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AndreJ
01-02-2005, 11:59 PM
Anyone know the specifics on his injury? If its serious, i think that would make the decision of resigning him alot easier. And we could get an early start seeing who would be back next year.

Hervoyel
01-03-2005, 12:02 AM
The only thing I keep hearing is "injured his leg" with an emphasis on it not being a knee injury. That's all I've heard so far.

jacquescas
01-03-2005, 12:06 AM
i am not a fan of resigning him unless its very very cheap.

Txnpride
01-03-2005, 12:14 AM
we should not resign our BEST D-lineman. Did you see the drop in pressure when Payne went out? Payne gets injured cause he plays hard.... Cant say that bout Walker or smith.well said We NEED Seth back

tex
01-03-2005, 07:26 AM
When Smith was signed they said he was better at stopping the run than rushing the passer.Walker I don't know what happen to him.

Grid
01-03-2005, 08:34 AM
Payne is a good lineman.. but unless he is cheap i dont know that we can afford him.. not with the Smith and Walker contracts.

AndreJ
01-03-2005, 02:51 PM
Payne is a good lineman.. but unless he is cheap i dont know that we can afford him.. not with the Smith and Walker contracts.

I think Walker is a has been and its time for him to hang it up. I think he had all of about .5 sacks this season and that really didn't help. It suprises me that hes the one week after week to complain to the press, but he doesn't make any plays. I would love to trade him and get him out of here, he doesn't seem happy anyway. He's just looking for a SB.

SESupergenius
01-03-2005, 02:55 PM
Payne doesn't do us any good when he's on the sideline nursing an injury. He may be be our best lineman when he plays but you would be way overpaying with his consistant lack of playing time. We will draft a DL and MLB this year.

Mistril48
01-03-2005, 03:03 PM
Payne is a good lineman.. but unless he is cheap i dont know that we can afford him.. not with the Smith and Walker contracts.
Define cheap? I believe in 2003 he was $4 mill Cap compared to Walkers $6 mill Cap. I would say he was getting Coleman money while Walker was getting Glenn money. I have no difficulty with giving a healthy Payne the kind of money you give Coleman, McKinney, Smith, Wade, Weigert, etc ...

I think he's proven that his surgically repaired knee can hold up. It just did for the whole season. Assuming his injury on Sunday is a routine injury to his other leg, the same kind of injury that any D-linemen could have, then I have no difficulty signing him for a reasonable amount.

There is no guarantee that recently drafted D-linemen will play great or that they won't get injured.

texansfan88
01-03-2005, 05:33 PM
Pallilo on ESPN 790 said that Payne has torn some hamstring muscles

Marcus
01-03-2005, 06:32 PM
Capers said on his radio show that Payne tore his hamstring, and will probably need surgery.

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 06:35 PM
Capers said on his radio show that Payne tore his hamstring, and will probably need surgery.

Yikes... I feel for the guy. I guess the good news is that we can get him on the cheap next year.

AndreJ
01-03-2005, 06:36 PM
Capers said on his radio show that Payne tore his hamstring, and will probably need surgery.

Yeah i think thats right but its not on the same leg that he injured the year before. I'm real curious to see whether they will keep him or not. Im guessing after the SB, but does anyone know when teams start announcing the trades and FA acquisitions.

TEXANS84
01-03-2005, 06:36 PM
Yikes... I feel for the guy. I guess the good news is that we can get him on the cheap next year.

If there is a next year...the damage is apparently on the same leg as last year's ACL.
Talk about a bad break...and more rehab.

TexansFan#80
01-03-2005, 06:38 PM
I'm real curious to see whether they will keep him or not. Im guessing after the SB, but does anyone know when teams start announcing the trades and FA acquisitions.

I think we need to let him go. He is injury prone. The only way we keep him is if he's not a big cost for us. I'm not exactly sure on the dates, but know it's after the SB.

jacquescas
01-03-2005, 06:39 PM
I think we should take the money we were going to invest in him, and give it to someone who is a little bit better of a 2 gap defender, even a stopgap older player who can hold the fort until a draft pick develops (Halatoi Nagata)

thegr8fan
01-03-2005, 07:37 PM
I think we should take the money we were going to invest in him, and give it to someone who is a little bit better of a 2 gap defender, even a stopgap older player who can hold the fort until a draft pick develops (Halatoi Nagata) care to name someone who is better?? :hmmm:

Payne IS the Defense. If he is out then there is a noticable drop in the entire defense. When he is in he is always around the ball and making a play. Payne commands the double team that a 3-4 defense scheme must have at Nose Tackle.

Anyone that thinks that Payne is 'plug and play' replaceable simply hasn't been paying attention to the Defensive line play.

I don't know if the injury is the end of his career or not, but I know if we don't find a NT at LEAST as good as he is we are going to be in ALOT of trouble defensively next year.

Tailgate
01-03-2005, 08:20 PM
care to name someone who is better?? :hmmm:

Payne IS the Defense. If he is out then there is a noticable drop in the entire defense. When he is in he is always around the ball and making a play. Payne commands the double team that a 3-4 defense scheme must have at Nose Tackle.

Anyone that thinks that Payne is 'plug and play' replaceable simply hasn't been paying attention to the Defensive line play.

I don't know if the injury is the end of his career or not, but I know if we don't find a NT at LEAST as good as he is we are going to be in ALOT of trouble defensively next year.


Agreed. The Texans are simply not the same team without him full strength. BUT... we can't afford to pay him just to wait around for him to get back to 100% (I believe he still wasnt there yet) and for who knows how long.

DR#1
01-03-2005, 09:05 PM
i don't believe we should sign him back, he hasn't really shown me much, but INJURIES, if you define his career here in houston you can't say by his pass rush or by his sacks but by what injuries and how long he's been out, IMO he's not worth more then 3 million a year

nunusguy
01-03-2005, 09:58 PM
Between Seth Payne and Bennie Joppru, I don't know what to say other than
the old bromide about life being unfair. You know if Seth would have had the "good fortune" to catch a flu bug this past week and not play Sunday,
he'd have gone into the offseason, signed a new contract as a FA with us or some other org, and come back better than ever next year after a full off season of conditioning.

Texan Gal 312
01-03-2005, 10:13 PM
i don't believe we should sign him back, he hasn't really shown me much, but INJURIES, if you define his career here in houston you can't say by his pass rush or by his sacks but by what injuries and how long he's been out, IMO he's not worth more then 3 million a year

In the 3-4 it is the lineman's job to tie up the offensive line and allow the linebackers to make the play's. Linemen in the 3-4 are not going to have big stats.

edo783
01-04-2005, 12:26 AM
Tough break for Seth. Good guy and a very good player. However, given last years injury and now more surgury to repair a hamstring, that is going to cost him BIG time. I suspect we will make him an offer, but it will be at a rate we could afford for a backup level player (1 mill.??). IMO, we just can't commit large dollars at this point on him. I think we bought a "pig in a poke" with Walker and we need to avoid doing it again. The problem is, is there a player in the draft that we could select and have a reasonable expectation they would be successfull next year. Probably not, but it is easier for d-line talent, and that means we need to look at FA. IMO, we will need to be MUCH more active in FA that Charley indicated with his "A few cheap guys" comment. If we don't, we can't improve the o-line or d-line now with Seths problem, fast enough to meet next years schedule. We still will need to draft the talent to be ready in 1-2 years to start. Frankly, I think we are in a bit of a hard spot to get it all done and to still be solid and competative next year.

Grid
01-04-2005, 12:35 AM
I think Roderique Wright, Marcus Spears, Hlatoi Ngata(sp?), Derrick Johnson, and Ahmad Brooks.. are 4 players that we could be looking at in the first round, who you could reasonably expect to come in and make a difference their first year.

jacquescas
01-04-2005, 08:11 AM
Payne as good as he has done, is not worth resigning. Unless he takes a 1 year deal at the minimum or very close to it, with him having a second injury to his left leg, and having surgery, him being 30 years old, and the fact that he might be a little undersized to play the NT in the 3-4 all contribute to the fact that he continues to get injured.

I'd like to see us take Haloti Ngata from Oregon. 6'5 338lbs 4.85 40... 485 bench... 585 squat...

The perfect nose tackle, would consume double team even if he were thrown to the ground.

Right now is projected as a second round pick, but i think he will steadily creep his way up in the draft, especially after his interviews and work outs. Is reportedly a very intelligent man. If we have to take him in the first round cause he climbs that high on the boards, then so be it. If he have to trade down to the later first round for him, thats fine.

edo783
01-04-2005, 01:30 PM
I tend to agree that we need to be carefull about signing Seth. At this point I would only consider him in a backup role at low dollars, probably about a Mill. I doubt he would take it though, but who knows, no one else may offer better.

Errant Hothy
01-04-2005, 02:44 PM
I feel bad for Payne, his first year here he was all we could have asked for and then some; but it's probally time to consider cutting him lose. It's always sad when a players career is shortened due to injuries.

Sign him only for low dollars with incentives.

Grid
01-04-2005, 02:57 PM
already said this in a number of posts.. but if Ngata's knee checks out fine.. I think he is the best 3-4 DT in the draft. if we can get him, he would be a great pickup.

texan279
01-04-2005, 04:21 PM
I agree with all of you guys. IMO we should concentrate on the O line and D line in the draft and free agency. Our D line is getting old except for Smith and our O line needs help bad.

SESupergenius
01-04-2005, 05:51 PM
I would love to see Payne back if we could sign him for about 3.0 million a year. A 3 year $8.75 million contract with playing incentives would be good in my book. Thing is you have to look at a couple of NT that are avail in free agency. Pat Williams of the Bills and Chris Hovan of the Vikings. Pat Williams would be an excellen FA acquisitiion for us and we could redsign Payne at a reduced rate and hand him is walking papers. We could then draft a decent NT to groom. Chris Hovan I know has lost his luster in Minneasota but somehow I feel he would make an excellent NT. The guy just has a high motor. Fangio and company could work on his technique and we could still draft a decent NT if he doesn't pan out. Deloach could still be factor in all this, depends on what he is asking.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-04-2005, 05:53 PM
Hovan is overrated and would be a terrible NT.

SESupergenius
01-04-2005, 06:03 PM
Overated maybe, but he may have lost his focus. Maybe a new place will give him that. You also have to look at how much he is worth and what he is asking. A lot of people on these boards said Grady Jackson, Sam Adams, and Ted Washington were not worth it to us, but they are still put it to poeple.

phan1
01-04-2005, 06:04 PM
I think we could have him for 1 more year, as I really don't know if we could get someone better than him. Rookie NT in our 3-4 D doesn't sound really good...

Blake
01-04-2005, 06:06 PM
I dont see Payne coming back. I think the cards just fell wrong for him. Last game as a signed player, and he tears something. Talk about tough luck.

Look for a FA NT, or a hight draft pick NT. Payne might be back if he takes a huge cut, and we can be sure he will be able to play ball next year.

SESupergenius
01-04-2005, 06:09 PM
Rookie NT in our 3-4 D doesn't sound really good... It's not as bad as you would think. Casy Hampton stood behind for a bit but eventually learned the system and played his way into the starting spot for the Steelers. Same thing should be done here if we draft a rookie NT

aj.
01-04-2005, 06:24 PM
Hovan will probably end up with Dennis Green in AZ. He's more of a one-gap guy anyway.

SESupergenius
01-04-2005, 06:29 PM
So was Seth Payne before he was moved to NT. Hovan is more of a 2-gap guy in that he likes to bull people over with his strength ranther than using his hands to finesse his way around guys.

TexansTrueFan
01-04-2005, 06:51 PM
yes we need to draft a NT, and i know some dont agree with that, but look at D.Rob and Babin this year, some rooks pick up things faster than others, so we need to get a young guy, that will help us for years !

cj5776
01-04-2005, 06:51 PM
I honestly don't see finding an upgrade over Payne as a prority I think if we get some speed on the outside that will help everything. How about USC Coady with the #1 pick or trading down to pick him up later

Number19
01-04-2005, 07:18 PM
already said this in a number of posts.. but if Ngata's knee checks out fine.. I think he is the best 3-4 DT in the draft. if we can get him, he would be a great pickup.
The knee shouldn't be an issue. No problems this past saeson and he's quoted as saying the repaired knee is stronger than the other.

Being doubled and tripled teamed all season, he ended up with 46 tackles, 8.5 tackles-for-loss, 3.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles & 2 blocked kicks.

If he comes out, I don't see him slipping to the second round.

infantrycak
01-04-2005, 11:36 PM
Chris Hovan I know has lost his luster in Minneasota but somehow I feel he would make an excellent NT. The guy just has a high motor.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a major knock on Hovan that he can be high motor on pass rushing but doesn't have discipline for run stopping? Doesn't sound like a NT in that regard.

TexanBacker93
01-05-2005, 12:35 AM
I think 13 will be too high to take Ngata. He's not going to move that up the draft board. I won't be surprised if they make a trade similar to last year's if they think they can get 2 starting 1st day players. They have an extra 3rd to play with. Thank you, Dallas.

aj.
01-05-2005, 07:18 AM
Recent Hovan stuff. (http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/football/10480017.htm)

If you like to buy low - that's certainly where he's at.

nunusguy
01-05-2005, 08:03 AM
"Of course the injury is a concern when heading into free agency. ... It's hard not to think about it, but I've always tried to make it a point to play primarily for the love of the game and look at the money as an added benefit. I just want to get the surgery done and get on with the rehab process."

The above comment from Payne was taken out of an article in todays Chron.
"play primarily for the love of the game" - coming from anybody but Payne I'd
say that was BS, but not from him. I tend to think Payne with only one good leg is better than Walker, but we've got a substantial sunk cost with the investment/new contract with Walker, so it is gonna be tough to hold on to Seth if he can get anykind of a deal with another team. I wish him the best.

Texan Gal 312
01-05-2005, 09:11 AM
"Of course the injury is a concern when heading into free agency. ... It's hard not to think about it, but I've always tried to make it a point to play primarily for the love of the game and look at the money as an added benefit. I just want to get the surgery done and get on with the rehab process."

The above comment from Payne was taken out of an article in todays Chron.
"play primarily for the love of the game" - coming from anybody but Payne I'd
say that was BS, but not from him. I tend to think Payne with only one good leg is better than Walker, but we've got a substantial sunk cost with the investment/new contract with Walker, so it is gonna be tough to hold on to Seth if he can get anykind of a deal with another team. I wish him the best.

In that same article, Seth indicated he really wanted to stay here.

infantrycak
01-05-2005, 12:01 PM
Better plan on Payne being back next year, which IMO is a good thing:

Unfortunately for Payne, he tore two hamstring tendons attached to his pelvis and will need surgery. Gary Walker suffered the same injury before the 2002 season and capped the year with a trip to the Pro Bowl. Payne expects to make a full recovery and be 100 percent healthy in six months, but he realizes the timing of the injury is anything but advantageous.

"I'm not too concerned with playing next year," Payne said. "I played 16 games this season, and I'll play 16 games next year. This team is heading in the right direction. This is the kind of place I'd like to be. This is the kind of team that has the potential to win the Super Bowl in a couple of years.

Link (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2978751)

wags
01-05-2005, 12:59 PM
Better plan on Payne being back next year, which IMO is a good thing:

I would like to have him back. Looks like he'll be in the same situation, campwise, as last year though.

SESupergenius
01-05-2005, 06:45 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a major knock on Hovan that he can be high motor on pass rushing but doesn't have discipline for run stopping? Doesn't sound like a NT in that regard.Look he is just a name that is available and there aren't many out there that play NT. Hovan has at least done that. Pat Williams is still a good look if Payne iis not the answer. The delima is should we re-sign Payne and Deloach? Should we go after a FA like Williams and sign Deloach? Should we sign Payne and a FA?

Here is the thing. Hovan would come cheap. We could sign him and re-sign Payne with incentive clause if he no so interested in the money like he says. Deloach would then either take a fair contract from us or try FA. If we go after a guy like Williams, who will likely want a high price tag, then we are strapped in re-signing other quality FA.

If we resign Payne and Deloach and Payne injuries are not healed, we are in a world of trouble. Deloach is the worst lineman we have.

Lucky
01-05-2005, 06:53 PM
Here is the thing. Hovan would come cheap.
Another question would be, why would Hovan want to learn the NT position? It's a tough position and he'd likely go to a team that plays the 43 defense he's used to. Like Arizona with the guy who drafted him, Denny Green. The Texans would have to overpay to get Hovan here as a NT.

SESupergenius
01-05-2005, 07:01 PM
Hovan has played NT, mostly on passing downs. It's not like DL linemen can't learn the 3-4, look at Walker and Robaire, both were 4-3 guys coming in. That argument doesn't hold water, DL are mostly 4-3 linemen when they learn the 3-4. If Denny Green would want him then I would think he is still a good player, unless of course you think that Denny Green doesn't know what he is talking about, but I'll take Dennys knowledge of yours. I wouldn't want Hovan if he is asking for money money than Payne is, it's that simple.

NoBullTexan
01-05-2005, 07:09 PM
Well, my heartfelt hope is that we resign Seth Payne, probably for the vet min, with incentives, and then go after Halote N'gata very hard in the draft. Not #1, though, but at #2, which I still expect him to be there.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-05-2005, 07:12 PM
Hovan is too small to play NT and he can't plug up the middle. Teams will run right though us.

SESupergenius
01-05-2005, 07:17 PM
I would like that plan as well, but ten teams, or nearly one third of the league, now use the 3-4 in some form

Pittsburgh
Atlanta
New England
Oakland
San Diego
Houston
Baltimore
Dallas
San Francisco
the New York Jets
New Orleans

It would be very hard for us to get him (Ngata) considering he may be too high at our #13 pick and may be gone by our 2nd round #14 pick.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-05-2005, 07:21 PM
I would like that plan as well, but ten teams, or nearly one third of the league, now use the 3-4 in some form

Pittsburgh
Atlanta
New England
Oakland
San Diego
Houston
Baltimore
Dallas
San Francisco
the New York Jets
New Orleans

It would be very hard for us to get him (Ngata) considering he may be too high at our #13 pick and may be gone by our 2nd round #14 pick.



Atlanta, Dallas, San Fran, NY Jets, and New Orleans don't use the 3-4

SESupergenius
01-05-2005, 07:22 PM
Hovan is listed at about 298 right now. He was up to 308 before losing his starting spot, reportedly due to his inability to sleep because of the demotion. But he has done things to get himself back on track. He's no savior by any means, but well worth a look at considering he may be on the low end of what we need.

SESupergenius
01-05-2005, 07:58 PM
Atlanta, Dallas, San Fran, NY Jets, and New Orleans don't use the 3-4Try again.
Look here for an clue (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04256/377677.stm) They use, not exclusive but still use it.

Do you want to argue just to argue?

Grid
01-05-2005, 08:02 PM
trading down is a possibility for Ngata. But he is being listed as a mid second round pick by most.. so unless his stock rises, or alot of teams decide they want a DT.. its possible he could be there at our #2

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-05-2005, 08:09 PM
Try again.
Look here for an clue (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04256/377677.stm) They use, not exclusive but still use it.

Do you want to argue just to argue?



Haloti will slip to the second round because he is still recovering from a major knee injury.

SESupergenius
01-05-2005, 08:09 PM
We'll have to see how is combine is. From what I've been seeing he is hot on the radar, not just for 3-4 teams, but 4-3 as well. I think his stock might rise a bit, could be a 1st rounder.

SESupergenius
01-05-2005, 08:33 PM
Haloti will slip to the second round because he is still recovering from a major knee injury.
Have you any clue at all????? Where do you get your information from? Come one now, he played the whole year with the Ducks. He finished the season with 46 tackles, 8.5 of those for a loss and he had 3.5 sacks. Have you even seen him play?

The biggest question is whether or not he will even be interested in playing in the NFL yet. He still thinks he has a ways to go before he is on the NFL level and may stay at Oregon to pursue his degree.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-05-2005, 08:44 PM
there are still injury concerns.

And who are you to question if someone else has a clue? You think Chris Hovan would make a great NT. lmao

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-05-2005, 08:48 PM
With Hovan, you are paying for a name and not a player. He is one of the most overrated players in the NFL. The last thing this team needs is another overpaid defensive lineman.

SESupergenius
01-05-2005, 08:54 PM
And who are you to question if someone else has a clue? You think Chris Hovan would make a great NT. lmao
Great???? Who said he'd be a Great NT? Try again. I said if he was cheap he we should look at him. LMAO. So to answer you question, he could be a good addition if he has his head back in the game and comes a rather cheap price. Simple really.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-05-2005, 09:02 PM
Just the idea of Hovan playing NT for us is laughable.

SESupergenius
01-05-2005, 10:26 PM
So would Jerry Deloach and an a Seth Payne that couldn't recover from his injuries. Way to go smart a**

BornOrange
01-05-2005, 10:44 PM
Seth Payne has recovered from his knee injury. If anything, his knee will be even better next year since most players take two years to completely heal from an ACL.

As was mentioned earlier, his current injury is the same one that Gary Walker had before his Pro Bowl season in the Texans first year. Walker was able to recover from that injury well enough to have a great year no one in their right mind should doubt Payne's commitment to rehab.

Those who say that Payne has been injured his entire stint with the Texans are full of garbage. Payne was healthy his first year with the Texans. He had a major knee injury early in his second year. His third year he recovered as well as can be expected and by the end of the season he was back to being a very effective nose tackle. Seth Payne is not a major risk.

I would not hesitate to re-sign Payne. I would also draft Payne's eventual replacement using one of the four first day picks the Texans have. During the 2005 season the rookie would rotate with Payne to insure that we always have a fresh NT in the game while getting some on-the-job-training. AFter a year or two of rotating, the new NT should be ready to take over.

SESupergenius
01-05-2005, 10:56 PM
I'll take that gameplan. Do you let Deloach go then? What if Payne doesn't recover?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-05-2005, 11:10 PM
So would Jerry Deloach and an a Seth Payne that couldn't recover from his injuries. Way to go smart a**



I never said I wanted Jerry Deloach or Seth Payne to start at NT for us next season. I have been wanting to find a replacement for Payne since last years' draft. I was hoping Gabe Watson would enter the draft this year, but since he is not, Ngata is the guy I hope the Texans target with their second round pick. By the way, no need to remind me that I'm a smart ***. I've known that for awhile. :loser

:bguitar:

SESupergenius
01-05-2005, 11:33 PM
So you would start a rookie over a healthy Payne? Classic.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-05-2005, 11:52 PM
Yes, I would. Payne is average at this point in his career IMO.

BornOrange
01-06-2005, 12:07 AM
I'll take that gameplan. Do you let Deloach go then? What if Payne doesn't recover?
Actually, I would probably keep Deloach as a versatile backup. Cory Sears and Junior Ioane are both (as well as Deloach) free agents, so I would make a decision between the two of them. Ioane is younger (27 versus 31) so he would be more likely to return, although drafting a second defensive lineman or getting another veteran backup through free agency isn't out of the question.

aj.
01-06-2005, 07:17 AM
I would not hesitate to re-sign Payne If the surgery goes well, the Texans won't hesitate to sign Payne either. Payne's injury may actually be a 'blessing' in disguise (if he fully recovers of course). It may scare other teams away and keep his price down a bit.

SESupergenius
01-06-2005, 12:15 PM
Oh they will be very scared to touch that one. But don't count your blessings so soon, he still has to recover from this so there is no guarantees. It would be very much in the favor of the Texans if he recovers well and is not sought out by other teams. I had a feeling he would have signed with us regardless before the injury no matter how much more another team offered. We still need a contigency plan.

aj.
01-06-2005, 12:35 PM
A Viking season ticket holder's take on Hovan:

"Hovan is an unrestricted free agent... and I would say it is about 95% certain he will not resign with the Vikings (he has already put his home up for sale). Over the past couple years he has struggled considerably, to the point of being almost non-existent. His excuse for that was he was constantly doubled teamed - well game tapes have disproven this to a large degree. If I understand correctly, a nose in the 3-4 typically the a big stout run stuffing guy?? That is not Hovan. He is probably best suited for the 4-3. Coming out of college he was considered a poor-man's Johnny Randle. If only he could have lived up to that. It's a cliche, but he is one of those who needs a change of scenery, and he may become servicable once again."

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-06-2005, 02:59 PM
A Viking season ticket holder's take on Hovan:

"Hovan is an unrestricted free agent... and I would say it is about 95% certain he will not resign with the Vikings (he has already put his home up for sale). Over the past couple years he has struggled considerably, to the point of being almost non-existent. His excuse for that was he was constantly doubled teamed - well game tapes have disproven this to a large degree. If I understand correctly, a nose in the 3-4 typically the a big stout run stuffing guy?? That is not Hovan. He is probably best suited for the 4-3. Coming out of college he was considered a poor-man's Johnny Randle. If only he could have lived up to that. It's a cliche, but he is one of those who needs a change of scenery, and he may become servicable once again."




Thank you. This is why I would never want to see Hovan playing NT for us. It would be a waste of cap space.

SESupergenius
01-06-2005, 05:27 PM
A Viking season ticket holder's take on Hovan:

" It's a cliche, but he is one of those who needs a change of scenery, and he may become servicable once again."That's all I'm saying, he could be servicable again. It's just not going to happen in Minnesota. Anyone can go to a website and look for fodder to support their argument.

Here is quote from the Vikings message boards

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:19 pm Post subject: A Positive... Reply with quote
When Hovan was in the game- he looked pretty good...


I saw a few QB's hurries and tackles.
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Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 883
Location: Winona, MN

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:40 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
He definitely looked better than he did before he was benched. Unfortunately, I don't think there is time enough in the season for him to make enough impact to justify keeping him. Hope I am wrong, though!

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If he comes cheap enough I would take a stab at him. I'd give him a chance considering the lot of FA DT's available that can play the NT and lack of NT depth in the rookie pool. If N'gata doesn't declare then that lessens it even more. Pat Williams is our best prospect to fill the NT but he will undoubtedly be too hight a price. So what are we left with?

Lets take a good look at him vs. Packers if he comes in.

infantrycak
01-06-2005, 05:48 PM
How about this for a spin on what Ses is saying: IF Hovan's stock has dropped to rock bottom and he can be signed very cheaply then he certainly would be as good as Ioane/Sears as backups and has an upside neither has ever displayed. Heck put him in on obvious passing downs at DE. Odds are at least 50/50 a change of scenery will help him.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-06-2005, 05:56 PM
What makes you think he will come cheap? He has always been one of the better known DTs even if he is overrated. There will be a team out there willing to overpay for him just because of the hype he brings.

SESupergenius
01-06-2005, 05:56 PM
Now you have to admit he is probably better than Sears and Ioane. The Vikings used a 3-4 scheme a few times this year here a quote of a fan from one of the message boards. In this instance he was used as and end in the 3-4, so it's not like he's unfamiliar with the scheme:

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:25 pm Post subject: Hovan Encouraging Reply with quote
You just knew that after today's game I would have to post about Chris Hovan. He played a very good game today. Was it just me or was he rotating all over the line? Were the coaches looking for positive matchups for him to give him a better chance to make plays?

In any case, I don't think he has turned the corner or anything, but you have to admit he showed some of the reasons the Vikings picked him in the first place today. If he keeps making positive strides, we will hopefully still have him as a solid member of the DL next season.

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BigMoInKS
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Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 754
Location: Wichita, KS

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:33 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it was brillant the way Cedric used Chris as an outside end in their 3-4 package today, which they ran more than in the past 5 games.

Great job and hustle from the Bulldog today! Keep it up! Wink
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STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-06-2005, 06:09 PM
I would rather the Texans sign Marques Douglas from the Ravens to play RDE and move Robaire Smith to NT.

aj.
01-06-2005, 06:37 PM
Anyone can go to a website and look for fodder to support their argument. And you proved just that.

But not everyone has a family member who lives in Minneapolis that has seen every game Hovan has played. That's the season ticket holder who sent me the information I posted. He is a trusted source to me as opposed to random message board ramblings.

I'm of the opinion that Hovan would be a bit out of his element at NT for the Texans.

I'm hoping Payne comes back healthy and either Sears or DeLoach and Ioane is re-signed for a year as depth. I could see them drafting two DLs to groom. They already have beaucoup $$$ tied up in the DL and they probably aren't going to spend a whole lot on a FA to fill in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesupergenius

Great???? Who said he'd be a Great NT? Try again. I said if he was cheap he we should look at him. LMAO.Actually what you said is that you felt he (Hovan) would be an "excellent" NT.

texan279
01-06-2005, 06:41 PM
I think someone mentioned this already but how about Pat Williams from the Bills? I just read an article that said the Bills might have trouble signing their free agents.

LINK (http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050106/SPORTS03/501060347/1007/SPORTS)


(January 6, 2005) ORCHARD PARK The abrupt ending to the Buffalo Bills season Sunday with a 29-24 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers was especially difficult to take for Pat Williams and Jonas Jennings.

Not only was it the final game of Buffalo's best season in five years, it may have been their final games as Bills.

Williams and Jennings are unrestricted free agents, the only starters on the Bills' relatively short list of players eligible to switch teams starting March 2.

"It feels hard now. I didn't know if it was going to be my last game here," Williams said. "I hope it wasn't."

If it was, Williams certainly went out in style. The eight-year veteran, who joined the Bills as a rookie free agent in 1997 under Marv Levy and improved every season since, made 12 tackles and a sack against the Steelers. Four of his tackles were behind the line of scrimmage, good for minus-17 yards.

For Williams, 32, it amounted to an audition for his old employer and anybody else who may be interested in a premier run stuffer (474 career tackles) who also can get after the quarterback (13 sacks).

SESupergenius
01-06-2005, 07:00 PM
And you proved just that.
Yes I did, do you want me go out and find two season ticket holders where one thinks Carr is great and one that thinks Carr is bad? My point is I can find two sides to the same story.

He is a trusted source to me as opposed to random message board ramblings.Gee, you mean like the stuff you doing right now? :listening Yours doesn't make it anymore 'valid" at this point. You are on a message board just as I am. Pompus.


Actually what you said is that you felt he (Hovan) would be an "excellent" NT.He would be an excellent pick if he came cheap. Nice try, but at least try and get the whole picture of what I am talking about. IF HE CAME CHEAP. There now maybe you can handle that. He would be better than any backup we have.

aj.
01-06-2005, 07:08 PM
What's too bad is that you bring good stuff to the table from time to time but often ruin it with your childish rants and name calling as the debate evolves in ways that you don't agree. Carry on.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-06-2005, 07:09 PM
The only problem is that HE WON'T COME CHEAP. :monkey:

SESupergenius
01-06-2005, 09:36 PM
What's too bad is that you bring good stuff to the table from time to time but often ruin it with your childish rants and name calling as the debate evolves in ways that you don't agree. Carry on.Like I really care. You bring some childish Pompous jabs about how you have the "inside" track on viewpoints. Just like we are supposed to drop down and kiss your feet because you have a so called 'relative' who attends Vikings games. We are supposed to take that as Gospel. That just reminds of the kid with basketball, its his ball and his rules and nobody is supposed to say anything. So really you are as guilty as you accuse me. Your not that squeaky clean.

Now on to the topic and enough of this.

I'm afraid Mr. Williams will be a bit expensive. If Buffalo won't be able resign him I don't we could either. But then again we threw out big money to Robaire and Walker.

And Steel Blue, how much do you think Hovan will be going for?

aj.
01-06-2005, 09:41 PM
Actually it's a nephew and he's been a Vikes season ticket holder for about 6 years. He's a pretty smart football head and I respect his opinions and I just thought I'd share. Anger management or decaf might be an option. Insult away if you must. It humors me but it takes away from the subject at hand.

Why is anyone talking about Pat Williams? Like we need another old DL.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-06-2005, 10:09 PM
And Steel Blue, how much do you think Hovan will be going for?



Somewhere around the amount Robaire Smith, Cornelius Griffin and Rod Coleman each went for. Possibly more than that.

SESupergenius
01-06-2005, 10:23 PM
ok well thanks for info on your nephew, I really cherish that knowledge. Your being a bit pretentious especially when you dart of that I need anger management or decaf then hypocritically infer that you are above it all in your very next statement of "Insult away if you must." ZZZZZZ

Robaire Smith is 27, I don't consider that old, he was 26 when we acquired him. The youthness montra is a little overrated. Williams is 32. I've seen DT's well over that that still bring fairly well. Pat Williams had decent year last year and is big enough to play a NT in the 3-4, I see nothing wrong with signing him other than a hefty price tag considering out options when Payne would be a big "if"

SESupergenius
01-06-2005, 10:24 PM
Somewhere around the amount Robaire Smith, Cornelius Griffin and Rod Coleman each went for. Possibly more than that.
If Hovan is not good then why do you think he would be getting Robaire, Griffin or Coleman type money? :hmmm:

chuckm
01-06-2005, 10:30 PM
Hovan and the Raiders seem like a good match ..... we (Texans) don't need the drama ........

SESupergenius
01-06-2005, 10:38 PM
Maybe that is what we are lacking, a little fire.

chuckm
01-06-2005, 10:40 PM
then we should go after Warren Sapp ..... not

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-06-2005, 10:40 PM
Because there are always teams willing to overpay players with marginal talent. Especially for supposed "big name" players who are living off past reputation. It also helps that this year's free agent pool of DTs is not very good.

SESupergenius
01-07-2005, 03:10 AM
Hovan signed a 5 year $5 million contract with a $3 million signing bonus. Smith signed a contract for 6 years worth $26.3 million with a $8.35 million signing bonus. Thats roughly $5,775,000 a year. Walker signed a $36 million including an upfront sum of $11 million. Roughly $7,833,333 a year

I doubt very seriously Hovan will command that kind of money. Kendrick Clancy of the Steelers tested the FA market last year and got a 1 year deal for $605,000. Brandon Noble got a four-year, $7 million contract from the Redskins last year as well. The closest comparision in my opinion to the contract Hovan would get this year is that of the Brian Youngs contract of last year where he went from St Louis to the Saints for 4 years totaling $10 million with a $4 million dollar bonus. Roughly $3,500,000 a year.
I think the play of Hovan over that year or so reflects Brian Youngs contribution and stature, thus I feel he won't be paid near what the Robaire and others got.