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View Full Version : Richard Smith/Hoke/Franklin - fired!!!


DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 12:02 PM
Front page of Chron (http://chron.com/sports) sports page!

The Texans have fired defensive coordinator Richard Smith, defensive backs coach Jon Hoke and defensive line coach Jethro Franklin. Smith, who was under fire from fans and media this season, was the coordinator during Gary Kubiak's first three seasons.

stingray
12-30-2008, 12:03 PM
Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Drew_Smoke
12-30-2008, 12:04 PM
Nothing new here...lol

It was past time for a change.

Vinny
12-30-2008, 12:05 PM
so....it looks like we will promote in house since Bush and a few other coaches are still around. Most coordinators want to bring in their own staff.

alphajoker
12-30-2008, 12:05 PM
I wonder what the reasons were for firing Hoke and Franklin?

b0ng
12-30-2008, 12:06 PM
Jay Glazer calls it.

It feels much better to be rid of that guy.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2008, 12:06 PM
Thank God Hoke is on that list.

Vinny
12-30-2008, 12:07 PM
I wonder what the reasons were for firing Hoke and Franklin?
I'll give you two...the line has been awful and the secondary has been awful.

TEXANS84
12-30-2008, 12:07 PM
so....it looks like we will promote in house since Bush and a few other coaches are still around. Most coordinators want to bring in their own staff.

I figured Bush would still be around, seemed like that was Kubes original intention as a DC/support staff since day 1.

If my mind serves me correctly, Arizona blocked us from talking with him.

FirstTexansFan
12-30-2008, 12:07 PM
Ok, I can remove my Fire'em All Avatar, as it was based on what Kubes would do with the DC. :)

TexansFanatic
12-30-2008, 12:08 PM
Yessssssssss!!!!

mexican_texan
12-30-2008, 12:09 PM
That pink soap is powerful.

281
12-30-2008, 12:10 PM
words can't describe my happiness right now!

alphajoker
12-30-2008, 12:11 PM
I'll give you two...the line has been awful and the secondary has been awful.

LOL, can't argue with you there.

Vinny
12-30-2008, 12:11 PM
I figured Bush would still be around, seemed like that was Kubes original intention as a DC/support staff since day 1.

If my mind serves me correctly, Arizona blocked us from talking with him.

you are correct. I hope we have fewer chiefs and more indians with our next staff. Kubiak did state that Rhodes will be retained for a second season though...perhaps he is Hokes replacement.

beerlover
12-30-2008, 12:12 PM
Happy New Year :chickendance:

Texan JBZ
12-30-2008, 12:12 PM
Halleujah Brother!

Showtime100
12-30-2008, 12:12 PM
I think Brando has some great avatars in the sig/avatar thread if anyone is interested...lol.

Just make payments to.....

Brando
c/o Showtime Vacations Inc.
P.O. Box 8-8
Austin, Tx.

Too bad Mike Tomlin is busy with a better job.

:fans::fans::fans:

Happy Freaking New Year! Now the real work begins. The defense has plenty to do from now until September.

eriadoc
12-30-2008, 12:12 PM
My happiness knows no bounds (as long as I stay out of the NSZ, that is).

Thorn
12-30-2008, 12:13 PM
Good riddance to Smithy boy.

I’d imagine we’ll be welcoming Frank Bush as our new defensive coordinator, but I guess we’ll have to wait on that. I’m sure the Texans management wants to weigh their options before making that decision.

texasguy346
12-30-2008, 12:14 PM
Kubiak did state that Rhodes will be retained for a second season though...perhaps he is Hokes replacement.

That was my first thought when I heard that Hoke was gone as well. I'm interested to see who they bring in to replace Franklin though.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2008, 12:14 PM
My happiness knows no bounds (as long as I stay out of the NSZ, that is).

The NSZ is like the Force and the Mafia. Don't fight it, it is science.
:texflag:

Texan_Bill
12-30-2008, 12:15 PM
I wonder what the reasons were for firing Hoke and Franklin?

Pretty simple. The secondary and the line play sucked.... Hoke and Franklin, exit stage left.

HOU-TEX
12-30-2008, 12:15 PM
you are correct. I hope we have fewer chiefs and more indians with our next staff. Kubiak did state that Rhodes will be retained for a second season though...perhaps he is Hokes replacement.

As long as we do not become primarily a zone team, I'd be ok with it. I can't stand zone coverage. I do understand it is neccessary at times, but I just can't bare seeing it 100% of the time.

GuerillaBlack
12-30-2008, 12:17 PM
Hell to the yeah. Re-sign D-Rob, and bring and Nmadi.

Porky
12-30-2008, 12:24 PM
Yessss!

:splits::toast2::highfive::shots::texflag:

HOU-TEX
12-30-2008, 12:24 PM
I've been sicker than a dog for the past couple of days, but I'm so giddy right now I damn near dotted my drawers.

It just sucks to high Heaven we had to wait so long for it to happen. Now we have to wait even longer to see the NEW defense take the field. :gun:

mattieuk
12-30-2008, 12:24 PM
Its been coming, happy its over with now, and we can look for a new defensive team.

One step closer to a winning record next year I think. I looking forward to less giving up 15 yards every pass play whilst we're winning in the fourth quarter :)

Ole Miss Texan
12-30-2008, 12:25 PM
Sweet. So an easy step would be Bush move up to DC and maybe Rhodes as secondary coach. I wonder if we bring in someone else, Eagles secondary coach has been rumored...well more of just an idea. That could keep Bush as senior defensive whatever his title is as well as reconcentrate on the DL.

This is pretty exciting. I just hope we can have more of an attitude on defense. One that is more aggressive than we've had.

Brandon420tx
12-30-2008, 12:27 PM
I wonder if Kubiak personally meeting with all the players during his "evaluation" before addressing the staff had anything to do with these firings?

Namely ... a few dissenters among the defense??


Robinson a wanted man: Cornerback Dunta Robinson, the Texans’ career interceptions leader with 13, will be a free agent this offseason. He said on Moday that he wants to finish his career with the Texans, and Kubiak let Robinson know during their one-on-one meeting that the feeling is mutual.

“I told him I want him back on our football team,” Kubiak said. “I understand the business. I understand the world he’s in as far as free agency goes and those type of things. But I think the world of Dunta and I know we’re a better football team when he’s played for us.

“But I also understand there’s a lot of work to be done to get that done. I had a good visit with him, and so we’ll see what happens.”

Robinson, whom the Texans drafted 10th overall in 2004, missed the first six games of the 2008 season while rehabbing severe knee and hamstring injuries. Once he returned to the field, he helped to spark a late-season turnaround for the Texans' defense. The Texans finished the season 5-1 in games with Robinson in the starting lineup.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5074
Good to see Dunta Robinson wants to stay in Houston

imatexan
12-30-2008, 12:27 PM
Sad day.

Not!

nunusguy
12-30-2008, 12:30 PM
Holland, the LB coach, apparently doesn't hang out with Smith, Hoke, & Franklin ?

gary
12-30-2008, 12:38 PM
Great news this is now bring in Namdi please.

Showtime100
12-30-2008, 12:38 PM
Maybe this isn't worthy for ESPN to talk about, but all they have covered since the Smith firing is more Jets and Cowboys BS. Same for NFLN and that irritates me.

If it were those teams getting rid of a DC I'd be watching the ex-DC's car heading down a freeway from a helicopter right now.

hookinreds
12-30-2008, 12:40 PM
...in true SNL fashion, i read the title and I jizzed in my pants

J-Russ
12-30-2008, 12:41 PM
like, omg, omg, omg, omg. It's over, the nightmare, it's really really over.

:doot::doot::doot::doot::doot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLt7clQbBzo

Oh and thanks to Texans_Pride for breaking the news... you're like my hero of the day. For realz.

Oh and Painekiller, you had me scared there with the whole Richard Smith is going to stay posts.... sorta like the Swtbound "David Carr is going to be our QB forever" post, months later he got *******canned. I don't know which firing made me happier.

P.S: The power of the pink soap don't lie! Long live the magical Pink Soap.

MannyFresh
12-30-2008, 12:41 PM
Maybe they can pay some big bucks to Spagnuolo.

hookinreds
12-30-2008, 12:42 PM
Maybe this isn't worthy for ESPN to talk about, but all they have covered since the Smith firing is more Jets and Cowboys BS. Same for NFLN and that irritates me.

If it were those teams getting rid of a DC I'd be watching the ex-DC's car heading down a freeway from a helicopter right now.

It's on, we just don't get the coverage in Austin. :whip:

hot pickle
12-30-2008, 12:51 PM
I wonder what the reasons were for firing Hoke and Franklin?

ive wanted hoke fired for some time now...and i can see the firing of franklin due to the shitty play of the D-line other then mario

painekiller
12-30-2008, 12:56 PM
like, omg, omg, omg, omg. It's over, the nightmare, it's really really over.

:doot::doot::doot::doot::doot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLt7clQbBzo

Oh and thanks to Texans_Pride for breaking the news... you're like my hero of the day. For realz.

Oh and Painekiller, you had me scared there with the whole Richard Smith is going to stay posts.... sorta like the Swtbound "David Carr is going to be our QB forever" post, months later he got *******canned. I don't know which firing made me happier.

P.S: The power of the pink soap don't lie! Long live the magical Pink Soap.

John McClain's video with the girl after Kubiak's press conference made it clearer Kubiak was firing some guys, Kubiak said he wanted Rhodes back and the same thing about Gibbs. When asked about Smith he said they where evaluating all the coaches, McClain said he has worked with the man for 3 years, you don't need to evaluate.

Glad my fears turned out to be wrong.

Looks like Frank Bush, Johnny Holland and Ray Rhodes are the core. Maybe Bubba McDowell who interned here this summer get a shot at the CBs.

I am not expecting a big name when Bush was saved.

Nawzer
12-30-2008, 01:00 PM
Wow! This much excitement over the firing of a couple of assistant coaches. LOL. Anyway, wish those guys the best because even if they sucked they tried their best. Hopefully Kubiak and crew will get better coaches.

Errant Hothy
12-30-2008, 01:10 PM
Happy and sad at the same time. Happy because Smith is gone, along with some other dead weight; and sad because the non-firing of Bush means we will NOT be seeing a new DC.

I hope Bush brings a new culture to the D, or else this will all be for naught.

MannyFresh
12-30-2008, 01:11 PM
Happy and sad at the same time. Happy because Smith is gone, along with some other dead weight; and sad because the non-firing of Bush means we will NOT be seeing a new DC.

I hope Bush brings a new culture to the D, or else this will all be for naught.

I guess Bush is cheaper than considering a genius like Spagnuolo.

OzzO
12-30-2008, 01:13 PM
WHEEEEEEEE!!!!!


.. oh wait... now I gotta change my avatar.

Errant Hothy
12-30-2008, 01:16 PM
For what it's worth, McClain seems pretty certain (saying so in his chat that's live right now) that the team will conduct a search for a new DC. Hopefully he's right.

painekiller
12-30-2008, 01:17 PM
I guess Bush is cheaper than considering a genius like Spagnuolo.

Or Gregg Williams and his $2M price tag as a DC for Washington.

Does Kubiak make $2M?

Hervoyel
12-30-2008, 01:18 PM
Happy and sad at the same time. Happy because Smith is gone, along with some other dead weight; and sad because the non-firing of Bush means we will NOT be seeing a new DC.

I hope Bush brings a new culture to the D, or else this will all be for naught.

I pray that Frank Bush isn't a forgone conclusion. If he is then I pray that Richard Smith defined what the defense was completely over the last few years and that nothing we saw reflected Frank Bush. If that isn't the case then we could very well be doing a "rinse and repeat" of this in 2-3 more years.

I want them to look at the wealth of defensive coaching talent that's available out there and come to an intelligent decision. If they don't find a fit they like and decide to stick with Bush I'm not goin to be upset but if they don't at least talk to some of these people then I'm going to be really angry. Even most of these 3-4 guys have some experience with a 4-3 and come from a scheme that played plenty of hybrid. There are very good options out there right now (almost a first since the Texans came on the scene).

IlliniJen
12-30-2008, 01:18 PM
:splits::texflag::splits::texflag:

The Texans did the right thing. Thank goodness.

Now, are we looking at Bush being promoted to DC? Does this really give us anything new or exciting? I'm not at all happy with the prospect of promoting from within when our defense was horrible in all facets of the game. I fear more of the same if we settle for an insider. I could be completely wrong though.

JWarren14
12-30-2008, 01:20 PM
YEAH BABY!!!! I am interested to see who the candidates are.

RagingBull
12-30-2008, 01:21 PM
I am guessing they kept Bush as plan B in case they can't get someone better.

Malloy
12-30-2008, 01:23 PM
its like a second christmas!! Thank you Gary Santa!

djohn2oo8
12-30-2008, 01:23 PM
A late christmas present is better than not at all.:toast2: This is long overdue, and hopefully we can bring in some tough, hardnose D like Will Muschamp did at Texas. I'm pretty sure that Taylor Mays wont fall to us in the draft, so we have to go DE with first pick. Now I am waiting on a present from the Astros, like a Jon Garland, or somebody. Guess i'll be waiting.

Errant Hothy
12-30-2008, 01:27 PM
I'm thinking that Okoye's lack of development might have been one of the triggers to Franklin getting fired. Makes you wonder just how good Mario is.

nunusguy
12-30-2008, 01:29 PM
I dunno was this the key PR move to appease the frustrated fans and avoid
TV blackouts in the '09 season ?

swtbound07
12-30-2008, 01:31 PM
free at last, free at last!

Double Barrel
12-30-2008, 01:35 PM
Great news! :cowboy1:

nunusguy
12-30-2008, 01:38 PM
I'm thinking that Okoye's lack of development might have been one of the triggers to Franklin getting fired. Makes you wonder just how good Mario is.
On the other hand he's got to be given a lot of credit for the development of Cochran, Bullman, & DelJuan. I can remember a Chron special where Bullman praised Franklin for all that he learned being coached by Franklin.
And all of these guys have my sympthathy and best wishs for landing on their feet as quickly as possible with another employment opportunity. This is after all agrim economy. Don't like to see anyone become unemplyed involuntarily.
Getting canned sucks real, real bad in several ways.

Yankee_In_TX
12-30-2008, 01:39 PM
I dunno was this the key PR move to appease the frustrated fans and avoid
TV blackouts in the '09 season ?

With the Texans struggle to develop a fanbase, my completely unkowing opinion is that they'd arrange for the extra tickets to be sold rather than allow blackouts.

disaacks3
12-30-2008, 01:39 PM
As long as we bring in viable candidates for the DC position and don't "give it" to Bush, I'm happy as a clam about this!

Now we may finally get to see if it's the personnel or the system...I firmly believe that it's a bit of both, but I'll be giddy when our DBs aren't playing 12 yds off when it's 3rd & 8.

brakos82
12-30-2008, 01:39 PM
Ding-Dong Rick Smith is dead... Rick Smith is dead... Rick Smith is dead! :smiliedance:

hookinreds
12-30-2008, 01:41 PM
I dunno was this the key PR move to appease the frustrated fans and avoid
TV blackouts in the '09 season ?


I'd say it's half the battle. HOLY CRAP, I FINALLY FIGURED IT OUT. GI Joe says "knowing is half the battle"...I guess actually following through with dumping the dead weight is the other half.

Ease some of the frustration on behalf of the fans...the Texans would sell out next year anyway, avoiding any blackouts.

Ryan
12-30-2008, 01:45 PM
We no longer need the pink soap!:texflag:

noxiousdog
12-30-2008, 01:49 PM
so....it looks like we will promote in house since Bush and a few other coaches are still around. Most coordinators want to bring in their own staff.

We should know at 1:30. If they are promoting in house, you'd think they'd announce it then. Though, I suppose Bush could be the fall back plan if the other candidates are too expensive/don't want to be here.

Good observation though.

Ryan
12-30-2008, 01:50 PM
We should know at 1:30. If they are promoting in house, you'd think they'd announce it then. Though, I suppose Bush could be the fall back plan if the other candidates are too expensive/don't want to be here.

Good observation though.

We should at least be interviewing from the outside first. At least I hope so.

Specnatz
12-30-2008, 01:50 PM
I guess Bush is cheaper than considering a genius like Spagnuolo.

Are you talking about the DC for the New York Giants?

After checking the Giants website I see that you are. So with teams looking at him for a Head Coaching position you expect him to make a lateral move to the Texans while still under contract with the Giants?

:spit:

OK I am sorry I am better now ...

:spit:

Sorry but this is some funny stuff right here.

Maybe we could get Bill Cowher to coach the Defense.

mike moffat
12-30-2008, 01:50 PM
I'm tired of arm tackling and watching receivers eat us up. Good move.

ObsiWan
12-30-2008, 01:50 PM
:splits::texflag::splits::texflag:

The Texans did the right thing. Thank goodness.

Now, are we looking at Bush being promoted to DC? Does this really give us anything new or exciting? I'm not at all happy with the prospect of promoting from within when our defense was horrible in all facets of the game. I fear more of the same if we settle for an insider. I could be completely wrong though.

I wonder if that was the case, why wouldn't they make that announcement now? Seems to me Bush will get the job only if none of the other guys on their short list are interested/available.

michaelm
12-30-2008, 01:54 PM
so....it looks like we will promote in house since Bush and a few other coaches are still around. Most coordinators want to bring in their own staff.

I agree with you, but I am hopeful that it only indicates that they are keeping Bush on board so he can be one candidate in the hiring process.
It would make sense to keep him on board and tell him he will have a fair shot along with whatever external candidates they interview. Maybe he's indicated which of the existing coaches he would retain if he won the job, so they kept them around for now.


grrr. Even as I type this, it reeks of wishful thinking.

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 01:55 PM
I guess Bush is cheaper than considering a genius like Spagnuolo.

Why in the world would Steve Spagnuolo go from DC of the NYG to DC of the Texans? Money? No chance. Spags will be a head coach in 2009... and even if money WOULD lure him away to stay a DC (which it never would) he would command as much or more money than Kubiak makes. Not going to happen. It has nothing to do with the Texans being cheap.

I'm also guessing Bush is plan B if they don't get the guy the want. I think if he was going to be the new DC, they would have announced it at the same time as Smith's firing.

We'll know more in 30 minutes. :D

barrett
12-30-2008, 02:02 PM
I think we don't need to assume that Bush will take over. It makes sense that when evaluating coaches you would fire the ones that you know you don't want to keep and you don't fire the ones that performed well. If you bring in an outside DC then he has these guys to choose from in his quest to fill a staff. If he has guys he likes better, you dismiss these guys.

I don't think it says that they are for sure promoting Bush. Of course I could be proven wrong in 30 minutes. But it makes sense to keep them on at this stage. I am certainly a proponent of bringing in a DC that has a proven track record. Thus far Gregg Williams seems to be the best name I've heard come up on this board.

I'm excited that they moved swiftly to take advantange of all the coaching moves that will take place.

Brandon420tx
12-30-2008, 02:04 PM
Why in the world would Steve Spagnuolo go from DC of the NYG to DC of the Texans? Money? No chance. Spags will be a head coach in 2009... and even if money WOULD lure him away to stay a DC (which it never would) he would command as much or more money than Kubiak makes. Not going to happen. It has nothing to do with the Texans being cheap.

I'm also guessing Bush is plan B if they don't get the guy the want. I think if he was going to be the new DC, they would have announced it at the same time as Smith's firing.

We'll know more in 30 minutes. :D

Which position coach on the Giants has the most experiance with all aspects of defense, starting from the DLine Coach, to the linebackers (I don't really consider their secondary too good, more a byproduce of the front 7)

valleytexfan
12-30-2008, 02:06 PM
HAPPY FREAKIN' NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:doot:

IlliniJen
12-30-2008, 02:09 PM
I wonder if that was the case, why wouldn't they make that announcement now? Seems to me Bush will get the job only if none of the other guys on their short list are interested/available.

Someone else on a previous page suggested that they could be keeping Bush as a backup option in case they don't get who they want as DC. Interesting theory.

Errant Hothy
12-30-2008, 02:10 PM
I'm starting to wonder what Bush, Holland and Rhodes did that covinced Smith and Kubiak that they should keep their jobs.

Any thoughts?

barrett
12-30-2008, 02:12 PM
certainly the worst move would have been to fire everybody and start over. it's not like there are good asst. coaches just laying around watching tv. it's hard to build a solid staff just like it is a roster. this was the smartest move. i just hope they don't give it to Bush with out playing the field.

barrett
12-30-2008, 02:16 PM
I'm starting to wonder what Bush, Holland and Rhodes did that covinced Smith and Kubiak that they should keep their jobs.

Any thoughts?

It's hard to say with Bush. As an asst. DC you don't really know what his role was. But with Holland it's easy to say that you saw success in Demeco and great potential in Diles and Adibi so something good is happening there. There technique seemed decent. Unlike the DB's who seemed to be coached poorly with bad angles and poor technique. Rhodes I think is a different situation, I think he brings experience as a HC DC and Asst. to a young staff and more importantly, a young HC in Kubiak. I think he is a confidant to Kubiak on how to be a successful HC on top of a proven defensive knowledge base.

Tailgate
12-30-2008, 02:17 PM
Great stuff. What perfect timing with all the peeps that are available as well. The other great thing is that we are going to be up there in terms of demand imo. We have key talent pieces in place already and we are an up and coming team in a well run and respected organization. We should def. be up there with getting alot of serious interviews.

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 02:17 PM
Someone else on a previous page suggested that they could be keeping Bush as a backup option in case they don't get who they want as DC. Interesting theory.

I was one of the ones who thinks that - it's really the only thing that makes sense to me. They would have announced Bush immediately if he was the guy - but at the same time - DCs usually want to bring all their own guys in, so if they are going to get a guy like Williams or Marinelli - Bush and Holland still might not stick around. That would suck, because Holland does a great job IMO.

IlliniJen
12-30-2008, 02:27 PM
I was one of the ones who thinks that - it's really the only thing that makes sense to me. They would have announced Bush immediately if he was the guy - but at the same time - DCs usually want to bring all their own guys in, so if they are going to get a guy like Williams or Marinelli - Bush and Holland still might not stick around. That would suck, because Holland does a great job IMO.

That's cuz you smart. Maybe it will play out that way. Could be that they didn't announce Bush right away because they have to go through some official interview period? I'm not sure what the rules are anymore, especially with the effort to get minorities hired in NFL coaching positions.

I wonder what the timing on this all will be. Firing Smith is a relief, I'm just excited to see what the Texans do now.

Texans_Chick
12-30-2008, 02:32 PM
I'm starting to wonder what Bush, Holland and Rhodes did that covinced Smith and Kubiak that they should keep their jobs.

Any thoughts?

I think it is more that they didn't do anything to affirmatively lose their jobs.

Smith's defense performed poorly for three years. And he had lost his players.

The Texans were Hoke's only NFL job.

IIRC, Jethro Franklin lost his job with Tampa Bay after the pass rushing stats for the team were really really terrible.

Holland is someone that the linebackers really really like. I understand it was Holland that fought to get DeMeco Ryans in 2006.

I am hoping that Bush is plan B if they can't get someone better.

As for Rhodes, he is an old hand.

I am guessing that they want to keep some guys for continuity and if the new guy doesn't like them for the position they are in, they will get reassigned like Bob Karmelowicz did.

Kubiak was very vague with Rhode's position with the team.

Ryan
12-30-2008, 02:37 PM
All I got out of Kubes presser was that he will interview Bush for the DC job.

barrett
12-30-2008, 02:38 PM
and other guys. he also said they aren't requiring the new DC to have experience but that they will look for 4-3 guys but not eleminate anyone.

Texans_Chick
12-30-2008, 02:39 PM
I found it disconcerting Kubiak's response to the experience question....

Something to the effect of we will be talking to people with DC experience and some without and that it wasn't the key issue.

Bleh.

He needs an experienced DC. He just does.

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 02:40 PM
All I got out of Kubes presser was that he will interview Bush for the DC job.

Yeah, he never really reveals... anything. Heh.

So just like a lot of us thought and hoped - Bush is going to be interviewed as a Plan B candidate.

I don't really want to celebrate a guy losing his job and income anymore - especially during the holidays... but I'll just say I'm glad they've moved on, and I'm glad Kubiak was able to break from his intensely loyal attitude toward these things.

It'll probably be a few weeks, but I'm happy to hear that Kubes is planning to talk to some very experienced, longtime NFL defensive people for this job.

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 02:42 PM
I found it disconcerting Kubiak's response to the experience question....

Something to the effect of we will be talking to people with DC experience and some without and that it wasn't the key issue.

Bleh.

He needs an experienced DC. He just does.

Totally agree. We can NOT roll the dice on a boy genius on defense.

He did kind of contradict himself though - he said he wasn't concerned about a lot of experience, then he said he would be talking to a lot of guys who have coached in this league a lot of years.

With Kubiak and the media - I just assume he's revealing as little as possible so I'm not too concerned about what he said. I do think he wants an experienced guy.

michaelm
12-30-2008, 02:42 PM
I found it disconcerting Kubiak's response to the experience question....

Something to the effect of we will be talking to people with DC experience and some without and that it wasn't the key issue.

Bleh.

He needs an experienced DC. He just does.

Pobably just leaving everything open ended and not eliminating possibilties right off the bat.

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 02:43 PM
As long as we bring in viable candidates for the DC position and don't "give it" to Bush, I'm happy as a clam about this!

I just hope if Bush does get it everyone doesn't assume he was given the job. Never mind--totally unrealistic hope.

I'm starting to wonder what Bush, Holland and Rhodes did that covinced Smith and Kubiak that they should keep their jobs.

Any thoughts?

Bush--to compete for the job.
Holland--development of the LBs has been good with a 7th rounder and rookie playing well.
Rhodes--well respected mind. This year he worked the safeties and got Barber going as well as getting production from Wilson/Ferguson.

I don't see the reason to limit the coaching search to only guys with previous DC experience. Safer doesn't mean better.

Jackie Chiles
12-30-2008, 02:44 PM
I think we don't need to assume that Bush will take over. It makes sense that when evaluating coaches you would fire the ones that you know you don't want to keep and you don't fire the ones that performed well. If you bring in an outside DC then he has these guys to choose from in his quest to fill a staff. If he has guys he likes better, you dismiss these guys.

I don't think it says that they are for sure promoting Bush. Of course I could be proven wrong in 30 minutes. But it makes sense to keep them on at this stage. I am certainly a proponent of bringing in a DC that has a proven track record. Thus far Gregg Williams seems to be the best name I've heard come up on this board.

I'm excited that they moved swiftly to take advantange of all the coaching moves that will take place.

I missed the press conference but what Barrett says pretty much sums up what I think will happen. We kept some assistant coaches who we believe did their jobs well and have some talent. We will search for a new DC and he can choose to keep or ditch any of them. Its a good move because it would be tough to bring in an entirely new defensive staff and good assistants are not easy to come by.

I wanted 9-7 for Christmas but this is a pretty sweet little consolation.

Second Honeymoon
12-30-2008, 02:45 PM
Let's all hope its not Bush as DC. But at least Joke err Hoke didn't get promoted into the job. That was my biggest fear.

I think its gonna be a total revamp though. We will know soon. Let's just hope McNair spares no expense in getting the best DC available. If he goes the cheap route AGAIN, I will be very disappointed.

Errant Hothy
12-30-2008, 02:47 PM
I just hope if Bush does get it everyone doesn't assume he was given the job. Never mind--totally unrealistic hope.



Bush--to compete for the job.
Holland--development of the LBs has been good with a 7th rounder and rookie playing well.
Rhodes--well respected mind. This year he worked the safeties and got Barber going as well as getting production from Wilson/Ferguson.

I don't see the reason to limit the coaching search to only guys with previous DC experience. Safer doesn't mean better.

But if Holland's teaching of the LBs secured his job, why didn't the development of Mario, and Bulman, and D. Robinson secure Franklin's job?

Just bouncing stuff off the walls.

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 02:47 PM
I think its gonna be a total revamp though. We will know soon. Let's just hope McNair spares no expense in getting the best DC available. If he goes the cheap route AGAIN, I will be very disappointed.

So tell us now, who are the only acceptable non-cheap options for the team who are available?

MannyFresh
12-30-2008, 02:48 PM
Why in the world would Steve Spagnuolo go from DC of the NYG to DC of the Texans? Money? No chance. Spags will be a head coach in 2009... and even if money WOULD lure him away to stay a DC (which it never would) he would command as much or more money than Kubiak makes. Not going to happen. It has nothing to do with the Texans being cheap.

I'm also guessing Bush is plan B if they don't get the guy the want. I think if he was going to be the new DC, they would have announced it at the same time as Smith's firing.

We'll know more in 30 minutes. :D
I would say because teams who fired their coaches have no upside whatever and would take years to rebuild. The Texans have great upside with just a few minor pieces to have an elite D and Spagnuolo would solidify that even further and be even more attractive to whatever free agents out there looking for a team with great potential. If they have a mediocre season again, guess what, Spagnuolo has his head coaching gig, if they have an awesome season, then its a win/win situation for the Texans and Spagnuolo. Besides, last I checked every coach has a price.

Jackie Chiles
12-30-2008, 02:48 PM
I found it disconcerting Kubiak's response to the experience question....

Something to the effect of we will be talking to people with DC experience and some without and that it wasn't the key issue.

Bleh.

He needs an experienced DC. He just does.

It would be a mistake to immediately limit your options to experienced coordinators I believe. A guy like Sean McDermott out of Philly could be the next Spagnuolo. On the other hand there will be a lot of talented former DCs available so if we decide to go with an unproven option the competition will be extremely stiff and he will have to really stand out in interviews etc. Either way we are going to see some serious changes on D next year and I am so pumped about it.:d:

Ryan
12-30-2008, 02:51 PM
I don't believe anyone who has been part of this defenses failures over the last several years should be leading the defense next year.

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 02:51 PM
I would say because teams who fired their coaches have no upside whatever and would take years to rebuild. The Texans have great upside with just a few minor pieces to have an elite D and Spagnuolo would solidify that even further and be even more attractive to whatever free agents out there looking for a team with great potential. If they have a mediocre season again, guess what, Spagnuolo has his head coaching gig, if they have an awesome season, then its a win/win situation for the Texans and Spagnuolo. Besides, last I checked every coach has a price.

Yes - but he'd make more than the head coach. That's never going to happen. I mean, I like Kubes and I want him to stay as coach - but at this point he certainly doesn't deserve a raise or an extension. You can't have a DC making more money than the HC!

There's a better chance of Haynesworth and Asomugha starting for the Texans next year - and the chances of that are already less than zero.

Second Honeymoon
12-30-2008, 02:52 PM
So tell us now, who are the only acceptable non-cheap options for the team who are available?

I don't know Icak. Just someone who isn't one of Kubiak's Denver cronies would be a start. Denver isn't exactly a hotbed of defensive coaching. Gregg Williams, Mangini, Romeo, or maybe a longshot in Wade Phillips (if/when fired). Those guys have shown they can do it and were so adept at being a DC they got hired as Head Coaches (unlike RS who had shown nothing and was probably the 5th name on their initial list in 06). Give me someone who has a track record and has had success. Not asking for much.

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 02:54 PM
I don't know Icak. Just someone who isn't one of Kubiak's Denver cronies would be a start. Denver isn't exactly a hotbed of defensive coaching. Gregg Williams, Mangini, Romeo, or maybe a longshot in Wade Phillips (if/when fired). Those guys have shown they can do it (unlike RS who had shown nothing and was probably the 5th name on their initial list in 06). Just give me someone who has a track record and has had success.
Ugh! It's like nobody is paying attention. Mangini is a 3-4 guy. Phillips is a 3-4 guy. Crennel is a 3-4 guy. We do not have the personnel for a 3-4 defense! It would mean starting from scratch, and we can't do that. Next year is too important.

Greg Williams and Rod Marinelli are the only two REALISTIC candidates I've heard so far that do anything for me.

Sorry for snapping... I'm just tired of seeing all these 3-4 guys. There's NO WAY IN HELL they hire a 3-4 guy.

Brando
12-30-2008, 02:58 PM
That pink soap is powerful.

Yes it is! ;) I'm happy......



:kingkong:

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 02:58 PM
Greg Williams and Rod Marinelli are the only two REALISTIC candidates I've heard so far that do anything for me.

And Marinelli has never called a D.

HoustonFrog
12-30-2008, 02:59 PM
The whole presser was strange to me. Kubes had to talk about how good of coaches/guys the guys were but answer to what caused them to lose their job. Awkward. Basically they should just allow his to step up, say the job wasn't getting done and walk off.

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 03:00 PM
And Marinelli has never called a D.

Yeah, but I count him as experienced after that hellacious experience he just came out of. :(

I have to bring this up, unfortunately:

Who was the DC for the Broncos the years they won the back-to-back Super Bowls, and is he currently employed?

MannyFresh
12-30-2008, 03:01 PM
Ugh! It's like nobody is paying attention. Mangini is a 3-4 guy. Phillips is a 3-4 guy. Crennel is a 3-4 guy. We do not have the personnel for a 3-4 defense! It would mean starting from scratch, and we can't do that. Next year is too important.

Greg Williams and Rod Marinelli are the only two REALISTIC candidates I've heard so far that do anything for me.

Sorry for snapping... I'm just tired of seeing all these 3-4 guys. There's NO WAY IN HELL they hire a 3-4 guy.

I'd go with Williams if I have to, but would the guys really respect someone (Marinelli) who got fired after leading a team to a perfect winless record? Its Greg Williams who's the better fit of the more competent available DCs.

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 03:02 PM
Here's a not-so-bold prediction:

The 2009 Houston Texans defensive coordinator will be:

A guy none of us have mentioned yet.

SheTexan
12-30-2008, 03:04 PM
I found it disconcerting Kubiak's response to the experience question....

Something to the effect of we will be talking to people with DC experience and some without and that it wasn't the key issue.

Bleh.

He needs an experienced DC. He just does.

Yep, I was thinking the same thing. I think he already knows it's gonna be Bush, just that feeling I have in the old gut, and not a very good feeling to tell the truth. Kubes seems to like giving guys a chance. As I've said MANY times on this board, I am SICK of the Texans being used as a training ground for wanna be coaches. Put some money and experience into the pick and lets get on with building a competitive team. Sorry, but, I'm just not in the mood to give someone else 3 yrs to learn the job.

brakos82
12-30-2008, 03:05 PM
Yeah, but I count him as experienced after that hellacious experience he just came out of. :(

I have to bring this up, unfortunately:

Who was the DC for the Broncos the years they won the back-to-back Super Bowls, and is he currently employed?

Greg Robinson (born October 9, 1951 in Los Angeles, California) is an American football coach. He was most recently the head coach of the Syracuse University Orange football team from 2005 until 2008. Robinson also served as the co-defensive coordinator at the University of Texas during the 2004 season. Prior to his role at Texas, he was defensive coordinator for three teams in the National Football League: the Kansas City Chiefs under Dick Vermeil, the Denver Broncos under Mike Shanahan, where his team won two Super Bowl championships in 1997 and 1998, and the New York Jets under Pete Carroll.

From Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Robinson)

DiehardChris
12-30-2008, 03:07 PM
Greg Robinson (born October 9, 1951 in Los Angeles, California) is an American football coach. He was most recently the head coach of the Syracuse University Orange football team from 2005 until 2008. Robinson also served as the co-defensive coordinator at the University of Texas during the 2004 season. Prior to his role at Texas, he was defensive coordinator for three teams in the National Football League: the Kansas City Chiefs under Dick Vermeil, the Denver Broncos under Mike Shanahan, where his team won two Super Bowl championships in 1997 and 1998, and the New York Jets under Pete Carroll.

From Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Robinson)

So - he's currently not working.

Ladies and Gentlemen - the favorite for the Texans' DC job - Greg Robinson.

Thanks for the info, Brak.

nunusguy
12-30-2008, 03:08 PM
I'm starting to wonder what Bush, Holland and Rhodes did that covinced Smith and Kubiak that they should keep their jobs.

Any thoughts?

Easy, obvious answer: Kubiak already had his scapegoat(s).

IlliniJen
12-30-2008, 03:08 PM
Yep, I was thinking the same thing. I think he already knows it's gonna be Bush, just that feeling I have in the old gut, and not a very good feeling to tell the truth. Kubes seems to like giving guys a chance. As I've said MANY times on this board, I am SICK of the Texans being used as a training ground for wanna be coaches. Put some money and experience into the pick and lets get on with building a competitive team. Sorry, but, I'm just not in the mood to give someone else 3 yrs to learn the job.

Yeesh, I'm with you there on this SheTexan. Kubes has to know that his job rides on next year and I don't see how he can gamble on a guy without DC experience. Maybe he figures there aren't any homeruns out there available for the job and anyone could be a gamble, but I'd rather not have another guy learning on the job when we should be contending for a playoff spot next year. The defense HAS to turn it around and what did Bush really learn under Smith that he could extract and turn into defensive gold?

MannyFresh
12-30-2008, 03:12 PM
Yeesh, I'm with you there on this SheTexan. Kubes has to know that his job rides on next year and I don't see how he can gamble on a guy without DC experience. Maybe he figures there aren't any homeruns out there available for the job and anyone could be a gamble, but I'd rather not have another guy learning on the job when we should be contending for a playoff spot next year. The defense HAS to turn it around and what did Bush really learn under Smith that he could extract and turn into defensive gold?

So the question is....would Kubes mind a DC making more money than him at the cost of having a great D and winning team?

Specnatz
12-30-2008, 03:13 PM
Ugh! It's like nobody is paying attention. Mangini is a 3-4 guy. Phillips is a 3-4 guy. Crennel is a 3-4 guy. We do not have the personnel for a 3-4 defense! It would mean starting from scratch, and we can't do that. Next year is too important.

Greg Williams and Rod Marinelli are the only two REALISTIC candidates I've heard so far that do anything for me.

Sorry for snapping... I'm just tired of seeing all these 3-4 guys. There's NO WAY IN HELL they hire a 3-4 guy.

And Marinelli has never called a D.

We need a D-Line coach and that is what merinelli was in TB and would be an excellent option there. Mike Nolan ran a 4-3 and a 3-4 Defense.

PHAROAH
12-30-2008, 03:18 PM
About time.

HoustonFrog
12-30-2008, 03:21 PM
I'd love to see some of these names come in but in the bland, doing things by the book world of the Texans they will stay the course and just hire Bush and go from there. The excuse not to change to a high end coordinator will be.."he knows our personnel and they respect him." Just mark my word now and you will hear this from Kubes.

MannyFresh
12-30-2008, 03:24 PM
I'd love to see some of these names come in but in the bland, doing things by the book world of the Texans they will stay the course and just hire Bush and go from there. The excuse not to change to a high end coordinator will be.."he knows our personnel and they respect him." Just mark my word now and you will hear this from Kubes.


After seven years of that same ole quote, lets hope they see the light and NOT be predictable.

Texan_Bill
12-30-2008, 03:33 PM
I'm bookmarking this thread, because I have a feeling that when the decision is made it may shock a few folks. :kingkong:

Brando
12-30-2008, 03:35 PM
I'm bookmarking this thread, because I have a feeling that when the decision is made it may shock a few folks. :kingkong:

I hope so TB.

El Tejano
12-30-2008, 03:35 PM
Well at first I kept thinking, now they have to start over with learning a defense and we will hear the same quote that it is going to take another year because we have to get the defense to learn the system.

Then I thought about it and realized they never really learned a system to begin with and once you just tell them to get the QB, everything else falls in place, so there shouldn't be any drop off.

What is Jerry Gray doing these days?

What if 49ers go for a coach like Mangini and Singletary is free again?

SheTexan
12-30-2008, 03:37 PM
I'm bookmarking this thread, because I have a feeling that when the decision is made it may shock a few folks. :kingkong:


PLEASE let me be shocked!!!!! Cause right now my bet is on Bush being named the next DC.

Ole Miss Texan
12-30-2008, 03:38 PM
I'm also guessing Bush is plan B if they don't get the guy the want. I think if he was going to be the new DC, they would have announced it at the same time as Smith's firing.


I think they have to interview a black candidate first as to not get in trouble...

http://assets.houstontexans.com/uploads/coaches/headshots/thumbs/21.jpg


errr... nevermind. Maybe they have to interview a white candidate so they don't get in trouble. :)

What's a thread without having to be P.C.?

HoustonFrog
12-30-2008, 03:43 PM
I'm bookmarking this thread, because I have a feeling that when the decision is made it may shock a few folks. :kingkong:

Please do because I'm going to laugh when I see my quote above from Gary. Hope you are right and it is a surprise.

HoustonFrog
12-30-2008, 03:43 PM
Well at first I kept thinking, now they have to start over with learning a defense and we will hear the same quote that it is going to take another year because we have to get the defense to learn the system.

Then I thought about it and realized they never really learned a system to begin with and once you just tell them to get the QB, everything else falls in place, so there shouldn't be any drop off.

What is Jerry Gray doing these days?

What if 49ers go for a coach like Mangini and Singletary is free again?

Singletary is the 49er coach.

Runner
12-30-2008, 03:53 PM
Well at first I kept thinking, now they have to start over with learning a defense and we will hear the same quote that it is going to take another year because we have to get the defense to learn the system.


Well, I guess I should bet on Atlanta next year. Just think how good they'll be when they aren't shackled by coaching changes and new players.

or

The "it takes a year if something changes" bromide isn't all that accurate, although useful for "wait until next year" purposes.


I expect the defense to step it up next year no matter who they hire. No excuses about gelling or wrong personel for the new system should be acceptable. The Texans should bring in a coach that matches the talent available (roster, free agents, draft), or somebody messed up selecting the new coach.

Double Barrel
12-30-2008, 03:55 PM
Greg Robinson (born October 9, 1951 in Los Angeles, California) is an American football coach. He was most recently the head coach of the Syracuse University Orange football team from 2005 until 2008. Robinson also served as the co-defensive coordinator at the University of Texas during the 2004 season. Prior to his role at Texas, he was defensive coordinator for three teams in the National Football League: the Kansas City Chiefs under Dick Vermeil, the Denver Broncos under Mike Shanahan, where his team won two Super Bowl championships in 1997 and 1998, and the New York Jets under Pete Carroll.

From Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Robinson)

I think Robinson or Bush will be the pick. JMO

Señor Stan
12-30-2008, 04:00 PM
Tatum Bell has offered to come pick up Smith's stuff.

Big Lou
12-30-2008, 04:21 PM
Was Frank Bush possibly calling the plays for the defense towards the end of the season as a try out? Pure speculation on my part, but just wondering.

Brandon420tx
12-30-2008, 04:24 PM
Was Frank Bush possibly calling the plays for the defense towards the end of the season as a try out? Pure speculation on my part, but just wondering.

Meh, unless Bush gets the job and its mentioned in an interview, I doubt we'll ever know. One of the players might let it slip though. We should ask Dunta Robinson.

Hervoyel
12-30-2008, 04:36 PM
I found it disconcerting Kubiak's response to the experience question....

Something to the effect of we will be talking to people with DC experience and some without and that it wasn't the key issue.

Bleh.

He needs an experienced DC. He just does.

Yes and I'm of the opinion that he should know this by now. This is more of that learning curve thing we're all kind of "nervous" about with Kubiak. Yes he's getting better but damn, by the time he gets this all figured out it feels like we'll be dead of old age.

Go find a known quantity Gary. Please!

TexansFight
12-30-2008, 04:38 PM
About time. I would have fired him after his first year here. He should have been canned after last year.

El Tejano
12-30-2008, 04:39 PM
I did not know that about Robinson. I just always think of the crappy record he had at Syracuse.

TimeKiller
12-30-2008, 04:57 PM
If we're promoting in-house I think I'd rather have Holland than Bush. The linebackers were the lone bright spot (outside of Mario) on defense. Honestly I'm not even sure what Bush did for the D. Robinson? Well he did win 2 super bowls, can't be all bad news.

There is talent on this defense, someone will be able to bring it out.

ArlingtonTexan
12-30-2008, 05:18 PM
I found it disconcerting Kubiak's response to the experience question....

Something to the effect of we will be talking to people with DC experience and some without and that it wasn't the key issue.

Bleh.

He needs an experienced DC. He just does.

I would not want to blindly lock into a preference (playing calling experience or 4-3 defense) and then over look a guy has a better overall package..i.e. innovative mind, ability to teach, ability to motivate, etc. It is an easier sell to public if you find an experienced guy, but not always a beter choice.

b0ng
12-30-2008, 05:21 PM
I would not want to blindly lock into a preference (playing calling experience or 4-3 defense) and then over look a guy has a better overall package..i.e. innovative mind, ability to teach, ability to motivate, etc. It is an easier sell to public if you find an experienced guy, but not always a beter choice.

Quoting this because I'm down. I think whomever is the next hire for DC should at least get one year to make his case. Richard Smith's case was terrible his first year, and then just as significantly bad the next two.

Even if they hire whatever goofball is currently running the Bronco's defense, I don't care, just as long as it's not that failure that we have been seperated from.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2008, 05:28 PM
Just name Jerry Gray for the love of God, or Earl Campbell.

ChampionTexan
12-30-2008, 05:42 PM
So the question is....would Kubes mind a DC making more money than him at the cost of having a great D and winning team?

Spagnuolo is under contract as the DC for the Giants until after the 2010 season. He can leave for a HC gig, but unless the Giants release him from his contract (which they're never going to do), he can't make a lateral move no matter what the pay is.

Non-starter of an idea.

SICLICK
12-30-2008, 05:47 PM
This is almost everything i wanted to happen!!!!

sometexansfan
12-30-2008, 05:47 PM
No more Richard Smith!!! No more pink soap for me!!! :smiliedance:

SICLICK
12-30-2008, 05:49 PM
No more Richard Smith!!! No more pink soap for me!!! :smiliedance:

:specnatz:

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 05:52 PM
Spagnuolo is under contract as the DC for the Giants until after the 2010 season. He can leave for a HC gig, but unless the Giants release him from his contract (which they're never going to do), he can't make a lateral move no matter what the pay is.

Non-starter of an idea.

The league has been letting people get around that for years by just awarding them a title like Sherman had--assistant head coach.

ChampionTexan
12-30-2008, 05:58 PM
The league has been letting people get around that for years by just awarding them a title like Sherman had--assistant head coach.

I thought they cracked down on that a few years ago. I can't remember a situation where an established coordinator who was under contract made a move to become Asst. Head Coach somewhere - can you?

Second Honeymoon
12-30-2008, 06:03 PM
Ugh! It's like nobody is paying attention. Mangini is a 3-4 guy. Phillips is a 3-4 guy. Crennel is a 3-4 guy. We do not have the personnel for a 3-4 defense! It would mean starting from scratch, and we can't do that. Next year is too important.

Greg Williams and Rod Marinelli are the only two REALISTIC candidates I've heard so far that do anything for me.

Sorry for snapping... I'm just tired of seeing all these 3-4 guys. There's NO WAY IN HELL they hire a 3-4 guy.

you don't think those guys can run a 4-3 defense? they all have run it during their careers and I believe Mangini ran a hybrid between 4-3 and 3-4 as recently as this year.

I understand your skepticism and your passion, I am just pointing out guys that have a history of success that could be great additions to our coaching staff.

I just don't want some unproven guy that is going to need (and get) a few years of trial and error. We need a guy to step right in and for there to be no excuses. Excuses have plagued this franchise since day one.

All bets are off this offseason if a Shanahan can be fired. Who knows what is going to happen. I wonder if the Texans search for DC is affected by Shanahan's uncertain status as he may be assembling a new staff in the next few days.

Texans_Chick
12-30-2008, 06:07 PM
I would not want to blindly lock into a preference (playing calling experience or 4-3 defense) and then over look a guy has a better overall package..i.e. innovative mind, ability to teach, ability to motivate, etc. It is an easier sell to public if you find an experienced guy, but not always a beter choice.

I would be good with a position coach who has a history of success but a lot of those guys are in the playoff hunt right now.

I think for THIS TEAM, a team who is so looking for direction, they need coaches that they can believe in and have a track record of success.

I concur that it is good to keep your options open. And as we learned with the last coaching search, you don't always get your first choices.

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 06:07 PM
I thought they cracked down on that a few years ago. I can't remember a situation where an established coordinator who was under contract made a move to become Asst. Head Coach somewhere - can you?

Can't think of any off the top of my head but I am pretty sure it has happened a couple times in the past couple off-seasons.

GP
12-30-2008, 06:11 PM
I am guessing they kept Bush as plan B in case they can't get someone better.

Bingo.

That's the smart way to play it.

GP
12-30-2008, 06:17 PM
Yes and I'm of the opinion that he should know this by now. This is more of that learning curve thing we're all kind of "nervous" about with Kubiak. Yes he's getting better but damn, by the time he gets this all figured out it feels like we'll be dead of old age.

Go find a known quantity Gary. Please!

Sometimes I wonder if Gary means what he says, or if he says goofy stuff sometimes on the spur of the moment that doesn't mean much of anything.

This would fit under the "goofy stuff sometimes on the spur of the moment that doesn't mean much of anything" umbrella.

Surely he should know, by now, that he needs a guy with a recent track record of experience AND success?

I would say Bush has about a 75% chance of being the new DC, and that's why he's retained and not fired today. If the FO interviews and finds a guy who can deliver a defense style that suits the roster and jives with Kubiak's mentality of things...then we'll see an outside guy get the gig.

But it looks like Bush is in the lead today.

SteveSlaton20
12-30-2008, 06:28 PM
About damn time!

I cant believe Mike Shanahan is fired tho.

Jackie Chiles
12-30-2008, 06:28 PM
I would say Bush has about a 75% chance of being the new DC, and that's why he's retained and not fired today. If the FO interviews and finds a guy who can deliver a defense style that suits the roster and jives with Kubiak's mentality of things...then we'll see an outside guy get the gig.

But it looks like Bush is in the lead today.

I don't see it. At best I would switch Bush to having the 25% vs 75% for the field. Kubiak made a few statements that lead me to this belief. He said he didn't see any improvement from the defense for the last three years and he implied that he wants to change the direction completely. He also talked about how he would be looking at a lot of candidates, some who have experience and some who don't but he thinks can be good DCs. He has a list and I'm pretty sure he has some early favorites.

Pretty much I think it is a good bet that Bush is a part of our defensive staff next season, but he will not be our DC.

Texans_Chick
12-30-2008, 09:03 PM
Yes and I'm of the opinion that he should know this by now. This is more of that learning curve thing we're all kind of "nervous" about with Kubiak. Yes he's getting better but damn, by the time he gets this all figured out it feels like we'll be dead of old age.

Go find a known quantity Gary. Please!

I think he was being vague because you never know who you will be able to get. He knows you don't always have the opportunity to get your first choice.

Things for the Texans in hiring a DC:

-McNair has $$$
-McNair is considered a good owner. He is very good to his coaching staff. He doesn't meddle.
-No state income tax
-Nice facilities
-Offensive minded head coach won't get in your kitchen so much
-Some core good players
-You know the offense can get good time of possession.

Things against the Texans in hiring a DC:

-Lack of tradition and publicity for the Texans
-Do you really want to take over one of the worst defenses in the league? If you fix it you are a hero, but can you fix it?
-May have more quality 3-4 guys available
-Denver connection people. Head coaches like guys they have a relationship with. Many of the ex-Denver defensive guys are bleh.

Wolf
12-30-2008, 09:12 PM
I am hoping for the Texans to go for an known commodity when it comes to a DC.. We are basically in a "now" phase of this team to get to the playoffs. I would rather have someone that knows how to run this thing and get this defense top notch. Then if the time comes where our DC has to move on to a HC gig .. Then Bush or Holland or whoever is on the staff will gain some more knowledge and then if they have to step in, they can and hopefully we as fans can feel comfortable with that. Right now I don't feel Comfortable with the "experience" that Bush has.. He might have book smarts, but would he have "game day" smarts..


time will tell

and by the way, I changed my avatar to the "thumbs up smiley" ad few days ago to give Kubiak the green light to do the firing :smiliedance: :tease:

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 09:30 PM
-Denver connection people. Head coaches like guys they have a relationship with. Many of the ex-Denver defensive guys are bleh.

The results certainly have been bleh, but I wonder if there is a groceries argument. Look at how there defense has been built recently--cast offs, busts and 2nd day picks with a couple exceptions in Bailey and DJ Williams.

Shanahan was the grocery shopper. Interesting rumor is Denver told Shanahan to get rid of their DC and he refused so they canned the lot.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2008, 09:32 PM
The results certainly have been bleh, but I wonder if there is a groceries argument. Look at how there defense has been built recently--cast offs, busts and 2nd day picks with a couple exceptions in Bailey and DJ Williams.

Shanahan was the grocery shopper. Interesting rumor is Denver told Shanahan to get rid of their DC and he refused so they canned the lot.

Smith = Slowik

Lucky
12-30-2008, 09:34 PM
Congrats to Gary Kubiak for opening the 2nd envelope.



Things against the Texans in hiring a DC:
How about coming on board with a head coach working on the 4th year of a 5 year contract. Not exactly job security. And having to take on assistants he may not know or may not be familiar with his coaching style or schemes.

Of course, Kubiak on the hot seat might be intriguing for a DC looking to vulture a head coaching job. Which is why Kubiak might want to stay away from a big name or young hot shot.

IlliniJen
12-30-2008, 09:43 PM
Congrats to Gary Kubiak for opening the 2nd envelope.


How about coming on board with a head coach working on the 4th year of a 5 year contract. Not exactly job security. And having to take on assistants he may not know or may not be familiar with his coaching style or schemes.

Of course, Kubiak on the hot seat might be intriguing for a DC looking to vulture a head coaching job. Which is why Kubiak might want to stay away from a big name or young hot shot.

Kubiak being on the hot seat next year actually fueled my fear that they would hold onto Smith and fire the lot of them if they didn't improve next year. Silly reasoning, I know, considering the Texans have to improve the defense in order for us to really win, but that was my train of thought regardless.

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 09:47 PM
Smith = Slowik

You mean without the 8 years of experience as a DC?

This is starting to get very Goldilocks:

I want someone with prior DC experience.
I want someone with no connection to Denver.
Has to be a 4-3 guy.
Has to come from a last job where the D was really good.

Not sure the porridge is ever going to be just right.

I'm not advocating Slowik, but this is why I am saying keep an open mind (on everything except the 4-3 guy) and consider folks like the DB & LB coach from Philly.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2008, 09:52 PM
You mean without the 8 years of experience as a DC?

This is starting to get very Goldilocks:

I want someone with prior DC experience.
I want someone with no connection to Denver.
Has to a 4-3 guy.
Has to come from a last job where the D was really good.

Not sure the porridge is ever going to be just right.

I was referring to the hard head, stubborn, point of procedure applying coach because he earned it (Shanahan) and young turk, whose king maker is without a job that was told (implied) to get rid of his DC, within the context that their respective DCs left them exposed during the season and this off season.

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 09:59 PM
I was referring to the hard head, stubborn, point of procedure applying coach because he earned it (Shanahan) and young turk, whose king maker is without a job that was told (implied) to get rid of his DC, within the context that their respective DCs left them exposed during the season and this off season.

OK--that went totally over my head the first time--I was being very literal.

OzzO
12-30-2008, 10:12 PM
...Things for the Texans in hiring a DC:

-McNair has $$$
-McNair is considered a good owner. He is very good to his coaching staff. He doesn't meddle.
-No state income tax
-Nice facilities
-Offensive minded head coach won't get in your kitchen so much
-Some core good players
-You know the offense can get good time of possession....

... and most likely, this draft and FA's will be focused more on the defensive side. (again)

ArlingtonTexan
12-30-2008, 10:13 PM
Congrats to Gary Kubiak for opening the 2nd envelope.


How about coming on board with a head coach working on the 4th year of a 5 year contract. Not exactly job security. And having to take on assistants he may not know or may not be familiar with his coaching style or schemes.

Of course, Kubiak on the hot seat might be intriguing for a DC looking to vulture a head coaching job. Which is why Kubiak might want to stay away from a big name or young hot shot.

If Kubiak hires a DC out of fear then he deserves whatever he gets. Hire the guy you think will be the best for the job (veteran, hot-shot, no name) and you are most likely going to save it than if you try to avoid certain types.

Maddict5
12-30-2008, 10:24 PM
Congrats to Gary Kubiak for opening the 2nd envelope.


How about coming on board with a head coach working on the 4th year of a 5 year contract. Not exactly job security. And having to take on assistants he may not know or may not be familiar with his coaching style or schemes.

Of course, Kubiak on the hot seat might be intriguing for a DC looking to vulture a head coaching job. Which is why Kubiak might want to stay away from a big name or young hot shot.


...24 hrs ago, gary pubicly stated he let his young, hot shot OC call the best offensive red zone game of the yr. you really think kubiak is that kind of insecure HC that worries about people showing him up after that?

Specnatz
12-30-2008, 10:30 PM
I was referring to the hard head, stubborn, point of procedure applying coach because he earned it (Shanahan) and young turk, whose king maker is without a job that was told (implied) to get rid of his DC, within the context that their respective DCs left them exposed during the season and this off season.

Of course injuries had nothing to do with the poor season, this year.

axman40
12-30-2008, 10:54 PM
Mr. Smith sparò ,Mr Hoke огонь , Mr. Franklin disparado !
Obrigado !Merci ! Danke !
:texflag:

Lucky
12-30-2008, 11:30 PM
...you really think kubiak is that kind of insecure HC that worries about people showing him up after that?
"There's two kinds of coaches, them that's fired and them that's gonna be fired." - O.A. "Bum" Phillips

Don't think for a second that Kubiak isn't aware of that. He just saw his Super Bowl winning mentor canned. He realizes that 2009 is a make or break year. Kubiak will hire a DC he knows and trusts. Kubiak said after the road loss at Indy that he had the right people. Maybe he believes he has the right people, but they have the wrong job description.

drewmar74
12-31-2008, 12:13 AM
"There's two kinds of coaches, them that's fired and them that's gonna be fired." - O.A. "Bum" Phillips

Don't think for a second that Kubiak isn't aware of that. He just saw his Super Bowl winning mentor canned. He realizes that 2009 is a make or break year. Kubiak will hire a DC he knows and trusts. Kubiak said after the road loss at Indy that he had the right people. Maybe he believes he has the right people, but they have the wrong job description.

Interesting theory.

Heard the news around 7 pm this evening. Did a dance around the living room. Shook my money maker and even got a dollar shoved in my drawers!

TEXANRED
12-31-2008, 12:18 AM
Did a dance around the living room. Shook my money maker and even got a dollar shoved in my drawers!

um.....cough......:backsout:

Specnatz
12-31-2008, 12:26 AM
"There's two kinds of coaches, them that's fired and them that's gonna be fired." - O.A. "Bum" Phillips

Don't think for a second that Kubiak isn't aware of that. He just saw his Super Bowl winning mentor canned. He realizes that 2009 is a make or break year. Kubiak will hire a DC he knows and trusts. Kubiak said after the road loss at Indy that he had the right people. Maybe he believes he has the right people, but they have the wrong job description.

Just a thought, but maybe he was just telling Mr two chin what he wanted to hear.

Lucky
12-31-2008, 12:34 AM
Just a thought, but maybe he was just telling Mr two chin what he wanted to hear.
Why would McClain want to hear that?

Mr. two chin? Has Da General dropped some weight (and chins)?

Specnatz
12-31-2008, 12:49 AM
Why would McClain want to hear that?

Mr. two chin? Has Da General dropped some weight (and chins)?

He seems like he is an apologist for Smith but also Kubiak is like Belichick in that he never discloses anything.

I got a name to throw out that no one has mentioned ... Greg Robinson as DC, since he was Denver's DC when they won Super Bowls.

ArlingtonTexan
12-31-2008, 12:56 AM
He seems like he is an apologist for Smith but also Kubiak is like Belichick in that he never discloses anything.

I got a name to throw out that no one has mentioned ... Greg Robinson as DC, since he was Denver's DC when they won Super Bowls.

Maybe not in this thread, but he has been mentioned in others. Honestly, i would be more interested in what Frank Bush could do over either of the Gregs, Williams or Robinson.

Still, more interested in something that's not any of those guys.

Goldensilence
12-31-2008, 12:58 AM
You mean without the 8 years of experience as a DC?

This is starting to get very Goldilocks:

I want someone with prior DC experience.
I want someone with no connection to Denver.
Has to be a 4-3 guy.
Has to come from a last job where the D was really good.

Not sure the porridge is ever going to be just right.

I'm not advocating Slowik, but this is why I am saying keep an open mind (on everything except the 4-3 guy) and consider folks like the DB & LB coach from Philly.

Ron Rivera. Perfect fit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Rivera

ChampionTexan
12-31-2008, 01:14 AM
He seems like he is an apologist for Smith but also Kubiak is like Belichick in that he never discloses anything.

I got a name to throw out that no one has mentioned ... Greg Robinson as DC, since he was Denver's DC when they won Super Bowls.

I don't think Greg Robinson can do it, but as you will see, he disagrees.

Greg Robinson recites children's stories. (http://videos.syracuse.com/post-standard/2008/12/excerpt_from_coach_greg_robins.html)

Texans_Chick
12-31-2008, 01:24 AM
Ron Rivera. Perfect fit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Rivera

It would be a lateral move because he was promoted to DC with the Chargers. And he is under a two year contract with them. If the Texans wanted him, they should have moved LAST year.

DiehardChris
12-31-2008, 01:54 AM
It would be a lateral move because he was promoted to DC with the Chargers. And he is under a two year contract with them. If the Texans wanted him, they should have moved LAST year.

But - this time last year, none of us wanted to get rid of Richard Smi--

Oh wait, yes we did. :|

TexansLucky13
12-31-2008, 02:02 AM
yay

Malloy
12-31-2008, 06:19 AM
Interesting theory.

Heard the news around 7 pm this evening. Did a dance around the living room. Shook my money maker and even got a dollar shoved in my drawers!

As long as no-one put a coin in the slot I would say that you're good :)

BattleRedToro
12-31-2008, 08:02 AM
The next Defensive Coordinator needs to have the respect from Smith and Kubiak with regards to defensive personnel decisions. He needs to be someone with a clear vision of his defensive philosophy and he must be able to articulate this as well. Finally, he needs to be someone whose defensive philosophy meshes with the existing personnel that is here plus a few additions through free agency and the draft to fill in the holes, if not time will be wasted changing systems due to the need for a complete changeover. In otherwords, changing to some form of a 3-4 defense should be out of the question.

Personally, I would like somebody that has learned under Monte Kiffin or Jim Johnson.

Hervoyel
12-31-2008, 08:43 AM
Working with the personnel already in place is a good point and I see the sense in not trying to completely flip the defense into a 3-4 "rebuild".

BUT, having said that.....

Every time a change is made at any level in the NFL the person brought in "wants his own people" to some extent. A new head coach wants new assistants and starts replacing his players. A new assistant coach wants his assistants (if any) to be "his guys" and will want some input in bringing in new players. We always see this and it's going to happen with our defense too.

What works about this is that we were going to see it anyway I think. The draft, as if there was any question or doubt is probably going to be all about the defense. Any kind of free agent signing we might have of any note will be a on defense. I have no doubt that Kubiak feels bad about letting these men go. They wouldn't be here if they weren't friends of his to some degree and his statement about having failed Richard Smith by not giving him the players and resources to be successful is very telling. It wasn't just coach speak I think. He'll give the next guy a lot more help partly because he feels it's needed and partly because well, he can. The offense is mostly finished at this point.

infantrycak
12-31-2008, 09:03 AM
The offense is mostly finished at this point.

Absent an injury (knocks on wood, rub the rabbits foot (never helped the rabbit) and kick a black cat (that one is just for enjoyment)) I don't see a single starter changing on the O next season unless some undeniable BPA person falls in their lap like Demeco did. Backups like a RB, sure.

TigerV1
12-31-2008, 09:45 AM
Absent an injury (knocks on wood, rub the rabbits foot (never helped the rabbit) and kick a black cat (that one is just for enjoyment)) I don't see a single starter changing on the O next season unless some undeniable BPA person falls in their lap like Demeco did. Backups like a RB, sure.

Is it just me or is it strange to even say that? Not that its a bad thing, but I never thought we'd see the day where we could say the offense is set.

FirstTexansFan
12-31-2008, 09:50 AM
Sorry, but I don't think this offense is set by any measure. Two glaring issues to me is our center and right guard.

bigbrewster2000
12-31-2008, 10:03 AM
Sorry, but I don't think this offense is set by any measure. Two glaring issues to me is our center and right guard.

Our RG is probably the most consistent Lineman we have. That is according to OD and Joel Dreissen yesterday on 1560. Not to mention thatalmost all of Slaton's big gains came right behind Briesel. And the coaches love the guy. I think Meyers can get the job done. Having continuity on the line is huge. Especially in the ZBS scheme. I think that was pretty apparent as the season went along and the linemen all got comfortable with each other.

infantrycak
12-31-2008, 10:16 AM
Sorry, but I don't think this offense is set by any measure. Two glaring issues to me is our center and right guard.

Not saying everything is ideal on O, only I don't expect any changes.

DexmanC
12-31-2008, 10:16 AM
Our RG is probably the most consistent Lineman we have. That is according to OD and Joel Dreissen yesterday on 1560. Not to mention thatalmost all of Slaton's big gains came right behind Briesel. And the coaches love the guy. I think Meyers can get the job done. Having continuity on the line is huge. Especially in the ZBS scheme. I think that was pretty apparent as the season went along and the linemen all got comfortable with each other.

We haven't seen Myers bodyslammed into the RB since the Pittsburgh game.
In the ZBS, the center is the "quarterback" of he O-line. Myers is also
VERY young by O-line standards. I see this unit improving TOGETHER
with time. We don't need 5 ALL-PRO linemen, just a good UNIT. They
will get accolades when they gain consistency. Leave the line alone,
and the Texans offense will be a MONSTER.

Ole Miss Texan
12-31-2008, 10:33 AM
Our RG is probably the most consistent Lineman we have. That is according to OD and Joel Dreissen yesterday on 1560. Not to mention thatalmost all of Slaton's big gains came right behind Briesel. And the coaches love the guy. I think Meyers can get the job done. Having continuity on the line is huge. Especially in the ZBS scheme. I think that was pretty apparent as the season went along and the linemen all got comfortable with each other.

Consistency can often times be a very misinterpreted term. Jacoby Jones is our most consistent punt returner- he consistently fumbles the return.

But that really is good to hear from OD, JD and that the coaches really like him. I do think as this line plays together more they will improve.

Hervoyel
12-31-2008, 10:59 AM
Sorry, but I don't think this offense is set by any measure. Two glaring issues to me is our center and right guard.

I just don't think we need to tinker with this combination for at least another year. We need to let these guys play together for more than one season to see how good they can get as a group. If we keep swapping parts out every year then we'll never know and always be complaining about problems on the line. I'm fairly certain that we've never started two seasons with the same players starting all 5 positions on the line.

As much as everyone hates to hear people say "give them time to gel" that doesn't change the fact that it's still necessary. We finished the season on offense 3rd in total offense, 4th in passing offense, and 13th in rushing offense. We gave up 32 sacks.

Now, 20 of those sacks came in the first half of the season (games 1-8) and 12 of them came in the second half of the season. Pass protection got better. It got better because the running game became real as opposed to theory.

In the first 8 weeks of the season we averaged 111.3 yards on the ground per game. In the last 8 weeks we averaged 119.4 on the ground. In numbers that's a small little 10 yard blip but when taken in context it's significant. Early in the year our running game was here one week and gone the next. We bounced around from 75 yards against the Steelers to 146 against the Titans and then back to 79 yards against the Jaguars before busting out for 156 against the Colts. We were all over the place and we were splitting carries a lot between Ahman Green and Steve Slaton. One guy was too old and the other was a rookie. As Slaton seemed to find his legs at this level Green finally went down to the inevitable injury. That put us in a weird spot around the middle of the season. We basically piled it all on his shoulders and he responded. He did a lot of that early stuff on his own. To top things off we were throwing the ball way too much early on because we couldn't seem to rely on the running game. During the time Sage came in and started from halftime at Minnesota to Monday Night Football against Jacksonville Slaton got going and from that point on our sacks started dropping and our turnovers started to go away. We were still too generous but at least things were getting back under control.

We have to see if they can continue to improve and even if they can't this is still good enough to leave alone while we work on our defense for a year or so. If we had been able to keep two of our first four opponents under 30 points we would be 10-6 right now. If we'd been able to keep Indianapolis under 30 points the second time we'd met them then we'd be 11-5, in the playoffs with a 5-1 record in the AFC South and that's with the offense as-is.

Kaiser Toro
12-31-2008, 11:07 AM
Expectations are to be a playoff team next year. Within those expectations we need to address three things - Red Zone offense, cut back turnovers and a DC. In my opinion, we have to address the interior line in this draft or FA as it simply cannot be counted on to own the LOS in the red zone.

ChampionTexan
12-31-2008, 11:22 AM
Expectations are to be a playoff team next year. Within those expectations we need to address three things - Red Zone offense, cut back turnovers and a DC. In my opinion, we have to address the interior line in this draft or FA as it simply cannot be counted on to own the LOS in the red zone.

I agree with the comments on continuity of the line, and believe we should re-sign Brisiel and stay with the current five. More importantly, Kubiak has stated that he'd like to see this line stay together next season, and he's been pretty much a straight shooter on stuff like that (he either gives the truth, or he gives nothing, but he doesn't give you lies), so I think it's a reasonably safe bet that we will stay with the current line.

Marcus
12-31-2008, 12:12 PM
Expectations are to be a playoff team next year.

What if we go 11-5 and still miss the playoffs, like the Patriots did this year?
Still, a failure?

Hervoyel
12-31-2008, 12:16 PM
What if we go 11-5 and still miss the playoffs, like the Patriots did this year?
Still, a failure?

No. If that happens then we're winning and the conference just shook out like that. Not much we can do about it but come back the next season and try to win 12 or 13.

HoustonFrog
12-31-2008, 12:26 PM
Expectations are to be a playoff team next year. Within those expectations we need to address three things - Red Zone offense, cut back turnovers and a DC. In my opinion, we have to address the interior line in this draft or FA as it simply cannot be counted on to own the LOS in the red zone.

As long as defense is the question and the draft is a subject...I'd add MLB to a massive need in FA or the draft. I just think DeMeco is going to wear down at some point. Maybe some D-linemen clogging the middle will help. Right now he takes punishment though.

RipTraxx
12-31-2008, 12:30 PM
Sorry been away from the comp.

So we have the candidates...who do yall like?

Goldensilence
12-31-2008, 12:45 PM
Expectations are to be a playoff team next year. Within those expectations we need to address three things - Red Zone offense, cut back turnovers and a DC. In my opinion, we have to address the interior line in this draft or FA as it simply cannot be counted on to own the LOS in the red zone.

Pretty much my thoughts on the OL. Looks good in between the 20's but has a real difficult time in both the RZ and in short conversions where we need to dominate or at least hold the LOS. I'm not sure this unit is capable of that. Maybe it can be helped with a bigger back or running more stretch plays where we can cater more to the speed of our OL.

Kaiser Toro
12-31-2008, 12:52 PM
What if we go 11-5 and still miss the playoffs, like the Patriots did this year?
Still, a failure?

I'll take 11-5 every season with or without the playoffs.

Specnatz
12-31-2008, 12:57 PM
Sorry, but I don't think this offense is set by any measure. Two glaring issues to me is our center and right guard.

Not saying everything is ideal on O, only I don't expect any changes.

Yes we need upgrades at certain positions on offense, including running back (Not starting running back, calm down). With that said it sure has hell is not a glaring weakness like the Defense is.

Safety
OLB
DE
DT (run stuffer)

Thorn
12-31-2008, 01:15 PM
Just a thought on all this, but if we had a good DC would the current crop of players do better? Other than AJ and Slaton, (maybe Schaub, Walter) do we really have any super stars on our offense? Maybe it's because of the coaching they did so well this year. I think it's reasonable to think the same could happen with the defense.

Brando
12-31-2008, 01:20 PM
This is from some poster at TC's blog at the Chronicle and all I have to say about the following is :mcnugget:.

Larry Johnson wants out of KC lets get a package together and trade mario and company to KC and maybe Mario and a draft pick for Larry Johnson. Come on Texans make a move like you really want to win and win now. The Jets, Browms, and Detroit are serious about their football teams and they are not just something to brag about or to just have as another symbol that our city is a happening place. They want a good coach and team because they love football. One day Houston will get with the program. I can't beleieve they didn't make a clean sweep and get serious about finding a good experienced caoch that can take this team and move them to the next 2 levels, like Atlanta and Miami. It's almost like we still don't have a professional team here. Well at least we get to watch other good teams as they come to Houston from time to time. I guess another sub-par year will warrant a coaching change and then we will be even that further behind the competition.

:mcnugget:

chron.com TC's blog (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2008/12/a_texan_fans_plea_for_an_exper_1.html)


I edited my post, I didn't know how much I goofed, Sorry Stephanie.

Kaiser Toro
12-31-2008, 01:22 PM
is is from TC's blog at the Chronicle and all I have to say about the following is :mcnugget:.



:mcnugget:

chron.com TC's blog (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2008/12/a_texan_fans_plea_for_an_exper_1.html)

This is TC's response to the user comment that you quoted. In the event there is any confusion.

[You want to trade one of the best young defensive ends in the league and a draft pick to KC for a running back who will be 30 next year, faces legal troubles and is often injured? Is this a put on? -S]

RipTraxx
12-31-2008, 01:22 PM
is is from TC's blog at the Chronicle and all I have to say about the following is :mcnugget:.



:mcnugget:

chron.com TC's blog (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2008/12/a_texan_fans_plea_for_an_exper_1.html)

WOW! Sounds like someone started their NYE drinkin a lil early

GuerillaBlack
12-31-2008, 01:23 PM
Just a thought on all this, but if we had a good DC would the current crop of players do better? Other than AJ and Slaton, (maybe Schaub, Walter) do we really have any super stars on our offense? Maybe it's because of the coaching they did so well this year. I think it's reasonable to think the same could happen with the defense.

We have them, but since they play for the Texans, they aren't as popular.

Brando
12-31-2008, 01:27 PM
This is TC's response to the user comment that you quoted. In the event there is any confusion.

Thanks, I forgot to include that, I guess his "trade Mario and a draft pick for Larry Johnson" scenario threw me off.

ChampionTexan
12-31-2008, 01:32 PM
Just a thought on all this, but if we had a good DC would the current crop of players do better? Other than AJ and Slaton, (maybe Schaub, Walter) do we really have any super stars on our offense? Maybe it's because of the coaching they did so well this year. I think it's reasonable to think the same could happen with the defense.

Amen. I firmly believe that there's a good number of average to slightly above average NFL players who are considered to be better than they are because of the system they're in. I think there's a pretty good chance we have some players on this team who could fall into that category if given the right system. The theory also works the other way around, and I think that's where we've been to this point.

I think this is one of the big reasons "Big Name" FA signings are often disappointing. Different system - different player.

ArlingtonTexan
12-31-2008, 01:54 PM
Amen. I firmly believe that there's a good number of average to slightly above average NFL players who are considered to be better than they are because of the system they're in. I think there's a pretty good chance we have some players on this team who could fall into that category if given the right system. The theory also works the other way around, and I think that's where we've been to this point.

I think this is one of the big reasons "Big Name" FA signings are often disappointing. Different system - different player.

Outside of the top 10-15 players at a given position, the rest of the NFL is full of system players. Success is about matching systems and players. The Texans offense did not get an overload of highly regarded draft picks and high dollar free agents, but has found a way to improve greatly by right player in right situation.

SheTexan
12-31-2008, 02:28 PM
Thanks, I forgot to include that, I guess his "trade Mario and a draft pick for Larry Johnson" scenario threw me off.

Phewwwww!! I thought you had really gone loco Brando!!:headhurts:

Must have been a Cowboy fan that posted such nonsense!! Trade Mario for ANYONE and Houston fans would go balistic!!

Brando
12-31-2008, 03:23 PM
Phewwwww!! I thought you had really gone loco Brando!!:headhurts:

Must have been a Cowboy fan that posted such nonsense!! Trade Mario for ANYONE and Houston fans would go balistic!!

Gone? lol..... I edited my original post. It was either a Cowboys fan or a VY fan.

Sorry for the bad original post......

dickieb
12-31-2008, 03:24 PM
Talking about the Oline pass protection issues - does anyone know how many of those sacks were Ephraim Salam's? I know they were doing the whole switch every third series to help out Brown but I think early on Ephraim was saying how good the offense was when he was in (at least he claimed they scored everytime he was in - the first game or two). But I seem to remember him getting some big penaltys that stalled drives and at least giving up a couple of big sacks. Just curious how his stats were compared to Brown's in his limited action. I think he (Ephraim) is an okay backup but I'm not sure if he is really a Gibbs guy - I could see a draft pick or free agent pickup on the Oline (not a blockbuster but a solid player that fits the blocking scheme better).

michaelm
12-31-2008, 07:18 PM
This is from some poster at TC's blog at the Chronicle and all I have to say about the following is :mcnugget:.



:mcnugget:

chron.com TC's blog (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2008/12/a_texan_fans_plea_for_an_exper_1.html)



The guy who posted that is a classic case of someone viewing the real NFL through fantasy colored glasses...

ObsiWan
12-31-2008, 08:39 PM
Phewwwww!! I thought you had really gone loco Brando!!:headhurts:

Must have been a Cowboy fan that posted such nonsense!! Trade Mario for ANYONE and Houston fans would go balistic!!

weeeelll... if Belichick went nuts and offered up Tom Brady.....
:D

DBCooper
01-01-2009, 12:39 PM
This is a great Christmas/New Years present for the Texans.

Now get an experienced DC and make the Texans a contender.

Texan JBZ
01-08-2009, 11:52 AM
Just saw on ESPN Bottomline that Jethro Franklin is back coaching the defensive line a USC. Good for him that he's landed on his feet already.

Wolf
01-08-2009, 07:52 PM
I don't know if this was posted earlier but some comments suprised me


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6188021.html

Players anticipate future
Some were unprepared for Texans firings

“Sometimes you just need a new direction,” cornerback Dunta Robinson said. “We have to find a new direction. We need an identity. Are we going to be a man defense or a zone defense? Are we going to blitz or play safe? We need a (coordinator) who’ll make sure we know what he wants.”




“I’m not sure if it’s because of the sack numbers that (Franklin’s) gone, but I do know I’ve never been unprepared going into a game under him,” Weaver said.

that quote surprised me.. mainly because on road games the whole team looked unprepared at times

Wolf
01-12-2009, 02:14 AM
Houston has fired three coaches including defensive coordinator Richard Smith. The last time this many Texans were axed, Davy Crockett was there.


http://kankasports.blogspot.com/2009/01/national-lampoon-sports-minute-or-so_11.html
I am almost sure most of the country didn't get that one and the ones that did roll their eyes at an attempt to be funny

(at least I did)

Errant Hothy
01-13-2009, 01:02 PM
Hoke got the same job he had here in Chicago, per McClain's chat.
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/01/texans_nfl_chat_0113.html

gtexan02
01-13-2009, 01:09 PM
Hoke got the same job he had here in Chicago, per McClain's chat.
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/01/texans_nfl_chat_0113.html

Enjoy "the all powerful cushion"

Lets give them an 8 yard cushion.
Referencing a 3rd and 6 play

Double Barrel
01-14-2009, 11:05 AM
I think Robinson or Bush will be the pick. JMO

booya! :cowboy1:

Promoting from within just seems like the first option for this franchise.

Good luck, Bush! We are all counting on you!! :texflag:

bckey
01-14-2009, 11:32 AM
I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too much because most on here thought Bush was the pick. But alot of fans at least wanted Kubiak to interview other candidates before making the decision.

HOU-TEX
01-14-2009, 12:00 PM
I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too much because most on here thought Bush was the pick. But alot of fans at least wanted Kubiak to interview other candidates before making the decision.

I know there weren't any interviews, but supposedly they at least did the research. The only things we hear about are the things that leak to the media and what they want us to know.

“Well, doing my homework, studying the guys that are out there, trying to go through things with (owner) Bob (McNair) and with (general manager) Rick (Smith), all my homework kept coming right back to Frank.

“It’s kind of been going on for the last couple of weeks, since we got finished. I talked to various coaches and studied the people that are out there available and what’s going out around the league. But at the same time, you have to look out for your staff and what’s happening right here in your building. So, just kind of putting all of those things together kept leading right back to (defensive coordinator) Frank (Bush) and really a credit to (owner) Bob (McNair) for us to put it together here today.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5101

The Pencil Neck
01-14-2009, 01:23 PM
For me, this is a make or break decision for Kubiak. If Bush comes in and actually puts together at least an average defense, then Kubiak probably gets a few more years. If Bush's defense just continues in the bottom 3rd of the league and we don't at least win more games, then I think Kubes is gone.

I'm hoping for the best.

Double Barrel
01-14-2009, 03:25 PM
I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too much because most on here thought Bush was the pick. But alot of fans at least wanted Kubiak to interview other candidates before making the decision.

Well, don't take me too seriously. I was just having fun with it.

The truth is that any predictions by any of us are really just wild ass guesses.