagnuolo has done in NY it makes him very attractive. LZ actually posted in his blog another name from the Eagles staff, their LB coach, Bill Shuey so that might be another name to keep in mind. I think after what we have seen the last few years a lot of Texan fans, myself included, would like to see a more aggressive defensive approach and Jim Johnson's style fits that to a T.

The Pencil Neck
01-12-2009, 10:37 PM
Sean McDermott seems to be a hot name around here, could someone enlighten me on why he's destined to be a great DC? I know he's coached up some players in the Eagles secondary, but outside of that what makes you think he'll be able to turn our situation around? Is he going to be able to make our defense emulate Jim Johnson's?

That's the way it works.

Head Coach candidates usually come from ex-Head Coaches and Coordinators from successful squads and less commonly from position coaches.

Coordinators normally come from ex-Coordinators or position coaches from hot squads.

That's how coaching trees grow.

McDermott is an experienced position coach from the Eagles and the last position coach from the Eagles made into a DC has had success.

Fox
01-13-2009, 06:32 PM
That's the way it works.

Head Coach candidates usually come from ex-Head Coaches and Coordinators from successful squads and less commonly from position coaches.

Coordinators normally come from ex-Coordinators or position coaches from hot squads.

That's how coaching trees grow.

McDermott is an experienced position coach from the Eagles and the last position coach from the Eagles made into a DC has had success.

I think I understand that, I was just looking to see if anyone knew anything specifically about the guy other than he was a coach for the Eagles that would indicate he was going to make a great DC.

bckey
01-14-2009, 02:17 AM
LZ. How about Jacob Burney for dl coach? That fits in with with the way Kubiak hires (Nobody unfamiliar) and Denver has given permission for any assisstant coach to interview. By the way. Good call on the other 2. Especially Gibbs.