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valleytexfan
11-16-2008, 03:18 PM
I'm not Mr. Sunshine, but I definitely must say Mr. Slaton looked fresh and very very good. Thoughts?

bah007
11-16-2008, 03:18 PM
Steve "Dead Legs" Slaton had a pretty decent day.

Runner
11-16-2008, 03:20 PM
Steve "Dead Legs" Slaton had a pretty decent day.

I wonder if he'll get 10 carries next week?

He looked very good today.

Mari-OWNED!
11-16-2008, 03:20 PM
Steve "Dead Legs" Slaton had a pretty decent day.

If on only 14 attempts for 156 yards and a TD is "decent" I want to see what you think is spectacular.

bah007
11-16-2008, 03:23 PM
If on only 14 attempts for 156 yards and a TD is "decent" I want to see what you think is spectacular.

Surely you caught the sarcasm there....

I thought it was too obvious to need the sarcasm smiley.

Jackie Chiles
11-16-2008, 03:23 PM
The running game was so beautiful today, too bad the Colts controlled the time of possession or we could have wracked up some serious records.

TexansSeminole
11-16-2008, 03:24 PM
Good game for Slaton. He's got 701 yards on 138 carries and 6 TDs. Remember that 71 yard TD run is the longest TD run in Texans history. He also has 32 receptions for 198 yards and a TD catch this season.

This guy has proven to be the steal of our draft, and perhaps the entire draft. He should get serious consideration for offensive rookie of the year if he keeps this level of play up.

Mari-OWNED!
11-16-2008, 03:25 PM
Surely you caught the sarcasm there....

I thought it was too obvious to need the sarcasm smiley.

There are so many trolls, that it's sometimes hard to tell.

awtysst
11-16-2008, 03:54 PM
There are so many trolls, that it's sometimes hard to tell.

He wont. He is not even the most impressive looking back. That goes to the Tacks Johnson.

I believe ROY will be Atlanta QB Matt Ryan or Balti QB Joe Flaco.

TexansSeminole
11-16-2008, 03:57 PM
He wont. He is not even the most impressive looking back. That goes to the Tacks Johnson.

I believe ROY will be Atlanta QB Matt Ryan or Balti QB Joe Flaco.

I dunno, I think Slaton is just as impressive as Johnson.

QBs always get the awards. I suppose Matt Ryan deserves some love.

Runner
11-16-2008, 04:11 PM
I dunno, I think Slaton is just as impressive as Johnson.



Slaton won't win OROY missing large parts of games to stay fresh.

ATXtexanfan
11-16-2008, 04:15 PM
ryan has that award locked up. slaton has exceeded expectations.

Hervoyel
11-16-2008, 04:34 PM
The running game was so beautiful today, too bad the Colts controlled the time of possession or we could have wracked up some serious records.

How does that work exactly? If the running game was "so beautiful" then how did the Colts manage to control the TOP?

It seems to me like something doesn't add up....

Oh yeah, we don't have a defense!

brakos82
11-16-2008, 04:57 PM
LOL at the poll on HT.com front page... :user:

Spled
11-16-2008, 05:15 PM
Numbers wise, Johnson's the only rookie running back ahead of Slaton. Slaton's a first round talent we got in the third.

Vinny
11-16-2008, 05:20 PM
I don't buy the "dead legs" bullship....Slaton had a huge run last week when he was so disabled that Kubiak had to "save" him for the Colts. It's just a copout for abandoning the running game the last couple of games as far as I'm concerned. Today the Texans did the same exact thing till drive 3 and then Kubiak finally snapped that you have to actually run the ball to be successful running the ball.

Hervoyel
11-16-2008, 05:24 PM
I don't buy the "dead legs" bullship....Slaton had a huge run last week when he was so disabled that Kubiak had to "save" him for the Colts. It's just a copout for abandoning the running game the last couple of games as far as I'm concerned. Today the Texans did the same exact thing till drive 3 and then Kubiak finally snapped that you have to actually run the ball to be successful running the ball.


I'm starting to think that Kubiak is maybe not up to the mental side of being an NFL head coach (and not going to get there). I think that in football, at each level of the game where coaching staffs are concerned you have guys who can coach and guys who still need a little coaching themselves.

I'm afraid Gary Kubiak falls into the latter category. He's not head coach material no matter how much we want to believe he is.

Vinny
11-16-2008, 05:27 PM
I'm starting to think that Kubiak is maybe not up to the mental side of being an NFL head coach (and not going to get there). I think that in football, at each level of the game where coaching staffs are concerned you have guys who can coach and guys who still need a little coaching themselves.

I'm afraid Gary Kubiak falls into the latter category. He's not head coach material no matter how much we want to believe he is.
Kubiak promoted to Head Coach is what the peter principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle) is all about.

Buffi2
11-16-2008, 05:31 PM
I'm starting to think that Kubiak is maybe not up to the mental side of being an NFL head coach (and not going to get there). I think that in football, at each level of the game where coaching staffs are concerned you have guys who can coach and guys who still need a little coaching themselves.

I'm afraid Gary Kubiak falls into the latter category. He's not head coach material no matter how much we want to believe he is.

He doesn't seem to be able to get a handle on this playcalling thing. He goes into panic mode, and hands the ball to interception prone QBs as if he was still dealing with Elway. He loses all ability to think rationally. I thought he would get better as the years went by - but he hasn't. Learning from mistakes isn't one of Kubiak's strong suits.

Hervoyel
11-16-2008, 05:35 PM
He doesn't seem to be able to get a handle on this playcalling thing. He goes into panic mode, and hands the ball to interception prone QBs as if he was still dealing with Elway. He loses all ability to think rationally. I thought he would get better as the years went by - but he hasn't. Learning from mistakes isn't one of Kubiak's strong suits.

He has taken on the appearance of a man who looked great because he coached players who were going to be great regardless hasn't he? He runs crap out there like he's got a miracle maker under center who can make it work and I'm thinking that he doesn't understand why it isn't just clicking along like it always did before.

He may just resign on us if this year gets bad enough or McNair might pull the plug on him if he spends too many more weeks looking like he can't figure it out.

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 05:36 PM
He doesn't seem to be able to get a handle on this playcalling thing. He goes into panic mode, and hands the ball to interception prone QBs as if he was still dealing with Elway. He loses all ability to think rationally. I thought he would get better as the years went by - but he hasn't. Learning from mistakes isn't one of Kubiak's strong suits.

While I might be inclined to agree with Herv and Vinny on Kubiak's mental make-up, I don't see how you can place today's loss on him. In a two minute drill situation, you have to put the ball into your QB's hands. And Sage only threw the ball 18 times today, I think. That's pretty well removing the ball from your QB's hands as well as you can with such a porous defense. There's only so much Kubiak can do with bad players.

Vinny
11-16-2008, 05:42 PM
While I might be inclined to agree with Herv and Vinny on Kubiak's mental make-up, I don't see how you can place today's loss on him. In a two minute drill situation, you have to put the ball into your QB's hands. And Sage only threw the ball 18 times today, I think. That's pretty well removing the ball from your QB's hands as well as you can with such a porous defense. There's only so much Kubiak can do with bad players.
Well, Denny Green thinks he isn't to blame.

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 07:17 PM
Well, Denny Green thinks he isn't to blame.

Well, at the risk of derailing the thread, what specifically would you ave done differently today? How many times should Sage have thrown the ball? I mean, I agree that the answer would ideally be zero, but hey ... reality's a *****. There are plenty of areas to second guess Kubiak on, but today's loss came down to the same thing most of our losses have come down to - crappy defense and a turnover-prone QB.

Vinny
11-16-2008, 07:26 PM
Well, at the risk of derailing the thread, what specifically would you ave done differently today? How many times should Sage have thrown the ball? I mean, I agree that the answer would ideally be zero, but hey ... reality's a *****. There are plenty of areas to second guess Kubiak on, but today's loss came down to the same thing most of our losses have come down to - crappy defense and a turnover-prone QB.
I'm not second guessing Kubiak. I just hate watching soft finesse football that looks clueless at times on many different levels and if your offense can't produce 30+ points you just won't be in any games. The defense was awful for two seasons and Kubiak keeps RS....this is on Kubiak. I'm sure he gets another year but this just reminds me of the Capers replacing Palmer era. These are Kubiak's players...those "bad players" you keep referring to.

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 07:36 PM
I'm not second guessing Kubiak. I just hate watching soft finesse football that looks clueless at times on many different levels and if your offense can't produce 30+ points you just won't be in any games. The defense was awful for two seasons and Kubiak keeps RS....this is on Kubiak. I'm sure he gets another year but this just reminds me of the Capers replacing Palmer era. These are Kubiak's players...those "bad players" you keep referring to.

I can totally agree with the bolded. I've taken to watching Giants football just so I can see Jacobs run. Anyway .....

I agree with you about Kubiak's responsibility for RS, and that, coupled with his game management decisions and free agency decisions have me against Kubiak.

As for the players, I just don't think that McNair wants to be the type of team that fixes things through FA, and there are only so many players to be had in the draft. So yeah, these are Kubiak's players, but you and I both know that many of them are placeholders, or he's doing the best with what he has. For instance, we've never drafted a safety with a first day pick. So Demps/Wilson/Ferguson/Harrison/etc. are better than the Brown/Earl combo, but we both know that they're all journeymen. Zac Diles as a starting LB? Really? Kubiak is making lemonade with lemons right there. Diles may have been better than what we had before him, but I seriously doubt he's the long-term answer. So yeah, they're Kubiak's players, but this isn't the Dolphins, where McNair's going to let Kubiak swap out 30 players in one off-season.

Porky
11-16-2008, 09:01 PM
Slaton was very impressive today. Even more impressive is that if you take away the one long TD run, he still averaged 6.5 per run on his other 13 carries. It's not like one of those deals where you see a RB average 2 yards a carry for 15 carries, but had one 30 yarder and one 60 yarder to skew things. Slaton was slicing and dicing them on just about every carry. If the D had a stop or two in them, he might have been pushing for close to 200.

What galls me is that today the Giants ran all over the vaunted Ravens running D. They actually TRIED to run, and dictated the game to the Ravens. They didn't just run around like a bunch of scared little school girls. The Texans gave in before they even tried to run, which played right into the Ravens hands.

This group is as soft as Charmin, and plays like Mr. Whipple. Kubiak has assembled a finesse team, both on O and D. I can live with a finesse offense if it's done well (although my preference is a little more smash mouth), but the D? Nope. Who ever won anything with a soft D?

TEXANRED
11-16-2008, 09:18 PM
As far as Slaton goes he has started 9 games and has 701 yards and 6 TD's.

He is easily a 12 to 13 hundred yard back.

Jackie Chiles
11-17-2008, 01:00 AM
Slaton was very impressive today. Even more impressive is that if you take away the one long TD run, he still averaged 6.5 per run on his other 13 carries. It's not like one of those deals where you see a RB average 2 yards a carry for 15 carries, but had one 30 yarder and one 60 yarder to skew things. Slaton was slicing and dicing them on just about every carry. If the D had a stop or two in them, he might have been pushing for close to 200.

What galls me is that today the Giants ran all over the vaunted Ravens running D. They actually TRIED to run, and dictated the game to the Ravens. They didn't just run around like a bunch of scared little school girls. The Texans gave in before they even tried to run, which played right into the Ravens hands.

This group is as soft as Charmin, and plays like Mr. Whipple. Kubiak has assembled a finesse team, both on O and D. I can live with a finesse offense if it's done well (although my preference is a little more smash mouth), but the D? Nope. Who ever won anything with a soft D?

Amen, our run game was defeated after about three plays against the Ravens if they weren't out of it before the game even started.

utahmark
11-17-2008, 01:17 AM
I don't buy the "dead legs" bullship....Slaton had a huge run last week when he was so disabled that Kubiak had to "save" him for the Colts. It's just a copout for abandoning the running game the last couple of games as far as I'm concerned. Today the Texans did the same exact thing till drive 3 and then Kubiak finally snapped that you have to actually run the ball to be successful running the ball.

didnt he say slaton had dead legs before last weeks game?

utahmark
11-17-2008, 01:21 AM
He has taken on the appearance of a man who looked great because he coached players who were going to be great regardless hasn't he? He runs crap out there like he's got a miracle maker under center who can make it work and I'm thinking that he doesn't understand why it isn't just clicking along like it always did before.
He may just resign on us if this year gets bad enough or McNair might pull the plug on him if he spends too many more weeks looking like he can't figure it out.

the offense is pretty much clicking along. not sure why everyone is so down on his playcalling. the offense is better than its ever been. better than most teams in the league. and he did this while using most of his high draft picks to help the defense.

utahmark
11-17-2008, 01:24 AM
Slaton was very impressive today. Even more impressive is that if you take away the one long TD run, he still averaged 6.5 per run on his other 13 carries. It's not like one of those deals where you see a RB average 2 yards a carry for 15 carries, but had one 30 yarder and one 60 yarder to skew things. Slaton was slicing and dicing them on just about every carry. If the D had a stop or two in them, he might have been pushing for close to 200.

What galls me is that today the Giants ran all over the vaunted Ravens running D. They actually TRIED to run, and dictated the game to the Ravens. They didn't just run around like a bunch of scared little school girls. The Texans gave in before they even tried to run, which played right into the Ravens hands.

This group is as soft as Charmin, and plays like Mr. Whipple. Kubiak has assembled a finesse team, both on O and D. I can live with a finesse offense if it's done well (although my preference is a little more smash mouth), but the D? Nope. Who ever won anything with a soft D?


i agree with that

BigBull17
11-17-2008, 07:22 AM
I don't buy the "dead legs" bullship....Slaton had a huge run last week when he was so disabled that Kubiak had to "save" him for the Colts. It's just a copout for abandoning the running game the last couple of games as far as I'm concerned. Today the Texans did the same exact thing till drive 3 and then Kubiak finally snapped that you have to actually run the ball to be successful running the ball.

Or he didnt practice hard enough. Or fumbled in a walk through. Gotta get those practice Pro Bowlers onto the field. I agree in rewarding hard work, but when one guy is head and shoulders above the rest, come on.

nunusguy
11-17-2008, 07:39 AM
Reggie Bush makes that 70 yard TD run yesterday, guaranteed ESPN shows it
all week long, claims he's definitely ProBowl material, and says he's the best back the NFLs seen in 20 years. BTW, now in his third season, what is little Reggies longest run from scrimmage, 20 yards or 30 yards or what ?
Couldn't help myself there, but great game by Slaton, congrats to Smith & Kubiak for doing something right this year by taking Slaton with a third-rounder (and our #2 third-rounder at that), in Aprils NFL college Draft.

dalemurphy
11-17-2008, 08:14 AM
I'm not second guessing Kubiak. I just hate watching soft finesse football that looks clueless at times on many different levels and if your offense can't produce 30+ points you just won't be in any games. The defense was awful for two seasons and Kubiak keeps RS....this is on Kubiak. I'm sure he gets another year but this just reminds me of the Capers replacing Palmer era. These are Kubiak's players...those "bad players" you keep referring to.

I just don't see the "bad players" on defense. As I've said all season, I really like the talent at LB and the depth at CB. I know those guys all looked awful yesterday and many games this year but I think they're just being put in a position to fail...

clues:

1. The amazement of our secondary on how Eugene Wilson "tricks" the offense by how he positions his body pre-snap.

2. Mario can absolutely dominate, as he did in the second quarter yesterday, but we're unable to cover for 3 seconds or run a blitz to take advantage of the problems they're having so that he, or another rusher can make a play.

3. Yesterday, we were content to just let Indy move up and down the field on us, control the clock and hope they screwed up... We didn't even try to do anything to dictate tempo or create any discomfort.

4. Just like in Pittsburgh, we were applying good pressure with the front 4 and dropping seven guys into coverage and within two seconds Colt receivers were wide open in the middle of the field- that's inexplicable and either bad coaching or bad schemes- that isn't a result of talent deficit.

We can argue about which players are good, decent, poor, etc... But the reality is that the talent isn't the worst in the league and with the offense's ability to put 27 on the board most games and one of the most dominate players on defense in the league, a good defensive staff should be able to put these guys in position to make more plays.

Yomaine
11-17-2008, 09:03 AM
Slaton could go on to be the equivalent of Demeco Ryans on the offensive side of the ball. One of the few talents on our team now. Now only if we can find us a nice back up that just plain hits the hole hard and always gets positive yards, we will have a running game for the next 8 to 10 years.

Yomaine
11-17-2008, 09:10 AM
I just don't see the "bad players" on defense. As I've said all season, I really like the talent at LB and the depth at CB. I know those guys all looked awful yesterday and many games this year but I think they're just being put in a position to fail...

clues:

1. The amazement of our secondary on how Eugene Wilson "tricks" the offense by how he positions his body pre-snap.

2. Mario can absolutely dominate, as he did in the second quarter yesterday, but we're unable to cover for 3 seconds or run a blitz to take advantage of the problems they're having so that he, or another rusher can make a play.

3. Yesterday, we were content to just let Indy move up and down the field on us, control the clock and hope they screwed up... We didn't even try to do anything to dictate tempo or create any discomfort.

4. Just like in Pittsburgh, we were applying good pressure with the front 4 and dropping seven guys into coverage and within two seconds Colt receivers were wide open in the middle of the field- that's inexplicable and either bad coaching or bad schemes- that isn't a result of talent deficit.

We can argue about which players are good, decent, poor, etc... But the reality is that the talent isn't the worst in the league and with the offense's ability to put 27 on the board most games and one of the most dominate players on defense in the league, a good defensive staff should be able to put these guys in position to make more plays.

Its not so much bad talent. Its the preparation and concepts of the coaching staff. If you watch the game closely we are playing some form of Man Coverage for the entire game. We do not have the personnel for this. Most teams don't. The days of the Deion Sanders are over and shut down corners are few and far between. Why our coaching staff believe we have the corners to run man all day I just can't comprehend. It all feeds the cycle of a bad defense. No rush on the quarterbacks creates difficult play for your corners and safeties. No coverage in the secondary creates confusion and more work for your linebackers. Confusion and constantly worrying about the past creates space for running backs to gain big chunks of yards every play. And then it becomes a cycle and your defense looks like it has no talent whatsoever by the end of the game!

HJam72
11-17-2008, 09:27 AM
No matter how you look at it, Steve Slaton stays and Richard Smith goes.

I'd kinda like to draft another QB at this point to (possibly) take over from Schaub (or not) some day and send Rosencopter following after Smith.

Oh, and we're not just playing man coverage without the talent, we're covering Marvin Harrison one-on-one with Petey Faggins. See ya, Mr. Smith.

Yomaine
11-17-2008, 11:09 AM
No matter how you look at it, Steve Slaton stays and Richard Smith goes.

I'd kinda like to draft another QB at this point to (possibly) take over from Schaub (or not) some day and send Rosencopter following after Smith.

Oh, and we're not just playing man coverage without the talent, we're covering Marvin Harrison one-on-one with Petey Faggins. See ya, Mr. Smith.

My sentiment exactly! How stupid is that. Our defense has Cover 2 written all over it. But of course we have coaches that see Man!

Vinny
11-17-2008, 11:14 AM
didnt he say slaton had dead legs before last weeks game?
yeah, that's why his 70 TD run was called back during his "dead legs" game...it was really just a cnn hologram. It really wasn't a penalty.

Vinny
11-17-2008, 11:17 AM
I just don't see the "bad players" on defense. As I've said all season, I really like the talent at LB and the depth at CB. I know those guys all looked awful yesterday and many games this year but I think they're just being put in a position to fail...


geez, Greenwood is awful...he is the new Jay Foreman. Our entire secondary stinks outside of Dunta...we are loaded with nickel and dime backs. Take out Mario and our DL is plenty awful.

gtexan02
11-17-2008, 11:18 AM
geez, Greenwood is awful...he is the new Jay Foreman. Our entire secondary stinks outside of Dunta...we are loaded with nickel and dime backs. Take out Mario and our DL is plenty awful.

I think the talent is there, I just don't think they are using it correctly.

Teams that look terrible one year can play excellent the next year with only 1 offseason under new coaching. Guys like Greenwood and Weaver may never live up to their expectation, but there is plenty of talent on our team, we just happen to waste it

BigBull17
11-17-2008, 11:22 AM
geez, Greenwood is awful...he is the new Jay Foreman. Our entire secondary stinks outside of Dunta...we are loaded with nickel and dime backs. Take out Mario and our DL is plenty awful.

Add to that Dunta is still trying to find his step and its even worse. We have about 3 people who can stay, the rest, there is the door. Guys like Cochran and Bouman shouldnt be major contributers. They should be part of your rotation, but not every down guys. Its a shame they are better than most of the guys ahead of them. Greenwood shouldnt play the rest of the year unless its special teams or Adibi needs a break.

Vinny
11-17-2008, 11:32 AM
I think the talent is there, I just don't think they are using it correctly.

Teams that look terrible one year can play excellent the next year with only 1 offseason under new coaching. Guys like Greenwood and Weaver may never live up to their expectation, but there is plenty of talent on our team, we just happen to waste it
you actually think this team is talented outside of DeMeco, Williams and Dunta? Based on what because it can't be based on their play....potential means you haven't done it yet...and may never do it.

BigBull17
11-17-2008, 11:34 AM
you actually think this team is talented outside of DeMeco, Williams and Dunta? Based on what because it can't be based on their play....potential means you haven't done it yet...and may never do it.

Aint that the truth.

gtexan02
11-17-2008, 11:46 AM
you actually think this team is talented outside of DeMeco, Williams and Dunta? Based on what because it can't be based on their play....potential means you haven't done it yet...and may never do it.

I firmly believe that 90% of what you see on the field is situation, not pure talent. Its coaching, its confidence, its scheme.

Ive posted this in another thread, but outside of the elite 10% of NFL players (Williams, Ryans, etc), I think most everyone else is capable of looking great on certain teams in certain situations and also looking horrible on certain teams in certain situations.

Why did Pat Buchannon look like crap here and then go on to succeed in Tampa?

Its the same reason that FA is such a crapshoot. The 49ers can spend on plenty of big name guys who are proven on their previous team and still have a terrible team afterwards.

Its the same reason that a team like ours can give up record breaking sacks, then changes coach and QB, and give up a third of that.

Miami was ranked 24th in defense last year. Change the coach, they jump up into the 14th spot.
The Bills went from 31st last year to 13th this year. They didn't make wholesale changes in personnel.
(Both of these teams don't have to play NE with Brady, which may inflate these stats a little)

There are other examples too.

I'm not saying we have a roster full of probowl HOFers, but I am saying that we have workable guys with good skillsets that are just being underdeveloped and improperly utilized. I don't think we need wholesale changes in personnel. I think we need to use the guys we've got better.

Vinny
11-17-2008, 12:04 PM
I firmly believe that 90% of what you see on the field is situation, not pure talent. Its coaching, its confidence, its scheme.
donno how you come to that conclusion since when I re-watch most games on DVR I see guys losing individual battles when dealing with one opposing player in a given play. Greenwood can't get off blocks and takes rotten angles, Okoye can't get off blocks and is re-directed effortlessly, Weaver has a beautiful backpedal but that's his entire game. Our Safetys aren't very safe and aren't very good in coverage and aren't very good supporting the run...other than that, they are aces. The one guy who can blanket cover a WR has worse ball skills than a blind man....hell even a blind man could make a play on the ball every now and then if he was in as good a position as Reeves. Zach Diles was a bright spot...so I'm with you on him outside of Mario, Dunta, and DeMeco.

gtexan02
11-17-2008, 12:30 PM
donno how you come to that conclusion since when I re-watch most games on DVR I see guys losing individual battles when dealing with one opposing player in a given play. Greenwood can't get off blocks and takes rotten angles, Okoye can't get off blocks and is re-directed effortlessly, Weaver has a beautiful backpedal but that's his entire game. Our Safetys aren't very safe and aren't very good in coverage and aren't very good supporting the run...other than that, they are aces. The one guy who can blanket cover a WR has worse ball skills than a blind man....hell even a blind man could make a play on the ball every now and then if he was in as good a position as Reeves. Zach Diles was a bright spot...so I'm with you on him outside of Mario, Dunta, and DeMeco.

I'll take your DVR observing skills over mine any day, and I can already tell you that my percentiles and observations are mostly rooted in a strong gut feeling. Nothing concrete about it.

That being said,

Greenwood's ability to shed blocks, Amobi's pass rush skills, Weaver's technique on the DL, our safeties coverage abilities--

I see all of those as more coaching and scheme problems than I do as lack of pure talent.

Tons of linebackers have problems shedding blocks. Good defenses find a way to use them so that they aren't having to shed blocks (using DL who take on blockers so LBs can make plays) or teach them how to shed blocks. Our defense does neither.

Tons of DL have problems translating their college pass rush into the pros. Good defenses teach their players the necessary skills. Williams got redirected easily enough in his first NFL action--- and he's a freak of nature. Good technique beats natural talent a lot of the time, and tahts what we're missing.

I think what it really boils down to is that its too depressing for me to even consider the possibility that our team is so talent-lacking that we need new safeties, linebackers, and DL. A lot of our players have been in the NFL a while, and some of them even had success other places before they came here. What happened? Did the player lose his talent, or does our coaching system fail so badly that they ruin players careers.

Think about it like this:
We get Will Demps, and he excels in his first half season with us. He's even named a pro-bowl alternate. Then after the offseason, he is suddenly terrible.
We've seen it with other midseason pickups. They are good until they spend more than a year with us.
Why is this?

If we have the talent, but its currently unrealized, a few key changes can take this team to where we want to go.

On the other hand, if we really are lacking NFL caliber starters in 6 or 7 positions on our defense, it could be another 2-3 years before we even think about consistently winning. And that is the most depressing thing I can imagine

Porky
11-17-2008, 12:36 PM
I think you are both right - we need better coaching AND better players. It's nothing that a good coach, a wise FA move and a couple of draft picks can't solve. Not saying they WILL solve it (I mean it's the Texans!) but it certainly CAN be solved.

Now will they? :bat:

Vinny
11-17-2008, 02:30 PM
good post gtexan02, you are more glass half full than I am when it comes to the d talent, but any way you slice this thing it is ugly...well, outside of ol' dead legs Slaton. I'd hate to see what he can do with non-dead legs.

dalemurphy
11-17-2008, 02:58 PM
I think you are both right - we need better coaching AND better players. It's nothing that a good coach, a wise FA move and a couple of draft picks can't solve. Not saying they WILL solve it (I mean it's the Texans!) but it certainly CAN be solved.

Now will they? :bat:


With good coaching on defense, this could easily be an average defense. If it was an average defense, we'd be in that group of wild card hopefuls along with: Buffalo, NE, Baltimore, Indy, Miami.

Certainly we need more talent but the defensive coaching is obliterating what could have been a fun season.

eriadoc
11-17-2008, 03:07 PM
Think about it like this:
We get Will Demps, and he excels in his first half season with us. He's even named a pro-bowl alternate. Then after the offseason, he is suddenly terrible.
We've seen it with other midseason pickups. They are good until they spend more than a year with us.
Why is this?

In addition to having a poor DC, it has to do with the synergy of team sports. An example to counter yours is that Weaver looked like a good run stopping DE while he was with the Ravens. Now he doesn't even look like he can do that. Demps looked pretty good when he was with the Ravens. Now, not so much.

The players that aurround each other affect the overall play so much that it's hard for one player to overcome. Mario is awesome, but he can't make this defense good. Give it long enough, and he'll start to look really average as well - same with Ryans.

Personally, I think the answer is C.) All of the above.

utahmark
11-17-2008, 03:12 PM
yeah, that's why his 70 TD run was called back during his "dead legs" game...it was really just a cnn hologram. It really wasn't a penalty.

what im asking is are you saying that kubiak is making up a story about slaton being tired so he can pass the ball more. thats really taken the road less traveled if thats what your insuating.

seems to me every year rookies hit a wall about this time, okoye did. the announcer said slaton was in on 60 something plays a couple of weeks ago. sounds like a lot to me for a rookie.

Vinny
11-17-2008, 03:23 PM
what im asking is are you saying that kubiak is making up a story about slaton being tired so he can pass the ball more. thats really taken the road less traveled if thats what your insuating.

seems to me every year rookies hit a wall about this time, okoye did. the announcer said slaton was in on 60 something plays a couple of weeks ago. sounds like a lot to me for a rookie.
I just thought it was incredibly weak to say he was resting Slaton for the Colts amongst his post game comments when the season blew up in their face last week. A Texan win and we are 4-5 in the playoff hunt and a big game with the Colts on the horizon. Today we are 3-7 and the fans are bickering about how much to protect the Coach from all this mean criticism....gosh darn this week is on me guys.

Hervoyel
11-17-2008, 03:27 PM
what im asking is are you saying that kubiak is making up a story about slaton being tired so he can pass the ball more. thats really taken the road less traveled if thats what your insuating.

seems to me every year rookies hit a wall about this time, okoye did. the announcer said slaton was in on 60 something plays a couple of weeks ago. sounds like a lot to me for a rookie.

I understood him to mean that Kubiak has this passing game that's kicking tail (when it's not throwing picks) and he sometimes gets on a roll (or tries to) and fails to put in the necessary carries to get the running game on track. Then later he comes back and has to explain why he ran the ball 15 times one week, stated that he wished he'd run it more, and then comes out the next week and runs it only 16 times. He's basically screwing up in that scenario, then admitting that he screwed up, and then coming back and screwing up again.

So he likely takes a comment or statement from Slaton about his legs being tired one day and turns it into an excuse as to why he didn't run the ball anymore the week after he said he should be running the ball more.

Sometimes Kubiak does some mysterious stuff and we just have to go with it.

That's how I understood Vinny's comments. I might have gotten his meaning wrong too.

Vinny
11-17-2008, 03:30 PM
I understood him to mean that Kubiak has this passing game that's kicking tail (when it's not throwing picks) and he sometimes gets on a roll (or tries to) and fails to put in the necessary carries to get the running game on track. Then later he comes back and has to explain why he ran the ball 15 times one week, stated that he wished he'd run it more, and then comes out the next week and runs it only 16 times. He's basically screwing up in that scenario, then admitting that he screwed up, and then coming back and screwing up again.

So he likely takes a comment or statement from Slaton about his legs being tired one day and turns it into an excuse as to why he didn't run the ball anymore the week after he said he should be running the ball more.

Sometimes Kubiak does some mysterious stuff and we just have to go with it.

That's how understood Vinny's comments. I might have gotten his meaning wrong too.
I've made this point and it goes hand in fist with the other post game comments that have me stupefied. In fairness to Kubiak he seems smart enough to learn from his mistakes but my growing frustation is that he doesn't seem to correlate his mistakes to his decisions after the fact...t's all apart of my growing dislike for Kubiak as the decision maker and Head Coach of this Franchise.

ChrisG
11-17-2008, 11:26 PM
after tonights game Slaton offically has the most rushing yards this week with 156 yards on 14 carries :jogger: