PDA

View Full Version : O Line problems are Capers' fault


TexansNFL
01-04-2005, 11:26 PM
Last year, the O Line improved tremendously compared to the inaugural season. So what did Capers do in 2004? He allowed the O Line to switch to the zone blocking scheme not because the current personnel is best suited for it, but because one of his friends became available as an OL coach and he is a zone blocking so called expert... not only that, they took Pitts who was becoming a decent LT and moved him to LG where he has struggled all year long. Then having Wand as a LT proved to be a mistake, as evidenced by having another lineman come in as LT in passing situations. A comedy of errors!!! And why is McKinley still starting? Has anybody seem him get beat over and over? And nothing gets done...getting a real center would do wonders to reduce the number of sacks allowed

kuno
01-05-2005, 01:25 AM
I think if you are going to blame him for it, you gotta think about this.

Part of building a franchise from scratch is to start at the basics. Defensive Line and Offensive Line. I dont think he has given this area the attention it deserves in the draft for sure.

TEXANS84
01-05-2005, 04:00 AM
Part of building a franchise from scratch is to start at the basics. Defensive Line and Offensive Line. I dont think he has given this area the attention it deserves in the draft for sure.

Absolutely. You start in the trenches...hence the Tony Boselli/Gary Walker pick.

nunusguy
01-05-2005, 07:12 AM
Last year, the O Line improved tremendously compared to the inaugural season. So what did Capers do in 2004? He allowed the O Line to switch to the zone blocking scheme not because the current personnel is best suited for it, but because one of his friends became available as an OL coach and he is a zone blocking so called expert... not only that, they took Pitts who was becoming a decent LT and moved him to LG where he has struggled all year long. Then having Wand as a LT proved to be a mistake, as evidenced by having another lineman come in as LT in passing situations. A comedy of errors!!! And why is McKinley still starting? Has anybody seem him get beat over and over? And nothing gets done...getting a real center would do wonders to reduce the number of sacks allowed
As has been pointed out many times by others on this board, zone blocking is
related to rushing plays and not pass blocking, and the latter is where our main problems are so far as O line performance. In view of DDs performance
in the last part of the season, our conversion to zone blocking is starting to pay dividends.

TexansTrueFan
01-05-2005, 07:16 AM
do some of you people even know what the zone blocking scheme is ??? And yes We started to see the affect of affective RUN zone blocking in the later part of the season. He started getting, 8.1, 5.3, and 6.1 Running Averages. Which is very good. See its all about the line !

rittenhouserobz
01-05-2005, 07:32 AM
I hope the OL stays together. Experience breeds continuity. I believe that the guys we have will be vastly improved next season. Doesn't the Center make "line call" or something like that? I am sure we need a new Center, but what is going to be the tradeoff? I hope its not experience.

infantrycak
01-05-2005, 07:59 AM
do some of you people even know what the zone blocking scheme is ??? And yes We started to see the affect of affective RUN zone blocking in the later part of the season. He started getting, 8.1, 5.3, and 6.1 Running Averages. Which is very good. See its all about the line !

To follow up with the year end results the OL has on RB performance:

Clinton Portis 2004 3.8 ypc, 5 TD's, 5 20+ runs
As a reminder what he looked like behind a good OL 2003: 5.5 ypc, 14 TD's, 13 20+ runs
Domanick Davis 2004 3.9 ypc, 13 TD's, 5 20+ runs
Games 1-8 3.0 ypc
Games 9-16 4.6 ypc

[disclaimer for those incapable of understanding every comparison of players doesn't mean someone is saying they are the same--no I am not saying DD is just as good as Portis]

Texan Gal 312
01-05-2005, 08:03 AM
This morning's chronicle indicates both Pendry (our OL coach) and our defensive line coach (can't call his name) are possibilities for Saban's coordinator positions at Miami. As they are under contract, Texans would have to grant permission. Interesting.

Anybody know how Wand's season compared to Robert Gallery's in Oakland. The little I saw of Gallery he didn't look like instant success.

nunusguy
01-05-2005, 08:20 AM
Anybody know how Wand's season compared to Robert Gallery's in Oakland. The little I saw of Gallery he didn't look like instant success.
Gallery was not good enough to displace the Raiders starting LT, they then tried him at guard, and he finally cracked the starting lineup @ RT. And this guy was the #2 overall pick in one of the strongest drafts in years ! Al Davis
had a big time senior moment on Gallery, 'cause the second coming of Tony
Bosselli he ain't. Wand is hanging in their as our LT. He's had some tough games (like against Freeney, but everyone does), but unlike Gallery we got
value ffor our investment (3rd round pick).

TexansTrueFan
01-05-2005, 08:24 AM
To follow up with the year end results the OL has on RB performance:

Clinton Portis 2004 3.8 ypc, 5 TD's, 5 20+ runs
As a reminder what he looked like behind a good OL 2003: 5.5 ypc, 14 TD's, 13 20+ runs
Domanick Davis 2004 3.9 ypc, 13 TD's, 5 20+ runs
Games 1-8 3.0 ypc
Games 9-16 4.6 ypc

[disclaimer for those incapable of understanding every comparison of players doesn't mean someone is saying they are the same--no I am not saying DD is just as good as Portis]


i think D.D could be as good as portis our any back out there. I think he was to focused on not fumbling the first half of the season, but the second half he seemed to pick it up a little, and the line seemed to be blocking a little better as well. Well run blocking anyways. I feel Davis can be our long term feature back !

rhc564
01-05-2005, 08:43 AM
Ok, so our new blocking scheme is designed for power running and does
not change pass blocking in anyway-- fine, please explain to me why our
pass blocking was so horrible. From very elementary stages of his football
life, an OL learns (or is suppose to) the art of pass blocking...i.e., forming
a protective pocket for the QB. We are talking about years of pass blocking
before a player gets to the pros, so why are the Texans so bad at it??
Too, tell me it's not true that one of the OL said in an interview that our OL
is one of the 10 best-- at poor pass protection, maybe. :hairpull:

Lucky
01-05-2005, 09:24 AM
Anybody know how Wand's season compared to Robert Gallery's in Oakland. The little I saw of Gallery he didn't look like instant success.
Wand at LT led all offensive linemen with 12.5 sacks allowed. On the bright side, I felt he improved as a run blocker as the season went along as DD averaged 4.6 yards/carry the last half of the season.

Gallery started 15 games at RT and allowed 2.5 sacks, but committed 13 penalties over the course of the season (opposed to Wand's 3 penalties). The Raiders were at the bottom in rushing yards, but that probably has more to do with having by far the fewest rushing attempts. Gallery didn't win the Raiders LT job, but Oakland does have a pretty solid guy in Barry Sims. But, let's be realistic. If Gallery is on the Texans roster, he's the starting LT over Wand.

nunusguy
01-05-2005, 12:39 PM
Got done lookin at the tape of Sundays game and it's not as discouraging
as I'd origionally thought re the O-line. Wand played a descent game and I feel pretty good about Wade on the other side - if we can count on these 2,
who are both young, we're more than half the way there in establishing our
line because the tackles are the nucleus of that unit and where the big bucks have to be spent (for reference, see Miami FA T.Wade in '03-'04 offseason).
Poor old Milford Browm, who is filling for the injured Weigert, had a horrible day - he looked good run blocking against the Jags week before but the Browns' DT 'cross from him Sunday was whipping him big time in pass protection. He gave up atleast 2 or 3 sacks,
had a gob of false starts, and holding penalitie(s). Pitts didn't look too good, but I believe he was playing injured.
We can get top guards and centers in the draft with 2nd & 3rd round picks, they aren't nearly as pricey as the tackles.
But Wand is progressing nicely.

F-minus67
01-05-2005, 12:49 PM
i think that everyone is being a little hard on the o line. i mean carr, davis, and aj have only had to learn one scheme, while the o line has moved from one to another. not to mention that they keep getting new players and the coaches keep moving players around from position to postion.

TexansTrueFan
01-05-2005, 02:08 PM
i think that everyone is being a little hard on the o line. i mean carr, davis, and aj have only had to learn one scheme, while the o line has moved from one to another. not to mention that they keep getting new players and the coaches keep moving players around from position to postion.


Well the new zone blocking scheme does not change during pass protection, only while we are running the ball !

brickmantexanfan
01-05-2005, 02:18 PM
Reality check people,it is true Dom is the man in Charge so yes every single problem is his fault because he is the one that approved it all,now lets start talking about how the grass is green and the sun is warm and stop blaming people it's not who's to blame it's how is it going to be fixed,it sounds like a bunch of children in here blameing everyone from the waterboy to mcnair (exaggeration)but still na forget it i am going to bed

TexansTrueFan
01-05-2005, 02:23 PM
hmmm blameing people, i respect our 7-9 season, some expected the play-offs, they just set themselves up for dissapointment !

F-minus67
01-05-2005, 03:10 PM
it may not change when your passing or running, but one flaw in the zone blocking scheme is the linemen are beat more often by stunts and overload rushes to one side since that puts one than one person in one of the linemans zones so the extra rusher gets to the qb. denver combats this by playing dirty with leg wips, cuts and holding. according to the preseason issue of si, "But as long as the refs let Dan Neil hold on every play -which they do- the interior of that line will be strong...." - an opposing scout's view

kuno
01-05-2005, 05:19 PM
Absolutely. You start in the trenches...hence the Tony Boselli/Gary Walker pick.

I dont think enough effort was provided to secure a replacment if Boselli was unable to play. I was really surprised that a franchise LT was not a clear objective when it became clear Boselli was a issue.

Vinny
01-05-2005, 05:22 PM
I dont think enough effort was provided to secure a replacment if Boselli was unable to play. I was really surprised that a franchise LT was not a clear objective when it became clear Boselli was a issue.They don't grown on trees. Look at the first two years we drafted. We could have taken Bryant McKinnie (Vikings) but we give up Carr to take a "Franchise LT" instead of a Franchise QB. The next year we could have taken Jordan Gross (the best Tackle in that draft) but we would pass on AJ. You can only do so much, so fast since every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Frankly, I'd rather have Carr than McKinney and AJ over Gross when it comes to selecting Franchise players with our first two drafts. Those were the two best tackles in their respective classes. There have not been too many "can't miss" Linemen out there after round one.

kuno
01-05-2005, 05:22 PM
Gallery was not good enough to displace the Raiders starting LT, they then tried him at guard, and he finally cracked the starting lineup @ RT. And this guy was the #2 overall pick in one of the strongest drafts in years ! Al Davis
had a big time senior moment on Gallery, 'cause the second coming of Tony
Bosselli he ain't. Wand is hanging in their as our LT. He's had some tough games (like against Freeney, but everyone does), but unlike Gallery we got
value ffor our investment (3rd round pick).

I would not write Gallery off so soon. It was tough being a lineman on the Raiders this year in addition to being a rookie. If I could have Gallery instead of a first round pick this year I would take him in a instant.

I dont think the Texans line is as bad as a lot of fans think it is. There is more to blame than just the line. They provided solid blocking this year against some very good defenses...like the Jags, as was pointed out in post above.