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texan279
01-03-2005, 06:21 PM
Here are David's numbers for his first three years compared to other QB's, not too shabby.


David Carr '02-'04

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 2002 hou | 16 | 233 444 52.5 2592 5.8 9 15 | 59 282 3 |
| 2003 hou | 12 | 167 295 56.6 2013 6.8 9 13 | 27 151 2 |
| 2004 hou | 16 | 286 467 61.2 3539 7.6 16 14 | 72 303 0 |

John Elway '83-'85

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1983 den | 11 | 123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14 | 28 146 1 |
| 1984 den | 15 | 214 380 56.3 2598 6.8 18 15 | 56 237 1 |
| 1985 den | 16 | 327 605 54.0 3891 6.4 22 23 | 51 253 0 |

Terry Bradshaw '70-'72

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1970 pit | 13 | 83 218 38.1 1410 6.5 6 24 | 32 233 1 |
| 1971 pit | 14 | 203 373 54.4 2259 6.1 13 22 | 53 247 5 |
| 1972 pit | 14 | 147 308 47.7 1887 6.1 12 12 | 58 346 7 |

Randall Cunningham '85-'87

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1985 phi | 6 | 34 81 42.0 548 6.8 1 8 | 29 205 0 |
| 1986 phi | 15 | 111 209 53.1 1391 6.7 8 7 | 66 540 5 |
| 1987 phi | 12 | 223 406 54.9 2786 6.9 23 12 | 76 505 3 |

Troy Aikman '89-'91

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1989 dal | 11 | 155 293 52.9 1749 6.0 9 18 | 38 302 0 |
| 1990 dal | 15 | 226 399 56.6 2579 6.5 11 18 | 40 172 1 |
| 1991 dal | 12 | 237 363 65.3 2754 7.6 11 10 | 16 5 1 |

Steve McNair '95-'97

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1995 hou | 6 | 41 80 51.2 569 7.1 3 1 | 11 38 0 |
| 1996 hou | 10 | 88 143 61.5 1197 8.4 6 4 | 31 169 2 |
| 1997 ten | 16 | 216 415 52.0 2665 6.4 14 13 | 101 674 8 |

Warren Moon '84-'86

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1984 hou | 16 | 259 450 57.6 3338 7.4 12 14 | 58 211 1 |
| 1985 hou | 14 | 200 377 53.1 2709 7.2 15 19 | 39 130 0 |
| 1986 hou | 15 | 256 488 52.5 3489 7.1 13 26 | 42 157 2 |

Joe Namath '65-'67

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1965 nyj | 13 | 164 340 48.2 2220 6.5 18 15 | 8 19 0 |
| 1966 nyj | 14 | 232 471 49.3 3379 7.2 19 27 | 6 42 2 |
| 1967 nyj | 14 | 258 491 52.5 4007 8.2 26 28 | 6 14 0 |

Phil Simms '79-'81

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1979 nyg | 12 | 134 265 50.6 1743 6.6 13 14 | 29 166 1 |
| 1980 nyg | 13 | 193 402 48.0 2321 5.8 15 19 | 36 190 1 |
| 1981 nyg | 10 | 172 316 54.4 2031 6.4 11 9 | 19 42 0 |

Fran Tarkenton '61-'63

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1961 min | 14 | 157 280 56.1 1997 7.1 18 17 | 56 308 5 |
| 1962 min | 14 | 163 329 49.5 2595 7.9 22 25 | 41 361 2 |
| 1963 min | 14 | 170 297 57.2 2311 7.8 15 15 | 28 162 1 |

Steve Young '85-'87

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1985 tam | 5 | 72 138 52.2 935 6.8 3 8 | 40 233 1 |
| 1986 tam | 14 | 195 363 53.7 2282 6.3 8 13 | 74 425 5 |
| 1987 sfo | 8 | 37 69 53.6 570 8.3 10 0 | 26 190 1 |

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 06:26 PM
I haven't seen anyone state that they hate Carr. He's a decent guy and a decent QB, but that doesn't mean he can't be criticized.

All of you guys with the man-crush need to get over it.

texansfan88
01-03-2005, 06:30 PM
man, i used to have respect for you honger, you've blown it all with your blowups the last two weeks

texan279
01-03-2005, 06:35 PM
It's not a man crush, I just can't stand it when people think we should be in the Super Bowl already and we should be sending half of our starters to Hawaii. David Carr is in his 3rd year, young players take time to develop and there are some here calling for his head. When you start an expansion team that is built mostly around your drafted players, it is going to take some time to develop a strong winning team, it's not an overnight thing. Anyways back to my point, Carr will be fine next year, you can't just take your first pick in history who is making millions, who has been learning the offense, learning our system, playing behind one of the worst pass blocking units, running for his life, and burn him at the stake just because the team went 7-9 in their 3rd year and lost their last game to the Browns.

He's a decent guy and a decent QB, but that doesn't mean he can't be criticized.

At least give him a chance to play behind an at least average O line before you criticize him. You cannot expect him to play behind this O line and expect him to put up Manning like numbers. I mean he is 12th in the NFL in passer rating even behind this O line.

TEXANS84
01-03-2005, 06:36 PM
man, i used to have respect for you honger, you've blown it all with your blowups the last two weeks

Agreed.

I'd like to see Peyton Manning with our o-line.

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 06:36 PM
TexansFan88, you hurt my heart.

Anishin
01-03-2005, 06:37 PM
Nice breakdown Texan279, that had to take some work.

texan279
01-03-2005, 06:39 PM
Thanks, I did it because I am tired of all of the hate directed at Carr. The man has not really had a chance to show us what he has yet and some people want him benched already. It is unreal.

Anishin
01-03-2005, 06:53 PM
Thanks, I did it because I am tired of all of the hate directed at Carr. The man has not really had a chance to show us what he has yet and some people want him benched already. It is unreal.

The team will grow, and he will grow with them. Heck we didn't know what we had here, Fresno beat Colorado to pretty much start it all. Most of us were like, Carr looked pretty good. The by the end of the season I think most of us were amazed by him, even those who didn't see him coming, or didn't want to see.

In the end it's all about the wins that we need to win everybody over, and those will come. He's an aggressive QB and needs to be let lose like that, he's not a game manager and not a dink and dunker. For me the offense just isn't aggressive enough, calling screens on 3rd and 6 just about sets me off everytime, but then there is probably a reason I'm posting on a message board and not designing offenses. :)

texan279
01-03-2005, 07:11 PM
For me the offense just isn't aggressive enough

I think our playcalling on both sides is not aggressive enough, sometimes. I remember a few games this year when the defense would blitz in a game and the offense would open up the playbook, and it seemed to work, but somewhow we always ended up back to the smae old same old. But now that I think about it, I think the playcalling was kind of conservative on both sides due to the amount of rookies we had starting on defense (3 defensive rookies started for us in the last 2 games, most rookies to start for a team on defense, only 14 rookies started on defense in the entire NFL in the entire season), and on the offensive side my opinion is the conservative playcalling was due to the O line learning the zone blocking. Just my opinion, I am no coach or expert, but no matter what I support my Texans 110% all the way no matter what, just like 89% of us here do, and I am looking forward to next season. Luckily, I have NASCAR to hold me until football starts again.

ArlingtonTexan
01-03-2005, 07:27 PM
Agreed.

I'd like to see Peyton Manning with our o-line.

That O-line he is behind is not a great line. Manning makes them look better with his ability to make quick decisions, a quick release, and stepping up in the pocket.

I am guess i fall into the category of "Carr hater" because i think he is going to always be inconsistent. he will have some great games and even good years, but as of now when he has time he makes too many poor decisions. he is best when he is out of the pocket and can either let it fly with one or two options or take off and run, but in the NFL QBs who consistently make a difference in the passing game do so from the pocket. He is a starting quality QB in the NFL, I just don't think he is an elite guy. Honestly, as a Texans fans I hope he proves me wrong. I will gladly eat that crow.

BuffSoldier
01-03-2005, 07:31 PM
No O-line, questionable QB play, good O-line, a Pro Bowl Caliber QB.

thegr8fan
01-03-2005, 07:53 PM
Carr and the O-line is one of those 'what came first, the chicken or the egg' questions, IMHO.

Carr is an average QB in the NFL, at best. He has no pocket awareness, gets happy feet, until yesterday (for a total of ONE play) he ALWAYS scrambles to his right, makes poor decisions, hangs onto the ball too long, and doesn't look downfield when he does start to run.

The O-line playing is terrible, especially at the Center position. Pitts at LG has played a grand total of 1 year there (this one), and it was under a new scheme. He didn't play football till college and has played EVERY down since the Texans inception in 2002. But there were times when they formed a pocket and Carr ran right out of it and into the rushing DE who wasn't any where near him at all, originally. There were other times when it was a complete failure of protection.

So does Carr have happy feet cause he always hears footsteps coming with the current O-line? Or does the current O-line know that he isn't going to stay in the pocket anyway, so why try forming one?

For all you Carr lovers, here is some advice from me. Stop emulating him and get a haircut so you can actually SEE the game. Carr himself said that the way the Texans played yesterday NEEDED to be boo-ed. Carr has some growing to do and I am not going to say fire him or replace him. But his place on the team is NOT above critiqueing and forming an opinion on. Anyone who thinks Carr is the type of QB to take a team to the Superbowl on his back (ie Marino, Montana) had better re-evaluate their opinions though, cause THAT ain't going to happen.

Carr is an average QB in the NFL. Saying that isn't HATING on him, it is simply being realistic.

rdbrem
01-03-2005, 07:54 PM
Check it out using the thread search...

24 posts mentioning Carr (by the wronger)

23 against
1 for...

actually, the one for he was just complaining about Chicago fans cheering one of Carr's injuries, but that's the closest he got to being balanced

Wow, you can even get stat's on the 'fans' now... :jumpbanan

texansfan88
01-03-2005, 07:55 PM
I'm just tired of all this talk BECAUSE remember last week when the Jags board got livid cuz they lost to us and were calling for the qb's head? That's exactly what most of you sound like

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 07:58 PM
Carr is an average QB in the NFL. Saying that isn't HATING on him, it is simply being realistic.

Good points, but be prepared for the heat. Negative opinions about the mesiah are punishable by death on this board.

texansfan88
01-03-2005, 07:59 PM
Good points, but be prepared for the heat. Negative opinions about the mesiah are punishable by death on this board.
get a life...

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 08:04 PM
Check it out using the thread search...

24 posts mentioning Carr (by the wronger)

23 against
1 for...

actually, the one for he was just complaining about Chicago fans cheering one of Carr's injuries, but that's the closest he got to being balanced

Wow, you can even get stat's on the 'fans' now... :jumpbanan

Yeah, I should probably be banished for having negative opinions about Houston's savior.

Most of these have been post-Cleveland. I could join in the Carr love fest but what fun would that be?

BornOrange
01-03-2005, 08:08 PM
For all you Carr lovers, here is some advice from me. Stop emulating him and get a haircut so you can actually SEE the game. Carr himself said that the way the Texans played yesterday NEEDED to be boo-ed. Carr has some growing to do and I am not going to say fire him or replace him. But his place on the team is NOT above critiqueing and forming an opinion on. Anyone who thinks Carr is the type of QB to take a team to the Superbowl on his back (ie Marino, Montana) had better re-evaluate their opinions though, cause THAT ain't going to happen.

Carr is an average QB in the NFL. Saying that isn't HATING on him, it is simply being realistic.
Right now Carr is definitely an average NFL QB, although I think he will improve a lot over the next couple of years. I don't think he will be a Hall of Fame QB but he should be one of the best QB's in the league when he's in his prime.

While the team needed to be booed, the way fans singled out Carr when he came back into the game after being injured was completely classless. Anyone who booed at that time should never attend another Texans game. If I had been there in person, I would have probably gotten into a fight or two with any losers around me who did boo. That is if they had the balls to back up their idiocy, which is unlikely.

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 08:13 PM
get a life...

texansfan88, I apologize for hurting your feelings.

My mother told me that if you don't have anything positive to say, don't say anything at all. I will try to abide by this motto going forward to avoid hurting any more feelings.

thegr8fan
01-03-2005, 08:15 PM
While the team needed to be booed, the way fans singled out Carr when he came back into the game after being injured was completely classless. I almost agree completely. The part I wouldn't agree with is the fact of booing your team, EVER, as a fan. I simply won't do it.

And I hope that your prediction of the future for Carr comes true. BOY do I hope it does. But since I don't have a better picture on Carr's potential I am going to simply grade him on his past and present.

I don't dislike Carr, I simply don't think he is the next coming of the Marino/Montana mesiah that some on this board predict.

Sure wouldn't hurt my feeling any to be wrong. Not even a little bit.

texansfan88
01-03-2005, 08:15 PM
No, it's just like this

Pete (Gr8Fan) makes great points when he discusses topics. You on the other hand rant. When you know what you're talking about and know a little more about the game, then I'll listen to you.

Things like All of you guys with the man-crush need to get over it makes no sense to the conversation and that's why it's tough to listen to you b/c you have no credibility in what you're talking about.

shinerbock_girl
01-03-2005, 08:18 PM
Carr is awesome and wait till we get a decent o-line and he'll show em....

texansfan88
01-03-2005, 08:18 PM
"If I was him I would try to get out of this system ASAP. Trade him for O-line help... it's not like the Texans coaches are gonna use him anyway."-Wonger

And comments like that...

Tedc
01-03-2005, 08:22 PM
All of you guys with the man-crush need to get over it.

OK. It is a man crush. If he continues to grow his hair, it may be a she man crush.

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 08:28 PM
"If I was him I would try to get out of this system ASAP. Trade him for O-line help... it's not like the Texans coaches are gonna use him anyway."-Wonger

And comments like that...

You're right, to some degree. There should be a 48-hour post-game ban imposed on me after a loss. A lot of it is hot air, but I don't think the coaches, Carr or anyone else in the organization is above criticism when they perform poorly.

I've made some positive posts also. Seriously.

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 08:32 PM
I've seen like 2 or 3.

I didn't say there were a lot.

Tedc
01-03-2005, 08:35 PM
I am positively certain he most certainly must have.

Texan Gal 312
01-03-2005, 10:16 PM
texansfan88, I apologize for hurting your feelings.

My mother told me that if you don't have anything positive to say, don't say anything at all. I will try to abide by this motto going forward to avoid hurting any more feelings.

:rofl: Children -dare I say you sound like a bunch of ...what you accuse women of sounding like.

Give Carr at least until the end of next year before you pass judgement.
I wish the above stats would have included the fourth year that is when you start seeing improvement.
Also keep in mind some rookies who came in and looked great in their first year later looked... not so good. Kerry Collins comes to mind. People rush to judgement too often on quarterbacks. Look where Drew Brees was this time last year and where he is now. And guess what... San Diego didn't even change coaches.... amazing !

fresno8
01-03-2005, 11:48 PM
That O-line he is behind is not a great line. Manning makes them look better with his ability to make quick decisions, a quick release, and stepping up in the pocket.
.
Did you ever think our receivers aren't open so he can't make that quick read. Manning is always throwing to wide open receivers, even the short passes. Not only that he has 3 great playmakers (3 1,000 yrd guys) How many times have you seen Carr throw to a wide open receivers compared to Manning. Hard to step up in the pocket when there is no "consistent"pocket, yes sometimes there is one and he doesn't step into it, but when you've been sacked about 150 times in three years and probably hit that many times as well would you step up into the pocket (you can only take so much and it will take a lot to earn his trust back). There have been many times where Carr steps and throws into that pocket and gets blown up yes that's part of the game, but this guy has been abused.

LuvYaTexans
01-04-2005, 12:00 AM
:listening Anyone who thinks Carr is the type of QB to take a team to the Superbowl on his back (ie Marino, Montana) had better re-evaluate their opinions though, cause THAT ain't going to happen.

Carr is an average QB in the NFL. Saying that isn't HATING on him, it is simply being realistic.--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I'll save this post and re-print it when we do make it to the Superbowl, whenever that may be. I've been up in my office for about 2 hours reading all this **** about how Carr should be booed, Carr is this, Carr should do that, he stinks, he needs to move up in the pocket, he's average.........I think I'll go take a shower now and take my brain out and give it a good cleaning as well! I wish you could all "hear yourselves" WOW I'm totally amazed at the total disrespect, he's NOT SUPERMAN, NOT a perfect QB, not a seasoned QB, but a intelligent, talented young man, whom from all accounts has all the tools he needs to be a GREAT QB in the NFL. And the fans boo him for all his hard work, toughness & efforts. Amazing! Simply amazing! But, that's our society these days & your choice as a ticket paying fan and an unfortunate one it is. :( Buying a ticket doesn't give us the right to be rude. Nor does being paid 60 million make you not human.

Chris Berman on ESPN, NFL countdown had nothing but praise and accolades for this young man. They were extremely complimentary of his toughness and work ethics. NOT to mention Mr. McNair who is NOT a stupid man, but rather an articulate smart business man. He see's the value in his investment in a young man with noble character, & talent and he seems determined to protect it and I applaud him for it and his commitment. There's not much of that anymore...you know fortitude and commitment and "in for the long-haul" mindset...it doesn't seem to exist anymore. That is evident by some on this board. I for one join Mr. McNair, Chris Berman and the whole TEXAN'S team in saying, I'm in for the duration, whatever and wherever it may take us.
Players will come and go and we'll get our kicks off of praising them and kicking them....hmm even booing them, but what it comes down to is this, nobody wants to come home to their own house or front door to hear boos by their own family. Nobody. To have that happen in a supposed "safe
environment" is disfunctional to say the least. If we truely say that we want to be a better Houston and put the past behind us, regarding the BUD years, then we'd better as well LEARN from the past and be prepared NOT TO REPEAT IT! If we don't, then we will get what we dish out, a team that despises us and hates playing for us. I for one think that we should express our opinions and we should be heard as a FAN base, but booing is sending the wrong message to our TEAM, one that will come back and bite us in the butt if we don't stop it. These are men, that yes, make the big bucks and yes, are paid to entertain US, but I'd rather work for someone who appreciates me, than someone who loathes me. Boos send the wrong message.

This young man, QB, millionair, human being or whatever you want to call him, isn't God and doesn't pretend to be from all I've heard and seen. I for one, if you are reading this DAVID CARR don't agree with the boos and I'm not a CARR lover, as some like to poke fun at, but an admirer of you and the talent you've apparently worked hard for all your life, and I respect your hard work ethics and commitment to this team. Not to mention your high moral character I've seen. We need more like you in this NFL, especially with the Ricky Williams types we've seen lately. You are to be applauded, not worshiped, for all you've had to endure to get this team on it's feet and ready for a winning season. It will happen, just don't let all this stuff get to you. IT's only a handful, so keep your focus on the goal and not the speed bumps along the way. Keep looking ahead and not behind, because it will only give you sore neck! I heard you say that you were equally upset and would have booed as well. At least your honesly frustrated and wanting things to improve, not flipping the fans off during the game, like some I've seen lately. You've got more class than that I presume. Hang in there, most of us "have your back" and it will all work out.

Well, that's my soap box for the month. I must say that I feel better having said it. Not that it'll do any good. So now you can all jump on me and analyze my words. It's quite ok with me, I've got tough skin and I'm not a young QB trying to find a way to win games am I, I guess he's free game. In fact I fully expect it. Call me what you will, but you'll never call me unfaithful to my team, just a FAN. By the way, did you all ever stop to think that his lovely wife and family might just be in that stadium listening. I hear he has children as well, I guess they loved hearing you all boo their daddy. That must have been fun for those little tikes to hear, not to mention the other children in the stadium, maybe your own, who are watching a listening to all of us ADULTS and I say that loosly. Have a good one.
Go Texan's............I've got your back!

edo783
01-04-2005, 12:06 AM
Is David "Saint David"?? Hardly and he has some things that need work, but until
he gets at least an AVERAGE NFL line it will be impossible to tell what we really have at QB. Until he has confidence that the o-line will protect him, he wont spend a great deal of time looking for open recieves before dumping off or taking off running. If we don't/haven't ruined him by having the snott beat out him every week for three years, I think he will be a GOOD QB that snags a few Probowls. Hall of Fame, probably not. If the only thing some folks will accept is absolute perfection and total domination with the press praising everything, I suspect that they are going to be sorely disappointed.

Sco-tai
01-04-2005, 01:24 AM
Wonger...noone digs someone who feels sorry for themselves. Do not take a "poor me" stance if you're going to voice a myopically angled stance against a hugely popular star in the eyes of most whom visit this site/board. NOT bashing you, just saying "if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen".

I am as disappointed as anyone that our season ended with every other non-playoff team. But this is a feeling that Capers, Casserly and staff will most certainly rectify in THIS off season. Guaranteed? Obviously not. But quite likely if we hold steady and continue the high-quality/high-class organization excecution shown thus far.

4 - 12......5 - 11.......7 - 9.

Now if you were taking the SAT, GLAT, or whichever various standarized test, ask yourself, what is the next step in this pattern?
We have ZERO cap issue. We have ZERO injury issue. We have ZERO FA & DRAFT issues. And top 1/2 draft picks with a extra picks coming. So it's very logical to believe our team will be over .500 next year and very much an issue in the PLAYOFF picture. And to change coaching or QB at this point would be shuffling the deck far more than appropriate with given results.

Let our management focus on scouting FA's, RFA's & draft picks and not having to spend time responding to media/fan inquiries about poorly thought out complaints concerning vital facets of our team.

Does the O-line's pass protection need work. DEFINITELY.

But as the analogy relates to a car...if the tires are flat, the wheel doesn't turn very well. Fix the tires...and the wheel turns fine.
Fix the O-Line, and our QB will be in the top 3 for years to come.

And next time you post something obviously poorly substantiated, don't leave subsequent posts complaining about fan-feedback.

Oh..and if you've hung with this post for this long. What did you think about Carlos Rogers tonight from Auburn. WOW! A-Glenn, D-Rob & C-Rog in 2005 would be one of the best nickle DB sets around!!! Could give P-Manning nightmares!!! :coolb:

whotex8
01-04-2005, 02:28 AM
Expect nothing.....and you will never be disappointed!
Expect everything......and you will always be disappointed!
Progress comes one day and one game at a time.
If you look at the overall track record. We started at the bottom and are gradually working our way UP.

One day!
One game!
And....
One year..at a time!

We're a long way from "expect nothing"!

Go Texans!

MACFAN87
01-04-2005, 03:41 PM
I Wish Some Of You Would Lay Off Carr,pick Your Qb Anyone And Put'em Behind Our O-line And A Huge Grass Stain Will Become A Part Of Their Weekly Jersey. I Have Seen Every Texans Game And All But 2 Games Of Fresno St. Trust Me Carr Is The Heart Of This Team And Will Get Them To The Sb Land For Sure In Time ... We Need A Better Oline And Palmers Gotta Go Or Grow Some Balls.. Heck Carr Needs To Breath, Best Game Of The Year Minnesota Game Yea We Lost But We Seen What Are Team Can Do !!! Can U Imagine Our Coaches Calling Plays Like That The Whole Game The Whole Year!!!! Trust Me Get The O-line To Give Carr Time And Watch Our Texans Shine

phan1
01-04-2005, 04:06 PM
I think he's a potentially great QB, but I am really worried he will start regressing if we don't get him some protection. A lot of times in the season, he would take the hit and deliver the ball to a reciever. Now, he is abandoning the pocket way too soon, and starting to look at the pass rush. GET HIM SOME PROTECTION!!!

ArlingtonTexan
01-04-2005, 04:28 PM
Did you ever think our receivers aren't open so he can't make that quick read. Manning is always throwing to wide open receivers, even the short passes. Not only that he has 3 great playmakers (3 1,000 yrd guys) How many times have you seen Carr throw to a wide open receivers compared to Manning. Hard to step up in the pocket when there is no "consistent"pocket, yes sometimes there is one and he doesn't step into it, but when you've been sacked about 150 times in three years and probably hit that many times as well would you step up into the pocket (you can only take so much and it will take a lot to earn his trust back). There have been many times where Carr steps and throws into that pocket and gets blown up yes that's part of the game, but this guy has been abused.

Does the guy need better overall protection? yes, but learning how to deal with pressure is a part of Carr's job. Honestly, after 3 years of pressure he should be able to more than run to right when he gets pressure. He does not move around what ever pocket is there, nor step up in the pocket throw nor understand that he is going to get hit anyway why not make his throw. The elite QBs do some combination of these things regularly. Apart of an elite QBs job is that he makes plays which make his O-line and receivers look better than they are.

There 50-60 Qbs in the NFL with great protection and WRs running great routes and catching everything thrown to them can be a great player. For you guys who want me to buy that Carr is an elite QB his next step is to deal with a pass rush and make good decisions on a regular basis. If he never does, he will be a QB that is not any better than those around him. In other words, not special.

edo783
01-04-2005, 05:03 PM
We are using 7 people to block 4 and can't get it done. That leaves 7 people to cover 3 recievers. That is pretty much double coverage anywhere you look. Very little protection and the reciever corp as a whole is mostly double covered, any wonder its a problem passing? :thud:

Lucky
01-04-2005, 05:17 PM
...There 50-60 Qbs in the NFL with great protection and WRs running great routes and catching everything thrown to them can be a great player. For you guys who want me to buy that Carr is an elite QB his next step is to deal with a pass rush and make good decisions on a regular basis...
I don't think anyone is suggesting the need for great protection. How about average protection? When the Texans began the season 4-3, the Texans were allowing about 2.3 sacks/game (the league average). During this time, Carr was among the league leaders (top 10 or better) in passing yards, yards/attempt, completion %, and QB rating. When getting average NFL protection, Carr was making good decisions on a regular basis.

From that point on, Carr was sacked 3.6 times per game. He was hit on numerous attempts he did get off. And his passing stats went down. He also began to run from pressure so much that he became #3 in rushing attempts among QBs. Even in a game where the Texans held a 2 TD lead, week 16 in Jax, Carr was sacked or pressured 7 of the 14 times he dropped back in the 2nd half. With a lead! What kind of O-line can't pass protect with a 2 TD lead?

This isn't just an ordinary bad O-line. On the Inside the Texans wrap up show, 2 of Carr's sacks were shown via the endzone, or coaching tape, view. On both sacks, the check down receivers (Miiler on one, Davis on the other) were visable in the frame. Carr was sacked on on the ground before either check down receiver had turned around. Miller & Davis both threw their hands up in the air in frustration upon seeing this.

Asking Carr to just stand in the pocket and take a beating isn't the answer. The Texans aren't going to win games and Carr won't survive getting hit 50% of the time he drops back. What you should be asking is why does an O-line allow 50% more sacks in the 2nd half of the season? Why does an O-line look dominant in the 1st quarter in both the Jags & Browns game, but have their head handed to them in the 2nd half? I can think there are a couple of logical possibilities. What do you think?

wags
01-04-2005, 05:29 PM
This isn't just an ordinary bad O-line. On the Inside the Texans wrap up show, 2 of Carr's sacks were shown via the endzone, or coaching tape, view. On both sacks, the check down receivers (Miiler on one, Davis on the other) were visable in the frame. Carr was sacked on on the ground before either check down receiver had turned around. Miller & Davis both threw their hands up in the air in frustration upon seeing this.

I especially noticed the time Carr stepped up into the pocket, only to be met head on by the guy Pitts attempted to block.

P.S. Sorry I singled you out Chester.

WWJD
01-04-2005, 05:39 PM
One thing I wondered and I never really sat down and studied this watching a game. If Carr is getting enormous pressure

a) why don't they use their RB's for blocking? Emmitt Smith was/is great at this. Yet you never hear DD made a great block. Or maybe I miss it.

b)wasn't Bruener (sp?) suppose to be brought here for his blocking skills? I guess that isn't working if that's the case.

It seems to me that most of the pressure on Carr comes right up the middle.

Educate me you O line watchers. Am I missing something?

ArlingtonTexan
01-04-2005, 06:53 PM
I don't think anyone is suggesting the need for great protection. How about average protection? When the Texans began the season 4-3, the Texans were allowing about 2.3 sacks/game (the league average). During this time, Carr was among the league leaders (top 10 or better) in passing yards, yards/attempt, completion %, and QB rating. When getting average NFL protection, Carr was making good decisions on a regular basis.

From that point on, Carr was sacked 3.6 times per game. He was hit on numerous attempts he did get off. And his passing stats went down. He also began to run from pressure so much that he became #3 in rushing attempts among QBs. Even in a game where the Texans held a 2 TD lead, week 16 in Jax, Carr was sacked or pressured 7 of the 14 times he dropped back in the 2nd half. With a lead! What kind of O-line can't pass protect with a 2 TD lead?

This isn't just an ordinary bad O-line. On the Inside the Texans wrap up show, 2 of Carr's sacks were shown via the endzone, or coaching tape, view. On both sacks, the check down receivers (Miiler on one, Davis on the other) were visable in the frame. Carr was sacked on on the ground before either check down receiver had turned around. Miller & Davis both threw their hands up in the air in frustration upon seeing this.

Asking Carr to just stand in the pocket and take a beating isn't the answer. The Texans aren't going to win games and Carr won't survive getting hit 50% of the time he drops back. What you should be asking is why does an O-line allow 50% more sacks in the 2nd half of the season? Why does an O-line look dominant in the 1st quarter in both the Jags & Browns game, but have their head handed to them in the 2nd half? I can think there are a couple of logical possibilities. What do you think?

I am not going attempt to defend the performance of the O-line, but I am just not of the school that Carr is going to be the world's next great QB if the the line blocks. The comment that helps know that something is up with Carr working with his protection scheme was McKinney's statement that the blocking was not as bad as it looked. A QB who seemingly always scrammbles to the right no matter where the pressure is or even where the receivers are is not understanding how to beat the defense.

virginiatexan
01-04-2005, 06:57 PM
I just joined this board after watching the horrible display by fans this weekend. Booing the class act you have at quarterback in the first quarter was more indicative of Philadelphia fans than you. Maybe Carr didn't have the greatest game, maybe the linemen and running back didn't block, maybe nobody on the team cared about the last game.

Being a fan of an expansion team is hard. We head into our fourth year this September and continue to improve. Maybe Carr should move on as some on this board suggest and make some other city proud. He is a perfect representantive of our team, a number one draft choice, the leader on the sidelines, and never, never says anything bad about a line and running back that can't block that well.

I will always be a fan of Carr and the Texans but that booing display on Sunday did not say much about the city and its fans. Just my observation.

ccdude730
01-04-2005, 06:59 PM
a) why don't they use their RB's for blocking? Emmitt Smith was/is great at this. Yet you never hear DD made a great block. Or maybe I miss it.

b)wasn't Bruener (sp?) suppose to be brought here for his blocking skills? I guess that isn't working if that's the case.

It seems to me that most of the pressure on Carr comes right up the middle.

Educate me you O line watchers. Am I missing something?

answer key:
a) they do use him and hes pretty good at picking up the blitz. but he also has really good hands and alot of the times its like a safty valve for carr. hence all the receptions for DD this year

b) you got me on that one but because im not sure about passing situations with bruener. he is good on run blocking....

pressure wise? i think your right about the middle and in the last game it had alot to do with the RG (brown), but overall it might be because our center (mckiney) isnt dominant.

mother-in-law
01-04-2005, 07:00 PM
Josh Lovelady played ball for the U of H in the 1998 - 2000 time frame and then went on to play for Scottish Claymores (winning all Europe NFL recognition) and then went to Detroit Lions.

This young man has a love of the sport and, with the right coaching and guidance, will make a great NFL offensive lineman.

How do you tell the TEXANS that he is out there?/

ccdude730
01-04-2005, 07:05 PM
Booing the class act you have at quarterback in the first quarter was more indicative of Philadelphia fans than you. Maybe Carr didn't have the greatest game, maybe the linemen and running back didn't block, maybe nobody on the team cared about the last game.

it was in the 4th quarter when carr got injured and when he was coming back in. that was when it was rediculous. i was furious and started yelling at the people around me.

it sorta went like this:
me - "hey, what the [BLEEP]...are yall booing our franchise qb?"
jerk sitting in front of me - "yes"
me - (said something i shouldnt have under my breath)
****carr runs for his life and ends up getting a first down****
jerk sitting in front of me - (cheers for team) :loser

wags
01-04-2005, 07:20 PM
A QB who seemingly always scrammbles to the right no matter where the pressure is or even where the receivers are is not understanding how to beat the defense.

He scrambles to the right because he is right handed. If he ever scrambled to the left I would really question his thought process. Ever tried throwing across your body on the run? It doesn't work very well.

FILO_girl
01-04-2005, 08:27 PM
[QUOTE=BornOrange]Right now Carr is definitely an average NFL QB, although I think he will improve a lot over the next couple of years. I don't think he will be a Hall of Fame QB but he should be one of the best QB's in the league when he's in his prime.QUOTE]- not sure why that didn't quote right. Oh well.

ANYWAY
X'actly. I said he was no Brett Favre. That is not hatin', it is a realistic look at this time. Didn't say he was bad, just not Brett. But then again, Brett is my fave player of all time so it will take someone mighty awesome to fit this description. David has the humility and family values, but needs more skills to get there. Brett needed more than 3 years to prove himself too. :hmmm:

Give David some reliable protection and we will see a more confident and stronger QB. Hard to be tough when you have to beat feet or eat turf all the time. We do have a very mobile QB but really we don't want to see HOW mobile SO often! :thud:

Is this what you were getting at Wonger?

ArlingtonTexan
01-04-2005, 08:46 PM
He scrambles to the right because he is right handed. If he ever scrambled to the left I would really question his thought process. Ever tried throwing across your body on the run? It doesn't work very well.

Actually, it is tougher but not impossible, especialy if you are able to square you shoulders some. i have seen plenty of QBs including Carr do it. Again, watch other QBs. They scrammble up the field and to the left also. Carr has chosen to ge to the right even when there has not been a WR or TE to go to.

CalTexan
01-04-2005, 08:50 PM
game after game....we put ourselves in a position where we have to come from behind. Not good. We start off slow. We need to start off with a bang. Don't forget guys....Capers was a defensive coordinator.
In order for Carr to be effective.....he has to throw 25-30 a game. Capers is soo determined to pound the ball that puts little emphasis in our passing game.....that is why our passing plays are simple.
It is not tough to defend us.
Carr has a strong arm and is mobile. He needs more passing attempts in order to feel more comfortable and to get into a groove. But with our play calling....he cannot get into a groove!
If Carr was playing for the Colts......I gaurantee you he would be a star! Too bad for him!

thegr8fan
01-04-2005, 09:27 PM
If Carr was playing for the Colts......I gaurantee you he would be a star! Too bad for him if he were playing for the Colts he would be riding the pine bench and watching Manning take a defense apart. :heh:

infantrycak
01-04-2005, 10:56 PM
The comment that helps know that something is up with Carr working with his protection scheme was McKinney's statement that the blocking was not as bad as it looked.

I agree with some of what you have to say about Carr, but quoting the clearly worst player (and someone with a reputation for defensiveness) on the OL isn't really proof of anything.

For a little perspective, as a former Cowboys' fan virtually everything being said about Carr now was said about Aikman in his 1st three years. Amazing what a good OL and team in general can do for a QB's development.

And gr8--come on, Manning behind this OL would be better than Carr but would be a whiney boy with nothing like the stats he has had and meanwhile Carr in Indy wouldn't have Manning's stats but would be a "top tier" QB--not giving all that credit to Carr, but because of the offensive team.

thegr8fan
01-04-2005, 11:13 PM
the intention of my reply, infantry, was that if the Colts would have drafted Carr 3 years ago, he would be a backup to Manning. That is it, plain and simple.

I don't play the woulda, coulda, shoulda, fantasy game of Manning playing in Houston and Carr playing on the Colts. But your scenario would be the most probable if that were to occur with a simple one for one trade of QB's.

as for the McKinney comment, I am with infantry on that totally. When McKinney actually learns how to play center he MIGHT start to realize that the pressure being brought onto Carr is NOT normal. Until then he should keep his trap shut, cause all McKinney is doing is showing his ignorance of what a NORMAL O-line is supposed to do. IMHO.

TexanBacker93
01-04-2005, 11:25 PM
McKinney is popular because he's on 610. He's a average center at best and doesn't do either pass or run blocking exceptionally well. For him to criticize his QB shows that changes do need to be made on the line. He's supposed to be the anchor of that line and in 3 years I haven't seen him totally dominate anyone. He was serviceable for an expansion team, but for the Texans to make the move into the next level in the NFL's class system they have to upgrade their center.

As for the booing of Carr...he's the franchise QB for a team with expectations. He will be booed. Fans will always want the guy on the bench if the team isn't doing well. I grew up in Colorado and watched games at Mile High with Elway in the 80s. He was booed by fans in Denver when he struggled. It's part of being the leader of the team. He will be alright. Young QBs have bad games, bad strings of games even. I'd rather have him than a lot of what passes for starting QBs out there.

infantrycak
01-04-2005, 11:30 PM
the intention of my reply, infantry, was that if the Colts would have drafted Carr 3 years ago, he would be a backup to Manning. That is it, plain and simple.

I don't play the woulda, coulda, shoulda, fantasy game of Manning playing in Houston and Carr playing on the Colts. But your scenario would be the most probable if that were to occur with a simple one for one trade of QB's.

I knew your intention, just trying to add (and I think agree with the intent of the original post) that QB performance is to a degree relative to the team around them. Carr would definitely be the backup in Indy. IMO, Manning definitely wouldn't have won any MVP's behind our OL although I suspect we would have won a few more games.

Lucky
01-05-2005, 12:48 AM
...The comment that helps know that something is up with Carr working with his protection scheme was McKinney's statement that the blocking was not as bad as it looked...
I guess we just have a difference of opinion, just as McKinney and Billy Miller have a difference of opinion. From the Chronic (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/fb/texans/2975122):
"I think the fans are frustrated, but I think they unfairly took it out on David," tight end Billy Miller said. "He's the leader of this team. He's the leader of our offense. You can't take it out on him. If all the fans want to come in and break down film with us and see on every play where the real problem is ...
I have an opinion of where "the real problem is". Again, we had a small window into what Carr looks like with protection. With a RB that was struggling and a defense trying to find it's way, Carr led the team to a 4-3 record. So, I'm convinced that Carr can be a winning QB given average protection. I'm also convinced that, as it stands, this offensive can't give that to him.

virginiatexan
01-05-2005, 03:16 AM
if he were playing for the Colts he would be riding the pine bench and watching Manning take a defense apart. :heh:

Carr would be in by the the second quarter after Manning had been sacked hard three times and carried off the field because there was no blocking. I don't think Manning could take being sacked 76 times in a year like Carr did in his first. Manning is great no doubt but has a much better supporitng cast.

TexansTrueFan
01-05-2005, 06:58 AM
That O-line he is behind is not a great line. Manning makes them look better with his ability to make quick decisions, a quick release, and stepping up in the pocket.

I am guess i fall into the category of "Carr hater" because i think he is going to always be inconsistent. he will have some great games and even good years, but as of now when he has time he makes too many poor decisions. he is best when he is out of the pocket and can either let it fly with one or two options or take off and run, but in the NFL QBs who consistently make a difference in the passing game do so from the pocket. He is a starting quality QB in the NFL, I just don't think he is an elite guy. Honestly, as a Texans fans I hope he proves me wrong. I will gladly eat that crow.


what ??? If manning had to he could take a nap back there, what he's only been sacked 6 times this seaosn, are you telling me its because he's so fast and illusive like M. Vick ???? No its cause the O-Line actually protects him. What carr does he does on the run, if he had all day like manning he'd pick defenses apart as well !

the wonger need food
01-05-2005, 11:04 AM
I said he was no Brett Favre. That is not hatin', it is a realistic look at this time. Didn't say he was bad, just not Brett. But then again, Brett is my fave player of all time so it will take someone mighty awesome to fit this description. David has the humility and family values, but needs more skills to get there. Brett needed more than 3 years to prove himself too. :hmmm:

Give David some reliable protection and we will see a more confident and stronger QB. Hard to be tough when you have to beat feet or eat turf all the time. We do have a very mobile QB but really we don't want to see HOW mobile SO often! :thud:

Is this what you were getting at Wonger?

Yes and no. I was just pointing out the fact that the guy is average right now. He's not great and he's not bad, he's average. Do I hope he becomes great... heck yeah. A lot of people don't want to hear that. If you don't believe he is the next Joe Montana then you hate him. There should be nothing wrong with criticizing players, if they are the "franchise" QB or 2nd string long snapper.

TexansTrueFan
01-05-2005, 02:10 PM
Carr is GONNA be a great Quarter Back !!!

shinerbock_girl
01-05-2005, 03:37 PM
Carr is GONNA be a great Quarter Back !!!

Enough said, as TexansTrueFan said it all...

HJam72
01-05-2005, 04:28 PM
P. Manning would look bad with our O-line. I know Carr makes mistakes, but that's because he has no faith in his protection and I don't blame him, because I don't either.

chuckm
01-05-2005, 04:42 PM
Well let me preface this by saying that I'm a big Texan fan and a Carr fan. I've been to every home game in 3 years (except pre-season) and I wear a Carr jersey. My concern is that he's been pounded so much that he's finding it hard to make himself look downfield when he actually does get time. I can't blame him mind you. Maybe I'm off here but at times he checks down very quickly (maybe too quickly). Hopefully after a few games where he gets some time to actually set his feet then things will start clicking again...

:twocents:

ronaldod1
01-05-2005, 05:30 PM
ok so carr is an average quarterback in his third year with numbers comparable to some of the all time greats at the same point in their careers. He's an average QB in an absolutely AWFUL offensive system. starts with the O line obviously, they're terrible terrible terrible. The capers mantra of establishing the run cannot work with a line like that so it places added stress on the passing game. so a good coach rolls double coverage to AJ and allows Gaf and Bradford to do as they please. The problem with this is taht those two guys ARENT ANY GOOD. they're essentially castoffs from other teams. The redskins got rid of gaffney for gods sake. so a typical houston offensive possesion that didnt work was DD to the left for 1 DD to the left for 2 Carr sacked because the D end was in the pocket within 2 seconds. anyone wonder why the offense looked so good against the vikings int he second half?? they had to pass the ball because they were behind. i for one, am absolutely impressed with the numbers Carr put up this season all things considered. if the D had been able to contain Favre just ONCE int he 4th quarter the Texans would have been looking at 8-7 going into their final game, still alive in the playoffs, probably played with some passion ended up 9-7 and everyone here would be raving about how much the team has improved and how damn good the nucleus of the team is. i logged on because i figured everyone at this point would be hyping up the team for next season and predicting draft picks......but all i see is more bashing of one of its best players. he'll be here for a while keep it positive

wags
01-05-2005, 05:45 PM
The redskins got rid of gaffney for gods sake.

When did they do this? :um:

SESupergenius
01-05-2005, 06:04 PM
umm we drafted Gaffney, he's played with no one else, but I agree with your assessment.

ronaldod1
01-05-2005, 11:43 PM
oops....for some reason i thought gaffney was on that team with spurrier when wuerful and mathews were QBs, but i got him mixed up with taylor jacobs because they were on the same team at florida. sorry dudes

TexaninKorea
01-06-2005, 12:42 AM
Carr is a stud. All he needs is an O line.

disaacks3
01-06-2005, 01:12 AM
I swear some of the posters on here have been hanging out & doing some 'wacky weed' with Ricky Williams!

The comparison at the beginning of this thread should never have included Warren Moon - He was already a "pro" QB for several years before he came to the NFL. Nobody considered Kurt Warner a rookie coming from the Arena league....the CFL is a little tougher.

David Carr, at present, is not even close to any of these current QBs: (Note: this eval is O-Line independent)

Peyton Manning - Probably the finest "student of the game" in existence right now. He reads, reacts and calls plays at the line that Carr simply isn't capable of at this time.

Donovan McNabb - A QB that possesses superior size and physical strength. His scrambling ability is helped by the difficulty in bringing him down 1-on-1.

Brett Favre - Despite being "pick-prone" due to forcing the ball, can still take complete control of a game. Never gives up on the play, no matter how bad his protection has broken down. Probably the most dangerous QB (while scrambling) the NFL has ever seen.

The list goes on, but you should get the idea. Can Carr develop into a QB of this high caliber? Time will tell. Right now, his mechanics are still poor (sidearm motion), his ability to read NFL defenses still needs to mature (and speed up!), his pocket presence is below average (he doesn't seem to sense defenders...only impending doom), and he can't read progressions fast enough yet (still locking on too much). There's also the issue of some passes that have had more hang-time than a Chad Stanley punt, and others forced into double, triple & quadruple coverage!

Undoubtedly, the O-Line & injuries have greatly affected Carr's development in these areas. There have been times, however, that Carr has been the master of his own demise by scrambling out of an actual pocket and into oncoming defenders.

I too would like to see what David could do with a real OL, a "Complete" TE, and another "possession" WR. That said, he's got his own share of faults right now that need to be corrected before the whole team can improve. If you're not the Bucs or the Ravens from years past, your QB is still the most important cog in the machine, and the Texans are no different. :twocents:

Lucky
01-06-2005, 10:08 AM
The list goes on, but you should get the idea. Can Carr develop into a QB of this high caliber? Time will tell. Right now, his mechanics are still poor (sidearm motion), his ability to read NFL defenses still needs to mature (and speed up!), his pocket presence is below average (he doesn't seem to sense defenders...only impending doom), and he can't read progressions fast enough yet (still locking on too much). There's also the issue of some passes that have had more hang-time than a Chad Stanley punt, and others forced into double, triple & quadruple coverage!
Well, that's quite a list. :whew And I think, if Carr really applies himself, he could be a totally changed QB by...lunch.

Really, is there any aspect of the game where you think Carr is adequate? So, what should the Texans do to remedy this? Dump Carr? Bring in a new QB coach? Hold a candlelight vigil? What's your solution, or is this just another opportunity to bash?

BTW, your fav QB Farve throws from every arm slot imaginable. And doom did more than just impend this season. There's no doubt that Carr has had more opportunities to "sense defenders" than any other QB in the NFL. QB's don't play in a vacuum, you can't really evalute them without considering factors such as pass blocking. Your empirical evidence aside, there's objective evidence that if the Texans pass protection improves, many of the items on your list disappear.

hou059
01-06-2005, 11:24 AM
Unbelievable, some of you guys are just ripping this guy apart. Oh he has happy feet, he is inconsistant, he will be an average NFL QB. Paaaahlease!
What do you want this guy to do? Oh, you want him to avoid two defensive lineman, who just blew by his RG and C, regain his composure, stand up tall in the pocket release a spiral downfield to his double covered reciever, without blinking cause that's what yall would do right! He makes mistakes yeah but he hardly loses the games. This kid is doing great and is doing what is asked of him by the coaches. He stayed injury free for the most part and didn't miss a game and for that his offesnisve lineman allows him to get sacked 49 times this year. Even Troy Aikamn didn't put of gaudy numbers his first three years, infact his numbers really look alot like Carr's number's over his first three years. check it out:

PASSING
Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
2002 Houston Texans 16 16 444 233 52.5 2592 5.84 81 9 15 76/411 31 5 62.8
2003 Houston Texans 12 11 295 167 56.6 2013 6.82 78 9 13 15/90 22 5 69.5
2004 Houston Texans 16 16 466 285 61.2 3531 7.58 69 16 14 49/301 47 6 83.5
TOTAL 44 43 1205 685 56.8 8136 6.75 81 34 42 140/802 100 16

Troy Aikman
PASSING
YEAR TEAM G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Rate
1989 Dallas Cowboys 11 11 293 155 52.9 1749 6.0 75t 9 18 55.7
1990 Dallas Cowboys 15 15 399 226 56.6 2579 6.5 61t 11 18 66.6
1991 Dallas Cowboys 12 12 363 237 65.3 2754 7.6 61 11 10 86.7

There are plenty of Qb's that have played in the league with less talent than Carr that have made it to the Super Bowl. Dilfer, Dlehomme, Chris Chandler, Jeff Hostetler. And yall are saying Carr won't make it? C'mon now, why are yall even thinking Super Bowl in year three, this is a five year deal remember. By year 6 if he hasn't turned things around then yeah okay lets talk how inconsistant Carr is but give him a break...it's not like he is the second comming of Ryan Leaf!

disaacks3
01-06-2005, 12:12 PM
Really, is there any aspect of the game where you think Carr is adequate? So, what should the Texans do to remedy this? Dump Carr? Bring in a new QB coach? Hold a candlelight vigil? What's your solution, or is this just another opportunity to bash?I stated his weaknesses at THIS TIME. Can you really put Carr on the level of any of those 3 QBs...no matter WHAT line he's behind?

Accurate criticism is only considered "bashing" by the ill-informed. Dispute my criticisms of the "current Carr", not the "Carr we'd like to have"...if you can. :listening

BTW - I think Carr has exceptional arm strength and better than average running ability. For the intangibles - I think he's a really classy guy who truly wants to succeed for the fans here in Houston. Yep, I've got a real "hate on" for the guy.... :um:

El Tejano
01-06-2005, 01:56 PM
I heard that Carr was shown on TV throwing his helmet and pointing blame at the offensive line. Again, just stuff I heard because I don't have any access to shows in Houston but I sure hope that didn't happen.

I agree that if things haven't turned around after year 5, we got to look elsewhere. I also wouldn't be too upset if we brought in another QB just to give him that feeling that his position is not his alone. This may bring the real player out of him.

ArlingtonTexan
01-06-2005, 01:58 PM
I swear some of the posters on here have been hanging out & doing some 'wacky weed' with Ricky Williams!

The comparison at the beginning of this thread should never have included Warren Moon - He was already a "pro" QB for several years before he came to the NFL. Nobody considered Kurt Warner a rookie coming from the Arena league....the CFL is a little tougher.

David Carr, at present, is not even close to any of these current QBs: (Note: this eval is O-Line independent)

Peyton Manning - Probably the finest "student of the game" in existence right now. He reads, reacts and calls plays at the line that Carr simply isn't capable of at this time.

Donovan McNabb - A QB that possesses superior size and physical strength. His scrambling ability is helped by the difficulty in bringing him down 1-on-1.

Brett Favre - Despite being "pick-prone" due to forcing the ball, can still take complete control of a game. Never gives up on the play, no matter how bad his protection has broken down. Probably the most dangerous QB (while scrambling) the NFL has ever seen.

The list goes on, but you should get the idea. Can Carr develop into a QB of this high caliber? Time will tell. Right now, his mechanics are still poor (sidearm motion), his ability to read NFL defenses still needs to mature (and speed up!), his pocket presence is below average (he doesn't seem to sense defenders...only impending doom), and he can't read progressions fast enough yet (still locking on too much). There's also the issue of some passes that have had more hang-time than a Chad Stanley punt, and others forced into double, triple & quadruple coverage!

Undoubtedly, the O-Line & injuries have greatly affected Carr's development in these areas. There have been times, however, that Carr has been the master of his own demise by scrambling out of an actual pocket and into oncoming defenders.

I too would like to see what David could do with a real OL, a "Complete" TE, and another "possession" WR. That said, he's got his own share of faults right now that need to be corrected before the whole team can improve. If you're not the Bucs or the Ravens from years past, your QB is still the most important cog in the machine, and the Texans are no different. :twocents:

Thanks for this post. These are some the same things that i see in Carr with or without protection. I don't think that you or i hate Carr, but we don't see him in that TOP 5-10 elite category of QBs. Most of the posters here think if a guy is either sucks or is great when most QBs are somewhere in between. Carr is that middle ground with a bunch of guys. He does something well and other he does not. He needs more things around him than these guys do. The difference between these guys and the middle level guys is that they make the players (including O-lines).

TexansTrueFan
01-06-2005, 03:02 PM
some times you guys make it feel like the OILERS era all over again :( and we've only existed for 3 years !

texan279
01-06-2005, 03:45 PM
disaacks3 said:

I swear some of the posters on here have been hanging out & doing some 'wacky weed' with Ricky Williams!

The comparison at the beginning of this thread should never have included Warren Moon - He was already a "pro" QB for several years before he came to the NFL. Nobody considered Kurt Warner a rookie coming from the Arena league....the CFL is a little tougher.

David Carr, at present, is not even close to any of these current QBs: (Note: this eval is O-Line independent)

Peyton Manning - Probably the finest "student of the game" in existence right now. He reads, reacts and calls plays at the line that Carr simply isn't capable of at this time.

Donovan McNabb - A QB that possesses superior size and physical strength. His scrambling ability is helped by the difficulty in bringing him down 1-on-1.

Brett Favre - Despite being "pick-prone" due to forcing the ball, can still take complete control of a game. Never gives up on the play, no matter how bad his protection has broken down. Probably the most dangerous QB (while scrambling) the NFL has ever seen.

Thanks for helping me prove my point. David Carr put up better numbers in his 3rd year as a pro football QB than Warren Moon did in his 3rd year in the NFL AFTER he had experience in the CFL. I just compared year 1-3 numbers for several successful QB's to see how Carr is doing in copmarison. And how can you compare Carr now to McNabb, Favre, and Manning now? Favre has been in the league 14 years, Manning 7 years, and McNabb 6 years. Maybe if Carr didn't have to spend so much time running for his life, he would have a chance to show us a little more.

thunderkyss
04-21-2006, 09:04 AM
Here are David's numbers for his first three years compared to other QB's, not too shabby.


David Carr '02-'04

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 2002 hou | 16 | 233 444 52.5 2592 5.8 9 15 | 59 282 3 |
| 2003 hou | 12 | 167 295 56.6 2013 6.8 9 13 | 27 151 2 |
| 2004 hou | 16 | 286 467 61.2 3539 7.6 16 14 | 72 303 0 |

John Elway '83-'85

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1983 den | 11 | 123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14 | 28 146 1 |
| 1984 den | 15 | 214 380 56.3 2598 6.8 18 15 | 56 237 1 |
| 1985 den | 16 | 327 605 54.0 3891 6.4 22 23 | 51 253 0 |

Terry Bradshaw '70-'72

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1970 pit | 13 | 83 218 38.1 1410 6.5 6 24 | 32 233 1 |
| 1971 pit | 14 | 203 373 54.4 2259 6.1 13 22 | 53 247 5 |
| 1972 pit | 14 | 147 308 47.7 1887 6.1 12 12 | 58 346 7 |

Randall Cunningham '85-'87

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1985 phi | 6 | 34 81 42.0 548 6.8 1 8 | 29 205 0 |
| 1986 phi | 15 | 111 209 53.1 1391 6.7 8 7 | 66 540 5 |
| 1987 phi | 12 | 223 406 54.9 2786 6.9 23 12 | 76 505 3 |

Troy Aikman '89-'91

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1989 dal | 11 | 155 293 52.9 1749 6.0 9 18 | 38 302 0 |
| 1990 dal | 15 | 226 399 56.6 2579 6.5 11 18 | 40 172 1 |
| 1991 dal | 12 | 237 363 65.3 2754 7.6 11 10 | 16 5 1 |

Steve McNair '95-'97

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1995 hou | 6 | 41 80 51.2 569 7.1 3 1 | 11 38 0 |
| 1996 hou | 10 | 88 143 61.5 1197 8.4 6 4 | 31 169 2 |
| 1997 ten | 16 | 216 415 52.0 2665 6.4 14 13 | 101 674 8 |

Warren Moon '84-'86

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1984 hou | 16 | 259 450 57.6 3338 7.4 12 14 | 58 211 1 |
| 1985 hou | 14 | 200 377 53.1 2709 7.2 15 19 | 39 130 0 |
| 1986 hou | 15 | 256 488 52.5 3489 7.1 13 26 | 42 157 2 |

Joe Namath '65-'67

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1965 nyj | 13 | 164 340 48.2 2220 6.5 18 15 | 8 19 0 |
| 1966 nyj | 14 | 232 471 49.3 3379 7.2 19 27 | 6 42 2 |
| 1967 nyj | 14 | 258 491 52.5 4007 8.2 26 28 | 6 14 0 |

Phil Simms '79-'81

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1979 nyg | 12 | 134 265 50.6 1743 6.6 13 14 | 29 166 1 |
| 1980 nyg | 13 | 193 402 48.0 2321 5.8 15 19 | 36 190 1 |
| 1981 nyg | 10 | 172 316 54.4 2031 6.4 11 9 | 19 42 0 |

Fran Tarkenton '61-'63

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1961 min | 14 | 157 280 56.1 1997 7.1 18 17 | 56 308 5 |
| 1962 min | 14 | 163 329 49.5 2595 7.9 22 25 | 41 361 2 |
| 1963 min | 14 | 170 297 57.2 2311 7.8 15 15 | 28 162 1 |

Steve Young '85-'87

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1985 tam | 5 | 72 138 52.2 935 6.8 3 8 | 40 233 1 |
| 1986 tam | 14 | 195 363 53.7 2282 6.3 8 13 | 74 425 5 |
| 1987 sfo | 8 | 37 69 53.6 570 8.3 10 0 | 26 190 1 |


Not too bad........ I wonder what Joey Harrinton's, Tim Couche's, & Trent Dilfer's numbers look like.

If this prooves we don't need another QB, can I do the same thing with DD to prove we don't need another RB??

TEXANRED
04-21-2006, 09:12 AM
Not too bad........ I wonder what Joey Harrinton's, Tim Couche's, & Trent Dilfer's numbers look like.

If this prooves we don't need another QB, can I do the same thing with DD to prove we don't need another RB??
We don't need another running back. No one is replacing DD simply adding to the arsonal. Hey even Batman had Robin. Pretty soon DD will stand for the Dynamic Duo.

Bobo
04-21-2006, 09:24 AM
We don't need another running back. No one is replacing DD simply adding to the arsonal. Hey even Batman had Robin. Pretty soon DD will stand for the Dynamic Duo.

And they won't have a Batmobile, nor Batgirl, nor Alfred to go with it.

TEXANRED
04-21-2006, 09:29 AM
And they won't have a Batmobile, nor Batgirl, nor Alfred to go with it.
Of course we will. AJ is our Batmobile, Kubiak is our Alfred and we have the hottest cheerleaders in the country so take your pick on who you would like to be batgirl.

TexansLucky13
04-21-2006, 09:40 AM
Of course we will. AJ is our Batmobile, Kubiak is our Alfred and we have the hottest cheerleaders in the country so take your pick on who you would like to be batgirl.

Enough said. :superman:

Joey Harrington and David Carr, by the books, are almost identical. Harrington has more TDs (I believe) but not by much.

I foresee a strong year for Carr next year. I hope Kubiak is the magician everyone hopes he will be. Personally, I think he is showing his magic already.

:twocents:

TwinSisters
04-21-2006, 10:53 AM
Of course we will. AJ is our Batmobile, Kubiak is our Alfred and we have the hottest cheerleaders in the country so take your pick on who you would like to be batgirl.

No. Mathis is the Batgirl.

the wonger need food
04-21-2006, 11:49 AM
Josh Lovelady played ball for the U of H in the 1998 - 2000 time frame and then went on to play for Scottish Claymores (winning all Europe NFL recognition) and then went to Detroit Lions.

This young man has a love of the sport and, with the right coaching and guidance, will make a great NFL offensive lineman.

How do you tell the TEXANS that he is out there?/

Dear Mrs. Lovelady, if your son played football in college and NFLE, every NFL team knows all about him. Here's the contact information Katy Copperheads... http://www.katyprofootball.com/index.php?page=contactus



It's amazing how many Carr threads we've gone thru on this board. His legacy will live on long after he has moved to NY to back up Eli Manning or San Francisco behind Alex Smith, or wherever he ends up.

tsip
04-21-2006, 12:30 PM
This post from '05 started off by comparing Carr's first 3 years in the NFL to some other well known QB's and ended up with posts in '06 still talking about just the first 3 yrs, like year 4 was a mirage. Too, IMO there are a lot of disollutionist out there that think all Carr's problems are the result of bad circumstances around him and these will 'go away' when the circumstances do!! HELL-O. Bill Belichick has talked several times about all the 'obstacles' a team faces each year--injuries,poor play,turnovers,etc.--and makes the point that while each team faces these 'obstacles,' how they deal with them is the key. The Pats do not allow excuses under any circumstance. The Texans? We may not lead the NFL in many positive team categories but-if we are not first in making excuses--like Bum said, "it don't take long to call the roll."

Texans86
04-21-2006, 12:40 PM
This post from '05 started off by comparing Carr's first 3 years in the NFL to some other well known QB's and ended up with posts in '06 still talking about just the first 3 yrs, like year 4 was a mirage. Too, IMO there are a lot of disollutionist out there that think all Carr's problems are the result of bad circumstances around him and these will 'go away' when the circumstances do!! HELL-O. Bill Belichick has talked several times about all the 'obstacles' a team faces each year--injuries,poor play,turnovers,etc.--and makes the point that while each team faces these 'obstacles,' how they deal with them is the key. The Pats do not allow excuses under any circumstance. The Texans? We may not lead the NFL in many positive team categories but-if we are not first in making excuses--like Bum said, "it don't take long to call the roll."

Tom Brady had a little help from his offensive line. He also had a defense that wouldn't lose leads in the fourth quarter. If our defense had held up this season, this would be a different story for Carr. They let J.P. Losman score on them, and if I remember correctly, he didn't score again for like 2 or 3 weeks. He was bad, and we made him look good. Point of View makes a difference.

thunderkyss
04-21-2006, 12:48 PM
Tom Brady had a little help from his offensive line. He also had a defense that wouldn't lose leads in the fourth quarter. If our defense had held up this season, this would be a different story for Carr. They let J.P. Losman score on them, and if I remember correctly, he didn't score again for like 2 or 3 weeks. He was bad, and we made him look good. Point of View makes a difference.

And we let Alex Smith score his only NFL touchdown his Rookie Season....

DominickDavisFan76
04-21-2006, 01:03 PM
I hate bringing this up but.......He made Fitzpatrick look like a pro bowl QB who led his team when they were down by 21.

chuckm
04-21-2006, 01:05 PM
I hate bringing this up but.......He made Fitzpatrick look like a pro bowl QB who led his team when they were down by 21.


Who is he? Carr? Was he supposed to be covering Bruce on the TD pass?