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View Full Version : Rookie Manning vs. Forty something Vinny


nunusguy
01-02-2005, 08:09 PM
OK Cowboy fans, in this meaningless ESPN game tonight, how come the
genius Parcells(?) is playing the old gezzer Vinny instead of the youngster
and future like the Giants are ?

ledzeppelin229
01-02-2005, 11:31 PM
The Giants last second touchdown earned me some money

Me and 3 friends put out 5 bucks each on Texans, Raiders, Cowboys, Bears for best record at the end of the season

Since Houston botched the game today, I needed a Cowboy loss

Go Tiki

WWJD
01-03-2005, 07:44 AM
OK Cowboy fans, in this meaningless ESPN game tonight, how come the
genius Parcells(?) is playing the old gezzer Vinny instead of the youngster
and future like the Giants are ?


Because Bill is stupidly stubborn when it comes to Vinny.

edo783
01-03-2005, 08:15 AM
Vinny's about as old as me (geez, I'm a geezer now). Hard to believe & heck of a feat to be a starting QB at this old age.


I have been a Geezzer for a long time. Ya get used to it Vinny. :shocked

Chawky1
01-03-2005, 08:56 AM
Because Bill is stupidly stubborn when it comes to Vinny.

EXACTLY...this is beyond foolish, he needs to get the young guys in there and get them some playing time. But, if you are one of HIS guys, then you play, even if it flies in the face of logic.

WWJD
01-03-2005, 09:20 AM
I will never understand not letting Henson play some during games that are meaningless. It's been obvious for a long time that the Cowboys need to develop a young QB and they did nothing. I think Bill has done a poor coaching job this year.

Chawky1
01-03-2005, 09:34 AM
Without a doubt, you are correct. He clearly has his own way of doing things, and is pretty much untouchable, even to Jerry Jones. The tuna just has this aura that his football choices come straight from the football gods and don't question what he chooses to do. Don't worry, they will pay for it next year.... congrats on your 1,000th post btw.

WWJD
01-03-2005, 10:08 AM
Geez I didn't even notice the # of posts...I'm secretly hoping that Bill decides it's time to retire and let somebody else come in and just start over. I'd really rather they did that again than sit thru another year of Bill and Vinny.

Since you're a Seahawk fan how about Alexander being 1 yard short of the rushing title? The Hawks sure has alot of pretty good players unsigned. So what do they do? Franchise Alexander? Or the QB?

Chawky1
01-03-2005, 10:27 AM
OUCH ...this is really touchy. I have been reading a lot of the posts on my fav Seahawks fan site...and it is like a civil war over there. This whole situation is a mess, and I think it will affect the team as well. Shaun is really pissed, I think he coasts through the playoffs to stay healthy for potential free agency and we lose this upcoming weekend.

As for the Alexander situation with the rushing title, I sort of feel sorry for him, but he had many other games this year to pick up more yards, and also a number of carries for losses in the last game as well. Shaun only runs hard when he feels like running hard...he tends to go down to avoid contact, rather than pounding out an extra yard or too. And though he is a rather quiet guy, he LOVES the limelight and is highly ego driven. Wisely, he does not come off as a Meshawn Johnson type, but he is along those lines. Watch him this coming weekend, after each carry he lays on the ground until someone comes to pick him up. Heck, I have seen refs help lift him up. He has also stated in the past that he longs to play for a bigger market team such as Miami, Cali/NY teams, or any other bigger east coast market. Though he is a talent, his line has had as much to do with his production as his god given talent. We will see what kind of line he ends up behind next year, if not the Hawks.

We will be rebuilding next year, in addition to the Hass, Alexander, and Jones issue...we have like 6 or 7 other starters not under contract. There are many many holes to fill, we knew this was to be our year or bust. Coaching, play calling, and injuries have dropped us to a marginal playoff team. Wistrom cost us a lot of money and cap space, chad brown is just about toast, Ken Lucas wants a fat payday as does Chike Okeafor. We are really screwed. I'd almost say let Jones and Alexander go based strictly on how much money they will want, Hass was up and down and will come cheaper. A lot has to do on whether or not Holmgren stays. If Holmie is there Shaun will surely want to go, and Holmy will keep his golden boy HAss, for better or worse. This offseason I think they will drop the tag off Jones and let him test the market. His is getting older and wants to be paid as the #1 O-lineman in the league, and won't budge. Rb's are pretty much a dime a dozen so I think they will probably let Shaun walk. You know, its hard to pick because it depends on if Holmgren is still there, and who would be the cheapest to pay when its comes down to the idea of paying an average of the top five at their position. Maybe it will be who makes the least....the average top 5 RB, LT, or QB. It's a tough one, and we will be a mess next year.

Just for giggles, watch Shaun this weekend. He is a BIG dude, and should plow LB's and DB's with ease, but he goes down to arm tackels. He is really an enigma, and our winning will be based solely on his motivation. If Shaun wants to play, then we can win, if he doesn't we will get creamed. I am leaning towards him packing it in and sliding as opposed to the possibility of injury before free agency. Conversely, this is a nationally televised playoff game, a place for him to showcase his talents, and he plays harder for a national TV audience. I can only hope it is the latter.

WWJD
01-03-2005, 10:43 AM
I think the Seahawks will win this weekend. I am not that impressed with the Rams really and you just know their coach will screw something up.

As for Alexander..I watched the whole 4th quarter and wasn't channel surfing and on some of his last runs he lost yards so if he hadn't done that he would have won the rushing title by a few yards. It's amazing that it was that close!
I've heard he was all about me, me, me but I give the guy props because he runs hard and he really makes their offense go.

And I think the Hawks have one of the coolest stadiums I've ever seen. That's been discussed on here before but I love the way it is configured. It looks so fan friendly.

I bet Holmgren comes back next year. I have read that he may want to go back to SF eventually but who knows if that is true or not.

Chawky1
01-03-2005, 10:58 AM
I really hope we win....I think we match up MUCH better against the Eagles or the Falcons. In fact, IF we can beat the Rams, I can see us limping into the NFC championship game. Mad Mike Martz can be counted on for some boneheaded calls, but he has LOTS of weapons. I'm praying for ran or snow to slow down their passing game. If we do win though, we are set for later games in the playoffs.

As for Shaun, he ran pretty hard most of the game, which I link to him wanting the rushing title. He ALWAYS runs hard inside the redzone. If he knows there is a shot to up his TD total, he bowls over guys and drags them into the endzone. If we are at midfield though, he will not take a big hit to gain an extra yard or two for the first. He is not a team guy at all, won't give it all up for the team the way that someone like DD would for you guys. He is just really flighty. There is no doubt he is a tremendous talent, in a big bruising body for a RB, but he does not play hard every down which drives Seahawks fans nuts.

I just hope he comes to play this weekend.

WWJD
01-03-2005, 11:21 AM
Seahawks 24

Rams 14

Chawky1
01-03-2005, 11:33 AM
Can I hold you to that :rofl:

Is that like one of those lock of the week things.

Seriously, if we survive this game we can go deep. I don't believe we have ever lost to a Mike Vick led Falcons team and the Eagles won't win their first playoff game regardless of who they play.

Go Seahawks!

WWJD
01-03-2005, 11:35 AM
No just a guess on my part. I think the Seahawks have the better team!

Huge
01-03-2005, 11:39 AM
In the end, I'm ecstatic. If you've seen the Pepsi commercial where the guy gets his hands caught in the ceiling, that's me after Mangum's kick went through (even after getting tipped).

What WWJD said. Parcells would rather prove a point (he has control over the team) and lose than build towards the future and prove everybody else right.

Vinny (not the poster) should've been riding the bench the last 4 weeks.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
01-03-2005, 03:05 PM
You guys heard the ESPN commentators, they were all preaching about Vinny. He looked great last night. Yeah, he is 41 but thats what all you guys care about. Who cares? He doesn't play like one. I would love to see him start in 2005. He was 23 for 30 with 231 yards and a rating of 109.2 against the Giants last night.

I would agree that Vinny has been worn out. But werent we in the top 5 in the NFL in passing while we had Glenn? Dont you think that it would have complimented JJ and Vinny to have a passing and running threat?
When glenn was healthy he was lighting up every defense

Hey, sure Testaverde has been reckless throwing at times, but I'll guarantee you neither Romo or Henson would have thrown for 3,000 yards - especially early in the season without a running game, and then for a time, with only one legitimate wide receiver.

Do you see any comparison between Troy Aikman's 1999 season and Vinny's this year? This is because I remember Troy having a 99.5 quarterback rating when he had Michael Irvin, Rocket Ismail and Ernie Mills (not to mention a 1,300-yard running back). Then, Irvin and Mills were out and Patrick Jeffers, Jeff Ogden and Deion Sanders (yes, the cornerback!) started playing wideout along with Ismail. We all know the end of the story. With Terry Glenn out, Dan Campbell out and no running game for nearly nine weeks, I think Vinny had one hand tied behind his back. I'd like to know your opinion.

He's been a consummate team player, and he has taken the hits for mistakes of others, just allowing people like you to assume all those interceptions were on him. But then, now you know how a "professional" quarterback acts. Yes, he has taken a few too many chances down the field, but how do you know the head coach hasn't told him to press the issue, knowing his defense hadn't been playing very well? Parcells' and Jones' thinking is this: If the Cowboys surround Testaverde with a complete offensive cast, then maybe he can buy them enough time to get their young quarterbacks ready to take over.

Huge
01-03-2005, 03:25 PM
23 of 30 while only averaging 10 yards per completion? Not impressed. It's not hard to complete a high percentage when you're throwing short passes. It's also not a very effective passing game.

Consider this:
Peyton Manning - 497 attempts, 4,557 yards
Vinny - 495 attempts, 3,532 yards

See my point?

If Vinny is the starting QB next year, I may have to put a contract out on Parcells.

WWJD
01-03-2005, 03:37 PM
I think Vinny is a class guy, a great team player and I have no problem with him coming back as a backup.

But this team MUST develop a young QB. Whether it be Henson, Romo , FA pickup or drafting one they MUST.

If not they are just asking for more losing seasons. You have to take your lumps with the young guys but if they work out you've got a player hopefully for a long time.

Vinny doesn't give them that; he's not going to take them to the playoffs and I do not, will not ever understand why Parcells didn't play Henson or Romo last night. Makes no sense to me and therefore I have to question Parcells.

Even Jerry who I do not consider to be much of a "football" guy with all his misses these last few years has made overtones that he wanted to see Henson play. Although he has come out recently echoing that he is a Vinny guy too.

I'm just a fan and my opinion is not educated other than being a longtime fan but to me it's obvious the Cowboys have botched their QB situation. Vinny is not the answer. Vinny has thrown a ton of interceptions this year and many of them in the red zone. NO MORE VINNY!

HowBoutThemCowboys!
01-03-2005, 04:08 PM
23 of 30 while only averaging 10 yards per completion? Not impressed. It's not hard to complete a high percentage when you're throwing short passes. It's also not a very effective passing game.

Consider this:
Peyton Manning - 497 attempts, 4,557 yards
Vinny - 495 attempts, 3,532 yards

See my point?

If Vinny is the starting QB next year, I may have to put a contract out on Parcells.

I see your point comparing Peyton and Vinny but look at the tools Vinny's had this season. Not much. Glenn gone with injury and Antonio Bryant gone because of fight with Tuna. This leaves the Cowboy's with 2 blind rookies and an inexireinced Quincy Morgan who still needs to learn Dallas's offense. Dallas does has 1 reliable wide receiver which is Keyshawn Johnson but unforteuntly teams love to double team him making Vinny have problems connecting with him. That leaves us with our trusty tight end Jason Witten who does focuses on short routes like every tight end in the league. Since Witten has received the ball more than any other Cowboy I'm not suprised we average 10 yards per completion.

That being said I don't think it's a fair assesment of comparing Testaverde to someone who has passing threats like Brandon Stokley and Marvin Harrison who's helped him break Marino's record of single season passing touchdowns.

What we can compare is David Carr and Vinny. David Carr has pro bowler Andre Johnson, Bradford, Miller, and Gaffney. Yet, Carr has just 7 more yards of passing than Vinny. Not bad.

I think Vinny is a class guy, a great team player and I have no problem with him coming back as a backup.

But this team MUST develop a young QB. Whether it be Henson, Romo , FA pickup or drafting one they MUST.

If not they are just asking for more losing seasons. You have to take your lumps with the young guys but if they work out you've got a player hopefully for a long time.

Vinny doesn't give them that; he's not going to take them to the playoffs and I do not, will not ever understand why Parcells didn't play Henson or Romo last night. Makes no sense to me and therefore I have to question Parcells.

Even Jerry who I do not consider to be much of a "football" guy with all his misses these last few years has made overtones that he wanted to see Henson play. Although he has come out recently echoing that he is a Vinny guy too.

I'm just a fan and my opinion is not educated other than being a longtime fan but to me it's obvious the Cowboys have botched their QB situation. Vinny is not the answer. Vinny has thrown a ton of interceptions this year and many of them in the red zone. NO MORE VINNY!

I see your point but why rush things? It seems everybody has a mindset that Vinny is 41 and he needs to go. If he was 30 ALOT more people would agree with Parcells and I to start Vinny next year. We can both agree with that. The thing is he's 41 and not many other QBs have ventured into the 40s. Which makes people think Vinny's a goner. Vinny did have a 6-10 season with Dallas but in my opinion it's because of the insufficient cast around him like a dead defense, dead right o-line, and dead receiving core. Give Vinny another chance next season with a better supporting cast and forget that he's 41 and watch him play. I can see playoffs with all of that.

TheOgre
01-03-2005, 04:08 PM
If Vinny is the starting QB next year, I may have to put a contract out on Parcells.

If that happens, I want Jerry to sign him to an extension. 1989 is still my favorite Cowboy's season.

Huge
01-03-2005, 04:53 PM
I see your point comparing Peyton and Vinny but look at the tools Vinny's had this season. Not much. Glenn gone with injury and Antonio Bryant gone because of fight with Tuna. This leaves the Cowboy's with 2 blind rookies and an inexireinced Quincy Morgan who still needs to learn Dallas's offense. Dallas does has 1 reliable wide receiver which is Keyshawn Johnson but unforteuntly teams love to double team him making Vinny have problems connecting with him. That leaves us with our trusty tight end Jason Witten who does focuses on short routes like every tight end in the league. Since Witten has received the ball more than any other Cowboy I'm not suprised we average 10 yards per completion.

That being said I don't think it's a fair assesment of comparing Testaverde to someone who has passing threats like Brandon Stokley and Marvin Harrison who's helped him break Marino's record of single season passing touchdowns.

What we can compare is David Carr and Vinny. David Carr has pro bowler Andre Johnson, Bradford, Miller, and Gaffney. Yet, Carr has just 7 more yards of passing than Vinny. Not bad.

Only David Carr just finished his 3rd season and has an upside. Where is Vinny's upside? You shouldn't have to compare the stats of a 3rd year QB playing on a 3rd year expansion team to that of a 18 year veteran. If Henson goes out and throws 17 TDs/20 INTs, that's okay, because you expect improvement the following season. You really think Vinny has room for improvement?

And even though Carr finished with "just 7 more yards passing" than Vinny, he did so with 29 fewer attempts. Not exactly a strong argument for Vinny's case.

The comparison of Manning and Vinny was just to show just how lopsided a great year is compared to Vinny's.

I see your point but why rush things? It seems everybody has a mindset that Vinny is 41 and he needs to go. If he was 30 ALOT more people would agree with Parcells and I to start Vinny next year. We can both agree with that. The thing is he's 41 and not many other QBs have ventured into the 40s. Which makes people think Vinny's a goner. Vinny did have a 6-10 season with Dallas but in my opinion it's because of the insufficient cast around him like a dead defense, dead right o-line, and dead receiving core. Give Vinny another chance next season with a better supporting cast and forget that he's 41 and watch him play. I can see playoffs with all of that.

The problem is, the team is not ready to compete for the playoffs. And by the time they are, Vinny will not be the QB that leads them there. So it makes no sense to have him take away snaps from the QBs that might be there when the team is ready to compete.

I don't care about his age. It's his ability that concerns me. It's not like a 17 TD/20 INT season is an abnormality. The guy has only had 7 of his 18 years with more TDs than INTs.

nunusguy
01-03-2005, 06:20 PM
I really hope we win....I think we match up MUCH better against the Eagles or the Falcons.
Hey Chawky1, I'm glad to see that there is atleast one football fan in the Great Northwest. I worked up that way (actually the state cap @ Olympia)
5 years ago and while its some of the most beautiful R/E in our wonderful country, people up there really don't get very excited about football. When
football season rolls around here in Texas, people start getting that glint in thier eye but up there it's no big deal.

Chawky1
01-04-2005, 06:47 AM
Hey Chawky1, I'm glad to see that there is atleast one football fan in the Great Northwest. I worked up that way (actually the state cap @ Olympia)
5 years ago and while its some of the most beautiful R/E in our wonderful country, people up there really don't get very excited about football. When
football season rolls around here in Texas, people start getting that glint in thier eye but up there it's no big deal.

Technically I'm a Seahawks fan up in the great Northeast. I live in PA, but have always been a Seahawks fan! I am planning to make a trip out there next year though, to see a game where I finally am not the visiting fan.