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View Full Version : Is Schaub injury prone?


gtexan02
11-19-2008, 05:02 PM
I keep hearing this, but I don't know how I feel about it.

On the one hand, he's missed a lot of time. So its easy to call him injury prone.

On the other hand, whose fault are the injuries?
Are they freak accidents?
Are they fault of cheap and dirty DL trying to hurt him? (Haynesworth + Allen)
Are they because he doesn't know how to take or avoid hits?

Everyone says that he's injury prone because Carr took even more hits and stayed in the game, but lets not forget that Carr reverted to the fetal position an opposing defender broke through our line. If Schaub "took a hit" like Carr did, I'm sure he'd be fine and we'd be even more pissed. Lets also not forget that Schaub took 2 hits to his knee and stayed in the game for the rest of the half with a torn MCL.

So what do you think?

GlassHalfFull
11-19-2008, 05:10 PM
I have actually been thinking about this quite a bit. It bugs me when fans get on a player for being "fragile." I promise you that if 96% of the posters here took the hits Schaub has taken, they would be injured also. Helmet to the knee, ala Jared Allen, results in an injury.

Injuries happen, it has been highly unfortunate that Schaub has missed so much time in his 2 seasons here. Who or what to blame? I don't know. But, I do know that I do not like it when the fans blame the player.

I have had several serious injuries, so maybe I am more sympathetic than most. I once went to an orthopedic specialist to find out if there was something wrong with me for having so many broken bones. He had me list what had caused the breaks (mostly horseback riding injuries) and told me that my only problem was participating in high risk sports.

Football is a high risk sport, it is pretty much a miracle that anyone survives injury free to play an extended career.

texanfan2002114
11-19-2008, 05:27 PM
I have actually been thinking about this quite a bit. It bugs me when fans get on a player for being "fragile." I promise you that if 96% of the posters here took the hits Schaub has taken, they would be injured also. Helmet to the knee, ala Jared Allen, results in an injury.

Injuries happen, it has been highly unfortunate that Schaub has missed so much time in his 2 seasons here. Who or what to blame? I don't know. But, I do know that I do not like it when the fans blame the player.

I have had several serious injuries, so maybe I am more sympathetic than most. I once went to an orthopedic specialist to find out if there was something wrong with me for having so many broken bones. He had me list what had caused the breaks (mostly horseback riding injuries) and told me that my only problem was participating in high risk sports.

Football is a high risk sport, it is pretty much a miracle that anyone survives injury free to play an extended career.

We are not getting paid to play a kids game. Brett Farve has played 15 years and hasn't missed one game. Carr played on those years here and seemed to stay on the field.

Some players can't seem to stay healthy and Schaub is one of those players. So yes to answer your question, Schaub is injury prone. He was injured in college with a shoulder injury and for the past 2 seasons he can't seem to stay of the field.

Someone needs to buy him a gallon of milk!!

TexansFanatic
11-19-2008, 05:33 PM
Yes.

Spike
11-19-2008, 05:36 PM
He deserves the label. I agree that it isn't fair, but if you miss the number of games he has missed the past two seasons, he should be considered injury prone - whether it is a result of a "clean" hit, illegal hit or just bad luck.

Specnatz
11-19-2008, 05:42 PM
He deserves the label. I agree that it isn't fair, but if you miss the number of games he has missed the past two seasons, he should be considered injury prone - whether it is a result of a "clean" hit, illegal hit or just bad luck.

That is some odd logic. I bet you would call someone who was shot injury prone, as well right?

Ole Miss Texan
11-19-2008, 05:42 PM
I don't think he's injury prone or fragile. I do wonder why he gets hit so often and why they are always really hard hits. If you're going to fault Matt with anything regarding this, I would say he doesn't know how to take a hit or doesn't know how to avoid the hard hits. It's incredible how hard he gets hit compared to most other QB's so that's why I'm leaning towards that thought.

Rex King
11-19-2008, 05:45 PM
It's just a flesh wound!

Double Barrel
11-19-2008, 05:49 PM
I don't think he's injury prone or fragile. I do wonder why he gets hit so often and why they are always really hard hits. If you're going to fault Matt with anything regarding this, I would say he doesn't know how to take a hit or doesn't know how to avoid the hard hits. It's incredible how hard he gets hit compared to most other QB's so that's why I'm leaning towards that thought.

Well said, man.

I suppose it comes down to the definition of "injury prone". But, at the end of the day, Schaub seems to be in position to be hit hard quite a bit of the time. Is that his fault? Well, he could release the ball sooner or throw it away, or have better situational awareness in the pocket, I guess.

Not to compare anyone to Favre (the dude is beyond comparison, really), but I saw a piece on him awhile back pertaining to what he does after a handoff or pass. He runs backwards so that 21 players are all in front of him. He deliberately puts some distance between himself and where the hits are happening downfield. It is a survival instinct that has obviously served him well. Can players learn this? Or is it just part of a QB's DNA? idonno:

Runner
11-19-2008, 05:58 PM
Injury prone is subjective.

The fact is that he has missed 1/3 or so of the games he's been a Texan. This is a pattern, but he's only been here two years. His fault or not, a third year of the same pattern would be significant to me.

ArlingtonTexan
11-19-2008, 07:17 PM
Injury prone is subjective.

The fact is that he has missed 1/3 or so of the games he's been a Texan. This is a pattern, but he's only been here two years. His fault or not, a third year of the same pattern would be significant to me.


I remember getting flack when talking about Dom Davis, but the reality is that whether its a player's fault or not showing up and participating in a large part of the battle. It not totally fair especially when you see the questionable hit, but at the end of the day a player has to play.

dtran04
11-19-2008, 07:41 PM
TMac and Yao are injury prone. I'm not sure if Schaub is quite there yet.

Spled
11-19-2008, 07:52 PM
He does seem like Mr. Glass sometimes. http://www.the-reel-mccoy.com/movies/2000/images/unbreakable3.jpg

texanfan2002114
11-19-2008, 07:58 PM
TMac and Yao are injury prone. I'm not sure if Schaub is quite there yet.

2 Seasons as a starter and 2 seasons with major injuries to miss a lot of time during the season. What else do you need to be sure of?

houstonhurricane
11-19-2008, 08:00 PM
He is not taking half the beating Carr took during his tenure here. It has always amazed me how that kid stayed upright (and is able to walk) after his disasterous stint here.

FILO_girl
11-19-2008, 08:03 PM
Is Schaub injury prone? Dunno on that one
Is he fragile? YES!

Thorn
11-19-2008, 08:10 PM
Just dealing strickly with the data, yeah, he seems to be injury prone. But he has taken a lot of cheap shots. I used to be such a Sage supporter, and against Schaub, but now, seems I might have had a few things back asswards. Such is football. I think before it's all over with, we'll end up drafting a high round QB in 2010. Or, God forbid, making another trade for one. We'll see. I've predicted so much crap that didn't even come close I don't even think my cat believes me anymore.

b0ng
11-19-2008, 08:36 PM
Yeah. However, he has been the victim of some pretty harsh cheapshots. I mean there have been 3 different players in the past two years that have been FINED BY THE LEAGUE for the severity of their cheapshots on Schaub.

How many shots of that magnitude has Favre received in the past 2 years? I mean I remember Carr getting sacked a lot, but I don't remember how many of them were directly for the knee, or helmet-to-helmet jobs, but I'm guessing he might of had as many as with his stint with the Texans as Schaub does now.

But yeah, that guy really can't take a good shot. He'll fall apart. I am happy that he lasted for as long as he did this year. Last year he made it to what? Week 6?

BullBlitz
11-19-2008, 08:53 PM
I keep hearing this, but I don't know how I feel about it.

On the one hand, he's missed a lot of time. So its easy to call him injury prone.

On the other hand, whose fault are the injuries?
Are they freak accidents?
Are they fault of cheap and dirty DL trying to hurt him? (Haynesworth + Allen)
Are they because he doesn't know how to take or avoid hits?

Everyone says that he's injury prone because Carr took even more hits and stayed in the game, but lets not forget that Carr reverted to the fetal position an opposing defender broke through our line. If Schaub "took a hit" like Carr did, I'm sure he'd be fine and we'd be even more pissed. Lets also not forget that Schaub took 2 hits to his knee and stayed in the game for the rest of the half with a torn MCL.

So what do you think?

Carr took plenty of hits in 5 years and repeatedly got up. Many more than Matt has. I am amazed that he survived as well as he did behind that line.

Yeah, Matt's injury prone. Probably the most injury prone QB I've seen.

False Start
11-19-2008, 09:19 PM
Matt is fragile, but this latest injury was just a chicken shit play on Jared Allen's part. I really like the guy and hope he can become a successful player on this team. It seems to me he has a price on his head or something, both times he's been injured they were over the top shots that seemed to have some purpose behind them.

scourge
11-19-2008, 10:07 PM
Well, he sure is cheap shot prone... and seems to have a "glass jaw" so to speak.

TexanBorn51
11-19-2008, 10:20 PM
Jared Allen got fined again on a shot this past sunday game.

Ole Miss Texan
11-19-2008, 10:26 PM
A difference between Schaub and Carr that I see is that Schaub can actually get rid of the ball. When a QB like Schaub throws the ball, he's avoiding the sack and may even score a touchdown, but he leaves himself completely open to the hit. That's where Schaub is getting hurt, after he throws the ball.

Carr was able to stay healthy for so long because he rarely threw the ball away. That's also why he got more sacks... well, a reason anyway. Carr prepared himself for the hit by going in the fetal position or bracing himself for it. Schaub gets rid of the ball but gets walloped.

The1ApplePie
11-19-2008, 10:53 PM
As an athlete I was very injury prone (have two joints that act funny on cold days to prove it) so I can sympathize. Sometimes your body fails you and there is nothing you can do.

Schaub seems to lack general toughness though, injury or not. Any time he even gets touched by an opposing player he always flops on the ground and lays there for a good long while. He's litterally been nudged and done the same.

Every QB gets cheap shots put on him. That's why guys like Allen, Rodney Harrison, and Hanyesworth get paid the big bucks. A QB that will amount to anything in the NFL plays through it and gets off the turf.

I could never see Schaub playing like Anquan Boldin is this year after that horrific injury

Norg
11-20-2008, 12:45 AM
i think the facts dont lie since hes been here he has missed alot of games for whatever reason

i just calling it like i see it

on paper it does not look good so far

Nighthawk
11-20-2008, 03:28 AM
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha etc.

bigbrewster2000
11-20-2008, 10:19 AM
As an athlete I was very injury prone (have two joints that act funny on cold days to prove it) so I can sympathize. Sometimes your body fails you and there is nothing you can do.

Schaub seems to lack general toughness though, injury or not. Any time he even gets touched by an opposing player he always flops on the ground and lays there for a good long while. He's litterally been nudged and done the same.

Every QB gets cheap shots put on him. That's why guys like Allen, Rodney Harrison, and Hanyesworth get paid the big bucks. A QB that will amount to anything in the NFL plays through it and gets off the turf.

I could never see Schaub playing like Anquan Boldin is this year after that horrific injury
I see where you are going with that statement however, blaming a guy for getting his MCL torn and his shoulder seperated from cheap shots is hardly an argument, since all of those other QB's that get cheap shot in the same fashion. Generally speaking guys dont play through those injuries and if they do ala Philip Rivers last season in the playoffs, they are not productive. And to add to that it's not like Schaub is sitting because of nagging injuries.

So to answer the question, no I dont think Schaub is injury prone.

HOU-TEX
11-20-2008, 10:42 AM
I don't think he's injury prone. I think he's a victim of the Houston sports team's curse.

Some of y'all think the Madden cover is cursed...pffft! The Houston sports team's curse puts the Madden curse to shame. Join a Houston sports team and you're guaranteed to fail in some form. :gun:

eriadoc
11-20-2008, 10:57 AM
I won't comment on whether or not he's injury prone, but I will say at some point, it becomes irrelevant. All that matters is how much time he spends on the field playing for his team. He can miss time legitimately, or because he's been cheap shotted, or because he has a glass jaw .... whatever. At the end of it, all that's going to matter is whether or not he was out there. At some point, the reasons and excuses no longer matter.

spurstexanstros
11-20-2008, 10:58 AM
Schaub reminds me of an expensive foreign car...paid alot to get it and it looks like it is better than the one you had. It handles better and you enjoy the experiance better, but it never works...it is always in the shop. So you have to spend time in a rental and miss the days when you had a reliable carr(freudian slip)... not as flashy but it could get the job done if taken care of.

Was schaub worth all that we gave up for him? Could David have done better with the weapons we have now and what if we used those pics we traded to atlanta for offensive line help.

We will never know because our expensive Qb is on the rack and our rental that we thought was a Camry turned out to be a KIA. My apologies to KIA owners your car is more reliable than Sage.

eriadoc
11-20-2008, 10:59 AM
A difference between Schaub and Carr that I see is that Schaub can actually get rid of the ball. When a QB like Schaub throws the ball, he's avoiding the sack and may even score a touchdown, but he leaves himself completely open to the hit. That's where Schaub is getting hurt, after he throws the ball.

Carr was able to stay healthy for so long because he rarely threw the ball away. That's also why he got more sacks... well, a reason anyway. Carr prepared himself for the hit by going in the fetal position or bracing himself for it. Schaub gets rid of the ball but gets walloped.

Common misconception based on the final couple years here in Houston. From '02 - '04, Carr was as tough as they came; he just never progressed to where he needed to be, and toward the end of '04 began the downhill slide.

Could David have done better with the weapons we have now and what if we used those pics we traded to atlanta for offensive line help.

Carr was damaged goods by that point. His chance at an NFL career ended in '04.

Dread-Head
11-20-2008, 11:36 AM
Is Schaub injury prone?


Possible answers:

a. Is Starstruck a Cowboys fan?
b. Does Porky dislike Bill Clinton?
c. Does Texan Bill avoid my nachos like the plague?
d. Does Guerilla Black post hot chicks as his avitar?
e. Do I frequently disagree with a buxom Japanese woman?
f. Does She Texan have great seats to every home game?
g. Does Ted-C have a Texan's blue hardhat complete with logo?
h. Does my head look like a mop?
i. Cha/like...well duh...

Mr. White
11-20-2008, 12:42 PM
I don't necessarily think that he's injury prone, just a pocket passer that's not getting very good pass protection.

This is why I'm not sold on the ZBS. Seems like it works great for a mobile QB like Elway or Vick, but a pocket passer like Schaub doesn't have much of a chance.....especially against an above average defense.

GP
11-21-2008, 10:35 AM
"Is Schaub injury prone?"

Uh, yep.

But of course...it's not his fault. He receives hits that even Superman would crumble under. And that pesky oline is a problem, too. Matt Schaub just needs a 360-degree 3-yard halo for 5 seconds each pass play and he'd be fine.

When will you guys "get it?" The guy is not durable. All NFL players are going to get hurt. All NFL players are going to have to figure out a way, a way beyond the thinking of most sane people, to stay out of harm's way no matter what. You have to limit the severity of the hits to some degree. You have to be smart 100% of the time.

But you still get hurt. It's just part of the game. Do I know about? A little. I played some ball in school, but not college and not pro. Still, you only have to read the quotes of other NFl players to grasp the fact that all NFL players get dinged up and hurt. A QB in the NFL has to find a way to protect HIMSELF instead of thinking that others are there to ensure his safety.

Man, I am so ready for the Schaub days to be over.

Hervoyel
11-21-2008, 12:06 PM
Injury prone is subjective.

The fact is that he has missed 1/3 or so of the games he's been a Texan. This is a pattern, but he's only been here two years. His fault or not, a third year of the same pattern would be significant to me.

Last year when the first rumblings of "fragile" were in the air I said repeatedly that one season marred by injury does not make a player injury prone or fragile. I also said that if we got a repeat of this in 2008 then it would be a fair topic of discussion. I still stand by that and I think that after two seasons with injuries it's more than fair to ask this question and I can see why some of us think the answer is "yes". I'm leaning toward agreeing and I hate to say that because I think the guy has a chance to really be an excellent QB for us in this system if we could ever get the running game on track consistently. Still, some guys just end up being hurt all the time and in every one of those guys careers there are injuries that can be pointed out as being "not this guys fault" but they happen.

I think that year 3 is it for this as well. Once is fine. Twice is suspicious. Three times is a pattern in my opinion and you go ahead and start working towards another direction following that third season. In fact I'd part ways with the Rosenchopper after this year and try to land the best veteran backup I could find because I'm expecting Schaub's 3rd year to be just like the first two.Then I'd draft a QB following that season and plan on letting Schaub walk if need be. By year 4 if he's going to stick around to try and beat this thing then he's going to do it at a discount and have to beat the other QB's on the roster out for the job.

Texan_Bill
11-21-2008, 12:13 PM
I know Chris Chandelier, and Matt Schaub is no Chris Chandelier.

GP
11-21-2008, 12:18 PM
Last year when the first rumblings of "fragile" were in the air I said repeatedly that one season marred by injury does not make a player injury prone or fragile. I also said that if we got a repeat of this in 2008 then it would be a fair topic of discussion. I still stand by that and I think that after two seasons with injuries it's more than fair to ask this question and I can see why some of us think the answer is "yes". I'm leaning toward agreeing and I hate to say that because I think the guy has a chance to really be an excellent QB for us in this system if we could ever get the running game on track consistently. Still, some guys just end up being hurt all the time and in every one of those guys careers there are injuries that can be pointed out as being "not this guys fault" but they happen.

I think that year 3 is it for this as well. Once is fine. Twice is suspicious. Three times is a pattern in my opinion and you go ahead and start working towards another direction following that third season. In fact I'd part ways with the Rosenchopper after this year and try to land the best veteran backup I could find because I'm expecting Schaub's 3rd year to be just like the first two.Then I'd draft a QB following that season and plan on letting Schaub walk if need be. By year 4 if he's going to stick around to try and beat this thing then he's going to do it at a discount and have to beat the other QB's on the roster out for the job.

So he's on the team for two more years, with the last year being a year where he has to earn the spot (finally)?

I'd dump both QBs and move on. But that'd be admitting that it failed, and we know that you don't do that in Houston. You pray and hope. You wait. You give extra chances. It's the decent thing to do.

And at the end of the day, it's the decent teams that win championships.

Hervoyel
11-21-2008, 01:11 PM
So he's on the team for two more years, with the last year being a year where he has to earn the spot (finally)?

I'd dump both QBs and move on. But that'd be admitting that it failed, and we know that you don't do that in Houston. You pray and hope. You wait. You give extra chances. It's the decent thing to do.

And at the end of the day, it's the decent teams that win championships.

I don't see why not. The guy is hurt because an asshat drove his helmet into Matt's knee. It was a cheap shot and it injured him. That cheap shot injures just about every player it happens to so how are you going to take this season and count it against him? Somebody go get Brett Favre and line up Jared Allen's helmet with Favre's knee and see what happens. I'll tell you what happens, the "Iron Man" goes down just like Schaub did.

Schaub has had a pretty good season apart from the turnovers and in fact played three outstanding games against Jacksonville, Detroit, and Cincinnati (admittedly not "the gauntlet" but still great games) and played well enough to win two others (Tennessee and Miami which we split).

I think his play has earned him a spot on this team. I just think that there is a chance that he might lose that spot if he can't stay healthy and think you prove or disprove that in 2009. Given that we're talking about two years in a row here I go into 2009 prepared for the worst but hoping for the best.

If he makes it through the 2009 season without a major injury then great. We're rolling. If he doesn't then that's when I say head in a new direction and if you're going to keep Schaub on the team at all past that point he's got to be able to win a spot on the roster all over again. I never said I didn't think he'd done enough to earn his place right now and I don't see any reason not to have him around in 2010 even if we're getting a rookie warmed up to take over.

Bipolar The Titan
11-21-2008, 05:33 PM
Dump Schaub and go get Colt McCoy. Sign a crappy fa qb too. Get rid of Sage. He will only break your heart.

CloakNNNdagger
11-21-2008, 05:57 PM
Dump Schaub and go get Colt McCoy. Sign a crappy fa qb too. Get rid of Sage. He will only break your heart.

If there was any way to get McCoy, it would be a G-d send. He is a running, passing QB with great completion percentage, great TD:INT ratio and great QB rating and cannon arm.........Something we have yet to be blessed with.

HIS STATS (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=175772)

GNTLEWOLF
11-21-2008, 09:00 PM
That is some odd logic. I bet you would call someone who was shot injury prone, as well right?


I might if he repeatedly got shot

GP
11-22-2008, 12:46 AM
I don't see why not. The guy is hurt because an asshat drove his helmet into Matt's knee. It was a cheap shot and it injured him. That cheap shot injures just about every player it happens to so how are you going to take this season and count it against him? Somebody go get Brett Favre and line up Jared Allen's helmet with Favre's knee and see what happens. I'll tell you what happens, the "Iron Man" goes down just like Schaub did.

Schaub has had a pretty good season apart from the turnovers and in fact played three outstanding games against Jacksonville, Detroit, and Cincinnati (admittedly not "the gauntlet" but still great games) and played well enough to win two others (Tennessee and Miami which we split).

I think his play has earned him a spot on this team. I just think that there is a chance that he might lose that spot if he can't stay healthy and think you prove or disprove that in 2009. Given that we're talking about two years in a row here I go into 2009 prepared for the worst but hoping for the best.

If he makes it through the 2009 season without a major injury then great. We're rolling. If he doesn't then that's when I say head in a new direction and if you're going to keep Schaub on the team at all past that point he's got to be able to win a spot on the roster all over again. I never said I didn't think he'd done enough to earn his place right now and I don't see any reason not to have him around in 2010 even if we're getting a rookie warmed up to take over.

I would think that when we start playing the "Well, if he 'x' or if he 'y' then we will 'z'...." game, then that's a sign that he's on the outside looking in.

Matt Schaub can't stay on the field more than a handful of games.

And when he gets back on it, he's right back in the same spot: Unable to overcome a defense that gets in his face.

I can't imagine him being here past next season, in any capacity. He's gonna' get the third season, though, that's for sure.