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Fox
12-16-2008, 11:18 AM
About halfway through the season this year I was fairly convinced this team needed another linebacker with the ability to make big plays. Greenwood was in the midst of another lackluster year, and the forum seemed to be kicking around ideas of either picking up a new WLB or a new MLB and shifting Demeco to the will. After seeing Adibi get some playtime I'm not necessarily convinced that we need to go out and use a high draft pick or expensive FA acquisition to replace Greenwood. Diles was our most productive linebacker prior to his injury, and his broken leg shouldn't prevent him from coming back 100% next year. I think the suspicion that Demeco hasn't been 100% healthy this year is most likely valid, but he still provides us solid play regardless. Adibi has some injury concerns, but when he's on the field he's very productive. The three of them give us a highly athletic but undersized group (Adibi - 6'2, 220; Diles 6'0, 240; Ryans 6'1, 250).

The point of the thread is to see what your thoughts are about moving forward with this group. Do you see Adibi starting in front of Greenwood from the beginning next year with Diles returning at SLB? Do we need to go get a high priced FA or blue chip prospect at LB to stiffen up our D? I'm happy to move forward with Diles, Ryans, and Adibi, and I wouldn't necessarily go out of the way to address this position before others such as DE and safety. On the other hand, Diles and Adibi were solid but not spectacular. I wouldn't pass up the chance at a great LB (a la Patrick Willis) if they were the BPA.
Thoughts on our LB corp moving forward?

BigBull17
12-16-2008, 11:24 AM
About halfway through the season this year I was fairly convinced this team needed another linebacker with the ability to make big plays. Greenwood was in the midst of another lackluster year, and the forum seemed to be kicking around ideas of either picking up a new WLB or a new MLB and shifting Demeco to the will. After seeing Adibi get some playtime I'm not necessarily convinced that we need to go out and use a high draft pick or expensive FA acquisition to replace Greenwood. Diles was our most productive linebacker prior to his injury, and his broken leg shouldn't prevent him from coming back 100% next year. I think the suspicion that Demeco hasn't been 100% healthy this year is most likely valid, but he still provides us solid play regardless. Adibi has some injury concerns, but when he's on the field he's very productive. The three of them give us a highly athletic but undersized group (Adibi - 6'2, 220; Diles 6'0, 240; Ryans 6'1, 250).

The point of the thread is to see what your thoughts are about moving forward with this group. Do you see Adibi starting in front of Greenwood from the beginning next year with Diles returning at SLB? Do we need to go get a high priced FA or blue chip prospect at LB to stiffen up our D? I'm happy to move forward with Diles, Ryans, and Adibi, and I wouldn't necessarily go out of the way to address this position before others such as DE and safety. On the other hand, Diles and Adibi were solid but not spectacular. I wouldn't pass up the chance at a great LB (a la Patrick Willis) if they were the BPA.
Thoughts on our LB corp moving forward?

Diles is ok, but OLB is a big need. We need to get more athletic. Diles is great special teams, and a good flexable back up, but he can be upgraded. We need guys who know how to blitz. I think thats what our guys do worst, is blitz. Coverage is another weakness. They also dont always tackle great. Greenwood is at risk of not making this team.

Vinny
12-16-2008, 11:29 AM
Greenwood is done here...he was awful off the bench Sunday. I think Diles, DeMeco and Adibi will be our starters next season.

BigBull17
12-16-2008, 11:31 AM
Greenwood is done here...he was awful off the bench Sunday. I think Diles, DeMeco and Adibi will be our starters next season.

I agree, but I dont think Diles and Adibi are SO good you dont look at OLB as something to be upgraded.

infantrycak
12-16-2008, 11:31 AM
Greenwood is done here...he was awful off the bench Sunday. I think Diles, DeMeco and Adibi will be our starters next season.

Should be. Adibi has outplayed him. 2009 is the last year of his contract and the Texans can create $4.77 mil of cap space by dumping him.

Hervoyel
12-16-2008, 11:32 AM
Wish we could get our hands on Derrick Johnson. Still Diles, Ryans, and Adibi is going to be better than anything we've seen this season so far. I'm pretty sure of that.

Vinny
12-16-2008, 11:33 AM
I agree, but I dont think Diles and Adibi are SO good you dont look at OLB as something to be upgraded.Early in the draft I see us looking at a DE, a S or a G/C before we look at linebacker. I honestly think we have our starters in place...heck, before Diles was injured he led the team in tackles, not Demeco.

disaacks3
12-16-2008, 11:45 AM
Greenwood is at risk of not making this team. Best news I've heard all day! Adibi is definitely a speed upgrade and looks to have reasonably good instincts as well.

gtexan02
12-16-2008, 11:49 AM
Diles is ok, but OLB is a big need. We need to get more athletic. Diles is great special teams, and a good flexable back up, but he can be upgraded. We need guys who know how to blitz. I think thats what our guys do worst, is blitz. Coverage is another weakness. They also dont always tackle great. Greenwood is at risk of not making this team.

Did you watch the games he played in? He was leading the team in tackles up until he got injured. he would have been the biggest surprise of the year if he hadn't gotten hurt

b0ng
12-16-2008, 11:54 AM
I agree, but I dont think Diles and Adibi are SO good you dont look at OLB as something to be upgraded.

It Could be upgraded but I think both diles and adibi play well enough that we aren't going to make a huge splash landing a bigtime OLB. Look for an upgrade along the DL or the Secondary (Specifically either S position) that would qualify as a big expenditure.

HOU-TEX
12-16-2008, 11:55 AM
Greenwood is done here...he was awful off the bench Sunday. I think Diles, DeMeco and Adibi will be our starters next season.

IMO, I still think we should look at LB on the first day if there's a top prospect still available at our spot.

Diles can play the run good, but I question his pass coverage. He's still young and inexperienced so he should improve.

Adibi's still a huge question mark for me. If he'd add another 10-15 pounds of muscle and stay healthy, he'd likely be pushing D-Ryans as our best LB.

Bentley's been impressive at times since Diles went down.

IMO, we should look at DE, OLB, S, G/C, CB

Texan_Bill
12-16-2008, 11:58 AM
DB's, DL's, LB's.... rinse and repeat.

HOU-TEX
12-16-2008, 12:02 PM
DB's, DL's, LB's.... rinse and repeat.

I agree. I know I've mentioned it quite often, but this draft should focus entirely of the defense. Maybe mix in a C/G somewhere in the 7 rounds, but the rest on defense. That way if SmithDC is still around for next season (Gag me!) the "not enough talent" BS can't be used as an excuse.

:texflag:

Wolf6151
12-16-2008, 12:05 PM
I think that the top DE's (Johnson and Orakpo) will be gone by the time we pick and Greg Hardy has some mental issues and will probably be available in the 2nd round. The only DT worthy of us picking in the 1st round is B.J. Raji but if he's not available then I'd like to see us take Aaron Curry SLB from Wake Forest. Curry would be a major upgrade over Diles and would add alot to our run support defense and to our pass coverage of TE's and RB's who seem to kill us over the middle. Defensive linemen also seem to have a very high bust factor and usually take a couple years to develope into a player worthy of their draft position if taken in the 1st round. I think our starting LB's next year should be WLB Xavier Adibi, MLB Demeco Ryans, and SLB Aaron Curry. Then take the best, fastest, meanest SS in the 2nd round (Chung, Cook, Hamlin, or Chancellor).

Goatcheese
12-16-2008, 12:15 PM
I'm excited to see Adibi Ryans and Diles get to play together.

That could be a really good linebacker corps.

Jackie Chiles
12-16-2008, 12:26 PM
If Diles comes back 100% I really like our LBing core. He would probably have a bit of a battle to retake his spot from Bentley who has played very well. Diles really impressed me with his ability to penetrate and get after runners, especially on plays to the outside. He is not polished in coverage but he made a great play against Indy getting that pick and I think he can become more than adequate in that area. All three are very young and we have bigger problems on the DL and at safety as far as I am concerned. I believe LB next year will be a strength of this team. Jettison Morlon, Bentley is the first backup at each position and bring up Coley to help out with ST. If there is someone in the draft that is just too good to pass up either take him or trade down but hopefully we find the value elsewhere.

mussop
12-16-2008, 12:27 PM
I think that the top DE's (Johnson and Orakpo) will be gone by the time we pick and Greg Hardy has some mental issues and will probably be available in the 2nd round. The only DT worthy of us picking in the 1st round is B.J. Raji but if he's not available then I'd like to see us take Aaron Curry SLB from Wake Forest. Curry would be a major upgrade over Diles and would add alot to our run support defense and to our pass coverage of TE's and RB's who seem to kill us over the middle. Defensive linemen also seem to have a very high bust factor and usually take a couple years to develope into a player worthy of their draft position if taken in the 1st round. I think our starting LB's next year should be WLB Xavier Adibi, MLB Demeco Ryans, and SLB Aaron Curry. Then take the best, fastest, meanest SS in the 2nd round (Chung, Cook, Hamlin, or Chancellor).

I would be shocked if Curry last until we pick. There is a thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56866) about who most likely will be available where we are most likely to be picking.

steelbtexan
12-16-2008, 12:42 PM
I would like to see us pick up solid veteran LB in FA (Mike Peterson) He can be had cheap.

We need to re-sign Bentley I have been very impressed with his solid play @ SAM. He also is a good ST guy & provides veteran leadership.

noxiousdog
12-16-2008, 12:58 PM
Early in the draft I see us looking at a DE, a S or a G/C before we look at linebacker. I honestly think we have our starters in place...heck, before Diles was injured he led the team in tackles, not Demeco.

I agree. You could even throw DT in the mix.

Mr teX
12-16-2008, 01:03 PM
We've got our guys.....

I don't think i can recall another player on the texans who everyone noticed when he got in the game except Adibi. Demeco maybe, but surely noone else after him. My guess it that he's going to be entrenched as a starter & will be fine, he just needs that 1 pro offseason under his belt to be able to put on a little more weight. another year of possibly being under the same scheme isn't gonna hurt him either. These were the main reasons Diles was able to emerge as a starter this past year & Adibi's route to getting better as a down in/out starter likely isn't going to be much different. I thought it was huge that he got some PT this year b/c now he knows what it's going to take to be a dominant player on this level like he was at VT.

Unlike Adibi, Diles didn't get much of any PT last year & i think that kinda of hurt what he might've been able to do this year but all in all still good upside for him. As long as he comes back 100%, he'll be a starter & finally do what everyone thinks he's capable of.


As for Meco, i don't think he's been hurt. his production maybe down but that might just be a side effect of him getting better talent around him & Mario emerging the way he has over the last couple of years.

Big Lou
12-16-2008, 01:16 PM
At the start of the year I felt like our top pick in the draft should have been an LB in the draft. However I think Adibi, Dile, and Ryans are a strong group overall. I would prefer to get a book end DE and a Playmaking Safety, and we would be set. We could use the depth at LB, but only if the right guy came along for the rights price would I even bother. Say like Bart Scott, except I don't think he fits our system.

dalemurphy
12-16-2008, 01:35 PM
Greenwood is done here...he was awful off the bench Sunday. I think Diles, DeMeco and Adibi will be our starters next season.

Also, I really like Bentley as a backup. He's versatile and very solid. I think he can play all three spots, though weakside may be a bit of a stretch for him.

I think I even like Chaun Thompson but he's been M.I.A. too much to say for sure.

threetoedpete
12-16-2008, 01:47 PM
Greenwood is done here...he was awful off the bench Sunday. I think Diles, DeMeco and Adibi will be our starters next season.

I'll be surprised if Greenwood makes it to OTAs. I know everyone likes the guy.
I know he is a good locker room guy. But it's fish or cut bait for this regime next year. And they know it too. Agreed with he starters. I think it is imperative that they bang a special teams guy like the Cal Senior or Freeman from the OSU. Bentley has played well. But he doesn't have the top end gear you're looking for in a play maker. He is a back up.

Well we're out of the elite first step guys picking in the twenties or so. Orakpo and Everett Brown should be off the board. Curry is going to go top ten or so. What will be on the board is a lot of talented lineman. I hate a safety pick in the first.

Orakpo may pull a Randy Moss and tumble because of his injury history and the production of the Texas guys d-lineman of late. But he isn't going to fall into the twenties.

badboy
12-16-2008, 02:06 PM
We are set with Diles, Ryan and Adibi. Bentley while not great is solid and looked good against Titans. Chaun Thompson I am not sure of and will not be surprised if Greenwood is back. That is not a commentary on his ability, just saying. A solid FS like William Moore
6'1" 220 and 4.45 in first and a 2nd round selection of Brandon Graham DE are what my goals are as of today. Of course how the college guys grade out prior to draft may allow a few to sneak in. Smith has been pretty good and pulling in guys in lower rounds such as Diles. I do not expect a pick before 5th if that on LB.

Ole Miss Texan
12-16-2008, 02:37 PM
I wouldn't mind an upgrade to our LB's but not at the expense of a higher rated player. Diles was absolutely awesome this year, and Adibi has looked great. I've been worried over Demeco's injury and his ability to get/stay healthy. Something is going to have to change over the next few season- we either NEED a bigger DT (NT) and have Amobi/TJ alternate or we NEED to get more athletic, quicker LB's. If we have an undersized DL, our LB's are going to get pounded and have shorter careers. Demeco may be the same weight as some other notable LB's... but he doesn't have the same frame. If we don't get a beefier DL and Demeco stays in the middle, I'm worried he's always going to have some lingering health issue. I'm not saying he's not a fighter b/c he'll be out there playing even if he's got a broken arm, but too many hits from the MJD's, Addai's, and White/Johnson's of the league/division are going to take a toll on him. I have been okay with moving Demeco outside if we can get the likes of a LB like P-Willie. We passed him up for the pure upside of Amobi... will we continue to gamble like that? (could be somewhat similar prospects like Mauluga and Spikes this year) although Curry for OLB would be a great addition.

I'm worried about Diles, too. He looked great, but the the bottom line is he's got a steel rod in his leg right now. I don't know about the recovery of anything like that but I find it doubtful he makes it back 100% next season, but that's just me. If he doesn't... or even if he does, he provides great depth and our LB's become the strength of our defense.

We've several options for players and positions to look at with our 1st rd pick this year. DT, DE, LB, S, CB, OG so I think we just need to focus on taking the best player available.

Porky
12-16-2008, 05:25 PM
Diles is adequate but he certainly isn't special in any way, shape or form. He isn't an impact player whatsoever. He's a guy who is around the ball and makes tackles - 5 yards down the field. He's undersized, not all that fast, but his instincts appear to be pretty good to me. All in all, an adequate starter or good backup. I mean let's face it - he lasted until round 7 for a reason AND he is coming off a broken leg.

In a pinch we can run Bentley out there, but he's not the answer either imo.

If someone is there on day one that can unseat these guys and be more of an impact player, I'm all for it myself.

As far as I am concerned, Adibi won the weakside spot. If someone truly *special* comes along, fine. But I think he can be a fine player for a long time, although I don't see special in him either.

Polo
12-16-2008, 05:29 PM
Diles is a beast. Well....He's really good IMHO...

Very strong...Can run with most TE's....And he makes plays on the opponents side of the ball....

Polo
12-16-2008, 05:32 PM
Ever since we drafted Adibi I felt like we needed to go DE in the upcoming draft...

My priority would be:

1)DE
2)RB
3)Interior Lineman
4)DB
5)LB

Fox
12-16-2008, 05:34 PM
We've several options for players and positions to look at with our 1st rd pick this year. DT, DE, LB, S, CB, OG so I think we just need to focus on taking the best player available.

Agree with this. I don't think we're hurting so badly at any one position that it must be upgraded immediately. I think we should approach our picks with a purely BPA mentality, take the player who's going to make an immediate impact on the field, regardless of position.

ATXtexanfan
12-16-2008, 05:57 PM
Diles is adequate but he certainly isn't special in any way, shape or form. He isn't an impact player whatsoever. He's a guy who is around the ball and makes tackles - 5 yards down the field. He's undersized, not all that fast, but his instincts appear to be pretty good to me. All in all, an adequate starter or good backup. I mean let's face it - he lasted until round 7 for a reason AND he is coming off a broken leg.

In a pinch we can run Bentley out there, but he's not the answer either imo.

If someone is there on day one that can unseat these guys and be more of an impact player, I'm all for it myself.

As far as I am concerned, Adibi won the weakside spot. If someone truly *special* comes along, fine. But I think he can be a fine player for a long time, although I don't see special in him either.

BINGO on diles, rest of the post speaks the truth.

Polo
12-16-2008, 05:58 PM
I mean let's face it - he lasted until round 7 for a reason AND he is coming off a broken leg.


Matt Cassel ????

Is that you ?????

ATXtexanfan
12-16-2008, 06:02 PM
highest rated defensive player (minus CB) is fine by me in the draft.

Polo
12-16-2008, 06:04 PM
I'd take the highest rated CB in a heart beat....

Polo
12-16-2008, 06:09 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41092&highlight=Greenwood+terrible

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38754&highlight=Greenwood+terrible


LOL @ some of y'a'l'l

Morlon didn't become terrible overnight....

b0ng
12-16-2008, 06:31 PM
I'd take the highest rated CB in a heart beat....

I'd reform that to, I'd take any highest rated defensive player available in a heart beat

281
12-16-2008, 11:00 PM
if he were somehow still on the board, my dream is for us to draft rey maualuga out of usc and move demeco to the outside, since his smaller frame and punishment at the mike makes him more injury prone. our LB corps would be flat out scary.

ObsiWan
12-17-2008, 01:26 AM
if he were somehow still on the board, my dream is for us to draft rey maualuga out of usc and move demeco to the outside, since his smaller frame and punishment at the mike makes him more injury prone. our LB corps would be flat out scary.

Can he cover Dallas Clark all over the field?
Nope.
We need more speed.

TEXANRED
12-17-2008, 06:59 AM
OLB is still a need on this team. I know there are a lot of Diles fans here but he is a MLB playing OLB like a MLB. I didn't see a change in our front seven after he got hurt. Bentley came in and was doing the job just as well as Diles. Maybe not from a tackle stand point, but our rush/pass defense didn't get any better or worse.

Maybe we switch Diles and DeMeco's positions? Nah.

Xavier worries me a little with his health. First he gets a mysterious illness (which sounds like Mono) and now he pulls his groin and will likely miss the rest of the season. So there might be a health issue there.

I do agree that DE and Safety are probably bigger concerns at this point, but I would still address it in the draft.

BigBull17
12-17-2008, 07:17 AM
I agree. I know I've mentioned it quite often, but this draft should focus entirely of the defense. Maybe mix in a C/G somewhere in the 7 rounds, but the rest on defense. That way if SmithDC is still around for next season (Gag me!) the "not enough talent" BS can't be used as an excuse.

:texflag:

I would like to see us get a slot type WR guy as well. Just to spread the field. Anderson is ok, but a little more impact.

Insideop
12-17-2008, 07:50 AM
I wouldn't mind an upgrade to our LB's but not at the expense of a higher rated player. Diles was absolutely awesome this year, and Adibi has looked great. I've been worried over Demeco's injury and his ability to get/stay healthy. Something is going to have to change over the next few season- we either NEED a bigger DT (NT) and have Amobi/TJ alternate or we NEED to get more athletic, quicker LB's. If we have an undersized DL, our LB's are going to get pounded and have shorter careers. Demeco may be the same weight as some other notable LB's... but he doesn't have the same frame. If we don't get a beefier DL and Demeco stays in the middle, I'm worried he's always going to have some lingering health issue. I'm not saying he's not a fighter b/c he'll be out there playing even if he's got a broken arm, but too many hits from the MJD's, Addai's, and White/Johnson's of the league/division are going to take a toll on him. I have been okay with moving Demeco outside if we can get the likes of a LB like P-Willie. We passed him up for the pure upside of Amobi... will we continue to gamble like that? (could be somewhat similar prospects like Mauluga and Spikes this year) although Curry for OLB would be a great addition.

I'm worried about Diles, too. He looked great, but the the bottom line is he's got a steel rod in his leg right now. I don't know about the recovery of anything like that but I find it doubtful he makes it back 100% next season, but that's just me. If he doesn't... or even if he does, he provides great depth and our LB's become the strength of our defense.

We've several options for players and positions to look at with our 1st rd pick this year. DT, DE, LB, S, CB, OG so I think we just need to focus on taking the best player available.

Yep! I have to agree with you here OMT about the health concerns of DeMeco and Diles. I'm also concerned about Adibi too (light weight and injuries). So, if Curry is there when we pick in the 1st, I hope we take him. If he's gone, maybe Everette Brown or Taylor Mays will be there, but I hope Curry is still there. JMHO!

infantrycak
12-17-2008, 09:14 AM
I wonder if we are still going to have move Demeco posts/threads after he has gone to his 6th pro-bowl at MLB.

BigBull17
12-17-2008, 09:47 AM
OLB is still a need on this team. I know there are a lot of Diles fans here but he is a MLB playing OLB like a MLB. I didn't see a change in our front seven after he got hurt. Bentley came in and was doing the job just as well as Diles. Maybe not from a tackle stand point, but our rush/pass defense didn't get any better or worse.

Maybe we switch Diles and DeMeco's positions? Nah.

Xavier worries me a little with his health. First he gets a mysterious illness (which sounds like Mono) and now he pulls his groin and will likely miss the rest of the season. So there might be a health issue there.

I do agree that DE and Safety are probably bigger concerns at this point, but I would still address it in the draft.

Agreed. DE and S are needs one and two, but a OLB has to figure into this draft. I just think we can get better at the postition.

I wonder if we are still going to have move Demeco posts/threads after he has gone to his 6th pro-bowl at MLB.

We better not after we passed on Willis to leave him in the middle.

Ole Miss Texan
12-17-2008, 10:16 AM
I wonder if we are still going to have move Demeco posts/threads after he has gone to his 6th pro-bowl at MLB.

I have no doubt in my mind Demeco is a great MLB and will make many pro bowl rosters. I just always have to wonder WHAT IF we had another perennial pro bowler in the Middle and Demeco was just as good outside. What if Demeco is forced to play with lingering ankle injuries his whole career because he's playing mike behind an undersized DL?

Willis has already proved he's that MLB, but the past is the past. There are a lot of LB's this draft that can really succeed in the NFL. I'm not a HUGE huge fan of moving Demeco for the sake of moving him. Kubiak is obviously a really smart coach and I trust his judgement. But I also know Demeco is really versatile and you don't pass up on A++ talent.

Amobi was apparently the highest rated Defensive player on their board in '07, so you take him if you have the chance. Duane Brown is apparently perfectly suited for LT in Gibb's ZBS so you take him to be your franchise LT while the coach is here. But at what cost do you take these players? Both are based LARGELY on potential, shoot almost purely on potential. And to be clear, I was a fan of both draft picks and still am.

infantrycak
12-17-2008, 10:26 AM
I have no doubt in my mind Demeco is a great MLB and will make many pro bowl rosters. I just always have to wonder WHAT IF we had another perennial pro bowler in the Middle and Demeco was just as good outside. What if Demeco is forced to play with lingering ankle injuries his whole career because he's playing mike behind an undersized DL?

Willis has already proved he's that MLB, but the past is the past. There are a lot of LB's this draft that can really succeed in the NFL. I'm not a HUGE huge fan of moving Demeco for the sake of moving him. Kubiak is obviously a really smart coach and I trust his judgement. But I also know Demeco is really versatile and you don't pass up on A++ talent.

What if Demeco just got rolled in the pile and his ankle has nothing whatsoever to do with the DL? What if they get another perennial pro bowler on the outside and Demeco stays where he is? What if Willis had been moved to the outside?

Fact is teams pass up on A++ talent all the time at positions they feel are set and because there are almost always other players at other positions with very similar talent available. You rarely see a team spend a first round pick on a position they already have a pro-bowler at unless they are clearly at the end of their career. I understand Demeco is versatile but I just don't like screwing with success. In addition to the pure play on the field, the MLB is the traditional leader of the front seven and I think Demeco has exceptional smarts and leadership he brings to the position that can't be undervalued.

Ole Miss Texan
12-17-2008, 11:19 AM
What if Demeco just got rolled in the pile and his ankle has nothing whatsoever to do with the DL? What if they get another perennial pro bowler on the outside and Demeco stays where he is? What if Willis had been moved to the outside?

Fact is teams pass up on A++ talent all the time at positions they feel are set and because there are almost always other players at other positions with very similar talent available. You rarely see a team spend a first round pick on a position they already have a pro-bowler at unless they are clearly at the end of their career. I understand Demeco is versatile but I just don't like screwing with success. In addition to the pure play on the field, the MLB is the traditional leader of the front seven and I think Demeco has exceptional smarts and leadership he brings to the position that can't be undervalued.

No doubt I agree with your post. As to the injury (or any potential), it's not so much what caused it but with it going forward in future years. It is very rare to 'replace' a pro bowlwer, DROY with another player to make a move. I think adding a pro bowl OLB (like Curry?) would be great or moving another LB outside would be good if they can make that transition. As to the bolded, 110% agree. That's the biggest factor why I believe they moved him to MLB. I think initially it was unclear as to where he'd play but that he would definitely see the field as a starter. I think it is his ability to be the leader and his football IQ that keep him where he is. But part of the BPA process during the draft is best player, not best athlete- "player" should take into account these intangibles.

BigBull17
12-17-2008, 11:21 AM
I have no doubt in my mind Demeco is a great MLB and will make many pro bowl rosters. I just always have to wonder WHAT IF we had another perennial pro bowler in the Middle and Demeco was just as good outside. What if Demeco is forced to play with lingering ankle injuries his whole career because he's playing mike behind an undersized DL?

Willis has already proved he's that MLB, but the past is the past. There are a lot of LB's this draft that can really succeed in the NFL. I'm not a HUGE huge fan of moving Demeco for the sake of moving him. Kubiak is obviously a really smart coach and I trust his judgement. But I also know Demeco is really versatile and you don't pass up on A++ talent.

Amobi was apparently the highest rated Defensive player on their board in '07, so you take him if you have the chance. Duane Brown is apparently perfectly suited for LT in Gibb's ZBS so you take him to be your franchise LT while the coach is here. But at what cost do you take these players? Both are based LARGELY on potential, shoot almost purely on potential. And to be clear, I was a fan of both draft picks and still am.

I agree, the past is the past, but Ill still die a little each time I see him post 200 tackle seasons.

Ole Miss Texan
12-17-2008, 11:27 AM
Back to the original thought though:

I really like Adibi and Demeco where they are.
Diles being injured really concernces me and I'm not writing him in, we have to move on like he's not even available next year.
Bentley is a good backup to have and can play in the middle or outside if necessary for spot duty.
Greenwood shouldn't get another contract like he has and is welcome to play his way onto another team if he'd like. I think he's a good backup to have, I like him for the team as a backup but not at his current price.
Then there's Coley and Thompson and I havn't really seen enough of them.

I miss Charlie Anderson, I think he was a great backup to have and an even better special teams player.

Ole Miss Texan
12-17-2008, 11:32 AM
I agree, the past is the past, but Ill still die a little each time I see him post 200 tackle seasons.

You're telling me! I'm mostly just telling myself that so I get over it... I don't want to be a P-Dub Homer like some of the VY homers we had around here. :)

Not to derail the thread at all but I wonder, what if ATL and Petrino would have taken Amobi instead of Anderson. Who would have been next on our list? Would we had taken Anderson to play opposite Mario or maybe Willis? This is why I love the draft so much, every pick affected by the ones preceding it.

Vinny
12-17-2008, 11:34 AM
after watching him play for two years I have a hard time comprehending how Okoye would have been the highest rated defensive player on the draft board.

Ole Miss Texan
12-17-2008, 11:42 AM
after watching him play for two years I have a hard time comprehending how Okoye would have been the highest rated defensive player on the draft board.

Great story, smart, nice guy and tons of potential. I think it was one of those "let's pray we just hit a homerun picks" that teams can afford to make when they have a better supporting cast. If our DL was already strong, Okoye would be making more plays left and right. Instead, now the first couple seasons we're paying him handsomely to learn the game and to try and put it together.

BigBull17
12-18-2008, 11:36 AM
after watching him play for two years I have a hard time comprehending how Okoye would have been the highest rated defensive player on the draft board.

I agree. I wanted Willis from the 1st scouting report I read. If not him, a trade down. It kills me that we not only passed on him, but took Okoye at all. One of the trade down rumors was Brandon Marshal and a 2nd. Thats sick.

Back to the topic:

The injury makes it very important to get an OLB. Spencer is a hard lesson. Diles was playing fine, but not so overwelming that he cant be upgraded. Considering Adibi seems a little fragile a swing OLB with size cant hurt. Just take an SEC guy. They are Big and Fast.

beerlover
12-18-2008, 12:14 PM
after watching him play for two years I have a hard time comprehending how Okoye would have been the highest rated defensive player on the draft board.

frustrating to watch him struggle inside against one gap assingments.

OULADS (pro-draft service) rated him 9.17 (19th overall on the draft board) 2nd highest rated DT (Alan Branch #1 who slipped to Arizona #33). thats just one example how opinions vary. Coming out Amobi Okoye imbodied a sweet combination of intelligence, age, College production, character & workouts building a strong case for teams who needed a solid, young DT with upside. I didn't consider him a reach then nor do I consider him a reach now after two years in the NFL. even though his production does not reflect improvement, he is looking alot stronger, more explsovie & everydown type of tackle. So it takes him three years instead of two- in the longrun another foundation piece on Texans DL IMO :twocents:

DocBar
12-18-2008, 01:18 PM
I think we're in a position to take the best player available at our draft spot. We only have 5 positions that don't need upgrading, in my opinion: WR, QB, TE(TE is optional, but I like ours), PK,P.
Having said that, if there were a Ware or Johnson type LB on the board, I DON'T think we'll take a DT. We take the LB.
Overall, I'm not too worried about the draft. Kubes and Smith ROCK on draft days. Free Agency, on the other hand, can be disappointing.

badboy
12-18-2008, 01:28 PM
I wonder if we are still going to have move Demeco posts/threads after he has gone to his 6th pro-bowl at MLB.
Probably because like former Oiler Bruce Matthews, a person can excel at more than one position allowing someone to satisfactorly fill (in this case mlb) and moving Matthews or Ryans to another area giving more over all strength to team.

Vinny
12-18-2008, 03:10 PM
Great story, smart, nice guy and tons of potential. I think it was one of those "let's pray we just hit a homerun picks" that teams can afford to make when they have a better supporting cast. If our DL was already strong, Okoye would be making more plays left and right. Instead, now the first couple seasons we're paying him handsomely to learn the game and to try and put it together.I was big on CB Darrell Revis since top CB's are hard to find and he has really played up to his billing as shown by the fact that he going to his first pro bowl and we wouldn't have needed to sign Jacques Reeves and could have spent that money on a good OLB or S perhaps....but that's just crying over more expensive spilled milk.

frustrating to watch him struggle inside against one gap assingments.

OULADS (pro-draft service) rated him 9.17 (19th overall on the draft board) 2nd highest rated DT (Alan Branch #1 who slipped to Arizona #33). thats just one example how opinions vary. Coming out Amobi Okoye imbodied a sweet combination of intelligence, age, College production, character & workouts building a strong case for teams who needed a solid, young DT with upside. I didn't consider him a reach then nor do I consider him a reach now after two years in the NFL. even though his production does not reflect improvement, he is looking alot stronger, more explsovie & everydown type of tackle. So it takes him three years instead of two- in the longrun another foundation piece on Texans DL IMO :twocents: I'm always afraid of the Danny Almonte's of the sports world. I wish he wasn't so easy to redirect and move out of the play, then I'd probably feel better about his upside.

Goldensilence
12-18-2008, 03:28 PM
I was hoping for Willis, but at this point all we can really do is hope he steps up next year with a good offseason and hopefully a new DC.


Far as out LB corps go; we need them all fully healthy. Ryans has had an off year and has played best as he can. Groin injuries can be problematic but this team looked a heck of a lot better with him on the field. You got to love effort guys like Diles but I think we could upgrade his spot. Thompson and Bentley are great depth and can probably start in spurts I don't know how I feel about them all season long. I am hoping we go either OG/OC or LB in the first.

76Texan
12-18-2008, 05:53 PM
Great story, smart, nice guy and tons of potential. I think it was one of those "let's pray we just hit a homerun picks" that teams can afford to make when they have a better supporting cast. If our DL was already strong, Okoye would be making more plays left and right. Instead, now the first couple seasons we're paying him handsomely to learn the game and to try and put it together.Also, Okoye is only 21.

And his play has been underpreciated by some of the fans this year!

No, he has not shown to be special.
But he's at least solid.

dalemurphy
12-19-2008, 12:34 AM
Also, Okoye is only 21.

And his play has been underpreciated by some of the fans this year!

No, he has not shown to be special.
But he's at least solid.


He's a "solid" penetrator. He's been a poor playmaker and very poor at the point of attack. That's just reality. I'm still encouraged and excited about his future. You're right that he's very young and I believe he'll get better. He'll get better also when we put a 330 lb monster next to him over the center.

TimeKiller
12-19-2008, 07:35 AM
The easiest move here is Adibi to safety. Opens wide the OLB pick, keeps Demeco where Demeco does it, Diles comes back and (hopefully) continues his upward surge, Adibi doesn't need to put on weight to stay healthy. It just makes too much sense I suppose...

BigBull17
12-19-2008, 07:52 AM
The easiest move here is Adibi to safety. Opens wide the OLB pick, keeps Demeco where Demeco does it, Diles comes back and (hopefully) continues his upward surge, Adibi doesn't need to put on weight to stay healthy. It just makes too much sense I suppose...

Not if he isnt a natural ball hawk. OLB seems like his natural position.

TimeKiller
12-19-2008, 10:09 AM
Not if he isnt a natural ball hawk. OLB seems like his natural position.

I thought coverage was his strength as a player? Everything about him seems to point to LB except his size. I don't want him to bulk up and lose what makes him dangerous to oppose but I also don't want him to be thrown around in the land-of-the-giants trying to make plays. As fast as he is, and for as naturally as he seems to play defense I don't think converting to safety would be an excessively hard thing for him to do.

infantrycak
12-19-2008, 10:52 AM
I thought coverage was his strength as a player?

When folks make comments about a LB being great in coverage it is relative to other LBs. It doesn't mean they are great in coverage relative to a DB. Adibi doesn't have the short speed to cover WRs on a regular basis.

BigBull17
12-19-2008, 10:57 AM
I thought coverage was his strength as a player? Everything about him seems to point to LB except his size. I don't want him to bulk up and lose what makes him dangerous to oppose but I also don't want him to be thrown around in the land-of-the-giants trying to make plays. As fast as he is, and for as naturally as he seems to play defense I don't think converting to safety would be an excessively hard thing for him to do.

They say that alot about smaller type LBs, and it normally doesnt work. Boulware and Thomas Brown(I think) from Caronlina are two I remember at the moment. Its just a different game.

infantrycak
12-19-2008, 11:01 AM
They say that alot about smaller type LBs, and it normally doesnt work. Boulware and Thomas Brown(I think) from Caronlina are two I remember at the moment. Its just a different game.

You are thinking of Thomas Davis OLB for Carolina.

BigBull17
12-19-2008, 11:08 AM
You are thinking of Thomas Davis OLB for Carolina.

Thats the guy. Played SS for a year or so, but moved back because he wasnt a great fit.

badboy
12-19-2008, 11:32 AM
I was big on CB Darrell Revis since top CB's are hard to find and he has really played up to his billing as shown by the fact that he going to his first pro bowl and we wouldn't have needed to sign Jacques Reeves and could have spent that money on a good OLB or S perhaps....but that's just crying over more expensive spilled milk.

I'm always afraid of the Danny Almonte's of the sports world. I wish he wasn't so easy to redirect and move out of the play, then I'd probably feel better about his upside.Ouch! Vinny you had to bring up Revis and open my old wounds. I wanted that CB so bad. If only....

TexansSeminole
12-19-2008, 11:53 AM
Adibi will not be moved to safety. Not a good idea at all.

I think we have some servicable players at OLB, and no real backup at MLB. I suppose Bentley can back up DeMeco, but I would like to see us grab a guy to be his backup. If we have a chance at Curry I would take him, but if we can't get him we probably should focus on other needs and wait on a LB until the 3rd or 4th round.

We'll see if Adibi can add and keep weight for next year, I think he can be our WLB for many years. Diles I am not sure about. He sure can make tackles when the play is running right at him, but he isn't going to run sideline to sideline making plays IMO. He also doesn't really get down field and make plays behind the line of scrimmage. He is one of those LBers that gets alot of tackles by staying put and letting the play come to him, instead of seeking and destroying the play, if you will. JMO.

I seem to be in the minority in my opinion of Diles.

maddogmrb
12-19-2008, 11:58 AM
The last 2 years I've said that our #1 need was an impact OLB. I'm pleasantly surprised at the improved play we've received the past few weeks from our LB's, however we still don't have an impact OLB. At minimum, we need additional depth at all LB positions.

In fact, I've been pleasantly surprised by the overall improved play of the team. This is encouraging enough to me that I believe we can finally say that we can truly draft BPA at every pick this year. Overall team depth is a problem, of course, but can be solved thru drafting BPA's and signing FA's.

The issue I have is that after finishing 8-8 last year we should have started this season off much stronger than we did. Where we are at week 14 is where we should have been in week 1.

The past 2 seasons we've started slow and finished strong. To be a true playoff caliber team we need more consistency from start to finish.

TimeKiller
12-19-2008, 12:56 PM
When folks make comments about a LB being great in coverage it is relative to other LBs. It doesn't mean they are great in coverage relative to a DB. Adibi doesn't have the short speed to cover WRs on a regular basis.
Ah, I see....but just to be funny he probably covers as well as our safeties do anyway...


I seem to be in the minority in my opinion of Diles.
I agree with you when you say he doesn't have a lot of range but he still destroyed the plays when they came to him. He was a bright spot to me because he kept getting better and better all the way up to the injury.

Ole Miss Texan
12-19-2008, 01:31 PM
I thought Adibi's weight was effected because of his health issue or some sickness. Once the started treating it he got healthy and could practice/play more. Am I thinking of someone else though?

HOU-TEX
12-19-2008, 01:37 PM
I thought Adibi's weight was effected because of his health issue or some sickness. Once the started treating it he got healthy and could practice/play more. Am I thinking of someone else though?

Nah, you got it right, Ole Miss. Adibi was underweight to begin with coming out of College. Getting sick only made matters worse. I think he can be a really good LB by only adding 10-15 lbs. I don't think he's lose much speed if any with that amount.

That said, I still wouldn't hesitate if a LB fell in our laps in the draft. :cool:

badboy
12-19-2008, 02:09 PM
What is interesting to me is what we have been able to get with lower rounds. It is possible to get seven productive players this draft. Most agree that DE, FS, PB, DT and LB are biggest needs. My opinion is DT rather than LB but regardless, we should meet at least four needs if Smith and Kubes draft as well as they have.

It is possible also that Bulman, Nading and Cochran can develop enough to render 6-8 sacks and resolve DE somewhat.

TJ or Okam or more likely DelJuan could be the run stopper.
Our LBs sans Greenwood could hold it together.
Kubes could be satisfied with progress of DBs.

It is possible to see
1. TE Brandon Pettigrew 6'6" 260
2. OT Phil Loadholdt 6'8" 338
3. RB Shon Green 5'11" 235
4. QB Grham Harrell
5 C Antoine Caldwell 6'3" 305 5.12 probably gone but stick falling some.

mussop
12-20-2008, 02:06 AM
Adibi will not be moved to safety. Not a good idea at all.

I think we have some servicable players at OLB, and no real backup at MLB. I suppose Bentley can back up DeMeco, but I would like to see us grab a guy to be his backup. If we have a chance at Curry I would take him, but if we can't get him we probably should focus on other needs and wait on a LB until the 3rd or 4th round.

We'll see if Adibi can add and keep weight for next year, I think he can be our WLB for many years. Diles I am not sure about. He sure can make tackles when the play is running right at him, but he isn't going to run sideline to sideline making plays IMO. He also doesn't really get down field and make plays behind the line of scrimmage. He is one of those LBers that gets alot of tackles by staying put and letting the play come to him, instead of seeking and destroying the play, if you will. JMO.

I seem to be in the minority in my opinion of Diles.

You are spot on IMO. He was improving and playing better before he was injured though.

Goldensilence
12-20-2008, 11:03 AM
Adibi will not be moved to safety. Not a good idea at all.

I think we have some servicable players at OLB, and no real backup at MLB. I suppose Bentley can back up DeMeco, but I would like to see us grab a guy to be his backup. If we have a chance at Curry I would take him, but if we can't get him we probably should focus on other needs and wait on a LB until the 3rd or 4th round.

We'll see if Adibi can add and keep weight for next year, I think he can be our WLB for many years. Diles I am not sure about. He sure can make tackles when the play is running right at him, but he isn't going to run sideline to sideline making plays IMO. He also doesn't really get down field and make plays behind the line of scrimmage. He is one of those LBers that gets alot of tackles by staying put and letting the play come to him, instead of seeking and destroying the play, if you will. JMO.

I seem to be in the minority in my opinion of Diles.

Great post. Sometimes I am amazed at the ideas for safeties on this board. Move a LB to safety :gun:

BigBull17
12-20-2008, 01:02 PM
What is interesting to me is what we have been able to get with lower rounds. It is possible to get seven productive players this draft. Most agree that DE, FS, PB, DT and LB are biggest needs. My opinion is DT rather than LB but regardless, we should meet at least four needs if Smith and Kubes draft as well as they have.

It is possible also that Bulman, Nading and Cochran can develop enough to render 6-8 sacks and resolve DE somewhat.

TJ or Okam or more likely DelJuan could be the run stopper.
Our LBs sans Greenwood could hold it together.
Kubes could be satisfied with progress of DBs.

It is possible to see
1. TE Brandon Pettigrew 6'6" 260
2. OT Phil Loadholdt 6'8" 338
3. RB Shon Green 5'11" 235
4. QB Grham Harrell
5 C Antoine Caldwell 6'3" 305 5.12 probably gone but stick falling some.

So, we improve our high powered offense and not our sive like defense? Not a good idea.

mussop
12-21-2008, 04:20 AM
So, we improve our high powered offense and not our sive like defense? Not a good idea.

We have no quality depth on our OL, RB or TE. Everyone seems to be forgetting this. Despite our success on offense depth is still a weekness. We are one key injury away from falling apart. How high powered do you think our offense would be if Duane Brown or Steve Slaton goes down? THink we can be productive with Salaam or White starting on the OL or Sapp as our fulltime RB?

Like it or not we are still in draft BPA mode. Drafting for need is a luxury for established winning teams with few needs. No way Smith drafts an Defensive player over a higher rated Offensive player just because he plays defense. Now if the 2 players are rated close I can see it.

Ole Miss Texan
12-21-2008, 11:23 AM
We have no quality depth on our OL, RB or TE. Everyone seems to be forgetting this. Despite our success on offense depth is still a weekness. We are one key injury away from falling apart. How high powered do you think our offense would be if Duane Brown or Steve Slaton goes down? THink we can be productive with Salaam or White starting on the OL or Sapp as our fulltime RB?

Like it or not we are still in draft BPA mode. Drafting for need is a luxury for established winning teams with few needs. No way Smith drafts an Defensive player over a higher rated Offensive player just because he plays defense. Now if the 2 players are rated close I can see it.

That's true. There's several different strategies regarding the draft. Need is the most likely used by mock drafters and fans. What's a teams biggest need and what's the best player available to fit that position. The reason the draft is so hard to predict, is that there are 32 teams looking at every player differently and using different strategies to make their team better.

I think a strategy that the Texans may be trying to use is by building a superunit: in our case, our defensive line. For example, if we're focusing on our DL instead of trying to mask other weaknesses, we would be drafting the highest rated player if he's on the DL. This ends up building a 'superunit' that other teams have to spend so much time gameplanning and trying to stop, that it really masks other deficiencies like the LB's or DB's on our team. If we're mediocre all over, then it really opens up the other teams gameplan and playbook.