PDA

View Full Version : "We don't have enough talent on defense"


b0ng
12-15-2008, 01:22 PM
I've heard this excuse to keep Smith a lot. I am not buying that anymore. I think we have talent enough on defense to be able to do whatever his real philosophy is. We had to have a coach feel that his job was already foregone before he started dialing up more pressure.

I think that there is enough stud-level talent and that there are plenty of players who can fill in adequately enough to make this defense a whole lot more of a handful for opposing offenses.

Anybody with me and think that the "No Talent" excuse is NOT a valid defense for Smith's terrible units for the first 9 weeks of the season?

Hervoyel
12-15-2008, 01:32 PM
I've heard this excuse to keep Smith a lot. I am not buying that anymore. I think we have talent enough on defense to be able to do whatever his real philosophy is. We had to have a coach feel that his job was already foregone before he started dialing up more pressure.

I think that there is enough stud-level talent and that there are plenty of players who can fill in adequately enough to make this defense a whole lot more of a handful for opposing offenses.

Anybody with me and think that the "No Talent" excuse is a valid defense for Smith's terrible units for the first 9 weeks of the season?

The last four weeks is definitive proof that this team, with these players can field an effective and aggressive defense. It's as much an indictment of Smith as it is a credit. Sure he's got them getting after it now and that's great. Golf clap for Richard Smith for finally getting it. How come he couldn't get it in the first 10 weeks of the season?

Dunta coming back was big but it wasn't the be-all, end-all of defensive transformations and besides, Dunta's been beat plenty since he got back. It's not like he's 100% his old self again. No, Richard Smith ran a timid defense for most of the year, again, because he lacks the stones to take the necessary chances. He won't put his guys in a position to make plays and be successful.

He needs to learn this lesson or hit the road once and for all. Next year we're going to probably be starting a rookie safety of some sort and possibly a rookie linebacker at some point. This is not an excuse for Richard Smith to get all timid again. If he tries to reign it all in until the youngsters are up to speed then he'll cost us games.

You're 100% right. We can play with this bunch. Nobody has all the players they want in the NFL except for Pro Bowl teams. Since Smith will never coach one of those he'd better learn how to make chicken salad out of what he's given.

BuffaloglennTX
12-15-2008, 01:33 PM
I've heard this excuse to keep Smith a lot. I am not buying that anymore. I think we have talent enough on defense to be able to do whatever his real philosophy is. We had to have a coach feel that his job was already foregone before he started dialing up more pressure.

I think that there is enough stud-level talent and that there are plenty of players who can fill in adequately enough to make this defense a whole lot more of a handful for opposing offenses.

Anybody with me and think that the "No Talent" excuse is a valid defense for Smith's terrible units for the first 9 weeks of the season?

I'm not - they still need a pass rusher opposite Mario, more athletic safeties, and more strength at defensive tackle. I do believe that Richard Smith was too tentative early on in the season, but I also believe he has learned his lesson and having Reeves improve his play along with #23 returning, has the confidence to do what he has done the last several games. It's working, and if you look back, there were flashes of it earlier this season but it was not consistent (first Tenn game, first Indy game).

jerek
12-15-2008, 01:55 PM
We still need to improve our secretary, add a competent LB and D-lineman but I'd pretty much echo what Herv said ... I'd fault Smith for our poor performances more than I'd fault the guys in uniform.

infantrycak
12-15-2008, 01:57 PM
We still need to improve our secretary

What, poor dictation is resulting in the delay of game penalties?

Thorn
12-15-2008, 01:57 PM
We still need to improve our secretary, add a competent LB and D-lineman but I'd pretty much echo what Herv said ... I'd fault Smith for our poor performances more than I'd fault the guys in uniform.

The defense has a secretary? LOL

b0ng
12-15-2008, 01:58 PM
I'm not - they still need a pass rusher opposite Mario, more athletic safeties, and more strength at defensive tackle. I do believe that Richard Smith was too tentative early on in the season, but I also believe he has learned his lesson and having Reeves improve his play along with #23 returning, has the confidence to do what he has done the last several games. It's working, and if you look back, there were flashes of it earlier this season but it was not consistent (first Tenn game, first Indy game).

Richard Smith was entirely too tentative last season up until we basically got knocked out by Cleveland, and then proceeded to dial up some great defensive games like 5 or 6 times down the stretch. We thought he "learned his lesson" then but he brought back the ugly monster that it was at the beginning of last season back.

We're never going to have dudes who would be starters on every other NFL team at every position. I'm just really ready for a fresh set of eyes to put on our defense and to come up with something other than what we've had the past 3 years. It's not like he's gotta come up with a brand new pass rush for the Steelers. We're ranked in the bottom barrel in practically every defensive category you can come up with a stat for despite how great they've played since they were mathmatecally eliminated from the playoffs. If you can raise us to be just "mediocre" we'll mow through most NFL teams.

texasguy346
12-15-2008, 02:00 PM
The defense has a secretary? LOL

Haven't you ever heard of the Secretary of Defense? I'm guessing he wants us to get Robert Gates to take Richard Smith's job. You think teams were afraid of LaBeau's defense wait till they see our Gitmo defense.

Scooter
12-15-2008, 02:02 PM
The defense has a secretary? LOL

great idea jerek, we need to bring in deacon jones to give this team some fire!

BuffaloglennTX
12-15-2008, 02:03 PM
The defense has a secretary? LOL

I remember the "Minister of Defense"!

HOU-TEX
12-15-2008, 02:08 PM
The defense has a secretary? LOL

Well, someone's gotta be the scapegoat. We might as well make one up because it's looking as if SmithDC is making his annual run to keep his job. :mcnugget:

Jerek, were you eyeing your secretary as you were typing? Aaahhm, I'm tellin.

jerek
12-15-2008, 02:10 PM
What, poor dictation is resulting in the delay of game penalties?

Someone has to be held responsible for not copying the playbooks correctly.

Jerek, were you eyeing your secretary as you were typing? Aaahhm, I'm tellin.

While that would make for a hilarious Freudian slip, I work in a windowless office and have no secretary. Sorry but I'll have to let the joke die with that. :)

HJam72
12-15-2008, 02:11 PM
Why am I confused and thinking about cheerleaders? :thinking:

Double Barrel
12-15-2008, 02:13 PM
I'm not a fan of RS, and I'm certainly not making excuses (but I have to give him props for the last couple of games!)....but...we still need some talent on our defense. As mentioned above, we need another pass rusher and some secondary personel. We've got some good pieces, but we still need depth and a couple more playmakers on the starting 11.

Ole Miss Texan
12-15-2008, 02:20 PM
I don't think that it's so much of a lack of talent as it is a lack of maturity. We have a lot of talent but they havn't developed yet. I'm going to mark down Mario, T. Johnson, and Demeco down as guys we've seen as developed quickly or peaked (bad choice of words). I see T. Johnson as improved but he probably won't get much better, Mario/Demeco- are studs. Guys like Amobi, Okam, Adibi, Diles, Bennett, Dunta, Molden, etc. have showed us plenty of potential but they aren't there yet as pros. I put Dunta back in there b/c of his injury. All these guys are people we've drafted that have so much potential and talent... they just need some time to develop into true professional players.

Note: This post isn't one in favor of keeping or getting rid of Rick Smith. The same would be true for most coaches/coordinators. Some coaches can get their players to develop better or faster than others, some can get their players to play better than others. It's up to Gary Kubiak and Richard Smith to find that guy for our defense.

ChampionTexan
12-15-2008, 03:02 PM
I don't see why it's either or.

Yeah - the defense has improved, and a more aggressive mindset has probably had something to do with it, but if we took the yardage stats from the 4-game winning streak and extended them to the first 14 games of the season, we'd still be only 14th in rushing D, 18th in Passing D, and 17th in overall D. While it's just barely, the last time I checked, 17th is still in the bottom half of a 32 team league.

In my mind, while Richard Smith's not the worst DC in NFL history - heck, he's probably not the worst DC in NFL present, he can be improved upon. I think you can also say that about some of the defensive personnel too, because if the only problem in weeks 1-12 was the defensive philosophy, and we've fixed that, we should be better than 17th post-fix.

I don't know if Richard Smith has saved his job. Yeah, I would like to see him move on, but who replaces him is far more important than just fire him or don't fire him. Even when we know who our '09 DC is going to be - even if it's my first choice (and I don't know who that is), or RS is back, you can't know if it was a good move until we see results. That is to say if we hire (fill in the blank with Mike Nolan, Marvin Lewis, Jim Johnson, Mike Waufle or whoever you like best), and we finish in the bottom half defensively next year - I'm not happy. If we bring back Richard Smith and finish top 10 - I'm ecstatic. Any praising, complaining, predicting, celebrating, commiserating or whining that happens in the interim will be meaningless.

Goldensilence
12-15-2008, 03:41 PM
Curious to see Marcus' take on this.

Marcus
12-15-2008, 05:22 PM
We had to have a coach feel that his job was already foregone before he started dialing up more pressure.

Did Richard Smith himself tell you that, or is that something that you chose to pull out of your (_!_) in order to make your...point? You have no idea what he's feeling.

What the truth is, is that some of you are indeed looking for a scapegoat. a fall guy, to hang (fire) to make yourselves feel better because they didn't make the playoffs. Someone's got to burn for that. Fire Richard Smith, and all is right in the world.

You are just looking for someone to blame.

We probably now do have enough talent on the defense to compete. but that "talent" (shall we run off the names?) has to be developed into actual players, which takes time. Smith is being more aggressive lately, but I'm not going to pretend to know why, because I have no idea why or what the circumstances are. It could be that he's actually learning what works best, and it could be that he's actually developing into a better coordinator himself. He, the other coaches, and the players, don't sit off in separate rooms by themselves. They have to work together as a team, develop as a team, learn as team, become a team.

They seem to me, like they are on the right track. This so-called theory that he just plays conservative or vanilla because he's afraid he might lose his job is nothing but steaming horseshit.

Now, I don't know if Kubiak is going to fire Richard Smith at the end of the season. He made the comment on the radio today saying that the defense had become more aggressive. He didn't say why, and more than likely won't. But I"ll go out on a limb and predict he's got his mind already made up, one way or the other.

Specnatz
12-15-2008, 06:43 PM
Did Richard Smith himself tell you that, or is that something that you chose to pull out of your (_!_) in order to make your...point? You have no idea what he's feeling.

What the truth is, is that some of you are indeed looking for a scapegoat. a fall guy, to hang (fire) to make yourselves feel better because they didn't make the playoffs. Someone's got to burn for that. Fire Richard Smith, and all is right in the world.

You are just looking for someone to blame.

We probably now do have enough talent on the defense to compete. but that "talent" (shall we run off the names?) has to be developed into actual players, which takes time. Smith is being more aggressive lately, but I'm not going to pretend to know why, because I have no idea why or what the circumstances are. It could be that he's actually learning what works best, and it could be that he's actually developing into a better coordinator himself. He, the other coaches, and the players, don't sit off in separate rooms by themselves. They have to work together as a team, develop as a team, learn as team, become a team.

They seem to me, like they are on the right track. This so-called theory that he just plays conservative or vanilla because he's afraid he might lose his job is nothing but steaming horseshit.

Now, I don't know if Kubiak is going to fire Richard Smith at the end of the season. He made the comment on the radio today saying that the defense had become more aggressive. He didn't say why, and more than likely won't. But I"ll go out on a limb and predict he's got his mind already made up, one way or the other.

Look at the bolded Marcus, maybe you need to relax and take a breath. A lot of people are wondering out loud as to why the defense has all of a sudden become more aggressive. Before then it was back off 10 yards on a 3rd and 5 to go and watch the first down happen. 4th Down Defense is the worst in the league? 9-10 90% Third down defense is not spectacular either. We have allowed only 184 attempts on 3rd down with a success rate of 39.6%, which means we sucked on first and second down considering where we are ranked on total first down plays, 19th.

It is not that we are looking for someone to blame, the defense and turnovers are the worst stats on this team. If they improve this team would have a better record.

Double Barrel
12-15-2008, 06:45 PM
Did Richard Smith himself tell you that, or is that something that you chose to pull out of your (_!_) in order to make your...point? You have no idea what he's feeling.

What the truth is, is that some of you are indeed looking for a scapegoat. a fall guy, to hang (fire) to make yourselves feel better because they didn't make the playoffs. Someone's got to burn for that. Fire Richard Smith, and all is right in the world.

You are just looking for someone to blame.



And some of us just saw a god-awful defense ranked almost last in every category and figured that the leader of the defense - you know, the guy behind the schemes, plays, and talent evaluation - should be held accountable.

You can assume that people want a scapegoat, or you can understand that there are many reasons behind the various opinions of fans.

Besides, the "blame" for not making the playoffs could (if you wanted to) be laid squarely at the feet of our fumbling/interception throwing QBs. So perhaps it's all a matter of individual perspective at the end of the day.

Personally, I see lots of reasons for missing the playoffs, and it is not one man's fault. JMO

DocBar
12-15-2008, 07:33 PM
We still need to improve our secretary, add a competent LB and D-lineman but I'd pretty much echo what Herv said ... I'd fault Smith for our poor performances more than I'd fault the guys in uniform. What if she's hot?? You don't just go around replacing hot secretaries all willy-nilly.

Haven't you ever heard of the Secretary of Defense? I'm guessing he wants us to get Robert Gates to take Richard Smith's job. You think teams were afraid of LaBeau's defense wait till they see our Gitmo defense.If we get Gates as Secretary of Defense, do we get our very own Surge? It worked pretty well in Iraq. I think 30,000 is a bit much, but I wouldn't mind the NFL letting us have 13 defenders. Besides, playing the Colts twice a year, 13 defenders is only fair. And we're ALL about FAIR these days.

ATXtexanfan
12-15-2008, 07:36 PM
the defense is short on talent. maybe 2 players away from being talented. i think that the offense has done more to help the defense. cutting down on turnovers, field position, scoring touchdowns instead of kicking field goals, etc. who cares if smith comes back if the defense plays like this from here on out.

Runner
12-15-2008, 07:38 PM
If these coaches can point at bad talent as their excuse, Capers and crew should never have been fired either. This team is more talented, right?

DocBar
12-15-2008, 07:40 PM
the defense is short on talent. maybe 2 players away from being talented. i think that the offense has done more to help the defense. cutting down on turnovers, field position, scoring touchdowns instead of kicking field goals, etc. who cares if smith comes back if the defense plays like this from here on out.
Do we really need to get more talented or just use the talent we have more effectively. The DL could be something special if used properly, but we DO need some help at Safety. I think our LB corp is starting to look pretty good since we've started playing more aggressively.

ObsiWan
12-15-2008, 07:49 PM
If these coaches can point at bad talent as their excuse, Capers and crew should never have been fired either. This team is more talented, right?

I'm sorry. But isn't it the coach's responsibility to identify what talent he needs to get the best results?

The1ApplePie
12-15-2008, 09:25 PM
With the success of the offense, drafting on that side of the ball might get us over the top with an adequate defense on the other side.

Get
No. 2 WR (a real threat, not some guy that is open because teams double AJ all game)
G
C
Power RB

DocBar
12-15-2008, 09:31 PM
With the success of the offense, drafting on that side of the ball might get us over the top with an adequate defense on the other side.

Get
No. 2 WR (a real threat, not some guy that is open because teams double AJ all game)
G
C
Power RB The offense is pretty solid. We just need to add depth. Defense has cost us way more than offense. "If Schaub had been in"... and all that. If Rosenchopper played D, we'd probably have a worse turnover ratio than we already have.

b0ng
12-15-2008, 10:44 PM
Did Richard Smith himself tell you that, or is that something that you chose to pull out of your (_!_) in order to make your...point? You have no idea what he's feeling.

I find it odd that when Kubiak publicly states that the defense is not playing good and it's on them (meaning the coaches), and then the D turns around because it has seemingly adopted a completely different attitude yeah, I'll say that he felt his job was on the line.

What the truth is, is that some of you are indeed looking for a scapegoat. a fall guy, to hang (fire) to make yourselves feel better because they didn't make the playoffs. Someone's got to burn for that. Fire Richard Smith, and all is right in the world.

You are just looking for someone to blame.

Yeah, after 3 years and some laughably terrible displays on defense, your a-right I'm looking for somebody to blame. This isn't a new development with the defense. It's not as if people are saying "What happened were so good x amount of time ago". It's been this bad for 3 years. That's plenty of time to get what kind of players you want on defense, and it's damn sure enough time to come up with some kind of philosophy for your defense. Up until 2/3's of the way into the season that philosophy was "suck".

Sorry, I don't care what his excuse is anymore, I want Smith gone because the product he has put out has been inferior to the rest of the league for too long.

Runner
12-15-2008, 10:57 PM
I'm sorry. But isn't it the coach's responsibility to identify what talent he needs to get the best results?

Heck no. They don't play the game either. Frankly, the coaches have so little to do with results I don't know why the team has any. :rolleyes:

HOU-TEX
12-16-2008, 09:36 AM
With the success of the offense, drafting on that side of the ball might get us over the top with an adequate defense on the other side.

Get
No. 2 WR (a real threat, not some guy that is open because teams double AJ all game)
G
C
Power RB

Yeah, those #2 WR's that get open really suck. :rolleyes:

The1ApplePie
12-16-2008, 09:38 AM
Yeah, those #2 WR's that get open really suck. :rolleyes:

One's that never draw double coverage really suck

HOU-TEX
12-16-2008, 09:42 AM
One's that never draw double coverage really suck

Isn't that what the #1 WR's for? I mean, if the #2 WR is drawing the double teams then why isn't he considered the #1? Or do you expect a defense to double cover both our #1 and #2? LOL!

Thorn
12-16-2008, 09:44 AM
The point Apple is trying to make is if we had two recievers both demanding double coverage it would severly limit what the defense can do against us. And I agree with that.

However, I think with the emergence of Walter and OD and quite possibly Slaton lining up in the slot, we might already be close to that.

I still think a quality DE to play oppisite Mario is our biggest need. IMO.

The1ApplePie
12-16-2008, 09:46 AM
Isn't that what the #1 WR's for? I mean, if the #2 WR is drawing the double teams then why isn't he considered the #1? Or do you expect a defense to double cover both our #1 and #2? LOL!

You need a No. 2 that actually forces teams to put double coverage on him every once and a while.

Pats
Cardinals
Cowboys
Steelers
Giants (pre Plax shooting his own ass)
Colts

bigbrewster2000
12-16-2008, 09:52 AM
One's that never draw double coverage really suck

Why would you ever logically take double coverage off of AJ to put onto another reciever? AJ is arguably the best WR in the league. We dont need a WR. KW is a great compliment to AJ. KW exploits the single coverage he gets when AJ is doubled so our offense doesnt miss a beat. And that is what you want from your #2.

Next!!!

HOU-TEX
12-16-2008, 10:01 AM
You need a No. 2 that actually forces teams to put double coverage on him every once and a while.

Pats
Cardinals
Cowboys
Steelers
Giants (pre Plax shooting his own ass)
Colts

I'll give you the Cards and maybe the Colts and Pats, but the rest of those teams #2's aren't much better than K-Dub.

Pats - Welker
Cards - Bolden/Fitz - Awesome
Girls - Was Crayton now Roy Williams - Hasn't done diddly since signed
Steelers - Santonio Holmes
Giants - Toomer
Colts - Harrison

I'd take K-Dub over Crayton, Williams, Holmes, Toomer and the present Harrison.

I do understand where you're coming from Apple, but I just think WR is one of the last positions of need right now. I can agree with an upgrade at C and G, but most of the draft should go towards the defense.

My .02

BuffaloglennTX
12-16-2008, 10:04 AM
Why would you ever logically take double coverage off of AJ to put onto another reciever? AJ is arguably the best WR in the league. We dont need a WR. KW is a great compliment to AJ. KW exploits the single coverage he gets when AJ is doubled so our offense doesnt miss a beat. And that is what you want from your #2.

Next!!!

X2 - receiver is the strongest position on the team. It has quality and depth. Kevin Walter has a chance to break 1,000 yards this year, which would give the Texans two receivers over 1,000 for the first time. David Anderson is good in the slot, and Andre Davis is a good backup/fourth receiver as evidenced by his play last year especially when AJ was out with the knee injury. I don't know why I am wasting my time typing this. There really isn't any room for discussion on this topic. :d: is where we need to make some upgrades.

WesmanTexanfan
12-16-2008, 10:15 AM
I've heard this excuse to keep Smith a lot. I am not buying that anymore. I think we have talent enough on defense to be able to do whatever his real philosophy is. We had to have a coach feel that his job was already foregone before he started dialing up more pressure.

I think that there is enough stud-level talent and that there are plenty of players who can fill in adequately enough to make this defense a whole lot more of a handful for opposing offenses.

Anybody with me and think that the "No Talent" excuse is NOT a valid defense for Smith's terrible units for the first 9 weeks of the season?

I dont buy it either, i havnt for the last 2 years. we are a solid DE and play caller away from being Dominant. With those 2 things, our guys will be covering for 3-4 seconds instead of 6-7.

Less turn overs would also drasticly help our D. they have been on the field 30< extra times this year.

also good DCs make ok players look good, and Bad DCs make ok players look bad or.....ok....

Goldensilence
12-16-2008, 10:16 AM
The point Apple is trying to make is if we had two recievers both demanding double coverage it would severly limit what the defense can do against us. And I agree with that.

However, I think with the emergence of Walter and OD and quite possibly Slaton lining up in the slot, we might already be close to that.

I still think a quality DE to play oppisite Mario is our biggest need. IMO.

I can agree to an extent. I am sure there are a quite a few teams in the league that would love their second receiver racking up about 1000 yard a season and not be afraid to go over the middle. Jones was supposed to develop into that third deep threat and I hate to keep saying it I'm just not sure he's going to make that leap in Houston. At any rate the deep bomb is great to watch but it's the long drives where several mid range 3rd downs keep being made are what breaks a teams spirit. We have the WR corps to do that. Gotta cross your fingers on Jacoby, that's the risk you take on small school guys in the third.

Hervoyel
12-16-2008, 10:36 AM
I'm sorry. But isn't it the coach's responsibility to identify what talent he needs to get the best results?

Indeed and at last count I noted that the Texans were sporting 43 players who this regime had gone out and gotten while retaining only 10 players from the Capers era.

Vinny
12-16-2008, 11:07 AM
You need a No. 2 that actually forces teams to put double coverage on him every once and a while.

Pats
Cardinals
Cowboys
Steelers
Giants (pre Plax shooting his own ass)
Colts
we are already 3rd in the league in passing the ball, ahead of the Pats, Cowboys, Steelers, Giants and Colts (your examples). It's not like this is a weakness...no way we take a receiver early in the draft or any wr of any substance in FA.

Polo
12-16-2008, 06:35 PM
All you guys have it wrong...

It was Morlon...Been saying that since '05....

A better WLB does a lot of things for the defense...Crazy how better pass coverage, run stopping and blitzing will improve a defense....Strange how one LB provides a lift at all three...well not really...

Now the next guy that needs to be permanently removed is Weaver...


Dunta coming back, Two veteran safeties who have played on good to great teams, A faster more agressive WLB, and less Weaver have all led to a more agressive defesnse...

We now have the personnel to do different things on defense, whereas in the beggining of the year we didn't....



Our safety combo has more range and smarts than all the previous safeties we've had combined...We finally have some speed @ WLB (aka someone who can cover ground to make plays) and we are finally getting some push from the other side of the pocket...Weaver has even played better since his playing time has been reduced...lit a fire?

Strange how when players start doing things that weren't getting done b4 the defense plays better....Crazy world we live in where coordinators aren't puppet masters...

We've had atleast 5 significant personnel moves since the beggining of the season and the back end of the defense has gained some cohesion...The defesnses recent success is only an indictment of Richard Smith if you have't been paying attention, don't know what you're looking for, or are just too blinded by Richard Smith hate....

Richard Smith is the same guy he was at the beggining of the year...Just a guy....Nothing special, but not nearly the goon he's made out to be...

I'm rooting for the guy though just to spite those ill advised fans...

Polo
12-16-2008, 07:24 PM
Maybe next yr we could put "0-4" on the back of our guys' shorts....Maybe they'll start the season better if they've been conditioned to think they're already 0-4 all off season...You know...creating a sense of urgency and all that jazz...

Either that or "Merry Christmas" so they'll think it's December all season...

Lucky
12-16-2008, 08:11 PM
Did Richard Smith himself tell you that, or is that something that you chose to pull out of your (_!_) in order to make your...point? You have no idea what he's feeling.
I think he's feeling kinda Sunday.

Heck no. They don't play the game either. Frankly, the coaches have so little to do with results I don't know why the team has any. :rolleyes:
To take the credit for the historic 4 game winning streak, of course.

Maybe next yr we could put "0-4" on the back of our guys' shorts....Either that or "Merry Christmas" so they'll think it's December all season...
Rep.

The1ApplePie
12-16-2008, 09:35 PM
I'll give you the Cards and maybe the Colts and Pats, but the rest of those teams #2's aren't much better than K-Dub.

Pats - Welker
Cards - Bolden/Fitz - Awesome
Girls - Was Crayton now Roy Williams - Hasn't done diddly since signed
Steelers - Santonio Holmes
Giants - Toomer
Colts - Harrison

I'd take K-Dub over Crayton, Williams, Holmes, Toomer and the present Harrison.

I do understand where you're coming from Apple, but I just think WR is one of the last positions of need right now. I can agree with an upgrade at C and G, but most of the draft should go towards the defense.

My .02

We just need plain verticle speed with great jumping ability as well. Not talking first round but second and below would be a good spot.

As long as people don't go gaga over his combine numbers, Darius Heyward-Bay could be a great raw talent to develope in round 2 or 3.

thunderkyss
12-16-2008, 10:30 PM
I've heard this excuse to keep Smith a lot. I am not buying that anymore. I think we have talent enough on defense to be able to do whatever his real philosophy is. We had to have a coach feel that his job was already foregone before he started dialing up more pressure.

I think that there is enough stud-level talent and that there are plenty of players who can fill in adequately enough to make this defense a whole lot more of a handful for opposing offenses.

Anybody with me and think that the "No Talent" excuse is NOT a valid defense for Smith's terrible units for the first 9 weeks of the season?

And I was just thinking our boys were finally starting to understand what it is they are supposed to do.

I think they are finally starting to gel...... finally starting to click.

I do agree we still need help at the LB position. As much as I love 'Meco, as a group, we don't understand coverage and zone.

And I honestly believe Faggins, Reeves, and Bennett will progress to the lesson where they learn to look for the ball before game 1 of 2009.

I'm all about spending some money on a free agent Corner(I'd much rather draft a first round corner......

Amobi is starting to get some push(even though I think he was overshadowed by Del'Ron), and I've still got a feeling Okam will work his way into the starting Line-up next year.

Anyway, it was nice to see the extra blitzing, but we were getting good pressure with our front four all game long.

thunderkyss
12-16-2008, 10:45 PM
All you guys have it wrong...

It was Morlon...Been saying that since '05....

A better WLB does a lot of things for the defense...Crazy how better pass coverage, run stopping and blitzing will improve a defense....Strange how one LB provides a lift at all three...well not really...

When did Adibi leave the game?? I don't think there was much difference between Adibi & Greenwood.

And we can't cover shit. Collins was missing wide open reciever after wide open reciever, and we had two big PIs......
Mainly because he had big bodies all around his feet.

Dunta coming back,

hopefully there's a GM out there with as high an opinion of Dunta as yours. He couldn't cover crap before he got hurt, and he hasn't brought the wood like he used to, since he got back. He's our 3rd, 4th best corner on this team......

We now have the personnel to do different things on defense, whereas in the beggining of the year we didn't....

I'm not seeing that.



Our safety combo has more range and smarts than all the previous safeties we've had combined...

Ours safeties were beat with regularity yesterday, they took poor angles, and got blocked on several run plays...... I don't think what we put on the field Sunday was any different than the Earl/Brown combo. The front 4 made this game.

I know we didn't rack up a bunch of sacks, but you can tell Collins never could shake the feeling that he was about to get mauled.
[QUOTE=Polo;1078402]

Marcus
12-16-2008, 11:03 PM
We now have the personnel to do different things on defense, whereas in the beginning of the year we didn't....

Strange how when players start doing things that weren't getting done before the defense plays better....Crazy world we live in where coordinators aren't puppet masters...

We've had atleast 5 significant personnel moves since the beginning of the season and the back end of the defense has gained some cohesion...The defense's recent success is only an indictment of Richard Smith if you have't been paying attention, don't know what you're looking for, or are just too blinded by Richard Smith hate....

Richard Smith is the same guy he was at the beggining of the year...Just a guy....Nothing special, but not nearly the goon he's made out to be...

I'm rooting for the guy though just to spite those ill advised fans...

Aw man . . yeah! What he said, what he said, what. . he . . said. :tiphat:

ObsiWan
12-16-2008, 11:52 PM
X2 - receiver is the strongest position on the team. It has quality and depth. Kevin Walter has a chance to break 1,000 yards this year, which would give the Texans two receivers over 1,000 for the first time. David Anderson is good in the slot, and Andre Davis is a good backup/fourth receiver as evidenced by his play last year especially when AJ was out with the knee injury. I don't know why I am wasting my time typing this. There really isn't any room for discussion on this topic. :d: is where we need to make some upgrades.

I agree with this post except for one thing. I think they're not using Andre Davis properly. No way Anderson should be the #3 over a speed guy like Davis. When Andre J. went down last year, Andre D. stepped up big. Now it seems they don't use him enough. Anderson is a hard worker, but IMHO he's the weakest link. And if we had a decent WR coach who could properly school JJ, we'd really be set. Johnson, Walter, Davis, Jones... man, that's practically a 4 x 100 relay team.

ObsiWan
12-17-2008, 12:03 AM
We just need plain verticle speed with great jumping ability as well. Not talking first round but second and below would be a good spot.

As long as people don't go gaga over his combine numbers, Darius Heyward-Bay could be a great raw talent to develope in round 2 or 3.

That's too high a pick to use when we have more pressing needs than WR.

Besides, we have a guy with track speed and jumping ability - JJ. Why don't we "develop" him?

mussop
12-17-2008, 01:31 AM
I agree with this post except for one thing. I think they're not using Andre Davis properly. No way Anderson should be the #3 over a speed guy like Davis. When Andre J. went down last year, Andre D. stepped up big. Now it seems they don't use him enough. Anderson is a hard worker, but IMHO he's the weakest link. And if we had a decent WR coach who could properly school JJ, we'd really be set. Johnson, Walter, Davis, Jones... man, that's practically a 4 x 100 relay team.

Speed isnt everything!

signed Jerry Rice.

The1ApplePie
12-17-2008, 09:35 AM
That's too high a pick to use when we have more pressing needs than WR.

Besides, we have a guy with track speed and jumping ability - JJ. Why don't we "develop" him?

Nothing to develope with Jacoby Jones. He's proven he is a punt returner in the NFL and nothing more

DexmanC
12-17-2008, 10:12 AM
Nothing to develope with Jacoby Jones. He's proven he is a punt returner in the NFL and nothing more

Umm... The Bears are still "developing" Devin Hester, who sucks as a WR,
but once he gets his hands on the ball, it's all gravy. Jacoby Jones is
the exact type of player Hester is.

b0ng
12-17-2008, 10:13 AM
Nothing to develope with Jacoby Jones. He's proven he is a punt returner in the NFL and nothing more

To speak in such absolutes when a player is only in their second year is just silly. JJ has mad more than a few plays at WR in his short career.

Also, we don't need to draft another WR at all. Some lowly FA pick-ups are all we need for depth purposes, if we even bring in anybody at that spot.

Ole Miss Texan
12-17-2008, 10:25 AM
Jacoby is just now learning how to actually run with the ball in his hands. Swinging it out like a chicken wing isn't going to work in the NFL. Once he masters this trade, then I'll worry about his route running and focus.:)