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stingray
12-21-2008, 05:35 PM
And you pass two plays in a row.. Kubiak, you really think you are a genius don't you? You moron...

TEXANS84
12-21-2008, 05:36 PM
Is what may lose this game. How can Kubes ok a pass just bothers me to no end.

Hervoyel
12-21-2008, 05:40 PM
Is what may lose this game. How can Kubes ok a pass just bothers me to no end.

No faith in his offensive line and running back. That's sad. We had two shots at gaining a yard and we conceded that we couldn't get it on the ground TWICE.

Texans Pride
12-21-2008, 05:42 PM
That was the most ridiculous play call I've seen this year. Your faced with inches....go with a high conversion percentage play, not a cocky prayer into the end zone.

mussop
12-21-2008, 05:43 PM
No faith in his offensive line and running back. That's sad. We had two shots at gaining a yard and we conceded that we couldn't get it on the ground TWICE.


For all those who say our offense is fine we need to draft all defense I give xzibit a. Our Ol was outplayed all day.

GuerillaBlack
12-21-2008, 05:47 PM
Is what may lose this game. How can Kubes ok a pass just bothers me to no end.

Kubiak believed he was God. All he needed to do was run it in with Matt or Slaton. Hell, Leach would have been the best choice as he busts heads daily. This loss really irritates me.

mussop
12-21-2008, 05:56 PM
Kubiak believed he was God. All he needed to do was run it in with Matt or Slaton. Hell, Leach would have been the best choice as he busts heads daily. This loss really irritates me.

No he just watched the Raiders DL ***** slap our OL all day and knew we had a better chance any where but up the middle.

TexansSeminole
12-21-2008, 05:56 PM
What the F? I don't understand this at all. I don't even know what to say about it.

No he just watched the Raiders DL ***** slap our OL all day and knew we had a better chance any where but up the middle.

So he decides to throw it twice? No, I don't care what their DL is doing. Stupid as hell playcalling. Anyone who thinks that playcalling isn't stupid needs to get checked out.

PapaL
12-21-2008, 06:10 PM
You know what - We should have put Turk in the game and run the WildTurkey Offense. It worked so well the last time we "used" it. Whats the worse that could have happened?

IlliniJen
12-21-2008, 06:45 PM
No faith in his offensive line and running back. That's sad. We had two shots at gaining a yard and we conceded that we couldn't get it on the ground TWICE.

It's either he has no faith in his line (which makes no sense) or he thinks he's an offensive genius, and can out think the other team.

I don't care which one it is. I'm SICK TO DEATH of mediocrity and stupidity. I don't have to be a big fat freakin' 160+ IQ-owning Smarty McSmartypants to know that YOU GO WITH THE HIGH PERCENTAGE PLAY of running the damn ball behind Vonte Leach with freakin' half a yard to go.

I abhor stupidity and poor decision making. ABHOR IT. As in, I hate it. Loathe it. Believe it should be purged from the earth in a great white hot fire. And guess who's "*****" list Kubiak just landed up on. Mine.

I'm done with Kubiak. I want proven winners. Guys who know how to prepare for games and how to manage them. I want coaches who will run it up the gut mercilessly on 3rd and 1/2 a yard. I want coaches who don't "out think" themselves out of games. Kubiak is NOT a genius. He is a gimmick who saw some little bit of success and now he's exposed like a stripper who just had a pasty malfunction.

I sat watching those two third and forth down plays with my mouth agape. I looked like Dom Capers as those two plays unfolded. You're supposed to put your team in the position to win the damn game, not try some trickeration when it's freakin' not necessary. Want some trickeration, Kubes? How about you prepare your team to expect onsides kicks? How's about that?

I'M DONE with Kubiak. D-U-N. DONE. This guy is a joke of a head coach.

spurstexanstros
12-21-2008, 06:51 PM
I think they should have run the toss play instead of running into the back of the o-line .. it worked against Tenn.. they didnt even try it today

Hervoyel
12-21-2008, 06:51 PM
No he just watched the Raiders DL ***** slap our OL all day and knew we had a better chance any where but up the middle.

And that changes with plays like converting a first down on the ground to keep a drive alive down at the goal line. You don't take that away from the defense by just not doing it.

Schaub could have sneaked that over with very little trouble. You give a defense the idea that you're scared to run up the middle to get a yard and you give them a huge lift. You confirm that by telling your offense to not even try once and you pull the rug right out from under them.

Lucky
12-21-2008, 06:54 PM
Want some trickeration, Kubes? How about you prepare your team to expect onsides kicks? How's about that?
The onsides kick has become a high percentage play against the Texans.

I'M DONE with Kubiak. D-U-N. DONE. This guy is a joke of a head coach.
Welcome to the dark side, Jen. It's been lonely over here.

euro-Texan
12-21-2008, 06:58 PM
I would have done the same thing. 9 out of 10 times we would have caught one of those, but I really doubt we would have dome anything against a goalline D unless we gave it to Leach again. We need a bruiser type back.

Pantherstang84
12-21-2008, 06:58 PM
It's either he has no faith in his line (which makes no sense) or he thinks he's an offensive genius, and can out think the other team.

I don't care which one it is. I'm SICK TO DEATH of mediocrity and stupidity. I don't have to be a big fat freakin' 160+ IQ-owning Smarty McSmartypants to know that YOU GO WITH THE HIGH PERCENTAGE PLAY of running the damn ball behind Vonte Leach with freakin' half a yard to go.

I abhor stupidity and poor decision making. ABHOR IT. As in, I hate it. Loathe it. Believe it should be purged from the earth in a great white hot fire. And guess who's "*****" list Kubiak just landed up on. Mine.

I'm done with Kubiak. I want proven winners. Guys who know how to prepare for games and how to manage them. I want coaches who will run it up the gut mercilessly on 3rd and 1/2 a yard. I want coaches who don't "out think" themselves out of games. Kubiak is NOT a genius. He is a gimmick who saw some little bit of success and now he's exposed like a stripper who just had a pasty malfunction.

I sat watching those two third and forth down plays with my mouth agape. I looked like Dom Capers as those two plays unfolded. You're supposed to put your team in the position to win the damn game, not try some trickeration when it's freakin' not necessary. Want some trickeration, Kubes? How about you prepare your team to expect onsides kicks? How's about that?

I'M DONE with Kubiak. D-U-N. DONE. This guy is a joke of a head coach.

Gotta rep ya. I'm tired of grooming Denver's next HC. I'm tired of one of the worst defenses in the league. I'm just tired of it all.

nunusguy
12-21-2008, 07:02 PM
I'm as confused and frustrated by these calls by Kubiak as everyone else ?
I'd guess his explanation may be something along the lines of him needing to have one of those sessions about staring at himself in the mirror because he's to blame just like everyone else on the roster is.
The real deal here is that the game is meaningless. We're not going anyway this year. And we improved our position in the Draft by losing this meaningless game.
My real concern is that Kubiak might make a bonehead call in a game down the line that has real consequences ? Like playoff consequences ?

IlliniJen
12-21-2008, 07:07 PM
I would have done the same thing. 9 out of 10 times we would have caught one of those, but I really doubt we would have dome anything against a goalline D unless we gave it to Leach again. We need a bruiser type back.

9 out of 10 times? Did you even SEE the forth down play? They had two, count 'em, TWO wideouts in the end zone with all 4 or 5 Raider secondaries dropping back. They didn't even have a TE release and for a third receiving option!

It's half a yard. HALF A YARD. I'll power-I that all day and run Slaton behind Vonte Leach. Or do as spurstexanstros suggested and run the sweep. Slaton has had a lot of success running to the outside. But we hardly use that play all day.

I just don't understand why the coaches insist on putting the Texans in situations that don't make sense considering we have a higher probability of success if we do the exact opposite of what they call.

GuerillaBlack
12-21-2008, 07:09 PM
I'm getting tired of Kubiak as well. I want a tough coach that puts a fire under his players. Give me Bill Cowher. Please come to Houston Bill Cowher.

IlliniJen
12-21-2008, 07:14 PM
The onsides kick has become a high percentage play against the Texans.

Welcome to the dark side, Jen. It's been lonely over here.

I am there, Lucky. I have come to a state of acceptance of my disdain for Kubes, Smith, et al. I love my Texans and I have an almost unreasonable and inexplicable belief that Schaub is still our QB of the future, but I'm sick of the coaches. I want proven winners now, not coordinators who are making a move up the food chain. Experiment is now over.

Back the Brinks truck up and make a play for Cowher. Promise him 40 virgins and a city named after him. Shower him with whatever he wants. How could he possibly view Cleveland as a better job given the players on each team over the Texans, if Cleveland is truly the job he's eyeing?

joedinkle
12-21-2008, 07:19 PM
I don't believe he was injured, but at the end of the game, he was on the sideline. what's up?

stingray
12-21-2008, 07:19 PM
I don't believe he was injured, but at the end of the game, he was on the sideline. what's up?

Because they gave up...

threetoedpete
12-21-2008, 07:23 PM
You know I get blasted a lot for being "negative". this is why. I'm not panicking this evening. I'm not making knee jerk posts....Did back in October for sure.

It was a classic trap game....we came in high with a four game win streak....they have been our female dogs for three games in a row. I didn't post it but I had a feeling. After the onside kick they never could get over the hump. Not just the coach but the whole team.

Gotta take the good and bad with Kubiak. He's not a very good field general coach yet. Clock management issues have been going on for three years now. Either he feels there isn't a problem or he doesn't know how to fix it. Raiders were fired up. And the team, including the coaching staff, is to young and inexperienced to over come the storm.

And up yours General John.....I look at things the way they are not the way I want them to be. Negative is leading a whole town down a prim rose path when you either don't know any better or too evil to give a damn. How do you like the warm fuzzy's this evening son ?

Brando
12-21-2008, 08:08 PM
...........

mattieuk
12-21-2008, 08:10 PM
Wanted to at the time, and still wish we had now. Think it was a major ****-up. Ok...you're so close, but I'll take one possession game, over a two anyday.

ArlingtonTexan
12-21-2008, 08:43 PM
No faith in his offensive line and running back. That's sad. We had two shots at gaining a yard and we conceded that we couldn't get it on the ground TWICE.

One of things that had happened during the last few weeks was that we did things that good teams do...i.e. run or pass when every one in the building knew you needed to run or pass. NFL players and coaches are not "surprised" that often when you run in a passing situation,etc.


Still overall, Kubiak's play calling became pretty predictable in this game. Predictable in a non-agressive bad way that is. Not looking a game log, but it seemed like we passed on 1st down and then ran or made conservative pass on 2nd down. IMO, Oakland is a team you play attitude football against versus get cute and try to trick them. Last week we stood up to a bully, but this week we falled to punch a coward in the mouth.

edo783
12-21-2008, 08:52 PM
Last week we stood up to a bully, but this week we falled to punch a coward in the mouth.

Yup, we had very little emotion IMO. Without emotion, you don't take it to the other guy.

eriadoc
12-22-2008, 01:11 AM
No faith in his offensive line and running back. That's sad. We had two shots at gaining a yard and we conceded that we couldn't get it on the ground TWICE.

That is it in a nutshell. I love Slaton, but when this team really NEEDS a yard, or when the other team knows we are going to have to run the ball, it doesn't get done. Kubiak doesn't trust his OL and he doesn't trust his RBs to get that tough yard. And why would he? They've spent most of the season demonstrating that when they really have to pick it up, they can't.

eriadoc
12-22-2008, 01:13 AM
One of things that had happened during the last few weeks was that we did things that good teams do...i.e. run or pass when every one in the building knew you needed to run or pass. NFL players and coaches are not "surprised" that often when you run in a passing situation,etc.


Still overall, Kubiak's play calling became pretty predictable in this game. Predictable in a non-agressive bad way that is. Not looking a game log, but it seemed like we passed on 1st down and then ran or made conservative pass on 2nd down. IMO, Oakland is a team you play attitude football against versus get cute and try to trick them. Last week we stood up to a bully, but this week we falled to punch a coward in the mouth.

I'm not sure I agree with that assessment much. The Raiders dared us to run and we didn't get it done. They weren't stacking the box much, and we still didn't run the ball well. Slaton was met in the backfield all day. The Raiders DL just whipped the tar out of our OL. Kubiak just reverted to the one thing we do well, which is pass.

Tedc
12-22-2008, 05:45 AM
To add insult to injury on fourth down, Pubes burned a timeout only to go back to another passing play to the same receiver as third down.

I am with the intelligent people here. "Power I" the hell out of them on third or fourth and inches.

Tedc
12-22-2008, 05:47 AM
I'm not sure I agree with that assessment much. The Raiders dared us to run and we didn't get it done. They weren't stacking the box much, and we still didn't run the ball well. Slaton was met in the backfield all day. The Raiders DL just whipped the tar out of our OL. Kubiak just reverted to the one thing we do well, which is pass.

We only ran Slaton 18 times!! He does most of his damage late when the defense is tired.

BuffaloglennTX
12-22-2008, 07:08 AM
I'm as confused and frustrated by these calls by Kubiak as everyone else ?
I'd guess his explanation may be something along the lines of him needing to have one of those sessions about staring at himself in the mirror because he's to blame just like everyone else on the roster is.
The real deal here is that the game is meaningless. We're not going anyway this year. And we improved our position in the Draft by losing this meaningless game.
My real concern is that Kubiak might make a bonehead call in a game down the line that has real consequences ? Like playoff consequences ?


Kind of like Jeff Fisher, who chose not to kick the field goal against the Texans last week? EVERY COACH MAKES DUMB DECISIONS! You guys are overreacting. You could also have real concerns that the Texans might fumble or miss a tackle at a crucial time. If they ran the ball on the third or fourth down play and didn't get it everyone would be saying they should have passed for the first down.

TimeKiller
12-22-2008, 07:14 AM
This game didn't matter. It didn't matter yesterday or the day before, or today, tomorrow...

Putting this game on Kubiak's calling plays is pretty pointless IMO.

BattleRedToro
12-22-2008, 07:16 AM
Kind of like Jeff Fisher, who chose not to kick the field goal against the Texans last week? EVERY COACH MAKES DUMB DECISIONS! You guys are overreacting. You could also have real concerns that the Texans might fumble or miss a tackle at a crucial time. If they ran the ball on the third or fourth down play and didn't get it everyone would be saying they should have passed for the first down.

Fisher chose not to attempt a long FG due to wind and the knowledgethat Bironas was unable to make FG's from that distance on that side of Reliant Stadium during pre-game practice.

That isn't the same as Kubiak not going for a run on 3rd and 1/2 Yard, when on 1st Down Slaton had run for 8 yards and then ran for 1 1/2 Yard on 2nd Down of the same series. The right play call at that point is some kind of run play on 3rd Down, followed by a FG attempt or another run on 4th Down if you don't convert on 3rd Down.

ArlingtonTexan
12-22-2008, 08:47 AM
This game didn't matter. It didn't matter yesterday or the day before, or today, tomorrow...

Putting this game on Kubiak's calling plays is pretty pointless IMO.

Well, games have not "mattered" since before Halloween.

HOU-TEX
12-22-2008, 09:00 AM
Re: 3rd and 1/2 a yard.

A quick hand off to Leach on third and short and this would be a non-issue. He did it the first time, so let the big guy eat!

I really like Kubiak, but will admit he makes his share of mistakes. Hell, all coaches make mistakes every now and then.

I understand Kubiak deserves some of the blame, but the players lost this game.

maddogmrb
12-22-2008, 09:03 AM
I would have done the same thing. 9 out of 10 times we would have caught one of those, but I really doubt we would have dome anything against a goalline D unless we gave it to Leach again. We need a bruiser type back.

I kinda agree with you. Everyone has been calling for a bruiser back all year and today in the 15th game of the season Vonta Leach gets his FIRST carry of the year! Yeah, that's utilizing your talent ..... ???

On the 2 short yardage plays, we/I always criticize Kubes for how conservative the offense gets in the red zone and so I can't be too critical of those calls. BOTTOM LINE IS THAT SCHAUB FAILED TO EXECUTE THE 4TH AND INCHES BY THROWING INTO TRIPLE COVERAGE.

Number19
12-22-2008, 09:29 AM
For whatever reason, our OL is incapable of grinding out yardage - getting those tough yards inside the Red Zone. Maybe they simply don't have the talent, maybe it's the blocking scheme.

These guys are also giving up too much pressure on too many passing plays.

If we had run the ball twice and not gotten the TD, fans would be complaining. If we had run the ball once and passed once, and not gotten the TD, fans would be complaining. If we had passed the ball once and run the ball once and not gotten the TD, fans would be complaining. Fans would be complaining no matter what Kubes would have called, if we did not get the TD.

Bottom line, the coaches don't run the plays. Our linemen are simply failing to get the job done.

We don't have the continuity, in both players and coaching. So, do we give them one more year, as several commentators have suggested will happen, to get their shit together?

For the record, I was wanting the Power I formation, with a quick handoff to Leach.

Vinny
12-22-2008, 10:41 AM
I just wonder why Kubiak didn't take the gimmie fg and make this a one score game. We had the ball a couple of times after that but it was hopeless at that point since we still needed two scores. Perhaps Brown had dead legs and he was saving Kris for da bearz.

Texan_Bill
12-22-2008, 10:55 AM
A quick hand off to Leach on third and short and this would be a non-issue. He did it the first time, so let the big guy eat!

I really like Kubiak, but will admit he makes his share of mistakes. Hell, all coaches make mistakes every now and then.

I understand Kubiak deserves some of the blame, but the players lost this game.

QFT... Especially the last statement.

TimeKiller
12-22-2008, 10:56 AM
Well, games have not "mattered" since before Halloween.

True, but we're talking about this specific one. Really, if we're going to start pointing fingers we should still be pointing at Richard Smith and his defense. They were atrocious still. I can't believe the talk about letting him off the hook for another year has been circulating AT ALL but hopefully this game puts everything back into perspective for all eyes.

Just don't be mad about it...because the games haven't mattered for a while now...The knee-jerk posts are funny with how out-of-control some people's emotions get without any real perspective.

Double Barrel
12-22-2008, 11:11 AM
I just wonder why Kubiak didn't take the gimmie fg and make this a one score game. We had the ball a couple of times after that but it was hopeless at that point since we still needed two scores. Perhaps Brown had dead legs and he was saving Kris for da bearz.

I was wondering the same thing. Kubiak seems to think too much instead of just taking the points and living for the next drive. He did the same thing in the first game against the Titans. It could have been a one score game by the end of that one, too. But Kubiak seems to call plays based upon potential impact instead of looking at percentages.

Meet the new Texans. Same as the old Texans. We got fooled again.

disaacks3
12-22-2008, 11:16 AM
I just wonder why Kubiak didn't take the gimmie fg and make this a one score game. We had the ball a couple of times after that but it was hopeless at that point since we still needed two scores. Perhaps Brown had dead legs and he was saving Kris for da bearz. :mcnugget::spit:

By not even TRYING to run on 3rd OR 4th, the team was doomed to fail. If you can't convert 1/2 a yard on two attempts against the Raiders "D", then your guys can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

ATX
12-22-2008, 11:22 AM
If they had run it twice in a row and got stuffed both times I could have lived with that alot easier than throwing 2 passes in the middle of the field into double and triple coverage. What gets me is on the 3rd down, they sent Slaton out of the backfield into motion letting the Raiders know we weren't going to run it. Our only options at that point were a QB sneak or a pass when we could have made the Raiders atleast defend against a possible run if Slaton were in the backfield.

Joe Texan
12-22-2008, 11:25 AM
Gary Kubiak has a real problem with running the football when we need to run the football, need I mention the colts game when we passed er fumbled our way to a loss. Not only did we lose it the first time the very next play from the offence was the exact same play jut to fumble it again.

Kubiak is on the Bubble and he should be, his record is terrible and his play calling and time keeping need to be relearned. Come on Gary turn the stinking page over and use some plays on the back PLEEEEEEASE.

Porky
12-22-2008, 11:30 AM
Gary Kubiak has a real problem with running the football when we need to run the football, need I mention the colts game when we passed er fumbled our way to a loss. Not only did we lose it the first time the very next play from the offence was the exact same play jut to fumble it again.

Kubiak is on the Bubble and he should be, his record is terrible and his play calling and time keeping need to be relearned. Come on Gary turn the stinking page over and use some plays on the back PLEEEEEEASE.

That's one of your best posts Joe. I agree.

Motioning Slaton out of the backfield was dumb imo, as then the Raiders know it's either a sneak or a pass. It didn't catch them offguard at all.

I probably would have kicked at that point, but I was wavering. But, for the love of God if you are going to go for it in that situation take the high percentage play - either a sneak or a give to Slaton. Those have a much higher chance of success than some throw into the end zone in shuch short space.

Personally, I would have given to Slaton on 3rd and either kicked, or done it again on 4th. I mean if your line can't create a 1/2 yard in two plays you don't deserve to win anyway. Instead, Kubes pulled the rug out from his players to even try it. What kind of message does that send?

HOU-TEX
12-22-2008, 11:38 AM
Leach had the best chance of anyone to get in the endzone. I love what Slaton brings to the team, but a short yard/goal line back he is not.

Brandon Jacobs is the definition of the type of back needed. His overtime TD was impressive. HE actually moved the pile into the endzone without having to rely on his Olinemen to push him in.

Vinny
12-22-2008, 11:44 AM
I just wonder why Kubiak didn't take the gimmie fg and make this a one score game. We had the ball a couple of times after that but it was hopeless at that point since we still needed two scores. Perhaps Brown had dead legs and he was saving Kris for da bearz.I was wondering the same thing. Kubiak seems to think too much instead of just taking the points and living for the next drive. He did the same thing in the first game against the Titans. It could have been a one score game by the end of that one, too. But Kubiak seems to call plays based upon potential impact instead of looking at percentages.

Meet the new Texans. Same as the old Texans. We got fooled again.a good friend told me at a previous game that he wished that Kubiak would stop trying to be the smartest guy in the room. I think it fits here too.

HoustonFrog
12-22-2008, 11:53 AM
I'm late to the party but I always like a play action play here and there so I actually could see the throw on 3rd down when they are expecting run. But that is knowing that you have two downs to get an inch. After that play fails you get the inch with a Sneak or Leach dive and get 4 more downs. Plain and simple. 3ed down was your shot. 4th down they played soft at the line and you should just take the downs.

If you want my Kubes perspective it was ANOTHER game with him apologizing afterward. That is about 6 or more this year...that is 4-5 too many.

Texan_Bill
12-22-2008, 11:54 AM
Re: 3rd and 1/2 a yard.


Why would you kick the field goal on 3rd down? :stirpot:


Seriously though, I didn't have a problem with the 3rd down call as much as I did the 4th down play. First, the pass play and second, only sending two receivers out... Brainfart on Kubiak.

I would also like to say that the players should be held accountable for having allowed themselves to be in a hole - where it came down to needing two scores late in the 4th..

GP
12-22-2008, 11:55 AM
This was one of those "Kubiak sticks his head in the sand" games.

I felt like Schaub was fighting against a strong current that he wasn't going to be able to swim against. The playcalling was in stark contrast to the past two games.

Andre Johnson knows that if he is involved early, good things happen for the whole offense: Walter gets the ball, OD gets the ball, Slaton runs easier. In the past two games, the ball was fed to AJ early and often. In this game, we ran AJ down the field, they covered him perfectly. Why not jack it out to him on a quick slant, or a bubble screen, or any other combination of quick pass plays? Kubiak continued to run Schaub back on 7-step dropbacks, AJ deep down the field (being covered well) and the OL looked awful getting Schaub hurried and touched too much.

Schaub was not set up for success by the coaches.

Kubiak has a problem of getting too CUTE. The things that worked in the past four games? Apparently thrown out, with Kubiak taking a stroll into the deep forest in search of new, exciting things that he wanted to try...just to see if it would work. Because, after all, we did those other things well...let's see if we can do something else.

Kubiak, Kubiak, Kubiak. Like the old country saying goes: Just dance with the one who brung ya'. AJ makes everything better. This game is like the first Titans game where we didn't get it to AJ early enough, and then tried to force-feed it to him at the end of the game.

Hopefully we can go back to what got us the four-game win streak. Hopefully we can get a win at home next Sunday and pull off 8-8. OL and RB need help in rounds 1 and 2. Defense for the rest of the draft. Grab our token QB in round 6 or 7. Cut him when regular season begins. LOL.

281
12-22-2008, 12:03 PM
look, it's this simple:

if it's 3rd/4th and inches and you're in the opposing team's territory, you do a QB sneak. period. no ifs, ands, or buts about it. if your offensive line can't achieve any forward progress in that situation, you probably don't have any business winning the game anyway.

Vinny
12-22-2008, 12:12 PM
look, it's this simple:

if it's 3rd/4th and inches and you're in the opposing team's territory, you do a QB sneak. period. no ifs, ands, or buts about it. if your offensive line can't achieve any forward progress in that situation, you probably don't have any business winning the game anyway.

Hard to sneak behind Myers...dude is just can't hold his ground in short yardage. I was joking in a previous game that I'd rather us find a good short yardage center than a short yardage back...but I'm not real sure that is much of a joke anymore.

FILO_girl
12-22-2008, 12:13 PM
I am there, Lucky. I have come to a state of acceptance of my disdain for Kubes, Smith, et al. I love my Texans and I have an almost unreasonable and inexplicable belief that Schaub is still our QB of the future, but I'm sick of the coaches. I want proven winners now, not coordinators who are making a move up the food chain. Experiment is now over.

Back the Brinks truck up and make a play for Cowher. Promise him 40 virgins and a city named after him. Shower him with whatever he wants. How could he possibly view Cleveland as a better job given the players on each team over the Texans, if Cleveland is truly the job he's eyeing?
Why does everyone want the Spitter? I admit he is good, several coaches are good...why does everyone mention him?

SouthSideTexan
12-22-2008, 12:13 PM
Brandon Jacobs is the definition of the type of back needed. His overtime TD was impressive. HE actually moved the pile into the endzone without having to rely on his Olinemen to push him in.


I agree with you 100%. We need a bruiser running back that we can rely on to plow over the opponent and make a first down when we need it. Hmmmmmm....maybe we can trade our first round picks to the Giants for the next couple of years for Jacobs......Ditka did it. It turned out good for the Saints......right.....huhhhhh. (Just Kidding)

Hooston Texan
12-22-2008, 12:15 PM
I kinda agree with you. Everyone has been calling for a bruiser back all year and today in the 15th game of the season Vonta Leach gets his FIRST carry of the year! Yeah, that's utilizing your talent ..... ???

On the 2 short yardage plays, we/I always criticize Kubes for how conservative the offense gets in the red zone and so I can't be too critical of those calls. BOTTOM LINE IS THAT SCHAUB FAILED TO EXECUTE THE 4TH AND INCHES BY THROWING INTO TRIPLE COVERAGE.

Q: Why did Schaub throw into triple coverage?
A: Because the only other receiver the Texans had on the route was quadruple-covered.

Kubes was guessing run blitz, so he called a max-protect play with two receivers in the route. Idiotic and cowardly call. When you need a foot, your offense should be able to get it regardless of what the defense calls. Instead, Kubes makes a call that leaves him helpless if the opposing coordinator makes the right call. By dropping into coverage, the Raiders hit the bulls-eye. Game over.

281
12-22-2008, 12:15 PM
Hard to sneak behind Myers...dude is just can't hold his ground in short yardage. I was joking in a previous game that I'd rather us find a good short yardage center than a short yardage back...but I'm not real sure that is much of a joke anymore.

this is very true... but i think we've actually had a pretty good conversion rate running the QB sneak in inches situations this season. i could be mistaken though.

IlliniJen
12-22-2008, 12:48 PM
Why does everyone want the Spitter? I admit he is good, several coaches are good...why does everyone mention him?

One word: cajones. That dude brings a football attitude, plain and simple, and if there's one thing sorely and blatantly lacking on the Texans, it's a football attitude of stomping a mudhole in their opponent's ass and walking it dry. We seem like a "finesse" team without the finesse and with even less personality than what most droll finesse teams have.

A hard-nosed, smashmouth coach often has a trickle down effect on his players. They'll go out there and blow people up and play tough and lay a hit on someone who tries to hurt their quarterback. Right now I see a couple players taking pride in how they play the game, but there's not a team attitude of toughness.

I wish every freakin' Texan had Slaton's attitude and guts. He fights. He doesn't go down. That makes a statement. A tough coach can actually coach that into his players. We don't have any tough coaches. Kubiak is a guy who thinks he can just bring his brains to the table (and what a huge paper lion his brain is turning out to be) and leave the guts at home.

I could take a 8-8 team much better if they were selling out each game and opposing teams knew they were coming in to face a war against the Texans. Does anyone really fear taking a hit from anyone on our team? Feh.

HOU-TEX
12-22-2008, 01:24 PM
Hard to sneak behind Myers...dude is just can't hold his ground in short yardage. I was joking in a previous game that I'd rather us find a good short yardage center than a short yardage back...but I'm not real sure that is much of a joke anymore.

I'm sure you were already aware of this, but Schaub ran a sneak on a 4th and 1 earlier in the game and gained 2 yards directly behind Meyers. However, I do agree with your overall assessment of him.

1-10-HOU 29 (10:17) 8-M.Schaub scrambles left end to HOU 37 for 8 yards (55-J.Alston).
2-2-HOU 37 (9:34) 20-S.Slaton up the middle to HOU 37 for no gain (28-Gi.Wilson, 98-J.Richardson).
3-2-HOU 37 (8:54) 20-S.Slaton up the middle to HOU 38 for 1 yard (28-Gi.Wilson).
4-1-HOU 38 (8:23) 8-M.Schaub up the middle to HOU 40 for 2 yards (Team).

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29764&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2008&week=REG16

ObsiWan
12-22-2008, 01:27 PM
Why does everyone want the Spitter? I admit he is good, several coaches are good...why does everyone mention him?

That's an excellent question.
Cowher inherited a damn good team that Chuck Knoll had put together. The hard-nosed, win with defense and a strong running game attitude that was/is the Steelers was installed by Knoll. All Cowher had to do is not screw it up. He's' like Gruden in my mind. He took something someone else had built and won ONE Super Bowl with them. Then couldn't repeat it. Didn't they go like 8-8 after Bettis retired? Then he quit. I'm sorry, but Cowher ain't all that in my mind.

I wonder what Cowher could have done with the cast of sorry characters Kubiak was saddled with when he took over the Texans.

MannyFresh
12-22-2008, 01:34 PM
Matt Cassel and a east coast coach thats all business with strict discipline ala Cower, Parcells, Billajerk, Jimmy Johnson, someone like that.....they might not be liked, but they're respected head coaches. Parcells is a prime example of not well liked coach who instills a lot of discipline...don't think so? Look how the Cowboys are now with laid back Phillips who is probably gone now and we don't need a coach like Wade Phillips.

ArlingtonTexan
12-22-2008, 01:36 PM
True, but we're talking about this specific one. Really, if we're going to start pointing fingers we should still be pointing at Richard Smith and his defense. They were atrocious still. I can't believe the talk about letting him off the hook for another year has been circulating AT ALL but hopefully this game puts everything back into perspective for all eyes.

Just don't be mad about it...because the games haven't mattered for a while now...The knee-jerk posts are funny with how out-of-control some people's emotions get without any real perspective.

:goodpost: I think more than the losing itself, I am tired this part of what losing does to a fan base.

Vinny
12-22-2008, 02:26 PM
That's an excellent question.
Cowher inherited a damn good team that Chuck Knoll had put together. The hard-nosed, win with defense and a strong running game attitude that was/is the Steelers was installed by Knoll. All Cowher had to do is not screw it up. He's' like Gruden in my mind. He took something someone else had built and won ONE Super Bowl with them. Then couldn't repeat it. Didn't they go like 8-8 after Bettis retired? Then he quit. I'm sorry, but Cowher ain't all that in my mind.

I wonder what Cowher could have done with the cast of sorry characters Kubiak was saddled with when he took over the Texans.I've had too much coffee this morning but get the name right at least. To credit Cowher's success to Chuck Noll is ridiculous...Do you think Terry Bradshaw, Mean Joe Green and Lynn Swann played all that well under Bill Cowher? your spin is humorous though.

Tedc
12-22-2008, 02:31 PM
That's an excellent question.
Cowher inherited a damn good team that Chuck Knoll had put together. The hard-nosed, win with defense and a strong running game attitude that was/is the Steelers was installed by Knoll. All Cowher had to do is not screw it up. He's' like Gruden in my mind. He took something someone else had built and won ONE Super Bowl with them. Then couldn't repeat it. Didn't they go like 8-8 after Bettis retired? Then he quit. I'm sorry, but Cowher ain't all that in my mind.

I wonder what Cowher could have done with the cast of sorry characters Kubiak was saddled with when he took over the Texans.

Wow!!

HoustonFrog
12-22-2008, 02:35 PM
I've had too much coffee this morning but get the name right at least. To credit Cowher's success to Chuck Noll is ridiculous...Do you think Terry Bradshaw, Mean Joe Green and Lynn Swann played all that well under Bill Cowher? your spin is humorous though.

I agree. Despite my hate for them in the 70s I respected the heck out of the Steelers under Cowher. He drafted well every year and they constantly found guys to fit the system. There was a 2 year span where they had every injury imaginable and they still filled in guys and made it to the playoffs. They were consistently good. It's ridiculous to think that he some how lucked into his position and just rode it for 15 years..lol. That's asinine

Dread-Head
12-22-2008, 02:39 PM
Cower is a great coach and rebuilt that team when Knoll left. He's not a caretaker coach like Barry "Auto pilot" Switzer who took someone else's team to a superbowl and took credit for Neil O'Donnel for being an untalented High School Quarterback who some how slipped through the cracks and made it to the NFL to put on a black and gold uniform and hand Dallas what should have been the 5th Steeler superbowl win. Cower's one mistake was not beating Neil O'Donnell to DEATH after the ONLY Superbowl loss in Steeler history when that sorry punk threw three interceptions to the SAME GUY!

Texan_Bill
12-22-2008, 02:41 PM
It's ridiculous to think that he some how lucked into his position an just rode it for 15 years..lol. That's asinine

I don't know about all that...

Signed,
Charley "I lucked into a job whenever Bobby Beathard went to San Diego" Casserly

Double Barrel
12-22-2008, 02:43 PM
That's an excellent question.
Cowher inherited a damn good team that Chuck Knoll had put together. The hard-nosed, win with defense and a strong running game attitude that was/is the Steelers was installed by Knoll. All Cowher had to do is not screw it up. He's' like Gruden in my mind. He took something someone else had built and won ONE Super Bowl with them. Then couldn't repeat it. Didn't they go like 8-8 after Bettis retired? Then he quit. I'm sorry, but Cowher ain't all that in my mind.

I wonder what Cowher could have done with the cast of sorry characters Kubiak was saddled with when he took over the Texans.


Huh? :um:

Cowher didn't win the Super Bowl until 2005. He took over the team in 1992, thirteen years before winning a championship.

Do you honestly think that there were many Knoll players left over after thirteen seasons? Please add a sarcasm disclaimer if that was your intent, because I'm not catching it if that was your point.

In his 15 seasons, Cowher has compiled a 161-99-1, including playoff games. Under his stewardship, the Steelers have won eight division titles, earned 10 playoff berths, advanced to the conference championship game six times, appeared in two Super Bowl games and won one.

Source (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2720242)

yeah, 161 wins ain't all that....riiiiiiiight. :ok:

HOU-TEX
12-22-2008, 02:46 PM
Bill Cowher is an excellent coach, but I'd like to think I had something to do with it.

Signed,

Dick Lebeau

:winky:

Texan_Bill
12-22-2008, 02:47 PM
The constant about the Steelers isn't Noll or Cowher, it's the Rooney family.

Brando
12-22-2008, 03:03 PM
I'll throw this out there.......


Before the Steelers won the last Super Bowl, Cowher was known as a coach that couldn't win the big game. It took him 13 seasons to get over that hump. The Steelers also got lucky that Vanderjagt missed the game tying FG and the QB had to make a game saving tackle. Like they say though, it's better to be lucky than good. Again the play on the field makes a coach look better. Add to the fact that the officiating in the SB against the Seahawks was clearly one sided.


http://www.theworldlink.com/content/articles/2006/01/16/sports/sports06.jpg

http://archive.profootballtalk.com/SteelersZebra.jpg


At the end of the day, he is a good coach that I wouldn't mind having IF the Kubiak experiment doesn't work. It's still too early, he'll get 1 more season.

HoustonFrog
12-22-2008, 03:29 PM
Cower is a great coach and rebuilt that team when Knoll left. He's not a caretaker coach like Barry "Auto pilot" Switzer who took someone else's team to a superbowl and took credit for Neil O'Donnel for being an untalented High School Quarterback who some how slipped through the cracks and made it to the NFL to put on a black and gold uniform and hand Dallas what should have been the 5th Steeler superbowl win. Cower's one mistake was not beating Neil O'Donnell to DEATH after the ONLY Superbowl loss in Steeler history when that sorry punk threw three interceptions to the SAME GUY!

Come on now, let's not get off topic. They weren't exactly dominating the game even with Neil and he got them there. That is a sorry excuse. There is no guarantee of any win even if he didn't throw the picks. Of course my TCU breathren Larry Brown didn't exactly deserve MVP.

HoustonFrog
12-22-2008, 03:31 PM
I don't know about all that...

Signed,
Charley "I lucked into a job whenever Bobby Beathard went to San Diego" Casserly

Now that is a different story............................

Anyways..lets get back to the play call on 3rd down being good and the 4th down one being asinine.:foottap:

Texan_Bill
12-22-2008, 03:34 PM
Now that is a different story............................

Anyways..lets get back to the play call on 3rd down being good and the 4th down one being asinine.:foottap:

Throwing on 4th doesn't bother me nearly as much as only sending 2 recievers out for that play.

Joe Texan
12-22-2008, 03:48 PM
Though Kubes is on the Bubble He is still the coach and his homework is right in front of him. Review all of this past year and Improve. He needs a real OC and a real DC and he needs a real Time clock guy and a real Replay guy. He needs this because he needs to hand the plays over to his OC and work on doing what a coach should be doing, Winning.

HoustonFrog
12-22-2008, 04:06 PM
Throwing on 4th doesn't bother me nearly as much as only sending 2 recievers out for that play.

It bothered me altogether after a TO. As I said earlier, I like play action when you have a play to play with. They had 2 downs to get inches. 3rd down was a perfect shot. After that just get the inches and you have 4 downs to again play around with. Wanting it all when you could reload was just a horrible move. Plus they expected a runblitz on 4th and they never came up..they played soft..so they should have changed it.

Texan_Bill
12-22-2008, 04:25 PM
It bothered me altogether after a TO. As I said earlier, I like play action when you have a play to play with. They had 2 downs to get inches. 3rd down was a perfect shot. After that just get the inches and you have 4 downs to again play around with. Wanting it all when you could reload was just a horrible move. Plus they expected a runblitz on 4th and they never came up..they played soft..so they should have changed it.

Personally, what I wanted to happen on 4th down was to spread everyone out... Wide.... Come to the line of scrimmage and bark out signals. If they don't jump by the time the play clock is under say 6 or 7 seconds (because at that point the defense softens up a bit figuring you are just trying to draw them off), then go on a silent count with Schaub up the middle.


Okay, maybe not but I think I froze part of my brain between yesterday and today.

HoustonFrog
12-22-2008, 05:39 PM
Personally, what I wanted to happen on 4th down was to spread everyone out... Wide.... Come to the line of scrimmage and bark out signals. If they don't jump by the time the play clock is under say 6 or 7 seconds (because at that point the defense softens up a bit figuring you are just trying to draw them off), then go on a silent count with Schaub up the middle.


Okay, maybe not but I think I froze part of my brain between yesterday and today.

That would have been good too!

Texan_Bill
12-22-2008, 05:42 PM
That would have been good too!

So now you're advocating bramage to my dain?? :bat:

maddogmrb
12-22-2008, 06:14 PM
Q: Why did Schaub throw into triple coverage?
A: Because the only other receiver the Texans had on the route was quadruple-covered.

Kubes was guessing run blitz, so he called a max-protect play with two receivers in the route. Idiotic and cowardly call. When you need a foot, your offense should be able to get it regardless of what the defense calls. Instead, Kubes makes a call that leaves him helpless if the opposing coordinator makes the right call. By dropping into coverage, the Raiders hit the bulls-eye. Game over.

So, you're saying that we only had 2 receivers on the play and they occupied 7 defenders leaving only 4 in the vicinity of the LOS at the goal line??? Wasn't what I saw....

There is ALWAYS cat and mouse going on between the OC and the DC on EVERY play. If we had run the ball and they stacked the box and stuffed it, you would be saying the same thing. Bottom line is Matt didn't execute the play well.

HoustonFrog
12-22-2008, 07:42 PM
So now you're advocating bramage to my dain?? :bat:

The play but that might be comical short term.:toast2:

Hooston Texan
12-22-2008, 09:01 PM
So, you're saying that we only had 2 receivers on the play and they occupied 7 defenders leaving only 4 in the vicinity of the LOS at the goal line??? Wasn't what I saw....

There is ALWAYS cat and mouse going on between the OC and the DC on EVERY play. If we had run the ball and they stacked the box and stuffed it, you would be saying the same thing. Bottom line is Matt didn't execute the play well.

Watch the play again. Only two receivers in the pattern. Five guys rushed, but one of the rushers actually just went up to meet Slaton on the fake (had Slaton gone out to the pattern, he would have covered him). Slaton and the two TEs lined up on the near side (Schaub's left) stayed in to block.

That left AJ and Walter running the routes. AJ went to the corner but was blanketed. Walter dragged across the endzone and Schaub tried to thread the needle, but that was the only throw he could make. The other three eligible receivers were in pass protect.

When the Raiders didn't run-blitz, that play was dead. When you need a few inches, you don't get cute in such a way that the opposing coach (as opposed to the opposing players) can stop the play if he guesses right. The Raiders' coach guessed right.

There was plenty that Schaub did wrong yesterday, but that particular play was not a "failure to execute" (as you called it in your original post) on his part.

infantrycak
12-22-2008, 10:05 PM
Bottom line is Matt didn't execute the play well.

OK so lay out the proper execution for the QB on that play. It's cute to say he didn't execute and easy when the play didn't work. What specifically was wrong? Should the ball have been two inches to the right? Should he have masse'd the ball in? Inquiring minds would like to know.

run-david-run
12-23-2008, 01:40 AM
So, you're saying that we only had 2 receivers on the play and they occupied 7 defenders leaving only 4 in the vicinity of the LOS at the goal line??? Wasn't what I saw....

There is ALWAYS cat and mouse going on between the OC and the DC on EVERY play. If we had run the ball and they stacked the box and stuffed it, you would be saying the same thing. Bottom line is Matt didn't execute the play well.

Did you see the play? AJ ran something resembling a slow-motion curl route while Walter was triple covered. If ever there was a play doomed to failure, that was it.

maddogmrb
12-23-2008, 08:16 AM
Watch the play again. Only two receivers in the pattern. Five guys rushed, but one of the rushers actually just went up to meet Slaton on the fake (had Slaton gone out to the pattern, he would have covered him). Slaton and the two TEs lined up on the near side (Schaub's left) stayed in to block.

That left AJ and Walter running the routes. AJ went to the corner but was blanketed. Walter dragged across the endzone and Schaub tried to thread the needle, but that was the only throw he could make. The other three eligible receivers were in pass protect.

When the Raiders didn't run-blitz, that play was dead. When you need a few inches, you don't get cute in such a way that the opposing coach (as opposed to the opposing players) can stop the play if he guesses right. The Raiders' coach guessed right.

There was plenty that Schaub did wrong yesterday, but that particular play was not a "failure to execute" (as you called it in your original post) on his part.


Well, I guess if that's how it really went down, I missed it. I was with 4 lovely ladies at Bayou City Wings watching the game so they might've distracted me a little on that play. :)

However, why throw into triple coverage? Why not scramble a little and see if something else develops. I know we've criticized our QB's in the past for holding on to the ball too long, but yesterday it seemed to me that Matt was throwing the ball away a little too quickly on some plays. Self preservation, I guess?