PDA

View Full Version : Right Now, I want Gary Kubiak Fired!


WesmanTexanfan
11-16-2008, 04:07 PM
Ok, if the man does somthng insane to impress me over the rest of the season then I am open to change. But right now I feel like the whole coaching staff can't execute, and I want them gone, I want an agggresive coach who demands execution.

hmm?

TexanSam
11-16-2008, 04:08 PM
Can't blame Kubiak for today's loss.

WesmanTexanfan
11-16-2008, 04:08 PM
We have enough good players to have a winning record. Good coaches make Ok players look Good, and Bad Coaches make Good players look....ehhh....

WesmanTexanfan
11-16-2008, 04:09 PM
Can't blame Kubiak for today's loss.

I can blame him for the weeks and events leading up to and adding up to a loss...

Maddict5
11-16-2008, 04:09 PM
:yawn:

dtran04
11-16-2008, 04:11 PM
His playcalling was pretty good today. He took the ball away from Sage until he had to let him throw it. We know what happened with that.

TexanSam
11-16-2008, 04:11 PM
I can blame him for the weeks and events leading up to and adding up to a loss...

There's a lot of blame to go around. Kubiak takes part of it. The other coaches should take part of it, and the players do too. I'm not blaming this entire disastrous season on Kubiak.

If anything, I blame more of it on the quarterbacks. Kubiak can have Schaub and Rosenfels ready to play, but he can't stop them from making boneheaded plays that cause turnovers which then cost us games.

There will be coaches and players gone after this season, but I don't think Kubiak will be one of them.

valleytexfan
11-16-2008, 04:12 PM
There's a lot of blame to go around. Kubiak takes part of it. The other coaches should take part of it, and the players do too. I'm not blaming this entire disastrous season on Kubiak.

If anything, I blame more of it on the quarterbacks. Kubiak can have Schaub and Rosenfels ready to play, but he can't stop them from making boneheaded plays that cause turnovers which then cost us games.

There will be coaches and players gone after this season, but I don't think Kubiak will be one of them.


:goodpost:

HOU-TEX
11-16-2008, 04:13 PM
Bad thread. The only thing you can blame Kubiak for is not kicking SmithDC in the ball sack.

Ckw
11-16-2008, 04:14 PM
Here comes out weekly emotional reaction. The main guy that needs to be axed right now is Dick Smith. There is no reason for him to still be coaching the defense of this team.

I doubt we find a QB in the draft so right now our only shot at the playoffs next season is to stack our defense. Get a good cover safety, a DE opposite of Mario, and hopefully an OLB and CB in FA. We'll see. Sucks to already be looking forward to next year...

edo783
11-16-2008, 04:14 PM
Bad thread. The only thing you can blame Kubiak for is not kicking SmithDC in the ball sack.

Yup

markn
11-16-2008, 04:14 PM
Last series aside the offense played a fine game today. The only blame you can assign to Kubiak is that he has been a coward when it comes to making the change everybody knows we need on defense.

It's too late now for this season, but in not firing Richard Smith, Kubiak has put his own job on the line.

TexanSam
11-16-2008, 04:15 PM
Here comes out weekly emotional reaction. The main guy that needs to be axed right now is Dick Smith. There is no reason for him to still be coaching the defense of this team.

I doubt we find a QB in the draft so right now our only shot at the playoffs next season is to stack our defense. Get a good cover safety, a DE opposite of Mario, and hopefully an OLB and CB in FA. We'll see. Sucks to already be looking forward to next year...

Jeff Garcia and Kurt Warner are free agents after this season...:D

markn
11-16-2008, 04:15 PM
Bad thread. The only thing you can blame Kubiak for is not kicking SmithDC in the ball sack.

Heh - beat me to it.

brakos82
11-16-2008, 04:15 PM
Bad thread. The only thing you can blame Kubiak for is not kicking SmithDC in the ball sack.
Didn't know he had one...

TexansSeminole
11-16-2008, 04:16 PM
I thought Kubiak coached a good game actually. Looked like he had the team prepared too. Our defense is very easy to move the ball on, and we ended up having a chance to win the game at the end there but Sage is Sage.

We need to build this defense and get a QB who is on the same page as our coach and doesn't make bonehead mistakes constantly. Schaub still has time and another year atleast to prove himself here and I feel Kubiak does as well. We need to think strongly about acquiring a QB either through the draft or off FA to take Sage's job because he is done here. His career as a QB who actually gets PT is probably over.

Richard Smith continues to show us why he will be fired come end of season. His coverage schemes are laughable.

J-Russ
11-16-2008, 04:17 PM
Right now I want Rosencopter & Smith fired... Well actually I wanted them fired about 5 weeks ago. can't always get what you want.. no matter how much those players/coach blows. Just wait til the end of the season.

brakos82
11-16-2008, 04:18 PM
I think we need Jeff George or Vinny Testaverde.... we need a veteran who knows what he's doing...

AnthonyE
11-16-2008, 04:18 PM
Kubiak's offense scored almost 30 points and didn't allow a turnover until Sage's awful throw. I won't blame him for this loss.

Ckw
11-16-2008, 04:18 PM
There's a lot of blame to go around. Kubiak takes part of it. The other coaches should take part of it, and the players do too. I'm not blaming this entire disastrous season on Kubiak.

If anything, I blame more of it on the quarterbacks. Kubiak can have Schaub and Rosenfels ready to play, but he can't stop them from making boneheaded plays that cause turnovers which then cost us games.

There will be coaches and players gone after this season, but I don't think Kubiak will be one of them.

What is that? Logic? I didn't know there was any in an emotionally charged threads like this one.

Can't all the Kubiak haters just stop making their own thread and simply use one of the dozens that have already been made? Just do a quick search and stop wasting space with the useless drivel.

b0ng
11-16-2008, 04:18 PM
I want smith fired not kubiak. The offense is good enough to warrant keeping him as long as he does everything he can to improve the defense

Lucky
11-16-2008, 04:19 PM
If anything, I blame more of it on the quarterbacks. Kubiak can have Schaub and Rosenfels ready to play, but he can't stop them from making boneheaded plays that cause turnovers which then cost us games.
Isn't keeping the QBs from making boneheaded plays part of having them ready to play? :confused:

Gary Kubiak is the new Coach Teflon.

Ckw
11-16-2008, 04:19 PM
Jeff Garcia and Kurt Warner are free agents after this season...:D

Sadly, that sounds alright to me!

RipTraxx
11-16-2008, 04:19 PM
Bad thread. The only thing you can blame Kubiak for is not kicking SmithDC in the ball sack.

AMEN!:aggressive:

The1ApplePie
11-16-2008, 04:20 PM
Kubiak's offense scored almost 30 points and didn't allow a turnover until Sage's awful throw. I won't blame him for this loss.

Most of it was just Slaton taking the team on his back. Otherwise it was the same old play calling

spurstexanstros
11-16-2008, 04:21 PM
Bad thread. The only thing you can blame Kubiak for is not kicking SmithDC in the ball sack.

Amen thread over.....Kubiak and o (not even sage) are not to blame for this loss look at defense

Runner
11-16-2008, 04:22 PM
Isn't keeping the QBs from making boneheaded plays part of having them ready to play? :confused:

Gary Kubiak is the new Coach Teflon.

It shouldn't be overlooked that Kubiak hand selected them and didn't make them compete for the job. He wouldn't even hold a competition between Sage and Ragone for back-up. What would it have hurt?

QB play should be very much on Kubiak.

Ckw
11-16-2008, 04:22 PM
Right now I want Rosencopter & Smith fired... Well actually I wanted them fired about 5 weeks ago. can't always get what you want.. no matter how much those players/coach blows. Just wait til the end of the season.

I'm with you man. Our FO is laughable for not doing something sooner. Numerous other teams are trying to get started under a new regime now. It isn't like we don't have a capable guy to take over. And at least if we had fired Smith 5 weeks ago and put Frank Bush in as the DC, we would at least know what we have. Man this sucks!

WesmanTexanfan
11-16-2008, 04:23 PM
I like Kubiak, I really do.

Its hard for him to win me over 100% though when he surrounds himself with shit.

I dont blame him for this loss, but his decissions hurt us this year...

TexanSam
11-16-2008, 04:24 PM
Isn't keeping the QBs from making boneheaded plays part of having them ready to play? :confused:

Gary Kubiak is the new Coach Teflon.

I don't think Kubiak can prevent Schuab and/or Rosenfels from throwing into double coverage. He can get on them every week, but when they keep doing it I don't think it's due to Kubiak not having them prepared. I think it's because neither guy is nothing more than (at times) an average NFL quarterback.

Showtime100
11-16-2008, 04:26 PM
Here comes out weekly emotional reaction.

Speak for yourself. I'll handle the loss with quiet dignity and grace. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC-mO-WtVJo) :specnatz:

markn
11-16-2008, 04:29 PM
That's twice we've scored 27 points against the Colts this season. In all but two of their other games that total would have won. As much as Rosenfels interception hurts, you cannot put this defeat on the offense.

brakos82
11-16-2008, 04:29 PM
Speak for yourself. I'll handle the loss with quiet dignity and grace. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC-mO-WtVJo) :specnatz:
I assume I should turn down the volume...

Lucky
11-16-2008, 04:31 PM
I think it's because neither guy is nothing more than (at times) an average NFL quarterback.
Maybe. Definitely, in regards to Rosenfels. But, have you considered the possibility that Kubiak is a less than average NFL head coach? That's what his career record of 17-25 (4-12 vs AFC South) suggests.

Ckw
11-16-2008, 04:33 PM
Speak for yourself. I'll handle the loss with quiet dignity and grace. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC-mO-WtVJo) :specnatz:

That was hilarious!

Ckw
11-16-2008, 04:35 PM
Maybe. Definitely, in regards to Rosenfels. But, have you considered the possibility that Kubiak is a less than average NFL head coach? That's what his career record of 17-25 (4-12 vs AFC South) suggests.

I think you have to factor in the major hole this franchise was in when he got here.

Runner
11-16-2008, 04:38 PM
I think you have to factor in the major hole this franchise was in when he got here.


I swear we'll hear this excuse in 2012.

ziggy29
11-16-2008, 04:40 PM
(Regarding Kubes being 4-12 within the division)

I think you have to factor in the major hole this franchise was in when he got here.
That and that it is usually one of the stronger divisions in the NFL.

Lucky
11-16-2008, 04:41 PM
I think you have to factor in the major hole this franchise was in when he got here.
McNair gave Kubiak the job of turning the franchise around and building a winner. How's that going so far? Kubiak isn't the head coach of the offense. He's the head coach of the Houston Texans. He's handpicked the vast majority of players and coaches on this team. Including both QBs & the defensive coordinator. When does Gary Kubiak become accountable?

Runner
11-16-2008, 04:44 PM
(Regarding Kubes being 4-12 within the division)


That and that it is usually one of the stronger divisions in the NFL.

We should petition the NFL to create a division with the Texans, Lions, Bengals, and Raiders in it. That might finally be fair to this team. :rolleyes:

nut
11-16-2008, 04:46 PM
We are 3-7 in Kubiak's 3rd year. Kubiak is the man in charge. The kool-aid drinkers defending Carr blamed everything on the O-line and now they blame the DC. This just in - we are one of the worst teams in the NFL just like we've always been. Time for a change.

Ckw
11-16-2008, 04:49 PM
I swear we'll hear this excuse in 2012.

That's quite an exaggeration.

Ckw
11-16-2008, 04:54 PM
We are 3-7 in Kubiak's 3rd year. Kubiak is the man in charge. The kool-aid drinkers defending Carr blamed everything on the O-line and now they blame the DC. This just in - we are one of the worst teams in the NFL just like we've always been. Time for a change.

We should have beaten Indy @ home. We should have been Jac but lost on a OT field goal. We could have beaten the Vikings but looked terrible in the 2nd half, AGAIN! And should have beaten Indy today. That puts us at 7-3. We have lost those 4 games by 20 points. A 20 point swing could be the difference in our season. And where do those 20 points comes from? Turnovers! And that cannot be blamed on the coach.

ziggy29
11-16-2008, 04:57 PM
And where do those 20 points comes from? Turnovers! And that cannot be blamed on the coach.
To a degree. But if the coaches aren't sufficiently emphasizing taking care of the football, you can't let them completely off the hook, either.

Not committing turnovers is at least *partially* coachable.

nut
11-16-2008, 04:58 PM
We should have beaten Indy @ home. We should have been Jac but lost on a OT field goal. We could have beaten the Vikings but looked terrible in the 2nd half, AGAIN! And should have beaten Indy today. That puts us at 7-3. We have lost those 4 games by 20 points. A 20 point swing could be the difference in our season. And where do those 20 points comes from? Turnovers! And that cannot be blamed on the coach.

Shoulda woulda coulda. We are 3-7 in his third year and we have never had a winning year in our existence. You can make whatever excuses you want, the results speak for themselves.

Lucky
11-16-2008, 05:02 PM
The kool-aid drinkers defending Carr blamed everything on the O-line and now they blame the DC.
Nice analogy. I should know, I was a Carr apologist.

Runner
11-16-2008, 05:06 PM
That's quite an exaggeration.

That's only four more years, so I wouldn't be surprised. Seeing as they still need a QB, o-linemen, a second RB, d-linemen, LBs and DBs I can see why it would still be the first regime's fault. After all, these are the same holes they left Kubiak with. Is it Kubiak's fault they haven't improved any of them outside of one defensive end, one linebacker, and a marginal upgrade with a QB who misses 1/3 of the games?

ATXtexanfan
11-16-2008, 05:14 PM
kubiak is an offense minded guy, 2 problems with the texans. qb turnovers, and defense sucks. he can't stop the qb's from giving the ball away and the D sucks.

Ckw
11-16-2008, 05:25 PM
To a degree. But if the coaches aren't sufficiently emphasizing taking care of the football, you can't let them completely off the hook, either.

Not committing turnovers is at least *partially* coachable.

That's where you're wrong. The number one priority during the offseason, according to Kubiak, was taking care of the football. Our guys just aren't doing it.

So yes, partially coachable, but mostly it falls on the players.

Nawzer
11-16-2008, 05:30 PM
I don't necessarily agree with firing Kubiak sentiment, but I will admit his play calling has been very strange. Specially early in the game today when we were at the Colts redzone, it was clear to me that you run the ball but he elected to pass and it was a horrible play call. Also, we saw the Texans trying to stretch out the Indy defense, which is a bad strategy imo because they have so much speed and they swarm to the ball. Once we started running the ball up the middle we saw great success. I think Kubiak, Shanahan need to get things sorted out and start using common sense more.

hollywood_texan
11-16-2008, 05:31 PM
There's a lot of blame to go around. Kubiak takes part of it. The other coaches should take part of it, and the players do too. I'm not blaming this entire disastrous season on Kubiak.

If anything, I blame more of it on the quarterbacks. Kubiak can have Schaub and Rosenfels ready to play, but he can't stop them from making boneheaded plays that cause turnovers which then cost us games.

There will be coaches and players gone after this season, but I don't think Kubiak will be one of them.

Kubiak has done a miserable job handling the QB position, which is suppose to be his strength.

Keeping Kubiak has nothing do with blaming him for a disastrous season, the question is has Kubiak shown anything that he can produce a playoff team?

The answer to that question appears to be NO. He has shown repeatedly that he is a poor evaluator of talent, suspect play caller, no clock management skills, and the list goes on and on.

My question to you is what are Kubiak's strengths and how do those strengths, if any, produce a playoff team in the AFC South? After that question is answered, then you can come to a conclusion if Kubiak should come back next year.

Maddict5
11-16-2008, 05:38 PM
The answer to that question appears to be NO. He has shown repeatedly that he is a poor evaluator of talent, suspect play caller, no clock management skills, and the list goes on and on.


please.. i think kubiak's record in nearly all those departments stand up pretty well in comparison to every other HC in the league (especially talent evaluation and play calling). he has made numerous mistakes but believe it or not but every single HC does it

hollywood_texan
11-16-2008, 05:41 PM
please.. i think kubiak's record in nearly all those departments stand up pretty well in comparison to every other HC in the league (especially talent evaluation and play calling). he has made numerous mistakes but believe it or not but every single HC does it

Sure everyone makes mistakes, but please list direct evidence of great decisions. There isn't any, or they are few and far between.

Kubiak is just like Carr in that half the fan base just wants to just make excuses and hand out more chances.

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 06:09 PM
So once you fire Kubiak and all the same problems manifest themselves in the new regime, or worse - a regression - who are you going to blame then?

Runner
11-16-2008, 06:16 PM
So once you fire Kubiak and all the same problems manifest themselves in the new regime, or worse - a regression - who are you going to blame then?

There is no one to blame. It is no one's fault. It isn't possible for the Texans to be better than they are.

We live in the best of all possible worlds.

Vinny
11-16-2008, 06:17 PM
So once you fire Kubiak and all the same problems manifest themselves in the new regime, or worse - a regression - who are you going to blame then?
Kubiak has been an awful coach in just about any way you measure a NFL team except for the passing game, which is exceptional...but the last time I checked guys like Mike Martz bounce around the league and June Jones coaches SMU.

drewmar74
11-16-2008, 06:19 PM
I think we need Jeff George or Vinny Testaverde.... we need a veteran who knows what he's doing...

Hmmm.... I wonder if one of those is available? :thinking:

At least Jeff George would punish the defenders' hands by breaking fingers as they pick him off!

nut
11-16-2008, 06:25 PM
So once you fire Kubiak and all the same problems manifest themselves in the new regime, or worse - a regression - who are you going to blame then?

Even if you end up with the same losing crap, what have you lost? You are in the same boat and at least you're taking a swing. As far as a regression goes, would it be that hard to find a coach capable of producing the remarkably successful record of 3-7?

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 06:27 PM
There is no one to blame. It is no one's fault. It isn't possible for the Texans to be better than they are.

We live in the best of all possible worlds.

Kubiak has been an awful coach in just about any way you measure a NFL team except for the passing game, which is exceptional...but the last time I checked guys like Mike Martz bounce around the league and June Jones coaches SMU.

Maybe, but that wasn't what I asked.

IMO, the problems on this team ran much deeper than any one coach could fix in four years, and though they are better, I still think we are way short on personnel. Some of that is Kubiak's fault, but some of it is just too many positions to fill.

Ehh, whatever, though. I am not of the opinion that Kubiak is a great coach; I just think people are too quick to jump on the HC firing bandwagon. Firing Kubiak won't solve a thing right now.

Vinny
11-16-2008, 06:29 PM
Maybe, but that wasn't what I asked.

IMO, the problems on this team ran much deeper than any one coach could fix in four years, and though they are better, I still think we are way short on personnel. Some of that is Kubiak's fault, but some of it is just too many positions to fill.

Ehh, whatever, though. I am not of the opinion that Kubiak is a great coach; I just think people are too quick to jump on the HC firing bandwagon. Firing Kubiak won't solve a thing right now.
please, spare me....you don't need half a decade to turn around a NFL team.

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 06:29 PM
Even if you end up with the same losing crap, what have you lost? You are in the same boat and at least you're taking a swing. As far as a regression goes, would it be that hard to find a coach capable of producing the remarkably successful record of 3-7?

Continuity and whatever forward progress was being made. Teams have down years in rebuilding cycles. Hell, the Cowboys went 10-6 and then 6-10 the next year, Fans were pissed, but it happens. Look at the Saints. They went to the playoffs and then they regressed. It happens. I'm not saying it's any better or worse here, or that those examples justify our problems, but firing the HC wasn't the solution there, and probably won't be here, either.

Carry on with your misdirected witch hunt, though.

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 06:30 PM
please, spare me....you don't need half a decade to turn around a NFL team.

Tell that to Lions, Bengals, Raiders, Bills, etc. fans. They keep firing and hiring coaches, and it's worked out real well for them, huh?

Vinny
11-16-2008, 06:38 PM
Tell that to Lions, Bengals, Raiders, Bills, etc. fans. They keep firing and hiring coaches, and it's worked out real well for them, huh?
great, you lump us in with the incompetent franchises franchises of the league as if it is something acceptable. Every league has 'em, but most teams can figure this out except for a few exceptions...I guess we are in this exclusive cellar dweller club.

Vinny
11-16-2008, 06:40 PM
Continuity and whatever forward progress was being made. Teams have down years in rebuilding cycles. Hell, the Cowboys went 10-6 and then 6-10 the next year, Fans were pissed, but it happens. Look at the Saints. They went to the playoffs and then they regressed. It happens. I'm not saying it's any better or worse here, or that those examples justify our problems, but firing the HC wasn't the solution there, and probably won't be here, either.

Carry on with your misdirected witch hunt, though.

lol, I remember why we had a tenuous relationship in the early days of the board...you were one of those guys chastising people for wanting to get rid of David Carr.

Hervoyel
11-16-2008, 06:40 PM
Tell that to Lions, Bengals, Raiders, Bills, etc. fans. They keep firing and hiring coaches, and it's worked out real well for them, huh?

Yeah but it's entirely plausible to say that the Lions, Bengals, Raiders, and Bills have been hiring crappy coach after crappy coach. I mean really what have any of these franchises done in recent years to make you believe that they could tell shite from shinola?

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 06:43 PM
great, you lump us in with the incompetent franchises franchises of the league as if it is something acceptable. Every league has 'em, but most teams can figure this out except for a few exceptions...I guess we are in this exclusive cellar dweller club.

That's kind of my point. We are among this caliber of competition. There's no reason to delude ourselves any longer. If we were even as good as the Bills are right now, or maybe the Saints, or TB .... then I'd say we are a HC away from turning it around, maybe. Right now. we aren't. We are a lot of defensive players and a QB away from turning it around. And the only reason we're that close is because of Kubiak. We've all come to take for granted that we have an offensive line that's good enough that we can focus on QB now. We take for granted that we have skill position players good enough to make plays. And somehow, we've been lulled into believing that a defense with two good players on it is good enough to compete.

We are only as good as we are right now because of Kubiak and Rick Smith. So I guess we could fire them, but I honestly don't think it will make one bit of positive difference. It will most likely have a seriously negative effect.

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 06:44 PM
Yeah but it's entirely plausible to say that the Lions, Bengals, Raiders, and Bills have been hiring crappy coach after crappy coach. I mean really what have any of these franchises done in recent years to make you believe that they could tell shite from shinola?

What have we done to make you think we wouldn't hire crappy coach after crappy coach after crappy coach? We at least have some indication that Kubiak can bring in good personnel.

Vinny
11-16-2008, 06:48 PM
What have we done to make you think we wouldn't hire crappy coach after crappy coach after crappy coach? We at least have some indication that Kubiak can bring in good personnel.
based on what? Being in week 12 with two of our three wins coming from winless franchises?...kinda like the ones you listed when you made a list of crappy franchises.

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 06:50 PM
lol, I remember why we had a tenuous relationship in the early days of the board...you were one of those guys chastising people for wanting to get rid of David Carr.

No, the real reason then was the same as it is now - you aren't understanding the subtlety of my argument. I argued then that we needed a solid offensive line or QB play was going to continue to be a problem. People that troubleshoot for a living have a tendency to try and divide and conquer. Remove the biggest problems first and try and work from there. My opinion then was that the O-line was the biggest problem from 2002-2004. Carr got much worse after that point, and became one of the bigger parts of the problem.

Same thing with Kubiak, really. We have a crapload of bad personnel. If you could tell me we would hire a coach like Cowher, I'd be 100% on board with rhe fire Kubiak guys. If you're suggesting we fire Kubiak because "the buck stops here", then I can't get on board with that logic. Again, it's not that I love Kubiak as a coach - I'd prefer someone like Cowher, or even Schottenheimer. But that's how clear cut it would need to be to really separate the coaching quality from the rest of the problems on this team. That's all I'm saying.

Vinny
11-16-2008, 06:53 PM
No, the real reason then was the same as it is now - you aren't understanding the subtlety of my argument. I argued then that we needed a solid offensive line or QB play was going to continue to be a problem. People that troubleshoot for a living have a tendency to try and divide and conquer. Remove the biggest problems first and try and work from there. My opinion then was that the O-line was the biggest problem from 2002-2004. Carr got much worse after that point, and became one of the bigger parts of the problem.

Same thing with Kubiak, really. We have a crapload of bad personnel. If you could tell me we would hire a coach like Cowher, I'd be 100% on board with rhe fire Kubiak guys. If you're suggesting we fire Kubiak because "the buck stops here", then I can't get on board with that logic. Again, it's not that I love Kubiak as a coach - I'd prefer someone like Cowher, or even Schottenheimer. But that's how clear cut it would need to be to really separate the coaching quality from the rest of the problems on this team. That's all I'm saying.
Who picked this personel? Much has been made of the team getting rid of the old players and now three years later we have "kubiak's guys". What we are looking at is a top notch passing game and nothing else to speak of...that wins you as many games as Denny Green. Kubiak will replace Sherman soon and it won't be soon enough for me.

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 06:54 PM
based on what? Being in week 12 with two of our three wins coming from winless franchises?...kinda like the ones you listed when you made a list of crappy franchises.

*sigh*

Based on what they have brought in.

Owen Daniels > his predecessor.
Eric Winston > his predecessor.
Salaam > his predecessors.
Brown will be better than Salaam.
Schaub > his predecessor.

I'm not going down the whole list. All I'm saying is that he has built us to be as good as we are, but we're still not there. If you have a coach in mind who can speed the process, I'm all on board. It won't happen, though. Overall, this team is a long way away, just as the teams I mentioned. A couple of the ones I mentioned are likely moving in the right direction, while others aren't. I think we are, but it sure as hell is hard to watch.

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 06:57 PM
Who picked this personel? Much has been made of the team getting rid of the old players and now three years later we have "kubiak's guys". What we are looking at is a top notch passing game and nothing else to speak of...that wins you as many games as Denny Green. Kubiak will replace Sherman soon and it won't be soon enough for me.

I posted in another thread my problems with Smithiak's free agency moves. They've failed on any FA move that involved a guy with a track record, just about. In the draft, I think they've done well. So it's a trade-off. As I said, I am not in love with the idea of Kubak as a HC. I just think we have bigger problems. If Kubiak is the biggest problem with this team, in your mind, then that's fine. I'll just disagree. I don't disagree that he is part of the problem, but I disagree with the idea that removing him will fix any of the more major ones we face.

Hervoyel
11-16-2008, 07:00 PM
What have we done to make you think we wouldn't hire crappy coach after crappy coach after crappy coach? We at least have some indication that Kubiak can bring in good personnel.

Well, I have to confess that I voted to give Kubiak another year but I did so with my reasoning being (and stated) that I didn't have any faith that Bob McNair had any chance of finding a coach who could win here UNLESS he went out and paid top dollar for a proven winner in the mold of say Bill Parcells, Marty Shotenheimer, or Bill Cowher. I mean this guy (McNair) isn't going to go out and pluck a Jeff Fisher off the pile unless he gets just dumb lucky (which is kind of the way Bud Adams found Fisher if I remember correctly).

Still, I have to advocate taking that blind shot in the dark to try and find a good coach over just standing pat for years and years with a guy who isn't taking your team anywhere. I mean, at this point it's kind of hard to ignore the fact that Gary Kubiak is "at best" no better in the W/L column than Dom Capers was. He's posted his 6-10 season with the team he inherited from Dom (remarkably similar to what Dom got out of them wasn't it?) and he's posted his 7-9 season (that actually came out 8-8 since the Jags gave us one to end the year). So now he's going to give us his version of Dom's 2-14 year and drive the Texans to a 3-13 finish?

I've read this book. I know how it ends. I want the Texans to go out and get someone to drag this team, kicking and screaming if necessary into "maturity". It's time to either fix it or go ahead and embrace the horror of having the AFC's version of the Detroit Lions. If we're going "loveable loser" with this team then the Texans can count me out.

If the Texans go into the offseason and start chopping heads on the defensive side I'll have a little hope for 2009 because Richard Smith doesn't get anything out of these players and has them doing just plain ridiculous stuff every series. If we stand pat for another year then I'm going to change "little hope" to "no hope".

I still give Kubiak another year. I just do it out of lack of faith in the owner as opposed to any confidence that Gary is going to be HC material. He's proven to me already that he ain't the guy.

nut
11-16-2008, 07:02 PM
Continuity and whatever forward progress was being made. Teams have down years in rebuilding cycles. Hell, the Cowboys went 10-6 and then 6-10 the next year, Fans were pissed, but it happens. Look at the Saints. They went to the playoffs and then they regressed. It happens. I'm not saying it's any better or worse here, or that those examples justify our problems, but firing the HC wasn't the solution there, and probably won't be here, either.

Carry on with your misdirected witch hunt, though.

What continuity? The continuity of losing is all we have. Why don't you want to win? There is no reason to think anybody is better than everybody else available just because they have an affiliation with the Texans. The use of your term witch hunt shows an emotional non-logical reaction.

Thorn
11-16-2008, 07:04 PM
We are on the verge of having an offense that can compete with anyone, well, if we had a QB that is. But the point I'm trying to make is we've made substantial improvement on the offensive side of the ball. If the DC is replaced with someone good, we are on our way. I want Kubiak to have another year or two with SOMEONE ELSE AT DC before we go sacking what could be a good thing.

MannyFresh
11-16-2008, 07:30 PM
Jeff Garcia and Kurt Warner are free agents after this season...:D

So is Matt Cassel.

CloakNNNdagger
11-16-2008, 07:34 PM
For those who continue to advocate giving the coaches and players more and more time, I would direct you to an age old saying "Time waits for no one"........and it hasn't since 2002.

The1ApplePie
11-16-2008, 07:41 PM
Kubes doesn't get the "Bad before I got here" argument

Mangini
Sporano
Payton
Smith
Harbuagh

All of them turned their teams around quickly. Even Kiffin was making a good dent before he got canned

Vinny
11-16-2008, 07:41 PM
We are on the verge of having an offense that can compete with anyone, well, if we had a QB that is. But the point I'm trying to make is we've made substantial improvement on the offensive side of the ball. If the DC is replaced with someone good, we are on our way. I want Kubiak to have another year or two with SOMEONE ELSE AT DC before we go sacking what could be a good thing.
That's what we will get but some of us aren't really all that excited about getting Denny Green style coaching without those eloquent post game tirades. It feels like the .500 shuffle.

Second Honeymoon
11-16-2008, 07:42 PM
That's quite an exaggeration.

sadly, its not an excuse. its reality.

what would need to happen for you to realize that Gary is a poor head coach? what needs to happen? is there any scenario where you would finally come to terms with the idea that Gary just plain sucks?

would it take 3-13? worse? would it take 2 more years of bad football..or just one more...or God forbid, 3 more?

i guess what I am asking is what has Gary ever done to earn your loyalty and what HASN'T he done to make you question his ability as a head coach.

everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there has to be a line drawn at some point. you can't just go on the rest of your life blindly homering for the local football coach. there has to be limits and there has to be some breaking/boiling point.

gary should be fired for simply not firing Richard Smith this past offseason. it was common knowledge that the guy sucked yet we made no move to improve the situation. we also failed to identify areas of personnel improvement for our FO. Kris Jenkins should have been signed but we were too married to our worthless DTs...and YES THAT INCLUDES AMOBI. DUDE PLAIN SUCKS RIGHT ABOUT NOW. it sucks but its true.

Just fire the guy and get it over with. Bring in Marty and the rest of his family to assemble a coaching staff that isn't so damn pathetic. that would be a start. Marty is the perfect guy to come in and I think he would bring in someone who actually has a ball sack to coach the defense. isn't it funny how we just let Peyton sit back in the pocket game after game and own us? we dont do any movement or disguising and we are so damn passive it makes me sick.

screw kubiak
screw smith (richard)
screw sage
and if things dont change soon...
screw mcnair and his freaking loser texans

HoustonFrog
11-16-2008, 08:12 PM
We should have beaten Indy @ home. We should have been Jac but lost on a OT field goal. We could have beaten the Vikings but looked terrible in the 2nd half, AGAIN! And should have beaten Indy today. That puts us at 7-3. We have lost those 4 games by 20 points. A 20 point swing could be the difference in our season. And where do those 20 points comes from? Turnovers! And that cannot be blamed on the coach.

Who says?If you are a QB guru and are teaching guys to manage games over a 3 year span, why does he get a pass?The NFL is full of what ifs..the Texans are just on the 7th year of it. Doesn't that get old?

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 08:13 PM
sadly, its not an excuse. its reality.

what would need to happen for you to realize that Gary is a poor head coach? what needs to happen? is there any scenario where you would finally come to terms with the idea that Gary just plain sucks?

would it take 3-13? worse? would it take 2 more years of bad football..or just one more...or God forbid, 3 more?

i guess what I am asking is what has Gary ever done to earn your loyalty and what HASN'T he done to make you question his ability as a head coach.

everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there has to be a line drawn at some point. you can't just go on the rest of your life blindly homering for the local football coach. there has to be limits and there has to be some breaking/boiling point.

gary should be fired for simply not firing Richard Smith this past offseason. it was common knowledge that the guy sucked yet we made no move to improve the situation. we also failed to identify areas of personnel improvement for our FO. Kris Jenkins should have been signed but we were too married to our worthless DTs...and YES THAT INCLUDES AMOBI. DUDE PLAIN SUCKS RIGHT ABOUT NOW. it sucks but its true.

Just fire the guy and get it over with. Bring in Marty and the rest of his family to assemble a coaching staff that isn't so damn pathetic. that would be a start. Marty is the perfect guy to come in and I think he would bring in someone who actually has a ball sack to coach the defense. isn't it funny how we just let Peyton sit back in the pocket game after game and own us? we dont do any movement or disguising and we are so damn passive it makes me sick.

screw kubiak
screw smith (richard)
screw sage
and if things dont change soon...
screw mcnair and his freaking loser texans

I can get on board with that. What if we can't get Marty, though? Should we give Mike Nolan a shot? How about Marvin Lewis, if he gets canned by the Bengals?

Firing Kubiak for the sake of firing Kubiak is kind of worthless, as long as there are bigger problems in existence on the team. If we can upgrade Kubiak, we should - and that goes for any position on the team or in the front office. JMO.

Specnatz
11-16-2008, 08:14 PM
Kubes doesn't get the "Bad before I got here" argument

Mangini
Sporano
Payton
Smith
Harbuagh

All of them turned their teams around quickly. Even Kiffin was making a good dent before he got canned

Oh so you are going to evaluate 3 coaches on a partial season. another who went 4 - 12 last year after going 10 -6 in '06.

The last, Payton, won the division in '06 and failed to have a winning record last year and his team is struggling this year. Where as they were picked to win their division last year and be one of the better teams this year.

I know we are in a what have you done for me lately but damn how about at least letting a coach have 2 years before you say he is the next great coach.

edo783
11-16-2008, 08:15 PM
We are on the verge of having an offense that can compete with anyone, well, if we had a QB that is. But the point I'm trying to make is we've made substantial improvement on the offensive side of the ball. If the DC is replaced with someone good, we are on our way. I want Kubiak to have another year or two with SOMEONE ELSE AT DC before we go sacking what could be a good thing.

That's pretty much how I would prefer to see it go down. It looks like we MAY have pretty much fixed the offense (still has some warts), but the defense is horrible and IMO the biggest issue there is Smith. Not the only issue by any stretch of the imagination, but the biggest one.

Ckw
11-16-2008, 08:17 PM
sadly, its not an excuse. its reality.

what would need to happen for you to realize that Gary is a poor head coach? what needs to happen? is there any scenario where you would finally come to terms with the idea that Gary just plain sucks?


Actually, I am already wondering that. I think he makes poor decisions with his challenges and clock management. I think he tries to get too creative sometimes instead of just playing traditional, hard-nosed football. Calling play-action pass on 1st and goal against the Ravens was about the dumbest coaching decision I have ever seen, especially given that Sage was playing QB.

Now the positives: I think he has turned this offense into a top tier offense, and we don't even have THE QB yet. Schaub could be that guy, but he doesn't stay healthy long enough to be THE guy. Also, his drafts, along with Smith, have been great other than Amobi. The reason why I credit Kubiak for that is he was the man behind the 2006 draft when we picked up Mario, DeMeco, Eric Winston, Owen Daniels, & David Anderson. And these are the guys that have put us into a position to at least compete.

So like eriadoc, I am unhappy with some of Kubiak's coaching decisions but am thrilled with many of his draft picks and what he has done with the offense. I just feel like if we just got our defense squared away we would be a team to contend with. I mean think about the holes on this defense: OLB, another DE, CB, S, and DT. That is basically every position needing work.

Here is a quick summary: Kubiak is a great offensive minded coach. It still remains to be seen what he can do with the defense. His mistakes with clock management and challenges can be improved with time, IMO. This is the first time the guy has been a HC. Dick Smith sucks and needs to go. Once we get rid of him, I believe we will truly be able to evaluate Kubiak. Until then, the jury is still out.

Ckw
11-16-2008, 08:20 PM
Who says?If you are a QB guru and are teaching guys to manage games over a 3 year span, why does he get a pass?The NFL is full of what ifs..the Texans are just on the 7th year of it. Doesn't that get old?

Of course it gets old. I am just as pissed as all of you. But it seems many of you have never played football. A coach can make you practice holding onto the ball until you're blue in the face but when gametime comes, it is up to the player to do what he has been trained to do. These guys are professionals. They know how to hold onto the ball. They know how to hit their receiver in stride. It just seems they aren't doing it, especially Sage.

Also, things wouldn't be as gloomy if our defense actually forced some turnovers. Once again, please if anyone in the Texans FO ever visits these boards, please fire Dick Smith.

HoustonFrog
11-16-2008, 08:25 PM
Of course it gets old. I am just as pissed as all of you. But it seems many of you have never played football. A coach can make you practice holding onto the ball until you're blue in the face but when gametime comes, it is up to the player to do what he has been trained to do. These guys are professionals. They know how to hold onto the ball. They know how to hit their receiver in stride. It just seems they aren't doing it, especially Sage.

Also, things wouldn't be as gloomy if our defense actually forced some turnovers. Once again, please if anyone in the Texans FO ever visits these boards, please fire Dick Smith.

I played football. And if I kept making the same mistakes turnover wise I wouldn't have been playing. It's concentration and reps. These guys obviously don't get it. I've said all along I'd give the guy another year but the thing is, why do people give him the benefit of the doubt for this stuff but seem to forget that he constantly over his time here has been sorry in time management, challenges, making quick decisions, etc?Here is my deal...if the people making excuses are blaming players and talent then that fallas on Smith and Kubes for hand picking the guys. If the talent is there and they aren't executing, that is the coaches. Kubes picked these assts. Somewhere in these equations the blame always comes back to him or Smith. Either you have the talent and they fail or someone didn't get the right players in.

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 08:28 PM
Of course it gets old. I am just as pissed as all of you. But it seems many of you have never played football. A coach can make you practice holding onto the ball until you're blue in the face but when gametime comes, it is up to the player to do what he has been trained to do. These guys are professionals. They know how to hold onto the ball. They know how to hit their receiver in stride. It just seems they aren't doing it, especially Sage.

Also, things wouldn't be as gloomy if our defense actually forced some turnovers. Once again, please if anyone in the Texans FO ever visits these boards, please fire Dick Smith.

That's really what it comes down to for me. If we were losing games because of the clock management or missed challenges, then that would mean we'd be a pretty damn good team. As it is, we're nowhere close to being good enough to lose because of Kubiak. The QB just continues to turn the ball over and no one here has come up with a specific, concrete change that Kubiak could make to change that. Sage threw the ball only 18 times today. THAT is taking the ball out of your QB's hands. But at the end of the game, in a two minute drill, you either put the ball back in your QB's hands or you lay down and quit. Sage killed us again.

Turnovers are what is killing this team and yet everyone wants to point at Kubiak. It's like having flat tires on your Chevelle and bitching about what a crappy manufacturer GM is. They might be, but it doesn't matter because you have flat tires.

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 08:29 PM
I played football. And if I kept making the same mistakes turnover wise I wouldn't have been playing.

And if it were Slaton making the turnovers, or Green, or Walter, or whoever else besides the QB, they wouldn't be playing. What is he going to do about Sage?

Second Honeymoon
11-16-2008, 08:31 PM
Of course it gets old. I am just as pissed as all of you. But it seems many of you have never played football. A coach can make you practice holding onto the ball until you're blue in the face but when gametime comes, it is up to the player to do what he has been trained to do. These guys are professionals. They know how to hold onto the ball. They know how to hit their receiver in stride. It just seems they aren't doing it, especially Sage.

Also, things wouldn't be as gloomy if our defense actually forced some turnovers. Once again, please if anyone in the Texans FO ever visits these boards, please fire Dick Smith.

played, coached, and am presently a ref in football
played, coached, and am presently an ump in baseball

though i dont want anyone to think i work at the pro level at either sport, i am just saying that during my time on this earth, I just can not see how anyone can overstate the importance of good coaching...ESPECIALLY at the pro level. It makes all the difference in the world and when was the last time a bad coach won anything of importance? kubiak is a bad coach.

good coaching hides your weaknesses and can find a way to win and be competitive with whatever he/she is given. there are lots of cliches but basically a good coach can get players to play for the jersey and not themselves. some coaches have that trait and some don't. it's clear that Kubiak does not possess that trait. personally, I dont need another year of this to see it for what it is....bad football.

even though I want the guy to go, I dont think Uncle Bob is going to do it. furthermore, i doubt he even gets fired if we finish 4-12. i don't see how any sane person could keep him around if we go 3-13 losing 9 in a row to end the season....but no one said Uncle Bob was sane....he is rich though. i guess a fool and his money soon departeth

threetoedpete
11-16-2008, 08:37 PM
Well they made three assumptions durring the offseason last year and none of them, not one, panned out.

1. Okoye would make a monumental leap and be a dominate force for them.
2. Aman Green would rebound and have a healthier season this year.
3. Reeves has a chance on being a front line CB with his speed.

What is so dis heartening to me at this point is even with three high picks next April, Kubiak may not play then until the '09 season is out of hand. He doesn't like Rookies.

The toss sweeps today did it for me. I love Kubiak. And I hate starting over. But this is simply insane. Making the same errors over and over again. We're like the crazy out house mouse running around in circles complaining about the smell.. It seems like we're perpetually starting over.

Runner
11-16-2008, 08:38 PM
And if it were Slaton making the turnovers, or Green, or Walter, or whoever else besides the QB, they wouldn't be playing. What is he going to do about Sage?

What can he do? He brought Sage in without an audition, told the existing back-ups Sage had the job, and sent them on their way. Kubiak put the Texans into this QB situation and hasn't prepared a decent third option.

Given Schaub's inability to stay on the field, I expect three QBs on the roster next year. I don't see how a team can carry two fullbacks or have so many bad players at other psoitions and not find a way to keep a third QB that is ready to play in relief if the back-up isn't performing.

I'm certainly no QB guru, but I'd certainly want to have an option behind Sage.

Second Honeymoon
11-16-2008, 08:42 PM
And if it were Slaton making the turnovers, or Green, or Walter, or whoever else besides the QB, they wouldn't be playing. What is he going to do about Sage?

Sage choked against the Colts...like that was a surprise?

I was surprised it took him to the 2minute mark to go into choke mode. Anywho, the defense lost this game. They can never stop a team when it counts. They just fail and fail and fail and so on and so on.

that defense was just so pathetic. no movement, no disgusing, no attacking, no blitzing, no gang tackling, no hitting, no nothing...just a bunch of losers wearing jerseys.

gjmac2
11-16-2008, 08:42 PM
I'm thinking it's an April draft Heeeaaavvvveeeyyyyy on defense. That and a new defensive coordinator.

Offense is fine. The Texans just can't stop anybody.

eriadoc
11-16-2008, 08:44 PM
What can he do? He brought Sage in without an audition, told the existing back-ups Sage had the job, and sent them on their way. Kubiak put the Texans into this QB situation and hasn't prepared a decent third option.

Given Schaub's inability to stay on the field, I expect three QBs on the roster next year. I don't see how a team can carry two fullbacks or have so many bad players at other psoitions and not find a way to keep a thrid QB that is ready to play in relief if the back-up isn't performing.

I'm certainly no QB guru, but I'd certainly want to have an option behind Sage.

I agree, but the 3rd option is going to be the third option for a reason. And for whatever reason, lots of coaches seem to do what you're saying about the way they handle their personnel. I see coaches do it all the time on other teams. I still don't understand why coaches make the personnel decisions they make in the NFL, but it doesn't seem like Kubiak is odd in his method - lots of them do it. Maybe it's an NFL mindset that we fans don't get; I don't know. I still haven't figured out why Pitts was moved from LT, or why Bennett didn't see the field earlier last year, or why Faggins is even on the field at all, or why Adibi hasn't even been in on ST much prior to the last couple games, or what Bentley has to do to see some significant playing time, etc., etc. But coaches do it on every team in the NFL. *shrug*

Second Honeymoon
11-16-2008, 08:44 PM
What can he do? He brought Sage in without an audition, told the existing back-ups Sage had the job, and sent them on their way. Kubiak put the Texans into this QB situation and hasn't prepared a decent third option.

Given Schaub's inability to stay on the field, I expect three QBs on the roster next year. I don't see how a team can carry two fullbacks or have so many bad players at other psoitions and not find a way to keep a third QB that is ready to play in relief if the back-up isn't performing.

I'm certainly no QB guru, but I'd certainly want to have an option behind Sage.

is Schaub going to be one of those 3? don't we have to guarantee that guy 20million to keep him around? that is a dubious proposition at best. the dude has been pretty damn solid when healthy but he can't stay on the field.

i doubt he'll renegotiate and we'll be left with an empty basket. maybe sign Matt Cassell (*sic* UFA this offseason)

...here we go again...

gwallaia
11-16-2008, 08:53 PM
Not sure when Schaub is going to be ready but if I am Kubiak, I realize this season is officially over and give Brink or whoever the chance to start until Schaub is ready to get back in.

Sage should be benched for the rest of the season and cut as soon as possible. He is worse than Carr ever was.

Wolf
11-16-2008, 09:09 PM
I bet our offense looks like the 2nd coming of "the greatest show on turf" in practice against our defense "

:doot:

all kidding aside

the only thing that makes me semi-happy is that the falcons lost and are 6-4 now oh and the dolphins are 6-4 also

meanwhile we are 3-7 :thud:

Vinny
11-16-2008, 09:10 PM
I bet our offense looks like the 2nd coming of "the greatest show on turf" in practice against our defense "

:doot:

all kidding aside

the only thing that makes me semi-happy is that the falcons lost and are 6-4 now oh and the dolphins are 6-4 also

meanwhile we are 3-7 :thud:
so, you are hoping other bad teams from last season flounder like us, and are unhappy with their turnarounds...the misery likes company happiness.

HoustonFrog
11-16-2008, 09:14 PM
And if it were Slaton making the turnovers, or Green, or Walter, or whoever else besides the QB, they wouldn't be playing. What is he going to do about Sage?

The team is losing..go to another option. Of course this team would never put its foot down. I would have been benched until my head was out of my ass. These guys are pros. My main point is if a guy is a QB guru and the QBs all turn out turnover prone then you either have made bad personnel moves or aren't coaching them right. Either way it comes back to the same people after so many years. This isn't too difficult to understand. A few times is an abberration....all the time is a trend.

I'm just amazed at the excuses. After the Texans spent 4 years wasting away behind one coaching staff and bad QB people said it wouldn't happen again and that they should learn their lesson. And here we are at crossroads again and people are content with the same just because the offense looks good. That is a loser mentality. As I said, i'd give him another year but that might be one too many.

Wolf
11-16-2008, 09:14 PM
so, you are hoping other bad teams from last season flounder like us, and are unhappy with their turnarounds...the misery likes company happiness.

no, I am more disappointed that we are aren't stepping up and those teams seem to getting better


I was thinking that those teams would be hovering around 3 wins and we sitting at about 5 or 6

TEXANRED
11-16-2008, 09:38 PM
It all begins and ends with defense. We are 10th in scoring offensively at 23 ppg. However we are 31st in the league at scoring giving up 28 ppg.

If we had a half way decent defense we would be at least .500 right now.

Richard Smith needs to go.

markn
11-16-2008, 09:39 PM
Who says?If you are a QB guru and are teaching guys to manage games over a 3 year span, why does he get a pass?

I think Kubiak was in a very awkward spot in his first year - it seemed that sticking with Carr was a condition of employment for Capers' successor. If that was indeed the case - and I have not heard any real denial - then he gets a pass on that first year in my book. When you factor in the great draft, the signs were positive.

Kubiak's second season was our best ever, and most fans were pretty optimistic that we had the right guy at the helm. Losing Dunta was devastating for an already weak secondary, the draft was only so-so and free agency another disaster, on top of that, we entered this season with a mighty tough looking schedule. Factor in the Ike effect and this year got off to a rotten start.

What has happened since then has been genuinely heart-breaking. A killer O/T loss, another injury to the fragile Schaub and the now routine Rosencopter meltdown has left us already looking for solace in next years draft.

I said to myself when the malaise started that no matter how bad things were, Kubiak had earned himself another chance, and nothing I've seen since then has changed my mind. Sure his play-calling and game management have left me scratching my head - but the west-coast passing game is still a cause for optimism. The running game is frustratingly inconsistent, but there are definite signs that it can be made to work and Slaton looks a star in the making. I genuinely believe that we're on the verge of becoming a dangerous offense.

Changing horses at the end of the season would undo the progress we've made on the offensive side of the ball, and a new man would want to stamp his own personality on things - setting us even further back.

This off-season needs to see us concentrate almost exclusively on defense. A shake-up among the coaching staff including a new DC and a strong D-oriented draft could make all the difference.

If Kubiak chooses not to make those defensive moves, then I'll change my opinion and will join the band-wagon calling for his removal, but I don't believe he will. Our deficiencies are clear for all to see, if Kubiak can't see them, then so long, and thanks for all the fish.

Second Honeymoon
11-16-2008, 09:47 PM
i don't feel changing after this year will do anything. the players can all play football and who of consequence would we have to give up if we changed schemes on either side? Myers? He sucks anyway. That's about it. Even Duane Brown could play in any system if given the proper tutelage and direction.

We need to become a more aggressive and attacking team..on both sides. and its starts up top. kubiak has been blundering too much to be kept around. you at least have to give Marty AND Cowher a call and see if either is interested. It may come out in the press, but who cares. Kubiak needs to know his arse is on the line because its getting old.

The1ApplePie
11-16-2008, 09:48 PM
Oh so you are going to evaluate 3 coaches on a partial season. another who went 4 - 12 last year after going 10 -6 in '06.

The last, Payton, won the division in '06 and failed to have a winning record last year and his team is struggling this year. Where as they were picked to win their division last year and be one of the better teams this year.

I know we are in a what have you done for me lately but damn how about at least letting a coach have 2 years before you say he is the next great coach.

The difference is that they changed the entire mentallity of the team. Kubiak seems no different from Capers IMO as far as a leader or innovator. He's stuck in the past when it comes to play calling and schemes.

TEXANRED
11-16-2008, 09:56 PM
The difference is that they changed the entire mentallity of the team. Kubiak seems no different from Capers IMO as far as a leader or innovator. He's stuck in the past when it comes to play calling and schemes.

There are several differences between Capers/Kubiak.

1. Kubiak can keep his mouth closed

2. We score more than 10 points per game.

3. Kubiak seems to still have control of his players. None of them have come out and said this organization needs a leader (ala Sharper and Glen).

Kubiak is better coach than Capers ever dreamed of.

That of course does not say a whole lot about Capers.

BigBull17
11-16-2008, 10:03 PM
Jeff Garcia and Kurt Warner are free agents after this season...:D

Id bring in Warner to groom a young guy. Maybe a 2 year deal

TexanSam
11-16-2008, 10:05 PM
Id bring in Warner to groom a young guy. Maybe a 2 year deal

I doubt Warner goes anywhere to be honest. The guy might be the MVP this year with the number's he's putting up in Arizona.

TEXANRED
11-16-2008, 10:07 PM
I doubt Warner goes anywhere to be honest. The guy might be the MVP this year with the number's he's putting up in Arizona.

Warner will retire a Card.

Now Garcia is intriguing.

Porky
11-16-2008, 10:09 PM
Ok, if the man does somthng insane to impress me over the rest of the season then I am open to change. But right now I feel like the whole coaching staff can't execute, and I want them gone, I want an agggresive coach who demands execution.

hmm?

Who would you like him to execute? Sage of the defense? :bat:

Wolf
11-16-2008, 10:12 PM
I understand some posters reasoning is that Kubiak is the HC and he is ultimately responsible. He has the Offense in the right direction. I feel we are good enough on the offensive side to hang with almost anyone (minus the TO's) and yes the microscope IS on the offense because they are needing to score points and have a habit of turning the ball over at the most horrible times..and it is magnified with the defense giving up 28.7 points a game

I do think that if we were told at the beginning of the season that this offense would be scoring 23.6 points a game, most on the board would be jumping for joy. (and it could be even more without the TO's)

TO's are fixable ..

however the defense is another story
we can't create turnovers .. 6 ints and 6 FF (hey the cowboys (not counting tonight have only 8 To's per NFL.com)

what is sad with the rest of the defense is that Mario has 3 of the FF and(8 of the 17 sacks this team has)

get this guy some help!

Like Herv (I believe said) ,If Kubiak doesn't get a DC in here,that will be his undoing .So to want him fired now, I don't see it unless he is too loyal to overhaul the defensive coaching.

Specnatz
11-16-2008, 10:13 PM
The difference is that they changed the entire mentallity of the team. Kubiak seems no different from Capers IMO as far as a leader or innovator. He's stuck in the past when it comes to play calling and schemes.

I know a lot of people hate Kubiak's pressers, and while I hate the taping of the podem he does a lot of BS 101. He is not like Jim Mora ... Playoffs Playoff .. we can't do diddly poo. Mike Ditka when Jim Harbough was his QB he used to blast that guy regularly. I do not want that type of coach because you can lose the team very quickly if you do it more than once.

The rams changed coaches and won two games in a row very quickly, since then it has been down hill. Yes a new coach can change the mentality of a team and serveral more wins can come from it but unless you continue to improve the quality of players the team will quickly revert back to what it was. Poor players who are not over achieving.

I think that is the case with New Orleans. With that said you can say the same thing with Houston, but that is why I say bring in a new DC, DLine, and DB coach along with new trainers. If the result is not improved then chnage the head coach.

Wolf
11-16-2008, 10:15 PM
There are several differences between Capers/Kubiak.

1. Kubiak can keep his mouth closed

2. We score more than 10 points per game.

3. Kubiak seems to still have control of his players. None of them have come out and said this organization needs a leader (ala Sharper and Glen).

Kubiak is better coach than Capers ever dreamed of.

That of course does not say a whole lot about Capers.


and early on Capes had a defense that had to babysit the offense (understandably being more veterans were on defense and the offense with Sunshine err (HWDNSO) running it... and now the offense is having to try to babysit this defense (and I admit the offense with key TO's put the defense in a bad spot)

The1ApplePie
11-16-2008, 10:40 PM
I know a lot of people hate Kubiak's pressers, and while I hate the taping of the podem he does a lot of BS 101. He is not like Jim Mora ... Playoffs Playoff .. we can't do diddly poo. Mike Ditka when Jim Harbough was his QB he used to blast that guy regularly. I do not want that type of coach because you can lose the team very quickly if you do it more than once.

The rams changed coaches and won two games in a row very quickly, since then it has been down hill. Yes a new coach can change the mentality of a team and serveral more wins can come from it but unless you continue to improve the quality of players the team will quickly revert back to what it was. Poor players who are not over achieving.

I think that is the case with New Orleans. With that said you can say the same thing with Houston, but that is why I say bring in a new DC, DLine, and DB coach along with new trainers. If the result is not improved then chnage the head coach.

One thing I liked about all the new coaches is they brought something innovative and fresh to the table. Sometimes it failed (Kiffin), other times it can turn a franchise around.

With his personel and systems, Kubiak seems to be mired in 1998 or so with the Denver Broncos. It was good stuff then but its not really a compeditive form of football anymore. Smith's defense is an obvious dinosaur that is getting ripped apoart as well.

TEXANRED
11-16-2008, 10:42 PM
One thing I liked about all the new coaches is they brought something innovative and fresh to the table. Sometimes it failed (Kiffin), other times it can turn a franchise around.

With his personel and systems, Kubiak seems to be mired in 1998 or so with the Denver Broncos. It was good stuff then but its not really a compeditive form of football anymore. Smith's defense is an obvious dinosaur that is getting ripped apoart as well.

The offense is working. We are ranked 5th.

Its the defense that is softer than melted butter that is the problem.

utahmark
11-16-2008, 11:50 PM
ive been trying to decide what i want done with our staff. i think i want to give kubiak another year. you cant win with our defense and that quarter back. no coach could. now i know that this is his qb and his defensive coordinator. he made a couple of mistakes. now lets give him a chance and see if he fixes those mistakes.

im sure some of those big time coache's you guys want here have made the same types of mistakes early in their career and someone somewhere gave them a chance to correct them. lets see if kube's can do the same.

i think he's shown he can take care of our offense. he's already fixed half the problem. if our guys can get together and find a defensive coordinator who can get our defense going then next year we could be good, real good. if we get someone new here and start all over who know's what might happen. maybe were good or maybe were set back another 3 or 4 years. i cant take another 3 or 4 years. not of this crap.

so if we just look at this like a poker hand. i think we have a better chance of winning next year with kubes than we do with someone else. and im ready to win next year. if not then oh well its just another year of losing. if your on this board its not like you havent been through that before. and i will be all for getting rid of him midseason next year if its not looking good. not this year though.

Norg
11-16-2008, 11:54 PM
I like Kubes

Kubes wants to win hes no slouch

and firing him during the season will do us no GOod no good at all infact it will worsen our chance to win Ball games and thats not smart IMO

lets just see how the season pans out and go from there

Drew_Smoke
11-17-2008, 04:39 PM
First 3 Years...

Chuck Noll... 1-13, 5-9, 6-8

Tom Landry... 0-11-1, 4-9-1, 5-8-1

Bill Walsh... 2-14, 3-13, 13-3

Bill Bellichick...6-10, 7-9, 7-9

Bill Cowher... 11-5, 9-7, 12-4

Bum Phillips... 10-4, 5-9, 8-6

Dick Vermiel... 4-10, 5-9, 9-7
__________________

Second Honeymoon
11-17-2008, 06:24 PM
First 3 Years...

Chuck Noll... 1-13, 5-9, 6-8

Tom Landry... 0-11-1, 4-9-1, 5-8-1

Bill Walsh... 2-14, 3-13, 13-3

Bill Bellichick...6-10, 7-9, 7-9

Bill Cowher... 11-5, 9-7, 12-4

Bum Phillips... 10-4, 5-9, 8-6

Dick Vermiel... 4-10, 5-9, 9-7
__________________

....so what's your point? are you comparing Kubiak to all-time greats like Cowher, Walsh, and Landry?

the league was a lot different back in the day. it took a lot more time to turn things around due to the diminished role Free Agency played and signing bonuses and salary cap.

Kubiak has done a good job helping the offense become respectable but he has done a pitiful job in just about every other facet. We could find a good offensive coordinator to turn the offense around, we needed Kubiak to be a head coach. We can't afford to wait around 4 or 5 years for training on the job.

It's obvious that barring a 3-13 season, Kubiak will be back as Head Coach. It's almost a foregone conclusion. My thing is that he needs to fire his defensive coordinator and get rid of some of the losers on teh team (weaver, greenwood, faggins, etc) and he needs to show some more fire and instill a LOT more urgency onto his team. If he can't do that, he needs to be fired. If he can do it, then he needs to turn things around in 2009 or be fired.

atxlaurie
11-17-2008, 06:53 PM
We should have beaten Indy @ home. We should have been Jac but lost on a OT field goal. We could have beaten the Vikings but looked terrible in the 2nd half, AGAIN! And should have beaten Indy today. That puts us at 7-3. We have lost those 4 games by 20 points. A 20 point swing could be the difference in our season. And where do those 20 points comes from? Turnovers! And that cannot be blamed on the coach.

I totally agree. And we need a QB.

Silver Oak
11-17-2008, 06:58 PM
....so what's your point? are you comparing Kubiak to all-time greats like Cowher, Walsh, and Landry?



I believe he was just pointing out that even the great coaches started slowly in their careers.

Drew_Smoke
11-17-2008, 07:50 PM
I believe he was just pointing out that even the great coaches started slowly in their careers.


Ding...Ding....

Thanks for helping me out there.

My view is if the Texans dump Kubes my bet is he will do well somewhere,

GlassHalfFull
11-17-2008, 07:52 PM
Ding...Ding....

Thanks for helping me out there.

My view is if the Texans dump Kubes my bet is he will do well somewhere,

I agree 100%. I think Kubiak is going to turnout to be a strong head coach. I would hate to give up on him too early, when he really doesn't have the proper tools to get the job done, and see him succeed somewhere else.

stingray
11-17-2008, 07:58 PM
I agree 100%. I think Kubiak is going to turnout to be a strong head coach. I would hate to give up on him too early, when he really doesn't have the proper tools to get the job done, and see him succeed somewhere else.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until they get a better DC...

Thorn
11-17-2008, 08:02 PM
I agree 100%. I think Kubiak is going to turnout to be a strong head coach. I would hate to give up on him too early, when he really doesn't have the proper tools to get the job done, and see him succeed somewhere else.


I'm with you on this! I think, even with our current personel, that a good DC would have the defense playing better. Mind you, not to the level the offense is playing, but a good DC wouldn't have our defense at 30th in the league.

Runner
11-17-2008, 08:05 PM
I don't want Kubiak fired. I think he'll be back next year even if they lose out or close to it.

I think he'll be fired after next year though.

eriadoc
11-17-2008, 08:06 PM
Ding...Ding....

Thanks for helping me out there.

My view is if the Texans dump Kubes my bet is he will do well somewhere,

It's possible. Belichick didn't look so good in Cleveland. Siefert looked good when he had good players, but went 1-15 in Carolina. Plenty of assistants have looked good when they had good players, only to fail when they go elsewhere. Hell, even Cowher had a 1-15 record one year, didn't he? It's a short list of coaches that have done well every place they've gone.

Drew_Smoke
11-17-2008, 09:59 PM
It's possible. Belichick didn't look so good in Cleveland. Siefert looked good when he had good players, but went 1-15 in Carolina. Plenty of assistants have looked good when they had good players, only to fail when they go elsewhere. Hell, even Cowher had a 1-15 record one year, didn't he? It's a short list of coaches that have done well every place they've gone.


Cowher's worst year...2003...6-10 He did go 15-1 in 2004 to make up for it

The almighty Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 once upon a time. Then 7-9 & 11-5.

Your point about Seifert is a good one. It is a short list of coaches who win at each stop, too.

Runner
11-17-2008, 10:05 PM
First 3 Years...

Chuck Noll... 1-13, 5-9, 6-8

Tom Landry... 0-11-1, 4-9-1, 5-8-1

Bill Walsh... 2-14, 3-13, 13-3

Bill Bellichick...6-10, 7-9, 7-9

Bill Cowher... 11-5, 9-7, 12-4

Bum Phillips... 10-4, 5-9, 8-6

Dick Vermiel... 4-10, 5-9, 9-7
__________________


So these green eyed Martians have blue noses. Do all blue nosed Martians have green eyes?

...or...

Does struggling with medicority at the start of a coaching career guarantee a Hall of Fame coaching career? If so, I'm glad Kubiak tanked to start his career. He can start winning now though - he has laid the foundation.

ObsiWan
11-17-2008, 10:36 PM
Cowher's worst year...2003...6-10 He did go 15-1 in 2004 to make up for it

The almighty Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 once upon a time. Then 7-9 & 11-5.

Your point about Seifert is a good one. It is a short list of coaches who win at each stop, too.

I hate the Cowher reference because Cowher inherited proven studs like Rod Woodson, Hardy Nickerson, Greg Lloyd, Carnell Lake, Barry Foster, and Dermontti Dawson. It didn't hurt that the Steelers got Levon Kirkland, Darren Perry, and OT Leon Searcy in his first draft in '92.

Another point is that the Steelers HAD a team identity - Strong defense and solid running game. All Cowher had to do is bring some fresh energy and rebuild that old Steeler smash mouth mentality.


Whoever comes here will have to establish a defensive identity and BUILD a solid defense from the confused mess that exists here now.


I'm hoping the Bears will get stupid and fire Lovie Smith and he comes here to run our defense.
Marty wouldn't be bad either. At least we'd make the playoffs.