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View Full Version : Defense today's scapegoat...


TheRealJoker
11-16-2008, 03:08 PM
Had we just held up on 1 or 2 of those 3rd AND LONGS we would've seen Sage handing it off to Slaton and Green the rest of the game on easy street heading for victory.

Ryan
11-16-2008, 03:10 PM
My thoughts exactly. The offense had a solid day, but the defense was on the field the whole game, so they had no chance.

edo783
11-16-2008, 03:12 PM
Except for some notable exceptions (turn overs), our offense has been pretty darn good all season. The defense on the otherhand.............

RipTraxx
11-16-2008, 03:14 PM
Richard Smith strikes again...........:headhurts:

texanhead08
11-16-2008, 03:16 PM
Petey gets beat over and over, Reeves never looks back for the ball. It sounds like a broken record week after week. Damn it Dick if we all see it why can't you.

bah007
11-16-2008, 03:18 PM
Colts averaged about 310 per game before today.

I think they had over 450 against us.

If they don't have the six dropped passes in the first half they blow us out.

Jackie Chiles
11-16-2008, 03:20 PM
Petey gets beat over and over, Reeves never looks back for the ball. It sounds like a broken record week after week. Damn it Dick if we all see it why can't you.

Ive been a huge Fred Bennett supporter and I still am but he had a terrible game today as well. None of the corners did anything and the LBers didnt cover today either. Two plays that stick out from that standpoint are Addai's TD catch against DeMeco and the little screen on about 3rd and 14 that went for a first. Terrible.

Jackie Chiles
11-16-2008, 03:22 PM
Colts averaged about 310 per game before today.

I think they had over 450 against us.

If they don't have the six dropped passes in the first half they blow us out.

Exactly right on the dropped passes. What are the odds the coaches own up to that though? I think we will hear something along the lines of how we held them in the first half and then didnt get it done in the 2nd.

spurstexanstros
11-16-2008, 03:23 PM
Had we just held up on 1 or 2 of those 3rd AND LONGS we would've seen Sage handing it off to Slaton and Green the rest of the game on easy street heading for victory.

I think Peyton remembered Petey Faggins was covering marvin Harriosn...game over.

ziggy29
11-16-2008, 03:49 PM
I think Peyton remembered Petey Faggins was covering marvin Harriosn...game over.
I just don't understand these coaching decisions. They had Petey covering Calvin Johnson in the Detroit game too, and that almost ended up in disaster.

Lucky
11-16-2008, 03:59 PM
Ive been a huge Fred Bennett supporter and I still am but he had a terrible game today as well.
Bennett has not played as well as he did last season. Same can be said of Okoye. This coaching staff does not develop defensive players. Guys like Bennett, Okoye, and Travis Johnson have regressed as players, the more they've been exposed to this staff. I would suggest that Mario's success has come from his amazing physical gifts.

Other than LB coach Johnny Holland, the defensive assistants are worthless. If Kubiak somehow survives to as head coach in '09, Holland should be retained. If not promoted. I doubt a lame duck Kubiak could do better than Holland this offseason.

Speedy
11-16-2008, 04:01 PM
The defense is this season's scapegoat. They can't freaking make a stop when they need one all freaking year long. 3rd and longs, they haven't stopped a 4th down play all year, 96 yard passes, it just doesn't matter.

This defense stinks. They're predictable, they're bland, they have no pre-snap movement, they don't make adjustments, they can't make stops when they need them, and all of that falls on the guy running it.

IT'S TIME TO MAKE THE CHANGE NOW!!!!!

GET RID OF SMITH...PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

ATXtexanfan
11-16-2008, 04:20 PM
mario and demeco are the only guys we have on defense. everyone else sucks. we need to overhaul the D through the draft and free agency this offseason. i now believe that our DC is trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit! it's not his fault we send him to a gun fight with a slice of bread.

Hervoyel
11-16-2008, 04:29 PM
This season our opponents have scored 38, 31, 30, 31, 28, 21, 6, 28, 41, and 33 points. We are one fluke day against Cincinnati from giving away 30+ points per game. Seriously, if we take that one weird day where we allowed 6 points out and put in an average 28.7 point day then we would be allowing 30.9 points per game.

I don't know how anyone can justify that. If I were Richard Smith I'd be submitting my resignation at the end of the season out of a sense of shame for my failure. If I were a player on that defense I'd be sick to my stomach all week thinking about how much we suck and spend my every waking minute trying to correct it.

If Bob McNair retains this staff in its entirety following this season (and I'm speaking mostly to the defensive side of the ball) then I don't see how anyone can question the statement that the Texans are clearly the AFC's version of the Detroit Lions and owned by a man whose too stupid to fix his broken team. He'll basically become the one kind of owner who has a good shot at being worse than Bud Adams. That kind of owner is "incompetent". You can be an asshat. You can be stingy and get away with it if you're also shrewd. You can even be crazy and sport a Super Bowl ring or two if you earn them before you also get senile. You can do all of those things and still own a team that's loved and at least part of the time wins or "has won". What you can't do is be incompetent and that's what Bob McNair will prove he is if he doesn't fix this before next year.

CloakNNNdagger
11-16-2008, 04:44 PM
Bennett has not played as well as he did last season. Same can be said of Okoye. This coaching staff does not develop defensive players. Guys like Bennett, Okoye, and Travis Johnson have regressed as players, the more they've been exposed to this staff. I would suggest that Mario's success has come from his amazing physical gifts.

Other than LB coach Johnny Holland, the defensive assistants are worthless. If Kubiak somehow survives to as head coach in '09, Holland should be retained. If not promoted. I doubt a lame duck Kubiak could do better than Holland this offseason.


I agree with all you said. But I would like to take it one step further going as far to say that they haven't "developed" Mario either. If you watch the games carefully......especially this game, you will notice that when Mario rushes, it's ALWAYS to the outside in a big circle, trying to get to the QB from behind. He never rushes to the inside of the OT. When's the last time you saw Mario even twist to the inside. Don't think that good coaches and QBs have not picked this up on game film. With the lack of pressure never coming from any one else up the middle, the QB simply takes a step or 2 forward in the pocket, and automatically is out of Mario's reach. The coaches have not developed variations to Mario's one dimensional theme. Again, LUCKY, as you said, there is lack of development on the D side of the ball.............but I see NO EXCEPTIONS.

Nawzer
11-16-2008, 04:52 PM
We just got owned in the interior of our defense today. Except for Mario no one did anything. The lack of speed from our linebackers and our inept secondary it's just too many holes to cover up. Hopefully in the offseason we'll get rid of some of these guys and get some speed on our defense.

ATXtexanfan
11-16-2008, 04:53 PM
hard to play defense when you don't have guys to play defense

Texan JBZ
11-16-2008, 04:57 PM
hard to play defense when you don't have guys to play defense

??? There are teams out there with talent worse than the Texans that get more out of their players, say Atlanta and Miami. It isn't the players fault that they are thrust into inopportune positions. It's not the Petey's fault that they are consistently run on the field together. That's a coaching decision.

TheCD
11-16-2008, 04:59 PM
I personally think that while our defense didn't play well this game isn't on them. We're playing Peyton Manning, he always lights our defense up; they played respectably considering how they've done in the past. If anyone is a scapegoat this week it's Sage (again). All he has to do is play smart football and we likely could/would have been fine in that 2-minute drill. That's my thoughts, at least.

ATX
11-16-2008, 05:01 PM
The Dline outside of Mario needs to stop trying to get to QBs like Manning and work on putting up their hands. How many deflected passes have we had this year? None come to mind.

beerlover
11-16-2008, 05:06 PM
I agree with all you said. But I would like to take it one step further going as far to say that they haven't "developed" Mario either. If you watch the games carefully......especially this game, you will notice that when Mario rushes, it's ALWAYS to the outside in a big circle, trying to get to the QB from behind. He never rushes to the inside of the OT. When's the last time you saw Mario even twist to the inside. Don't think that good coaches and QBs have not picked this up on game film. With the lack of pressure never coming from any one else up the middle, the QB simply takes a step or 2 forward in the pocket, and automatically is out of Mario's reach. The coaches have not developed variations to Mario's one dimensional theme. Again, LUCKY, as you said, there is lack of development on the D side of the ball.............but I see NO EXCEPTIONS.

good offensive gameplanning dictates run the ball away from Mario, hence he is always chasing from the backside. the entire secondary is suspect, the linebackers poor in coverage & no pressure from the interior of the DL. simple game plan really & it works week after week after week, just run away from Mario :mario3:

ATXtexanfan
11-16-2008, 05:09 PM
??? There are teams out there with talent worse than the Texans that get more out of their players, say Atlanta and Miami. It isn't the players fault that they are thrust into inopportune positions. It's not the Petey's fault that they are consistently run on the field together. That's a coaching decision.

we don't force turnovers defensively be cause we don't have playmakers on defense. atlanta and miami are commited to running the ball , we aren't. if you run the ball well and don't turn it over you have a good chance to win. we don't run it well and we turn the ball over so we aren't miami or atlanta.

drewmar74
11-16-2008, 05:14 PM
I agree with all you said. But I would like to take it one step further going as far to say that they haven't "developed" Mario either. If you watch the games carefully......especially this game, you will notice that when Mario rushes, it's ALWAYS to the outside in a big circle, trying to get to the QB from behind. He never rushes to the inside of the OT. When's the last time you saw Mario even twist to the inside. Don't think that good coaches and QBs have not picked this up on game film. With the lack of pressure never coming from any one else up the middle, the QB simply takes a step or 2 forward in the pocket, and automatically is out of Mario's reach. The coaches have not developed variations to Mario's one dimensional theme. Again, LUCKY, as you said, there is lack of development on the D side of the ball.............but I see NO EXCEPTIONS.


Trust me, you're not the only one who has noticed.

bah007
11-16-2008, 05:29 PM
The Dline outside of Mario needs to stop trying to get to QBs like Manning and work on putting up their hands. How many deflected passes have we had this year? None come to mind.

Hard to do that from your back.

Honestly, our best pass defense would probably be to rush Mario and put 10 guys in coverage.

CloakNNNdagger
11-16-2008, 05:36 PM
good offensive gameplanning dictates run the ball away from Mario, hence he is always chasing from the backside. the entire secondary is suspect, the linebackers poor in coverage & no pressure from the interior of the DL. simple game plan really & it works week after week after week, just run away from Mario :mario3:


That's essentially what I was saying. But most of the time the QBs are not running the ball away from Mario's side. They simply step forward in the pocket to avoid his circuitous route and grasp. That makes it that much more important that Mario develop some inside moves.

threetoedpete
11-16-2008, 06:16 PM
My thoughts exactly. The offense had a solid day, but the defense was on the field the whole game, so they had no chance.

At one point , the third quarter 13:42 mark I believe is when they mentioned it...the ball possession was 14:40 Colts.....4:10 Texans. And just judging by the toss sweeps they ran against the lightest d line they'll see all season on third and one...Kubiak and the guru just damned their own o-line. The offense did not have a good day. When the Colts receivers and Manning were fumbling and stumbling around in the first half....the offense spit the bit.

threetoedpete
11-16-2008, 06:24 PM
The defense is this season's scapegoat. They can't freaking make a stop when they need one all freaking year long. 3rd and longs, they haven't stopped a 4th down play all year, 96 yard passes, it just doesn't matter.

This defense stinks. They're predictable, they're bland, they have no pre-snap movement, they don't make adjustments, they can't make stops when they need them, and all of that falls on the guy running it.

IT'S TIME TO MAKE THE CHANGE NOW!!!!!

GET RID OF SMITH...PLEASE!!!!!!!!!


I may be too simplistic....but they basically gassed their defense in the first half by throwing the ball way too much on offense. I mean it'd be one thing if we didn't know it was coming...But my Gaud man the chronicle posted the Colts game strategy over the last seven years this morning. As soon as 99 went out I looked at my wife and told her the game was over. Sure enough...Manning checked out of the passes and ran it down our throat. So what was the final time of possession stat ? Their is no logical reason....under any circumstance, to run toss sweeps at the colts defense.

bigbrewster2000
11-17-2008, 11:02 AM
mario and demeco are the only guys we have on defense. everyone else sucks. we need to overhaul the D through the draft and free agency this offseason. i now believe that our DC is trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit! it's not his fault we send him to a gun fight with a slice of bread.

Nope. I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Our defensive players on the whole dont suck. We have at least middle of the road talent on most areas of the defense. You are right to pull Mario and Demeco out of the group because they have superstar potential talent. Mario proves that every game. Demeco looks like he might be playing hurt because he is playing a step slow. He still makes plays though. We could go through the rest of the roster but the fact is the front seven could use a pass rusher opposite Mario and they would be a good group. The secondary has servicable guys at all positions that are setup for failure every week by Richard Smith.

Say what you want about Petey. He should not be allowed to play off the reciever 8 yds on a 3rd and 8 situation. Play the dang safety over the top and let Petey sit on the 8 yd route. Thats coaching.

Waiting til the end of the game to blitz on 3rd down, is a MAJOR coaching issue. Especially when its proven that Peyton Manning does not do as well against Blitzing teams, as opposed to just sitting back and letting him pick you apart which he did all day yesterday. Coaching problem.

Why are you dropping 9 into coverage a 3rd time when it failed the other 2 times. Especially when it goes directly against what works in slowing down Manning. Coaching problem.

And dont get me wrong because every team can use upgrades in talent. The Texans are no different but the players that we have dont suck nearly as much as the scheme that they are put in by the coach.




And about the tread title: saying that our defense is the "scapegoat" assumes that another part of the team was the actual reason why we lost and the defense is getting blamed unjustly. As far as Im concerned the defense should be taking the blame.......well the Defensice Coordinator that is.

BigBull17
11-17-2008, 11:41 AM
I agree with all you said. But I would like to take it one step further going as far to say that they haven't "developed" Mario either. If you watch the games carefully......especially this game, you will notice that when Mario rushes, it's ALWAYS to the outside in a big circle, trying to get to the QB from behind. He never rushes to the inside of the OT. When's the last time you saw Mario even twist to the inside. Don't think that good coaches and QBs have not picked this up on game film. With the lack of pressure never coming from any one else up the middle, the QB simply takes a step or 2 forward in the pocket, and automatically is out of Mario's reach. The coaches have not developed variations to Mario's one dimensional theme. Again, LUCKY, as you said, there is lack of development on the D side of the ball.............but I see NO EXCEPTIONS.

Thats a really good point. He doesnt have any kind of moves or tricks. He is just more talented than everyone. He KILLED Ugho yesterday. Then we moved him around and they were able to put a TE outside of him and make his rush too long to matter. Thats when you leave him head up on the Tackle and put an olb to prevent the outside run. Oh wait, ours all suck...

cuppacoffee
11-17-2008, 12:23 PM
Thats a really good point. He doesnt have any kind of moves or tricks. He is just more talented than everyone. He KILLED Ugho yesterday. Then we moved him around and they were able to put a TE outside of him and make his rush too long to matter. Thats when you leave him head up on the Tackle and put an olb to prevent the outside run. Oh wait, ours all suck...


Admittedly I only watched about five minutes of the game ( all my stomach could handle) but in that five minutes I saw Mario rushing in an outside circular rush (as mentioned by another poster earlier). Ugoh just pushed Mario further outside and Peyton stepped up. I didn't see Mario killing Ugoh while I was watching.

Travis, Amobi and Mario are first round picks. Our scouting/luck cannot be that bad that we draft two busts and one unimproving player. It has to be a lack of coaching.

Richard Smith needs to go. If Kubiak cannot fulfill his duty and replace him, and several of the defensive assistants, then Kubiak needs to go too.

:coffee:

dskillz
11-17-2008, 12:37 PM
Except for some notable exceptions (turn overs), our offense has been pretty darn good all season. The defense on the otherhand.............

Those notable exeptions are pretty huge. You cannot ignore those turnovers.

I might be the only one, but I feel our defense is alot better than we have shown. Heck, these same players (for the most part) were better last year. The defensive gameplan hasn't made a lick of sense to me during most games.

I think it is safe to say both sides of the ball have been bad this season.

DerekLee1
11-17-2008, 12:56 PM
SCAPEGOAT: (n.) /SKAYP-gote/ : someone who is punished for the errors of others.

Our defense is no "scapegoat". They're the CAUSE of the bulk of our losses.

swtbound07
11-17-2008, 01:18 PM
defense is EVERY weeks start and end point for losses. What do these numbers mean to you?

38
31
30
31
28
21
6
28
41
33

28.7

bigbrewster2000
11-17-2008, 01:19 PM
defense is EVERY weeks start and end point for losses. What do these numbers mean to you?

38
31
30
31
28
21
6
28
41
33

28.7
It means that Richard Smith should no longer be employed by the Texans.

disaacks3
11-17-2008, 02:14 PM
I think it is safe to say both sides of the ball have been bad this season.
I've gotta disagree. The Offensive turnovers are certainly a huge factor, but are almost exclusively on the QB. Our Offensive has produced big numbers on almost everyone we've faced. As lowly as our Defense is rated, our Offense is the reverse.

I mark this as the year that the Offense starting "gelling" and showing what a Shanahan / Kubiak Offensive gameplan CAN look like.

I also suspect that this will be the end of Richard Smith in Houston. We either lack the coaching or the personnel to contain anybody other than the Bungles for 4 quarters. I think some of our talent is woeful, but it could be mitigated by better coaching choices. (Think Petey Faggins on an island, Mario ALWAYS upfield to the outside and 12-yd. cushions on 3rd and 10)

Vinny
11-17-2008, 02:19 PM
Admittedly I only watched about five minutes of the game ( all my stomach could handle) but in that five minutes I saw Mario rushing in an outside circular rush (as mentioned by another poster earlier). Ugoh just pushed Mario further outside and Peyton stepped up. I didn't see Mario killing Ugoh while I was watching.

Travis, Amobi and Mario are first round picks. Our scouting/luck cannot be that bad that we draft two busts and one unimproving player. It has to be a lack of coaching.

Richard Smith needs to go. If Kubiak cannot fulfill his duty and replace him, and several of the defensive assistants, then Kubiak needs to go too.

:coffee:It's both. Coaching puts your players in the position to make plays. Players separate themselves by making plays that the coaches set them up to make. I see players in poor positions to make plays and I also see players losing one on one battles where they get beat physically. For instance I don't think a DT tandem of Okoye and TJ would be any good on any NFL team right now...we have the synergistic effects of not being successful in both areas.