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View Full Version : Firing the Offensive Coodinator


Texans Pride
01-04-2005, 07:15 PM
The jags fired thier offensive Corrdinator, why the hell won't we!

axman40
01-04-2005, 07:18 PM
The jags fired thier offensive Corrdinator,
Did we do that? TEXANS 41 Jags 6
:jumpbanan

texans
01-04-2005, 07:39 PM
we need to bring in norm chow as our OC or some one to help chris becase i dont think he can handle the job alone any more. (how old is he , like 7o eek: )

jagsfanincanada
01-04-2005, 09:08 PM
Mwa ha ha, wait till next year now boys (and girls)! :D If our offense had done ANYTHING right we would have at least split, and now hopefully next year they will. Your offense only scored 27 pts in both meetings; our defense didn't play that bad (minus the crappy effort on Davis in the 2nd game).

jagsfanincanada
01-04-2005, 09:09 PM
Everyone wants Norm Chow; everyone on the Jags board is all over his nuts too. I doubt he's leaving USC any time soon though.

Rovator
01-04-2005, 09:25 PM
Yeah we must suck if our offense "only" scored 27 points. Oh wait, that's over 4 times the number of points the jags scored ;)

axman40
01-04-2005, 10:12 PM
I thnk Norm Chow would be happy to make the jump to the NFL!
:cool:

edo783
01-04-2005, 10:41 PM
The current savior of the week coach. Great coordinator that is for sure.

805joe
01-05-2005, 02:12 PM
then they need to get rid of Palmer. Carr has develped quite nicely, and continues to prove that he is a very classy person, who is a true professional. He needs a new OC to turn the corner. That is where the blame needs to lie. The tools are there. They need a more productive OLine, but the offensive unit should be producing more. What happened to Billy Miller's role in the offense. They only way to keep safeties honest and not bracket the WRs is to throw the ball to the TE. I am not a Texan fan, just an unbiased observer.

jagsfanincanada
01-05-2005, 02:17 PM
Yeah we must suck if our offense "only" scored 27 points. Oh wait, that's over 4 times the number of points the jags scored ;)

I never said our offense didn't REALLY suck.

But in fairness we were without Taylor and with a hurt Leftwich both games. :D

Blake
01-05-2005, 02:19 PM
OC's under fire. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1958992)

"Stay tuned, though, on that and other fronts. In a season that featured more wide-open attacks as the league more strictly enforced the illegal contact rule in the secondary, any coordinator whose unit didn't demonstrate progress might be fair game."

El Tejano
01-05-2005, 02:20 PM
And our Texans defense had much to do with those injuries.

Grid
01-05-2005, 02:31 PM
Palmer is staying and you cannot say he isnt doing a good job until we get an Oline that allows him to do his job.

infantrycak
01-05-2005, 02:51 PM
.its like we let the D make our calls for us.......we need a corrdinator that isn't so confusing.

Are you contending that there is a single team out there that doesn't base their game plan/play calling on the defensive formations they are facing? What do you think Manning is doing running around behind the line for 20 seconds before every play?

Grid
01-05-2005, 03:00 PM
you must not know football or you are a family member of guy. He is to conservative in his play calling and does not put david and the other players in good situations........i wish some people would watch the films over and over before they make comments.

Well i dont know everything, but im not entirely ignorant.. here are some facts.

1. Conservative offenses can be as effective as unconservative ones. Just cause we arent throwing 40 yards down field every third play, doesnt mean we arent trying to win.

2. We are fashioning the team after teams like the Steelers and Dolphins. Play hard, dont worry about being sneaky.. just go out, give the opponent hell and beat them by doing your job well. Do you feel the Steelers and Dolphins dont know how to play football?

3. Capers is just as responsible, if not more responsible for the plays being called on the field.

4. Carr audibles into a different play 25% of the time.. that is one out of every 4 plays.. meaning.. almost every set of downs. Most of the time the audible is into a run.

5. All the coaching staff have been signed for 2 more years... 5 year plan, remember? Consistency in the coaching staff is important.



im sorry you "watched game film over and over" and didnt realize any of this.


our Oline does not give us time to let plays develop.. for most of the year it also did not allow us to have an effective running game. If an Oline cannot open running lanes, and cannot provide pass protection.. where does that leave you? thats right.. with the most sacks of the season, no trip to the playoffs, and an offensive coordinator wrongly taking all the blame.

infantrycak
01-05-2005, 03:07 PM
Do you understand what i am trying to get at.......we dont go out there and say this is how we run our offinse you try to stop us

Then you don't understand at all what Capers is trying to build. That is exactly what grinding running game/long ball teams do--see Pittsburgh this year and Miami while Ricky Williams was there. Everyone knew exactly what they were going to do and that it was very conservative but had a hard time stopping them, or in Pittsburgh's case this year wasn't stopped at all.

PS--punctuation is your friend.

Vinny
01-05-2005, 03:08 PM
Do you understand what i am trying to get at.......we dont go out there and say this is how we run our offinse you try to stop us why do you think we get so many delay of game penelties because there are so many things Carr has to check down to, it is very confusing and takes so much time.....Palmer has no idea what to call so he makes Dre and the other recievers "just go deep".Funny how Drew Bledsoe, Mark Brunell, & Tim Couch all had career years under Palmer and when Palmer leaves they all become average QB's again (in the case of Couch he isn't even in the NFL).

infantrycak
01-05-2005, 03:13 PM
well you know what dont draft a QB #1 overal and a WR #3 overal........These guys were not ment for this kind of offinse. :BananaWav

I would beg to differ.

Signed Ben Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress & Antwan Randel El.

Co-signed Terry Bradshaw, Lynn Swann & John Stallworth plus Troy Aikman & Michael Irvin

Vinny
01-05-2005, 03:14 PM
well you know what dont draft a QB #1 overal and a WR #3 overal........These guys were not ment for this kind of offinse. :BananaWavExpansion teams have to draft for all positions and this argument is as weak as any I have seen on this board. You take talent and you play to win. You don't look for lesser talents when you draft just because you don't want to have an offense like the Rams.

HJam72
01-05-2005, 05:25 PM
I'm sure that AJ would get the ball more if the O-line would learn to protect Carr. Not only that, but it probably be play-action passes for a lot of yardage. Capers doesn't want to pass a lot, but he does want to pass more and a LOT deeper.

HJam72
01-05-2005, 06:01 PM
it is not about going deep every time just get the man the ball, slant, dig, drag, hook.......you under stand what i am trying to say.the guy can motor just let him have the rock.

Opposing defenses don't want to see that. In fact, they don't want to see AJ with the ball at all. The cover 2 shuts all of that down and the way you beat the cover 2 is you rush for 200 yds. I know that sounds like a LOT of rushing yardage, but that's what the defenses are not defending. I don't think our O-line is doing real great with run-blocking either, because if they really were we wouldn't be seeing so much cover anything. We'd be seeing man coverage and AJ would be getting the ball, whether deep or not.

Just imagine what AJ could do in man coverage with safeties run blitzing!

Vinny
01-05-2005, 06:02 PM
why take the BEST TALENT if you are not going to use it right.Put Carr in Martz's offense and he has 4000 yards 20 TD's and 25-30 INT's leading the Rams to a .500 record at this stage in his development from these eyes. Carr has a wonderful arm and has the ability to get away from a defender but anyone watching the game can see some flaws in his game. I think the team is doing what the personnel does well at this time. I would think that we would struggle to reach .500 if we had a more wide open offense with our line flaws and QB problems that result from them.

We need a TE that does not tip the play and can actually block and catch. This will help out Carr in the Red Zone and bring his TD's up to a more normal, expected level in year 4. Carr needs help, and I think he will be fine for us long-term but just because you like a certain offense or your favorite player is David Carr doesn't mean the coaches are using him absolutely wrong in my book.

I agree with some of the complaints though. I think we should use AJ like the Chargers use Antonio Gates. I'd love to see us move him all over the field and perhaps split in the back field (over the Tackles) with Davis at times, but the team has a real tough time doing simple things. Perhaps they will diversify their offense as the team proves it can handle basic formations and plays first (only partial sarcasm used here). As coaches you are a slave to the play of your players. To me, many of our players still play like expansion team guys and we are still very vanilla on both sides of the ball because of that, but I see flashes of complexity, so I'm not in the Chicken Little camp of firing coaches as problem solving.

Texan Gal 312
01-05-2005, 06:06 PM
why do you think we get so many delay of game penelties because there are so many things Carr has to check down to, it is very confusing and takes so much time..... O BY THE WAY EVERYONES CONTRACTS GOT EXTENDED ACCEPT FOR PALMERS BECAUSE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON HE WANTED TO BE THE HIGHEST PAID OC IN THE GAME!

Many delay of game penalties - could you support with some facts like a comparison of ours to other teams -

My understanding was the entire staff was under contract - do you have some link or something to support this as fact ?

Texas_Heat
01-05-2005, 06:20 PM
No coaching changes till 2006.....


Their going to stay with the same coaching till 2006 :thud:


:jumpbanan the Texans will win the division in 2007 :dance:

NeViKaN
01-05-2005, 06:27 PM
1. Conservative offenses can be as effective as unconservative ones. Just cause we arent throwing 40 yards down field every third play, doesnt mean we arent trying to win.

2. We are fashioning the team after teams like the Steelers and Dolphins. Play hard, dont worry about being sneaky.. just go out, give the opponent hell and beat them by doing your job well. Do you feel the Steelers and Dolphins dont know how to play football?

4. Carr audibles into a different play 25% of the time.. that is one out of every 4 plays.. meaning.. almost every set of downs. Most of the time the audible is into a run.

5. All the coaching staff have been signed for 2 more years... 5 year plan, remember? Consistency in the coaching staff is important.


our Oline does not give us time to let plays develop.. for most of the year it also did not allow us to have an effective running game. If an Oline cannot open running lanes, and cannot provide pass protection.. where does that leave you? thats right.. with the most sacks of the season, no trip to the playoffs, and an offensive coordinator wrongly taking all the blame.

1.&2. We have Seatle style players not Steeler style. Meaning, DD is not Bettis. Not every play needs to be 40 or bust. Quick and hard. Slants and drags. Oh yea the same routs that let us move the ball in the beginning of the season but we got away from. I think he forgets what has worked for him.

4. I agree that Carr audibles to runs. Who do you think taught him to do that?

5. No I have always heard a three year plan, Maybe I heard wrong.

as far as the OL. refer to 1&2

Grid
01-05-2005, 06:48 PM
you may think we look like seattle now.. but it is the dolphins/steelers style that Capers has said we are working towards.

SESupergenius
01-05-2005, 06:53 PM
I see nothing wrong with the drafting of Carr or AJ, just the utilization of them. Our offensive is not deceptive at all. We never motion, never use the FB out in the flat, never use the TE enough, never move the WR around and never audible out of a formation into another one. Someone needs to buy the coaches a copy of "Sun Tzu's Art of war - All warfare is based on deception". We are not deceptive at all. Same goes for the defense, although they were adding more blitzing zone packages this than last year, 3rd down was almost a gimmie as to what we were going to do.

NeViKaN
01-05-2005, 07:01 PM
you may think we look like seattle now.. but it is the dolphins/steelers style that Capers has said we are working towards.

I'll agree with that. But you can't drive and Corvette off road.
Till the drafts and FA get the personnel were he wants it then call the plays that suits the personnel we have now.

infantrycak
01-05-2005, 07:29 PM
why do you think we get so many delay of game penelties because there are so many things Carr has to check down to, it is very confusing and takes so much time.....

The Texans O was in the top third--i.e. a lower number of penalties--of the league on penalties this year. Most of the false starts were due to undisciplined play, see Chester Pitts as example A.

If this offense with the check downs is too confusing for Carr then I seriously would have grave concerns that he can ever be even a decent NFL QB. The single thing that contributes most to Manning being great is his ability to read D's and then react at the line of scrimmage. Don't remember seeing Carr ever approach the level of involvement Manning has and oh by the way, the Colts had exactly the same number of offensive penalties the Texans had this year.

Grid
01-05-2005, 07:30 PM
the calls DO suit the personnel we have now. how have we called plays that dont suit our personel?

the only problem with our offense at this point, is the Oline.. get that fixed and we can make REAL judgements on what needs to be changed or not.

infantrycak
01-05-2005, 07:31 PM
1.&2. We have Seatle style players not Steeler style. Meaning, DD is not Bettis.

Yeah, one player is the difference between Pittsburgh and Houston--suuurrree.

Double Barrel
01-05-2005, 07:33 PM
These fire Palmer threads are getting just plain goofy.

Seems like some folks just don't get the BIG PICTURE.

First, Palmer takes his orders and style of offense directly from Capers. Under a different head coach, Palmer would run a different offense. Do you follow me?

Secondly, after only three years, we don't have ALL of the personnel needed to run a consistent offense. Why, exactly, is this Palmer's fault? I guess you want to fire Casserly, too, because he didn't find all of the talent we need to win the Superbowl in our third season?

Thirdly, learn football. If you had a clue, you would understand that your calls to fire coaches and start from scratch would set this team back 2-3 MORE years, and by then, you'll be calling for more heads to roll.

I think I'll refrain from posting in any more "fire Palmer" threads because they are nothing but silliness.

NeViKaN
01-05-2005, 07:41 PM
the calls DO suit the personnel we have now. how have we called plays that dont suit our personel?

the only problem with our offense at this point, is the Oline.. get that fixed and we can make REAL judgements on what needs to be changed or not.

Kinda my point. Read previous listing.

And No I don't think that DD is the only diff. Just one ex.

touttail
01-05-2005, 07:55 PM
Are you guys and gals as tired of hearing Capers say, "We have to learn from our mistakes", as much as I am. So sick of hearing this. Hell they should be Rhode Scholars by now, if they have learned from all their mistakes!!!
Just disgusted and venting, Sorry!

Grid
01-05-2005, 08:00 PM
I personally like how the week before they said "This team doesnt take anyone lightly, we arent good enough too"

oh.. except the browns. whoooooopppppss

THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
01-05-2005, 11:14 PM
You know one thing you have to think about is that if we do fire Palmer, then David Carr and the offense would have to learn a WHOLE NEW OFFENSIVE SYSTEM. That would take a year to get adjusted to, and with great learners on offense, you could kiss the 2005 playoffs good-bye.

I like the Norm Chow idea. I think he is the best offensive mind in football, knows how to manage a game and a young quaterback, and probably the most underated guy IN football. I wonder how come he doesn't win that award for best assisant in college every year? Anyway why would he leave USC when they are building and "empire"? and they have all the talent in the world?

texansfan88
01-05-2005, 11:16 PM
Todd Dodge for O-Coordinator

NOTE: Dodge is the coach and OC for Southlake Carroll, the most succesful high school program in Texas since he's been there

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-05-2005, 11:19 PM
Anyway why would he leave USC when they are building and "empire"? and they have all the talent in the world?




Because if he can land an NFL OC job and have success, after maybe 3 years he would be a leading candidate for most HC positions.

kbourda
01-05-2005, 11:36 PM
Look ladies and gents, I don't care who is offensive coordinator, it's Caper's call. Despite what other posters may say that he differs all play calling on offense to Palmer. I'm not sure but I honestly feel like Capers has the final say on the play calling. I've seen Palmer offenses have explosive seasons so I find that very hard to believe that he (being Palmer) can't adjust any better (in games) than what he should.

kbourda
01-05-2005, 11:41 PM
The jags fired thier offensive Corrdinator, why the hell won't we!
It's not that simple. The problems start from the top.

fresno8
01-06-2005, 02:39 AM
Put Carr in Martz's offense and he has 4000 yards 20 TD's and 25-30 INT's leading the Rams to a .500 record at this stage in his development from these eyes. Carr has a wonderful arm and has the ability to get away from a defender but anyone watching the game can see some flaws in his game. I think the team is doing what the personnel does well at this time. I would think that we would struggle to reach .500 if we had a more wide open offense with our line flaws and QB problems that result from them.

We need a TE that does not tip the play and can actually block and catch. This will help out Carr in the Red Zone and bring his TD's up to a more normal, expected level in year 4. Carr needs help, and I think he will be fine for us long-term but just because you like a certain offense or your favorite player is David Carr doesn't mean the coaches are using him absolutely wrong in my book.

I agree with some of the complaints though. I think we should use AJ like the Chargers use Antonio Gates. I'd love to see us move him all over the field and perhaps split in the back field (over the Tackles) with Davis at times, but the team has a real tough time doing simple things. Perhaps they will diversify their offense as the team proves it can handle basic formations and plays first (only partial sarcasm used here).

I think Vinny is right for the most part. We can't consistenly get AJ the ball w/ out an o-line. When Carr has time he can look receivers off, spread the ball around and free up AJ and get him the ball. I wouldn't say Carr is a problem, but even though I think he's a great QB and will get better, he does have flaws(consistent leadership/better audibles/touch on short passes are the main problems I see) and I hope he hasn't been hit to many times to never give him confidence in the pocket, this has to be a concern for the future.. We sure could use a balanced TE, it would help stretch the field and help in the redzone. I don't like the coaches, but they only can call a limited amount of plays due to our poor o-line play, however the poor play on the o-line has to be reflected on the coaches as well. I only hope our o-line is why the offensive scheme isn't working other wise we have the worst coaches around. I also think we could be more creative, things couldn't have gotten much worse at times this past year so why didn't we try different things?However, lets see what the OFFENSE/CARR/COACHES can do w/ a decent line and balance TE. I hope we can address these needs and move on to better things.

the wonger need food
01-06-2005, 09:22 AM
Todd Dodge for O-Coordinator

NOTE: Dodge is the coach and OC for Southlake Carroll, the most succesful high school program in Texas since he's been there


Hasn't Katy been the most successful program in Texas the past 10 or so years?

TexansTrueFan
01-06-2005, 03:41 PM
hmmm i thought the woodlands had been the most succesful !

jagsfanincanada
01-06-2005, 04:12 PM
These fire Palmer threads are getting just plain goofy.

Seems like some folks just don't get the BIG PICTURE.

First, Palmer takes his orders and style of offense directly from Capers. Under a different head coach, Palmer would run a different offense. Do you follow me?

Secondly, after only three years, we don't have ALL of the personnel needed to run a consistent offense. Why, exactly, is this Palmer's fault? I guess you want to fire Casserly, too, because he didn't find all of the talent we need to win the Superbowl in our third season?

Thirdly, learn football. If you had a clue, you would understand that your calls to fire coaches and start from scratch would set this team back 2-3 MORE years, and by then, you'll be calling for more heads to roll.

I think I'll refrain from posting in any more "fire Palmer" threads because they are nothing but silliness.

Agreed. When Chris Palmer was offensive coordinator for the Jags we routinely had one of the best offenses in the league.

jagsfanincanada
01-06-2005, 04:14 PM
Todd Dodge for O-Coordinator

NOTE: Dodge is the coach and OC for Southlake Carroll, the most succesful high school program in Texas since he's been there

A high school coach for NFL offensive coordinator? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

TexansTrueFan
01-06-2005, 04:15 PM
Agreed. When Chris Palmer was offensive coordinator for the Jags we routinely had one of the best offenses in the league.


people are just looking for an excuse, if not him they will blame somebody else ! "Lucky for the TEAM us fans cant make any big off season changes" :)