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View Full Version : The difference with this 8-8 vs last year...


worldlyman
12-28-2008, 03:33 PM
is that the Texans finished a solid 8-4 down, developed an identity on offense.

Just a power-oriented running back and get some pieces to at least upgrade a bad defense to at least a so-so one...this is a sure playoff team next season.

So all the cynics and naysayers crowing, "just another mediocre season"...well, let's just say that I give credit to the team for playing hard after a very, very difficult 0-4 start considering circumstances here in Houston and difficult Steelers and Titans defenses that stuffed the new learn-on-the-fly offensive line scheme.

Go Texans!

mexican_texan
12-28-2008, 03:34 PM
Bottom line is, this team wins with a healthy Schaub at the helm.

Spled
12-28-2008, 03:35 PM
I really think they're set on offense other than ol depth. Draft should focus on defense.

Maddict5
12-28-2008, 03:36 PM
Bottom line is, this team wins with a healthy Schaub at the helm.

exactly we have a top qb and a top rb this yr

we didnt last yr. alot of the pieces are in place. no serious offseason rehabs. last push to fix up the D in the offseason

stingray
12-28-2008, 03:36 PM
I think the biggest variable is Schaub. He simply needs to improve by next year. He can hardly take any pressure. If he gets any pressure, he seems to panic. But I think he will have a breakout year next year.

Lucky
12-28-2008, 03:39 PM
The Texans finished with the exact same 8-8 record as in '07, despite having a healthy Andre Johnson for 16 games and finding a legitimate runner in Steve Slaton. No matter how you spin it, the Texans underachieved in 2008.

Jackie Chiles
12-28-2008, 03:40 PM
I think the biggest variable is Schaub. He simply needs to improve by next year. He can hardly take any pressure. If he gets any pressure, he seems to panic. But I think he will have a breakout year next year.

Most QBs are like that though, the O-line needs to improve its pass protection. They are young and should continue to improve and gel next year, especially Duane. Schaub's skills improved this year, hes not perfect but his numbers are better pretty much across the board, lets see if he can stay healthy next season.

IlliniJen
12-28-2008, 03:41 PM
The Texans finished with the exact same 8-8 record as in '07, despite having a healthy Andre Johnson for 16 games and finding a legitimate runner in Steve Slaton. No matter how you spin it, the Texans underachieved in 2008.

Agreed. And put me in the "I'll believe it when I see it" corner when it comes to doing anything better than 8-8 next season, despite what should be a pretty easy schedule.

I'll await improvement on the defense and playcalling before I'll buy into any "turning the corner" talk that I was far too quick to buy into a couple weeks ago.

Texanballer
12-28-2008, 03:41 PM
If we played under control against the colts at home we are 9-7. If we go into the Raiders came calm and serious i think we are 10-6.

No biggy though. This is something to build on for next season.

ChampionTexan
12-28-2008, 03:43 PM
I think the biggest variable is Schaub. He simply needs to improve by next year. He can hardly take any pressure. If he gets any pressure, he seems to panic. But I think he will have a breakout year next year.

In his last 7 starts, Schaub was 5-2, threw only 3 picks, and had 10 TD passes. We can live with #'s like that from our QB.

stingray
12-28-2008, 03:44 PM
Most QBs are like that though, the O-line needs to improve its pass protection. They are young and should continue to improve and gel next year, especially Duane. Schaub's skills improved this year, hes not perfect but his numbers are better pretty much across the board, lets see if he can stay healthy next season.

I understand that all Qb's perform better when they are given time. I just get a bad feeling when Schaub is in the pocket and he gets any kind of pressure. He makes more mistakes than he should. And that is what separates the great Qb's with the good Qb's, what they do under slight pressure.

stingray
12-28-2008, 03:46 PM
In his last 7 starts, Schaub was 5-2, threw only 3 picks, and had 10 TD passes. We can live with #'s like that from our QB.

So what did he do the before that? Threw alot of Int's and got hurt. I'm not saying that Matt is a terrible QB. He is pretty good. He just needs to take the next step to be mentioned with the Eilte.

ChampionTexan
12-28-2008, 03:47 PM
So what did he do the first half? Threw alot of Int's and got hurt. I'm not saying that Matt is a terrible QB. He is pretty good. He just needs to take the next step to be mentioned with the Eilte.

Since when does "We can live with #'s like that" translate to I think he's elite?

IlliniJen
12-28-2008, 03:48 PM
So what did he do the before that? Threw alot of Int's and got hurt. I'm not saying that Matt is a terrible QB. He is pretty good. He just needs to take the next step to be mentioned with the Eilte.

You make it sound like getting his knee bashed in by dirty defensive Jared Allen play is Schaub's fault.

Schaub is improving, and that's a good sign. He doesn't do horribly under pressure, but he does need to improve what he does with the ball when under pressure. Too many grounding penalties this year.

PapaL
12-28-2008, 03:49 PM
I think this is going to be our most interesting offseason to date. Will DRob come back and for how much? Where do we go with this draft? Will FA take us serious. Who will be our new DC?

Exciting offseason to come.

stingray
12-28-2008, 03:54 PM
You make it sound like getting his knee bashed in by dirty defensive Jared Allen play is Schaub's fault.

Schaub is improving, and that's a good sign. He doesn't do horribly under pressure, but he does need to improve what he does with the ball when under pressure. Too many grounding penalties this year.

I never mentioned Jarred Allen's name in any post. Bottom line, Schaub hasn't played all sixteen games here in two years. Not even close. It's like an employee who misses work for a variety of reason. Sick kids, death in the family, ETC, ETC... Yes, they are all legit, and it's a better reason than the guy who misses work because he is always hungover, but htey still miss work. Bottom line, you need someone who shows up to work.

Goldensilence
12-28-2008, 03:58 PM
I really think they're set on offense other than ol depth. Draft should focus on defense.

Disagreed either Brisiel or Myers needs to be replaced IMO. We can live with one or the other starting but both compromise the OL. Brisiel didn't make a great case for himself today especially on the holding play that cost us a TD. Schaub IMO has looked better as he's gotten more reps as the starter and doesn't hurt when you have a healthy AJ. If we can get someone to spell Slaton this team offensively is going to continue to be hard hang with.

I think this defense would look better with a new DC that can bring a real scheme. This team looked a lot better with Adibi starting because he can get sideline to sideline. We've got some good TEs in our division and team will continue to carve up our defense until we get speed on our OLBs.

Bottom line IMO got to get new OLBers and OG or C with our first two picks.

PapaL
12-28-2008, 04:00 PM
I never mentioned Jarred Allen's name in any post. Bottom line, Schaub hasn't played all sixteen games here in two years. Not even close. It's like an employee who misses work for a variety of reason. Sick kids, death in the family, ETC, ETC... Bottom line, you need someone who shows up to work.

But in the scenario you made it would be your employer that is going out and getting your kids sick and killing folks in your family.

Schaub hasn't been hurt by his own doing, i.e. Griese tripping over a dog or Plax shooting himself. He's been hurt due to the team. Injuries are part of the game. It's a matter of deciding how much they are willing to deal with. I don't think we are anywhere near our limit when it comes to Matt missing games. Think Bennine J. and Jerome Mathis.

stingray
12-28-2008, 04:02 PM
But in the scenario you made it would be your employer that is going out and getting your kids sick and killing folks in your family.

Schaub hasn't been hurt by his own doing, i.e. Griese tripping over a dog or Plax shooting himself. He's been hurt due to the team. Injuries are part of the game. It's a matter of deciding how much they are willing to deal with. I don't think we are anywhere near our limit when it comes to Matt missing games. Think Bennine J. and Jerome Mathis.

So Schaub is the only QB in the NFL who takes dirty hits? Come on... Spin it like you want but he needs to prove he can handle sixteen games in a year. If he does it next year, then I'll shut up.

spurstexanstros
12-28-2008, 04:02 PM
I didnt see anyone mention the schedule thsat had us playing 3 out of first 4 on the raod and Hurricane Ike that disrupted the season and the city of Houston. That alone could doom a season. I predicted 10-6 at the end of last season and there was a couple of games that should have given them that record. After the Pitt loss I was afraid this would be a set back season and after Ike I had lost confidence in a 10-6 record, some predicted a 3 in season....you know who you are. I consider this season a step forward if not remaining stationary. As I have said The texans need to have a 10-6 record before having hope of making playoffs.

My prediction for next year 10-6 until proven otherwise........

mexican_texan
12-28-2008, 04:02 PM
I never mentioned Jarred Allen's name in any post. Bottom line, Schaub hasn't played all sixteen games here in two years. Not even close. It's like an employee who misses work for a variety of reason. Sick kids, death in the family, ETC, ETC... Yes, they are all legit, and it's a better reason than the guy who misses work because he is always hungover, but htey still miss work. Bottom line, you need someone who shows up to work.
Oh **** off. He had torn muscles in different part of his body. Let's see you show up for work with torn mucles.

nunusguy
12-28-2008, 04:05 PM
When Mario went out in the second half, his absense was so obvious - the
pass pressure dropped off to the point of being practically nonexistant.
They are gonna have to do a lot better than Colvin this offseason in terms of givng the D somebody besides Mario to pressure the QB. That has to be our top priority.

PapaL
12-28-2008, 04:06 PM
So Schaub is the only QB in the NFL who takes dirty hits? Come on... Spin it like you want but he needs to prove he can handle sixteen games in a year. If he does it next year, then I'll shut up.

He's the only one that took THOSE dirty hits and he still tried to play.

stingray
12-28-2008, 04:07 PM
Oh **** off. He had torn muscles in different part of his body. Let's see you show up for work with torn mucles.

Ohh, matty was the only Qb who was hurt this year. Boo Hoo.. I feel so sorry for him. Like I said before, I'm not blaming him for getting hurt. But you can't count on a Qb year after year who is injury prone. Next year will be the proof in the pudding.

stingray
12-28-2008, 04:08 PM
And for god's sake, he missed a game because he had a tummy ache..

IlliniJen
12-28-2008, 04:16 PM
Ohh, matty was the only Qb who was hurt this year. Boo Hoo.. I feel so sorry for him. Like I said before, I'm not blaming him for getting hurt. But you can't count on a Qb year after year who is injury prone. Next year will be the proof in the pudding.

You have a very interesting definition of "injury prone." If by "injury prone" you mean unable to control the actions of players diving for his legs, intentionally trying to hurt him, then yes, he is injury prone.

If, however, you are REALISTIC and can see that players diving for your knees may result in an injury that you can no way control, and should in no way be a ding against your so-called toughness, then Schaub has done as well as can be expected given the circumstances.

stingray
12-28-2008, 04:18 PM
You have a very interesting definition of "injury prone." If by "injury prone" you mean unable to control the actions of players diving for his legs, intentionally trying to hurt him, then yes, he is injury prone.

If, however, you are REALISTIC and can see that players diving for your knees may result in an injury that you can no way control, and should in no way be a ding against your so-called toughness, then Schaub has done as well as can be expected given the circumstances.

Let's see if you will be saying the same thing if Matt misses another five games next year for WHATEVER reason.

mexican_texan
12-28-2008, 04:19 PM
Ohh, matty was the only Qb who was hurt this year. Boo Hoo.. I feel so sorry for him. Like I said before, I'm not blaming him for getting hurt. But you can't count on a Qb year after year who is injury prone. Next year will be the proof in the pudding.
Every player in the league is injury prone.

PapaL
12-28-2008, 04:22 PM
Tummy ache? lol. Sage is that you?

Because playing a football after getting out of the hospital w/dehydration and diarrhea is something you should do.

Fool.

stingray
12-28-2008, 04:28 PM
Tummy ache? lol. Sage is that you?

Because playing a football after getting out of the hospital w/dehydration and diarrhea is something you should do.

Fool.


I never said he should play. I just pointed another reason why he missed a game that had nothing to do with a cheap shot. Bottom line he missed the GAME...

And calling me fool? Thanks for keeping it classy. Real classy...

IlliniJen
12-28-2008, 04:29 PM
Let's see if you will be saying the same thing if Matt misses another five games next year for WHATEVER reason.

Unlike you, I don't just look at games missed, I look at things in CONTEXT and consider the REASONS for Schaub missing those games.

Your "logic" is bordering on the absurd. And apparently you've NEVER had the stomach flu. It would have been moronic and irresponsible to try and play Schaub in that condition.

stingray
12-28-2008, 04:33 PM
Unlike you, I don't just look at games missed, I look at things in CONTEXT and consider the REASONS for Schaub missing those games.

Your "logic" is bordering on the absurd. And apparently you've NEVER had the stomach flu. It would have been moronic and irresponsible to try and play Schaub in that condition.

Again, I never said he should play. And Does it matter why he missed the Game? Really, does it matter why he misses games when he has missed a third of his games in his first two years?

stingray
12-28-2008, 04:35 PM
And you guys are acting like I want Matt out of here. I don't, I think he has some skills. I just think he needs to take the next step next year. Is that to much too ask?

Goatcheese
12-28-2008, 04:37 PM
Detroit fans are more upbeat and positive than Houston fans. :foottap:

IlliniJen
12-28-2008, 04:39 PM
Again, I never said he should play. And Does it matter why he missed the Game? Really, does it matter why he misses games when he has missed a third of his games in his first two years?

Uh, yeah, it DOES matter when you make missed games part of your assessment of his ability and quality as a QB.

You want to ding him on missed games but completely dismiss the reasons for those injuries, insisting he is injury prone. To me that is an indefensible position because it doesn't intelligently or fairly assess Schaub in anyway that has true explicable meaning.

DocBar
12-28-2008, 04:39 PM
The Texans finished with the exact same 8-8 record as in '07, despite having a healthy Andre Johnson for 16 games and finding a legitimate runner in Steve Slaton. No matter how you spin it, the Texans underachieved in 2008.
An unhealthy Schaub cost us at least 2 games because Sage cratered spectacularly. The D cost us quite a bit. I say we grew on offense, overall and established an identity there as a big play, big time unit. The D was mostly unfit for human consumption and at times closely resembled human excrement.
I think the biggest variable is Schaub. He simply needs to improve by next year. He can hardly take any pressure. If he gets any pressure, he seems to panic. But I think he will have a breakout year next year. I think Schaub handles pressure pretty OK. It gets to ANY QB when it's as relentless as the Steelers or tacks. My big knock on Schaub is he thinks he's a young version of Favre and makes some very bad throws cuz he thinks he can make a big play.

stingray
12-28-2008, 04:43 PM
Uh, yeah, it DOES matter when you make missed games part of your assessment of his ability and quality as a QB.

You want to ding him on missed games but completely dismiss the reasons for those injuries, insisting he is injury prone. To me that is an indefensible position because it doesn't intelligently or fairly assess Schaub in anyway that has true explicable meaning.

Well, I hope he stays healthy next year and throws for 4,000 yrds and 30 Td's.. I will gladly eat crow..

beerlover
12-28-2008, 04:44 PM
is we have a beter understanding of who can or can't produce for this team.

#1 need to me is better red zone execution, many different ways to improve in this area but there was some stat posted that had the Texans rated last in the NFL in goal line conversions, before today. thats got to change.

#2 more QB pressure from someone not named Mario Williams

#3 protecting Schaub better

#4 more rb depth

#5 add speed to seconday from safety position

edo783
12-28-2008, 04:56 PM
is we have a beter understanding of who can or can't produce for this team.

#1 need to me is better red zone execution, many different ways to improve in this area but there was some stat posted that had the Texans rated last in the NFL in goal line conversions, before today. thats got to change.

#2 more QB pressure from someone not named Mario Williams

#3 protecting Schaub better

#4 more rb depth

#5 add speed to seconday from safety position

What he said and stop the dang turnovers.

If we can stop the turn overs and get our defense to be in the #15 range, we will make the play offs if our offense continues to play like they have shown they can.

Runner
12-28-2008, 04:58 PM
The Texans finished with the exact same 8-8 record as in '07, despite having a healthy Andre Johnson for 16 games and finding a legitimate runner in Steve Slaton. No matter how you spin it, the Texans underachieved in 2008.

Agreed. The Texans received a career year out of Johnson, and Slaton turned in the best year ever by a Texans running back. Injuries were minimal compared to last year, and some of them even resulted in getting better players on the field.

The fact that Sage did not play well does not ameliorate the situation. Sage is a member of the Texans and his play affects the overall evaluation of the team.

The only alternative I see to the Texans underachieving this year is that they overachieved last year.

I agree that the Texans as a team - coaching staff included - underachieved. There was no "incremental improvement" as a whole, although some parts of the team improved. These improvements were offset by areas that regressed.

Lucky
12-28-2008, 05:19 PM
An unhealthy Schaub cost us at least 2 games because Sage cratered spectacularly. The D cost us quite a bit. I say we grew on offense, overall and established an identity there as a big play, big time unit. The D was mostly unfit for human consumption and at times closely resembled human excrement.

Before the season, Schaub was considered #1 and Sage was #1A. Now, there's this huge dropoff that cost the team 2 games? At least? Yeah, Matt is better. But, the team had a better record under Sage in '07. Maybe they overachieved last year? They certainly didn't overacheive this year.

The Texans grew on offense because (A) Andre Johnson played a 16 game schedule and (B) Steve Slaton was a mid round godsend. The Texans still have issues in the red zone and still are among the leaders in turnovers. They create as many big plays for the opponent as they do for themselves, which is why they entered week 17 3rd in total yardage, but only 20th in points scored. And the league still recognizes points scored, rather than total yardage, to determine who wins.

Sure, the defense stunk this season. As they did least season. And the season before. Still, it was the defense's improved play that keyed the Texans 4 game win streak that saved Kubiak's job. While I don't think that is sufficient to save jobs on the defensive staff, human excrement is just as overstated as the offense's "big time, big play" label.

Again, I disagree with the premise that the '08 8-8 is more impressive than last season's 8-8. The '07 team overcame some major injuries, and fought back to the 8-8 record. This year's unit found excuses to lose. That's the diffrence I see between the similar records.

taruky
12-28-2008, 05:28 PM
Schaub has made plenty of positive plays under pressure. Packers game, Titans game... Are you guys going to nitpick every less than positive play under pressure for the rest of his career? The guy was under pressure a good bit today and had no INTs, same with the Tenessee game.

Look at what the Steelers have done to other QBs, including Romo.

The fact is, Schaub has proven to be a good QB.

beerlover
12-28-2008, 05:37 PM
Schaub has proven he can play - when he gets protection :specnatz:

keyser
12-28-2008, 05:38 PM
Again, I disagree with the premise that the '08 8-8 is more impressive than last season's 8-8. The '07 team overcame some major injuries, and fought back to the 8-8 record. This year's unit found excuses to lose. That's the diffrence I see between the similar records.

I understand what you're saying, but I would argue that:

Overcoming the tough start of several road games, dealing with the Hurricane, and having an early and unexpected bye-week represent overcoming adversities, similar to overcoming injuries last year.
My gut feeling is that this year's non-conference opponents were quite a bit stronger than than last year's.
We ended up the season by beating a team that was playing for a playoff spot, rather than a team that had given up.


I know a lot of the optimism people feel is that we salvaged 8-8 from a season that started 0-4. Many people considered the season over at that point, and yet the team still came back. To me, that's a better example of having "fought back to an 8-8 record" than last year's example. I easily see why people can be more optimistic about this team's chances now than they were last at the end of last year.

That said, I do think that the 8-8 record is underperforming what this team should have been capable of.

Lucky
12-28-2008, 05:50 PM
I understand what you're saying, but I would argue that:

Overcoming the tough start of several road games, dealing with the Hurricane, and having an early and unexpected bye-week represent overcoming adversities, similar to overcoming injuries last year.


The tough start was on the schedule from the get go. Before Ike was a drizzle off the coast of Africa. The Texans had prepared all offseason to meet the challenge of playing those playoff teams. And they failed, spectacularly.

I would submit that the team was lucky, that's right - lucky, to miss the Ravens in week 2. Else they could have begun the season 0-5 rather than 0-4. No, overcoming adversity would have been winning a couple of those games. What the Texans did was succumb to adversity.

PapaL
12-28-2008, 05:51 PM
I never said he should play. I just pointed another reason why he missed a game that had nothing to do with a cheap shot. Bottom line he missed the GAME...

And calling me fool? Thanks for keeping it classy. Real classy...


Call'em how I see'em.

You have this tunnel vision that Schaub is injury prone and it won't let you see the story for what it is. Put any QB in Schaub's place for those hits and they will also go down.

stingray
12-28-2008, 05:54 PM
Call'em how I see'em.

You have this tunnel vision that Schaub is injury prone and it won't let you see the story for what it is. Put any QB in Schaub's place for those hits and they will also go down.

Maybe you got tunnel vision thinking that Schaub is the only one that takes those hits in the NFL?

PapaL
12-28-2008, 06:00 PM
I don't deny that he's taken hits, illegal hits which have resulted in fines, and as a direct result has been injured multiple times. It is what it is. He is still the best QB the Houston Texans have ever had and will only continue to improve as the team around him improves.

He's the only person who has taken those hits in those games. He's the only one who knows how hurt he truly was. After seeing him limp around on one leg and try to gut it our proves to me that he wants to be out there and will stay out there until he is dragged out.

That my friend is not "injury prone". That is one tough one legged SOB w/a "tummy ache".

infantrycak
12-28-2008, 06:33 PM
Maybe you got tunnel vision thinking that Schaub is the only one that takes those hits in the NFL?

OK, you are so confident--see if you can find more than one other QB who has been hit by cheap shots totaling fines of $90,000 in the past two years. We will leave out the league wide memo on chucking players from games to make it easier for you.

Calling being hospitalized to receive multiple IV's a tummy ache removes any hint of credibility from your position by the way.

stingray
12-28-2008, 06:50 PM
OK, you are so confident--see if you can find more than one other QB who has been hit by cheap shots totaling fines of $90,000 in the past two years. We will leave out the league wide memo on chucking players from games to make it easier for you.

Calling being hospitalized to receive multiple IV's a tummy ache removes any hint of credibility from your position by the way.

Please, You're counting on NFL fines to define Schaub's toughness... Wes Welker got a $10,000 fine for a snow angel. Gimme a break..
And the only test that can measure Matt's injury history is the test of puntcuality. Is schaub there for the start of the Texans games? So far he's missed 11 out of 32 games. That's the only stat that matters.

Maddict5
12-28-2008, 07:11 PM
I agree that the Texans as a team - coaching staff included - underachieved. There was no "incremental improvement" as a whole, although some parts of the team improved. These improvements were offset by areas that regressed.

where did we regress?

The1ApplePie
12-28-2008, 07:14 PM
The differences?

Healthy Andre Johnson
Steve Slaton

Schaub or Sage are still pretty much interchangable. Any QB that can throw balls at AJ with some kind of accuracy is all our offense requires

Maddict5
12-28-2008, 07:17 PM
Schaub or Sage are still pretty much interchangable. Any QB that can throw balls at AJ with some kind of accuracy is all our offense requires
:rolleyes:

if you seriously believe that, i feel bad for ya

The1ApplePie
12-28-2008, 07:21 PM
:rolleyes:

if you seriously believe that, i feel bad for ya

Both are mediocre QBs that let AJ do all the work for them.

Schaub is better than Sage but not by a wide margin that swings an entire season

HoustonFrog
12-28-2008, 07:23 PM
The Texans finished with the exact same 8-8 record as in '07, despite having a healthy Andre Johnson for 16 games and finding a legitimate runner in Steve Slaton. No matter how you spin it, the Texans underachieved in 2008.

Agreed. 8-8 with "improvement" is just another excuse for a lost season where they should have won more games. Same mistakes and turnovers and errors in coaching, etc though. I think last year people said 8-8 was a jump for the Texans to matter this year. Atlanta and Miami made a difference with brand new situations against tough competition at times and here Houston is trying to build on 8-8. I hate that mentality.

Lucky
12-28-2008, 07:33 PM
where did we regress?
Points scored, points allowed, QB sacks, sacks allowed, special teams play.

At least the turnover number stayed the same (31).

Maddict5
12-28-2008, 07:34 PM
Both are mediocre QBs that let AJ do all the work for them.

Schaub is better than Sage but not by a wide margin that swings an entire season


schaub is alot better than mediocre.. especially since his injury. i suggest watching more nfl qb's to appreciate how good schaub is

sage looked comparable to schaub last yr but schaubs play has improved alot and sage has been exposed so to speak. imo to still suggest they're interchangeable is extremely ignorant

Wolf
12-28-2008, 07:35 PM
wow, I am suprised there still is a Matt debate.

is he elite? heck no...Time will tell if he can lead this team to playoffs,but I don't see that we need an elite QB and Schaub seems to do fine right now.

As far as injuries go..He isn't rob Johnson

maybe some have been spoiled with YKW and his ability to stay healthy when he was here.

And Matt isn't Ahmad Green either when it comes to injuries

TexansFanatic
12-28-2008, 08:02 PM
The Texans finished with the exact same 8-8 record as in '07, despite having a healthy Andre Johnson for 16 games and finding a legitimate runner in Steve Slaton. No matter how you spin it, the Texans underachieved in 2008.

This is how I see it.

Last year, they did well to finish 8 and 8. This year, they should have won 10 or 11 games.

junior
12-28-2008, 08:15 PM
Bottom line is, this team wins with a healthy Schaub at the helm.

Bottom line is he was 6-5 as a starter this year, we need better than that to compete in the AFC. NE was 11-5 and missed the playoffs.

He did improve from last year, but he put up some gaudy numbers when he played, can we really expect better numbers. Only to limit his turnovers and hope he stays where he is with his other numbers.

The fact is now when other teams used to look at our offense and game plan for us it is safe to say we didn't get the same focus that that team would put into a scheme like they were playing NE, Indy, or NO. Now we will and we will have to see how we respond to more creative defensive schemes that we will definitely get next season.

We can slice the numbers up anyway you want, but at the end of the year we are average.

The best division record we have ever had was 4-2 in 2004, we need at least that next year to even think about the playoffs. We have been 3-3, 1-5, and 2-4 during Kubiak's tenure, that is the biggest reason why we haven't turned the corner.

Wolf
12-28-2008, 08:15 PM
This is how I see it.

Last year, they did well to finish 8 and 8. This year, they should have won 10 or 11 games.

I agreed with that too

I am glad I never saw any Texan player or coach use the excuse of the bye-week as an excuse being it was so early

Runner
12-28-2008, 09:09 PM
Points scored, points allowed, QB sacks, sacks allowed, special teams play.

At least the turnover number stayed the same (31).

I'd add that back-up quarterback play got worse.

More subjectively, the coaching in some areas and game time decision making didn't get any better. In-game decisions may have actually been worse, given that the Texans had more weapons to take advantage of this season. Even if it stayed at the same level of bad, it brings into question the staff's ability to learn from past mistakes.

=================================

I would use Miami, Atlanta, and Baltimore as examples of teams that showed tangible improvement. And if they are doing it the "wrong way", I don't want to be right.

GuerillaBlack
12-28-2008, 09:45 PM
And calling me fool? Thanks for keeping it classy. Real classy...

Fool. Fool. Fool. Fool. Fool. Fool.

cowbellm00
12-28-2008, 09:55 PM
I couldn't agree more. Last season we were handed our 8-8 rather than another "losing" season because of the Jags situation. This year we earned our 8-8. You could actually say we threw an 11-5 away, but the 8-8 we got is diserved. I know we all said "next season", last season, but I feel much more secure saying it this time. Next season, we'll be playing more than 16 games before hanging it up.

:fans:
good season boys.

is that the Texans finished a solid 8-4 down, developed an identity on offense.

Just a power-oriented running back and get some pieces to at least upgrade a bad defense to at least a so-so one...this is a sure playoff team next season.

So all the cynics and naysayers crowing, "just another mediocre season"...well, let's just say that I give credit to the team for playing hard after a very, very difficult 0-4 start considering circumstances here in Houston and difficult Steelers and Titans defenses that stuffed the new learn-on-the-fly offensive line scheme.

Go Texans!

Hooston Texan
12-28-2008, 09:57 PM
In 2007, we beat only two teams that drafted higher than us in the following draft, and one of those two teams (Jacksonville) basically conceded the game to us. The other was a pretty lifeless Tampa team that benefitted from playing in what was (that year) a terrible division. The other six teams we beat picked in the top 13.

This year, we've defeated two divisional champs (Tennessee and Miami) and another team--Chicago--that we kept out of the playoffs by beating (with Tampa and Dallas both losing today). We beat two completely lousy teams (Detroit and Cincy) and three teams who were chic picks to play in the Super Bowl going into the season.

We were at least competitive in every game after Pittsburgh. We had plenty of chances in Tennessee but the redzone cost us that game. We melted down at the end against Baltimore, but that was a 6 point game going into the fourth quarter.

As for our play against divisional foes, we were a coin-flip and an unprecedented one-player meltdown from being 4-2. The other two losses were at Tennessee in a much-closer-than-the-score game and by six at Indy.

Our offense is now feared. We've never had any unit (aside from kickoff returns in 2005) that struck fear into an opponents' heart in the franchise's history. The defense needs to step up, no doubt.

The record is the same, but I'm pretty convinced that the 2008 Texans would wipe the floor with their 2007 predecessors.

taruky
12-28-2008, 10:08 PM
Bottom line is he was 6-5 as a starter this year, we need better than that to compete in the AFC. NE was 11-5 and missed the playoffs.

He did improve from last year, but he put up some gaudy numbers when he played, can we really expect better numbers. Only to limit his turnovers and hope he stays where he is with his other numbers.

The fact is now when other teams used to look at our offense and game plan for us it is safe to say we didn't get the same focus that that team would put into a scheme like they were playing NE, Indy, or NO. Now we will and we will have to see how we respond to more creative defensive schemes that we will definitely get next season.

We can slice the numbers up anyway you want, but at the end of the year we are average.

The best division record we have ever had was 4-2 in 2004, we need at least that next year to even think about the playoffs. We have been 3-3, 1-5, and 2-4 during Kubiak's tenure, that is the biggest reason why we haven't turned the corner.

On this team, 6-5 is quite reasonable. Also lost in that record is the fact that of those losses, 2 were to Pittsburgh and Tennessee, and against Minnesota he played only one half (on a torn MCL).

The Texans' record is not indicative of Matt's quality any more than it is of Andre Johnson or Mario Williams'.

Wolf
12-28-2008, 10:20 PM
and this defense still gave up 24.6 points a game ...:yikes:

for the record offense 22.6 points a game

DocBar
12-28-2008, 10:37 PM
Before the season, Schaub was considered #1 and Sage was #1A. Now, there's this huge dropoff that cost the team 2 games? At least? Yeah, Matt is better. But, the team had a better record under Sage in '07. Maybe they overachieved last year? They certainly didn't overacheive this year.

The Texans grew on offense because (A) Andre Johnson played a 16 game schedule and (B) Steve Slaton was a mid round godsend. The Texans still have issues in the red zone and still are among the leaders in turnovers. They create as many big plays for the opponent as they do for themselves, which is why they entered week 17 3rd in total yardage, but only 20th in points scored. And the league still recognizes points scored, rather than total yardage, to determine who wins.

Sure, the defense stunk this season. As they did least season. And the season before. Still, it was the defense's improved play that keyed the Texans 4 game win streak that saved Kubiak's job. While I don't think that is sufficient to save jobs on the defensive staff, human excrement is just as overstated as the offense's "big time, big play" label.

Again, I disagree with the premise that the '08 8-8 is more impressive than last season's 8-8. The '07 team overcame some major injuries, and fought back to the 8-8 record. This year's unit found excuses to lose. That's the diffrence I see between the similar records. Everyone knows that Schaub and Sage were 1 and 1A. The fact remains that Sage cratered and he had some bad games. That happens in the NFL. We started 0-4, had Ike hit, our bye week was in week 2. We had quite a bit of adversity to overcome this year. When you start 0-4, I think it could be called "fighting back" to have a record of 8-8. Am I thrilled about that? HELL NO!!!This team still has a few warts on offense, but not many. Schaub needs to protect the ball better, Kubes has to to a better job of playcalling and clock management, we have to get TD's on more red zone possessions, etc... That can be learned with the talent we have on O. As far as our D "keying" our 4 game winning streak, go back and look at the stats and rewatch a game or two. Our D went from pitiful to mediocre. Slaton was definitely a diamond in the rough, but AJ doesn't get his numbers if the QB can't get him the ball. This squad beats last years hands down in my book. I'm not thrilled about the results, but next year looks a lot more promising after what I saw, primarily on offense, on the field this year. We lost some heartbreakers, but that happens to teams trying to get over the hump and learn to win.

Wolf
12-28-2008, 10:57 PM
http://blog.kir.com/archives/2008/12/2008_weekly_loc_16.asp

Well, at least this time, the Texans (8-8) beat the Bears' (9-7) first-string rather than the Jags' junior varsity to achieve only the franchise's second non-losing season in seven NFL campaigns. The win also allowed the Texans to match my pre-season prediction for wins this season.

As usual, the Texans were led by their star WR Andre Johnson, who had 10 receptions for 148 yds and two TD's. QB Matt Schaub finished 27-36 for 328 yards, the two TD's to Johnson and, most importantly, no interceptions.

After the Bears jumped off to a 10-0 lead in a desultory first quarter, the Texans' offense pretty well had its way with the Bears' defense, rolling up 455 yds total offense. Surprisingly, after looking defenseless during the first quarter and losing stud DE Mario Williams to a pulled muscle for most of the second half, the Texans' defense rebounded from the first quarter to hold the Bears to under 300 yds total offense.

So, another season, another 8-8 record for the Texans. There are definitely two ways to look at the Texans at this point in time.

On one hand, with another non-winning season, the Texans continue to be one of the least-successful new franchises in the history of the National Football League. Inasmuch as the team had a 7-9 record after its third year, one can make the case that not much progress has been made over the past four seasons. Yes, the offense is better, but the defense is arguably worse than it was after Year Three. Have the deck chairs simply been rearranged on the Titanic?

On the other hand, several signs indicate that the Texans are headed in the right direction

Allstar
12-29-2008, 12:50 AM
A big difference between this year and last is quality of wins and quality of opponents beat.

Lucky
12-29-2008, 06:38 AM
A big difference between this year and last is quality of wins and quality of opponents beat.
The Texans went 2-6 vs playoff teams this season. The same record they had versus playoff teams in 2007.

Trail.Blazr
12-29-2008, 07:14 AM
this 8-8 vs. last year...

Bottom line up top, we are an improved 8-8.

- We didn't lead the league in injuries this year! What a breath of fresh air. I guess I can quit questioning the strength/conditioning program?? Maybe its a matter of time we don't suffer as many injuries? Or does depth make a big contribution? What ever the reason, this season was alot more tolerable.

- As mentioned already, last year we ended by beating the Jag's backups. This year we ended by beating a team that needed the win for the playoffs.

- This year, if you combine the schedule and Ike, it's evident that the road to 8-8 was tougher than last year.

- Better division record. I regret giving away games to the jags and colts early on, which on paper makes for an 10-6 season? The previous year, 10-6 wasn't even wishful. 8-8 was.

This year we go into the offseason with an easier roster to manage. Meaning we have less "gaping holes" to fill through FA/draft. While I'd agree the the majority of what I hear/read, it's the defense that should get more attention this offseason, I personally think this might be the first year we go into an offseason with a realistic notion that we can actually plug all the holes. If true, does that make the 09-10 season promising in that we will finally be a well rounded TEAM? I believe in that theory.

Porky
12-29-2008, 08:45 AM
My glass is half full.

Bottom line for me is I feel that if a game were played 10 times right now between this group and the last years team, I think this team wins about 7 times or so.

If I have that same feeling next year, then we are in the playoffs. :fans:

Jackie Chiles
12-29-2008, 11:42 AM
My glass is half full.

Bottom line for me is I feel that if a game were played 10 times right now between this group and the last years team, I think this team wins about 7 times or so.

If I have that same feeling next year, then we are in the playoffs. :fans:

I think we can be a double digit win team next year but I don't know if its going to be enough for the playoffs. I don't see Tenn and Indy dropping off, I wish I did, but I think its WC or bust for us next year. New England won 11 this year and they are on the outside looking in. I think it could happen again next season because of the AFC North and AFC South. Pitt and Baltimore are going to be very very good with those defenses and the fact that they each have QBs. Couple it with two high quality teams in the South not including us. We are going to have to step up big time in our division.

Wolf
12-29-2008, 11:37 PM
What I think the Texans are thinking

December 29, 2008 1:55 PM

Posted by ESPN.com's Paul Kuharsky

What I think they're thinking in Houston Texans headquarters this afternoon:

We have a lot to like, particularly our key offensive skill personnel in Matt Schaub, Andre Johnson and Steve Slaton. But after a second 8-8, nothing less than a playoff berth in 2009 will be satisfactory, and that will be no easy task with the Titans and Colts poised to stay good.

Which means we can't spend a lot of time thinking about what we like, thinking with a smile about those skill guys or Mario Williams. We have to think about what we don't like.

Yes, the defense played a lot better down the stretch as we won five of our last six. But part of it was because we decided we didn't care about taking more risks, because what did it matter if we rolled the dice and lost?

We need to carry more of that mentality into games that matter, but to do so we need some significant upgrades in personnel. That means defensive line help for Williams and a healthy Amobi Okoye. That means a revamped secondary with safeties we can rely on.

That means we have to play in September and October like we've played recently in December, so we can find out what meaningful games in December actually feel like


http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcsouth/0-7-235/What-I-think-the-Texans-are-thinking.html

I really didn't know what thread this could go into .so....

imatexan
12-30-2008, 12:28 AM
"Rome was not built in a day"

:tiphat:

infantrycak
12-30-2008, 12:35 AM
I don't know. Last year it seemed like they were lucky on a few games to get to 8-8 and this year it seems like they underperformed on several games to get to 8-8. I guess that is improvement in a hopefully launching board sort of way. Still disappointing.