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Hookem Horns
11-28-2008, 11:49 AM
Can Bama still play in the BCS championship game? If not why not? Bama beat Ole Miss, Florida lost to Ole Miss. If head to head doesn't mean as much (as in the case with some with UT/OU) and what each did against a common opponent is more important. Just food for thought.

axman40
11-28-2008, 11:56 AM
I do not think The BCS will want a rematch game be it Bama and Fla or UT and OU!
I think the Championship game will be Bama/Fla vs UT/OU. Unless there are some major upsets this weekend.
:specnatz:

beerlover
11-28-2008, 12:02 PM
sorry USC you got run by the Beavers. end of discussion.

if Bama loses they should face Oklahoma loser against Texas while Florida squares off against the Longhorns winners get their rematch in BCS Championship. pretty simple to me :)

Hookem Horns
11-28-2008, 12:09 PM
My sarcastic point was that many think OU should jump Texas on the fact that Texas lost to TT and OU beat them, head to head be damned. If that same scenario plays out between Bama and Florida with the common opponent of Ole Miss it sounds ridiculous.

bah007
11-28-2008, 12:10 PM
If Bama loses to Florida they go to the Sugar Bowl & probably play Ohio St.

Texas/OU vs. Florida would be the championsip game.

axman40
11-28-2008, 12:26 PM
My sarcastic point was that many think OU should jump Texas on the fact that Texas lost to TT and OU beat them, head to head be damned. If that same scenario plays out between Bama and Florida with the common opponent of Ole Miss it sounds ridiculous.
THe BCS has been and always will be a ridiculous system ,IMO! LET THEM PLAY!
:specnatz:

stingray
11-28-2008, 12:29 PM
My sarcastic point was that many think OU should jump Texas on the fact that Texas lost to TT and OU beat them, head to head be damned. If that same scenario plays out between Bama and Florida with the common opponent of Ole Miss it sounds ridiculous.

If you wanna go by your belief that if both teams have one loss and one beat the other than the team that won should be ahead in the polls, then TT should go over Texas to the BCS Title game.

Hookem Horns
11-28-2008, 12:36 PM
If you wanna go by your belief that if both teams have one loss and one beat the other than the team that won should be ahead in the polls, then TT should go over Texas to the BCS Title game.

Agreed if all is even steven. However because of the system TT is out of the conversation and now ranked 7 due to getting completely blown out by OU. If Texas would have been beaten down by 40 or more points vs Tech they wouldn't be in the conversation either.

However the argument is now between UT and OU.

axman40
11-28-2008, 01:01 PM
Too bad the Big 12 does not take their 2 highest rank teams to the Big 12 Championship Game!
:specnatz:

bah007
11-29-2008, 12:02 AM
If you wanna go by your belief that if both teams have one loss and one beat the other than the team that won should be ahead in the polls, then TT should go over Texas to the BCS Title game.

You can't lose by 44 on a prime time nationally telivised game and still be in the national championship hunt.

mussop
11-29-2008, 07:55 AM
Alabama is a joke at #1 . They wont even be in the national title picture after playing Florida. Hell they migh not even beat Auburn.

YoungTexanFan
11-29-2008, 04:59 PM
Alabama is a joke at #1 . They wont even be in the national title picture after playing Florida. Hell they migh not even beat Auburn.

Not so sure about that, especially the Auburn part. They don't look very good at all. Florida looks above average, but they aren't playing at that elite level from the past few weeks.

eriadoc
11-30-2008, 12:03 AM
Alabama is a joke at #1 . They wont even be in the national title picture after playing Florida. Hell they migh not even beat Auburn.

Alabama has some weaknesses, but they aren't a joke at #1. Their defense is for real, and their running game is for real. I do think Florida is better, but it's not as large a gap as you're suggesting.

YoungTexanFan
11-30-2008, 10:26 AM
I think a good scheme by 'Bama can slow the Urban Myer effect. I think Alabama has an elite level defense that can slow Florida, and if Harvin is out, I think Florida will really struggle with stretching the sidelines. I think this will be a very close game and a very good game.

mussop
11-30-2008, 01:48 PM
Alabama has some weaknesses, but they aren't a joke at #1. Their defense is for real, and their running game is for real. I do think Florida is better, but it's not as large a gap as you're suggesting.

Who have they beat that is good? They havent played against any potent offense. They are overrated bigtime. They should of lost to LSU. LSU played with one of the worst backup QB's I have ever seen (Remember im a long time Oiler fan) and IIRC 2 backup OL the whole second half and still took them to overtime. Kentucky (6 & 6) gave them a good game 17 to 14. What is the worst loss by a #1 team? Florida will win that game by 20+ with or without Harvin.

Ole Miss Texan
11-30-2008, 10:39 PM
Winner of the SEC championship goes to the national championship. Bama/Fla will go. Then that leaves OU if they beat Mizzou. However, if Mizzou pulls the unlikely upset, Texas in the lead to go to the national championship with an outside shot of Southern Cal. Albeit its a smaaaalll shot, USC is still in the picture.

It's a shame Ole Miss couldn't just beat Bama too. :)

mussop
11-30-2008, 10:48 PM
I would settle for adding a one game playoff for co champions. It doesnt happen often but culd you imagine the hype that would be around game. It would be huge. Thats the kind of event that could boost college footballs popularity too unbelievable heights.

bah007
11-30-2008, 10:52 PM
I would settle for adding a one game playoff for co champions. It doesnt happen often but culd you imagine the hype that would be around game. It would be huge. Thats the kind of event that could boost college footballs popularity too unbelievable heights.

What happens to the loser of that game?

In this case, would the 2-loss loser of such a game get into a BCS bowl ahead of a 1-loss team?

mussop
11-30-2008, 11:07 PM
What happens to the loser of that game?

In this case, would the 2-loss loser of such a game get into a BCS bowl ahead of a 1-loss team?

You miss understand, my fualt for lazy typing.:) I mean in the case of 2 teams being voted co champions there should be a final game to decide who the real champion is. The whole idea of co champion is ridiculous.

If te polls are split ther should be one game to decide it all. It happened in 2003 LSU (National Champs)
USC (#1 in AP Poll)

Could you imagine the hype that would be around that game. The buildup could take years and when it finally got here it would be the most talked about event in sports for years.

bah007
11-30-2008, 11:20 PM
You miss understand, my fualt for lazy typing.:) I mean in the case of 2 teams being voted co champions there should be a final game to decide who the real champion is. The whole idea of co champion is ridiculous.

If te polls are split ther should be one game to decide it all. It happened in 2003 LSU (National Champs)
USC (#1 in AP Poll)

Could you imagine the hype that would be around that game. The buildup could take years and when it finally got here it would be the most talked about event in sports for years.

So you mean a plus-one system for the BCS championship?

mussop
11-30-2008, 11:36 PM
So you mean a plus-one system for the BCS championship?yes but only in the case of the polls being split.

bah007
12-01-2008, 12:03 AM
yes but only in the case of the polls being split.

I have a feeling that if that were a bylaw then the voters would make sure that the polls were always split.

If you go that route, you should just do it every year. Have the #1 vs. #2 game then have the winner face the next highest ranked team after the bowl games have been completed.

I think the plus one is actually the next step that will be taken. Hopefully, it will eventually lead to some sort of playoff.

threetoedpete
12-02-2008, 01:28 AM
sorry USC you got run by the Beavers. end of discussion.

if Bama loses they should face Oklahoma loser against Texas while Florida squares off against the Longhorns winners get their rematch in BCS Championship. pretty simple to me :)

I said it in another thread....if Florida wins....and you can already see it in the humane polls....they will jump Texas. Florida will play Oklahoma for the NC. Why ? That's the match up the rest of the country wants. Anybody but Texas.

beerlover
12-02-2008, 10:09 AM
I said it in another thread....if Florida wins....and you can already see it in the humane polls....they will jump Texas. Florida will play Oklahoma for the NC. Why ? That's the match up the rest of the country wants. Anybody but Texas.

Bama vs Gators will rival Horns & Sooners game, winner a virtual lock to play in the BCSG. apparently same cannot be said for Texas who beat Oklahoma on a neutral site :mcnugget: Big 12 dropped the ball with their tie-breaker system. why can't we just get the rematch everyone wants instead of over-matched Mizzou? dumb, dumb, dumb :brickwall:

Ole Miss Texan
12-02-2008, 10:35 AM
Bama vs Gators will rival Horns & Sooners game, winner a virtual lock to play in the BCSG. apparently same cannot be said for Texas who beat Oklahoma on a neutral site :mcnugget: Big 12 dropped the ball with their tie-breaker system. why can't we just get the rematch everyone wants instead of over-matched Mizzou? dumb, dumb, dumb :brickwall:

True, a rematch would be fun to see. Winners of Texas/OU and Bama/Florida meet each other in the championship game. That would basically be a Final Four playoff scenario and one more step towards a playoff system.

I don't give the BCS as much crap as most people. Is it a flawed system? Absolutely, but its darn near the closest thing you can get to when deciding the two best teams besides a playoff. I think 99% of the viewing public would love to see a playoff but its not quite in the cards yet. BCS seems to show some bias to teams like USC or Ohio St. but once we get over ourselves and realize USC is actually a damn strong team... we'll see they do deserve to be in the mix year in and year out even though the play crap teams. The SEC and Big XII have the best teams top to bottom and beat each other up every year. That sux but at least we'll get the two of them playing each other this year.

threetoedpete
12-02-2008, 12:21 PM
Bama vs Gators will rival Horns & Sooners game, winner a virtual lock to play in the BCSG. apparently same cannot be said for Texas who beat Oklahoma on a neutral site :mcnugget: Big 12 dropped the ball with their tie-breaker system. why can't we just get the rematch everyone wants instead of over-matched Mizzou? dumb, dumb, dumb :brickwall:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowlprojection?season=2008&week=14

Well Feldman's guessing just lke the rest of us at this point... the forty acres says yuck.

bah007
12-02-2008, 12:55 PM
If Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas Tech were in any other conference that has a championship game (ACC, C-USA, MAC, SEC) then Texas would have won the tie-breaker.

As it is, for some reason the Big XII has decided to let the polls (voted on by people who can't even watch most of the Big XII games) decide their conference champion.

People want to blame the BCS for this catastrophe, but this lays at the feet of the Big XII. Oklahoma did nothing wrong. We can't blame them. They just benefited from a ludicrous way to break ties.

The real loser is Tech, not Texas. We still get the Fiesta Bowl. Tech will be 11-1 and playing in the Cotton Bowl.

Ole Miss Texan
12-02-2008, 03:26 PM
The real loser is Tech, not Texas. We still get the Fiesta Bowl. Tech will be 11-1 and playing in the Cotton Bowl.

And will get beat down by an 8-4 Ole Miss team. :)

bah007
12-02-2008, 03:30 PM
And will get beat down by an 8-4 Ole Miss team. :)

They did win in the Swamp...

kastofsna
12-02-2008, 08:14 PM
seriously expecting Florida to destroy Alabama. best team this year, not even close

TexanSam
12-03-2008, 05:19 PM
Florida was favored by 10 1/2 when the Las Vegas odds came out. Ridiculous.

mussop
12-04-2008, 12:32 AM
Florida was favored by 10 1/2 when the Las Vegas odds came out. Ridiculous.

That is ridiculous, It should be at least 15.

TexanSam
12-04-2008, 01:19 AM
That is ridiculous, It should be at least 15.

Nah. More like 3

mussop
12-04-2008, 03:03 AM
Nah. More like 3

Ill take that bet!:) Florida will have that covered within the first few minutes. Florida is for real, Alabama = pretendar. their only chance is to control the clock with their runnung game and hope for some turnovers. Aint happenin.

kastofsna
12-04-2008, 07:23 AM
i wouldn't say Alabama is a pretender, they're just not going to beat Florida

beerlover
12-04-2008, 10:27 AM
seriously expecting Florida to destroy Alabama. best team this year, not even close

I'll be brewing a Belgian Strong Dark Saturday. will record the game & watch later. It seems to me your Florida colored glasses are tainting any possiblity of objective viewpoint talent or coaching wise (affixation with Sabin who bailed on your Dolphins).....in any case the trenches will belong to Alabama & thats gotta count for something. the question is will the Gators NFL speed over the top along with Tebows toughness overcome a physical swarming defense best in the nation, period. Alabama holds a 21-13 series lead over Florida in a series that dating back to 1904 but Florida owns the head to head in SEC Championship game 3-2. Should be one hell of a game not a blowout.

bah007
12-04-2008, 11:18 AM
I'll be brewing a Belgian Strong Dark Saturday. will record the game & watch later. It seems to me your Florida colored glasses are tainting any possiblity of objective viewpoint talent or coaching wise (affixation with Sabin who bailed on your Dolphins).....in any case the trenches will belong to Alabama & thats gotta count for something. the question is will the Gators NFL speed over the top along with Tebows toughness overcome a physical swarming defense best in the nation, period. Alabama holds a 21-13 series lead over Florida in a series that dating back to 1904 but Florida owns the head to head in SEC Championship game 3-2. Should be one hell of a game not a blowout.

Alabama is undefeated for a reason.

They aren't the most talented team in the country (honestly, there are at least five that are more talented) but they know what their strengths are and they play to them.

Obviously, they are a well coached team, which gives them a chance to win against anybody.

Florida isn't invincible and their offensive scheme is very predictable to me. Besides Tebow, Harvin is the most important part of that offense. We will see what they can do without him (I think he will miss the game because of a high ankle sprain).

I'm expecting a Florida victory, but I don't think it will be a blowout.

Ole Miss Texan
12-04-2008, 11:52 AM
So I'm just thinking out loud here:
Florida wins and OU wins. = OU/Florida Nat'l Championship

Alabama loses SEC championship, goes to sugar bowl
Texas goes to what Fiesta?

Alabama and Texas both win their bowl games, Florida wins the BCSC game and USC wins whatever joke of a team they play.

Florida would be #1, how would the others play out? I guess it depends on how good each team looks or if alabama barely lost to florida.

Florida
Texas
Alabama
USC
Oklahoma

Not really sure it matters all that much, but I'm having a brain fart. Does this carry over into the start of next season or do they do a new preseason poll?

For example we could have a similar scenario to this year of so many good undefeated/1 loss teams that being ranked #3 preseason vs. #4 could actually have a big impact. Unlikely but just curious anyways.

bah007
12-04-2008, 12:01 PM
So I'm just thinking out loud here:
Florida wins and OU wins. = OU/Florida Nat'l Championship

That's not even actually guaranteed. BCS "analysts" are saying that Florida would have to jump UT & OU to #1 in both human polls to get by Texas in the BCS. I wouldn't take it that far though. It's no guarantee, but I think it is far more likely that Florida vs. OU would be the game.

Alabama loses SEC championship, goes to sugar bowl
Texas goes to what Fiesta?

Texas is in the Fiesta Bowl as long as OU makes the Championship game. If OU loses to Mizzou, Texas is in the championship.

Alabama and Texas both win their bowl games, Florida wins the BCSC game and USC wins whatever joke of a team they play.

USC will be playing Penn St in the Rose Bowl as long as they beat UCLA.

Florida would be #1, how would the others play out? I guess it depends on how good each team looks or if alabama barely lost to florida.

Florida
Texas
Alabama
USC
Oklahoma

If all the games are close I would expect the final ballot to be:

1. Florida (beat OU)
2. Texas (beat Ohio St/Utah)
3. USC (beat Penn St)
4. Alabama (if they beat Ohio St/Utah), Utah (if they beat Texas/Alabama)
5. Texas Tech (if they beat Ole Miss)

Not really sure it matters all that much, but I'm having a brain fart. Does this carry over into the start of next season or do they do a new preseason poll?

Polls don't carry over to next season.

Hookem Horns
12-04-2008, 12:03 PM
How can anyone say that Florida is better than Bama? Alabama beat Ole Miss and Florida lost to them. Even if Florida beats Bama head to head you still have to say Bama is better because of what each did against a common opponent.

Sincerely,

BCS Computer

TexansSeminole
12-04-2008, 12:27 PM
The SEC championship will be all about coaching, not players. If saban doesn't come up with a defensive scheme that can slow florida down bama will lose by more than 2 touchdowns.

Florida beats you with scheme and coaching, has little to do with their players outside of harvin.

Mr teX
12-04-2008, 02:26 PM
The SEC championship will be all about coaching, not players. If saban doesn't come up with a defensive scheme that can slow florida down bama will lose by more than 2 touchdowns.

Florida beats you with scheme and coaching, has little to do with their players outside of harvin.

i disagree. I doubt John Parker Wilson could do what Tebow does for Florida. & i guess brandon james isn't as huge a threat on special teams then either if skill set isn't that special. Meyer has him back there for a reason & it ain't b/c of lack of options. College football is all about the caliber of players u have.

Plus Meyers' gimmick offense is all about the type players he has to run it & what skill sets they have. You can't tell me that the zone read play they run with Harvin/Demps/Rainey would be as successful if it were used with a slow qb like sam bradford. He's good in his own right, just not the type of qb he would need for that system. Tebow & how great a runner he is is what makes that work. It was the same thing with VY when he was at UT.


The jump passes & bull in a china shop running mentality of Tebow are as much responsible for making Florida the contender that it is as Meyer's ability to coach & scheme his opponents.

Ole Miss Texan
12-04-2008, 02:38 PM
That's not even actually guaranteed. BCS "analysts" are saying that Florida would have to jump UT & OU to #1 in both human polls to get by Texas in the BCS. I wouldn't take it that far though. It's no guarantee, but I think it is far more likely that Florida vs. OU would be the game.

But if #2 OU beats Mizzou, they go. If #4 Florida beats #1 Alabama, both have one loss and FL wins the head to head + its the last game of the season so Fla would jump Bama. They wouldn't necessarily have to jump ahead of #3 Texas (which the would anyways) because the BCS championship game can't be Bix XII vs. Big XII (ie two teams from the same conference)... or can it? But if each team has 1 loss, albeit UT's was a last second play against a highly ranked opponent and Fla's was a very close game against an unranked yet underrated Ole Miss team... i still think Fla would jump way up with it being SO late in the season and against the #1 team in the nation that's undefeated.

How can anyone say that Florida is better than Bama? Alabama beat Ole Miss and Florida lost to them. Even if Florida beats Bama head to head you still have to say Bama is better because of what each did against a common opponent.

Sincerely,

BCS Computer

I'm not a big fan of looking at common opponents. Alabama and Florida are two completely different types of teams. It's all about the matchup. That's why some teams can beat a highly ranked team but still lose to a "lesser" team- matchup.

That'd be like saying the Oakland Raiders are better than the Tennessee Titans. Titans lost to the Jets and the Raiders beat the Jets. Dang computers.

TexansSeminole
12-04-2008, 02:40 PM
College football is all about the caliber of players u have.

Could not disagree more with you. Unless you have a superstar that can take over a game, it is almost ALL about coaching IMO.

It's been proven time and time again.

Plus Meyers' gimmick offense is all about the type players he has to run it & what skill sets they have. You can't tell me that the zone read play they run with Harvin/Demps/Rainey would be as successful if it were used with a slow qb like sam bradford. He's good in his own right, just not the type of qb he would need for that system. Tebow & how great a runner he is is what makes that work. It was the same thing with VY when he was at UT.


Urban Meyer recruits the right type of players, yes. He is the one that puts them in the position to make plays. That's part of the scheme. Fast players to and up the sideline.

I said they beat you because of scheme and coaching, and you went off on a you can't tell me their speed doesn't help argument. That's part of the scheme. The scheme doesn't work unless you have fast players to push the edges of the defense.

Regarding the bolded, you can say that about every scheme. That's the point. You get the players that can run your scheme.

My point was that you won't see a player on Florida dominate the game outside of Harvin based on pure ability. Their success results from coaching and how Urban Meyer puts his guys in positions to make plays. In other words, the Florida players aren't better than the Bama players, but when you look at scheme vs. scheme you can easily see that Saban will have to prepare his defense very well to win the game.

Tebow being a great runner is not what makes the offense work. Could not disagree more with you. Alex Smith ran just as well as Tebow did when he was at Utah. Stats were very similiar, he just doesn't have the size and power that Tebow has. The scheme pushes the defense to the sideline therefore opening holes up the middle. Have you not been watching Urban Meyer's teams over the last 7 or so years?

What makes the Florida offense go is the scheme and speed of the players to and up the sideline. Very simple to see that IMO.

I also don't get the comparison between VY and Tebow. The schemes were very different IMO, and VY just scrambled most of the time. Alot of Tebow's runs are called runs to spread the defense out even more, and open up the plays to the outside.


The jump passes & bull in a china shop running mentality of Tebow are as much responsible for making Florida the contender that it is as Meyer's ability to coach & scheme his opponents.

Ha what a joke.

Urban Meyer has a 79-17 coaching record. Not to mention he has THE best offensive scheme in college football hands down.

What in the world are you talking about?

bah007
12-04-2008, 04:31 PM
But if #2 OU beats Mizzou, they go. If #4 Florida beats #1 Alabama, both have one loss and FL wins the head to head + its the last game of the season so Fla would jump Bama. They wouldn't necessarily have to jump ahead of #3 Texas (which the would anyways) because the BCS championship game can't be Bix XII vs. Big XII (ie two teams from the same conference)... or can it? But if each team has 1 loss, albeit UT's was a last second play against a highly ranked opponent and Fla's was a very close game against an unranked yet underrated Ole Miss team... i still think Fla would jump way up with it being SO late in the season and against the #1 team in the nation that's undefeated...

Yes the championship game could be Big XII vs. Big XII.

That wasn't even my opinion. It's just a fact of the BCS computers. Florida is #6 in the computers. Texas is #2.

Florida beating Alabama would only move them up to #3 in the computers. So they would either have to move up to #1 in the human polls or they would have to be a "strong" #2 over Texas in both polls.

As I said, I think Florida will be far enough ahead in the human polls to make the championship game against OU. But there is the small possibility (I would say less than 10%) that Florida winning the SEC pushes Texas into the championship vs. OU.

Ole Miss Texan
12-04-2008, 04:45 PM
Yes the championship game could be Big XII vs. Big XII.

That wasn't even my opinion. It's just a fact of the BCS computers. Florida is #6 in the computers. Texas is #2.

Florida beating Alabama would only move them up to #3 in the computers. So they would either have to move up to #1 in the human polls or they would have to be a "strong" #2 over Texas in both polls.

As I said, I think Florida will be far enough ahead in the human polls to make the championship game against OU. But there is the small possibility (I would say less than 10%) that Florida winning the SEC pushes Texas into the championship vs. OU.

Gotcha, very insightful. For some reason I thought two teams from the same conference couldn't play against each other... I'm way too young to be losing my memory. :)

bah007
12-04-2008, 04:51 PM
Gotcha, very insightful. For some reason I thought two teams from the same conference couldn't play against each other... I'm way too young to be losing my memory. :)

Well the BCS was put together so that #1 vs. #2 could play on a neutral field.

I would rather the Big XII bowl eligible teams and the SEC eligible teams all play each other. That could settle the "which conference is better this year" argument.

Mr teX
12-04-2008, 05:35 PM
Could not disagree more with you. Unless you have a superstar that can take over a game, it is almost ALL about coaching IMO.

It's been proven time and time again.



Urban Meyer recruits the right type of players, yes. He is the one that puts them in the position to make plays. That's part of the scheme. Fast players to and up the sideline.

I said they beat you because of scheme and coaching, and you went off on a you can't tell me their speed doesn't help argument. That's part of the scheme. The scheme doesn't work unless you have fast players to push the edges of the defense.

Regarding the bolded, you can say that about every scheme. That's the point. You get the players that can run your scheme.

My point was that you won't see a player on Florida dominate the game outside of Harvin based on pure ability. Their success results from coaching and how Urban Meyer puts his guys in positions to make plays. In other words, the Florida players aren't better than the Bama players, but when you look at scheme vs. scheme you can easily see that Saban will have to prepare his defense very well to win the game.

Tebow being a great runner is not what makes the offense work. Could not disagree more with you. Alex Smith ran just as well as Tebow did when he was at Utah. Stats were very similiar, he just doesn't have the size and power that Tebow has. The scheme pushes the defense to the sideline therefore opening holes up the middle. Have you not been watching Urban Meyer's teams over the last 7 or so years?

What makes the Florida offense go is the scheme and speed of the players to and up the sideline. Very simple to see that IMO.

I also don't get the comparison between VY and Tebow. The schemes were very different IMO, and VY just scrambled most of the time. Alot of Tebow's runs are called runs to spread the defense out even more, and open up the plays to the outside.



Ha what a joke.

Urban Meyer has a 79-17 coaching record. Not to mention he has THE best offensive scheme in college football hands down.

What in the world are you talking about?

Could not disagree more with you. Unless you have a superstar that can take over a game, it is almost ALL about coaching IMO.

Yeah on the lower levels of college football it might be. But most coaches in the upper ecehlon of college football will tell u that the athletes make all the difference, otherwise, why spend all that time recruiting the top guys if it didn't matter that much.


It's been proven time and time again.





Urban Meyer recruits the right type of players, yes. He is the one that puts them in the position to make plays. That's part of the scheme. Fast players to and up the sideline.

I said they beat you because of scheme and coaching, and you went off on a you can't tell me their speed doesn't help argument. That's part of the scheme. The scheme doesn't work unless you have fast players to push the edges of the defense.

Exactly...his scheme is nothing without the speedy players in place.

Regarding the bolded, you can say that about every scheme. That's the point. You get the players that can run your scheme.

My point was that you won't see a player on Florida dominate the game outside of Harvin based on pure ability. Their success results from coaching and how Urban Meyer puts his guys in positions to make plays. In other words, the Florida players aren't better than the Bama players, but when you look at scheme vs. scheme you can easily see that Saban will have to prepare his defense very well to win the game.

All this means is that he calls a balanced game. He can "position" his guys to make plays all he wants, all coaches in all sports try to do that. The fact that plays are being made is all on the player regardless of the defense & situation, not the coach or his scheme.


Tebow being a great runner is not what makes the offense work. Could not disagree more with you. Alex Smith ran just as well as Tebow did when he was at Utah. Stats were very similiar, he just doesn't have the size and power that Tebow has. The scheme pushes the defense to the sideline therefore opening holes up the middle. Have you not been watching Urban Meyer's teams over the last 7 or so years?

Is that not part of what makes a player special though? The fact that the guy has those attributes & can run the ball like any of the RB's maximizes what his scheme is able to accomplish. Yeah, it's designed to stretch the defense sideline to sideline, but if the defense doesn't respect both athletes (rb/qb) equally it will not work. Or if the player can't break a damn tackle..again it's not gonna work. As it is with florida now & that zone read, you have to respect both guys. Having superior athletes to execute it is the chief reason certain offenses work in college so well but not in the pros, b/c on that level everyone's fast & everyone's good. His is one of those that works well in college b/c of that precise reason.


What makes the Florida offense go is the scheme and speed of the players to and up the sideline. Very simple to see that IMO.

You're right it is easy to see as far as speed goes but that's attributed to the player & makes almost every scheme look better than it is, the exception being smash mouth pittsburgh steeler like offense.


I also don't get the comparison between VY and Tebow. The schemes were very different IMO, and VY just scrambled most of the time. Alot of Tebow's runs are called runs to spread the defense out even more, and open up the plays to the outside.

It doesn't matter whether a run is called for that player or not, it's the fact that that player's attributes give him the ability to turn a 3 yd. run/scramble into a 10 or more yd. run/scramble like both of the guys do/did; Again, any coach will tell u that that kind of potential makes a huge difference. It also doesn't matter that the schemes were a bit different..the objective was the same: spread the defense out & try to create some running lanes to run the ball while mixing in a little pass.



Ha what a joke.

Urban Meyer has a 79-17 coaching record. Not to mention he has THE best offensive scheme in college football hands down.

I guess it's Meyer's scheme that has tebow out there running over Lb's & Harvin/Demps/Rainey juking the hell out of defenders. The scheme helps, but the players make plays & almost every coach in the world, espcially in college football is gonna tell u that that makes the biggest difference in the end.


What in the world are you talking about?


Seems to me our differences lie in what we both define as scheme. I'm thinking purely X's & O's & chalk talk & it seems to me you're including everything needed to run a certain scheme. So...... speed is integral to his scheme...big whoop. It's part of every coache's with more emphasis for it in 1 area or another. So the question is, do you honestly believe that his play calling is the chief thing that sets them apart from everyone else?

TexansSeminole
12-04-2008, 09:39 PM
So the question is, do you honestly believe that his play calling is the chief thing that sets them apart from everyone else?

Yes, by far I do. It's not so much the playcalling as it is the scheme in general, and his ability to coach that scheme.

You spend all the time recruiting to put yourselves in the best position to win and to get the players that work for YOUR scheme. Remember when Urban Meyer said "I want to have the fastest team in college football." That's what he recruits, speed, because that's what his scheme entails, speed.

When a guy gets the ball 3 seconds after the ball is snapped and there are 1 maybe 2 guys in position to make a play and 1 is the safety and you have a guy with 4.3 speed it's very hard to defend. That's what his scheme is designed to do. Make it easy on the QB and get the ball out of his hands quickly and into the hands of your speed guys.

He makes you spread your defense out then he hits you up the middle with Tebow, who is a very good runner. Don't get me wrong I understand that Tebow is a great runner but it isn't what makes the offense work. Not at all.


It's not only a game of pick your poison with the QB/RB. He makes you respect receivers on both sides of the field and the misdirection with the RB/QB. They may run a play where he fakes to Rainey on an end around, then Tebow fakes a run up the middle, and quickly turns and throws to the other side of the field to Harvin. In order to stop this play you are going to need atleast 3 guys in position to make the tackle on Rainey and Harvin or your toast due to speed. It's very hard to have 3 guys in position to make a tackle on one sideline AND 3 guys in position to make a tackle on the other sideline. Not to mention you have to worry about the 240 lb QB running up the middle. Then they run the same play over and over again yet the ball ends up in the hands of a different guy. What ends up happening is the defense gambles because they can't possible cover every possiblity and expect to win. Eventually you will gamble and lose, and when you do you are dead. That's why they have so many big plays.

And then if you want to blitz, Urban Meyer is very good at making adjustments, and he can really burn you. If you show where your going to blitz from before the snap, your already dead.

To me, that is scheme. The fact that Rainey runs a 4.3 doesn't make him a great or special player, but in Urban Meyer's offense it makes him very dangerous when added to other guys with speed. I attribute that to scheme.

When you've got a guy that runs a 4.3, your probably not going to get him down with the first defender, doesn't matter how good the player is, just how speed works. That's what Urban's system takes advantage of.

I do agree that Tebow's running ability adds another dangerous element to their offense but it is not what makes their offense go.

When you watch the SEC championship game count how many throws you think are difficult. IMO Tebow's biggest downside as a pro prospect isn't his ability, it is that he isn't challenged due to scheme. He isn't asked to make difficult after difficult throw. Something that you will HAVE to be able to do as an NFL QB. Just like bad OL can ruin a QB, being spoiled with easy throws can limit your progression as a QB.

That's essentially why I think Tebow should come out now, because he isn't progressing as a pro prospect in that UF offense. Add that with the situation in NFL coaching now where you could be done after 1 year. Who is going to take a QB in the first round or two that may need 3 or 4 years of time in the NFL to get where a QB that ran a pro-style scheme in college is? I wouldn't because by the time he came around, I probably wouldn't be the head coach.

Just my opinion.

beerlover
12-04-2008, 10:27 PM
I think its more about the coaches/alums ability to recruit players who fit the scheme which in Floridas case are the fastest, most athletic of the bunch.

kastofsna
12-05-2008, 12:26 AM
Florida has ridiculous athletes at every single position. and an excellent coaching staff.

Mr teX
12-05-2008, 12:57 AM
Yes, by far I do. It's not so much the playcalling as it is the scheme in general, and his ability to coach that scheme.

You spend all the time recruiting to put yourselves in the best position to win and to get the players that work for YOUR scheme. Remember when Urban Meyer said "I want to have the fastest team in college football." That's what he recruits, speed, because that's what his scheme entails, speed.

When a guy gets the ball 3 seconds after the ball is snapped and there are 1 maybe 2 guys in position to make a play and 1 is the safety and you have a guy with 4.3 speed it's very hard to defend. That's what his scheme is designed to do. Make it easy on the QB and get the ball out of his hands quickly and into the hands of your speed guys.

He makes you spread your defense out then he hits you up the middle with Tebow, who is a very good runner. Don't get me wrong I understand that Tebow is a great runner but it isn't what makes the offense work. Not at all.


It's not only a game of pick your poison with the QB/RB. He makes you respect receivers on both sides of the field and the misdirection with the RB/QB. They may run a play where he fakes to Rainey on an end around, then Tebow fakes a run up the middle, and quickly turns and throws to the other side of the field to Harvin. In order to stop this play you are going to need atleast 3 guys in position to make the tackle on Rainey and Harvin or your toast due to speed. It's very hard to have 3 guys in position to make a tackle on one sideline AND 3 guys in position to make a tackle on the other sideline. Not to mention you have to worry about the 240 lb QB running up the middle. Then they run the same play over and over again yet the ball ends up in the hands of a different guy. What ends up happening is the defense gambles because they can't possible cover every possiblity and expect to win. Eventually you will gamble and lose, and when you do you are dead. That's why they have so many big plays.

And then if you want to blitz, Urban Meyer is very good at making adjustments, and he can really burn you. If you show where your going to blitz from before the snap, your already dead.

To me, that is scheme. The fact that Rainey runs a 4.3 doesn't make him a great or special player, but in Urban Meyer's offense it makes him very dangerous when added to other guys with speed. I attribute that to scheme.

When you've got a guy that runs a 4.3, your probably not going to get him down with the first defender, doesn't matter how good the player is, just how speed works. That's what Urban's system takes advantage of.

I do agree that Tebow's running ability adds another dangerous element to their offense but it is not what makes their offense go.

When you watch the SEC championship game count how many throws you think are difficult. IMO Tebow's biggest downside as a pro prospect isn't his ability, it is that he isn't challenged due to scheme. He isn't asked to make difficult after difficult throw. Something that you will HAVE to be able to do as an NFL QB. Just like bad OL can ruin a QB, being spoiled with easy throws can limit your progression as a QB.

That's essentially why I think Tebow should come out now, because he isn't progressing as a pro prospect in that UF offense. Add that with the situation in NFL coaching now where you could be done after 1 year. Who is going to take a QB in the first round or two that may need 3 or 4 years of time in the NFL to get where a QB that ran a pro-style scheme in college is? I wouldn't because by the time he came around, I probably wouldn't be the head coach.

Just my opinion.


we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Urban Meyer is a great coach & this is no slight on him by any means, but i doubt he has the same success he's enjoyed thus far at Florida if he has the same caliber of athletes he had at Utah or Bowling green. he might pull off an upset here & there, but he would've lost way more than 6 games in 3 years at florida if he couldn't recruit exceptional athletes to help take his scheme to championship contender status. Tebow, Rainey, Harvin & Demps make plays consistently not b/c of his scheme, but b/c they are great players & were top recruits & thus would've flourished anywhere regardless. meyer's ability as a coach can't underscore that.

Alex Smith had a great jr. year at utah but they played noone & statistically, his stats from that year weren't really close to Tebow's 2007 campaign....especially in the run game. the only reason why florida didn't contend that year was b/c they were young & ran into 2 teams stacked just like them in LSU & Georgia...tis life in the SEC. Tebow might not be making difficult throws, but he's making them & the easiest plays are sometimes the hardest to make.

defenses always catch up to offenses due to scouting & film study, so in the end all a coach can do is put his players in the best possible position to succeed & hope his athletes make more plays than his opponents', especially in a conference like the SEC. Put simply, scheme often becomes secondary... it really comes down to your players making plays for you, & speed alone isn't the only factor.

Meyer's no fool, he knows the range of talents he has. They're all fast they only split carries b/c 1 guy might have an attribute that's a little bit better than the other for a particular play. Meyer does well to look for ways to get them on the field together & in space but so does Pete Carroll, Mack Brown & any coach with an exorbitant amount of talented guys. That's just a basic prinicple that more playmakers in use/on the field increases the potential for more big plays & goes for any scheme. But the thing that puts that offense over the top though is Tebow & what he's capable of in the running & passing game.

Ole Miss Texan
12-05-2008, 11:30 AM
Well the BCS was put together so that #1 vs. #2 could play on a neutral field.

I would rather the Big XII bowl eligible teams and the SEC eligible teams all play each other. That could settle the "which conference is better this year" argument.

That's how I feel too. I think Alabama or Florida could easily beat Texas or OU. But at the same time, TX and OU could easily beat Bama and FL. No matter who wins this year, I think Big XII had the better overall conference. The South division was insane.

I think my favorite matchup would be Texas vs. Alabama. That would be a game I'd really like to see.

Goldensilence
12-05-2008, 11:41 AM
That's how I feel too. I think Alabama or Florida could easily beat Texas or OU. But at the same time, TX and OU could easily beat Bama and FL. No matter who wins this year, I think Big XII had the better overall conference. The South division was insane.

I think my favorite matchup would be Texas vs. Alabama. That would be a game I'd really like to see.

My only thing about an Alabama vs Texas game is I think the defenses match well but I think the offenses are light years apart. John Parker Wilson vs Colt McCoy isn't much of a matchup IMO. It would be how long can the Alabama D hold out and hope their offense puts points on the board.

The Florida matchup will be a pretty good indicator if Bama can contain a high powered offense.

TexansSeminole
12-05-2008, 11:46 AM
Alex Smith had a great jr. year at utah but they played noone & statistically, his stats from that year weren't really close to Tebow's 2007 campaign....especially in the run game.

Alex Smith's junior year:

13 games: 214 completions 317 attempts 67.5% 2952 yards 9.3 YPA 32 TDS 4 INTs

135 rushes 631 yards 4.67 YPC 10 TDs

Tim Tebow's 2007 year:

13 games: 234 completions 350 attempts 66.9% 3286 yards 9.4 YPA 32 TDs 6 INTs

210 rushes 895 yards 4.3 YPC 23 TDs

"Weren't really close" is not just wrong but dead wrong. They are very close. Outside of rushing TDs. Perhaps this is so because Tim Tebow was Florida's goal line back in 2007? He still is this year. Alex Smith actually gained more yards per carry.

Again it's scheme.

But we should just agree to disagree because this isn't going anywhere.

Mr teX
12-05-2008, 11:56 AM
Alex Smith's junior year:

13 games: 214 completions 317 attempts 67.5% 2952 yards 9.3 YPA 32 TDS 4 INTs

135 rushes 631 yards 4.67 YPC 10 TDs

Tim Tebow's 2007 year:

13 games: 234 completions 350 attempts 66.9% 3286 yards 9.4 YPA 32 TDs 6 INTs

210 rushes 895 yards 4.3 YPC 23 TDs

"Weren't really close" is not just wrong but dead wrong. They are very close. Outside of rushing TDs. Perhaps this is so because Tim Tebow was Florida's goal line back in 2007? He still is this year. Alex Smith actually gained more yards per carry.

Again it's scheme.

But we should just agree to disagree because this isn't going anywhere.

i hear ya...

Just ask yourself why Meyer chose to risk his qb's health & let him be the goaline offense in the 1st place even though Harvin, James, Caldwell & Rainey were there. There's only really 1 logical conclusion & that's b/c he knows how special a player he is.

TexansSeminole
12-05-2008, 12:02 PM
i hear ya...

Just ask yourself why Meyer chose to risk his qb's health & let him be the goaline offense in the 1st place even though Harvin, James, Caldwell & Rainey were there. There's only really 1 logical conclusion & that's b/c he knows how special a player he is.

Because he is 240 pounds, bigger than most linebackers. If you run your 240 pound quarterback up the middle from the 4 yard line he is going to get in, wither it be on the first, second, or third carry. Plus they have to worry about the jump pass that Urban Meyer could call.

Mr teX
12-05-2008, 12:18 PM
Because he is 240 pounds, bigger than most linebackers. If you run your 240 pound quarterback up the middle from the 4 yard line he is going to get in, wither it be on the first, second, or third carry. Plus they have to worry about the jump pass that Urban Meyer could call.

Translation: b/c he's a special player with special qualities for a qb. The jump pass only works b/c of Tebow's ability to run the ball scaring the hell out of defenses. I 'm with u as far as his prospects for the pro game, But there's a reason he was the #1 recruit in the nation coming out of high school....

TexansSeminole
12-05-2008, 12:34 PM
Translation: b/c he's a special player with special qualities for a qb. The jump pass only works b/c of Tebow's ability to run the ball scaring the hell out of defenses. I 'm with u as far as his prospects for the pro game, But there's a reason he was the #1 recruit in the nation coming out of high school....

:gun:

Rep for the good debate.

Mr teX
12-05-2008, 04:32 PM
:gun:

Rep for the good debate.

Lol, round & round we go... but in all honesty I know how hard it is for u as a seminole fan to give a gator player props for anything... Me being a sooner fan, I felt the same way around 2005 with VY & the longhorns...

bah007
12-05-2008, 06:03 PM
Lol, round & round we go... but in all honesty I know how hard it is for u as a seminole fan to give a gator player props for anything... Me being a sooner fan, I felt the same way around 2008 with Colt & the Longhorns...

Fixed it.

Just playin with ya Tex...

kastofsna
12-06-2008, 07:15 PM
Tebow has just been fantastic tonight. has my vote for the Heisman

axman40
12-06-2008, 07:29 PM
Tebow has just been fantastic tonight. has my vote for the Heisman
Let's see how Bradford does tonight but Tebow IS GREAT!!
:cool:

Mr teX
12-06-2008, 07:49 PM
Fixed it.

Just playin with ya Tex...

Ha! yeah i guess that fits too. I'm curious to find out what Texan Seminole thought about Tebow's performance tonight.

Difficult throws?...check.

extending drives with athletic ability?...check.

Leading his team from behind to victory?...check.

Players make plays.

eriadoc
12-06-2008, 07:57 PM
Alabama is a joke at #1 . They wont even be in the national title picture after playing Florida. Hell they migh not even beat Auburn.

Alabama has some weaknesses, but they aren't a joke at #1. Their defense is for real, and their running game is for real. I do think Florida is better, but it's not as large a gap as you're suggesting.

Who have they beat that is good? They havent played against any potent offense. They are overrated bigtime. They should of lost to LSU. LSU played with one of the worst backup QB's I have ever seen (Remember im a long time Oiler fan) and IIRC 2 backup OL the whole second half and still took them to overtime. Kentucky (6 & 6) gave them a good game 17 to 14. What is the worst loss by a #1 team? Florida will win that game by 20+ with or without Harvin.

I guess I stand by what I said.

kastofsna
12-06-2008, 10:47 PM
great

Hookem Horns
12-06-2008, 11:01 PM
I still think Bama is better than Florida and should be ranked higher. You have to look at how each team fared against a common opponent, that is much more important than head to head.

Sincerely,

BCS Computers & OU

awtysst
12-06-2008, 11:19 PM
I still think Bama is better than Florida and should be ranked higher. You have to look at how each team fared against a common opponent, that is much more important than head to head.

Sincerely,

BCS Computers & OU

See that would be hilarious if the BCS has OU at 1 and Bama at 2!

Mr teX
12-06-2008, 11:35 PM
I still think Bama is better than Florida and should be ranked higher. You have to look at how each team fared against a common opponent, that is much more important than head to head.

Sincerely,

BCS Computers & OU

It wasn't the BCS computers that did u guys in. look no further than Mack Brown & his peers in the polls &...............the Big 12 conference.

Hookem Horns
12-06-2008, 11:50 PM
It wasn't the BCS computers that did u guys in. look no further than Mack Brown & his peers in the polls &...............the Big 12 conference.

No, it was the computers that ranked OU over Texas. Texas had the human voters probably because of the head to head factor.

Mr teX
12-07-2008, 12:40 AM
No, it was the computers that ranked OU over Texas. Texas had the human voters probably because of the head to head factor.

No...after OU beat Tech, the human voters vaulted OU over texas in nearly every major poll for wk. 13 off of their win against tech. This is where they made their most significant jump. Wk. 14 rolled around & Texas regained a slim margin back over OU in the AP & Harris, but the USA today coaches poll still left OU ahead of Texas by 1 pt.

The computers only take into account strength of schedule, record vs. ranked opponents, margin of victory etc. & all they did was balance out once OU played their gauntlet of tough opponents. That was really the main reason UT held a huge lead over OU when the 1st couple of BCS rankings came out in wk. 6-8.....b/c they got their gauntlet 1st. The win over OU helped them out a bit more but was nullified when they lost to tech. The BCS computer rankings reflect the order in which the gauntlets were played in the big 12. Texas, then tech, then OU. It basically came down to who played the gauntlet last once every team lost a game.

mussop
12-07-2008, 07:39 AM
I guess I stand by what I said.

Florida might not have covered my 20 points but they did win by double digits while playing without Harvin their most explosive and dynamic player. Which I said wouldnt matter:). I was wrong about that. They did actually play better than I thought they would. I watched the game while I ws at work so no sound and missed alot. They seemed to be wearing down Floridas defense and instead of running the ball down Floridas throats the decided to get fancy and throw the ball. Strange! I cant imagine a coach of Sabins caliber making that mistake. I guess ill find out watch the recording.

Anyway you were right and I was wrong, they werent a joke. I stilll feel they shoudnt of been #1 though. When you look at the schedule Texas. TT and Oklahoma played there is no comparison. They should of been 4th or 5th at best. Oh well this whole dissagreement just goes to show how people can have a totally different outlook on things. A championship should be decided
by head to head, not someones opinion or a freakin formula.

Hookem Horns
12-07-2008, 10:20 AM
No...after OU beat Tech, the human voters vaulted OU over texas in nearly every major poll for wk. 13 off of their win against tech. This is where they made their most significant jump. Wk. 14 rolled around & Texas regained a slim margin back over OU in the AP & Harris, but the USA today coaches poll still left OU ahead of Texas by 1 pt.

The computers only take into account strength of schedule, record vs. ranked opponents, margin of victory etc. & all they did was balance out once OU played their gauntlet of tough opponents. That was really the main reason UT held a huge lead over OU when the 1st couple of BCS rankings came out in wk. 6-8.....b/c they got their gauntlet 1st. The win over OU helped them out a bit more but was nullified when they lost to tech. The BCS computer rankings reflect the order in which the gauntlets were played in the big 12. Texas, then tech, then OU. It basically came down to who played the gauntlet last once every team lost a game.


However the following week when Texas beat A&M the human voters put Texas back ahead of OU because of the head to head factor. The computers were the ones that vaulted OU back over Texas because they don't consider head to head. It was clearly the opposite of the previous week.

Mr teX
12-07-2008, 10:27 AM
However the following week when Texas beat A&M the human voters put Texas back ahead of OU because of the head to head factor. The computers were the ones that vaulted OU back over Texas because they don't consider head to head. It was clearly the opposite of the previous week.

.........

Mr teX
12-07-2008, 10:48 AM
However the following week when Texas beat A&M the human voters put Texas back ahead of OU because of the head to head factor. The computers were the ones that vaulted OU back over Texas because they don't consider head to head. It was clearly the opposite of the previous week.

hey, look at it how u must, but UT didn't have the voters locked as you claim.

The coaches & harris polls are the only polls that matter for the BCS formula.

After the A&M game, the voters in the harris did put UT back ahead of OU. But the coaches poll did not & that allowed OU to keep the ground they'd made up on UT in the BCS rankings. Since OU had already played there last 2 major games you have to figure that the reason OU went back over UT in the BCS standings was b/c UT did not have the polls.

TexansSeminole
12-07-2008, 11:12 AM
Ha! yeah i guess that fits too. I'm curious to find out what Texan Seminole thought about Tebow's performance tonight.


I thought Tebow had the best game of his career. Maybe not stat wise, but just playing the QB position. He made some great throws. His first TD I thought could have gotten picked but he put it in a good position for his WR to have a better shot at it. He was a bit inaccurate at times, but I still think he had a great game and the best of his career. This reinforces my belief that he should come out this year, barring what happens in the national championship game.

I thought that Florida's offense missed Percy Harvin desperately.

It will be very exciting to see that Oklahoma defense play against Florida's offense. They were doing a pretty darn good job last night against Missouri's spread. Their positioning before the snap is right on IMO.

eriadoc
12-07-2008, 12:38 PM
Florida might not have covered my 20 points but they did win by double digits while playing without Harvin their most explosive and dynamic player. Which I said wouldnt matter:). I was wrong about that. They did actually play better than I thought they would. I watched the game while I ws at work so no sound and missed alot. They seemed to be wearing down Floridas defense and instead of running the ball down Floridas throats the decided to get fancy and throw the ball. Strange! I cant imagine a coach of Sabins caliber making that mistake. I guess ill find out watch the recording.

Anyway you were right and I was wrong, they werent a joke. I stilll feel they shoudnt of been #1 though. When you look at the schedule Texas. TT and Oklahoma played there is no comparison. They should of been 4th or 5th at best. Oh well this whole dissagreement just goes to show how people can have a totally different outlook on things. A championship should be decided
by head to head, not someones opinion or a freakin formula.

I thought Florida was the better team as well, but I have watched every Alabama game this year, and they're a good team. I was OK with them being #1 as long as they were undefeated, because I knew they'd have to play Fla. in the SEC championship.

If they hadn't abandoned their running game quite so much, they might have kept it even closer. But the better team won. I'll be interested to see if Fox gets their wish of UT and Bama. I'm not sure which is the better team there.

kastofsna
12-08-2008, 11:44 AM
i know the SEC is having a down year, but because that happens, suddenly everyone immediately starts calling it a terrible conference. it's funny. a conference filled with teams loaded with talent and good coaching doesn't turn horrendous overnight. still plenty of talent, still plenty of great defenses (FAR better than the Big XII), and still good enough to warrant Alabama being #1 after going the regular season undefeated

Goldensilence
12-08-2008, 12:07 PM
i know the SEC is having a down year, but because that happens, suddenly everyone immediately starts calling it a terrible conference. it's funny. a conference filled with teams loaded with talent and good coaching doesn't turn horrendous overnight. still plenty of talent, still plenty of great defenses (FAR better than the Big XII), and still good enough to warrant Alabama being #1 after going the regular season undefeated

Don't see anyone calling the SEC a joke or a terrible conference. Just is having a bit of a down year and the Big 12 south was incredibly strong this year making the conference catch up with the SEC this year.

I'm not going as far as saying the defenses in the SEC are overrated but they can be skewed in that other then Florida I don't see an SEC offense that can compare to a Big 12 offense. I don't think the defenses in the BIg 12 are as terrible as there are some QBs there that run their offenses to perfection.

I think Tebow is an interesting prospect. His passing proficiency increased this year and he looks much closer to a QB then an athlete playing QB. This year is when he's got to decide if it's the money or if he wants to be good at the next level. If it's the money then this is the perfect year for him to declare. Easily next QB taken after Stafford. If he wants a shot at being good at the pro level, he stays another year and works on his passing game.

kastofsna
12-08-2008, 12:21 PM
it's one of those snake-eating-its-own-tail things, or maybe a chicken-or-the-egg thing: is the defense so good because the offense so bad, or is the offense so good because the defense is so bad, or the other way around, etc. you can make a case for either one being a huge factor for the high rankings of the offenses or defenses. to me it's pretty simple: year in and year out, the SEC has high ranked defenses, and a high-ranked defense pretty much will always stifle any sort of decent offense when it matters most, especially if it's an offense built on finesse and passing and less on physicality and running the ball downhill. athletic defenses find a way to screw up the rhythm of a great passing game: they get pressure on the QB, they disrupt the receivers' routes, they create turnovers...and meanwhile, on the other side of the ball, Florida has a great offense, and OU's defense is highly suspect, so things can get ugly fast. so i'm pretty much predicting a repeat of the Florida/Ohio State championship.

Mr teX
12-08-2008, 12:27 PM
it's one of those snake-eating-its-own-tail things, or maybe a chicken-or-the-egg thing: is the defense so good because the offense so bad, or is the offense so good because the defense is so bad, or the other way around, etc. you can make a case for either one being a huge factor for the high rankings of the offenses or defenses. to me it's pretty simple: year in and year out, the SEC has high ranked defenses, and a high-ranked defense pretty much will always stifle any sort of decent offense when it matters most, especially if it's an offense built on finesse and passing and less on physicality and running the ball downhill. athletic defenses find a way to screw up the rhythm of a great passing game: they get pressure on the QB, they disrupt the receivers' routes, they create turnovers...and meanwhile, on the other side of the ball, Florida has a great offense, and OU's defense is highly suspect, so things can get ugly fast. so i'm pretty much predicting a repeat of the Florida/Ohio State championship.

don't get it twisted, florida's defense is suspect too. Bama's RB's ran all up & down their backsides & as someone said earlier in this thread, if they hadn't abandoned it as early as they did in the 2nd half, Florida might've been looking at 1-2 less possessions on offense to have a chance to score. & Alabama wasn't exactly known for it's high powered offense either.

kastofsna
12-08-2008, 12:33 PM
Florida's defense has been great all year, not really concerned over one game, especially where that one game featured a very talented team running well, as they've done all year long against the same good defenses that Florida has faced. they weren't undefeated in the SEC and ranked #1 going into the game because they didn't have the ability to run the ball well. their o-line is great

Mr teX
12-08-2008, 01:02 PM
Florida's defense has been great all year, not really concerned over one game, especially where that one game featured a very talented team running well, as they've done all year long against the same good defenses that Florida has faced. they weren't undefeated in the SEC and ranked #1 going into the game because they didn't have the ability to run the ball well. their o-line is great


That's what makes their defense just as suspect as OU's imo. & You could flip that & say the same about any of the top teams in the Big 12. Like u said, it's a chicken or egg thing.

Florida's 1 loss came against sort of a spread offensive team & they gave up 31 pts.

OU's 1 loss came against a solid defensive team & they gave up 45 pts.

are either of these games representative of who these teams are now? we'll see. They each have their pros & cons as to why their defenses are/are not suspect.

kastofsna
12-08-2008, 01:04 PM
well, there's a big difference between facing a huge brutal o-line like Alabama's and allowing big runs downhill and the wide-open finesse offense of Oklahoma

Mr teX
12-08-2008, 01:15 PM
well, there's a big difference between facing a huge brutal o-line like Alabama's and allowing big runs downhill and the wide-open finesse offense of Oklahoma

Umm.. last i checked, OU's offensive line was huge & brutal too, so Florida will have to deal with that & OU's passing game. Florida was having to blitz too much to stem Bama's running game...you're not gonna be able to do that too much to a spread offense with a competent triggerman like Bradford. Not saying OU's gonna win, but it's closer than you think it is.

Texan JBZ
12-08-2008, 01:23 PM
Umm.. last i checked, OU's offensive line was huge & brutal too, so Florida will have to deal with that & OU's passing game.

Oklahoma's oline is good, but not as good as the Bama oline. Plus, Glenn Coffee is a much better back than Demarco Murray. Like I stated in another post, I think Coffee is the most underrated back in college football. The one team that OU played this year who had a good solid defense, they lost to them by 10. Florida is going to be the best defense they've faced since then. Florida's offense has faced defenses from Bama, South Carolina, Ole Miss, and Florida State. And they only lost to one of these teams in Ole Miss who has the best gameday coach in America in Houston Nutt. That's not that bad imo. Bradford and OU will put up points but not at the same clip they have lately against Florida. Not a chance!

Mr teX
12-08-2008, 01:32 PM
Oklahoma's oline is good, but not as good as the Bama oline. Plus, Glenn Coffee is a much better back than Demarco Murray. Like I stated in another post, I think Coffee is the most underrated back in college football. The one team that OU played this year who had a good solid defense, they lost to them by 10. Florida is going to be the best defense they've faced since then. Florida's offense has faced defenses from Bama, South Carolina, Ole Miss, and Florida State. And they only lost to one of these teams in Ole Miss who has the best gameday coach in America in Houston Nutt. That's not that bad imo. Bradford and OU will put up points but not at the same clip they have lately against Florida. Not a chance!

Of course, i don't see them putting up 60 on Florida, i just think it may be closer than he's predicting. Both teams have athletes & things that each doesn't do well, the other side of the ball more than makes up for it.