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View Full Version : Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?


Big Lou
12-11-2008, 11:22 AM
Many coaches and analyst think that great or elite QB's make a big transition in thier 3rd year.

What is everyones opinion of how this applys to Schaub. I always understood that this applied to QB's entering thier 3rd year as the starter regardless of thier number of years in the NFL.

Thoughts?

barrett
12-11-2008, 11:43 AM
There is no question he has the potential to be an excellent QB. His accuracy, vision and decision making (for the most) part suggest a chance for greatness. He's been hurt and has yet to play a full season. He's basically played two half-seasons so I'm not ready to say he'll become elite next year but there is no question in my mind that he has the tools. As the overall system becomes more and more oiled you can expect to see his numbers to continue to be top 5.

He is a very good quarterback.

GP
12-11-2008, 12:25 PM
I'll say this:

I have been a very, very, very tough critic on Schaub.

But the game he cranked out last Sunday vs. GB...now THAT is what I expected from him when we acquired him. THAT was the Schaub who handily beat the Chiefs and Panthers in the first two games last year.

If Schaub doesn't regress in these last games...he's going to make it. Barring some injury, which seems to find the guy a lot, he's going to completely erase what I have thought about him.

I just have not seen the guy play the way he played vs. GB. That was a ballsy performance despite how many times we didn't hit paydirt and allowed GB to claw back into the game each time.

Goldensilence
12-11-2008, 12:30 PM
I think Schaub would've turned he proverbial corner much earlier if injuries haven't derailed his progress. Good news is it looks like he has used the time between injuries well. Might not have a cannon arm but outside that he's got all the tools to be a top tier QB. The commitment now has to be in finishing the OL by the front office.

DiehardChris
12-11-2008, 12:41 PM
I'll say this:

I have been a very, very, very tough critic on Schaub.

But the game he cranked out last Sunday vs. GB...now THAT is what I expected from him when we acquired him. THAT was the Schaub who handily beat the Chiefs and Panthers in the first two games last year.


When you say you expected this from him, how do you mean? Like every once in a while? Because that's not something that ANY quarterback can do on a regular basis. It's not like Schaub was a HoFamer in waiting... he's potentially a very good QB who I think could even make a pro bowl or two.

It's all about health with Schaub, of course... but the thing I point to that makes me continue to think he's the guy (which I've always thought he was), is that twice now he's led the team down in final two-minute, game-winning drives. That's just not something all QBs can do.

He's done it twice this year, plus a game-tying drive in Jacksonville... and if they'd won the coin toss... I think a lot of us agree we were headed for a win.

So that's two game-winning drives in the last two minutes, and one game-tying drive... out of only EIGHT GAMES that he's started. I bet not even Hall of Fame QBs have a much higher percentage in a given single season.

Translation - he's not just good - he's a WINNER. He just has to stay healthy.

BigBull17
12-11-2008, 12:47 PM
He is very good when he gets hot. He also recovers from mistakes well. Too bad he gets boomed all the time. Just protect him, and play to his strengths, and he will be good. Just not great( top tier)

threetoedpete
12-11-2008, 12:50 PM
when he is healthy....he's highly accurate and productive.

Third year...you start looking for prospects and pick one in '09 or '10.

He has been hurt two years running. One more year and it's more than a trend. We're four deep with guys who can cover OLT...and me and beerlover are arguing over when to take one in the draft in April. We don't mind over stocking offensive lineman with his injury history. His "pay me" money kicks in in '10. Better have a plan and your ducks in a row. The question they'll have to answer in '10 is , is he worth ten million a year ?


We can go to the SB with MS....if we can keep him clean. Or have a great back up on the roster.

The only question they have with QB position is will Sage Quit pressing and except his roll as the back up. Every time Sage presses, bad things happen. If the answer is no, you let him walk and start over with a back up. I can forgive him Rosencopter....but only if he promises never, ever, to do it again. I don't know if he can do that or not.

DiehardChris
12-11-2008, 12:51 PM
Forgot to add - a good performance against the Titans would help. Schaub has yet to do well against one of these super-aggressive, intensely-physical defenses.

Thorn
12-11-2008, 01:05 PM
Forgot to add - a good performance against the Titans would help. Schaub has yet to do well against one of these super-aggressive, intensely-physical defenses.


Not just Schub, the whole team. Until the Texans prove they can beat the good teams, we are what we are. I think Schaub has proved that as long as he is standing upright, he is a very good QB.

OzzO
12-11-2008, 01:16 PM
Seems his fragility has been brought up quite a few times, resonably so, but those have been some major hits on him. Flip side of "is he fragile" question would then be - can he not break free of the pass rush or does he not feel when to move up, back, over, or just run?

threetoedpete
12-11-2008, 01:22 PM
Seems his fragility has been brought up quite a few times, resonably so, but those have been some major hits on him. Flip side of "is he fragile" question would then be - can he not break free of the pass rush or does he not feel when to move up, back, over, or just run?

My major question after putting the green bay game away on DVD this morning...do we have a tell when we run the waggle (runing back off takle fake dive, QB reverse piviots on a naked boot leg.). Is one of our guys giving the play away, telegraphing something pre snap ? I know Mike McCarthy is a WCO guru....but that was some highly productive guessing Sunday.

GP
12-11-2008, 01:40 PM
When you say you expected this from him, how do you mean? Like every once in a while? Because that's not something that ANY quarterback can do on a regular basis. It's not like Schaub was a HoFamer in waiting... he's potentially a very good QB who I think could even make a pro bowl or two.

It's all about health with Schaub, of course... but the thing I point to that makes me continue to think he's the guy (which I've always thought he was), is that twice now he's led the team down in final two-minute, game-winning drives. That's just not something all QBs can do.

He's done it twice this year, plus a game-tying drive in Jacksonville... and if they'd won the coin toss... I think a lot of us agree we were headed for a win.

So that's two game-winning drives in the last two minutes, and one game-tying drive... out of only EIGHT GAMES that he's started. I bet not even Hall of Fame QBs have a much higher percentage in a given single season.

Translation - he's not just good - he's a WINNER. He just has to stay healthy.

When you give up 2 second rounders, for two straight drafts, you're saying that the guy is supposed to be pretty good. Otherwise, draft and cross your fingers.

He looked good in the first two games of last season, but in my opinion he was pretty average the rest of the way. Throw in the injuries and missed games, and it gets to be a toe-tapping situation considering what we gave up for him.

2 second rounders, for a team needing younger/better guys at so many positions, was a steep price.

He played smart against GB: He threw it away when he needed to, he hung in the pocket even when getting pressured. He took a hit and popped back up. And most importantly, he drove us down the field and refused to make the mental mistake that has plagued Texans QBs, especially on the road.

GB is nails, and looks a lot like our team right now. Playing in Lambeau, and coming out a winner? This is the kind of crow I like to eat, not when we were beating up on Dolphins/Lions/Bengals.

infantrycak
12-11-2008, 01:46 PM
This is the kind of crow I like to eat, not when we were beating up on Dolphins/Lions/Bengals.

You do realize the Dolphins are 8-5 right?

eriadoc
12-11-2008, 01:50 PM
I'll say this:

I have been a very, very, very tough critic on Schaub.

But the game he cranked out last Sunday vs. GB...now THAT is what I expected from him when we acquired him. THAT was the Schaub who handily beat the Chiefs and Panthers in the first two games last year.

If a QB throws for 250 yards and 2 TDs a game, that's 4000 yards and 32 TDs for the season. There are VERY, VERY FEW QBs that do that in a year, much less consistently.

GP
12-11-2008, 01:51 PM
Seems his fragility has been brought up quite a few times, resonably so, but those have been some major hits on him. Flip side of "is he fragile" question would then be - [B]can he not break free of the pass rush or does he not feel when to move up, back, over, or just run?{/B]

This has been my major "gripe" about the guy. But i have been told he has no problem with footwork or anything like that. I definitely think he has those issues of not feeling where the pressure is, how close it is to him, and how to adjust even just a tiny little bit to stay upright long enough to throw.

However...he looked better in the GB game than any of the other games dating back to a long, long time ago. I saw him keeping his balance, keeping his shoulders square and generally getting the ball out when he should have. He didn't do that in the games where he's been injured by a pass rusher.

That's why Haynesworth is so open about saying what he has said about Schaub: "Get to Matt and he crumbles under the harassment." Well, I think Albert is not counting on the Texans learning from the previous meetings. Based on what I saw in the game vs. GB...things are turning around.

I think this is the game where the silliness ends. I don't normally come out and say "This game is ours." I only do it when I se the signs. The signs point toward a home game, a QB who stayed upright in Lambeau and came out the victor after several turnovers out of his control, and the Titans having locked up a first-round bye and thinking that we're "The Same Old Texans! LOL!"

I think we have a team that is frustrated that they didn't play better the first part of the season, and they are taking it out on the remaining opponents. They are trying to end this season the way they know they should have STARTED this season. Normally, we see this sort of attitude out of the guys in the very last game: We get excited, and we think that it means something. I think this year, we're seeing this team string together a whole bunch of wins at the end of the season to make the statement of "We're going to start out THE RIGHT WAY next season."

I thought Kubiak was on the ropes. I thought Schaub was on the ropes. I wondered if things might not spiral downward toward the end of the season. Well, this thing is a-l-i-v-e. It's like Hulkamania, bruther.

Wolf6151
12-11-2008, 01:58 PM
Schaub is a good QB and will get even better if we improve our O-line at C and RG. Improvement could come in the form of new draft picks or getting Myers and Brisiel to each bulk up with about 15 lbs. of muscle. Both of these guys have the skills to be good O-linemen but lack the size. If you improve the O-line and protection, Schaub will lead us to the playoffs. As for bulking up Schaub a good weight lifting program would do him good as well. With a little more muscle Schaub would be able to stand the hits/punishment better.

GP
12-11-2008, 02:08 PM
You do realize the Dolphins are 8-5 right?

And I don't know why. I mean, I have Ronnie Brown on my fantasy football league...so I keep up with their games...and it's amazing. I really don't think they are all that good.

WINS (8):

They beat the Patriots (1) early in the season, but the Patriots have been squirrely this year. Beat SD (2) , but the same can be said for how SD played early this year. I think they caught those teams at just the right time.

Beat the Bills twice (3 and 4), but that's not anything special.

Beat the Broncos (5), but the Broncos seem to take every-other-game off. There isn't any more Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde team than Denver right now.

Beat the Seahawks (6) , so no need to type any more about that one. Same goes for them beating Oakland (7) and St. Louis (8). It's expected.

LOSSES (5):

Lost to the Jets and the Cardinals (1 and 2).

They took us to the wire, and probably should have won (3).

Lost to Baltimore (4) and New England (5) once NE revived a little bit from a tough start of the season.

I'd say 5 of those wins were against poor opponents: Oakland, St. Louis, Seahawks, and Bills (twice). Throw in the way SD and NE are this year, and there's another 2 wins that are not really an indication of how "good" Miami is.

I say Miami is a lot like us, but they just took advantage of thinsg better than we did. I also think Hurricane Ike was a big reason behind our bad start. I'm up in the very very northern part of Texas, so I didn't experience the damage, the pain, and the blow to the psyche of all of ya'll down there. But this team was probably not even caring that much about winning/losing during that time. Sure, you can suck it up and try. But...damn, those games and these games sure seem to have different paths.

GP
12-11-2008, 02:13 PM
If a QB throws for 250 yards and 2 TDs a game, that's 4000 yards and 32 TDs for the season. There are VERY, VERY FEW QBs that do that in a year, much less consistently.

Schaub has had his fair share of turnovers that doesn't get mentioned much, and that impacts the games. Yeah, a QB isn't going to "wow" all season long...buthe needs to protect the ball, throw it away when necessary, tuck it and run at the right times, etc.

Schaub was trying to do too much, too often. It's a great character trait and a bad one all at the same time as an NFL QB.

He found that happy balance vs. GB. A lot of people think I want to see Schaub fail, that I'd be glad if he got hurt. Completely untrue. I was geeked out of my mind by the time the game was over. Haven't felt that way since we beat the Colts at Reliant on the leg of Kris Brown.

That was, for me, one of the best Texans games ever. And I think it had a lot to do with the QB doing whatever he could, but also knowing his limits.

infantrycak
12-11-2008, 02:24 PM
Schaub has had his fair share of turnovers that doesn't get mentioned much, and that impacts the games. Yeah, a QB isn't going to "wow" all season long...buthe needs to protect the ball, throw it away when necessary, tuck it and run at the right times, etc.

Schaub was trying to do too much, too often. It's a great character trait and a bad one all at the same time as an NFL QB.

Have you actually examined the season for Schaub? He started the season against the currently #1 and #3 defenses. In those two games it was horrible team wide (remember AJ with three dropped TD's) and Schaub contributed to that.

First 2 games: 195 ypg, 1 TD, 5 INT, 8 sacks, QB rating 50.3.

Since then: 298 ypg, 11 TD's, 4 INT's, 9 sacks, QB rating 108.2.

eriadoc
12-11-2008, 02:30 PM
Schaub has had his fair share of turnovers that doesn't get mentioned much, and that impacts the games. Yeah, a QB isn't going to "wow" all season long...buthe needs to protect the ball, throw it away when necessary, tuck it and run at the right times, etc.

Schaub was trying to do too much, too often. It's a great character trait and a bad one all at the same time as an NFL QB.

He found that happy balance vs. GB. A lot of people think I want to see Schaub fail, that I'd be glad if he got hurt. Completely untrue. I was geeked out of my mind by the time the game was over. Haven't felt that way since we beat the Colts at Reliant on the leg of Kris Brown.

That was, for me, one of the best Texans games ever. And I think it had a lot to do with the QB doing whatever he could, but also knowing his limits.

Hey, I've been banging the turnover drum all season long. People want to blame Kubiak or others, and I've been saying all along the #1 reason we've been losing is turnovers from one position - the QB. So I agree with that. I'm just saying that 4000 yards and 32 TDs is a bit unrealistic for expectations. We can't expect to see 414 yards passing very often.

eriadoc
12-11-2008, 02:31 PM
Have you actually examined the season for Schaub? He started the season against the currently #1 and #3 defenses. In those two games it was horrible team wide (remember AJ with three dropped TD's) and Schaub contributed to that.

First 2 games: 195 ypg, 1 TD, 5 INT, 8 sacks, QB rating 50.3.

Since then: 298 ypg, 11 TD's, 4 INT's, 9 sacks, QB rating 108.2.

So he needs to play well against the good teams, as does the rest of the team.

infantrycak
12-11-2008, 02:37 PM
So he needs to play well against the good teams, as does the rest of the team.

Absolutely. If they want to be a good team, they as a team need to learn to stand up to good teams.

GP
12-11-2008, 03:31 PM
Hey, I've been banging the turnover drum all season long. People want to blame Kubiak or others, and I've been saying all along the #1 reason we've been losing is turnovers from one position - the QB. So I agree with that. I'm just saying that 4000 yards and 32 TDs is a bit unrealistic for expectations. We can't expect to see 414 yards passing very often.

I don't think that we need 400-yard performances out of a QB every game.

Let me clarify, again: The way Matt Schaub handled the position, stayed calm under pressure, threw it away when he should have, and didn't choke when it looked like everyone around him WAS (Jacoby, Owen, and Slaton deep in the red zone with a costly fumble)..and do all this with a last-minute drive to seal the win IN LAMBEAU was something that erased my doubts quite a bit. I don't remember mentioning his yardage and TD stats. It was the way he handled things that made him look the way he did the first two games of last season, the way I thought he would have been on a more consistent basis.

And I don't think beating Miami this season was all that and a bag of chips. yuou look at the teams Miami has beaten, and even the way they beat some of the better teams they beat...and it puts the Dolphins game in proper perspective: We're a lot like the Dolphins except the Dolphins were able to take advantage of things better than we have this year.

I'm trying to say that Matt Schaub stoned up last Sunday, which was something I didn't expect. I have to admit that I figured he'd get hurt, or the cold weather would freeze his knee up, or that the team would buckle and Schaub would go that path, too. Schaub, Slaton, Leach, DeMeco, and Kris Brown all came up huge...Schaub the hugest.

GP
12-11-2008, 03:37 PM
So he needs to play well against the good teams, as does the rest of the team.

Yeah, but that's the deal: everyone's ready to call out Mario when he's sucking. Everyone wants to scape-goat Jacques Reeves every time we turn around. But when the starting QB isn't performing well, there's a seemingly endless barrage of reasons why it's not his fault.

I am tired of hanging our hat on beating teams equal-to or less-than our team. This team has GOT to beat the tougher teams, even at a freaking 30% clip for all I care. Just beat a really good team 1/3rd of the time, please. One out of three is a fair expectation isn't it?

And...winning out this season, for Schaub, will do it for me. If our defense loses it for us, then I understand. But if Schaub screws the pooch against the remaining teams, and I am talking 3 or 4 turnovers and missing his receivers, getting sacked 4 or 5 or 6 times, not throwing the ball away, etc., then we're right back where we started.

At some point, can someone at QB just carry this team over the obstacle?

Yankee_In_TX
12-11-2008, 03:45 PM
But when the starting QB isn't performing well, there's a seemingly endless barrage of reasons why it's not his fault.

Really? Before Green Bay weren't all but 2 of our turnovers attributable to QB's?

Kinda' hard to argue that's not his (their) fault.

GP
12-11-2008, 03:50 PM
Really? Before Green Bay weren't all but 2 of our turnovers attributable to QB's?

Kinda' hard to argue that's not his (their) fault.

And how many threads did you see where the fans on here were lambasting Matt Schaub? I mean, come on...the posters here protect Schaub better than the oline does.

It's always been "What would life be like if our starting QB was not injured?"

The board was prepped last week for a Schaub implosion: "If our running game doesn't produce, we're screwed..." and "I don't think Matt should start or play because of the cold, and because the season is a wash..." etc.

Sage makes the bad decisions, and Schaub's interceptions and fumbles are just flukes. Matt was nails against a good team, in realllly bad weather, at a very intense stadium of Packers fans, and when players around him were trying to give the game away. It's not my fault that he waited almost two full seasons before showing some clutch.

infantrycak
12-11-2008, 04:25 PM
And how many threads did you see where the fans on here were lambasting Matt Schaub? I mean, come on...the posters here protect Schaub better than the oline does.

It's always been "What would life be like if our starting QB was not injured?"

The board was prepped last week for a Schaub implosion: "If our running game doesn't produce, we're screwed..." and "I don't think Matt should start or play because of the cold, and because the season is a wash..." etc.

Sage makes the bad decisions, and Schaub's interceptions and fumbles are just flukes. Matt was nails against a good team, in realllly bad weather, at a very intense stadium of Packers fans, and when players around him were trying to give the game away. It's not my fault that he waited almost two full seasons before showing some clutch.

List of desperate acts in the place of a reasoned argument:

1
2
3
4
5. Resorting to self-serving characterizations of the MB you are posting on.
6
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.
.

taruky
12-11-2008, 04:40 PM
And how many threads did you see where the fans on here were lambasting Matt Schaub? I mean, come on...the posters here protect Schaub better than the oline does.

It's always been "What would life be like if our starting QB was not injured?"

The board was prepped last week for a Schaub implosion: "If our running game doesn't produce, we're screwed..." and "I don't think Matt should start or play because of the cold, and because the season is a wash..." etc.

Sage makes the bad decisions, and Schaub's interceptions and fumbles are just flukes. Matt was nails against a good team, in realllly bad weather, at a very intense stadium of Packers fans, and when players around him were trying to give the game away. It's not my fault that he waited almost two full seasons before showing some clutch.

I think that Jacksonvile and Miami games showed plenty of clutch. If you are looking for clutch against the Steelers and Titans, please show me a QB that has shiown that besides Favre vs. Tennessee. The Steelers have made mincemeat out of Cassell, Romo, and Campbell. Eli and McNabb had very so so games against them.

kastofsna
12-12-2008, 07:48 AM
i made a stupid like QB ranking system similar to the passer rating but better because i made it, anyway here's how it worked out for this year:

1. Rivers - 104.25
2. Warner - 100.33
3. Romo - 96.70
4. Brees - 94.88
5. Schaub - 94.43
6. Garcia - 94.25
7. Pennington - 93.87
8. E Manning - 92.87
9. P Manning - 91.57
10. Rodgers - 91.17

so Schaub is already one of the best QB's in the league, as evidenced by this accurate ranking system

GP
12-12-2008, 08:43 AM
List of desperate acts in the place of a reasoned argument:

1
2
3
4
5. Resorting to self-serving characterizations of the MB you are posting on.
6
.
.
.

That doesn't negate the blatant protecting of Schaub when he does poorly, and the glorifying of Schaub when he does well. It's standard procedure for fans to protect the starting QB, especially when so much was invested in him.

There's a sense of homerish pride in making sure the deal for Schaub isn't viewed as a foolish one. So many people on here care about what the media thinks of us, how the draft analysts rank our moves, and on and on and on...so the motivations are clear: Schaub MUST succeed. We can will him to win if we drink enough Kool Aid and rationalize and justify.

There is no other position on a football team that gets so much "blind" allegiance as that of the starting QB. A backup QB could come in at week 12 and win all the rest of the games, including playoff games, and there would be front-page national media controversy if the starter was able to come back and play in the Super Bowl. I've always been a "play the guy with the hot hand" fan, but so many people take a socialist unionized viewpoint: Give the guy his job back when he's able to come back, and screw the guy who was doing the heavy lifting while the other was gone for 2 months.

I didn't know I couldn't criticize this board or those who post on it. Seems that's what goes on all day long on this thing.

I have made valid arguments as to why I think Matt has an uphill battle: He generally hasn't responded to dline pressure very well, something that hurts the whole team when we play stronger teams (And I believe that we're not really a good team until we can pull off a win against a strong team every now and then, not once every 7 years). His drop-steps, agility inside the pocket, and ability to adjust (to me) look sluggish and half-hearted. And he has made bone-headed throws or has fumbled the ball too much.

Yet the main theme on here is that he has a lot of potential. As a fan who waited on David Carr to grow into the guy that he had the "potential" to grow into, I just don't care to wait 3 or 4 years to find out if Matt can make it. Now, the GB game was definitely a breath of fresh air. He needed that game, and I wonder if he knew that it was a fork in the road for him. The guy played the best he's ever played.

But it's not enough for me to say those positive things that I stated over and over after the game Sunday. I have to marry the guy and endlessly praise him all day, I guess. :texflag:

Goatcheese
12-12-2008, 10:13 AM
Matt Schaub complete games, full season projection

67.4% completions 4,656 yards 8.0 ypa 27TDs 18INTs 4RushTD

Peyton Manning's 2nd year

62.1% completions 4,135 yards 7.8 ypa 26TDs 15INTs 2RushTD

Schaub needs to cut down on the turn overs, and he's an elite QB.

Wouldn't hurt if he stayed healthy. :gun:

kastofsna
12-12-2008, 10:34 AM
There is no other position on a football team that gets so much "blind" allegiance as that of the starting QB.
i'd say the backup QB gets a lot of that as well. it's split on every message board in the NFL who has a team with a QB who isn't a Manning or Brady; one side is pro-starter, the other side is pro-backup.

i'm with infantry here, you're pointing to one side of the coin to support your argument and ignoring the other side, which doesn't really support your claim. most fans make up their mind in advance on a player and will go out of their way to support OR bash him no matter what. you'll find as many post going out of their way to praise Schaub as you'll find posts who will find every little flaw in his game. it's the nature of fandom, it's the nature of the NFL message board

disaacks3
12-12-2008, 10:57 AM
Have you actually examined the season for Schaub? He started the season against the currently #1 and #3 defenses. In those two games it was horrible team wide (remember AJ with three dropped TD's) and Schaub contributed to that.

First 2 games: 195 ypg, 1 TD, 5 INT, 8 sacks, QB rating 50.3.

Since then: 298 ypg, 11 TD's, 4 INT's, 9 sacks, QB rating 108.2. I remember AJ's dropped passes, though I'm trying to remember if two drops were on the same drive (I'd only count those two as ONE in that case).

The O-Line w/ a rookie LT & 2nd RB (Green Started) was trying to gel, so I give them lots of leeway early on, but here's where it all needs to start coming together.

IMHO - You either start finding a way to 'get it done' against the best, or there isn't much point. Steelers / Titans were telling, but we didn't look too hot against the Ravens (another Great "D"), and while I'm aware that wasn't Schaub, I'm not sure it would've made much of a difference.

I think Schaub had a 'gutsy' game against the Pack, but his rust was showing with several floaters he got away with...starting with his first TD pass. (Walter bailed him out nicely) While I agree with the school of letting your bigger guy "go up and get it", I'm not convinced that it was purposefully underthrown that poorly. THIS game, against the Titans and his Ghosts of Sacks Past across the line in the form of Haynesworth & VandenBosch will tell a far more accurate tale of how far he's come and how far the Texans need to go.

DexmanC
12-12-2008, 11:55 AM
I think Schaub had a 'gutsy' game against the Pack, but his rust was showing with several floaters he got away with...starting with his first TD pass.

Uh... Schaub held the ball till the last minute, and was CREAMED as the
ball was released. The pass was still on-the-money.

GP
12-12-2008, 12:09 PM
I remember AJ's dropped passes, though I'm trying to remember if two drops were on the same drive (I'd only count those two as ONE in that case).

The O-Line w/ a rookie LT & 2nd RB (Green Started) was trying to gel, so I give them lots of leeway early on, but here's where it all needs to start coming together.

IMHO - You either start finding a way to 'get it done' against the best, or there isn't much point. Steelers / Titans were telling, but we didn't look too hot against the Ravens (another Great "D"), and while I'm aware that wasn't Schaub, I'm not sure it would've made much of a difference.

I think Schaub had a 'gutsy' game against the Pack, but his rust was showing with several floaters he got away with...starting with his first TD pass. (Walter bailed him out nicely) While I agree with the school of letting your bigger guy "go up and get it", I'm not convinced that it was purposefully underthrown that poorly. THIS game, against the Titans and his Ghosts of Sacks Past across the line in the form of Haynesworth & VandenBosch will tell a far more accurate tale of how far he's come and how far the Texans need to go.

Well-said.

Duane Brown has his work cut out for him. And Kubiak and Schaub should know that, and they should set Matt up for as much asuccess as possible...in the form of lots of quick timing throws to get the ball o-u-t. Throw in the screen passes, the shovel passes, all the little things that take advantage of a bull rushing dline that races up the field as much as possible.

We basically need something FRESH against the Titans. We've tried being stubborn with the running game right off the bat, then falling behind and needing to throw a lot, which compounds the problem. I think even a two-minute "style", no-huddle offense to start off our first possession would help things a lot...it keeps Titans personnel on the field, confuses and hinders their playcalling, and gets Matt and the offense into a rhythm.

This has the potential to be a turn-the-corner game, IMO. But...I am skeptical of Kubiak's ability to bring freshness to the table when necessity dictates such a deviance from the norm.

Just keeping Schaub upright vs. the Titans would be a plus, btw.

disaacks3
12-12-2008, 12:23 PM
Uh... Schaub held the ball till the last minute, and was CREAMED as the ball was released. The pass was still on-the-money. On the $$??? IT was WAYYYYYYYYYY underthrown. Did he take a big, gutsy hit? Sure, and plenty of Kudos to him for that, but please, for the love of God, do NOT call that an "on-the money" pass.

b0ng
12-12-2008, 01:06 PM
Uh... Schaub held the ball till the last minute, and was CREAMED as the
ball was released. The pass was still on-the-money.

Let's not go overboard here, that pass was pretty underthrown. It was a stroke of bad CB play (Tramon Williams had his back to the ball so he couldn't tell it was underthrown), and a great adjustment by Walter for the TD.

Wolf
12-12-2008, 01:15 PM
Yes the rule applies to Schaub

why? I believe the offense we have now is almost good enough to compete with the elite teams
Is it perfect? NO... Brown (if he takes the jump in his 2nd year and with conditioning (to be able to play the full game) ) takes a step forward next season is solid, we are ok on that side. We need a Center (he can't be getting blown up in the red zone). We lack a complimentary back (again) to go with slaton ... with those three things IMO (and I am not expert obviously) we can compete with anyone on that side of the ball
.
I have no problems with us drafting a QB in the draft in the middle rounds and develop .. if I am not mistaken Sage is in his last year here (If I recall,without looking it up)

Does the year 3 rule apply to the defense and smith ? NO ....If the defense can improve and match the offense we would have a team that would be hovering above .500 and fighting for a spot in the NFL that I dare not mention the word

GP
12-12-2008, 01:52 PM
On the $$??? IT was WAYYYYYYYYYY underthrown. Did he take a big, gutsy hit? Sure, and plenty of Kudos to him for that, but please, for the love of God, do NOT call that an "on-the money" pass.

He was throwing lots of underthrown passes in the first quarter, and had a bit of a wind to throw into. I think a pass to Anderson and one to AJ were the only two that I saw as being "on the money" for the most part of the first quarter, but he got stronger as the game progressed. I had lots of grace on those underthrown balls because it was flippin' 10-degrees and there's no telling what the wind chill was...just to be out there was something to see. I didn't have Schaub pegged for THAT type of game at Lambeau.

And what a guy we have in Kevin Walter. That's a free agency signing that has paid off nicely. Anderson contributes when needed. Leach was lights out, catching two critical passes to keep drives alive (which is amazing by Leach pass catching standards). Slaton is running well with good vision and smart moves at the right times. Schaub was clutch. Owen could have sealed the deal with a TD instead of a fumble, but he had a clutch catch at the end to redeem himself. AJ was Mr. Precision on his routes.

It makes it interesting to see if it continues or if there's the usual drop-off we're accustomed to after a big win against a solid opponent.

infantrycak
12-12-2008, 02:07 PM
On the $$??? IT was WAYYYYYYYYYY underthrown. Did he take a big, gutsy hit? Sure, and plenty of Kudos to him for that, but please, for the love of God, do NOT call that an "on-the money" pass.

Totally underthrown although for an obvious reason with the hit at release. Fantastic heads up play from Walter.

And what a guy we have in Kevin Walter. That's a free agency signing that has paid off nicely.

We got Walter through a RFA trade for a 7th rounder. Great move either way.

GP
12-12-2008, 02:27 PM
We got Walter through a RFA trade for a 7th rounder. Great move either way.

That's right. I thought he was UFA. Forgot it was a draft pick compensation situation.

He knows where to be, especially in those moments when AJ is blanketed.

barrett
12-12-2008, 02:30 PM
Yeah, but that's the deal: everyone's ready to call out Mario when he's sucking. Everyone wants to scape-goat Jacques Reeves every time we turn around. But when the starting QB isn't performing well, there's a seemingly endless barrage of reasons why it's not his fault.

I am tired of hanging our hat on beating teams equal-to or less-than our team. This team has GOT to beat the tougher teams, even at a freaking 30% clip for all I care. Just beat a really good team 1/3rd of the time, please. One out of three is a fair expectation isn't it?

And...winning out this season, for Schaub, will do it for me. If our defense loses it for us, then I understand. But if Schaub screws the pooch against the remaining teams, and I am talking 3 or 4 turnovers and missing his receivers, getting sacked 4 or 5 or 6 times, not throwing the ball away, etc., then we're right back where we started.

At some point, can someone at QB just carry this team over the obstacle?

The odd thing about this post is both of those guys are playing pretty good football. perhaps all three of them are good football players and people are just not paying attention. maybe it's easier to see that Schaub is a good football player because he is the center of the screen on your HDTV every snap. All three of those guys are pretty good. Go back and watch. All three of them are improving too.

I say the negativity is less due for Mario than any of them (and where is this said negativity?) but overall they all deserve less negativity but then what would you guys have to talk about?

Go Texans.

Texan_Bill
12-12-2008, 02:44 PM
Everyone wants to scape-goat Jacques Reeves every time we turn around.

He wouldn't be if only he would turnaround. :shades:

barrett
12-12-2008, 02:55 PM
that's funny!

but he seems to be turning around alot more lately.

GP
12-12-2008, 03:11 PM
He wouldn't be if only he would turnaround. :shades:

That was a good one. :photos:

Second Honeymoon
12-12-2008, 03:20 PM
If Schaub can manage to finish the season as starter and stay healthy, he will be our starter next year. He has proven he can read defenses, does good playaction, and isn't afraid to throw downfield. The turnovers need to be cut down but the main question with him is durability. Do the Texans want to give him $20mill this offseason or do they feel they can get him to renegotiate? If Schaub plays well, the Texans hand will be forced and I doubt Schaub would reneg unless it was to get someone that would really help the team.

Maybe Haynesworth? I am sure Schaub would be happy to not have to face him twice a year considering the history of domination by Albert.

Texan_Bill
12-12-2008, 03:25 PM
Schaub, 25, will earn roughly $20 million in the first three years of the contract.

After the first three years, the Texans must pay Schaub a $10 million option bonus in March 2010 to trigger the final three seasons of the contract, or he becomes a free agent. This is the same Houston team, though, that paid the soon-to-be-discarded David Carr a "buy back" bonus of $8 million last spring to reinstate three years of his contract that had voided.



BSPN article (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2808100)