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tom1354788
05-30-2004, 04:47 PM
Just a thought, but the more I contemplate the upcoming season the more I see Babin being the key and measure of how we are going to do.

The way I see it, its now year 3 time for Carr to release his potential, but im not expecting anything exceptional, (a improvement but nothing too eye opening)

Davis I fully expect to do well, and improve with round 1200 to 1300 yards.

A.J to put in another solid year with around 1100 yards, even with him being double teamed more often.

From what I gather on the boards this seems to be a pretty acurate of the expectations for next year, and with these sort of figures I see us being ranked round about 15-20.

But the diffrence in our game that may put us in the mix for a playoff bearth is having a descent pass rush. Something that we just have not had up till now. Now I know Babin is a rookie and the weight of expectations on him are going to be high, especially seeing what we gave up to get him, but I feel the beter he does, the further the team can reach.

So what do you all reckon:

Do you see Babin starting?
Do you see him doing well?
Do you see our pass rush improving even without Babin this year?
What value do you put on us having a descent pass rush (considering our other talants/weaknesses)?

J-Man
05-30-2004, 06:15 PM
1st off I think saying that Babs is the key to our sucess for the season maybe overeaching to say the least. It is critical that we upgrade our pass rush, however, I think even with out his presence it will have improved from las year; if for no other reason than us keeping our guys healthy.

Babs will start, and show a high motor and good effort...probably getting a few sacks and several pressures in the process. We will also see him get schooled several times by solid veteran lineman. That's just how it goes.

Don't get me wrong...if he comes out and posts double digit sacks I will be buying the next keg and the tailgate! I am just trying to be realistic.

texasguy346
05-30-2004, 06:24 PM
I think its never a good idea to say that a season's success or failure is based on the play of one particular rookie. Rookies take time to develop, and its unrealistic to expect them to be the savior their first season in the league. Its more of a situation where any contributions that the player can make is just an added bonus. One player won't drastically improve a pass rush. However, I feel the return of Gary Walker and Seth Payne along the DLine, and the acquisition of Smith will drastically improve our defensive pass rush. Remember that in our first season Walker earned a spot on the Pro Bowl with his pass rushing skills. Also, a good pass rush can make the secondary and defense as a whole look a lot better. But I think the key here is to keep a realistic perspective on this whole situation. I think Babin has a good chance of starting, but don't rule out Antwan Peek starting in the first few games if Babin's transition to OLB is a little slow. I don't think he'll put up extravagant numbers as a rookie, in part because hes making a leap from Western Michigan to the NFL, and he's switching positions at that. Look for him to put up anywhere between 5 to 9 sacks if he's healthy, and perhaps an interception. I'm much more interested in seeing how Robinson does this season. Will he have an excellent rookie season like Seatle's Marcus Trufant, or will he have a slow and uneventful season of learning the NFL game?

BornOrange
05-30-2004, 06:53 PM
I agree with J-man and texasguy.

An improved pass rush is going to be necessary for the Texans to go 8-8, much less contend for the playoffs, but Babin isn't the biggest change in that regard for 2004.
Having a healthy Walker and Payne is more important than Babin.
Having a healthy secondary (especially Glenn) is more important than Babin.
Adding Robaire Smith is more important than Babin.

Don't get me wrong. I think Jason Babin can be a major contributor as a rookie. However, there are other factors that will be even more important to an improved pass rush in 2004.

BuffSoldier
05-30-2004, 08:54 PM
Jason Babin will start, he will make an impact(not much in coverage), and he will improve the pass rush.

But dont expect him to be the anchor on D or the reason the Texans make the playoffs, if they make the playoffs. He will be a good addition to the pass rush and he will have 6-12 sacks but dont expect him to come in and be dominant this year. Too much pressure to put on any rookie, even the man who decides who he gets drafted by(Eli) and he soldier(K2).

rittenhouserobz
06-01-2004, 12:45 AM
But the diffrence in our game that may put us in the mix for a playoff bearth is having a descent pass rush. Something that we just have not had up till now. Now I know Babin is a rookie and the weight of expectations on him are going to be high, especially seeing what we gave up to get him, but I feel the beter he does, the further the team can reach.


Robinson should be the one with pressure. He is replacing a CB who feasibly could start at LCB one to two more years. Whoe is Babin replacing? Babin will have less pressure than Robinson. I hope they both contribute. It is hard to ask so much of a rookie who is really just trying to get used to the speed of the NFL game and will occasionally show flashes of brilliance.

Don't forget we have Peek and Orr. They may not be the same athlete as Babin, but I remember seeing good things from these two. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to belittle Babin's role. I just think there are other options to consider if he isn't quite ready.

D-ReK
06-01-2004, 12:59 AM
to answer your questions:

Do you see Babin starting? if he shows any amount of promise in the preseason, he will start...the only thing that can stop him is injury or ungodly play from peek or orr...
Do you see him doing well? he will have struggles his first few games, but as the season wears on, he will impress more than a few...i estimate 75 tackles and 8 sacks...
Do you see our pass rush improving even without Babin this year? this is pretty much insured by the return of a healthy payne and walker and the addition of robaire smith...
What value do you put on us having a descent pass rush (considering our other talants/weaknesses)? a good pass rush can be the difference between a defense ranked 30th and a defense that is ranked 15th...it also opens up the field for our DB's...
:twocents:

J-Man
06-01-2004, 10:37 AM
to answer your questions:

Do you see him doing well? he will have struggles his first few games, but as the season wears on, he will impress more than a few...i estimate 75 tackles and 8 sacks...
:

75 T's and 8 sacks...might be shooting a little high. I agree that he will struggle and somewhere around the back half of the season we will see him getting up on the learning curve, but 75/8 is a pretty good year for a 3/4 OLB. Hope that it happens, but hope is not a method.

TheOgre
06-01-2004, 11:17 AM
We might have said the same thing about Stacey Mack before last season. We did alright without him.

texan279
06-01-2004, 11:17 PM
I don't see how Babin will be the key and measure of how we are doing this year...he is a rookie coming straight into the NFL who will be starting his first year and who is making a transition from one position to another.

aj.
06-02-2004, 07:36 AM
I would say David Carr's performance and consistent pressure on the opposing QB (regardless of who applies it) are the two primary keys to the season.

texanfan1
06-28-2004, 01:46 PM
do you think babin will ever be an elite pass rusherundefined

texanfan1
06-28-2004, 01:56 PM
is baben going to be that good

Fiddy
06-28-2004, 02:00 PM
I think he has the capability to put up double digits sacks, but not for a year or two

Nawzer
06-28-2004, 04:51 PM
For us to be a successful team this year our "star" players have to play up to that level and some of our young and average players has to have an exceptional year. We are still in a point in our development where we cannot rely on any one player, much less a rookie.

TheOgre
06-28-2004, 05:07 PM
I think it is too much to ask for both Babin and Robinson to have big years. They are rookies. One of them is starting a new position too.

Optimism is great but don't set yourself up for a freefall in expectations if these rookies don't live up to your desires.

Blake
06-28-2004, 05:09 PM
Football is the epitome of a "team game." Babin is a peice of it. But I wouldnt put the sucess of the season on the boy.

beerlover
06-28-2004, 05:20 PM
I hope he does just so J-Man can plunk down that keg :jam:

It's exciting just to imagine Babin having that kinda impact, but the Texans play a team game everybody relies on each other so the most important factor is they all continue to work hard, improve as a team and avoid any of those season ending injury's. Dreaming a little- its not out of the realm that Jason has an all-rookie year & leads the team with 8 sacks. If some want to say that Babin is key to the Texans success I don't see any problem with that, he seems to have good leadership abilities, is mature and not concerned about egos or money matters.

When does the season start? Let's GO TEXANS :headbang:

keyfro
06-28-2004, 07:57 PM
the success of the season doesn't rely souly on robinson or babin's success...no it's rests on the whole team...babin and robinson are only pieces of that team...the team, the coaches, and the admin's will make the success of the team...any given sunday will be the key to our success...can we win the games we're supposed to win and a few we're not...that's the key gentleman...not a player...but the game

jhawktx
06-28-2004, 08:29 PM
Anytime you are counting on a rookie as your make or break guy for your season (and a defensive rookie at that), you are hurting. No way is he the key to our season.

nunusguy
06-28-2004, 09:52 PM
No, of course he's not the key to the season, but he has the potential to be
"a" key, or "one of the keys" to a vastly improved D. After all, OLB is where the action is at in the 3-4.
When they had the ceremony/press conference over the weekend for his contract signing I watched it a couple times on TV. They had a brief conver-
sation with him. He's very poised and confident and has a certain presence
about him. This is no kid coming out of college, this is a mature man.
And have seen some film, not much, but some of the Mini Camp where you get a glimpsh of him. He is real quick but seems to move very much under control.
I don't know, maybe we got something here.

Ediddy73
06-29-2004, 05:48 PM
Babin is approximately 1.89% of the key to our season. no more, no less. and for the last time, Babs is a female singer with a large nose married to Charles Brolin, Babin is a LB.

powda
06-29-2004, 06:52 PM
we have a 3-4 defense predicated on a pass rush. and linebacker is the biggest cog in that defense---they make the wheel turn. in the scheme of things babins role as a linebacker alone makes his performance on the field worth more then some of the other defensive starters...(namely safety : see matt stevens ,marlon mccree, and eric brown should u have any doubts. all sub par safetys). furthermore, babin is not just a linebbacker in this defense but an outside linebacker to boot. if he excells at his postion the diffrence on the field will be readily noticeable. at first because of his production and then because he frees up other players once offenses start gameplanning around him.

yes, this is a team sport and one player wont do it alone ,but one dominant player sure as hell can make a diffrence. if u disagree with that talk to a falcons fan. :twocents:

Blake
06-29-2004, 07:05 PM
we have a 3-4 defense predicated on a pass rush. and linebacker is the biggest cog in that defense---they make the wheel turn. in the scheme of things babins role as a linebacker alone makes his performance on the field worth more then some of the other defensive starters

Where to start.

The main thing wrong with your statement, is that every player depends on the other players. Babins rush effectiveness, will depend on how well the front 3 stuff the run. The CB's, and S's will rely on the front 7 getting to the QB before the WR's can break free. This isn't basketball. You don't go out and get T-Mac and instantly improve.

The defense is just like an offense. The QB cant be good if, A: Front line doesn't block. And B: WR's don't get open. Use that logic on the defense.

TheOgre
06-29-2004, 07:08 PM
Well said DC. Keep on Rockin'.

Tulip
06-29-2004, 07:14 PM
I think we all learned last year with our rash of injuries just how much we are a team. I was amazed and relieved by the players who stepped up last year from the practice squad. If we can do what we did last year without all of our "necessary" players - we can do just about anything.

Blake
06-29-2004, 07:18 PM
I think we all learned last year with our rash of injuries just how much we are a team. I was amazed and relieved by the players who stepped up last year from the practice squad. If we can do what we did last year without all of our "necessary" players - we can do just about anything.

What ever happend to Shantee Orr? He tore it up last year when he got a chance. And now I dont hear anything about him. He was playing great.

Tulip
06-29-2004, 07:24 PM
What ever happend to Shantee Orr? He tore it up last year when he got a chance. And now I dont hear anything about him. He was playing great.

He was a great surprise last year - I loved watching him play. It's great when players are patient, get their chance and make the most of it.

Ourlads has him listed on the depth chart behind Wong and Peek. I hope they have a spot for him this year. It was nice to see someone on this team actually sack the opposing quarterback.

powda
06-29-2004, 08:04 PM
dc rock, please allow me to reiterate...


linebacker is the biggest cog in that defense

now, as we all know, players at no postion in any defense are independent of the rest of the team. obviously a team can have 2 all-world cbs that dont amount to anything if the qb typically has 6+ seconds to make a throw.

thank you for clarifying what hopefully everyone here already knew.

what im suggesting is that certain schemes rely more on the performance of a particular position. our defense is predicated on rushing the qb. ( did u ever watch the steelers when d.c. was there? ) and where does this rush come from? cbs? safetys? ummmm no. the defensive line? well yes, but no one here is expecting double digit sacks from any one particular d-lineman on this team i hope. if so your in for a let down. truth of the matter is , whatever qb pressure the d-line adds is great and their expected to make the occasional push, but their biggest reponsibility in this defense is to stuff the run and FREE UP THE LINEBACKERS.

why?

because in this defense the linebackers play the key role. they provide coverage, they stuff the run, AND they rush the qb.

The defense is just like an offense. The QB is a "big cog" in every snap. while he cant do it alone, if he doesnt perform well the rest of the offense ( no matter how good ) will suffer accordingly a: open WR's wont get the ball. b: the defense can key on the rb because the qb is a minor threat. Use that logic on the defense.

aj.
06-29-2004, 08:47 PM
whatever qb pressure the d-line adds is great and their expected to make the occasional push, but their biggest reponsibility in this defense is to stuff the run and FREE UP THE LINEBACKERS. Nice case made for the d-line being the key to this defense (at least the front 7).

powda
06-29-2004, 09:27 PM
thats like crediting a pawn who had to move sometime or another to free the queen---------who eventually produced checkmate.

aj.
06-29-2004, 09:31 PM
Interesting then, that we just paid 20 million for a couple of pawns (Walker and Smith).

powda
06-29-2004, 09:42 PM
and how much money do we have invested in linebackers? and how many draft picks? and how long till babin and peek see their big payday once their established players?

draw? :popcorn:

aj.
06-29-2004, 10:24 PM
and how much money do we have invested in linebackers?
Wong: 5 years - $14.2 million with a $4.2 million signing bonus
Sharper: still working on his Ravens contract - $6.1 million cap hit this year and next
Foreman: 5 years - 11.5 million including a $2.2 million signing bonus
Babin: 6 years 10 million with a $3 million signing bonus.

The only mega contract of the bunch is Sharper's and he will be a premium to re-sign. Wong could also get a little pricey after next season and is worth it only if he moves inside IMO.

Compare that to the D-line:
Walker: 6 years $37.2 million with a $11 million signing bonus (ouch)
Smith: 6 years $26.3 million with a $8.3 million signing bonus (ouch)
Payne: still working on his Jax contract - $4.2 million on the cap this year

In terms of contract value, the Texans have considerably more money invested in their three starting DLs (over 60 million) than they do in their four starting LBs (about 47 million remaining). That's skewed somewhat by where Sharper and Wong are in their contracts but it's still real.

and how many draft picks?Three this year and one last year. Before this year's selections of Babin, Anderson, and R. Orr, Antwan Peek was the only LB ever drafted by the Texans. Anderson and Orr's chances of making this team are questionable.

and how long till babin and peek see their big payday once their established players? Who knows? I guess that's a rhetorical question since they need to prove their worth over time. Babin has a six year deal so he's locked in until 2009 with a very reasonable rookie contract. Peek makes close to NFL minimum and his contract expires after next season when he could be eligible for RFA.

Bottom line is your pawn-queen analogy is way off. The D-line and the LBs work as a unit and are very interdependent in this system. Take a major part away from one, whether it be DL or LB, and the other suffers greatly. That should have been brutally obvious last season when we really had some pawns in there at DL. Using your analogy, the LBs should have still excelled with Steve Martin, Junior Ioane, and Jerry DeLoach as the front three (shudder).

wags
06-29-2004, 11:08 PM
I'm not worried about Babin. He seems to have that attitude that great LB's have. He will be good for many years. I just hope Robinson can play as well as well as Newman and Trufant did last year.

powda
06-30-2004, 12:36 AM
particularly intresting that u should forget names like clemens. and while babin has a nice contract its still only a 1st time contract (as is Peek). also while u may comment on the fact that wong and sharpers contracts are skewered (perhaps u meant inflation?), you forgot to mention inflation. in the real world that amounts to maybe 3% a year. in the sports industry its much higher. 66% of our starting defensive line was signed at this years going rate----at a time ,i might add ,when the market was willing to bare more then ussual due to the lack of quality defensive lineman available. if right now all of our defensive lineman we're on the open market (as 1 of them might as well have been and another was) i think they would all garner more then your average defensive linemen ,because in truth i think we have an above average defensive line now (for our system at least). i do not think we have a better then average group of linebackers. no, our defensive line dosent have incredible sack numbers ,but their production otherwise is better then par...foreman on the otherhand is not a better then average player. you forgot to mention that as well. when you account for the fact that foreman is only average ,babin is on a first time contract, inflation (sharper and wong on outdated contracts), and what the market bares (what positions are in quanity and scarce on the contract year), i'll happily side the way i do.

its not my intention to get into a financial dispute with you as i fully understand im outgunned against your incredible knowledge of money in the nfl. i respect your contributions to this site as well as hpf. thank you. but, while my pawn/queen analogy may be offbase in terms of money ,i do not feel thats the case on the field. the defensive line is a means by wich the linebackers can be succesfull no doubt. but the 3-4 defense ,in a scheme based solely on qb pressure, will not inherit any amount of respect until the linebacking core is legitamate. linebackers (in general) do make our system effective. babin is a part of that. lookback to the steelers and panthers. opposing teams didnt gameplan against the defensive line...they gameplanned against players like kevin green, lamar lathon, chad brown, and greg loyd for good reason. those linebackers made the defense fierce. they made the wheels turn.

Take a major part away from one, whether it be DL or LB, and the other suffers greatly. That should have been brutally obvious last season when we really had some pawns in there at DL. Using your analogy, the LBs should have still excelled with Steve Martin, Junior Ioane, and Jerry DeLoach as the front three (shudder).

i dont fully disagree with that ,but consider we also had the second worst secondary statistically in the nfl. and...as i mentioned, only an average linebacking core.


as for my mentioning the texans dedicating far more draft picks to the linebackers rather then the defensive line? wether they make the team or not its meant to illustrate a point: the texans understand what makes their defense succesfull. we needed depth in the linebacking core ,and the texans drafted players to fill that need. we needed depth in the defensive line ,and the texans signed undrafted free agents.

clandestin
06-30-2004, 03:31 AM
I think it's worth noting that the defense went from 16th in the league to 31st last year. While we did lose Glenn for several games and lost posey, we did replace stevens with mcree. Despite the differences I don't think anyone will disagree that the DL injuries played the biggest factor in our defense's plummet down the rankings.

I disagree with the notion that 3-4 DLinemen are somehow less important in our scheme. I think this is a myth due to the fact that they typically rack up fewer stats then a 4-3 linemen. Fewer stats does not mean less value. The front 7--really the entire 11--act as a unit and the saying 'you're only as strong as your weakest link' is very applicable to defense in the NFL.

aj.
06-30-2004, 07:36 AM
particularly intresting that u should forget names like clemens. I forgot about Clemons because he was released May 14.

also while u may comment on the fact that wong and sharpers contracts are skewered (perhaps u meant inflation?), I didn't say they were "skewered," I said their numbers appear skewed in the comparison because of where they are in their contracts, i.e., they are in the final years of older contracts vs. the beginning years of newer fatter contracts like Walker and Smith (as both of us pointed out).

we needed depth in the linebacking core ,and the texans drafted players to fill that need. we needed depth in the defensive line ,and the texans signed undrafted free agents. The Texans signed two undrafted free agents at DL this year (Pili and Renteria) and neither has a very good chance to make the team unless there's injury issues again. After they signed Walker and Smith to veteran free agent contracts, DeLoach and Sears became backups. Ioane was already here as depth, as was Terrance Martin, Jason Davis and Jeremy Slechta. They still need one more guy to shore up depth IMO, especially at backup NT. Possibly a late camp cut from another team.

The Texans had only drafted one LB in two years with a realistic chance of making the team so it was time for them to look for an impact guy this year (some years, they just aren't there). They also signed a couple of undrafted free agent LBs as well (Marcus Bell and Anthony Dunn). In 2002, they drafted two DL's (Charles Hill early and Howard Green late) and neither made the team.

To this day, three years in, the vast majority of their defensive roster (at all positions) consists of players acquired through veteran free agency or the expansion draft (9 of 11 starters). The only projected starters acquired through the college draft are one LB and one DB drafted this year. That's just the way they close to fill the defensive roster, as opposed to the offense which is college draft heavy.

while my pawn/queen analogy may be offbase in terms of money ,i do not feel thats the case on the field. Using that logic we just terrribly overpaid a couple of d-linemen where we could have gotten by with much lesser talent (like Sears and DeLoach as starters maybe?). That's where we disagree. You're entitled to your opinion, I just don't see it that way. Good debate.

infantrycak
06-30-2004, 08:39 AM
Here is the sack production for 2002 (16th D) and 2003 (31st D):

DL 2002 - 9.5
DL 2003 - 3.5

LB's 2002 - 20
LB's 2003 - 14

DB's 2002 - 4.5
DB's 2003 - 1.5

Looks like a ripple effect straight on thru the D from the loss of Walker & Payne IMO. DL went from good 3-4 pressure up the middle by Payne and great pressure by Walker to no pressure resulting in a harder time for the LB's to get to the QB and combined with Glenn being injured making it harder for the DB's to come on blitzes. Seems to me that this is an argument over how to pronounce potato. If the DL isn't good enough to create pressure the LB's will not be freed up to make plays. If the LB's aren't good enough to make something of the pressure a DL gives them then the pressure is worthless. A 3-4 still has a front seven that has to pressure the QB--not 4 LB's and 3 schmoes that people just have to run around.


but consider we also had the second worst secondary statistically in the nfl.

But consider that it wasn't the secondaries fault--it was the failure of the front seven to provide any QB pressure.

TheOgre
06-30-2004, 11:03 AM
Have you noticed that the Patriots, a team that plays the 3-4 the majority of the time, have spent 1st round picks on DL the last few years? Have you also noticed the success this defense has had?

Did you see what Ted Washington did last year when he played NT for the Pats? He didn't get many tackles or sacks but he manhandled the guys in the middle and freed up the LB's to roam free.

NT Casey Hampton does the same thing for the Steelers. He is the cog in the middle.

Bottom line is that if you don't have some good guys up front, the LB's are worthless.

Chance_C
06-30-2004, 11:57 AM
Bottom line is that if you don't have some good guys up front, the LB's are worthless.

And, if the guys up front are above average, then your LB's tend to get nice free agent contracts....see James Posey.

Vinny
06-30-2004, 02:29 PM
The bottom line is there are 22 men on the field at once and this is very much a team sport. Every postion group is important.

powda
06-30-2004, 03:26 PM
i mentioned charlie clemons because he was projected at the beginning of last year to be one of our starting linebackers. i felt his contract might be more relevant to our debate because his contract was signed last year. my mistake ,however, because in truth he was only a marginal player to begin with. i was also aware that we we're still paying on him ,but his cap hit isnt nearly as bad as i thought it was...( only $975,000 according to your numbers ). fair enough.

as for what happens on the field...


Looks like a ripple effect straight on thru the D


I don't think anyone will disagree that the DL injuries played the biggest factor in our defense's plummet down the rankings.

Every postion group is important.


Bottom line is that if you don't have some good guys up front, the LB's are worthless.


all true and relevant statements wich i fully acknowledged and agreed with before your posts were even added to the conversation.



the defensive line is a means by wich the linebackers can be succesfull no doubt.


and...



now, as we all know, players at no postion in any defense are independent of the rest of the team. obviously a team can have 2 all-world cbs that dont amount to anything if the qb typically has 6+ seconds to make a throw.

thank you for clarifying what hopefully everyone here already knew.

my notion throughout has been in some schemes one position might play a bigger role in the success of a team then another, as a whole no offense or defense can be superior if one position is a weak link. thats a given.

consider: no team will have a good rushing game without a solid offensive line ,and a quarterback who makes the defense respect the passing game.

now consider those same elements and include a truly great running back. that teams rushing production just went from good to great. why?

the running back.

all pices played signifigant roles ,but the additon of a great running back was the final determining factor. the biggest factor.

my contention has been that the diffrence between a good defense and a great defense will depend upon the production of our linebackers. thats where babin comes in. babin and wong specificaly will be counted on to pressure the quarterback more then any other players. and pressure is after all the staple of our defense.



Good debate.

agreed. right or wrong im enjoying this.

Vinny
06-30-2004, 03:40 PM
Glad to see you finally show up around here Powda. I see you have jumped right in. :sumo:

powda
06-30-2004, 03:47 PM
lol.

yeah i have. and the waters neck level and rising.

idonno:

tom1354788
06-30-2004, 04:16 PM
lol..... im loving this when i started this post all i really wanted to do was find out the opinion, on the effect babin would have on the team. I mean obviously one player does not make a team, but he does contribute to the success of the team.

Now there are lots of people who are talking about 22 men, team sport, etc which is all very honurable and all, but the truth is you are going to have a better chance of success if you have the best individuals in each position. The job of building a team, as such, is down to the coach's.

now what i wanted to know is what effect do you think babin will have on our team? how much of a upgrade is he? for his first year, and for his texans career.

The case of Glenn is a good point if we had of had him for the games he missed how many do you think we would have one? you see one player can and will make a diffrence.

my personal opinion is that Babin gives our team a better rushing threat on the qb, that alone should (Hopefully) change the way other teams play against us. Now even if babin does not put up great individual stats, i think that our rushing stats for the team will improve overall because of his presence.

Now does that sound about right to anyone?

Dilbert R.
07-01-2004, 12:29 PM
I like the debate. As far as Babin, we all know HE by himself is not going to make or break the season - HOWEVER, given his size, speed, instincts, passion, intangibles, I don't believe the transition to the next level and the new position will be all that tough of a move for him. I don't expect we should have to wait too long for him to become a big part of a solid defensive team.
I agree more pressure is on D. Robinson at corner than Babin, because of the move of Coleman, and the fact that we play in the AFC south.

El Tejano
07-01-2004, 12:38 PM
The one thing that is good about the Robinson pick and him starting so early is because of two people. Marcus Coleman and Marlon Mcree. By having Mcree signed we can let Coleman go back to his CB spot should Robinson need more time to develop, thus letting Mcree take back over the FS position. So really this would be the year to put Robinson in as a starter. He will get his reps for as long as Glenn stays healthy because I am sure many QBs will not be throwing Glenn's way this season.

powda
07-01-2004, 09:11 PM
"D-Rob" is under more pressure to perform (at least by most fans and the media). he was drafted higher, he makes more money, and his mistakes will be far more visible then babin's.

as for a forecast of babin's performance this year:

5-8 sacks (should be realistic i think),

70-80 tackles,

a LOT of qb pressures,

and an ankle injury or pulled hamstring wich inhibits his performance for a portion of the year. i say that half tongue in cheek ,but i wont be surprised if its true. have you seen how quick this guy is for a man his size? incredible.

and let me include...from what i've seen his demeanor is a nice change of pace. profesional to no end. and he didnt B.S. when it came to his contract. i'm really looking forward to what he does here.

WMUBroncos
07-02-2004, 07:35 AM
Ok guys, I figure it's time for me to throw my 2 cents in. I am an alum of Western Michigan, graduating recently, watching Babin come up through my college career, hell even had some classes with the guy and frequented the bar scenes with him. On and off the field the guy is a class act, bottomline. He is a gym rat, who has tons of that dangerous word, potential, who can still mold himself into a dominate LB in this league. The dude is one of the fiercest kids I've ever known and a pure animal on the field. Off the field, Jason stays out of trouble, has great family sense that links him to suporting his local community and is just a great all around guy. Now being up in Detroit I have no choice but to be a die-hard LIONS fan, but come week 3, I'll be sporting my recently ordered Babin #93 Texans Jersey.
Looks like you guys have a good board here, I'm glad to be a part of it now.
Oh yeah, how bought some Houston inside beats on Andre Johnson, that kid is sick and he's my #1 fantasy sleeper....who's with me?
So until next time....

WAR WMU Broncos
WAR LIONS
WAR Houston
and WAR Training Camp creeping up on us....

I....AM......OUT!!!

aj.
07-02-2004, 07:56 AM
After watching AJs rookie performance I wouldn't consider him a sleeper. I think he's a legit starting fantasy WR this season.

We know it will be tough at times for Jason as a rookie to adjust to the NFL and learn this defense but like you, I think he has the potential to be very good. He'll have to play run-stopper, pass-rusher, and drop into coverage from time to time against NFL talent so my guess is that it's not going to be easy for him right away. Hopefully, he settles in and becomes the impact player we need him to be. He needs to be very good to justify the Day 1 move we made to get him.

Welcome aboard.

WMUBroncos
07-02-2004, 12:29 PM
I agree about Johnson being a solid starter....however I fair from the land of the Lions....as far as the Fantasy leagues go up here....Johnson flys under the radar. He will be a GREAT 4th or 5th rounder. I play in a 16 team league, starting:
2 QB
2 RB
3 WR
1 TE
1 K
1 DEF
1 Utility Player

Draft gets tough for everyone, but its a format I would suggest to anyone looking for a competetive 16 team league, no more, no less.

Blake
07-02-2004, 01:03 PM
On and off the field the guy is a class act, bottomline.

That is the kinda guys the Texans covet.

Onto the fantasy side of this topic(s) :rolleyes: IMO, this year johnson will be a great #3 WR for any fantasy team. He could even beat out your #2 WR. He is poised to have a breakout year. And he is the goto guy in the air for Houston.

Welcome aboard WMUBroncos

Vinny
07-02-2004, 03:00 PM
Glad to have you WMU. Thanks for the scoop.