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View Full Version : Believe what you've heard -- another where we are thread


Texanmike02
12-08-2008, 03:28 PM
Believe what you’ve heard. Well, some of it. We’re not as good as some thought at the beginning of the year, but we’re on our way. This team is a little different. They have taken a step. Its not that we’re there yet, but we’re taking steps that as a franchise we never have. This team has a long and well established history of shooting one foot and then Plaxico’ing themselves in the thigh just to make sure they have no chance at winning the game. Those 4 turnovers would have been 28 pts, and the offense would have taken their ball and gone home. Schaub, though, was able to rally the troops. This team has even shown that they can step it up and make plays when they have to. Look back at the close games we’ve had in the past. Look at the number of leads we’ve Rosenfelled in the past. How many times has one turnover lead to another and another while the defense takes naptime and stops playing.

Teams need to learn to win. Coming into the season, my concern was that we had no real tests last year. There weren’t too many games that were much of a contest and we hadn’t really learned how to win a game. This isn’t about your opponent. This isn’t about the mistakes you make. Every team does. This is about the ability to gut out a win. Look at the cowgirls this week. One play, a 44 yard pass in what should be garbage time, breaks them. For once, we watched “the other team in Texas’s” defense make a big stop. Not just a stop, a push. Forcing the Pack back out of field goal range was HUGE. Then the drive to win the game; it was so… un-Texan. This isn’t your older brothers Texans. They’re not the best team in the AFC, or the AFC south… or even in the bottom 3 teams out of the AFC south, but they are no longer the cellar dwellers they were.
Sign me up for a DT, a S and some interior linemen. Hell sign me up for a new DC. Eliminate turnovers… I’m right there with you. We’ve all talked about the measurable, the quantifiable players we needed. About filling positions, but if this team has filled that immeasurable void this season, then 7-9 ain’t so bad. Its not a step backwards, it’s a huge step forward that hasn’t gotten the attention in the past. This, is how teams go from 7 to 9 win teams to 12 game winners in an offseason. I don’t know about winning 12 games, I’m not even sure about 10 next year. But if this continues, we won’t see the disappointing finishes, the heartbreaking games that our beloved football teams have become known for.

Keep in mind, I’m the guy who said this team was more likely to win 6 games than they were 10. When everyone else was talking about playoffs, I was talking about getting out of the cellar. I’m not looking through rose colored glasses, and if anyone values statistics its me. But something was different about the steel blue this week. Something I can’t chart.

Mike

badboy
12-08-2008, 04:05 PM
I look at all the good plays Mike; but I also see the silly ones. I see Schaub making a good decision to throw out of bounds, then another where he forces a pass or sails one past his guy. Do all QBs do this? Yeah, but I am only interested in those on our side of ball. Same thing with Winston. Guy looks solid yet due to some comments on MB about our RT, I watched him Sunday and he did blow some plays. How many times on receiving a punt, do we see a guy down field ahead of the runner, but not blocking? One play in 2nd half, I was screaming just hit someone! Never saw the guy's number but he was white. IMO he was wanting to nail someone down field but allowed two guys to get by him and one nailed our guy. A push in the back that brings a long gain back. How is that ever productive? What about draw plays and screens that I hoped were to be a big part of the O with JJ and Slaton on team?

I am not as concerned as some on the fumbles in this game. all but Jones' were take aways not give 'em ups. My hope is that we will develop more positives as the team get better with the "basics" of blocking and tackling. I think it was Winston that said a few games ago, if the players do what they are supposed to do each play will be successful.

It is inspiring to know that we could have really put a landslide on the Packers and that team knows it. I sure hope our team knows it. I think we will beat Tennesee but lose one of the others. In pre-season, I was noting that we could be a much better team and not be 7-9.

I'm with you on the safety, but I want a fast true free safety that can take over when our CB gets beat. A DT would be nice as it looks like TJ and so far Okoye do not fill the bill. Okam may be the man, but this important position should not be a ?mark going into next season.

My selections for now? A FS with 4.50 speed or better; a solid CB as nothing 100% certain on DR or Molden; a DE yeah even I'm saying it now we have a LT for future and finally a power back. Only problem is our picks probably will not get us any of these. I see a lot of trade downs and hopefully another "who the heck is that guy...oh, so that is who that guy is. Way to go Rick Smith!"

Texanmike02
12-08-2008, 10:03 PM
I would throw the bank a Hanesworth this off season. With "skill position players" you always have to wonder if they are a product of the system. With a guy on the line, who just dominates his man, or double team, every time on the field, there is no guess work. I don't advocate spending a lot of money on most people, but this is one case where I'll make an exception. You take away some of the mystery on the 3rd and medium (4-7 yards) and this defense looks better. Keep blockers off of our LBs and let haynesworth take on an extra blocker or two, or heaven forbid we see a DT in the backfild, and this team is a different team entirely.


I think that is really the key to our success on defense. Keep the core unit (mario, meko and ryans) together and build around them. I'm good with Bennet, though someone alluded to the idea of making him a S and that might be a hell of an idea if we get another corner. Wilson is good, at SS we got issues. I would love to see greenwood replaced, but that doesn't REALLY have to happen this year.

Like I said, this team is FINALLY starting to turn the corner. And its not always about the talent of the guy you're lining up, its what's between their ears. (wow, did I just say that?)

Mike

DocBar
12-08-2008, 10:22 PM
I don't mind the idea of throwing a ton of money at Haynesworth, offhand. I DO mind the idea of lots of trades this offseason. Kubes and Smith have shown amazing draft ability but I'm not sold on their FA signings. Reeves is looking better with DROB across from him. I think a change of scheme and attitude is in order via change of DC. We have some talent on the D side being wasted with RS's silly schemes. He's not using his personnel to their strong suits. Throw Haynesworth into the mix and WOW!!! If you watch the best teams in the league, they win with a mix of talent, scheme and attitude. We're missing 2 out of 3. We're GETTING the attitude, some 11-12 weeks too late, but that's not enough, IMHO.

ObsiWan
12-08-2008, 11:03 PM
The Titans are as likely to let Haynesworth walk as they are to let Vince start over Collins in the playoffs.

The Bears may just be cheap (and stupid) enough to let Tommie Harris get away. And if the Cowboys don't re-sign Tank Johnson, I'd consider adding one of them in our DL rotation.

Lucky
12-08-2008, 11:03 PM
This team is a little different. They have taken a step.
What step? The Texans have the exact record after 13 games as last season. They've won the same number of divisional games as last season (one). They've beaten the same number of winning teams as this time last season (one). There are the same questions about the defense. The same turnover problem on offense. The same indecisiveness shown by the head coach.

And last season AJ missed 7 games. Mario, DeMeco, Owen, and Eric were in their 2nd year. Amobi Okoye and Fred Bennett were rookies. Steve Slaton was in college. The 2008 Texans should be better than the 2007 version. But look at the standings. They're not.

This is Year 7 of this franchise. Scoreboard should be the only thing that counts. I don't see a step. What I see is running in place.

Norg
12-08-2008, 11:18 PM
well if we dont win a few games next year then we will never win alot of games next year we play the NFC west ............ its now or never LOL

and we prob play CLE OAK and MIAMI on top of that

Jackie Chiles
12-08-2008, 11:24 PM
The Titans are as likely to let Haynesworth walk as they are to let Vince start over Collins in the playoffs.

The Bears may just be cheap (and stupid) enough to let Tommie Harris get away. And if the Cowboys don't re-sign Tank Johnson, I'd consider adding one of them in our DL rotation.

Harris got a big time extension at the beginning or right before the beginning of this year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3453129

DocBar
12-09-2008, 12:08 AM
What step? The Texans have the exact record after 13 games as last season. They've won the same number of divisional games as last season (one). They've beaten the same number of winning teams as this time last season (one). There are the same questions about the defense. The same turnover problem on offense. The same indecisiveness shown by the head coach.

And last season AJ missed 7 games. Mario, DeMeco, Owen, and Eric were in their 2nd year. Amobi Okoye and Fred Bennett were rookies. Steve Slaton was in college. The 2008 Texans should be better than the 2007 version. But look at the standings. They're not.

This is Year 7 of this franchise. Scoreboard should be the only thing that counts. I don't see a step. What I see is running in place. WOW!!! I hate to admit it, but I agree with this. You just crapped on my heart!!! I hope a win against the Tacks this weekend( my 1st game to see live) will be TP.

ChampionTexan
12-09-2008, 12:43 AM
What step? The Texans have the exact record after 13 games as last season. They've won the same number of divisional games as last season (one). They've beaten the same number of winning teams as this time last season (one). There are the same questions about the defense. The same turnover problem on offense. The same indecisiveness shown by the head coach.

And last season AJ missed 7 games. Mario, DeMeco, Owen, and Eric were in their 2nd year. Amobi Okoye and Fred Bennett were rookies. Steve Slaton was in college. The 2008 Texans should be better than the 2007 version. But look at the standings. They're not.

This is Year 7 of this franchise. Scoreboard should be the only thing that counts. I don't see a step. What I see is running in place.

And we have an offense that's gone from 14th to 3rd in the NFL. More specifically, we have a rushing game that's gone from 22nd to 12th in the NFL increasing YPC from 3.8 to 4.4. We have no glaring weakness on the offense - last year, we had RB and the line. We have a QB who's got the 6th highest passer rating in the league - despite the interceptions. We've got a defense who's got it's heart and soul back and the now realistic hope that he will return to most if not all of his prior form, where last year we had a question mark as to if he'd ever be back. We have a salary cap with room enough to maneuver in free agency, and deal with some 2009 expiring contracts early. We have a starting LB corp that looks like it might be a competent trio once Diles gets back. Does that fix the problem? No, but it let's you focus on other areas, and thereby the problem gets easier to fix. We had none of these things at the end of the 2007.

Look, I can look at all the crappy things too, and while I'm not in the fire Kubiak camp, and it's pretty clear he's gonna be back regardless, I see the concerns that some have. Contrary to what some want to believe, most of us :glasshalffull: folks aren't this way because we're too stupid or brainwashed to see or understand the problems. Most of us realize that as fans we have no impact whatsoever on what the team does (nor should we), so you might as well savor the things that are there to be enjoyed.

DocBar
12-09-2008, 12:50 AM
And we have an offense that's gone from 14th to 3rd in the NFL. More specifically, we have a rushing game that's gone from 22nd to 12th in the NFL increasing YPC from 3.8 to 4.4. We have no glaring weakness on the offense - last year, we had RB and the line. We have a QB who's got the 6th highest passer rating in the league - despite the interceptions. We've got a defense who's got it's heart and soul back and the now realistic hope that he will return to most if not all of his prior form, where last year we had a question mark as to if he'd ever be back. We have a salary cap with room enough to maneuver in free agency, and deal with some 2009 expiring contracts early. We have a starting LB corp that looks like it might be a competent trio once Diles gets back. Does that fix the problem? No, but it let's you focus on other areas, and thereby the problem gets easier to fix. We had none of these things at the end of the 2007.

Look, I can look at all the crappy things too, and while I'm not in the fire Kubiak camp, and it's pretty clear he's gonna be back regardless, I see the concerns that some have. Contrary to what some want to believe, most of us :glasshalffull: folks aren't this way because we're too stupid or brainwashed to see or understand the problems. Most of us realize that as fans we have no impact whatsoever on what the team does (nor should we), so you might as well savor the things that are there to be enjoyed.
Good post. I must spread rep.

Lucky
12-09-2008, 07:33 AM
And we have an offense that's gone from 14th to 3rd in the NFL...(more stats).
I'm not one of the fans in the stands who celebrates every first down. I celebrate smart, winning football. The Houston Texans are not playing that brand of football, else they would be winning more than they are losing.

Most of us realize that as fans we have no impact whatsoever on what the team does (nor should we), so you might as well savor the things that are there to be enjoyed..
After 7 seasons, I'm past the "just lay back and enjoy it" aspect of fandom. I want to win. I want to see an organization that is committed to winning. I don't care who the head coach is. Who the defensive coordinator is. Who the QB is. Or who the strength coach is. I want to see the playoffs here in Houston. And I will continue to complain, loudly, until that happens.

FirstTexansFan
12-09-2008, 07:55 AM
After 7 seasons, I'm past the "just lay back and enjoy it" aspect of fandom. I want to win. I want to see an organization that is committed to winning. I don't care who the head coach is. Who the defensive coordinator is. Who the QB is. Or who the strength coach is. I want to see the playoffs here in Houston.

Couldn't agree more.


And I will continue to complain, loudly, until that happens.

I hope you're taking 81mg aspirin, otherwise, I fear you're not gonna be with us long :)

Texanmike02
12-09-2008, 07:48 PM
What step? The Texans have the exact record after 13 games as last season. They've won the same number of divisional games as last season (one). They've beaten the same number of winning teams as this time last season (one). There are the same questions about the defense. The same turnover problem on offense. The same indecisiveness shown by the head coach.

And last season AJ missed 7 games. Mario, DeMeco, Owen, and Eric were in their 2nd year. Amobi Okoye and Fred Bennett were rookies. Steve Slaton was in college. The 2008 Texans should be better than the 2007 version. But look at the standings. They're not.

This is Year 7 of this franchise. Scoreboard should be the only thing that counts. I don't see a step. What I see is running in place.

The step? I'll lay it out as I see it. There may be disagreement about it but here's what I see.

We have gotten younger and better at key positions. Last year we had no idea about the LT position. We were all thinking about LT... we were left wondering about whether this kid, Diles, we heard so much about him, but could he play? We've found a running game, Wilson is a keeper.

We haven't eliminated our mistakes... we still make stupid ones, but they don't snowball. We've actually shown an ability to forget the mistake and play on.

I maintain that we are still one VERY big piece from being "there". DT. That's the key. We will be mediocre until we solve that, but once we do, this defense will rocket up the charts. One of the reason that Mario is the only one to get a sack on this defense is he has a true power move. He is able to actually get into the T or TE blocking him, then push for the QB. The problem, the QB can ALWAYS step up into the pocket. That has been the biggest hole on this defense the last two years.


Are there things to cut out? Sure. the Turnovers are alarming. I think a lot of the INTS get fixed with continuity on offense. If we can keep Schaub standing and healthy, I think that happens. I know I know, fragile. I don't subscribe to that theory necessarily. He's been hit hard on several occasions. Plus we should have Haynesworth on our side.

You turn the corner... you still got a way to go. you don't turn the corner and arrive. Are we there yet? NO. If you've heard that, don't believe what you've heard. Have we taken a HUGE step? Yes... believe it if that's what you've heard.

Mike

Mike

DocBar
12-09-2008, 08:00 PM
After 7 years, I think this is more of a curve than a corner. Corners are usually sharp, 90's. This has been more of a sweeping, drawn out 90 that we aren't quite thru yet.

Doc

Texanmike02
12-09-2008, 08:21 PM
I remember being an oilers fan. I was a die hard. I caught the tail end of the love ya blue days... then lived through the middle eighties. I also watched the Titans go 8-8 3 (I think it was) years in a row under a new upstart coach and become a force in the league for the next 6 years. When did THIS team start? Pick a date? Was it Kubes coming here? Was it Schaub? Is this team the same team that Capers ran?


i would argue that when a team goes from a 3-4 to a 4-3, changes their offense to a zbs hybrid, thier QB, and a complete defensive overhaul and new coaches would seem to be about the time I say this is a different team. Pendry is no longer announcing "we're gonna run the same 5 plays over and over till they work".

I see this as a 3 or 4 year process. 2-14, 6-10, 8-8... We started in a worse position than we were as an expansion team. This is year 3. We've made significant improvements in all areas. Last year we were filling with stopgaps. Guess what. Greenwood, probably gone. Our LT situation, different, SS... seems to be fixed... A lateral move to a younger team with upside, I consider that an upgrade. Maybe I'm crazy... I've been critical when I thought it was warranted. I just don't see where we're not in a better position than we were a year ago.

Let me say it one more time BRING IN HAYNESWORTH.


Mike

ObsiWan
12-09-2008, 10:44 PM
I'm not one of the fans in the stands who celebrates every first down. I celebrate smart, winning football. The Houston Texans are not playing that brand of football, else they would be winning more than they are losing.

After 7 seasons, I'm past the "just lay back and enjoy it" aspect of fandom. I want to win. I want to see an organization that is committed to winning. I don't care who the head coach is. Who the defensive coordinator is. Who the QB is. Or who the strength coach is. I want to see the playoffs here in Houston. And I will continue to complain, loudly, until that happens.

"Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Its been seven years, why aren't we THERE yet??"

Maybe I'm easily entertained but I'm enjoying the journey. The destination, a Super Bowl win, only lasts that one day. Remembering what we overcame to get there lasts forever.

Marcus
12-10-2008, 12:23 AM
"Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Its been seven years, why aren't we THERE yet??"

Maybe I'm easily entertained but I'm enjoying the journey. The destination, a Super Bowl win, only lasts that one day. Remembering what we overcame to get there lasts forever.

That's how I'm looking at it. At least they are playing entertaining football these days, so I know right there that they are on the right track, and progress is being made. Now, admittedly, the progress has been slow, but for a team that's never tasted consistantly winning football before, the evolution can be slow.

OK, it's taken 7 years. Might be 8 or 9 before they get there, depending on injuries. Any of you who bought PSLs or season tickets thinking that something was guaranteed in a certain timeframe, well I can understand the impatience. Well . . sort of. But if there is place where "shit happens" rules the day, it's the NFL.

But when the day comes, and it will be soon, that this team is in the hunt for a playoff spot near the end of the season, I'm not expecting all this negativity to decrease. In fact, I expect it to get worse. Winning doesn't do anything but create more expectations.

b0ng
12-10-2008, 12:36 AM
That's how I'm looking at it. At least they are playing entertaining football these days, so I know right there that they are on the right track, and progress is being made. Now, admittedly, the progress has been slow, but for a team that's never tasted consistantly winning football before, the evolution can be slow.

OK, it's taken 7 years. Might be 8 or 9 before they get there, depending on injuries. Any of you who bought PSLs or season tickets thinking that something was guaranteed in a certain timeframe, well I can understand the impatience. Well . . sort of. But if there is place where "shit happens" rules the day, it's the NFL.

But when the day comes, and it will be soon, that this team is in the hunt for a playoff spot near the end of the season, I'm not expecting all this negativity to decrease. In fact, I expect it to get worse. Winning doesn't do anything but create more expectations.

This is how I feel. I remember them being so awful and hard to watch that I rarely made it through a whole game. That doesn't really happen as much anymore, and more often than not the offense looks great. The defense is terrible but it's not without it's stars and watching a few of the players play every sunday is a real treat. I can't remember any player that I liked watching more than AJ and Mario.

I think the Texans are still pretty frustrating to watch, but they are putting so much of a better product on the field than they were 5 years ago that I still have plenty of hope.