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View Full Version : Ok, so 2009 starts and Richard Smith is STILL the DC


Hervoyel
12-08-2008, 01:55 PM
I know, I know, the thought of it makes you sick inside. Just typing that made my head spin and caused my mood to tip slightly to the "worse" side. I hope it doesn't happen. If I were a religious man I'd pray it didn't happen. I've spent the better part of the last year (two really) talking about how this guy has to go and declaring that he and this staff have failed to turn the players they've been given into a decent defense. Every year we all see the same thing. The man plays it totally vanilla until the team is no longer in contention and then turns on the burners and the Texans blitz their way into the offseason.

Actually I think it's sort of a coincidence that they come alive the moment the playoffs fall out of reasonable reach. I think he turns up the heat when he starts to feel the heat and no sooner. Then in fear of losing his job he suddenly gets desperate and starts doing what he should have been doing all along and that is taking some chances.

But assume he stays. The Texans somehow manage to finish the year 9-7 (or even 8-8) and the defense plays the rest of the year like they've suddenly seen the light. What happens when 2009 begins?

Thorn
12-08-2008, 02:08 PM
Frankly, in the long run, I don't care who the coachs are as long as the team is winning games. If Richard Smith gives us a kick ass defense (which I seriously doubt he ever will) then I'll be glad to have him as a coach.

Jackie Chiles
12-08-2008, 02:11 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2008/12/texans_coaching_staff_and_play.html

"Has Richard Smith saved his job? Was it even in jeopardy? I would be shocked if his job wasn't in jeopardy, but the defense has played a much better brand of football the question now becomes whether or not this defense can help you get to the playoffs if the right personnel moves are made. My guess as of today is that Richard Smith will be back."

Hmmmm. This is disappointing to say the least.

Brando
12-08-2008, 02:11 PM
Well I'm glad the defense has started playing better but they started playing better when Richard Smith started being more aggressive after the fact that our season was basically over. If he continues to be aggressive then fine but I have a feeling he will resort back to being timid when it counts. I could be wrong and I can be from time to time.:D

76Texan
12-08-2008, 02:13 PM
Richard Smith stays unless the Texans can be sure of getting a proven or upstart DC!

The numerous mistakes early in the season were on the back seven (actually back six, DeMeco has always been the exception.)

Lately, with the arrival of Wilson, the emergence of Adibi, and Dunta's getting back in shape we make enough of good plays to make up for the mistakes in the defensive backfield.

When you rush 4, they have got to be able to cover for at least 2 secs, preferrably 3 secs.

HJam72
12-08-2008, 02:13 PM
This wait until week 10 to get aggressive will happen every year until he is gone. It's not just a lack of blitzes, but also all this "read and react" with smallish DTs made for taking the initiative and avoiding all that unnecessary, head-on contact with bigger O-linemen. This team can get after the QB, but not if they are too busy running into O-linemen as designed.

HOU-TEX
12-08-2008, 02:14 PM
The defense has done the same thing for 3 years now. The 1st half of the season they're a joke and the 2nd half they turn respectable. Personally, I'm tired of it. I was ready to dismiss him after last season and he has since proved he should've been.

He gone!! My .02

HJam72
12-08-2008, 02:15 PM
For 3 years in a row we have waited until around week 10 to get aggressive on D. This time we should surely know that it will happen again....and again....and again.

imatexan
12-08-2008, 02:24 PM
I think the better question is:

Who would be an upgrade?

Ole Miss Texan
12-08-2008, 02:37 PM
I'm in agreement with most of yall. The D is always pathetic the first half and then steps it up. I think the CB's are making better reads and breaks on the ball, almost like they want to make a play on it. Wouldn't that be something? Reeves is close to being a really good starter- he really needs to work on locating the ball in the offseason.

We always get frustrated at a lot of the playcalling, myself included. But really it starts with just basic coaching for me. Most of these guys are so young, they need proper coaching. It seems like they are finally coming together and it's clicking... but is that just the same thing we've seen the last few seasons or is it different this time?

I still think we're a ways away from being a legitimate superbowl contender, but with this team- we're close to getting to the playoffs year in and year out. With a concentration on the defense early in the draft and a key FA here or there, our defense will be much better. Not great but much better. Another year of maturing, they'll be great. Schaubo needs to cut down on the turnovers, which I think will come as he matures as a starter and stays healthy and we need to work on our red zone offense.

Less turnovers on offense and one or two more playmakers on D and we're in the playoffs.

Second Honeymoon
12-08-2008, 02:37 PM
you can't decide to show up Week 11 and expect to keep your job. smith is still the worst defensive coordinator in the league and nothing is going to change that.

bring back Smith and they can **** themselves for all I care.

teh fact that the defense is playing better now just shows you that it hasn't been personnel holding us back, its been scheme, preparation, and having a sack of testicles....something RS sorely lacks.

we need to get a hotshot defensive coordinator who will instill some fire and intensity 16+ games a year not just when its on National TV or when your season is over with nothing to play for or nothing to lose. RS is a loser.

noxiousdog
12-08-2008, 02:42 PM
I think the better question is:

Who would be an upgrade?

I'm not a knee jerk guy, but pretty much anyone. The Texans have been horribly, horribly bad for 4 years now on defense. From 2005 to 2008 they have been 32, 25, 22, and 26 in points, and 31, 24, 24, and 20th in yards.

I don't care how bad the talent is, you can't put up that kind of performance as a coach and keep your job.

I had heard that some of the scheming has been taken away from Richard Smith. That would explain the improvement along with some of the personnel changes, but they should still be performing better.

powerfuldragon
12-08-2008, 02:43 PM
smith is still the worst defensive coordinator in the league and nothing is going to change that.


Gunther Cunningham and Joe Barry agree with your post.

gtexan02
12-08-2008, 02:51 PM
If our D starts out next year playing like they are right now, then I dont care who the coach is

Second Honeymoon
12-08-2008, 02:57 PM
Gunther Cunningham and Joe Barry agree with your post.

ok. 'one' of the worst defensive coordinators. still nothing worth keeping though especially after such a long and overall pathetic tenure.

get rid of the guy and upgrade. we spent money on quality coaching on offense in Gibbs and our offense, though flawed, is one of the most productive in the league.

Why not pull a Gibbs on the defensive front? If Kubiak and Smith can't find anyone better than Smith, they really aren't doing their job. some people think the defense's play recently could save Smith's job, I think the exact opposite. It just shows that we were playing too soft and vanilla for 3/4 of the season when we could have been playing at least somewhat aggressive like we are and not suck so bad.

I think the players deserve some new leadership on the defensive front. Smith needs to go and we need to do everything we can to bring in Haynesworth in Free Agency. If we can't get him we would at least force the Titans or possible other suitor to pay out the nose. I could care less about the perceived bad blood between Schaub and Albert. That would all go away and would really stick it to Bud Adams and the Titans really good. I think we need to make a call to Ray Lewis too because it would be nice to bring him into the fold as he ends his career and hopefully retain him in some defensive coaching capacity. he is going to make a fine DC, if not Head Coach, someday.

Texan_Bill
12-08-2008, 03:00 PM
The defense has done the same thing for 3 years now. The 1st half of the season they're a joke and the 2nd half they turn respectable. Personally, I'm tired of it. I was ready to dismiss him after last season and he has since proved he should've been.

He gone!! My .02

What he said....

HJam72
12-08-2008, 03:06 PM
I think the better question is:

Who would be an upgrade?

My question is:

Who wouldn't be? :)

Big Lou
12-08-2008, 03:07 PM
Obviousley Duante coming back was a big help, and getting some new blood in the LB Corp has helped.

However this last game was a diachotemy of the season. When the Texans blitz and the CB's are on the line they play tough defense. Then all of a sudden you see the Corners 10 yards off the Line of Scrimmage and poof they give up a big play!

Although Wilson has played well I think we need a big time safety.

If Smith stays and plays aggressive from the start fine, but if he plays vanilla he can hit the road.

Remember last year when because of injuries they had to dumb down the schemes. Thats when we got aggressive last year and it paid off.

powerfuldragon
12-08-2008, 03:08 PM
If Smith stays and plays aggressive from the start fine, but if he plays vanilla he can hit the road.


that's pretty much how i feel.

HJam72
12-08-2008, 03:55 PM
So, we're going to give him ANOTHER year to prove he won't be aggressive and THEN....what?....fire him 4 games in next season? Or just wait until the end of ANOTHER season to finally get rid of him? But Wait! There's more! He will finally get aggressive in week 11 next year and we'll have this same discussion for ANOTHER offseason. ENOUGH is ENOUGH! :foottap:

Double Barrel
12-08-2008, 03:59 PM
If they win 2 out of the next three to finish 8-8, my guess is that Smith stays. The FO will use the excuse of Ike and injuries to explain away the defense's slow start this season.

I'd like to see a proven DC come in and take the reigns, but that is not how this franchise has historically conducted it's business. Fast forward 9 months from now and we'll be having the same conversations that we had this year, IMO.

Goldensilence
12-08-2008, 04:46 PM
There is going to be some good names available this year for a new DC. I keep seeing the same things the past 3 years with RS, Bad start with a solid finish that ends up saving his job. What is funny is how this is he SAME squad more or less we started the year with some people saying that there isn't enough talent while some of us said there just is bad coaching. SOMETHING changed in the coaching and this squad has looked better.

If this team wants to make a serious playoff run next year and the one after it the defensive coaching staff outside of Rhodes needs to be overhauled. Mike Nolan, Marvin Lewis, Jerry Gray and Ron Rivera would be great replacements. We've go enough talent on the defensive to be middle of the road at least. I think if we go after one top tier guy at any level of the defense that'll speed up the process.

We're building this team pretty much after the Colts. We're close to having a dominating offense and with that we can let the defense catch up. If we want to finish off the offense we have to address the interior of the line. We need someone at RG and/or C. Myers or Brisiel might be serviceable by themselves but with both it's pulling the rest of the line down. I'd be more keen to drafting a top tier guard and having Myers take a C and having Brisiel. We got to keep Schaub upright and have someone that keep blow people off the line in our running game. I'm not sure if we absolutely need a thunder to go with lighting in Steve Slaton if we address the interior line but either way we need someone who can legitimately spell Steve.

The team has some pieces but it's up to Kubiak to bring it all together and to do that he's GOT to dump his Albatross, Richard Smith.

Ole Miss Texan
12-08-2008, 04:57 PM
I'd much rather have a dominant Defense the entire season, but one good thing about our defense peaking at the end of the season is WHEN we finally make the playoffs, they should be playing their best!

barrett
12-08-2008, 05:49 PM
it's not can or can't if they "play hard". it's if they "continue to improve."

i'm not saying what i want to happen. i'm saying what i think will happen and i've been saying it all along, so long as they show improvement he WILL be back next year. nothing about this regimes track record suggests anything else.

mussop
12-08-2008, 06:57 PM
Wasnt it Kubiak who told Smith to open it up? This makes me wonder if Kubiak was telling him not to be aggresive early. And if not he should of been telling him before week 10 to open it up. Either way seems like the Head coach should shoulder some of the blame.

In his year with the Dolphins as DC, Smith’s defense ranked 18th in the NFL in total defense and finished the season with 49 sacks, second-most in the league. Im not defending Smith by any means. I have wanted a change for some time now. I just want to know how much input into the defensive game Kubiack has.

Either way it would be best for this team to hire a new DC with a proven track record and let him have total control over the D. If we dont and all this happens again next year I say Kubiak is just as responsible and should be held accountable.

I like Kubiak and hope after 3 years hes learned enough lessons to get it right. If were having this same conversation next year at this time, bye bye Kubes. Hello Shanny Jr. The new youngest head coach in the NFL. Hopefully he will have learned from Kubiaks mistakes.

TexansFanatic
12-08-2008, 07:15 PM
The situation with Richard Smith is a prime example of how a coach can have the talent to win but his schemes prevent it.

Smith simply didn't have the stones to implement a more aggressive defense and was playing not to lose rather than playing to win.

I can't stand read-and-react, bend-but-don't-break defenses because that kind of D neutralizes the natural athletic ability of the defensive players on the field and allows the opposing offense to get comfortable.

The whole idea of the defense is to disrupt what the opponent is doing, not simply sit back and hope the opponent screws up. You don't win wars by sitting in the trenches and waiting for your opponent to fall on a grenade. You win by throwing grenades at the opponent.

So Smith basically wasted an opportunity at a playoff season by playing not to lose. And then when it became clear that the season had slipped away, he says "what the hell" and uncorks it.

Sorry, but if Smith is allowed to come back it will be a mistake. We've seen what he does under optimum conditions. Let's not give him a chance to blow the first half of another season.

Double Barrel
12-08-2008, 07:22 PM
We would have won at least one, if not more, of our games if our offense would've stopped coughing up the ball all the damn time. I can't blame that on defense. Heck, they make stops and we give it right back, never giving our D time to rest.

I'm not defending Richard Smith, but I do realize that the offense has blown some games, as well. Heck, we'd be 7-6 just based on Rosencopter not melting down.

We never really get a peak under the tent to see how our coaching staff operates. How independent is Smith from Kubiak? I mean, does Kubiak decide how aggressive to play or if we should be more conservative? It's tough to say fire a guy when you don't really know who is responsible for calling the shots. Accountability only works when you understand who should be held accountable. JMO

ObsiWan
12-08-2008, 07:29 PM
I think that there's another reason why Smith should go. His conservative/vanilla/no-risk play calling early in the year says he had no faith in his players. Most of these guys have been here all the time - all year. The fact that he waited until his a$$ was in the fire to turn them loose tells me he didn't think they could step up to the plate if he were to take some risks. And if that's how he felt, why did he let them STAY in the first place?!?
I, for one, don't want a coach who keeps players he doesn't trust to execute his scheme.
...whatever that scheme is.

The Pencil Neck
12-08-2008, 07:45 PM
Personally, I was saying Smith should go BEFORE the season started. But I knew he was going to stay.

I still think he should go. But unless our defense totally melts down the next few weeks, I think he's going to stay.

Scooter
12-08-2008, 08:00 PM
no no no no no no no NO. have yall forgotten the last two seasons? this isnt something new, we've played the same no scheme vanilla defense for the better part of 06 and 07 and 08 ... and we "figure it out" each year towards the end of the season. we cant afford the same thing next season. even this year we've had a very weak offensive schedule and have spent the whole season wanting smith gone. NO!

mexican_texan
12-08-2008, 08:04 PM
Even IF he is the current coordinator, the defense isn't good enough to save his job. We still can't stop the pass, though we're improving against the run.

Brandon420tx
12-08-2008, 09:01 PM
Well since one of the players said they'd walk out of defensive meeting thinking "that's never going to work" I say something needs to be done about the defensive coaching.

(old article don't remember, don't ask)

Vinny
12-08-2008, 09:04 PM
The last two years when the games meant something RS's defenses weren't good. Once out of the playoff running, when the team has nothing to play for other than "next season" the d has been respectable. That's not good enough....at least that's how I see it.

Jackie Chiles
12-08-2008, 09:13 PM
I really hope we look elsewhere in the offseason. Get someone with a proven track record/system or a young up and coming innovator. During the Capers era we were a bad 3-4 team, under Kubiak we have been a bad 4-3 team. I am getting tired of being so far behind the curve. Heck we don't even have to be ahead of the curve with our offense and the promise it has shown, but something needs to change defensively.

False Start
12-08-2008, 10:00 PM
I thought this was the beginning to a bad dream you had.......

I would like to see a change, but I have a feeling he'll still be here. :(

gtexan02
12-08-2008, 10:03 PM
If, as Herv says, the D plays as well as they are right now, who cares who the coach is? I don't get it?

If they end this year and then don't show up again next year, obviusly we'd all be unhappy.
But if we end this year on a defensive high and then do the same next year, why would you risk changing a known for something unknown?

DocBar
12-08-2008, 10:06 PM
This is one of the things that really ticks me off. Our D has only played "good"the last few games, NOT great. We're so used to mediocre to pathetic defenses that when we see a good defensive effort, we subconciously make it a "great" effort. We gave up over 400 yds of offense, another 100 yd rusher and our DB's are still flailing their arms around like blind men swatting at flies. I'm not trying to crap on anyones heart or down play one of the 3 greatest wins in our young history ( wins over Dallas and Indy hold the top 2), but I'm scared to death that Kubes and Rick Smith might actually feel this way and keep Richard Smith around for next year due. I mean we had to practically hold on for the win against Detroit. Smith needs to be ran out of Texas on a rail. Period. End of statement.

Lucky
12-08-2008, 10:39 PM
Hello Shanny Jr. The new youngest head coach in the NFL.
I think I'm gonna puke.

If Teflonman stays, he should be able to hire or fire any assistant he wants. Just as he has in previous seasons. Head coaches should always have final say on the roster and the staff. That way when the team succeeds or fails to produce, the credit/blame falls at his feet. If a head coach has to fire an assistant in order to keep his job, he already has one foot in the grave.

Marcus
12-08-2008, 10:52 PM
I've seen this mentioned, oh, about 3 different times on this thread so far . . . and so far . . . nada.

If you fire Smith, who do you replace him with? I mean, it's not as if premier DC's are just chompin at the bit to come work for . . (ahem) the Houston freaking Texans.

If you can really be sure that you're upgrading, then by all means, upgrade.

But to just fire him without finding someone else first beforehand ??? Yup, that'll work. :rolleyes:

DocBar
12-08-2008, 10:52 PM
I think I'm gonna puke.

If Teflonman stays, he should be able to hire or fire any assistant he wants. Just as he has in previous seasons. Head coaches should always have final say on the roster and the staff. That way when the team succeeds or fails to produce, the credit/blame falls at his feet. If a head coach has to fire an assistant in order to keep his job, he already has one foot in the grave.
I'm not sure who Teflonman is; I've had a busy football season and haven't been on the boards much, but you're right. A HC should have complete control of his staff. If he can't control his staff, he can't control his team. FWIW, I like Kubes and think he's rounding into a pretty OK HC. He has his moments, but all of them do.
:tiphat:

Wolf
12-08-2008, 11:07 PM
The last two years when the games meant something RS's defenses weren't good. Once out of the playoff running, when the team has nothing to play for other than "next season" the d has been respectable. That's not good enough....at least that's how I see it.

agreed, early on I gave RS the benefit of the doubt being we switched from a 3-4 to a 4-3 and had to get the personnel to run it but...


our defense plays "not to lose" and then when the playoffs are out of reach our defense plays "to win" and takes more chances (for the most part. we still don't have the personnel yet ) .. I am not defending richard smith but we seem to have a jekyl and hyde kind of defense.

I personally would like to see an upgrade

Mario made RS look good later in the season llast year when he "kicked it up a notch" .. we need the other players on the line to develop that too

Marcus
12-08-2008, 11:18 PM
I'm not sure who Teflonman is . . .

Teflonman is the name given Gary Kubiak by people who want him fired.

DocBar
12-09-2008, 12:13 AM
Teflonman is the name given Gary Kubiak by people who want him fired.
That's what I thought, but sometimes what I think isn't what I thought it should be. We're the #3 offense in the league. Kubes has a loyalty(mabe he's too nice) problem NOT a coaching problem. RS ( The REAL Teflonman-couldn't run him off with a sh*tty mop) should be gone next season amd the D can start playing to its strengths and not some fictional scheme of react and retract.

Runner
12-09-2008, 12:32 AM
If they end this year and then don't show up again next year, obviusly we'd all be unhappy.
But if we end this year on a defensive high and then do the same next year, why would you risk changing a known for something unknown?

The problem is that historically it has been the former with this defense. We don't know before hand if the defense would start out strong next year - all we know is it hasn't in the past.

If management decides the D will start out strong and keeps Smith, and it starts out flat, then what? I don't want to listen to McNair tell us that "evaluations are made at the end of the season" again as the fans ride out another season struggling to be non-losers.


Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
---George Santayana

DocBar
12-09-2008, 12:40 AM
The problem is that historically it has been the former with this defense. We don't know before hand if the defense would start out strong next year - all we know is it hasn't in the past.

If management decides the D will start out strong and keeps Smith, and it starts out flat, then what? I don't want to listen to McNair tell us that "evaluations are made at the end of the season" again as the fans ride out another season struggling to be non-losers.
I must spread rep....

threetoedpete
12-09-2008, 04:04 AM
My question is:

Who wouldn't be? :)

Well if the Chardonnay and tofu Yorks turn loose of Singletary.....

I don't think this is going to happen. I think what has happened is that
behind the doors Kubiak got tired of all the bitching, saw his fourth year in jeopardy and let the dogs of war slip. He didn't want too. He felt like he had to. Y'all forget the cap situation....twenty-three million....they had to resign Mario. What did they have left in the till for free agents and emergencies ?


I keep seeing this post of how good the talent is on defense. Who are we talking about here ? We've got one elite player at every level and a bunch of had beens and wanna bes at the other eight. I mean really, of the second tier group on the roster, who are you defining as starters anywhere but here ? I wanna see you "we've got far too much talent" guys post that sheet ? Who's going to replace who from our roster on another four-three defensive team. Good luck with that. Prove it or stop posting it.

Robinson's back. And the only decisions to be made with the defense now is who do we draft and how much to redo Robinson for ?

Or.... if we redo him at all and draft a young CB. Is he a sixty million dollar front line elite five NFL corner ?

noxiousdog
12-09-2008, 08:28 AM
I've seen this mentioned, oh, about 3 different times on this thread so far . . . and so far . . . nada.

If you fire Smith, who do you replace him with? I mean, it's not as if premier DC's are just chompin at the bit to come work for . . (ahem) the Houston freaking Texans.

If you can really be sure that you're upgrading, then by all means, upgrade.

But to just fire him without finding someone else first beforehand ??? Yup, that'll work. :rolleyes:


It will work because Richard Smith has been darn near the worst DC in football over the last 4 years. But there have been plenty of names mentioned. Nolan, Crenel, anyone off the Giant's or Eagle's staff.

You have to do your homework of course, but there's a difference in firing a mediocre coach that has shown improvement whose players support him vs. firing a guy that's been arguable the worst coordinator in the league for a sustained period of time who the players call out in the media.

Pantherstang84
12-09-2008, 08:36 AM
It will work because Richard Smith has been darn near the worst DC in football over the last 4 years. But there have been plenty of names mentioned. Nolan, Crenel, anyone off the Giant's or Eagle's staff.

You have to do your homework of course, but there's a difference in firing a mediocre coach that has shown improvement whose players support him vs. firing a guy that's been arguable the worst coordinator in the league for a sustained period of time who the players call out in the media.

That right there is the final nail in the coffin to me. When I saw that, I figured RS was already gone.

Señor Stan
12-09-2008, 08:53 AM
I've seen this mentioned, oh, about 3 different times on this thread so far . . . and so far . . . nada.

If you fire Smith, who do you replace him with? I mean, it's not as if premier DC's are just chompin at the bit to come work for . . (ahem) the Houston freaking Texans.

If you can really be sure that you're upgrading, then by all means, upgrade.

But to just fire him without finding someone else first beforehand ??? Yup, that'll work. :rolleyes:

Yeah!

What respectable coach with a good track record would want to sully themselves with what is going down in Houston.

Sincerely,

Ray Rhodes and Alex Gibbs

HJam72
12-09-2008, 09:08 AM
Well if the Chardonnay and tofu Yorks turn loose of Singletary.....

I don't think this is going to happen. I think what has happened is that
behind the doors Kubiak got tired of all the bitching, saw his fourth year in jeopardy and let the dogs of war slip. He didn't want too. He felt like he had to. Y'all forget the cap situation....twenty-three million....they had to resign Mario. What did they have left in the till for free agents and emergencies ?


I keep seeing this post of how good the talent is on defense. Who are we talking about here ? We've got one elite player at every level and a bunch of had beens and wanna bes at the other eight. I mean really, of the second tier group on the roster, who are you defining as starters anywhere but here ? I wanna see you "we've got far too much talent" guys post that sheet ? Who's going to replace who from our roster on another four-three defensive team. Good luck with that. Prove it or stop posting it.

Robinson's back. And the only decisions to be made with the defense now is who do we draft and how much to redo Robinson for ?

Or.... if we redo him at all and draft a young CB. Is he a sixty million dollar front line elite five NFL corner ?

I don't think we have such great talent on D, but I do think it's better than what has been shown. The main thing I think of is Okoye and TJ getting used like they are bigger, slower DTs. I think TJ is used primarily in the wrong position and I think if we want to to "read and (then) react" we shouldn't have Okoye or TJ on this team. Their value is in their quickness (for DTs that is), not their brute strength.

Obviously, many of us believe we don't blitz enough as well. Then there's the show-them-you're-finally-going-to-blitz-right-before-you-finally-do-it problem that was talked about earlier this year. Much of these problems are magically disappearing right about now....for the 3rd year in a row.

Then there's the start Petey Faggins against many of the best WRs in the league because he is a veteran syndrome. Since when does being a veteran make you twice as fast as you ever were before?

Anyway, I just think that RS needs to go. I think we have a DC that searches for ways to fail and I would rather see us take a chance on anybody that has just about any prerequisites for the job, including Frank, who is already waiting for it. Maybe somebody else is a better choice (that we can get), but I'd take Frank in a heartbeat right now, because Frank isn't a proven failure.

I also suspect that we will never get a ball-hawking FS until Mr. Richard is gone, because I believe it is probably him who sticks with this interchangeable safeties business. I want a real FS. Mr. Wilson is just fine at SS.

gtexan02
12-09-2008, 09:10 AM
The problem is that historically it has been the former with this defense. We don't know before hand if the defense would start out strong next year - all we know is it hasn't in the past.

If management decides the D will start out strong and keeps Smith, and it starts out flat, then what? I don't want to listen to McNair tell us that "evaluations are made at the end of the season" again as the fans ride out another season struggling to be non-losers.

Whoops, I misread Herv's original post. I thought he said we were assuming they came to play next year as well.

DocBar
12-09-2008, 09:20 AM
I don't think we have such great talent on D, but I do think it's better than what has been shown. The main thing I think of is Okoye and TJ getting used like they are bigger, slower DTs. I think TJ is used primarily in the wrong position and I think if we want to to "read and (then) react" we shouldn't have Okoye or TJ on this team. Their value is in their quickness (for DTs that is), not their brute strength.

Obviously, many of us believe we don't blitz enough as well. Then there's the show-them-you're-finally-going-to-blitz-right-before-you-finally-do-it problem that was talked about earlier this year. Much of these problems are magically disappearing right about now....for the 3rd year in a row.

Then there's the start Petey Faggins against many of the best WRs in the league because he is a veteran syndrome. Since when does being a veteran make you twice as fast as you ever were before?

Anyway, I just think that RS needs to go. I think we have a DC that searches for ways to fail and I would rather see us take a chance on anybody that has just about any prerequisites for the job, including Frank, who is already waiting for it. Maybe somebody else is a better choice (that we can get), but I'd take Frank in a heartbeat right now, because Frank isn't a proven failure.

I also suspect that we will never get a ball-hawking FS until Mr. Richard is gone, because I believe it is probably him who sticks with this interchangeable safeties business. I want a real FS. Mr. Wilson is just fine at SS. It seems like RS tries to be too cute with his defenses. It's like he has Casserly Syndrome and wants to show how smart he is by playing Faggins against the best in the league, insisting CBs play only one side of the field and relying on only his front four to read, react AND get to the QB before the coverages break down. I hear the Sinatra song " I Did It My Way" right now. He's continually done it his way in spite of the glaring failures.
As far potential DCs to replace RS, I think just about ANYONE could. There are posters on here that have a better grasp of the strengths and weaknesses of our players than Smith has.

Marcus
12-09-2008, 10:32 AM
There are posters on here that are so full of themselves, they actually think they have a better grasp of the strengths and weaknesses of our players than Smith has.

Thought I'd fix it for ya.

Goldensilence
12-09-2008, 10:33 AM
Well if the Chardonnay and tofu Yorks turn loose of Singletary.....

I don't think this is going to happen. I think what has happened is that
behind the doors Kubiak got tired of all the bitching, saw his fourth year in jeopardy and let the dogs of war slip. He didn't want too. He felt like he had to. Y'all forget the cap situation....twenty-three million....they had to resign Mario. What did they have left in the till for free agents and emergencies ?


I keep seeing this post of how good the talent is on defense. Who are we talking about here ? We've got one elite player at every level and a bunch of had beens and wanna bes at the other eight. I mean really, of the second tier group on the roster, who are you defining as starters anywhere but here ? I wanna see you "we've got far too much talent" guys post that sheet ? Who's going to replace who from our roster on another four-three defensive team. Good luck with that. Prove it or stop posting it.

Robinson's back. And the only decisions to be made with the defense now is who do we draft and how much to redo Robinson for ?

Or.... if we redo him at all and draft a young CB. Is he a sixty million dollar front line elite five NFL corner ?

Man your posts should come with a a decryption ring. Resign Mario? If I remember right he signed a 6 year rookie deal. He's got three left. Did you mean Ryans or perhaps OD?


It's not that anyone here is unrealistic in thinking we have pro bowl talent across the board on defense, but we have enough talent to at least field a mediocre defense instead of this joke of a defense we've seen from Richard Smith. I'm not asking to jump from the lower 20s into the top 10. This team can get to the playoffs on offense and middle of the pack defense next year.

CBs covering certain halves of the field is a nice idea if you've got to legit corners. However, if one corner just doesn't have the talent to even keep up with an elite WR you've got to put your best corner on him. Best example of this is last year's game against Carolina.

Our front four is terribly used. We have gap disrupting DTs and we're trying to use them as stand up, linemen engulfing DTs. If you look it up on NFL.com our DTs stack up well to the Giants starters in stature. The difference is how they are used.

It's up and down bad coaching and poor scheming, if there is one. Right now I could see a High school coach putting together a better game plan on defense than Smith.

Mr teX
12-09-2008, 11:26 AM
Well I'm glad the defense has started playing better but they started playing better when Richard Smith started being more aggressive after the fact that our season was basically over. If he continues to be aggressive then fine but I have a feeling he will resort back to being timid when it counts. I could be wrong and I can be from time to time.:D

These are my thoughts....I don't mind if he stays, but he needs to start the season off how his defensive calls have been helping them finish the last 3 years....making aggressive calls & allowing the talent of our guys to shine through. we could stand to let our speed DT's utilize their best attribute at bit more - speed, but the main thing is keeping the aggression.

I'm pretty sure we're going defense in the early part of the draft so he'll get more talent, i just hope he doesn't feel the need to scale the aggression back at the beginning of the season again just so the newbies can pick it up. Keep the playcalling the same as it is now, but work the rookies & FA's in during the game/season.

BigBull17
12-09-2008, 12:11 PM
I think the better question is:

Who would be an upgrade?

The better question, who isnt an upgrade? I would bet alot that he has alot less to do with the defense right now. I think his playcalling and gameplaning has been dished out to other people. To much of a difference from 4 weeks ago to now.

76Texan
12-09-2008, 12:40 PM
OK, so I've heard folks saying things like:

We need another DT, maybe two. Cut TJ.
We need another DE to compliment Mario. Cut Weaver.
Besides Mario, the Texans have no D-lineman worth a darn.
We need another LB, maybe two (early in the season.)
Cut Greenwood.
Awhh, Adibi can't play early because he's injured.
Diles needs more seasonings! Aw, he's injured.
We need at least another CB to complement Dunta, that is if Dunta can come back and play at the previous level.
Reeves has no ball skills. Reeves can't play with his back turned.
Cut Faggins.
What's wrong with Bennett?
Dunta looks rusty (when he first return.)
Wilson is better than Demps.
CC can't get to the QB.
We need another safety, maybe two (early in the season.)

And the solution is to fire the DC?
Doesn't sound too logical to me.

Sure, we want to improve as much as we can, every position on the team.
Be it management, coaches, players.

We get somebody new in as an upgrade at DC, I would agree.
Firing Richard Smith, not!

Perhaps we should look to fire the other Smith who had not done a good enough job of bringing in the players that the above fans were calling for! :headhurts:

Runner
12-09-2008, 01:25 PM
That amalgamation of opinions of defensive players is misleading. I doubt there are many posters who think the Texans should fire the DC AND replace half the roster. A more realistic breakdown is that part if the board blames the talent, part blames the coaching. Some blame a little, but not all, of both.

I do agree that Rick Smith's performance should also be reviewed along with the entire front office. The Texans have some lingering corporate culture issues.

DocBar
12-09-2008, 02:02 PM
Thought I'd fix it for ya. Thanks for the fix!!

That amalgamation of opinions of defensive players is misleading. I doubt there are many posters who think the Texans should fire the DC AND replace half the roster. A more realistic breakdown is that part if the board blames the talent, part blames the coaching. Some blame a little, but not all, of both.

I do agree that Rick Smith's performance should also be reviewed along with the entire front office. The Texans have some lingering corporate culture issues. I think the biggest problem is HOW we're using our talent as opposed to not HAVING enough talent, especially with the front 7. Our biggest need there is another OLB if Adibi doesn't pan out and a pure, bad ass speed rusher off the edge to compliment MW. If used properly, I think TJ and AO can be very good DT's for us and I really like our reserves along the line.

HOU-TEX
12-09-2008, 02:08 PM
That amalgamation of opinions of defensive players is misleading. I doubt there are many posters who think the Texans should fire the DC AND replace half the roster. A more realistic breakdown is that part if the board blames the talent, part blames the coaching. Some blame a little, but not all, of both.

I do agree that Rick Smith's performance should also be reviewed along with the entire front office. The Texans have some lingering corporate culture issues.

Amalgamation = New word for HOU-TEX :cool:

Thanks Runner. It's been a while since you've thrown out a new gem like this. You ain't slackin on me are ya? :cool:

76Texan
12-09-2008, 02:48 PM
I did a whole analysis of the Steelers' game.
It's too long, I will just recap our redzone defense.
Is it RS's problem with scheming or the players were just plain bad?

1st qtr

1-10-HST 13 (6:32) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to H.Ward to HST 7 for 6 yards (F.Bennett).
Bennett was bumped by Ward, who got enough separation and released to the right flat for an easy 6 yd gain.
A mistake there by Bennett, but also a good play by Ward.
The Steelers loaded the right side to block, Big Ben rolled out.
No time for the rush to get there.

2-4-HST 7 (5:51) W.Parker right end for 7 yards,.
Bennett missed the tackle on the outside, got his arms on the leg, but a stiff arm by Parker to the face jarred him loose.
Bennett would have done better keeping containement (or dive in head down.)
Greenwood was late in reaction. He bought the inside run and couldn't recover nor had enough speed to chase the runner down.
If Greenwood had gone ahead and make a diving attempt down low instead of trying make a tackle around the waste, Diles likely would have enough time to drive him out of bound just short of the goal line.
TOUCHDOWN

2nd QTR - 11:03
2-12 @HTN 13
Parker draw run to the left.
Diles was caught in the Guard's block too easily.
Reeves got blocked by the WR, then tried and missed a high tackle.
Demps missed the tackle badly.
TOUCHDOWN

9:07
1-10 @HTN 13
Ward beats Bennett again on the right side.
C.C. Brown was frozen by the play action and late to help.
Pass was gone in 1-1/2 secs.
TOUCHDOWN.

3rd qtr 10:31
2-7 @HTN 16
Demps bit on the run fake, late to cover the fullback out of the backfield.
10 yd completion to the right.
Pass gone in 1-1/2secs just before Diles get there.

2-4 @HTN4
Toss play to the left.
Reeves lined up originally on our far right, followed the WR too far to the inside, slipped, tried to recovered, got hammered by the releasing RG, impeding Demps.
Demps did not read the play correctly either. He took a couple of mini steps to his left and couldn't recover quickly enough.
Mario took the inside (most likely by design, since he was fuming at Reeves after the play) and was out of the picture. If it was read-and-react, Mario would most probably try to hold up the LT first, and decide where the play is going.
TOUCHDOWN.

2:10
3-5 @HTN 16
Shotgun.
Miscommunications???
Diles released Ward too early. He didn't give enough of a bump.
Demps couldn't get to the open space in the zone quick enough to help.
Diles lost his man in under 2 secs. Demps was late and also took a bad angle.
TOUCHDOWN.

Texanmike02
12-09-2008, 02:51 PM
Chicken, egg.

Yeah one of those. Did we blitz more because of who was on the field or was it situational? The reason I ask this is we had some slow vets out there who I think weren't capable of blitzing. Once you bring in an Abidi et all you open yourself up to covering people as you blitz. At the same time, we've seen this same situation 3 years running.


This is going to shock some people. I think it is time for him to go.... IF:

1. You can upgrade. I don't think the job he's done justifies firing him with no replacement in mind. I know many disagree with this but he isn't the worst in the league. Given the talent he has (or lack there of) he's got this defense right about where it belongs. He's average. I think he's probably a little conservative, but I don't know how much of that is related to the level of talent on the field.

2. You improve personnel. I don't think we have the personnel on defense to be a top 10 defense. We need the fat guy in the middle. I must sound like a broken record. We need a safety.

Mike

noxiousdog
12-09-2008, 03:04 PM
2. You improve personnel. I don't think we have the personnel on defense to be a top 10 defense. We need the fat guy in the middle. I must sound like a broken record. We need a safety.

Mike

Forget top 10. Smith hasn't been in top 20 for 3 years!

That's the issue. He hasn't even had a lucky year. We can rag on Kubiak, but at 8-8 he managed to be better than more than half the teams (as indicated by draft position) even with a terrible defense. Richard Smith hasn't come close to that with Okoye, Johnson, Williams, and Robinson all as first rounders, and Demeco as a high second. We can argue whether or not the talent is there to be a top 10, but there's NO EXCUSE for them not accidently finishing in the top 20 once in the last 3 years.

76Texan
12-09-2008, 03:05 PM
Chicken, egg.

Yeah one of those. Did we blitz more because of who was on the field or was it situational? The reason I ask this is we had some slow vets out there who I think weren't capable of blitzing. Once you bring in an Abidi et all you open yourself up to covering people as you blitz. At the same time, we've seen this same situation 3 years running.


This is going to shock some people. I think it is time for him to go.... IF:

1. You can upgrade. I don't think the job he's done justifies firing him with no replacement in mind. I know many disagree with this but he isn't the worst in the league. Given the talent he has (or lack there of) he's got this defense right about where it belongs. He's average. I think he's probably a little conservative, but I don't know how much of that is related to the level of talent on the field.

2. You improve personnel. I don't think we have the personnel on defense to be a top 10 defense. We need the fat guy in the middle. I must sound like a broken record. We need a safety.

MikeWe all want that big guy in the middle. And if Okam can't get there, then we need to find another one.

And of course, we all love to have a ballhawk at safety.

It's not a surprise that we began to have more rooms to maneuver when we found a guy who is a little more steady back there in Wilson, an OLB with speed and range in Adibi, and the re-emergence of Dunta.

Specnatz
12-09-2008, 03:05 PM
Teflonman is the name given Gary Kubiak by people who want him fired.

Of course with the firing of Kubiak means that the ZBS is scrapped and that also means that the team wasted a first round pick on a ZBS LT.

Back to square freaking one. WooHoo. :gun:

gtexan02
12-09-2008, 03:12 PM
Whoops, I misread Herv's original post. I thought he said we were assuming they came to play next year as well.

I didn't misread it! The choice for the poll is "As long as the Texans start 2009 playing hard, he can stay"

So stick by my choice. If the Texans start 09 playing like they are now, who the hell cares who the coach is?

Runner
12-09-2008, 03:13 PM
The jump in defensive performance occured because one two things happened (disregarding analysis of the quality of the opposition):

1) Many of the defensive players improved all at one.
2) The coaches changed their calls and approach.

Which is more likely?

IlliniJen
12-09-2008, 03:13 PM
I'll start burning things down and flipping cars if they bring Dick Smith back as DC.

Runner
12-09-2008, 03:17 PM
I didn't misread it! The choice for the poll is "As long as the Texans start 2009 playing hard, he can stay"

So stick by my choice. If the Texans start 09 playing like they are now, who the hell cares who the coach is?
So the poll is asking us to state our hindsight in advance given the assumption of one out of many possible futures.

I think I understand now. :)

76Texan
12-09-2008, 03:18 PM
The jump in defensive performance occured because one two things happened (disregarding analysis of the quality of the opposition):

1) Many of the defensive players improved all at one.
2) The coaches changed their calls and approach.

Which is more likely?
Per my above post!

When you start having guys in the back (including your OLB) who can cover worth a darn, you have more flexibility. Simple football, really!

gtexan02
12-09-2008, 03:19 PM
So the poll is asking us to state our hindsight in advance given the assumption of one out of many possible futures.

I think I understand now. :)

Its definitely not the question that it isn't, which is to say, that it is the question that it isn't trying to not answer. Right?

Runner
12-09-2008, 03:24 PM
Forget top 10. Smith hasn't been in top 20 for 3 years!

That's the issue. He hasn't even had a lucky year. We can rag on Kubiak, but at 8-8 he managed to be better than more than half the teams (as indicated by draft position) even with a terrible defense. Richard Smith hasn't come close to that with Okoye, Johnson, Williams, and Robinson all as first rounders, and Demeco as a high second. We can argue whether or not the talent is there to be a top 10, but there's NO EXCUSE for them not accidently finishing in the top 20 once in the last 3 years.

Didn't Texans Chick have a post or a blog a few weeks ago pointing out the defense hasn't been in the top THIRTY under Smith?

Runner
12-09-2008, 03:31 PM
Per my above post!

When you start having guys in the back (including your OLB) who can cover worth a darn, you have more flexibility. Simple football, really!

Does it favor Smith that injuries forced him to put in the superior player he had on the bench for the inferior OLB he was playing? IMO it does the opposite.

SheTexan
12-09-2008, 03:32 PM
The title of this thread is x-rated and totally unexceptable!! Please refrain from burning Texan fans eyeballs!!

Thank you!!
ST:headhurts::shetexan:

awtysst
12-09-2008, 04:07 PM
I think the better question is:

Who would be an upgrade?

Well, for starters, just about anyone on this board would be an upgrade. But if you are asking who I would contact, here is the list:
1. Sean McDermott: He is the current DB coach but has been with Jim Johnson for 10 years. He has learned the exotic blitz packages and schemes that Jim Johnson has instill over the years. I think he would be my first choice.

2. Mike Waufle-Dline coach for the Giants. he loses Strahan and Osi and he still produces a constant pressure on the opposing QB. I would love to see what he could do in Htown.

3. Gregg Williams: He is currently the D coordinator in Jax and could be gone at the end of the year. He is someone who has had solid top notch D's wherever he goes. Under him, the Bills and Redskins were extremely stingy on the defensive side of the ball. He is a more seasoned coach and may not be available. However, if he is, we should certainly look hard at him.

Double Barrel
12-09-2008, 04:10 PM
I have given it some thought, waited for my mandatory 24-hour-after-game rule, and I still come to the same vote...

No power in the universe can make him an acceptable DC. He must go!

Smith has done nothing to impress me, the past couple of weeks not withstanding. Even if you want to point at the talent, you still have to ask the question of WHO evaluated and picked that talent? It all comes back to the DC.

With that being said, he'll probably be back next year.

ChildressTitanMan
12-09-2008, 04:33 PM
Maybe Kubiak will change things up.

After all it looked like Smith had cost Kubiak his job a month ago

76Texan
12-09-2008, 04:39 PM
The jump in defensive performance occured because one two things happened (disregarding analysis of the quality of the opposition):

1) Many of the defensive players improved all at one.
2) The coaches changed their calls and approach.

Which is more likely?Remember also that Green Bay has a good offense.

We shut down the Browns.

The Jags have a down year offensively. Our D was killing them until we went preventive to protect the big lead.

I don't bet football, but I remember thinking right after the Jags scored the next to last TD... LOL, I think, the total score will probably be 47, just 1 or 1/2 point the O/U line as a teaser. Thus the final on-side kick, LOL!

The following week at GB, when Kris missed that FG, I told Diapher... Hey, I think they try to keep the score at 45. (The O/U was 47, I believe.) And when the Texans went for 2, I said, haha, KB is going to kick the winning FG.
Sure enough, LOL! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

mexican_texan
12-09-2008, 08:30 PM
The jump in defensive performance occured because one two things happened (disregarding analysis of the quality of the opposition):

1) Many of the defensive players improved all at one.
2) The coaches changed their calls and approach.

Which is more likely?
Or

C) Adibi is that good/Greenwood is that bad

noxiousdog
12-10-2008, 08:48 AM
Didn't Texans Chick have a post or a blog a few weeks ago pointing out the defense hasn't been in the top THIRTY under Smith?

That's all 4 years in aggregate. So, yes, she did.

Runner
12-10-2008, 09:51 AM
That's all 4 years in aggregate. So, yes, she did.

Being 31st or 32nd isn't bad in a 64 team league. It's about average.


Too bad the NFL has just 32 teams. That makes it execrable.

noxiousdog
12-10-2008, 10:02 AM
Being 31st or 32nd isn't bad in a 64 team league. It's about average.


Too bad the NFL has just 32 teams. That makes it execrable.

That's what's irritating in this thread. If the Texans had finished with a record of 5 wins 3 years in a row (roughly 22nd in the league... smith's -best- showing), we'd all be calling for Kubiak's head no questions asked. I can't believe people are giving Smith any slack for such a horrible showing.

And for those playing along at home, while the defense has been terrible for 4 years, Smith has only been DC for 3.