PDA

View Full Version : Percy Harvin


The1ApplePie
12-24-2008, 08:56 AM
I would love to see this guy line up next to AJ next year. If the Texans want to embrace their role as an elite offensive team a dominating No. 2 reciever would go a long way to "greatest show on turf" territory.

He should be around at the time we pick, and I'd see him as best the player available if Terrence Cody and Brandon Spikes are gone

beerlover
12-24-2008, 10:06 AM
I think he slides to the 2nd rd. we'll have to see if his measureables scare of some teams from using their 1st on a DeSean Jackson type of slot wr/special teams star........if the Texans are interested he just might be there in the 2nd but I would prefer a more physical, blocking WR similar to AJ. This is my favorite WR in the whole wide country for the Texans, who reminds me of a young, stronger version of Marvin Harrison- Hakeem Nicks :)

http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/nicks_hakeem00.html

TexansSeminole
12-24-2008, 03:42 PM
Nicks and Harvin are both great players and both deserve to be first rounders but we really don't need to draft a receiver.

YoungTexanFan
12-24-2008, 04:29 PM
Harvin doesn't run crisp routes and has size issues. He traps the ball to his chest far too often for my liking and is more of a slot reciever. He is the SEC version of Jacoby Jones. If Percy Harvin is BPA at our pick, we traded out of the first round. Also, there is no need to draft a WR in the first aside from Crabtree. Harvey is a track guy in football pads and seems the next in line for Florida recievers.

TexansSeminole
12-25-2008, 06:27 PM
Harvin doesn't run crisp routes and has size issues. He traps the ball to his chest far too often for my liking and is more of a slot reciever. He is the SEC version of Jacoby Jones. If Percy Harvin is BPA at our pick, we traded out of the first round. Also, there is no need to draft a WR in the first aside from Crabtree. Harvey is a track guy in football pads and seems the next in line for Florida recievers.

I disagree. I think Percy Harvin will be a significant addition to an NFL team almost right away, if not right away.

Don't see much of Jacoby Jones in Percy Harvin.

As for WRs in the first I would take Crabtree, Bryant, Harvin, or Nicks in the first round if I needed a receiver.

beerlover
12-25-2008, 06:41 PM
I disagree. I think Percy Harvin will be a significant addition to an NFL team almost right away, if not right away.

Don't see much of Jacoby Jones in Percy Harvin.

As for WRs in the first I would take Crabtree, Bryant, Harvin, or Nicks in the first round if I needed a receiver.

speed kills in the NFL, so does small hands as we've found out with Jacoby ball security cannot be overlooked. I'll reserve judgement until the combine but I do expect him to blister the 40 4.25 - 4.35 :jogger:

YoungTexanFan
12-25-2008, 07:19 PM
I disagree. I think Percy Harvin will be a significant addition to an NFL team almost right away, if not right away.

Don't see much of Jacoby Jones in Percy Harvin.

As for WRs in the first I would take Crabtree, Bryant, Harvin, or Nicks in the first round if I needed a receiver.

If he is a significant addition to an NFL team it will be on special teams only. He just isn't ready yet. He has elite athleticism but he needs work on the little parts of being a WR. If you don't like the Jacoby comparison, think maybe a Devin Hester potential guy but not quite that level. Would you draft a return man in the first round?

Hooston Texan
12-25-2008, 09:10 PM
No, thanks. Unless McNair is giving up his "no miscreants" policy, there is no way we're taking this guy.

I grew up in Harvin's hometown (Virginia Beach). I came to Houston a dozen years ago but still have family and friends in that area. Harvin was trouble, trouble, trouble coming out of high school. He was suspended almost for as many games as he played. I've heard conflicting reports as to the substance of his issues, but suffice it to say that not even Frank Beamer was particularly interested in recruiting this guy despite his obvious ability.

Now, maybe he found religion or something like that at UF--he seems to have kept his nose clean, but I admit I don't keep up with the Gainesville police blotter.

The guy can definitely play. No doubt about that. But if he does live up to his potential, you can take this to the bank: he will be the next diva/prima-donna WR.

mexican_texan
12-26-2008, 12:25 AM
What's Chad Jackson up to these days?

The1ApplePie
01-11-2009, 01:00 PM
After seeing him in the BCS game and with Crabtree and Nicks declaring, Harvin would be there in the second round. Would be a hell of a pickup.

mexican_texan
01-11-2009, 01:08 PM
I don't see him as an upgrade over Andre Davis

stingray
01-11-2009, 01:09 PM
Would you draft a return man in the first round?

If he was as good as Hester, hell yes. That guy has won many games for the Bears by just returning punts and kickoffs.

mexican_texan
01-11-2009, 01:10 PM
Daniael Manning is the kick returner in Chicago now.

stingray
01-11-2009, 01:17 PM
Daniael Manning is the kick returner in Chicago now.

Yes, but only until now. Hester has returned many kickoffs in the years past. And the only reason he doesn't return kickoffs anymore because the coaches thought he was getting tired with his increase plays as a reciever.

Texecutioner
01-11-2009, 01:22 PM
I would love to see this guy line up next to AJ next year. If the Texans want to embrace their role as an elite offensive team a dominating No. 2 reciever would go a long way to "greatest show on turf" territory.

He should be around at the time we pick, and I'd see him as best the player available if Terrence Cody and Brandon Spikes are gone

The last thing the Texans need to do is waste their first round pick on a WR when they already have a really good #2 in Kevin Walter.

The Texans would never do that any way, so this is more of a fantasy of yours. The Texans will draft defense and I'll guarantee you that. Our needs on the D line, secondary, and LB position far exceed any other position on the field.

The1ApplePie
01-11-2009, 01:33 PM
The last thing the Texans need to do is waste their first round pick on a WR when they already have a really good #2 in Kevin Walter.

The Texans would never do that any way, so this is more of a fantasy of yours. The Texans will draft defense and I'll guarantee you that. Our needs on the D line, secondary, and LB position far exceed any other position on the field.

Kevin Walter proved in the Oakland game that he isn't a good No. 2. AJ got taken away and Kevin Walter was nothing.

Guy puts up big numbers because he is next to the best WR in football, not because he's a great talent. Adequate but not great.

The offense is built around one player and no team will win championships or playoff games that way

gtexan02
01-11-2009, 01:34 PM
The last thing the Texans need to do is waste their first round pick on a WR when they already have a really good #2 in Kevin Walter.

The Texans would never do that any way, so this is more of a fantasy of yours. The Texans will draft defense and I'll guarantee you that. Our needs on the D line, secondary, and LB position far exceed any other position on the field.

Well said. Even if the top receiver in the draft lasted until 15, I'd prefer to trade down. We have too many pressing needs on defense to upgrade our already #3 or 4 offense

bah007
01-11-2009, 01:41 PM
Harvin isn't worth a 1st, IMO. At least not to us.

As a pure athlete, he is a great talent. But he just isn't ready to play WR in the NFL. He has the tools, but he is gonna be a guy that only returns kicks for a year or two until he sharpens up his routes. Based on potential, 1st round talent.

If we were going WR, Crabtree, Maclin, Britt, Heyward-Bey, and Nicks are all better picks I think.

rmartin65
01-11-2009, 01:50 PM
The only receiver that I like in the 1st 3 rounds is Crabtree. If he is there at 15, and no suitable trades arise, the Texans have to take a look. The passing attack would be dynamic. Harvin is still a couple years away from being a legit receiver. He does most of his damage (at least against Oklahoma) on the ground.

Maddict5
01-11-2009, 01:51 PM
Kevin Walter proved in the Oakland game that he isn't a good No. 2. AJ got taken away and Kevin Walter was nothing.

Guy puts up big numbers because he is next to the best WR in football, not because he's a great talent. Adequate but not great.

The offense is built around one player and no team will win championships or playoff games that way


1 game :rolleyes:

not to even mention that aso was lined up on him too. what about in GB when harris was doing a good job on aj? or last yr when aj was out etc

schaub, slaton, aj, walter and daniels are plenty good enough to win playoff games after what ive seen the last two weeks.. why waste a pick that NEEDS to go to the defensiv e side of the ball

ReliantTexan
01-11-2009, 03:44 PM
The offense is built around one player and no team will win championships or playoff games that wayWe have the third ranked offense in the NFL, you don't have that just because of one player, no matter how good he is. This offense is plenty good enough to win playoff games.

bah007
01-11-2009, 03:52 PM
We have the third ranked offense in the NFL, you don't have that just because of one player, no matter how good he is. This offense is plenty good enough to win playoff games.

Agreed.

Upgrade the defense and get more consistent on offense and we make the playoffs next year.

The1ApplePie
01-11-2009, 06:34 PM
We have the third ranked offense in the NFL, you don't have that just because of one player, no matter how good he is. This offense is plenty good enough to win playoff games.

The entire offense keys off AJ is the problem and without him the whole thing falls apart. Basically what happens to Philly without Westbrook

Texecutioner
01-11-2009, 06:45 PM
The entire offense keys off AJ is the problem and without him the whole thing falls apart. Basically what happens to Philly without Westbrook

You keep saying that but simply is not true. Daniels had plenty of games where he played well and I think he was one of the best TE's in the league. I would like to upgrade the #2 WR position at some point, but right now Walter is good enough for us to have a steady offense that goes up and down the field. He blocks very well which helps out the running game as well.

The team needs to use their pick on defense. We need D. We still have like two spots on the D line that need upgrades, our LB's need upgrades, and so does our secondary. This entire draft needs to be mainly defensive oriented.

Even if Crabtree were there I would love the opportunity to pick him, but in the end I think I would still pass even if he were there at 15, because our defense would still have problems, and down the road there is no way we could afford to have Johnson and Crabtree on the same team. Both of them would want to much money just like how the Cardinals will have to let go of Bolden this off season because they can't afford to pay two elite WR's like that.

TexansSeminole
01-11-2009, 06:48 PM
You keep saying that but simply is not true. Daniels had plenty of games where he played well and I think he was one of the best TE's in the league. I would like to upgrade the #2 WR position at some point, but right now Walter is good enough for us to have a steady offense that goes up and down the field. He blocks very well which helps out the running game as well.

The team needs to use their pick on defense. We need D. We still have like two spots on the D line that need upgrades, our LB's need upgrades, and so does our secondary. This entire draft needs to be mainly defensive oriented.

Even if Crabtree were there I would love the opportunity to pick him, but in the end I think I would still pass even if he were there at 15, because our defense would still have problems, and down the road there is no way we could afford to have Johnson and Crabtree on the same team. Both of them would want to much money just like how the Cardinals will have to let go of Bolden this off season because they can't afford to pay two elite WR's like that.


What a Crabtree would mean to the Texans would be Andre eventually leaving for another team simply because the Texans could not afford it and Crabtree would be the younger of the two, assuming Crabtree is any good.

Revolution
01-11-2009, 06:50 PM
Even if Crabtree were there I would love the opportunity to pick him, but in the end I think I would still pass even if he were there at 15, because our defense would still have problems, and down the road there is no way we could afford to have Johnson and Crabtree on the same team.

I had to interject on this one. I understand your point, but if Crabtree is available at 15 (not going to happen), I just can't pass him up. Too good of a talent to let slip by.

TexansSeminole
01-11-2009, 06:57 PM
I had to interject on this one. I understand your point, but if Crabtree is available at 15 (not going to happen), I just can't pass him up. Too good of a talent to let slip by.

I'd probably try to work something out where I could trade him or do a deal where I swap picks with someone and receive an extra pick or a player. In my mind there is less than a 10% chance Crabtree is there at 15. My guess is that alot of teams would try and move up for a guy like Crabtree at 15. I think he can have a similiar impact to an offense as a rookie that Calvin Johnson (750 yds 4 TD), or Andre Johnson (975 yds 4 TD) did as a rookie.

Texecutioner
01-11-2009, 06:58 PM
What a Crabtree would mean to the Texans would be Andre eventually leaving for another team simply because the Texans could not afford it and Crabtree would be the younger of the two, assuming Crabtree is any good.

That was exactly part of my point. We might have the two of them for a year or two, but eventually one would leave that would most likely be AJ because he is older. Bolden will be leaving the Cards after this year. Most teams just can't afford to ELITE studs at WR.

mussop
01-12-2009, 03:39 AM
I disagree. I think Percy Harvin will be a significant addition to an NFL team almost right away, if not right away.

Don't see much of Jacoby Jones in Percy Harvin.

As for WRs in the first I would take Crabtree, Bryant, Harvin, or Nicks in the first round if I needed a receiver.

Bryant isnt coming out is he? If so I would rate him even with Crabtree. I would also add Darrius Heyward-Bey, Maryland to that list.

BigBull17
01-12-2009, 07:18 AM
The last thing the Texans need to do is waste their first round pick on a WR when they already have a really good #2 in Kevin Walter.

The Texans would never do that any way, so this is more of a fantasy of yours. The Texans will draft defense and I'll guarantee you that. Our needs on the D line, secondary, and LB position far exceed any other position on the field.

I am all for a speedy slot guy, in the 5th round. 1st-4th round needs to be almost any position on defense.

The1ApplePie
01-12-2009, 09:28 AM
I'm for drafting defense but even if all seven picks go to the defense, it will still suck next year.

The offense needs a No. 2 WR and a few interior linemen to be the best offense in the NFL. With all the power run/ strong defense teams in the AFC, the best way to beat them is to throw over them and keep the score high.

gtexan02
01-12-2009, 09:53 AM
I'm for drafting defense but even if all seven picks go to the defense, it will still suck next year.

The offense needs a No. 2 WR and a few interior linemen to be the best offense in the NFL. With all the power run/ strong defense teams in the AFC, the best way to beat them is to throw over them and keep the score high.

Maybe you are confused as to what a prototypical "#2" wide receiver really is.

Only a few offenses actually employ 2 #1 WRs. Teams like Arizona are the exception to the rule by having guys like Boldin and Fitz on the same team.

Our "subpar" (according to you) #2 wide receiver, Kevin Walter, had 60 catches for 900 yards and 8 TDs. Only 5 NFL teams had a #2 WR with more receiving yards than Walter.

Walter is excellent in this offense, and I hope we aren't stupid enough to try and upgrade that position. He could easily break 1,000 yards next season if Schaub stays healthy


Throwing over teams and keeping the score high only usually works in regular season games. I want to build my team evenly, not just try and outscore my opponent. We are already ranked 3rd in the NFL in offense. Moving up 2 spots is not going to suddenly compensate for our bottom ranked defense

beerlover
01-12-2009, 09:55 AM
Percy Harvin > DeSean Jackson

I would upgrade his grade to low first/high second :)

Ole Miss Texan
01-12-2009, 11:06 AM
This team doesn't need a high pick at WR (no crabtree, harvin or maclin). As fun as it would be on Madden (I totally agree) it's just not relevant to actual on the field play.

As good as AJ is, I don't think he's the MVP on this team from a true VALUE idea. don't get me wrong, he's the best WR in the entire league, he's Schaub's "go to" target... but with this offense, you can interchange players at a decent rate (WR's and RB's). Look at when AJ went down, we had other players like Walter and Davis, Daniels step up. As good as AJ is... we really didn't miss him THAT much. That doesn't mean we don't need him, he's such a deadly and a big part of the offense.

I think Steve Slaton was the difference maker on offense during this past year (most valuable player). We're a pass happy team and have a lot of targets that Schaub can get it too consistently. Slaton is like Westbrook not AJ... if Slaton goes down... we're screwed. The Defense will not respect our running game for good reason and will consistently run 5 or 6 DB sets.

Ole Miss Texan
01-12-2009, 11:11 AM
I wouldn't rate any of these WR's that come out as top 10 prospects. I think Crabtree has a lot of hype to him and may get selected early because of team need. There will certainly be better players available but a team will select him based on need.

I wouldn't worry about Crabtree's 40-time either. It's not his straightline speed that bothers me, once he gets the ball in his hand, he's good enough to take it to the house every time. I think the key will be his ability to get separation at the pro level. He's a huge target which is what I love.

Harvin seems like a great utility player. I think some creative teams could use him like he was used at Florida. But players like him, I'm really not excited about using high draft picks on unless the team is already complete. Could be a great draft pick for the Titans, to be honest. We'll see what happens with Haynesworth b/c their Def. will drop if he's gone, but if they go offense, Harvin would be a great choice. Their running game is solid, Harvin would be a good WR for them and beable to line up behind center some plays, use on a reverse, etc.

Texecutioner
01-12-2009, 11:26 AM
Percy Harvin > DeSean Jackson

I would upgrade his grade to low first/high second :)

I think you are underrating Jackson BIG TIME! Jackson had a rookie season this year that very very few rookie WR's ever accomplish. He had a season just as good as Andre Johnson's rookie season was. I'm not sure off top if Jackson got 1,000 yards or not, but I guarantee you that he was close to it and got at least 900 yards, and he came in this season as the Eagles 3rd WR on the team.

Jackson will be a very good WR for a long time. I doubt that Harvin will have a season as good as what Jackson did this year. Hardly any rookie WR's have a year even close to what Jackson did this year. Royal had an exceptional season as well, and like I said this is very rare when rookies play this well because it is one of the hardest positions to transition to into the NFL. Harvin would be extremely lucky to duplicate what Jackson or Royal did this year.

beerlover
01-12-2009, 01:05 PM
I think you are underrating Jackson BIG TIME! Jackson had a rookie season this year that very very few rookie WR's ever accomplish. He had a season just as good as Andre Johnson's rookie season was. I'm not sure off top if Jackson got 1,000 yards or not, but I guarantee you that he was close to it and got at least 900 yards, and he came in this season as the Eagles 3rd WR on the team.

Jackson will be a very good WR for a long time. I doubt that Harvin will have a season as good as what Jackson did this year. Hardly any rookie WR's have a year even close to what Jackson did this year. Royal had an exceptional season as well, and like I said this is very rare when rookies play this well because it is one of the hardest positions to transition to into the NFL. Harvin would be extremely lucky to duplicate what Jackson or Royal did this year.

I understand that. I'm talking about coming out of College. fact is DeSean went undrafted until the 49th pick or middle of the 2nd rd. people now see what DeSean has done despite questions about his size & will upgrade Percy Harvin draft stock accordingly.

bah007
01-12-2009, 01:21 PM
I wouldn't rate any of these WR's that come out as top 10 prospects. I think Crabtree has a lot of hype to him and may get selected early because of team need. There will certainly be better players available but a team will select him based on need.

I wouldn't worry about Crabtree's 40-time either. It's not his straightline speed that bothers me, once he gets the ball in his hand, he's good enough to take it to the house every time. I think the key will be his ability to get separation at the pro level. He's a huge target which is what I love.

Harvin seems like a great utility player. I think some creative teams could use him like he was used at Florida. But players like him, I'm really not excited about using high draft picks on unless the team is already complete. Could be a great draft pick for the Titans, to be honest. We'll see what happens with Haynesworth b/c their Def. will drop if he's gone, but if they go offense, Harvin would be a great choice. Their running game is solid, Harvin would be a good WR for them and beable to line up behind center some plays, use on a reverse, etc.

Agree with your post except with one part.

I think Maclin would be a better pick for the Titans than Harvin. They still lack a true threat at WR as a pass catcher.

It is debatable as to whether Maclin is a better overall player than Harvin, but as a pure WR it's an easy call.

Texecutioner
01-12-2009, 01:42 PM
I understand that. I'm talking about coming out of College. fact is DeSean went undrafted until the 49th pick or middle of the 2nd rd. people now see what DeSean has done despite questions about his size & will upgrade Percy Harvin draft stock accordingly.

I don't think that it will help out Harvin's draft status at all. NFL teams aren't going to suddenly change and think that rookie WR's are going to start producing like good #2 WR's just because Jackson and Royal did this year. This was a very good year for WR's in the draft for some of the 2nd to 3rd round guys, but there were also some serious busts this year at WR.

Limas Sweed was a horrible bust this year and was so bad that he barely even got to suit up this year for the Steelers. Limas was supposed to be a top rookie WR and went to a team with a great QB and other weapons. Malcom Kelly was a stud in college and was supposed to be really good as well, and I have no idea what happened to him this season or if he was even suiting up either. Those are two tall WR's that had great hands in college and did absolutely nothing this season and there is no reason to think they will next year either at this point.

WR's are a very shaky pick in many drafts. I remember thinking that Dewayne Jarret would be a great NFL WR and he has been horrible as well.

Harvin has quite a few questions about him. I think that he'll be a pretty good player, but he has a lot to work on, and he is easily the type of player that where he found his success in college, he won't be able to play that same sort of game in the pros and be a dynamic player. He'll have to work on his route running skills, his blocking, and his deep routes A LOT. Harvin found a lot of success in college by catching little short passes, hand offs, and quick hitches and screens where he was athletic enough to out play the defenders. He won't be able to do that stuff in the NFL off of pure athleticism. He'll have to learn how to be more of a traditional WR and learn how to get away from DB's that are cramming him up at the line. He has a ton of stuff to learn when it comes to technique as well.

TexansSeminole
01-12-2009, 04:25 PM
Bryant isnt coming out is he? If so I would rate him even with Crabtree. I would also add Darrius Heyward-Bey, Maryland to that list.

Yea, I was about to post these two things in the thread.

TexansSeminole
01-12-2009, 04:32 PM
Harvin found a lot of success in college by catching little short passes, hand offs, and quick hitches and screens where he was athletic enough to out play the defenders. He won't be able to do that stuff in the NFL off of pure athleticism. He'll have to learn how to be more of a traditional WR and learn how to get away from DB's that are cramming him up at the line. He has a ton of stuff to learn when it comes to technique as well.

That's what all the Florida receivers do under Urban Meyer. The only receiver for Florida that I thought played like a true receiver was Murphy and he is really not that good of a player.

I think Percy Harvin is dynamic though, and I think he is worth a 1st round pick. He will have alot to improve on going into the NFL but he has a couple attributes that you can't teach: speed, shiftiness, and the ability to break tackles. He just makes plays with the ball in his hands.

As for Crabtree I don't know what the confusion is about this guy. I think he is a complete stud. The questions about his 40 time seem to be out of place. Not only have receivers had success with slower 40 times but Crabtree is not even one of those guys. He'll probably run a 4.5 at worst and I see no problem with that in the NFL.

Texecutioner
01-12-2009, 05:00 PM
That's what all the Florida receivers do under Urban Meyer. The only receiver for Florida that I thought played like a true receiver was Murphy and he is really not that good of a player.

I think Percy Harvin is dynamic though, and I think he is worth a 1st round pick. He will have alot to improve on going into the NFL but he has a couple attributes that you can't teach: speed, shiftiness, and the ability to break tackles. He just makes plays with the ball in his hands.

As for Crabtree I don't know what the confusion is about this guy. I think he is a complete stud. The questions about his 40 time seem to be out of place. Not only have receivers had success with slower 40 times but Crabtree is not even one of those guys. He'll probably run a 4.5 at worst and I see no problem with that in the NFL.

I agree with everything you just said.

The1ApplePie
01-12-2009, 09:34 PM
Throwing over teams and keeping the score high only usually works in regular season games. I want to build my team evenly, not just try and outscore my opponent. We are already ranked 3rd in the NFL in offense. Moving up 2 spots is not going to suddenly compensate for our bottom ranked defense

With the salary cap, most teams are either defense heavy or offense heavy, balance is pretty much a thing of the past. The four teams left standing are all far from balanced. The most balanced team in the NFL was the Giants and they got bounced.

"Defense wins championships" means "adequate defense wins championships". You don't need an elite or even good defense to win (see Rams and Colts). Fans in Texas always overrate the importance of defense.

The Houston Texans defense is terrible. It will never be the Pittsburgh Steelers. Five years from now, it still won't be up to the par of the Steelers. There are only two great players on the defense; DeMeco and Mario.

The offense has the potential to be a thing of legend with a few pieces added. There is no depth to it however and an injury to Slaton or AJ basically ends the season.

I would love my boy Rey Rey in the first, adding a third playmaker and a presence against the run in the middle. Building the offense with help on the interior line and in the WR corps could make a solid unit for years to come with depth greater than paper.

The Colts set a great pattern to follow and a much more realistic model at this point than trying to be the Eagles or the Giants.