PDA

View Full Version : Schaub should not start Sunday


junior
12-03-2008, 08:29 PM
I know I crack on him a lot, but, I don't think for him it's a good idea to have his first start at Green Bay. I think the extreme cold could really hurt him because if the knee starts to swell or takes even a small bump, then the possibility of it stiffening up on him is too risky.

Wait another week, let him be at home where he plays way better than on the road, because if this is the guy they are banking the future on (which I wouldn't), then why put his knee at even more risk and losing him for the final three and maybe even another surgury.

I know you can't play or coach scared, but common sense should be a part in decision making. We are not going to the playoffs and even if Sage starts and loses we still have a shot at .500.

And remember I am not a fan of his but you still don't risk the long term health of your QB.

nero THE zero
12-03-2008, 08:33 PM
Doesn't matter. He'll get hurt against Tennessee again.

TexansMVP
12-03-2008, 08:52 PM
Doesn't matter. He'll get hurt against Tennessee again.

Ouch...but it could be plausible.

Insideop
12-03-2008, 11:17 PM
I know I crack on him a lot, but, I don't think for him it's a good idea to have his first start at Green Bay. I think the extreme cold could really hurt him because if the knee starts to swell or takes even a small bump, then the possibility of it stiffening up on him is too risky.

Wait another week, let him be at home where he plays way better than on the road, because if this is the guy they are banking the future on (which I wouldn't), then why put his knee at even more risk and losing him for the final three and maybe even another surgury.

I know you can't play or coach scared, but common sense should be a part in decision making. We are not going to the playoffs and even if Sage starts and loses we still have a shot at .500.

And remember I am not a fan of his but you still don't risk the long term health of your QB.

I know what you're saying, but at this point, I want him to play. Yes, he could get hurt, but that's the point. Let's find out now if we have our future QB or just an oft injured backup. I want to know now if we can rely on him as our QB or do we need to take one in the Draft/FA (probably will anyway) that is tough, reliable, and good.

I like Schaub and think he can be a very good QB in this league. But, if he is going to be out half the season with injuries every year, we aren't going to get very far as a team. JMHO!

b0ng
12-03-2008, 11:28 PM
I'm all for him showing how much of a warrior he is if he thinks he's ready to go. If I was sold as Schaub being our long-term answer, then I might not be so heady on the idea of him playing if he's not 100%. But since the jury is still out, and he wants to show that he can go, why not.

Norg
12-03-2008, 11:34 PM
i agree has well if hes 100% a rdy to go and plays well in practice then sure see what he can do but if there is any doubt i say let sage start one more game

TBO this greenbay game in not important

i wanna win the Tenn home game thats more important IMO

barrett
12-04-2008, 01:00 AM
i'm curious... since sage has played very consistently this year, (consistently mediocre) he may not get much interest next year. we may not have to look for a backup qb.

a side note: Nall suited on Monday. When was the last time we suited 3 QB's?

headsplint
12-04-2008, 01:08 AM
Watching the video on the dot com about Schaub preparing for the Packers, Dre, K-Dub, and OD all seem like they are excited about Matt coming back. They threw in the we support whoever is out there but reading between the lines it seemed to me they really wanted him back out there. I know AJ does, they have a chemistry regardless of what's happened. When Matt is out there AJ gets more looks and when AJ plays better we play better.

I don't think the coaching staff would put him out there if they thought he wasn't ready. I'm sure they know the season is basically a wash, so why risk it. I'm sure he is ready, and if we end up in a shootout with the Pack, Matt is our best option.

ubecool454
12-04-2008, 02:00 AM
I know I crack on him a lot, but, I don't think for him it's a good idea to have his first start at Green Bay. I think the extreme cold could really hurt him because if the knee starts to swell or takes even a small bump, then the possibility of it stiffening up on him is too risky.

Wait another week, let him be at home where he plays way better than on the road, because if this is the guy they are banking the future on (which I wouldn't), then why put his knee at even more risk and losing him for the final three and maybe even another surgury.

I know you can't play or coach scared, but common sense should be a part in decision making. We are not going to the playoffs and even if Sage starts and loses we still have a shot at .500.

And remember I am not a fan of his but you still don't risk the long term health of your QB.
This is football and people get hurt. I'm sure the coaches and doctors know a lot more about his physical condition than we do. PLAY THE MAN!

Hooston Texan
12-04-2008, 06:08 AM
If Schaub is able, he needs to play. By "able", I mean that the knee is not affecting his throwing (as it clearly did on the pick he threw at Minnesota). I can live with some lost mobility.

He has not proven he can stay upright, so he needs to get in and stay in as many games as possible to show the team that he is reliable.

We're not going to the playoffs this year, so we're not risking any short-term gains by playing him again. Long term, even if limited mobility leads to him getting hurt at Lambeau, he has the whole offseason to recuperate to be ready for 2009.

Tedc
12-04-2008, 06:30 AM
This is football and people get hurt. I'm sure the coaches and doctors know a lot more about his physical condition than we do. PLAY THE MAN!

Signed,


Anybody BUT T-Mac.

Tedc
12-04-2008, 06:33 AM
I'm all for him showing how much of a warrior he is if he thinks he's ready to go. If I was sold as Schaub being our long-term answer, then I might not be so heady on the idea of him playing if he's not 100%. But since the jury is still out, and he wants to show that he can go, why not.


I don't put Schaub and warrior in the same thought very often. Schaub to me is kind of like a fighter with a glass jaw.

We just need some way to protect his jaw.

Hopefully he will make a complete recovery and will never get injured again.

Malloy
12-04-2008, 07:04 AM
Personally I am not buying into the whole 'injury-prone' thing, most players that get hurt are more than just bruised, they have forn ligaments, broken bones... there's nothing soft or prone about that, its just a lot of really bad luck.

My major problem with Schaub is how he reacts after getting hit/hurt, and as much as I want him to succeed, every time I see him take a hit I fear that I will see the shell-shocked deer-in-the-headlights face on him the next play.

The only way we'll know if he progressed from the shell-shock reaction is to see him calm and ready after getting hit, so... play him if he is ready physically.

Tedc
12-04-2008, 07:12 AM
... there's nothing soft or prone about that, its just a lot of really bad luck.

My major problem with Schaub is how he reacts after getting hit/hurt, and as much as I want him to succeed, every time I see him take a hit I fear that I will see the shell-shocked deer-in-the-headlights face on him the next play.

Isn't that an indication of being soft?

bigbrewster2000
12-04-2008, 08:37 AM
Isn't that an indication of being soft?

It would be IF he were making the deer in the headlights look. Thankfully he doesnt and he keeps going. I dont see any reason for Schaub not to play this game if he's ready to go and all indications are that he is.

Its not a good argument to say dont play him because its a road game. You have to be able to play well no matter the venue. You never know, with the big win on Monday this team may really be getting up for a game at Lambeau. Its exciting r most of these guys since they havent played there before.

I am far more concerned with the defense than I am with how the offense plays this game.

Buffi2
12-04-2008, 08:51 AM
If Schaub is ready - he has to play. I also think that the team wants him behind center. Sage has become entirely too hesitant along with inconsistent. Sage may not have the deer in the headlights look - but he plays like he does. No confidence and he doesn't have that bond with Dre that Schaub does. When Dre gets the ball more, we win - it is almost that simple. Someone has to make up for our lack of defense.

Schaub also needs to prove to himself and the coaching staff(and me) that he isn't made of glass - he can take a hit and not be out for the next month. If he is going to be our starting QB - he has to stay healthy period. No time like the present, better now than next year.

mexican_texan
12-04-2008, 08:54 AM
i'm curious... since sage has played very consistently this year, (consistently mediocre) he may not get much interest next year. we may not have to look for a backup qb.

a side note: Nall suited on Monday. When was the last time we suited 3 QB's?
4. Turk threw the best pass of the night.

MannyFresh
12-04-2008, 08:54 AM
Personally I am not buying into the whole 'injury-prone' thing, most players that get hurt are more than just bruised, they have forn ligaments, broken bones... there's nothing soft or prone about that, its just a lot of really bad luck.

My major problem with Schaub is how he reacts after getting hit/hurt, and as much as I want him to succeed, every time I see him take a hit I fear that I will see the shell-shocked deer-in-the-headlights face on him the next play.

The only way we'll know if he progressed from the shell-shock reaction is to see him calm and ready after getting hit, so... play him if he is ready physically.

Your right and we get to see a tough quarterback this weekend in Green Bay, Schaub should take a lesson from Rodgers in a few bumps and bruises can't let a good QB down. Is Schaub the NFL's McGrady?

mexican_texan
12-04-2008, 09:00 AM
Your right and we get to see a tough quarterback this weekend in Green Bay, Schaub should take a lesson from Rodgers in a few bumps and bruises can't let a good QB down. Is Schaub the NFL's McGrady?
Torn muscles on different parts of the body don't make him injury prone. A line with inconsitent linemen make QBs injury prone.

GP
12-04-2008, 09:05 AM
Torn muscles on different parts of the body don't make him injury prone. A line with inconsitent linemen make QBs injury prone.

This argument doesn't hunt.

How many times has Wonder Boy Sage been found laying on the ground, sitting on the bench, expecting to be able to return soon?

(Sigh)

Some guys find ways to stay upright. That's all there is to it.

It's not magic. There's not a perfect oline in the game, and never will be. And even the "good" olines can have a bad game every now and then out-of-the-blue.

I'm satisfied with the pass blocking thus far. It's not stellar, but it's adequate. The short-yardage run blocking is atrocious, though.

Malloy
12-04-2008, 09:23 AM
Isn't that an indication of being soft?

I dont think so, at least I hope it is not so. Soft, in my opinion, means that someone avoid a certain situation for fear of something happening. Schaub, again to me, seems confused, something that SHOULD be able to be coached away.

I really hope I am right, otherwise we should start to look for the next QB. Starting him would give us an indication of whether or not he has progressed or not :)

Porky
12-04-2008, 09:27 AM
Put me in the start Schaub group. If he was ready to play last week in a backup role, has had a good week of practice and looks ready to go, then play him. I don't care if it's 70 or 15 degrees. If a QB can't prove he can play in different elements he needs to be jettisoned. These next 4 weeks will give us a chance to see what he is made of.

Imo, he gets one more full year to show us he can stay upright. If he misses more than a game or two next yr, then it might be time to break out the Chris Chandelier comparisons, and look for a replacement. But, I think the guy deserves at least one more chance to stay upright, and these next 4 weeks are an important guage.

Double Barrel
12-04-2008, 09:36 AM
We pay him, we should play him (if he's ready to start). The guy needs all the snaps he can get.

Texan_Bill
12-04-2008, 09:37 AM
Start Sage!!!!








:worm:

Thorn
12-04-2008, 09:45 AM
Gotta start him if for no other reason than to try and prove to the organization that he's worth keeping. The sooner we know one way or the other the better.

BigBull17
12-04-2008, 09:53 AM
I know what you're saying, but at this point, I want him to play. Yes, he could get hurt, but that's the point. Let's find out now if we have our future QB or just an oft injured backup. I want to know now if we can rely on him as our QB or do we need to take one in the Draft/FA (probably will anyway) that is tough, reliable, and good.

I like Schaub and think he can be a very good QB in this league. But, if he is going to be out half the season with injuries every year, we aren't going to get very far as a team. JMHO!

Also, when you have such little faith in Sage, for good reason, you have to use every game left to find out what you do next year. He needs all the adverse games, not just home games. He needs to play a game at less than 100%. He needs to play a team with a strong home field advantage.

Vinny
12-04-2008, 09:55 AM
If he is healthy enough to start you gotta start him. If he gets injured again its just more reason to look for a young guy to start grooming.

maddogmrb
12-04-2008, 10:02 AM
[QUOTE=headsplint;1067398] I know AJ does, they have a chemistry regardless of what's happened. When Matt is out there AJ gets more looks ....
QUOTE]

Just curious. Do the stats back this statement up or is it just your opinion?

If we would start Matt at home this week then he should start in GB. If he (or anyone) does not have that competitiveness, then we need to look for other players.

TimeKiller
12-04-2008, 10:23 AM
Start Sage!!!!

Geez Bill, why don't you tell us how you really feel? hahaha...:)

I say start Schaub because he's apparently healthy enough and he's the starting QB. I don't believe in 100% health by week 14 unless a player has been riding the pine-dragon.

To me, Sage's throws have been weak, off target a little too often which means he's losing confidence in himself. You could almost feel his hesitation on the bootlegs. Watching him at the game Monday night was very telling in comparison with Schaub. To me, Schaub's throws are generally more accurate with more zip when needed. Schaub also makes it past the go-to reciever into the 2nd, maybe even 3rd reads more often than Sage. Sage stared down recievers and totally missed wide open guys way too much.

infantrycak
12-04-2008, 10:23 AM
Your right and we get to see a tough quarterback this weekend in Green Bay, Schaub should take a lesson from Rodgers in a few bumps and bruises can't let a good QB down. Is Schaub the NFL's McGrady?

Aaron has made it through this season but he went down in his first NFL appearance and in another spot appearance before Favre left. Does that make him injury prone also?--I wouldn't say so.

This argument doesn't hunt.

How many times has Wonder Boy Sage been found laying on the ground, sitting on the bench, expecting to be able to return soon?

Pop quiz--how many times has a player who hist Sage been flagged, fined or an NFL rule changed because of the hits on him?

Texan_Bill
12-04-2008, 10:30 AM
Geez Bill, why don't you tell us how you really feel? hahaha...:)



Ha!! All joking aside, I'm with a everyone that says start Schaub if healthy. I was never on that Sage bandwagon that used to run amuck. Obviously there's more money tied up in Schaub, so start 'em, dangit. I also agree with Vinny, in that it's decision time about grooming a young guy to potentially take the helm...

beerlover
12-04-2008, 10:32 AM
I'll expect the Packers to load the box, fowl weather only helps their cause, losing to the Panthers last week @ home only adds sense of urgancy. less than ideal situation for Schaub to return but the coaching staff must think he has recover'ed enough not to jeopardize the rest of season or his career.

just another reason why we're not coaches. seems a bit risky to me, very aggressive play by Kubiak which will help define his tenure.

BigBull17
12-04-2008, 10:33 AM
Start Sage!!!!







:worm:


Thats what the Packers are saying. This staff has no faith in Sage. Why start him if Schaub is 80-90% healthy.

disaacks3
12-04-2008, 10:34 AM
If Schaub is ready - he has to play. I also think that the team wants him behind center. Sage has become entirely too hesitant along with inconsistent. Sage may not have the deer in the headlights look - but he plays like he does. No confidence and he doesn't have that bond with Dre that Schaub does. When Dre gets the ball more, we win - it is almost that simple. Someone has to make up for our lack of defense.

Schaub also needs to prove to himself and the coaching staff(and me) that he isn't made of glass - he can take a hit and not be out for the next month. If he is going to be our starting QB - he has to stay healthy period. No time like the present, better now than next year. The bolded needs to get answered sooner or later and there's no time like the present!

We pay him, we should play him (if he's ready to start). The guy needs all the snaps he can get. Yep, I definitely don't want his FIRST game back to be the one with Haynesworth staring at him.

If he is healthy enough to start you gotta start him. If he gets injured again its just more reason to look for a young guy to start grooming. Yep, especially with Sage looking 'hesitant' on his decisions now. This team needs something to build on to finish this season - a "W" AT Green Bay (or at least a very strong showing) would go a long way towards forwarding that mentality.

TheRealJoker
12-04-2008, 11:08 AM
This offseason is pivotal to Kubiak's tenure. If he doesn't get us to the playoffs next year odds are he's gonna get fired. Kubes knows this and is gonna do everything he can to increase his chances of getting us to the playoffs.

Schaub is a big part of this plan. Kubiak has to figure out if Schaub can be relied upon for a full season and if he can hold up against good defenses consistently.

These next 4 games are the biggest of Schaub's career and will decide whether we go forward with him next year as is or if we sign/draft some competition.

The biggest thing Schaub needs is game experience. That's the only way he's going to cure the turnover problem he has. He can watch film all he wants, he can listen to what Kubes tells him to his heart's content, but until he consistently protects the ball in live game situations he's never gonna fix his biggest problem.

Hooston Texan
12-04-2008, 11:18 AM
Another reason to play Schaub: we've got some tough pass defenses left on the schedule. All four rank in the top 9 in terms of their opponents' overall passer rating. Even the lousy Raiders feature perhaps the best cover corner in the entire league, so AJ is going to have some tough times getting open.

It certainly cannot be denied that some of Schaub's best games have come against bad teams. When he encountered elite defenses the first two games, he didn't look so hot. Now, part of those struggles could be chalked up to a still-developing OL and the general absence of a running threat prior to Slaton's emergence (and the fact that the Steelers and Titans have made most every QB look foolish this year), but we are expecting him to carry the offense in good times and bad.

He needs to show that he can beat up on more than just the bad-to-mediocre defenses in the league. There are some decent pelts for the taking these next four games; let's see if he can claim a few. Play him.

infantrycak
12-04-2008, 11:21 AM
The biggest thing Schaub needs is game experience. That's the only way he's going to cure the turnover problem he has. He can watch film all he wants, he can listen to what Kubes tells him to his heart's content, but until he consistently protects the ball in live game situations he's never gonna fix his biggest problem.

I think Schaub can improve on this some but I suspect he will always have a problem with this. Some QB's always believe they can make the throw no matter how tight--Romo, Favre, etc. (disclaimer--names used purely as examples not as QBs of equal quality). Sometimes they do and look like heroes and other times it looks stupid. He seems like a QB with that confidence and it is going to bite him as well as lead to big plays. The spot where I think he can make an improvement on turnovers is not underestimating defense players' athleticism--put another foot of arc on the ball to get it over the LB for instance.

I agree with all the statements above that (a) he gives us the best chance to win, (b) he needs to earn his paycheck and (c) get out there and get hit and get back up so folks know you can.

It certainly cannot be denied that some of Schaub's best games have come against bad teams.

Let's not let history forget AJ had a miserable game against the Titans dropping 4 passes that would have been for over 100 yards including 3 TD's.

tedr
12-04-2008, 11:32 AM
IMO, it all comes down to how we run the ball. If we can have success early in the game, this will give Schaub more time when he does pass. To me (I live in the Metroplex, so I don't get to see most of the games), it seems like we have been able to run the ball better lately. If that continues this week, Schaub should do all right. Also, if the defense can play close to what it's played like the last two weeks, that will take some pressure off of our offense.

I tend to fall into the camp of thinking Schaub has had some bad luck these last couple of years. The shots he's taken would have put a lot of QBs out. Mind you, I don't think you can classify him as a warrior, but I don't think his injury problems can be quickly dismissed as him having a glass jaw.

Seor Stan
12-04-2008, 11:43 AM
If you say Schaub-Sage ten times really fast while looking into a mirror with the lights out a shirtless Vince Young will show up in the reflection.

Hervoyel
12-04-2008, 12:05 PM
I'm all for him showing how much of a warrior he is if he thinks he's ready to go. If I was sold as Schaub being our long-term answer, then I might not be so heady on the idea of him playing if he's not 100%. But since the jury is still out, and he wants to show that he can go, why not.


Very true. He's picked up the fragile tag and he wants to get back out there and try to put it to rest. I say let the man play football. Besides I think that as much as Kubiak watches these guys he wouldn't let him back out there if he didn't think he was ready to go.

Maddict5
12-04-2008, 12:09 PM
I think Schaub can improve on this some but I suspect he will always have a problem with this.



i disagree.. before the london game last yr, we were subjected to the giants every week and eli was pretty bad.. alot worse than schaub has looked but hes turned the corner late last season and hasnt looked back since

exact same goes for the biggest douche in the league aka phillip rivers. he was awful last yr but turned it around in the playoffs

its like when mario turned the corner last season... it happens in a hurry. schaub hasnt done it yet but is getting pretty close imo

thunderkyss
12-04-2008, 12:19 PM
We've got RedZone issues... they've hurt our ability to win games. If Schaub is our QB, he needs to be in there, working with the team to solve the problem.

We need to get ready for next year, the run game/run blocking is starting to come together. The passing game(regardless of QB) is awesome. We need to work out our RedZone offense.

I still don't care, which guy starts.... I don't see one particularly better/worse than the other.

Speedy
12-04-2008, 12:23 PM
Your right and we get to see a tough quarterback this weekend in Green Bay, Schaub should take a lesson from Rodgers in a few bumps and bruises can't let a good QB down. Is Schaub the NFL's McGrady?

A TORN ligament is NOT a bump or bruise!! Geez, what the hell is the matter with some of you people? You act like he gets a paper cut and has to miss 4 games. It's a TORN LIGAMENT, from 2 cheap shots I might add.

Thorn
12-04-2008, 12:24 PM
If you say Schaub-Sage ten times really fast while looking into a mirror with the lights out a shirtless Vince Young will show up in the reflection.

:spit:

That's a horrible thought, but I do have a question. If the lights are out, how can you see a reflection in the mirror? And I don't even want to get into the fact we are talking about a bathroom with the lights out and Vince Young in the same sentance.

JayCee
12-04-2008, 01:27 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6146086.html

Texans excited to have QB back for final 4 games of the season

Just an hour after practice on Wednesday, it was clear that Texans quarterback Matt Schaub was back in his familiar position as the teams starter.

His teammates praised his speedy recovery last week when he rejoined practice for the first time since tearing the medial collateral ligament in his knee on Nov. 2. This week as he officially moved back into the starting role, the jokes began.

He looks like the same old Matt slow, right tackle Eric Winston said. So, theres nothing thats going to change about Matt. But, no, hes fine. He really looks good. Other than that brace hes wearing now, he looks the same running, the same speed. Hes throwing the ball well. Hes moving around, same command in the huddle. Hell be fine.

Last week Schaub took jabs at his own speed, admitting the large knee brace he will wear this month would be a hindrance if he was speedy or a scrambler.

But nothing could put a damper on Schaubs mood. He even seemed genuinely excited about playing in temperatures that could dip as low as 12 degrees at Lambeau Field on Sunday when the Texans play the Packers.

Schaub doesnt care where the team plays as long as he is back on the field with his teammates.

I never listened or heard any of those things about being out for the year, Schaub said. That was all other people talking about that. I knew that I could come back, and I just said, Im going to try to make it back for the last month, and Ive been able to do that, so now its just time to go play.

Schaub remains ranked 10th in the league with a quarterback rating of 91.0. Hes sixth in the league in passing (251.7 yards per game). In the month of October, he put together one of the best stretches of any quarterback in the league as he helped the Texans string together three-consecutive victories.

In his seven starts this year, he has passed for 10 touchdowns and rushed for two. He also has eight interceptions and three lost fumbles.

The main issue for Schaub the past two seasons has been simply staying on the field. This season, he hasnt started more than four consecutive games. The team is hoping he can pick up where he left off in October and string together four strong performances to finish out this season.

I think any time you play its important to your future, coach Gary Kubiak said. But hes a young quarterback with not a lot of starts under his belt. (He) has done some very good things but has gone through the injury bug, and you can learn to play through that. Its something that hes got to do and prove to everybody he can do and play good football along the way.

Schaub is 7-11 as a starter the past two years. This week he will try to earn his first win on the road since Sept. 16, 2006. He is 0-9 in road starts since then, and the Texans realize they have no easy task ahead.

I know everybody is excited for him that hes getting back because hes missed a lot of time in the year, receiver Andre Johnson said. When hes been healthy, hes played very well and this month is very important to him and our football team. So from that standpoint, I know everybody is upbeat about him coming back.

BigBull17
12-04-2008, 02:27 PM
:spit:

That's a horrible thought, but I do have a question. If the lights are out, how can you see a reflection in the mirror? And I don't even want to get into the fact we are talking about a bathroom with the lights out and Vince Young in the same sentance.

VY is so great, his reflection shows up in the dark. Duh...:gun:

disaacks3
12-04-2008, 05:03 PM
A TORN ligament is NOT a bump or bruise!! Geez, what the hell is the matter with some of you people? You act like he gets a paper cut and has to miss 4 games. It's a TORN LIGAMENT, from 2 cheap shots I might add. If that was the ONLY injury he'd suffered, you'd have a point here. I think what the rest of us are wondering (and that includes the Texans coaching staff) is can this guy take a hit without falling apart? Can he develop a better "pocket presence" to make some of those hits more indirect? Can he be the QB equivalent of a workhorse and deliver for a full season?

He wasn't free, he wasn't cheap and this team has done MUCH better with draft picks than it has in FA - the Texans need to know NOW if the phrase "oft-injured" is going to be his prefix for the rest of his career.

mexican_texan
12-04-2008, 05:38 PM
If that was the ONLY injury he'd suffered, you'd have a point here. I think what the rest of us are wondering (and that includes the Texans coaching staff) is can this guy take a hit without falling apart? Can he develop a better "pocket presence" to make some of those hits more indirect? Can he be the QB equivalent of a workhorse and deliver for a full season?

He wasn't free, he wasn't cheap and this team has done MUCH better with draft picks than it has in FA - the Texans need to know NOW if the phrase "oft-injured" is going to be his prefix for the rest of his career.
Could you please list the number of quarterbacks who can survive cheap shots to the knee? Call him soft if you want, but he played the rest of the half with a torn ligament.

Malloy
12-04-2008, 06:17 PM
Could you please list the number of quarterbacks who can survive cheap shots to the knee? Call him soft if you want, but he played the rest of the half with a torn ligament.

The Brady-wanker!!

Tearing or braking stuff is NOT soft :)

Polo
12-04-2008, 06:21 PM
If we could get Jeff Garcia, would you go after him ?

Malloy
12-04-2008, 06:31 PM
If we could get Jeff Garcia, would you go after him ?

Dont tempt me like that! :)

CloakNNNdagger
12-04-2008, 08:36 PM
Looking past what my personal feelings are about Schaub, I'll make these comments.:

Schaub had surgery on his medial collateral ligament. This surgery is only indicated for the worst type of tear........a grade III, which is not uncommonly associated with injury/weakening of adjacent structures (we are not given exact details). For many sports, some feel that return to play can be attained fairly safely at 4 weeks. In a sport such as football where there is potential for vicious contact, return to play is more typically closer to 8 weeks, or in some cases, even longer.

Independent of the argument that this was a legitimate reason for Schaub's absence from the field, and that he is not "injury prone," he can very well be entering yet another situation which he will have a legitimate reason to be absent from the field. I would be especially concerned about this decision supported by the Texans staff in that the temperatures at Green Bay on Sunday are projected to be somewhere between 10 and 15 degrees. With or without bracing, this will not be ideal conditions for recovering muscular support structures.........but would more likely be ideal conditions for reinjury.
My feeling is that if you really value "your quarterback," you don't cast his fate to the wind.:twocents:

Polo
12-04-2008, 08:39 PM
Dont tempt me like that! :)

I was only half serious

infantrycak
12-04-2008, 09:46 PM
Looking past what my personal feelings are about Schaub, I'll make these comments.:

Schaub had surgery on his medial collateral ligament. This surgery is only indicated for the worst type of tear........a grade III, which is not uncommonly associated with injury/weakening of adjacent structures (we are not given exact details). For many sports, some feel that return to play can be attained fairly safely at 4 weeks. In a sport such as football where there is potential for vicious contact, return to play is more typically closer to 8 weeks, or in some cases, even longer.

Independent of the argument that this was a legitimate reason for Schaub's absence from the field, and that he is not "injury prone," he can very well be entering yet another situation which he will have a legitimate reason to be absent from the field. I would be especially concerned about this decision supported by the Texans staff in that the temperatures at Green Bay on Sunday are projected to be somewhere between 10 and 15 degrees. With or without bracing, this will not be ideal conditions for recovering muscular support structures.........but would more likely be ideal conditions for reinjury.
My feeling is that if you really value "your quarterback," you don't cast his fate to the wind.:twocents:

And so, what is your conclusion? Is the injury fake or are the Texans being reckless? Or is there a door three?

CloakNNNdagger
12-04-2008, 10:30 PM
And so, what is your conclusion? Is the injury fake or are the Texans being reckless? Or is there a door three?

If the injury did not require arthroscopic repair, then the injury must be a much lesser injury closer to a grade I-II tear. Four weeks would be pushing it for a high risk contact sport like football. Six-eight weeks would still be a wiser period of recovery to minimize chances of reinjury. So an answer to your question, I'd lean towards the reckless. (I would hope that hiding behind the guise of a more severe injury to hide "brittleness" is not in the Texans' play book.)

Lucky
12-04-2008, 10:35 PM
...I'd lean towards the reckless.
Considering the recklessness Kubiak showed in keeping a clearly injured Schaub on the field during the game in Minnesota, at least the Texans would be consistent. At something. :texflag:

infantrycak
12-04-2008, 10:36 PM
If the injury did not require arthroscopic repair, then the injury must be a much lesser injury closer to a grade I-II tear. Four weeks would be pushing it for a high risk contact sport like football. Six-eight weeks would still be a wiser period of recovery to minimize chances of reinjury. So an answer to your question, I'd lean towards the reckless. (I would hope that hiding behind the guise of a more severe injury to hide "brittleness" is not in the Texans' play book.)

Really trying to understand from your expertise here. This didn't require surgery so four weeks is pushing it it sounds like. So it seems like the conclusion is Schaub isn't milking it and the Texans may be pushing it. Is that right? I don't see where the guise comes in here unless you are saying there never was a real injury.

CloakNNNdagger
12-04-2008, 10:44 PM
Really trying to understand from your expertise here. This didn't require surgery so four weeks is pushing it it sounds like. So it seems like the conclusion is Schaub isn't milking it and the Texans may be pushing it. Is that right? I don't see where the guise comes in here unless you are saying there never was a real injury.

That's correct. The only other scenario which I can come up with where they are "confidently" allowing him to return now is that the injury was of a significantly lesser nature than we have been made to believe. I hope that allows you into my thought process.

beerlover
12-04-2008, 11:02 PM
Considering the recklessness Kubiak showed in keeping a clearly injured Schaub on the field during the game in Minnesota, at least the Texans would be consistent. At something. :texflag:

tracking that myself, wondering whats the rush? live to fight another day, its not like the Texans are playoff bound. Schaubs mobility is a major concern on the frozen tundra, the Packers strength is LB with safety crashing underneath & crowding the box. The Packers can be beat with the deep throw but that takes too much time, which Matt will have to create on his own. are his knees 100%? I seriously doubt it :shades: & the Packers know it :voodoo:

The Pencil Neck
12-05-2008, 01:15 AM
That's correct. The only other scenario which I can come up with where they are "confidently" allowing him to return now is that the injury was of a significantly lesser nature than we have been made to believe. I hope that allows you into my thought process.


Personally, I just don't think we can trust any news coming out about injuries to our players.

And as long as that untrustworthy information is untrustworthy because they're obfuscating things to confuse our enemies, I'm fine with that untrustworthiness. OTOH, if they're just incompetent and incapable of accurately assessing the situations, THEN I have a problem.

And with their track record so far, I'm afraid the untrustworthiness is the latter case and not the former.

Malloy
12-05-2008, 06:45 AM
Until proven otherwise I expect our administration to act in a rational manner, that is, not to put Schaub on the field if he is not 100% ready to go. If this means that he's back on the field within 4 weeks of injury, I can conclude that the injury were not as severe as we were first lead to believe.

However, if Schaub enters the field and is clearly not 100%, I will lose my confidence in the administration(coaching, FO, whatever). I'm already so-so with the decision to leave Schaub on the field a few weeks back, when he was clearly hurt in a way that affected his play, and I hope that there is a real good explanation for that.

Thanks btw to CloakNNN for the ever-useful medical breakdown, nothing like facts to kill a good speculative discussion :)

TimeKiller
12-05-2008, 07:10 AM
Sounds to me like they just over estimated the tear. I guess we will know immediately, I mean if he's okay he probably won't be limping much. If he's not so hot then I'd imagine he'll be limping like he was in Minnesota. Schaub has never been one to hide his pain.

He was the backup for Monday night's game so I'd imagine they've been close to him returning for a while now.

disaacks3
12-05-2008, 02:01 PM
Personally, I just don't think we can trust any news coming out about injuries to our players.

And as long as that untrustworthy information is untrustworthy because they're obfuscating things to confuse our enemies, I'm fine with that untrustworthiness. OTOH, if they're just incompetent and incapable of accurately assessing the situations, THEN I have a problem.

And with their track record so far, I'm afraid the untrustworthiness is the latter case and not the former. After hearing Kubes' complete "Confidence" about Spencer @ the draft luncheon...I'm in-line with your thinking here.

Sounds to me like they just over estimated the tear. I guess we will know immediately, I mean if he's okay he probably won't be limping much. If he's not so hot then I'd imagine he'll be limping like he was in Minnesota. Schaub has never been one to hide his pain.

He was the backup for Monday night's game so I'd imagine they've been close to him returning for a while now. Only two possibilities really...he's ready to go, or he isn't. I'd rather not risk him if he isn't, but if HE says he's ready to go, then it's his own health he's risking.

CloakNNNdagger
12-06-2008, 09:40 PM
And that win came without starting quarterback Matt Schaub, who is likely to return Sunday after missing four games with a knee injury. Kubiak said the potentially cold and slippery conditions at Lambeau wouldn't affect his decision to let Schaub play.
"If he can play then he can play," Kubiak said. "That's not going to play into it. Weatherwise up there, you know it's going to be cold. That's just part of playing up there. But they do a great job with their field. So regardless of what the conditions were, if we think he can play, we'll go from there."
[LINK]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/wire/chi-ap-fbn-texans-packers,0,5483632.story

Freshly rehabbing knees don't necessarilly need to take a direct hit to be re-injured. They can be re-injured by a simple noncontact isolated slip and twist motion [keep in mind that braces don't preclude such injuries]. This decision for Schaub to play this early and under these circumstances/conditions will only reinforce my questionable impressions of Kubiak's ability to make wise decisions.

mexican_texan
12-06-2008, 11:40 PM
[LINK]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/wire/chi-ap-fbn-texans-packers,0,5483632.story

Freshly rehabbing knees don't necessarilly need to take a direct hit to be re-injured. They can be re-injured by a simple noncontact isolated slip and twist motion [keep in mind that braces don't preclude such injuries]. This decision for Schaub to play this early and under these circumstances/conditions will only reinforce my questionable impressions of Kubiak's ability to make wise decisions.
From PFT:

Texans coach Gary Kubiak said of the Packers having six interception returns for touchdowns, “Damn right that scares me. We have to protect the ball. They have great ball skills. They’re a man-coverage team. They lock you down.”

I think he doesn't want to start Sage more than he wants to start Schaub.

CloakNNNdagger
12-07-2008, 06:13 AM
From PFT:



I think he doesn't want to start Sage more than he wants to start Schaub.


I guess that Kubiak doesn't mind potentially making Schaub a "one hit wonder"........maybe his LAST hit.

ObsiWan
12-07-2008, 07:21 AM
The Packer defense is #27 against the run, allowing 141.7 yds/game. Only the Raiders, Broncos, Rams, Chefs, and Lions are worse. The Pack defense has given up 13 running plays over 20 yds and 4 rushes over 40 yds; again, near the bottom of the league.

We have Steve Slaton who has TEN rushes over 20 yds and 4 over 40 by himself. ...the same Steve Slaton who said "Coach, just gimme the damned ball"...

So unless we're way behind, if Schaub drops back more than 18-20 times in 20 degree (or below) weather I'll be amazed. And even then, it should be a play-action dropback.

My point is that Schaub's exposure to getting hit should be minimized.

I'm more worried about him surviving the Tennessee game.

Thorn
12-07-2008, 07:42 AM
I'm more worried about him surviving the Tennessee game.

Agreed, and I'm sure Painsworth is licking his chops just thinking about it.